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This talk page is used for discussing improvements to the page "Yaag Rosch". It is not the place for general discussion or sharing stories about the topic of this article.
Doga
TenzaDrakeKain(black)
TenzaZangetsu 17,957 November 26 2009 (UTC)  -   "I brough you back from hell, I can take you back there.":
I was thinking the same thing, let's hope that him and Cid can become allies.

Proud Clad

If I didn't know any better I'd swear I've heard that before.... Doreiku Kuroofangu 05:02, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

My question is, should it remain Proud Clad in the english version, should we make a disambig for Proud Clod and Proud Clad? --Adonzo 01:05, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
Proud Clod was a boss in FFVII. While we're on the topic, does anyone else notice a superficial resemblance between this guy and Sephiroth? He has silver hair, wears a long black coat, and wields a katana. Silver Dragon XXVIII 00:18, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
FFT Zilean Funeral In Pursuit (talk), 01:18, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
No. Their personalities are faaaaaaar different. And His uniform is more similar to Cid's only in black tone and without the long cape.


Although I disagree with the whole "Light is the female Cloud" thing, it does lead inevitably to the inclusion of a Sephiroth proxy :P With his silver hair and katana, I have referred to Rosch as the "Sephiroth Wannabe" of FFFXIII right from the first time I saw him. As for the Proud Clod, it's blatantly just a mistranslation of Proudclad. FFVII is littered with enemies like that, most notably Helletic (Heretic) Hojo and Safer (Seraph) Sephiroth -- Sorceror Nobody Flan 22:20, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Yaag's Trivia

Shouldn't we put Yaag's height up in his trivia?

Go ahead, if you know it. 8bit 04:11, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Saïx

YaagSaixcompare.gif

HarpieSiren is convinced that Yaag looks nothing like Saïx. Of course, the trivia item in queston is pointing out strong similarity, not outright resemblance (although I think there is resemblence). To settle this, I present the animation to the right. The first half-and-half frame – with Yaag on the left and Saïx on the right – makes a particularly strong case, IMO -- SN Cocoon Sig 18:37, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, I see more of a resemblance between kh!Seifer to Snow than there is between Yaag and Saix, and that's "non notable" according to the edit history of Snow's article. Never mind that Yaag wasn't designed by Nomura. Of course, neither of them are like the case with Axel and Reno where there's supposed to be a resemblance.

ETA: You know, I actually see more of a resemblance to Xemnas than anyone else.

HarpieSiren 18:51, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Just want to point out that it doesn't necessarily have to be intentional, so non-Nomuraness doesn't automatically discount it -- SN
EDIT: Also, Ikeda (who oversaw Yaag's design) frequently works with Nomura, so... -- SN
But doesn't that make it a subjective opinion then? HarpieSiren 19:02, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, undoubtedly. But I suspect there are some things on this wiki far more substantial than this comparison which are even more subjective. Anyway, it has been known for fan opinions to gain a sort of notability en masse, which is partly why I've raised this issue on the talk page. I'm basically polling people's opinion on the comparison :P -- SN Cocoon Sig 19:13, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
In general, though, I'm of the opinion that most things in the trivia sections should have some basis in fact. You know, a point of information that we can't really fit anywhere else on the article. Trivia sections can kind of go crazy if people are allowed to put their opinions on them. I've seen that happen over at the KH wiki. HarpieSiren 19:30, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
I don't disagree in the slightest with that. Let's just wait and see what other people have to say, as a back-and-forth discussion just between the two of us is not going to actually do a lot :P -- SN Cocoon Sig 20:31, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

The first thing I thought when I saw him was Saix - I think it's fine to say his design is similar (like the Reno/Axel) thing. There's no harm in that. There is harm in suggesting his design was lifted or inspired by Saix though, but no harm in mentioning the observation. - Paramina 02:19, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

I was pointed to this on my talk page to weigh in, so I am. I really don't know about the standards of the wiki, but I don't personally see the harm so long as it's kept objective. There's a similar note on Hecatoncheir looking similar to Magitek armor and Rikku's Machina Maw with a note that it's coincidence, so given that Nomura didn't design Yaag, I don't see why the similarity couldn't be pointed out with wording that similarly discourages speculation. Bluestarultor 17:02, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

"Many fans consider Rosch's appearance to be similar to that of Saïx from the Kingdom Hearts series, especially <insert similarities here>. The similarities are probably just a coincidence, although it may be worth noting that while Rosch was not designed by Kingdom Hearts character designer Tetsuya Nomura, his design was overseen by Nao Ikeda, who is known to frequently work with Nomura."
...something along those lines, perhaps? Although maybe it should be less wordy that that :P -- Sorceror Nobody Flan 17:44, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
Well, didn't the creators acknowledge that Hecatoncheir ended up looking like Magitek armor even though that wasn't their intent? And, y'know, if you have to clarify it using weasel words, "many fans" in SN's example, then it probably isn't objective. And it just goes back to the whole subjective opinion vs objective fact thing. HarpieSiren 18:21, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
Since neither characters' appearance is variable, any similarity present is technically a fact... but I digress. Back with serious discussion, I concede that "many fans" is a bit weasely, but I was merely being conservative about it. Now that I've made that point, it's time to go off on a dubious tangent once again: we could always set up a poll to find out what proportion of users think there's a resemblance :P In fact, although it is probably utterly futile, I'll demonstrate (not that polls ever work because it's possible to multiple-vote) -- Sorceror Nobody Flan 19:08, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
Do you think that Rosch has a passable resemblance to Saïx? The animation above may help you to decide
 
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The poll was created at 19:04 on July 12, 2010, and so far 49 people voted.

I think a better setup would be more like:

  • His design was overseen by Nao Ikeda, supporting character designer for Final Fantasy XIII.
  • Oddly, despite not having been designed by Tetsuya Normura, he has similar features, such as his blue hair, long bangs, and swept-back spikes, to Nomura's design for Saïx of Kingdom Hearts.

That keeps it short, sweet, objective, and coincidental. Bluestarultor 19:39, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

^ This. - Paramina 19:53, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

I say we start a second poll - "Do you care that they look alike/should it be noted in the article?" My answer to both is no. Doreiku Kuroofangu 20:17, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
Or a third poll: was Drake's comment blunt, cutting, or pointed? :P
In all seriousness, if people are going to be putting it up, I'd rather it be as benign as possible. Bluestarultor 20:27, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
Why is "It is an opinion, and therefore it cannot be objective" so hard to grasp? HarpieSiren 01:46, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
Firstly, as I said before, if they look similar, they look similar. That is technically a fact. The earth is not a perfect sphere, but is it a matter of opinion that it looks very similar to one? No, it is a fact that it does. I know the analogy isn't brilliant, but I think it at least conveys my point. Secondly, although I do not claim the poll to be accurate or truly representative (to do so would be stupid), it's looking quite good for resemblance so far. I should point out that I chose the conservative "fairly alike" option myself, not the comparatively extreme "strong resemblance". Thirdly, and finally, I agree with Bluestarultor's suggestion (and Paramina's support of it), although I still think it's worth mentioning that Ikeda has been known to work closely with Nomura -- Sorceror Nobody Flan 09:19, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
The issue with mentioning Nomura and Ikeda have worked together is it's a "duh" and serves no purpose other than to open the door to speculation. They worked together on the very game in question, here, but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to their respective designs. Nomura and Amano worked together, too, but that doesn't have any bearing on either of their personal styles. It's unlikely that Ikeda was influenced by Nomura's work that heavily when he was drawing things up. Or maybe he was, which is why Jihl's been compared to a cross between Quistis, Vayne, and Sephiroth. I'd rather not speculate like that. Honestly, I don't care one way or another if it's mentioned, but if it is mentioned, I'd rather it be objective as possible. Whether it's actually notable is something I'm not comfortable weighing in on, which is why I left it in the first place and have only suggested ways to keep it clean. Bluestarultor 18:24, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
Since when is Nao Ikeda male? :P -- Sorceror Nobody Flan 19:16, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

SN, you're confusing your opinion with fact. "if they look similar, they look similar. That is technically a fact." - you think they look similar, that is your opinion, it is not fact, other people may disagree. There is no universal scale by which we can measure the resemblance someone bears to someone else, so saying such is opinion, and in my opinion they really don't look alike. The fancy-smancy .gif is nice but I've seen a similar one for Cloud and Lightning and who would say they look alike? And really, not since the birth and height edit wars on the FF7 pages have I seen so much effort and time put into such a meaningless issue. I revive and reword my earlier suggestion: rather than ask if you think they look alike, I ask "does it really matter", who really cares? I say we find out. Doreiku Kuroofangu 22:19, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

Do you really care if Yaag and Saix look alike?
 
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The poll was created at 22:19 on July 13, 2010, and so far 49 people voted.

in the 15 minutes since this poll was made 5 people have voted for the losing side and not left comments i'm suspicious (188.141.107.240 22:42, July 13, 2010 (UTC))

20 mintes 8 people still no comments

my mistake 6(188.141.107.240 22:50, July 13, 2010 (UTC))

7 (188.141.107.240 22:53, July 13, 2010 (UTC))

There's just no need for comments... KujaRhapsodos 22:55, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
People who don't care don't leave comments because they don't care. I don't care btw. 88.108.108.155 22:57, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

it'd make it look less like someone was multiple voting though

also earliest records of 88.108.108.155 are from a few hours ago (188.141.107.240 23:03, July 13, 2010 (UTC))

Contributions from anons are kept to one day. "88.108.108.155" has contributed a lot more than that. Also... I use this last edit to say that we're clogging the Recent changes for nothing at all. KujaRhapsodos 23:06, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

that's a not true my contributions from more than 24 hours ago are shown http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/188.141.107.240 also being fake grown-up makes everyone hate you

ahem forgot my signature (188.141.107.240 23:19, July 13, 2010 (UTC))

9 (188141107240 23:32, July 13, 2010 (UTC))

I have a dynamic IP that changes everyday. I haven't chosen too, but I like it. Hides my real contribution to the wiki and sometimes keeps people guessing if it's me or not. Doesn't happen a lot, I don't bother to hide my habits. 88.108.108.155 23:37, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

okay, obvious question any good reason to believe that?

luckily i'm an unusually pedantic person who took screenshots just to be safe which can be seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAr5YhduWC0

10

(188.141.107.240 00:32, July 14, 2010 (UTC))

a vote in the other poll for not much resemblance (188.141.107.240 00:35, July 14, 2010 (UTC))

Is it really necissary to comment how many people say no? FFVIIACCXD 00:48, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

if it will make clear whether or not a poll is fake and i'm bored then yep

Good grief! Grow up, people. If such a petty thing is going to cause so much trouble, I'm inclined to say it's not worth it and I'll make a point to edit it out out of spite if people insist on changing it just to be contrary. Bluestarultor 02:06, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

EDIT CONFLICT: To make clear if a poll is a fake? You know, it's not because it's the Internet that everyone on here cheats. We're people, we have lives... Like everyone. There's no reason to start acting stupid. Also, the poll, and this whole section is completely irrelevent. That someone would fake that poll 1) is highly unlikely 2) doesn't matter in the slightest. Finally, you make completely useless edits, and a big amount of them. After a warning, you didn't stop. While it's not worthy of a ban in itself, it puts you on the road to it. KujaRhapsodos 02:08, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

i don't understandwhy someone faking the poll is unlikely surely your only reason 'no one would' is answered by the fact some fake polls exist


I was going to say something along the lines of "Oh, god, what have I started!?" but then I realised that this insane derailment isn't my fault. If anything, it's Drake's, because he kicked off the "does anyone care" issue, but I wouldn't be such an arse as to lay all the blame on him (because it's not all anyone's fault). I accept blame for starting the whole thing, but not for the direction it has now taken. Oh, and Drake? I never said there was a universal measure of similarity. You may have noticed that I conceded the flaws of my analogy. Also, back when I first called any potential similarity technically a fact, I originally planned to use the word "hypothetically", but unfortunately left it out of the final saved text... -- Sorceror Nobody Flan 08:25, July 14, 2010 (UTC)


Nomura has a bad habit of using the Only Six Faces effect, so naturally, everyone has just loved starting flame wars of 'who-looks-like-who' over the years. /twocents 尾藤 15:45, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Well, for Reno, it's listed how similar to Axel in his triva, so it seems wrong not to put how much Rosch looks like Saix in his trivia.--Fallowstar--Frozen Waters Still Make Ripples... 13:48, December 19, 2010 (UTC)

Difference being that Axel is meant to be very similar to Reno, whereas Yaag is not, as far as we know, necessarily meant to resemble Saix -- SN Cocoon Sig 14:04, December 19, 2010 (UTC)

I know, but then again, who's to say that Noctis or Hope are similar to a certain Nobody? *cough* ZEXION! *cough*

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