Talk: Solomon Ring

		Kaimi - "You know what? It's embarrassing to say this myself...But summoners and their guardians are kind of like Spira's ray of light. A lot of people in Spira depend on us. I learned to practice smiling when I'm sad, you know? I know it's hard." TALK - 14:59, September 6, 2012 (UTC)
		I know this might start something bigger, but...I don't really like the idea of demarcating FFVIII's and FFX's Solon Ring as in FFX it is a mere armour. Yet if we do want to be so sensitive we would need to make disambigs for pages such as Water Crystal, New World and there are more and in that cases we would really should abandon the formula: "For X from Final Fantasy Y, see: Z." So right now we need to establish if we do use that formula, and if we still should use it, when it should apply. Is there an article you think is of an exceptional quality? Vote for it here!

		Keltainentoukokuu - OH YEAH AWESOME TALK - Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:03, September 6, 2012 (UTC)
		It may be useful to disambiguate them always because you never know when they will add another one in a future game. Water Crystal should def be a disambig because it is an item in FFXII and in FFVIII.

Notes at the top are almost always left to laziness. The only instance where we should not disambiguate is for release articles which are never tagged (like Final Fantasy and Chocobo Racing).

Yeah, leaving notes is almost pure laziness in most circumstances. 79.69.195.68 15:07, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

I find myself adding notes when one thing with a name is much more prevalent and searched for than another thing with the same name. One example would be Bismarck. It's not about laziness, it's about what's looking at what deserves a disambig and what could do without one. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 17:41, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Nope. That's an excuse, or a belief that originated from people using notes in the first place. The idea is "is it worth moving this page and then having to fix lots of links when most people will be looking for this article anyway?".

You might think that sounds sensible, but if something were a redirect we would always turn it into a disambig instead of adding a note to the article it redirects to saying "[blah] redirects here, for the blah, see blah".

The only time something otherwise has been argued was on "Cloud". And most people said "derr, just use the disambig and click the link to Cloud's page".

It uses the same logic, it's just easier to turn a redirect into a disambig then having to move an article. 79.69.195.68 17:52, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

God, you and your predetermined notions that you're the only editor worth his salt around here, and everyone else is a lazy sack of sod. It was never about fixing links when it came to how I made my decisions, I have no problems with fixing links, and for you to just have that notion about everyone around here just doesn't do it for me. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 17:59, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Really? My opinions on how people handle adding notes at the top of articles is because the exact reason I do it is because I can't be bothered to move articles. And in my time editing I have encountered numerous times of other people doing it where the exact reasoning of "no point moving cuz so many links" is the reason the article does not get moved.

The reason we have a thread listing articles to be moved is also because people can't be bothered to move articles. 79.69.195.68 18:06, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

On the topic at hand, are we really arguing the importance of the two instances of Solomon Rings? Key items don't usually get articles in themselves, and if we wanted to we could put the VIII information at Doomtrain's article, if not also at LoVIII-Items. Solomon Ring in FFX is arguably Yuna's ultimate armor, because even an armor that has BreakHP, BreakMP, and Ribbon will still be called "Solomon Ring". Admittedly no one should waste their time on getting the BreakMP ability, but the point still stands.

Now if we're going to argue about different worths, we don't have a system. An enemy ability is usually ranked low, and a generic enemy is also usually ranked low. Are enemy abilities more important if they are used by bosses or final bosses? How significant does an enemy have to be to be worth moving articles? Is a game's main character more significant than a secondary character? Or do they always take priority? But if there's an enemy and a character, then should we disambiguate or just put the note on the character's page? And if we made an article about a sub-location like "Art Gallery", on what level does a sub-location (which wouldn't usually get an article) be reason enough to not disambiguate for the section of Collections called Art Gallery which is something found on the menu?

And need I go into details about other situations where we disambiguate for articles (or even just things that would otherwise redirect) when one thing is arguably far more important than the other one? I couldn't give you any off the top of my head, mind, but there's no consistency in how we add notes; some people do, some people don't. Sometimes people can be bothered, other times they can't. But the wiki likes disambiguations. We like to use them.

Disambiguations are far better than notes for multiple reasons. Firstly we don't have to rate the worth of an article or usage of a term because all are treated equally. Secondly, the purpose of a disambig is to clearly link to multiple usages of a term so it only makes sense to use them when there are two or more usages of a term rather than cop-out on adding a note when we can make a disambig do what it is there to do. Thirdly, disambigs also make it easier to link. When people don't check where article's locations are at and decide to just like to "Cloud", the wiki will be told that their is a mis-linking in the ListofDisambigs and can fix it to its appropriate page. If we aren't using disambigs then those links intending to link to the "lesser-important" thing won't be picked up on so easily.*(In fact when moving articles to disambiguate in the past I have noticed links to the previous article location that were intended to go to the /other/ article we were disambiguating for) 79.69.195.68 18:27, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

A really long-winded way of saying "this is what happens when you have a bunch of different people to edit the wiki all on their own way." ;) Everything is expected to lack some consistency, that is not a huge problem if one can still use the wiki to their needs. I also think disambigs are superior to notes. People browse the wiki distracted, not paying 100% attention; you search something and go "well this obviously wasn't what I was looking for" and you may just immediately click away from the page without reading what it says at the top in italics. A lot of people don't really read like little quotes or something on the top, or look at the maintenance template. Before I started contributing and just used the wiki as a reader, I was vaguely aware that the blue boxes on the top are some kind of "improve this article" notes but I never once read any of them ever, these kinda things were not the least bit relevant to me. Being sent to a directory, at least you see exactly where you are right away.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 18:38, September 6, 2012 (UTC)