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If you haven't seen this forum, the text below is just copied from there. However, I have taken the time to indicate the relevance of points, by means of a tidy little code, to show that IT'S CLOUD X AERIS NOT CLOUD X TIFA, YOU FOOLS!!! Enjoy!

Key:

  • Bold Text -- A massively strong point in favour of whichever of the two sides it's arguing for.
  • Italic Text -- A fairly strong point. Not as strong as Bold, but still more than just in favour.
  • Red Text -- A point whose use as an argument point is batf*ck insane, or at least invalid. They are often utterly irrelevant as well.
  • Blue Text -- A feasible point, but one which is equally indicative of simply strong friendship rather than love.
  • Green Text -- A point which, while feasible, is primarily based on a (possibly dodgy) assumption.

Each one will be graded as follows:

  • +5 points
  • +3 points
  • +1 point
  • +0 points
  • +0 points
  • -1 point (This is punishment for making stupid assertions)

At the end, the points will be totalled and compared. I confidently predict that Cloud X Aeris will be well in the lead.



The "love triangle" between Cloud, Aeris, and Tifa is probably the second largest debate about Final Fantasy VII, and, like the Aeris resurrection theory, is still argued to this very day[1]. Throughout disk one the player must make decisions about who he likes more - Aeris or Tifa. This results in the "date" scene at the Gold Saucer; however, you may also "date" Barret or Yuffie by making Cloud friendlier to one or the other.

Despite the fact that it is up to the player to decide who he loves many people debate over it. They have names for each couple. Cloud & Aeris are called either Cloris/Clorith or Cleris/Clerith while Cloud & Tifa are called Cloti. Many fanlisting websites for those two couples have sprung up; however, a lot of "flaming" websites have sprung up as well. Square Enix has been very keen not to be direct about who the canon couple is because it would alienate a lot of fans.[2]

Reasons For "Cleris/Clerith"Edit

  1. Cloud was clearly upset by Aeris' death.
  2. He killed Sephiroth to avenge Aeris.[3]
  3. Aeris was the first person Cloud started being warm to.
  4. In all of Yoshitaka Amano's artwork, Cloud is only paired up with Aeris.
  5. In "Advent Children", he wants forgiveness from Aeris for being too slow to prevent her death.
  6. Aeris is the easiest date to get. You must alienate Aeris to get Tifa.
  7. Cait Sith foretells that Aeris and Cloud are a perfect match.[4]
  8. Though Aeris sees a resemblance between Cloud and Zack, she says, "But you're different."
  9. During "Advent Children's" end credits, a love song plays. Cloud and Aeris are the only characters shown.
  10. At the end of the game, Cloud is shown extending his hand to Aeris.[5]
  11. Cloud becomes Aeris' bodyguard in exchange for one date.
  12. Cloud has a spiritual connection with Aeris.[6]
  13. Cloud and Aeris are opposites in personality and appearance, like Squall and Rinoa, Zidane and Garnet, or Tidus and Yuna.[7]
  14. When Cloud is impaled by Sephiroth and is taunted by his question "Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away." He immediately sees Aeris, Zack, and lastly Tifa's images. Aeris's image is seen 3 times, while Zack and Tifa's are only seen once.
  15. Although Aeris is dead, she still comes to Cloud and tries to get him to forgive himself. It is only through her that Cloud stops feeling guilty.[8]
  16. In the novel Maiden Who Travels the Planet, it states of Aeris "she loved him much more than her first love".[9]
  17. In the game, Cloud has a flashback where he visits his mother. She asks him if he has a girlfriend. He replies no. She continues, saying that he should have a girlfriend that is older than him to take care of him. Aerith is one year older than Cloud in FF7 and Tifa is younger.[10]
  18. Eris, from Greek mythology, is the goddess of strife. Eris is pronounced as Aeris, and Cloud's last name is Strife.[11]
  19. Beyond Final Fantasy VII, Cloud and Aeris are frequently shown together in other games and in merchandising.[12]

After Advent Children came out, it just inflamed the entire debate all over again, because to Cleris fans, Cloud seems to abandon Tifa and his home because of guilt over Aeris's death, and because of his geostigma. Additionally, Cloud and Aeris seem to have a more functional relationship than Cloud and Tifa, because although Cloud and Tifa are seen together a lot, they don't seem to understand each other as well as Cloud and Aeris. Also significant is the argument made by these fans that Tifa can't make Cloud happy because he never smiles at her, yet he smiles longingly after Aeris' spirit. In the game, Aeris even makes Cloud laugh.[13]

Reasons For "Cloti"Edit

  1. Cloud had a crush on Tifa years before he met Aeris.[14]
  2. Before Cloud left Nibelheim, he promised Tifa that he would always be there to protect her when she was in danger.[15]
  3. Cloud left Nibelheim to be able to protect Tifa, and demonstrate that he was worthy of her.[16]
  4. Tifa was the one who helped Cloud regain his true memories.[17]
  5. Tifa stayed and helped Cloud when he was hospitalized in Mideel.[18]
  6. The doctor in Mideel gave them his blessing.[19]
  7. Cloud dressed as a woman to save Tifa. (This should really be enough)[20]
  8. Tifa and Cloud are shown together often in "Advent Children".[21]
  9. In the short story "On the Way to a Smile: Case of Tifa", Cloud smiles and says he believes he can start a new life unlike the last time he tried, because Tifa is there with him.
  10. Some believe that Aeris was killed simply to make Tifa Cloud's love.[22]
  11. Tifa is considered to be Cloud's emotional support in "Advent Children."
  12. "Case of Tifa" also mentions Cloud and Tifa are living together once Barret leaves Marlene in their care, and the two are running Seventh Heaven together.
  13. In Last Order, Cloud and Tifa share a (partially extended from the video game) moment where Tifa acknowledges Cloud's fulfillment of their promise while Cloud smiles at her.
  14. At the end of the game, Tifa and Cloud's themes mix together.[23]
  15. Tifa's only storyline seems to revolve around her relationship with Cloud, while Aeris has a story that veers from Cloud.[24]
  16. Cloud, Tifa, Denzel, and Marlene are shown to be a "family" as indicated by the photo at the beginning of "Advent Children."[25]
  17. Reminiscence, the review of Final Fantasy VII, plus short story, indicates Cloud returning to Tifa's bar for a party, while it also shows many of what are considered the 'Cloti' scenes of the game.[26]
  18. In the Advent Children Ultimania, the creator states that Tifa is "...like a mother (母のような), sweetheart and fighter..." using the word koibito(恋人)to describe sweetheart, a word exclusively used as lover. Many Cloti fans believe this is evidence that at some point, Cloud and Tifa were lovers.[27]
  19. Although it is shown for a second, Cloud smiles at Tifa first in the movie. This happens when Tifa smiles at him, and he responds back with his own smile while surrounded by the children in the water.[28]
  20. Cloud's broken mind molds memories of Zack's stories into his own memory, thus making it quite probable that Aeris simply thought Cloud was cute, and Cloud had a confused notion that she was his girlfriend (or should be), thus making the relationship an "accident", whereas Tifa is the one to pull Cloud out of the mess.[29]
  21. Aeris is dead.---------------(-5)[30]

There is a scene between Cloud and Tifa at the end of disc 2 where the party splits up before the final showdown with Sephiroth, to take time out and reflect on each party member's own reasons for fighting. Tifa and Cloud, not having any remaining family or material ties to "go home" to, are left moping alone together under an anchored Highwind for a night. They talk for a while and after a time Tifa remarks to Cloud that "Words aren't the only thing that tell people what you're thinking." The screen fades to black, and they wake up the next morning leaning against each other.[31]

Both?Edit

It is highly possible that both relationships are real, as Aeris did die, so they can't exactly have a relationship if she is dead. Maybe Cloti is possible after Aeris died, as at the end of Advent Children, Zack and Aeris seemed to have continued their relationship from Crisis Core in the Lifestream, so maybe Cloud and Tifa started one, not dead. Either way, it's better if you don't really know because it wouldn't be as exciting if you did know.[32]



FINAL SCORE: Aeris 36, Tifa 1. My prediction was correct, and Cloti phailz. Cloud X Aeris 4evar!!!

ReferencesEdit

  1. Though quite how anyone can still believe the Aeris Resurrection Theory is beyond me.
  2. That and their desire to mess with our heads. They blatantly love to do that.
  3. There are many reasons for him to kill Sephy, although Aeris's death probably made it more of a vendetta.
  4. Though this one does strongly hinge on whether this is his second ever correct prediction, the first being the one when he joins the party, which (in retrospect) clearly predicts that they will find Sephiroth ("what you seek will be yours"), but that Aeris will die ("but you will lose something dear").
  5. Though this could partly be related to her being in the Lifestream.
  6. I have no idea exactly what this is supposed to mean.
  7. Although this is a slightly circumstantial argument, Square does tend to adhere to set patterns like this.
  8. This one hinges on the question: "Why the hell would he need anyone else's forgiveness for failing to prevent Aeris's death?".
  9. This one assumes he loved her back, so I will grudgingly not add points for it.
  10. Very circumstantial, but just barely neat enough to validate it as being worth 1 point.
  11. I like this one. Whoever found it out is brilliant.
  12. Again, a bit too circumstantial. It hinges heavily on the fame of the characters as much as personal relations between them.
  13. This paragraph basically constitutes three distinct points. The first is a three-pointer, and the other two are one-pointers, so it's a five-pointer overall.
  14. Operative words: "crush" and "before he met Aeris". This one is like saying that you'd rather live in a cave than in a house because humans lived in caves years before they started to build houses. Unless of course you do happen to prefer caves...
  15. Okay, it's not your average promise, so I'll allow it.
  16. Born most likely from the crush and as a reaction to the Mt. Nibel incident after Tifa's mother died.
  17. Because Aeris couldn't, as she lacked the memories of Nibelheim required to make sense of things. It hardly counts for Tifa when there's no other option that could take her place.
  18. Like the one for Aeris above, this one is based on the assumption that it's mutual.
  19. Er... what? When was this, exactly?
  20. Assuming, of course, he isn't a closet transvestite.
  21. No, really? Couldn't be because, say, they live in the same house, could it? He spends far more of his screen-time not with her, and some of the most important parts of the film are screen-time that is Cloud/Aeris-related.
  22. I'd make this one double-red colour font, if only that were possible. Consider it an act of mercy that I don't subtract 5 points for this one.
  23. I'm being generous here by not greening it.
  24. OMG, I think this might be the first half-decent argument in the Cloti list. Although it could be taken to indicate that Tifa is a somewhat one-dimensional person...
  25. This was precisely the one I had in mind when creating the blue-text category. Especially since not all photos are family photos. Is a photo, say, of a group of friends at a party a family photo? I think not.
  26. Less batf*ck, more irrelevant. It shows those scenes because they are important story points, so can hardly be left out of a storyline summary.
  27. If this one is actually exactly true as stated, i.e. koibito is absolutely exclusive as lover in the sense used here, then this is a strong point.
  28. He smiles at Tifa first because he doesn't notice that Aeris is there to begin with!
  29. This is an assertion of two halves. The first, the Zack scenario, is valid as an attempt at discrediting Cloud X Aeris. However, it doesn't by default support Cloti. The second part is merely the same as point #4, and thus carries the same weight (i.e. none) in supporting Cloti.
  30. No, I will not be merciful. This definitely has -5 instead of -1 beacuse it is so stupid. As a general rule, if someone you love dies, you can't just replace them. This argument ticks all the boxes: it's batf*ck, and it's irrelevant. As of the end of their respective games, Sephiroth, President Shinra, Hojo, Cait Sith (V1), General Leo, Shadow, Kefka, Gestahl, Ultimecia, Adel, Raine, Kuja, Garland, Brahne, Auron, Braska, Seymour, Yu Yevon, Yunalesca, Lenne, Shuyin, Vayne, Gabranth, Cid the XIIth, Mydia, Velis, and Feolthanos are all dead... OH NOES! The massively popular Sephiroud, Clinra, Clojo, Clout Sith, Cleo, Cladow, Clefka, Clestahl, Ultimecioud, Cloudel, Claine, Cluja, Clarland, Clahne, Clouron, Claska, Cleymour, Clevon, Yunalescloud, Clenne, Clouyin, Clayne, Clabranth, Cloudolfus Demen Bunansa, Clydia, Clelis, and Clouthanos pairings are proven wrong! Oh, btw, character death spoilers. :P
  31. This paragraph scrapes a 3-pointer because Tifa's remark to Cloud and Cloud's question to the rest of the team the following day ("Were you watching?") do rather imply teh secks. Maybe.
  32. First of all, I do kinda like this section's spirit (even if I don't entirely agree). I dispute whether "Zack and Aeris seemed to have continued their relationship", though. Finally, the last remark ("better if you don't really know") is ridiculous, as it'd stop the bitter flame wars if we knew. Though said wars can be amusing to watch...





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