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Gilgamesh: Enough expository banter!
This talk page is used for discussing improvements to the page "Magic (Final Fantasy VIII)". It is not the place for general discussion or sharing stories about the topic of this article.

I an unsure what would be the best way to do a list of spells so that all info is included (what enemies and draw points to draw from, what items to refine from, effect on junctioned GFs when cast in battle). (The table is just a copy-paste from [ [List of Final Fantasy VIII Spells]].) I thought of adding all the "spell boxes" (these things) but would it look awful then? The boxes predate the GF compatibility info being added to the wiki so it doesn't have that in it. Junction info is not needed on this page, but where to obtain and the GF compatibility thing would be in the scope of this article.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 04:14, November 27, 2014 (UTC)

I was actually just thinking the exact same thing as Kelt was (just over four years ago), and I have an idea: Rename this page to Final Fantasy VIII spells (so that this page is for more than just the Magic command), and then move the info from the individual spell pages' sections to subsections of this. Should be ok with everyone?--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 13:52, September 28, 2019 (UTC)

I don't like how the spell parent pages have more info on them than this here, but isn't Magic (Final Fantasy VIII) still the best name. It's okay to have a little bonus info. The Magic command has unique properties specific to being the Magic command!
FFVIII is unique that the spells are like their own entity, and not all spells can be used with the Magic command even (Selphie's special Limit Break spells are actually just magic spells like any other, you just can't get them from anywhere but her Slots). Other info to add for each spell could be Selphie's Limit yes/no and Rinoa's Angel Wing yes/no.
What if every spell had its own mini article rather than having 50 sections of one very long article? Could have an infobox with whatever form you think looks best, and then could have a little blurb in good spell to stock/junction or no, maybe only useful in the beginning but outclassed soon, maybe you can get it earlier than intended with some clever item grinding and refining, what the animation looks like, yes/no use through Rinoa/Selphie Limit Break, what enemies use it, and can reflect yes/no.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:12, September 28, 2019 (UTC)
Yeah that's why I think it's fine to name this "Final Fantasy VIII spells" instead of just being about the Magic command. I get the sense spells in VIII are treated like items in a way, so I'm fine naming the page in the same way.
I've actually got nothing against making each spell its own article, the only problem is that the articles could be too small (which would be bad for SEO). So I think it's best to try in a sandbox and see how big the article would be first before splitting.--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 20:21, September 28, 2019 (UTC)
It could be better for SEO! If you search "ffxv chrome bit" on Google you get all the wikis that made individual articles for all items and none of our Treasures (Final Fantasy XV).Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 20:29, September 28, 2019 (UTC)
Thoughts on the example? I think it's long, but manageable. I'm not against making individual pages though.--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 22:02, September 28, 2019 (UTC)
I side with making a page for each spell. They're part of a more complicated system, like Espers in VI. I'd still value a table view of Magic from a battle-ability perspective. We have places elsewhere to focus on spells from other perspectives (e.g. Junction system). JBed (talk) 01:02, September 29, 2019 (UTC)
If we do that, we just need to make it obvious on the table view on this magic page that there are pages for each spell that people can go to. Probably can do what the items list page does with the Refine column and just say "See here for main info" or something.
Since it's probably settled that we're making individual pages for them, I'll put an infobox together in a sandbox...--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 01:49, September 29, 2019 (UTC)
Late to this. I support the idea for each spell having its own page, since of the gameplay mechanics of each spell in the game and would help decrease the clutter on each spell's respective ability page to remove some of the FF8 related tables. --Miphares (talk) 01:58, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

I now have a prototype page listed at an example. Feel free to edit it to make adjustments and etc., or let me know if you want any tweaks to the layout and etc., but otherwise, should be good!--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 17:48, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

Looks good. Should also list the spell power, and link to/display the damage formula. Info in the infobox about what the spell refines into would also be useful. And might as well have a list of the enemies that use the spell.
Also I would mention Fire Cross separately, like in Trivia or the intro. It's not the Fire ability, it just looks visually the same. JBed (talk) 20:11, September 29, 2019 (UTC)
Made changes, hope that's good? List of enemies that use the spell would be difficult though, not sure how relevant that is to the player either.--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 20:39, September 29, 2019 (UTC)
We have a list of enemies that use the spells on Final Fantasy VIII enemy abilities. If it's relevant there, don't see why it wouldn't be on the pages about the abilities. In FFVIII, the spells enemies cast are literally the same spell that the player does (damage calculation/spell power). JBed (talk) 20:56, September 29, 2019 (UTC)
Hm ok. Where would it make sense to list this though?--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 21:18, September 29, 2019 (UTC)
Good template. Would change "Junction stats" to just "Stats" as yes would include enemies that use it. Could just list under "Use". And turns out there isn't even a list of what spells are susceptible to Reflect on the wiki, so I don't know then what spells those are. (Do spells through Slots/Angel Wing reflect?)Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 14:43, September 30, 2019 (UTC)
I think for now I'll go ahead and make the pages, and we can add the list of enemies that use them and any other details later. Having the pages out there will make it easier to make any adjustments as we go.
p.s. I was thinking of making pages for each individual materia in VII too, even though we'll probably need to make pages for all items when the Remake releases due to differences (as with XII) I think VII's materia deserve pages even in spite of that. Will have to start another discussion about that later...--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 20:30, September 30, 2019 (UTC)
Looks like we're going with using the Use sections to add the list of enemies that use the ability, for now at least. Am in the process of making spell pages now. Later on I'll propose things like making materia pages for VII and etc., and someone in Discord proposed the idea of making spell pages for XV and Type-0 due to variants, so we could discuss that.--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 17:58, October 1, 2019 (UTC)
Well I think the new pages look great. People will search "FFVIII where to get Aura" kind of questions and these pages are probably good for that.
Materia pages could be good because you could write more on what are good characters to give them to, and what kind of interesting links you could make with them with support materia. Info that you can't so easily include in a list page.
FFXV spell pages could be good because then you could put all items that result in that spell in crafting (if we can easily figure this out).
FFType-0 spells could be good for listing who can use them (because that depends on the character's personal magic stat) and...stuff (I forget stuff about this game!).Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 18:57, October 1, 2019 (UTC)
Thanks Kelt! And yeah, that's part of the idea, quicker response to search queries. I think this is also helpful for mobile readers especially, they probably have an easier time with smaller pages like these than trying to search through larger ones... And yeah agreed regarding pages for the other games, I may make a forum on it sometime later. Will definitely probably make materia pages though, but after finishing VIII's content I'm going to take a break before then doing location pages for VII in addition to spell pages.
I've now made spell pages for all of VIII's junctionable spells, and people are free to expand on them or let me know if I missed anything. Not sure if Apocalypse needs a page when the player can't junction it -- is it worth making one for that spell regardless? We can list the dummied stats there, I guess.--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 23:40, October 2, 2019 (UTC)
Apocalypse should have a page I think. It has junction stats though useless because it's only obtained past you being able to access the menu, but you can use it through Angel Wing even.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 09:24, October 3, 2019 (UTC)
Apocalypse has all the same Junction and compatibility details as other spells (even if the Junctions aren't used) so definitely deserves a page. I kinda want to give the Slots spells their own page because they are technically spells, although they obviously have a bunch of nulls and 0s for their junction and compatibility details.
I've found a tool that can read and modify stats from the kernel. It also has details on stats like Draw Resist, status chance, whether it penetrates Shell, and whether it can be reflected. Also, earlier I said that enemies use the player's spell-- and this is mostly true but there are also a few exceptions. Like there's an enemy version of Esuna that can't be reflected, and can't cure Petrify. Blitz uses versions of the Thunder trilogy of spells that can't be reflected, and also bestows a unique status (his Charged effect--don't know whether the status would work on anyone or if it's just a flag his AI interacts with). And there's a more powerful Ultima variant. I'll figure out who uses the variants and mention them after the "enemies that use" paragraphs. JBed (talk) 23:33, October 3, 2019 (UTC)

"inflict ... on"[edit source]

Reverted an incorrect change. The correct usage is "inflict damage on <something>". See https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/inflict

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