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Maduin is NOT Madeen[]
Maduin is a mistranslation of Madeen, they are meant to represent the same summon. So because they are basically the same summon, the two articles should be merged
--Nahald 17:40, 9 November 2006 (PDT)
- I second that motion.
- --MarioFanaticXV 03:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
- Whoa whoa whoa! Mog, the form Madeen took when protecting Eiko, is a Female. I think we can lay this one to rest.
- --Auron Kaizer 02:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Maduin is in fact NOT a mistranslation of Madeen. Two differences: One, Maduin is Non-Elemental, and Madeen is Holy. Second Maduin is Terra's father and a Gigas. Madeen disguised herself as Mog, Eiko's childhood guardian. Eiko also states "Someday, Mog and I will grow up to be fine ladies and wear our Ribbons!"
- --LuvLuv G2000 00:48, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
- Maduin is in fact NOT a mistranslation of Madeen. Two differences: One, Maduin is Non-Elemental, and Madeen is Holy. Second Maduin is Terra's father and a Gigas. Madeen disguised herself as Mog, Eiko's childhood guardian. Eiko also states "Someday, Mog and I will grow up to be fine ladies and wear our Ribbons!"
- Whoa whoa whoa! Mog, the form Madeen took when protecting Eiko, is a Female. I think we can lay this one to rest.
1. Same word in Japanese, which is supposed to be a take on Mael Duin.
2. Fenrir also has a different attack in IX. It's still Fenrir.
koku 03:43, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, in fact they are. They are both named "マディーン" in japanese - that's Madiin, pronounced in English as Madeen. They are both lionesque (one more so than the other, but the basic design is the same), and why should they have the same name and basic appearance if they are not the same basic summon.
-As for gender - so? Shiva is not the same being in each game (in FFX, for example, she used to be a person), but we admit that it is the same basic summon (or at least, summon template).74.140.118.84 08:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
- I agree. I want the merge
An Aeon and the fayth that represents it are not the same being, so Shiva didn't used to be a person in FFX. Shiva was an Aeon, a supernatural being given physical form through the joint "efforts" of a Summoner and Pyreflies. The "person", i.e. the Fayth, simply acts as a mediator of sorts providing the link between the summoner and the form the Fayth is representing. Long story short, your Shiva-argument is invalid. | |||
- So you are, in fact, claiming that the Shiva appearing in every incarnation in Final Fantasy is the same being? What about in VI? It certainly used to be human in that one. Shiva has a different personality in almost every game she is a character in!KrytenKoro 18:29, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
- Maduin and Madeen are one and the same. As 74.140.118.84 has reasoned perfectly. There's more than enough evidence for a merge.--Goldberry2000 18:33, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
- So you are, in fact, claiming that the Shiva appearing in every incarnation in Final Fantasy is the same being? What about in VI? It certainly used to be human in that one. Shiva has a different personality in almost every game she is a character in!KrytenKoro 18:29, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I see the point y'all are trying to make about the name translation... but something makes me suspect the ones in favor of merging haven't played that much of FFVI. I don't think the two should be merged, on the grounds that the name is all that they have in common.
-Madeen's role in the game is as a Summon.
-Maduin's role is as a character.
-Different elements.
-Different appearances.
-Different gender.
Other than the name, I see no evidence that they are or were intended to be the same creature/person. If the name were the deciding factor, then FFIX's Mog should be merged with the Mog from FFVI.
I agree. The merge is unneeded as there isn't enough proof for a solid connection other than name. Manduin and Madeen are both important characters that share very diffrent personalities and appearances. Manduin, being the father of the main character deserves his own article the same way Ject from X does. Also, I find the Shiva arguement very confusing as Shiva has actually remained the same since 3, when she first appeared. Shiva has always been a scantly clad woman, appearing to be in her mid twenty's, with blue skin, and power over ice. Ifrit too has stayed the same, being a fire based summon, demonic/animilistic in appearance, always well muscled, and sporting some horns. Contrarily, Madeen and Manduin differ in apperant age, in appearance, in gender, in the very basis of their attack, with one being Non-elemental and the other Holy. Even though Madeen may have been based on Manduin and may even be a diliberate nod back by the developers, they differ so greatly that merging their articles would be unneccesary and pointless. I do agree that a minor note should be added to both mentioning the apperant link, however it should be treated the same as all the other "nod backs" to the previous 2D games found in FFIX.~Ralis
I don't think they should merge for the above mentiond reasons. If we were to merge these two, we should also by the same logic merge all the Cid's into one catagory 'cause they all have the same name. kaerF
You mean like this page? Are You Serious 12:03, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Maduin is NOT Madeen II[]
I'm casting Rise on this topic. Madeen and Maduin share the same Kana so it's clear that Maduin was indeed a mistranslation of the Esper's name in the Japanese version of FFVI. I read somewhere (though I can't point out where so I won't use it as an argument) that Madeen's attack "Terra Homing" was actually a mistranslation of "Terra Forming" a probable reference to the one that formed Terra, Maduin. Thoughts? I think that at least a reference to Maduin should be included in this page. | |||
Methinks a merge is in order, I always thought it was suppossed to be Madiun and I know Terra Homing was supposed to be Terra Forming. Wouldn't be the first time square's translators have gone wrong *cough Aerith cough*... | |||
Uh, Terraforming is just a real term. Seeing as her name wasn't even Terra in Japanese, there's no way that was a reference to her. <_< That said, they're the same summon and this needs to be merged. | |||
Henryacores - "É que esta noite vou lançar ao mar/A bruma que houver em mim./Vou beber e cantar este luar/vou dançar até ao fim." TALK - 20:09, 3 February 2009 (UTC) | |||
EDIT CONFLICT Support. The names are originally and I can also confirm that I knew the fact about "Terra Homing" before. Well, just the fact that the name has Terra basically says it all for me. As of similarities, they both have skin\fur of close hue, they're both humanoid, one being more lionesque, the other being beastly. As of Element, don't forget Fenrir also changes its element, but it's always the same. Same with Diablos (He's non-elemental in VIII and has a dark affinity in XI). If Maduin was, let's say, Ice elemental in one game, and Holy elemental as he is in IX, there would be problems. But that's not the case. Madeen is Maduin. Seeing as her name wasn't even Terra in Japanese. Yeah right. SE didn't even know their precious Tina was localized Terra in the west. They just send their games and have us suit ourselves. | |||
I don't believe it. Madeen is Mog, who is a girl Moogle. Maduin is Terra's father, which makes him male where I come from. | |||
Shiva changes gender in FFXII RW, don't forget. | |||
Henryacores - "É que esta noite vou lançar ao mar/A bruma que houver em mim./Vou beber e cantar este luar/vou dançar até ao fim." TALK - 20:17, 3 February 2009 (UTC) | |||
EDIT CONFLICT What tells you that Madeen isn't an Eidolon that took the form of a girl moogle? I think that could be a choice, but seriously, I don't know much about the laws of transfiguration. | |||
Shiva changes gender in FFXII RW, don't forget. Lol, what. Perhaps you should play RW before saying something so silly. Shivar is a completely different entity, he doesn't become Shiva. This isn't Pokémon, the Espers don't evolve. Also, Shemahazai is a he in RW. All aboard the mistranslation train. I say seperate pages. As you yourself said Faethin, this is the English speaking Wiki, we shouldn't care about what the Japanese do. | |||
EDIT CONFLICT: Shiva isn't Shivar. Also, I thank God every day that FFIX is not Revenant Wings. Though Shiva is said to change gender on the Aeon wall. But that's just Shiva - based off an Indian God who is dual-sexed. Does that mean all Summons can change gender? And, there's no evidence to say that the Espers of FFVI can grow and/or lose penises at will. | |||
Cid Isn't even the same person/race/thing in every final fantasy and he does have all his pages merged. I can't understand why Madeen/Maduin wouldn't. Zak Undersn
- Because each game still refers to him as Cid, and doens't randomly change the spelling to Sid, Cyd, Syd etc. (Alright, Sid is used once). Diablocon 20:26, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
- Not even Cid's name is the same every game (Cidolfus appears twice). The only thing Cids share is that "vehicle thingey", and in some cases not even that. Maduin looks as a mistranslation of Madeen, or vice-versa, like Cid/Sid. Zak Undersn
I think that a link from Madeen to Maduin is the least we can do. I didn't mean to imply that we should merge the articles, just that the parent page of Madeen should include Maduin, kinda like "Midgarsormr" includes the Midgar Zolom and the Jormungand. | |||
Good enough. | |||
Edit Conflict- Definite no to a merge. One is a character page; the other is a summon page. Madeen can be mentioned on Maduin; but I can't get my head around Madeen linking to Maduin for summon details. ILHI 20:36, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Did IX even say that Mog was female, or just that Eiko considered "her" that way? The only line about Mog's gender I recall was "we'll grow up to wear pretty ribbons in our hair" or something. Though either way, Maduin/Madeen (because they ARE the same thing just as much as Cid, goddammit!) could have easily changed his gender when he changed his species... | |||
I haven't played FFTA2 myself, but according to the Summoner (Tactics A2) page, the holy-element summon "Madeen" is named "Maduin". Do we make Maduin (Summon), Maduin (Final Fantasy VI) and Madeen, or make Madeen the parent page? | |||
Hmm... I propose these solutions:
or
That way anyone searching for either names get their info. "You get what you seek", sort of. Merging might not be the only solution to all this, I think. Might I also add that there's a "Maduin Gear" armor in FFXII and RW? I don't remember other series, but there you go. | |||
Or we could make a disambig for one name, allowing the other to redirect. On this "The recurring summon" ("Madeen (summon)") -- "The character from Final Fantasy VI" (@"Maduin (Final Fantasy VI)" -- And anything else. Maduin (FFVI)'s page using ==As a summon== (or whatever title) -- {{main|Madeen (summon)}}. That sounds fine to me. ILHI 17:24, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
- How is the FFTA2 version different from the FFTA version? Also, considering the fact that the FFTA2 version, a Holy summon, is merged with the FFVI version, can't we just merge them to a summon article and a character article(s)? I mean, compare Shiva in FFVI to Shiva in FFU, that's a drastic visual difference. Or Exodus between FFT and FFXII. Between FFVI, FFT, and FFIX really isn't that much, comparitively.Glorious CHAOS! 13:30, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Madeen IS Maduin[]
Dissidia's "Maduin's Fang" accessory refers to the FF9 Madeen. So the Japanese names aside, here we have, in English, a case where Madeen is called Maduin. This, combined with what we've recently done with Midgardsormr.....yeah.
I think it's time we merge the two, the two are the same and we now have a case of Madeen and Maduin being used to refer to the same being. Like Midgardsormr and other summons (Quetzalcoatl comes to mind), just note the differences in naming at the top of the page. | |||
Drake makes a valid point. Additionally, we group them on the summons nav, Madeen from TA and Maduin TA2 are clearly the same thing, and their Japanese names are virtually identification. Defiantly merge Madeen into Maduin (since Maduin is the latest name). | |||