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Merging[]
Is there really such a vast difference between Magic and Magick that this deserves it's own article? Same with all the other Magick articles. White Magick is no different from White Magic, Black Magick is no different from Black Magic, and Time Magick is no different from Time Magic. I say we should merge all these articles together. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}} | |||
No. Magick is used exclusively and faithfully in the Ivalice Alliance and deserves a seperate title. | |||
Na-huh. It's "Magic", with a "K". Some games call it "Magick", all the rest use "Magic". The most this spelling should get is: "Magic, also known as Magick is..." | |||
We have articles for every single incarnation of some specific summons, enemies, etc. And yet somehow it's some horrific sin to have an article for a distinct incarnation of an entire class of magic, which is far bigger? | |||
Is there any argument for this or are you just clarifying something, Dazuro? since presently there's no issue for this. | |||
Look, even though Ivalice is nice faithful to misspelling "Magic", that doesn't mean that their version of Magic is changed in any way. It's the same spells, that do the same thing. Totally the same as how Magic has worked ever since FFI. Unless every game in the series is getting articles for its Magic spells (and even more specifically, all its specific versions of White, Black, and other Magic), there is no reason for these pages to exist. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}} | |||
"Magick" isn't a spelling error if Square purposely used it in every single Ivalice Alliance game, and only in every single Ivalice Alliance game. If they didn't want it to be seperate from magic, they would have left it in XII and used "magic" in the other three games. | |||
It's not separate! It's not different! It's spelling, nothing more. Like "Aeris" and "Aerith". Like "Kain" and "Cain". | |||
*
Aerith/Aeris and Kain/Cain are in same games. Magicks's ONLY in Ivalice Alliance while other games use Magics. And dont Ivalice have "Technicks"? | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}} | |||
EDIT CONFLICT: Oh, God... Tell me this, then: is there such thing as "Arcane Magic"? No, there is only "Arcane Magick". Under your thinking, BlueHighwind, Arcane Magick would be moved to Arcane Magic, which doesn't exist in any Final Fantasy game. | |||
Arcane Magick will have to stay Arcane Magick. Same with Green Magick. No other game is dumb enough to divide spells that much. But as for the rest, they can be included as one article. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}} | |||
So "Arcane Magick" isn't a spelling error, then? But "Black Magick" is? Your logic fails me. On a side note, I enjoy correcting your grammatical errors of its and it's. | |||
Magick is always a spelling error. And a stupid one at that. But that's my opinion. Moving on: Since "Arcane Magick" only exists as Arcane Magick, we can't move it. That would be misrepresenting the facts. However "Black Magick" exists as "Black Magic". In fact, it's almost ALWAYS Black Magic. See the difference? When things are called by more than one name, we don't made two articles. We combine them into one. | |||
No, since "Black Magick" is different from "Black Magic", because is officially called "Black Magick" and I think "Black magick" heve spell that "Black Magic" dont and vice versa | |||
If your only difference is spelling, then you have nothing. =) | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}} | |||
EDIT CONFLICT: I'm going to bed now... The way this discussion started out as was a suggestion of moving Magick. Magick is a group of spells, some of which have occured in games that use Magic, and some that have not. If certain parts of magick are repetitive, such as Black Magick's Fire, Thunder, and Blizzard, and others are not, such as Arcane Magick and Green Magick, wouldn't it make sense to have Magick seperate as a whole? We have seperate articles on Black Magic, one each from I, III, and IV. Think of Black Magick as one of those pages, except the "k" stands for USED EXCLUSIVELY IN THE IVALICE ALLIANCE AND THUS KNOCKING OUT 2 TO 5 BIRDS, DEPENDANT ON THE MAGICK CLASS, WITH ONE ARTICLE. | |||
Birds? What the fuck are you talking about? No it wouldn't make sense. Magic and Magick are the same idea. We're not talking about two totally different constructs here, its only a difference of spelling. Just because two [pointless] branches of magic only use K does not mean we should be redundant with them all. I say one thing, one article. Is that stupid? Is that being difficult? | |||
Its still a 2v1 argument, and we both have good reasons to keep it this way. | |||
I didn't get my word in. You know how Bolt and Lit redirect to thunder? It's because even though they have different names, they're the same magic. Black Magick includes the same types spells as Black Magic. If two pages exist, one with the "K" and one without, then we may as well just merge them. It's contradicting the entire wiki. Go on, why not make three different articles for the same magic spell, known more commonly and most recent as "Thunder"? Yes, this is exclusive to the Ivalice Alliance... the spelling is exclusive, not the thought of Black Magic. ILHI 12:41, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I also remember that this started with Final Fantasy XII. Note that this game has two versions, the normal and the International - where there are noted differences in the classes of magic, which was why there are two pages for each type of color Magic and color Magick. Thus, this page serves best to link and list - a directory if you will - of the Magicks in XII. Thus, there will be no merge. This page may be regarded as a directory listing the magic types of the Ivalice series, and a subpage of sorts for the Magic article. | |||
Leading on to what I was about to suggest, we could type at the top "{{See Also|* Magic}}" in the cases of White, Black and Time - like we do for such things as jobs (eg. Black Mage (Final Fantasy)) ILHI 13:42, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
- Just dropping by to say that (if I remember correctly) the original Japanese games have no difference in spelling of the usual "magic" and Ivalice Alliance's "magick", and this difference is only present in the English translations (and in those translations based on the English ones) --Painocus 01:06, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Merging (Again)[]
BlueHighwind Q? 02:43, 1 July 2009 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
Bluerfn's reasons never satisfied me. If you want a page for FFXII Magic, you should just go with "List of Final Fantasy XII Spells" or whatever they system is now. Once again, I repeat that magic and magick are not different in any way, only spelling. Painocus pointed out that in the Japanese games that don't even bother spelling things differently. So again, merge. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 02:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
Bluerfn: This page may be regarded as a directory listing the magic types of the Ivalice series. ...Which means I should probably add things in about games other than XII. BlueH, if Black Magick exists, why on earth bother having Black Magic (Final Fantasy XII) or the like? | |||
BlueHighwind Q? 02:55, 1 July 2009 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
Obviously the title would have to be "Black Magick (Final Fantasy XII)", because Black Magick is in FFT and other games as well. And also, why does Ivalice need a Magic directory all for itself? Should FFVII get one as well? (Wait, Magic Materia kinda covers that.) Then how about Crystal Chronicles? Its not like Magic is especially different in Ivalice than in any other games in the series - other than name, but that's inconsequential as I've said before. At least in FFVII there's the Materia system. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 03:00, 1 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
At least in XII there's Licenses. At least in Revenant Wings spells are learned exclusively by level. At least in Tactics: WoTL spells are learned with JP. Er, wait, so you support Black Magick now, along with tags to differentiate by the four Ivalice Alliance games? | |||
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Eric Ryan Jones, Master Epopt — 03:01, 1 July 2009 (UTC) (edit conflict) | ||||||||||||||||
I agree with BlueHighwind here. If it's the same thing in a version and only differs in name here, then I see it as synonymous. | ||||||||||||||||
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And so do I. Magick and magic refer to the same thing albeit with a difference in spelling. By "the same thing" I mean the metaphysical ability to cast spells. It is irrelevant that there existed "Black Magick (Final Fantasy XII)" or "Black Magic (Final Fantasy XII)". As I asked over the IRC channel, the person that has one non-trivial reason against the merging should stand up now. Faethinte audio 03:16, 1 July 2009 (UTC): This is me confirming the above message. I entered it while not being logged in. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 21:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
I will concede that Magick and Magic are basically the same idea, the "the metaphysical ability to cast spells". If you want to merge this page with Magic, go ahead. Sorry for being so stubborn Especially to BlueH ._." However, is it very relevant that Black Magick (Final Fantasy XII) exists in lieu of Black Magic (Final Fantasy XII) becasue the latter is utterly nonexistant in any Ivalice game. All tagged pages should have the K. For subdivisions, Green Magick and Arcane Magick remain as such, Blue Magick is a redirect to the Blue Mage (Final Fantasy Tactics A2) page, and Red Magick follows after Blue's lead. Look at it this way: Anyone who searches for "Black Magick" obviously is looking for healing spells in the Ivalice Alliance series. Therefore, if you type in "Black Magic", you should expect to see links to Black Magick (Final Fantasy XII), and the job pages for the Tactics, Revenant Wings, and TA2 Black Mages. This would be in the form of a disambiguation page, and White Magick and Time Magick would follow suit. This is superior to having Black Magick redirect to Black Magic, which is simply a list of recurring and non-recurring spells. Black Magic (Final Fantasy) and Black Magic (Final Fantasy V) exist on their own, and Black Magick should as well; it's an Ivalice Alliance directory, to put it in Blue's words. | |||
And on that note, since you brought up FFI and V having their own magic pages, would it be wise to do that with the other games? Granted, FFI and V do have a "List of" Spells page, so.....not sure on that little bit | |||
Yes, I am just a little noob who either doesn't know, or won't bother to go check how to create talk bubbles, but now I'm going to tell a few things, regardless of my noob status. BlueHighwind, you should be silent once in a while. Your attitude towards everything is terrible. Is it such a big deal this article exists? If it is, I'll give you few points for the reason it exists.
- As said before, Magic of Ivalice, called Magick, is divided into more sections than other incarnations of magic in Final Fantasy. - When there are people who seek information about Magick, yes, Magick, the Magic of Ivalice, especially when they want to read gameplay related information of Magick, there's plenty of this article to offer.
It's just an article. Will you next start whining that there are too many walkthroughts and all of them should be merged with yours? (Implying any living soul could take all that rant...) Let it be, you've heard the song, haven't you? Regards, ZaFlareStar 13/5/2010, 21:41
Rename the Page[]
Should we move this page to Magick (Ivalice)? The name Magick is also used for a spell in the 4 Heroes of Light. --Miphares (talk) 12:34, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
- Honestly, this page is unnecessary. It should be merged into Magic (term). Ivalice having its own naming-scheme isn't reason enough to be separate.
- But yeah, "Magick (Ivalice)" would be the correct destination. 92.24.164.75 15:15, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
- Support merging to Magic (term). Make this a disambig?Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:22, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
- Yup. 92.24.164.75 15:25, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
- Support merging to Magic (term). Make this a disambig?Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:22, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
I agree, moving this to the Magic (term) page sounds like a better idea. So then, are we good to go or should I place the Merge template and we get more input on this? --Miphares (talk) 23:55, February 18, 2013 (UTC)