Final Fantasy Wiki
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/Archive 1

On spoilers[]

This whole discussion started when I became concerned that any information we have on characters that are released in one region well ahead of another may be spoiler content. What I was looking for there was some kind of disclaimer that the content may not be available in certain regions as yet and is subject to change at any time. And I figured anything in that case would be a spoiler where it's not out yet. Some have called it flat out censorship, but I don't think that's the case. Live content is its own animal, and needs to be dealt with just slightly differently than, say, an upcoming title. We don't really have a specific policy for live content, so the closest thing we have is a policy regarding upcoming games, which makes no mention of the spoiler policy. Can anything be done to make more editors aware of the policies we already have?

In the case of the demo that was just published, I would think all parties involved would be able to determine what is and is not safe for outside sources to publish. But here, We also have this weird case where most of the folks on here already know the original game and can kind of figure out how that plot will go. Going forward, I think it will be important to give the player as much information as is needed to form an opinion of something without necessarily spoiling the whole blasted thing altogether. Something like giving a man a fish versus teaching him to fish. Trouble is, not all editors will use proper discretion in writing. I know that, and so do you. I'm not saying we shouldn't cover it, only that if it's a clear spoiler, then it should be packaged as such. Do you understand where I'm getting at here? Your thoughts would be most appreciated. Swordzmanp236 (talk) 01:00, March 4, 2020 (UTC)

Gameplay content that is released in one region but not yet another is not a spoiler. The spoiler policy is designed for story content. You keep trying to jam this square peg into a round hole and keep ignoring us when we try to explain why you should not be doing that. The spoiler policy does not and will not cover what to do about regional differences because that topic does not intersect with the intended scope of the policy. The correct thing to do in this case is to denote in some manner that the content is currently only available in certain regions. If there ends up being a regional difference in the content, that should be noted as well. I don't believe there is a specific policy for this because "Try to be as accurate and complete as possible" is not really a thing that the we have considered to need an actual policy, because it should be self evident.
As for FFVIIR, all the story content is to be spoiler tagged regardless of if it was in the original FFVII or not, because we spoiler tag the story of all the works we cover regardless of age or how familiar the editors will be with it. So yes, spoilers will be clearly marked where possible because that is already the policy.
My actual question that has somehow turned into this diversion on a completely different page to where the conversation is, was if we were failing to enforce the policy somewhere. You finally answered someone else by pointing out mobile issues. I asked around and the answer there is that the mobile skin does not display most old templates properly, but is due to be replaced soon with one that should work with this kind of thing. From my own testing I found that sections on the mobile skin are pre-collapsed anyway, which conveniently means the spoiler sections of pages are typically collapsed in a way that the spoiler templates can do anyway. For the visibility of the warnings, we'll just have to wait a while.
Now, were there any further ways in which we are failing to enforce the spoiler policy? -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 07:41, March 4, 2020 (UTC)
I suppose the question is this: pick any two articles on the same subject in the same game, and assume that they contain at least one plot point in common; why should one have spoiler tags, while the other does not? So, either the current policy must apply universally, or we go a route suggested by Techno and ditch the whole bleedin' mess altogether (implying that just about everything written here is a spoiler in its own right). To that, I say come on, there's got to be a middle ground somewhere.
Detail is King and nothing is sacred in this accursed age. How are we supposed to manage that? Swordzmanp236 (talk) 08:41, March 4, 2020 (UTC)
Then, assuming we keep the course and don't follow Techno's idea, then both should be tagged. The only place where it's plausible that something could be tagged in one place and untagged in another is if the context changes to one where it's not a spoiler (i.e, an article about X-2 talking about the ending of X), but they will still likely both be tagged in these instances anyway.
Is this an actual problem or a hypothetical? -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 08:55, March 4, 2020 (UTC)
Hypothetical, for the most part. Do you think anybody really has time to search through almost 40,000 pages for plot similarities? Of course not! I don't have any doubts that it exists as a problem, however. That's why I think we need to prevent that kind of thing going forward. Swordzmanp236 (talk) 09:23, March 4, 2020 (UTC)
Well, when there are explicit examples of the problem, they should be fixed. Preventing new examples of a problem are forming is what RecentChanges is for. Cat (meowhunt) 09:28, March 4, 2020 (UTC)
I expect almost all of our guidelines have been accidentally broken somewhere. We will fix problems as they are encountered, as we always have. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 09:45, March 4, 2020 (UTC)

Breaking Wikipedia links[]

I can't remember if it started not too long after we subst-ed {{W}}, or the issue was highlighted because we subst-d {{W}}. It's been happening for years, and it's the Visual Editor. JBed (talk) 19:28, March 5, 2020 (UTC)

Huh, right. I remember there having been a problem, it just hadn't shown up for me for a long while so I thought the older problem may have been fixed. Welp. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 20:18, March 5, 2020 (UTC)

Catching leftover Bravely bits[]

I don't plan to do this as an ongoing project, but here goes. I have to pick up the deletion logs first, and then paste them here. I have no idea how far these things go back. That one tag caused a cascade of about 45 actions. I don't think we are meant to flood discord with all that stuff, but I'll do the best I can. Thanks again for following up. Swordzmanp236 (talk) 21:30, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Log data follows

(Removing this log because it's too long and was breaking syntax highlighting in the editor. I know how to access the delete log, and I will get to this once I am not in the middle of dealing with a bunch of personal crap. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 01:47, 18 August 2021 (UTC))

Was it okay for me to delete the Bravely things manually? Job for bot only?Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 16:04, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
They were incorrectly marked for deletion because somebody didn't check if the pages were correctly copied over. Not your fault, and I can fix it myself, I just need to undelete, export them all, and delete again. Probably not a bot job as I don't think it can use Special:Export. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 00:40, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Adding Images[]

This is kyle11067. I am sorry about the problem with editing images. I will leave them alone for now, and I will probably not try to position the images as I have trouble with them. I may add images occasionally, and when that happens, I will try to leave the positioning for you to handle.

You don't need to stop because you make a mistake. If you're having a hard time getting the positioning right, use the button in the top right corner of the editor to switch to source, you may get finer control of where to position the image. If you take a look at the pages we fixed, you can see that the image code is placed just before the paragraph we want it to appear to the left of. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 01:47, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

RE: LR[]

Sorry didn't initially see your message. The reason I wanted to edit them was because I was the one who told anonymous to use "cactair" to fix the formating, and then you yelled at them for it. You were barking at the wrong tree! I needed to take accountability for the edits they made under my advise.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 13:28, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

About etymology[]

Hi. I am sorry. I am an Asperger, that is very bad at social relationships. I did not mean to snark at anybody. I was afraid to be considered pedantic, and I thought that commented-out line was funny. I thought editors would read it, smile, and think: "ok, he is not a pedantic, we can have a civilized discussion with him".

I hope you accept my apology. Can we have a dialogue about what etymologies are? ---Abacos (talk) 09:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

The thing is, the wiki is using the word "etymology" in a fairly standard sense, at least to my understanding. Etymology is the study of the origin of words, and we are interested in the origin of nonce words that were introduced by Square (Enix) for use in Final Fantasy. Their evolution to the state they were in before Square Enix converted them to a nonce word seems outside the scope of the wiki since it doesn't have much to do with Final Fantasy, but this final step in their evolution -- from non-nonce word to nonce word -- is in the scope. Cat (meowhunt) 14:28, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
First of all, thank you for the link to "nonce words". I learned something.
About etymology, I beg to differ. The wiki is using the word "etymology" the wrong way. Etymology is the study of the origin of words, meaning "why is a word written that way, and since when?", whereas this wiki's "etymology" pages are about whatever the words refer to.
An example: the word "house" and an actual house are two different things. The former is a word, the latter is a building (usually). Etymology could tell you since when the word "house" is written with those five letters in that order, why and since when the final "e" is not pronounced, and so on. Etymology deals with words, letters, phonemes, spellings, and so on, but not with the object a word refers to. The definition of "house" ("There are houses in FF. What is a real-world house?") is not etymology at all. --Abacos (talk) 15:01, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
I'd honestly rather just delete all etymology pages and I was never fond of the etymology namespace to begin with. To me all it does is add bloat when we could easily just do a wikipedia link to the original word being referred to (i.e. wikipedia link to Shiva instead of forcing editors to write a longass section on Shiva and then have that duplicated across 20 pages). Definitely the Project:Etymology page should be deleted and moved to an abridged version in the Project:Manual of Style, but I'd rather just can the whole Etymology project so editors can focus their efforts elsewhere.--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator TC 17:16, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Welcome to the discussion. Your opinion is an Okham's razor. I love it. No etymology pages, no problem (Bob Marley rules). A bot to put 2600 "etymology" pages to the bin? Wow. --Abacos (talk) 17:29, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
I'd like to link to wikipedia and wiktionary (or if there is a more suitable website, then there instead) as much as possible rather than put the stuff here, and mention only the parts specific to Final Fantasy. I dislike the explanations on common words, too! An English-speaking person knows what "fire" or "lightning" is. I'd like something that encompasses both etymology and symbolism, but can't think what that would be called. If something in the series seems fashioned after some real world thing, then it's interesting to mention at least briefly. Like how a lot of the early series is influenced by D&D, this seems notable to mention. Wiktionary-given antonyms to "in-universe" are "doylist", "extradiegetic" and "out-of-universe" and none of those sound like good headers!Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 20:00, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Okay Techno, if you want to turn my user talk into impromptu policy discussion...

I'm not a big fan of etym pages for things that are just a normal word, especially if said normal word is an English one, it comes off as assuming a level of literacy of our readers lower than that needed to actually read the site. This is not an argument against etym, but a feeling that it over-expanded to the point where everything was given one, even if it doesn't need it.

The fact that it's just templatespace 2 is also kind of an issue, but one I'm not sure how to fix effectively. I also have zero opinion on the name. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 20:07, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

ETA: Also if you all actually want to make a policy discussion out of this take it elsewhere, please. 20:08, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
I see Technobliterator's and Keltainentoukokuu's point. This wiki is about Final Fantasy. If a reader wants to know where in the real world the authors took inspiration from, a link to Wikipedia and/or Wiktionary is all that is needed. If anyone needs an actual etymology, a link to the [ Online Etymology Dictionary] is my suggestion. Three bullet-point links under an "external links" section title, similar to Wikipedia. Simple and elegant. ---Abacos (talk) 20:19, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Shall we move all this to the Final_Fantasy_Wiki_talk:Etymology page? ---Abacos (talk) 20:19, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the "Lemon" article[]

May I ask why it was removed under rule A1 and not rule A3? 21:02, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

They were both valid options and the drop-down list only lets me select one. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 23:55, 17 May 2022 (UTC)