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This talk page is used for discussing improvements to the page "Ultimate weapon (term)". It is not the place for general discussion or sharing stories about the topic of this article.

Ultimate Weapon would need to be changed into a disambig if this stays. Not a bad idea for an article in my opinion though.Keltainentoukokuu 23:45, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

I think we don't need this page. The best weapon in each game is subjective to the player, so this page would be fairly meaningless. ScatheMote 13:40, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
That's not always the case, though it is in many games. For example, in Final Fantasy VIII, there can be no doubt that Squall's ultimate weapon is the Lion Heart, it's the only one that ives you his best limit break! By that same token, in Final Fantasy XIII, while which "Ultimate Weapon" is the best is up for debate, every weapon upgrades into the same third tier weapon name, so there's only one Ultimate Weapon for each character. I think it's relevant for some games and not so relevant for others. Jimcloud 13:47, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
Edit conflict
In FFX, it is not subjective. VIII is not subjective. I remember I think VII is pretty clear with their best weapons. In IV I think it was made particularly clear, at least with the main five. If in doubt, whatever the player equips when "Optimise" is used. This article would be helpful to a player. Forget subjectiveness, I want to know where to find out how to get my character's best weapons, simply displayed in text form all on one page. 79.69.201.157 13:49, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
I think if this page is left up it will become like the plot hole page; people listing their favorite weapon setups and the page will become full of random useless stuff. Also, for games where it's not exactly clear (FFI, FFII, FFIII, FFV, FFVI, FFIX, FFXII) it will be very difficult to decide what will go on the page and what won't. Even with FFX, FFVIII, and FFVII, the page will become pretty clogged and unappealing because of all the weapons that need to be listed for each character. I just think it's better off for people to just look at the weapon lists of our articles; people don't need to find the ultimate weapons of more than one game at a time. ScatheMote 14:02, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
In FFXII every weapon type has an "ultimate" version. Fomalhaut is the ultimate gun, Zodiac Spear is the ultimate spear, Masamune is the ultimate katana. In the Zodiac Job System version though they added some new weapons, like there is another version of Masamune, so I don't know how that fares then... In FFVII the ultimate weapons are clearly labelled as they have special damage algorithms and no Materia growth, but then, some characters' special damage algorithms might not be very good... Vincent might be worse with his "ultimate weapon" than with his "second best".Keltainentoukokuu 14:18, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
I thinks that's where some of the subjectivity comes in. I think Tifa's ultimate weapon is a total waste of time to equip, but it is technically her ultimate weapon. However, the page claims that the "Ultimate Weapon" is the best weapon for that character, but I believe the Premium Heart is not the best weapon. If there is a even a doubt about what is the best weapon in the majority of the games, we're better off not having the page. ScatheMote 14:31, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
Edit conflict x2
At first I misread the article name as "Ultima Weapon (Term)" and was all liek "lolwut?".
But yeah, I feel we've needed this article for a looong time. Disambiguate "Ultimate Weapon". It might be an idea to link to the "Ultima Weapon (enemy)" article instead of just Ultimate Weapon from VII (i.e: "The recurring [[Ultima Weapon (enemy)|boss]]"). 79.69.201.157 13:49, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

This article is not meaningless at all. This article can be made to a list of strongest weapon in the series. Omega Mk.XII 13:51, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

Someone said FFX isn't subjective, but couldn't you customise a weapon 'better' than their Celestial Weapon if you don't like the abilities in their Celestial Weapon? Like what if I don't want Gillionaire for Rikku, I could make a weapon better than her Celestial Weapon? Is this customised version then the best weapon, her ultimate weapon?Keltainentoukokuu 13:57, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

Well, the game tries to treat the Celestial Weapons (with their accompanied Crests and Sigils) to be the best weapons in the game, right? "When at their full strength, the Celestial Weapons are among the most powerful weapons in the game." 79.69.201.157 14:01, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

Celestial Weapons are in fact ultimate weapons in Spira as they also raise damage limits of most Aeons.—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) 22:28, July 16, 2011 (UTC)


I've edited the opening of the article to make the definition not be quite so draconian as to require the weapon to be the best in the game. Is the definition of Ultimate Weapon as laid out there amicable to everyone? Jimcloud 23:07, July 16, 2011 (UTC)


As this page is about the best weapons. We could make an ultimate summon page or is that pointless. FF9 18:44, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

The existence of a definitive best summon is less obvious, and less prevalent, than the existence of definitive ultimate weapons. Sure, ones such as KoR and Eden clearly outclass their fellows, but this tends not to be the case. For instance, in FFIX, Ark is the strongest Eidolon, and the hardest to obtain, so surely it's the ultimate one? Not really. He's Shadow elemental, so he's useless against enemies that absorb Shadow. In FFVI, Crusader is incredibly potent, but also incredibly crap to use. In FFX, there would be three candidates, all for different reasons... I think you get the idea. It's simply much less clear-cut than the weapons.
Another difference is that ultimate weapons are actually a well-defined subset of weapons; they usually have special properties. Any "ultimate summons", by contrast, are generally not really special in any way other than the sheer amount of damage they deal -- Sorceror Nobody Flan 20:44, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

Tournesol Edit

The statement that "the tournesol is the ultimate greatsword in final fantasy XII" is false- the wyrmhero blade is the ultimate greatsword (and probably main ultimate weapon period). First of all, the wyrmhero blade has better stats, but that isn't the main reason. you have to kill BOTH superbosses, and do the best possible in the fishing minigame to get it, while the tournesol can just be made by selling rare loot.——Preceding unsigned comment was added by McBob49 (talkcontribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~.

...then fix it. Cat (meowhunt) 20:57, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Done. I'm not exactly the best at editing these things, so someone might wanna polish it a little. McBob49 (talk) 19:07, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

I think Wyrmhero Blade can be considered the ultimate weapon, although it is bit murky, because it can also be considered a "trophy weapon" for how slow it is and how, in order to get it, you must have already felled all the challenging foes. I don't oppose you changing it though.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 19:33, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

I agree it's sortof a trophy weapon, but aside from the speed, it's EXTREMELY good- it has high attack power, evasion equal to the best shield (not counting the one that puts status ailments on you), and it puts constant faith and bravery on you. just cast haste on whoever uses it and you're fine. I also had a part about how you don't need it by the time you have it.


Update with Different Versions Edit

ACRudeBox

This article doesn't need to cover the said weapons either: It should only list and link to them and point their types/users. Ultimate weapons almost always have their own articles due to their notability. - 14:46, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

FFVI Additions Edit

I feel the FFVI section should add three more weapons because I find that most fans of the series rely on these weapons more than GBA's new character specific ultimate weapons. The Lightbringer is statistically one of the best weapons in the game with many high damage properties that outclass the GBA ultimate weapons. The other two are the Ultima Weapon and Fixed Dice due to their special damage algorithms but mainly because they can get around the nerfing properties of the Master's Scroll, making them both potentially the highest damage dealing weapons in the game. I want to bring it up here first because I don't want to edit it in and then have someone remove it because I missed something. Wolf Kanno True Beauty Exists Only in Things that Last a Moment

Go ahead and edit it I say. :) FFVI Advance isn't the only version that has ultimate weapons. I'd say Lightbringer, Ultima Weapon and Fixed Dice would count.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 13:24, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
Beat ya to it. No doubt the Lightbringer is by far and away the ultimate weapon of FFVI. Heck, with stats and buffs like that, it's probably the most ultimate weapon in the entire series. Ultima Weapon's another obvious addition to the list, since it eventually becomes much more powerful than anything else do to it scaling with your HP and being defense piercing. Fixed Dice...I honestly wouldn't put them there. They're a gimmick weapon, really, and only gain their true power by being coupled with the Master's Scroll. I think that case is a little too ambiguous to be considered, especially when Setzer's already got his own de facto "utlimate" in the Dragon's Den. Espritduo (talk) 13:37, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Japanese NameEdit

Where did we get the Japanese name if it's not a 'Square Enix term'? Is some game using this term in Japanese?—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) ∙ 16:26, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

Official guides probably use the term, but yeah it looks a bit fishy for an article that is labelled "nameless".Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 17:04, December 10, 2013 (UTC)
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