Talk:Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII)

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Archives April 30, 2007 - March 21, 2010

Naval piercing

Hi everyone. Did you know that Lightning has a belly button ring? I'm not sure if this counts as a credible source, but I thought it was a cool piece of info. http://www.1up.com/flat/Features/Cover_Stories/Final_Fantasy_XIII/FFXIII_poster_02.jpg 68.239.249.81 04:34, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Lightning does have a belly-button piercing. (The post above me has a better picture) If you pay close attention to her in the game, you'll see it in the CG cutscenes. I couldn't find a good picture on the web, but this was the closest one I could get:

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/826843/final-fantasy-xiii/images/final-fantasy-xiii-screens-20091217013845546.html?page=mediaFull

Zoom in on her stomach, and you'll see something shiny. And its not her belt because its on her bare skin. User:SquallRocks 10:28, March 21, 2010

This one has a slightly clear view of her piercing. look closely and pay attention to her stomach... Sorry idont know how to make pictures to links like what the one with the poster did.

Jejemon~Buster 13:51, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

There IS something shiny! You just should look at the picture while light are off.—Kaimi 21:54, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

In the End of Chapter 10 when Bahamut appears and Lightning talk to Fang you can see her navel piercing, too. (navel piercing can be seen at 4:44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzJrHvO1qzQ&p=66AEE1A0CA2B56A0) Cosmic Era 16:25, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

What is "Just call me Light" in English?

Just wondering how the English localization handles Lighting telling Hope and Fang to just call her "Light". -User:PanSola^{(talk/history)} 21:17, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

As it says. They call her "Light" in English too. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 21:52, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Wow I didn't expect that. Interesting... -User:PanSola^{(talk/history)} 23:07, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Height (Again)

Is there an official source that states her height as 177 cm/5'10", or was that pre-release conjecture?

I'm guessing that her height in English units was released as 5'10, which converts to 177.8 cm. So, someone probably saw the English height, converted it, forgot to round, and entered the data. Of course, the Ultimania always conflicts with another height... I really don't know. 8bit 04:10, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

8bit, has the Ultimania ever been wrong?, if so, I think we should have height's from the Ultimania and the one that says 5'10. Just my opinion though. :p Judge Balthier 00:06, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph

		HarpieSiren - "There's not a thing I don't cherish!" TALK - {{{time}}} - It's not heavy. It's... a memento
		We really should have Lightning's real name in the opening paragraph, because it's what we do for every other character what has an alias. Like Faris, Balthier, Edge, and Golbez. I know people are going to go "But it's spoilers." But it doesn't change the fact that we always put the character's real name in the opening paragraph

They are spoilers. I get what you mean, but this game has only been just released for a few weeks. When I came to this page, it pulled a serious spoiler in my face. I'm going to continue thinking of something else, so that other readers won't suffer my fate. --121.54.96.3 15:49, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

I say here what I said on the IRC yesterday about Galenth and ***** - wait a month or two until it isn't such a spoiler, then bring it back up. Doreiku Kuroofangu 16:01, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Light's "race"

Is it worth mentioning in Trivia that she's only playable female character that is not Oerban (Vanille and Fang are Oerban females).—Kaimi 19:18, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

It's not really notable when there's only three females, but that's just my opinion. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 19:39, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Well, it's a valid point. I don't really see the harm in adding it. I'd use "Pulsian" instead of "Oerban" though. Hatsune Miku 21:45, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Well, Since they became Pulse L'cie, I wonder would that technically make them "Pulsian"... -Zinos

My theory of Light's Crystal

I know that Square said why Light's crystal is rose, but here's my theory.
On Light's page, in Development section, is written "Early in development, Lightning's real name was going to be "Averia", referring to a species of flowering plants." Is it possible that rose-shaped crystal might be a kind of tribute to these flowering plants?—Kaimi 13:49, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

It's certainly plausible. The Rose-shaped crystal would make more sense if they kept her first name as Averia. Until I read what you said, I actually never thought of the connection between her original name and the crystal. A.J. two ^{(Smashboards)} 14:29, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

		Theultimatemage - No, I'm not a Red mage, What makes you think that??, call me a Red Mage, and I'll dualcast you to death!!! TALK - 6:50 pm. August 1, 2010
		Maybe it's a reference to Averia but a rose is similar to Lightning in many ways: 1)They're both beautyful and slender 2)As roses have thorns, Lightning has a kick-ass gunblade and a straightforward, cunning and independent personality 3)As roses are red, Lightning's hair is pink (a shade of red) and her cape is red.

before i found out her real name, i thought it was rose, i think it would 've been awsome if it was rose-(who do u do tildas?) ——Preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.176.233.84 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~.

She

she's beautiful i wish that she is alive coz I have a crush on her ^^

FF world

If I die can I go to final fantasy world just to see my Claire Farron?:-/

trivia section modifications?

There seems to be a conflict in the trivia section. The second bullet point reads "Lightning's facial structure has changed during development. In the early materials ... her eye color was blue, in her finalized picture, they are green.", while just a few lines later it goes on to say that within the game it fluctuates between the two. 66.153.109.109 17:25, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Name is spoilers

And therefore shouldn't be in the first paragraph, nor should it be in the storys section until it is revealed to the player. If you want to use other examples against me, they shouldn't either, so I'm just going to ignore them. As a XIII player, I came to this article to look for information about her weapons. This article also sucks because this article doesn't link to any of the stats. It's far from helpful.

Anyway, there's no argument for having the spoilers there- "but we have to", no we don't. Story sections should reveal things to the player when the game does. "Lightning reveals her real name to be "Claire Farron" to the party when *". We will then have problems with etym sections, but: we could make a show/hide spoiler that mentions that "spoilers include "Details about Lightning's real name follow". No one has to be spoiled unless they choose to. 88.108.138.209 15:16, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Comparing to Cloud

She's based on Cloud maybe, but you really can't compare her to him since she actaully is involved in the plot of the game... Cloud just is there... Cloud says within the first 10 mins of the game that he doesn't care for the world and at the very end he hasn't changed at all... His only character developements are finding out he wasn't in SOLDIER and caring for Aeris for a short while before she died.

		Theultimatemage - No, I'm not a Red mage, What makes you think that??, call me a Red Mage, and I'll dualcast you to death!!! TALK - 6:21 pm. August 1, 2010
		I think that she's based on Squall, Lightning is far more caring than Cloud, but she's too uncaring at the start of the game (Like Squall), the only thing that Light and Cloud have in common is that they were soldiers and that they are humans XD.

Earlier, when she was first announced as a character, it was stated that her design was based on Cloud; this is what the comparison should be refering to. Much in the same way that Paine is compared to Squall. Netherith 08:25, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Age of Joining the Military

This says that she joined the military after graduating high school. Episode Zero says here that she joined when Serah was still in middle school. In most schools I know of, the upper limit of middle school is eighth grade. Serah is only three years younger than Lightning, so that would have made Lightning a junior at the time, implying that she left school to join the Corps. This also seems more logical, since it would give her a way to support Serah. Wide Eyed Idealist 20:55, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I was in middle school in the 9th grade. —EGingell (T|C|F) 21:13, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Does it mean American school system or Japanese school system though?Keltainentoukokuu 21:14, August 26, 2010 (UTC)Keltainentoukokuu

EZ has only been released in Japan, right? So it's probably the Japanese system -- Sorceror Nobody  21:36, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

3rd Birthday

Should we mention that The 3rd Birthday will have a costume of Lightning. --BurstDragon 18:25, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Just so this is clear...

Just because someone else hasn't said this yet: I know that some people are in some sort of fanboyish stupor with the "announcement" of Dissidia Doudecim Final Fantasy, but please don't add anything about it to this page yet. We're still waiting on some concrete confirmation of this game's existence, so even though the scan clearly depicts Lightning as a playable character, don't add a section or a trivia mention. If the scan is, in fact true (which it's very well sizing up to be, but I won't say anything either way so as to avoid sparking speculation and subsequent arguments), then, when the appropriate time comes, information will be added. Thank you for your cooperation. Teamrocketspy621 02:36, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Was Lightning's Dissidia 012 description was in the magazine scan? --BurstDragon 13:28, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Protect?

When WoWWiki has a problem with people continually adding illegal, unconfirmed, alpha NDA stuff, or whatever, they protect the page so nobody else can readd or revert. I believe y'all should do just that. —EGingell (T|C|F) 06:55, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

It's no problem. We usually only use Protect as a consequence for edit wars. The editors seem to be playing nice so we'll leave the page open for the FF13 editors to continue their work. Netherith 08:42, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Weight

Anybody have a clue on how much she weighs?

You must be a male. ;p Doreiku Kuroofangu 23:17, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

She weights 900 pounds. People in the world of FFXIII are actually seven times the size of Earthlings. --BlueHighwind 23:37, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Who cares how much she weighs? Even if she does weigh 900 pounds, she's hot. P.S. 900 / 7 = ~128.5 Edit: Not as hot as the red-head, but still... —EGingell (T|C|F) 09:06, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

haha, well we know her height, might as well know how heavy she is too. And yes I'm male.

There are just some things you don't ask a lady. A gentleman knows those things. ;) Bluestarultor 03:51, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

who said to ask her directly, haha. I'm gonna guess and say 130 pounds.

How many other characters have their weights on the pages? Why make Lightning the first? In my book, all we need is her height.  TheBlueDragoon 20:34, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Other games show weight of characters, so there should be a weight listing for the lovely light.

Maybe she weighs as much as a normal human female? Yukkuri-chan 04:50, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

and that varies from woman to womanI would guess since her hieght is 5'10 i think she's be 105-110 pounds, she seems to have the average body of a model so thats what im guessing. Hope that helped ;3

Lightning has an extremely athletic fighting style. She may not be visibly buff, but she probably still has more muscle mass than a model. 174.92.64.95 06:36, March 27, 2011 (UTC)

Silly fanboyish answer: How much does sexy weigh? Lightning does have rather a lot of it, after all

Reality check answer: ...or maybe she weighs nothing, seeing as she's an image on a screen and thus a cluster of massless photons is all she's really made of. Seriously, people, get a grip -- Sorceror Nobody  09:06, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Does it really matter?? http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd362/KayRC/wikisig-2.png

Dissidia 012 artwork

Do you think Lightning doesn't suit her artwork pose in Dissidia 012? I can't understand her pose, actually.

Her arm seems stiff, and her legs ridiculously long and skinny, but other than that, I'm not quite sure what your issue is? --Adonzo 10:41, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

The long legs are because of the angle of the camera. It's a photo, not a scan. ׃ 12:11, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Also the FF13 developers made her less skinny in the CG but her legs were skinny in the original concept art, too. ׃ 12:13, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

It looked almost exactly how I expected it to look, although her arm wasn't sticking out. Koharu Nami 10:46, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Shy about physical proximity?

At the end of the Appearance and Personality section, the article currently makes the following claim: "Interestingly, Lightning seems slightly shy towards physical proximity outside of a combat situation, as seen when Fang asks to see how far her brand has advanced."

I always assumed that this was simply to do with Light's brand being... well, where it is. I daresay most women would be pretty shy about having their breast checked by a person they'd only just met physicians aside, obviously. More to the point, I can't think of any other instances of "shyness", whereas I can think of an occasion (shortly afterwards, in fact) where Light embraces Hope -- Sorceror Nobody  14:57, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah and she might not like other people looking at her brand anyway, as she isn't completely cool with the whole l'Cie thing. She is seen embracing Serah and Hope and leans against Snow's back at one point too.Keltainentoukokuu 17:12, October 20, 2010 (UTC)Keltainentoukokuu

Serah's okay since she's her sister anyway.... ^{a.k.a KayReeed} 13:43, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Aya Voice Actor

Lightning and Aya Brea from 3th Birthday share the same Japanese voice actor should it be mentioned in the Trivia section because Lightning does have an alternate costume as Aya.--BurstDragon 10:12, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

Do you think that Lightning has scars?

Being a soldier, I would assume that she has scars. However, in the CG arts and in-game she doesn't seem to have them. Or prolly covered in the black thingy on her left arm? Fang has them on the right arm. Hihihi. So do you guys think that she has? :D

Hm...yeah. There might be a few. ^{a.k.a KayReeed} 13:41, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Lightning has scars. In the CG arts has very thin scars in the knees (i talk about CG arts in high resolution)but in the game the scars are not seen. It is like the hanger, in the arts she does not have hanger but in the game yes.lightning505

Main Protagonist of FFXIII-2

Is this confirmed somewhere? While likely, maybe she is just shown first because she's the one we already know? Just thinking...Keltainentoukokuu 14:05, January 18, 2011 (UTC)

she is the protagonist. Mrmike336 14:41, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

now everyone knows. XD Clarent--(真愛找麻煩) 06:03, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

Lightning's relationship with Hope

		FFfangirl - "Gullwings, let's go!" TALK - 11:02 a.m., January 18, 2011
		At first, Lightning begins as Hope's mentor, showing him the ropes of combat. As the game develops, it's as though Lightning kind of sees Hope as a surrogate sibling in Serah's place, and as a result, did not want to repeat the mistakes she made with Serah when he tagged along with her. On the other hand, Hope can see her as a replacement mother figure even though she is young enough to be his older sister.

Lightning's birthday

On her Wikipedia page, it says the her birthday is May 13th and that the source is the Encounter chapter of Episode Zero. Is there anyway to comfirm this? User:FFfangirl 11:21 a.m., January 19, 2011

Episode Zero does not mention the date of birthday. Only says that it is one day after the fireworks. User:lighning505

New Outfit for Lightning is stunning.

She looks smoking hot in the new outfit.

Lightning´s sword

Does anyone know how the sword of Light measured? I need it for a Cosplay User:lightning505

They changed Lightning's XIII-2 appearance

In the first XIII-2 screenshots you could see her bare thighs but they gave her leggings now: [1]. .:. 10:08, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we can say it's changed or not going off of that image, since there's a horrible glade on it and her pose makes it hard to see the bare skin. HarpieSiren 10:51, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Her feathers are in the way and we can't see them clearly. If you watch the E3 trailers you can see clearly that nothing has changed. Koharu Nami 12:31, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

yeah nothing's changed, here's the higher quality image, you can clearly see her bare thigh.[2]

I don't think it matters that much...Clarent  (talk/ contribs) 22:24, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

It's really trivial indeed, considering how early this is to conclude anything. It's absolutely minor in comparison to Lightning's redesign between her first renders shown and her final appearace. - Henryacores^ 22:30, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

*nods* I don't think anything's been finalised yet... Clarent  (talk/ contribs) 22:32, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Well they've already started Lightning's new figure[3] so her design's been finalized to an extent.

Article Name

Evidence has been presented that unlike Edge (Final Fantasy IV) and similar characters, Lightning is not just a one-name alias. This evidence is largely that she's still referred to with her last name by other characters at points. The counterpoint has been raised that legally her name is still Claire Farron, and Lightning is just a codename/alias, not her actual name.

So, opinions on where to move the article to, if at all? Doreiku Kuroofangu 20:10, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Lightning is a codename. She's never referred to as Lightning Farron, ever in the FFXIII canon: It's either Lightning, Lieutenant Farron or Claire Farron. Never Lightning Farron. As such, we have absolutely no evidence on whether this is a full or single name alias.

And the tag issue is the worst argument ever. Lightning debuts in XIII, and XIII-2 is part of XIII's canon. See Aeon (Final Fantasy X). Sphere (Final Fantasy X) and Fiend (Final Fantasy X). - Henryacores^ 20:13, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

I personally just prefer a character article having a second name where possible. Because its a character article, and she has a second name.  Armageddon11!  20:18, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Why does this place have to be 100% canon? Her last name is Farron no matter what her first name is. Koharu Nami 20:20, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

"Why does this place have to be 100% canon?" - because we exist in a reality where what Square-Enix says about their games and characters (ideally) shouldn't be twisted to suit our own feelings and views on a website that should present the straight facts? Doreiku Kuroofangu 20:25, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

*facepalm* because canon, games, ultimanias are what we write our articles on and negleting it makes us a petty fanbase-managed website that doesn't give a shit about veracity and truth. - Henryacores^ 20:27, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Just because "Lightning Farron" is never stated in game doesn't mean she's not Lightning Farron. She still uses her last name, Farron. Koharu Nami 20:32, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

I say we put in her full name. I know I'll probably get mocked for it, but suppose someone's looking up spells and hasn't heard of XIII. They click on Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII) and get a woman with a sour personality. ♥Lightning Farron: I Will Defy My Fate!♥ 20:27, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

And Lightning never refers to herself as Farron. Other people do. Not conclusive. - Henryacores^ 21:12, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Why should that matter? Her last name is still Farron. What is so wrong with using it? It's not going against what we do since it's still her official last name. Koharu Nami 21:29, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

We're a wiki; we organize information the way that is most efficient or logical for us. Common sense can be a better judge than what is technically canon in some cases.  Armageddon11!  20:30, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

We're a fan site. We organize official information the way it is most efficient or logical for us to describe and detail the Final Fantasy series. Common sense is never better than what technically canon because we're a wiki about the canon of the series and not a fanon wiki. - Henryacores^ 20:40, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Some points: what is her name on the official website? What is her name in Dissidia? "Lightning vs. Firion", right? What do most fans of the game call her? Also, her real name is some kind of a spoiler, right? Wouldn't it be easier to keep it the way that is easiest to understand? Or is that making too much sense for a wiki? --BlueHighwind 21:31, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

"Farron" isn't really a spoiler, unless you think Serah being her sister is a spoiler. Which it obviously isn't.  Armageddon11!  21:46, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

The second Datalog entry for Light is pretty specific: "Wanting to outgrow the painful memories of her parents' death, she abandoned her childhood name to take up her current moniker. She retains her family name of 'Farron.'" Been mentioned on IRC, just putting it here -- Sorceror Nobody  21:44, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Happens that unlike Vanille, who is updated to Oerba Dia Vanille after her name is revealed, Lightning's never is. SE is fucking with us again. What does the Ultimania say about this by the way? - Henryacores^ 21:49, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Surely this is just a Shadow/Clyde Arrowny situation. We don't name his page "Shadow Arrowny". Of course, he doesn't use his surname, whereas Lightning does, but you can't mix nicknames with real names. It's either "Claire Farron" or "Lightning". Or "Claire "Lightning" Farron". Everything else is wrong. Unless she is ever referred to as "Lightning Farron", and I don't think she is. 79.69.199.129 23:00, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

"you can't mix nicknames with real names" - why not? Is this a rule? Is it written somewhere? Of course you can, if you choose to. Lightning is known by both her last name and "Lightning", so obviously she uses both names. Doreiku Kuroofangu 23:06, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

She uses both names, but not together. My name is "Jonathan Bedford", and I have the nickname "Jonny". I am also referred to as "Jonny Bedford" -- "Jonny" is recognised as a replacement to my first name. I also have the nickname "JBed". If I had an article on the FFWiki, should it be called "JBed Bedford"? I am never referred to as that, both names are never used together. My "JBed" alias replaces my entire name, not just my first name.

Lightning has two names she is referred to as, "Lightning" and "Claire Farron". While she doesn't use "Claire", Lightning is never seen as a replacement first-name, but a replacement name entirely. Tagging her surname to the end of her alias doesn't make sense to me.

"Lightning" and "Claire Farron" are interchangeable, not "Lightning" and "Claire". Or at least, they have never been officially known to be, and we are left to assume that "Lightning" replaces her full name. 79.69.199.129 23:17, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

The bit SN quoted proves you wrong. Lightning is a replacement to first name only not to full name. "Wanting to outgrow the painful memories of her parents' death, she abandoned her childhood name to take up her current moniker. She retains her family name of 'Farron.'" Straight from the game.Keltainentoukokuu 23:25, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

It is evident she retains her family name of "Farron" through "Lieutenant Farron". I don't think it explicitly says, or even implies that she changed her name to Lightning but bears her original surname after it. Personally, I would have thought SE would have called her "Lightning Farron" if "Lightning" was only intended to be a substitute first name. But the names have never been seen alongside each other. I don't have anything further to add, I just don't interpret that information as concrete evidence saying that she knows herself as "Lightning Farron". 79.69.199.129 23:34, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

It's said she uses both names right there in the bit SN quoted. Retains her surname Farron. So Lightning changed her name from Claire Farron to Lightning Farron.Keltainentoukokuu 23:11, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Datalog/People

"This former soldier was a member of the Guardian Corps, Bodhum Security Regiment. Last name: 'Farron.' She is known as 'Lightning,' but her true name is a mystery. "

"Lightning was formerly a sergeant in the Guardian Corps, Bodhum Security Regiment. Wanting to outgrow the painful memories of her parents' death, she abandoned her childhood name to take up her current moniker. She retains her family name of 'Farron.'"

"Lightning was formerly a sergeant in the Guardian Corps, Bodhum Security Regiment. Wanting to outgrow the painful memories of her parents’ death, she abandoned her childhood name ‘Claire’ to take up her current moniker."

Stated three times she retains her surname and stated in the third entry she abandoned her first name for the alias. I don't know what more you need. Doreiku Kuroofangu 23:35, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

"she abandoned her childhood name ‘Claire’ to take up her current moniker"

Having seen this, as it says "Lightning" is a replacement for "Claire" (i.e. first name)... and since she also "retains her family name". I agree, page should be moved. 79.69.199.129 23:39, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

JBed: Why Lightning is called "Lightning" only in the official material isn't because she wouldn't have a surname (because she does), it's a stylistic choice from SE's part. Like why is Madonna called just Madonna even if she has a surname. And royalty are referred to with title + first name only by some tradition. The question isn't whether Lightning Farron is technically correct or not (because it is) but how far do we want to go to retain SE's stylistic choice of omitting the Farron from her name. Which is a better article name: Lightning Farron or Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII). Both are cool by me, though I think tags should be avoided where possible and Lightning Farron is a good alternative when just "Lightning" isn't available. This is kind of ridiculous though because this has been the article name forever and only now it's suddenly an issue...Keltainentoukokuu 23:47, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Just because I choose to retain my surname "Bedford" does not mean that any name I may choose to be known by (e.g. JBed) becomes a "replacement first name".

But I'm content that SE are saying Lightning is a replacement first name now. And my belief is that we should use the fullest name possible. I mean, if something official came along and said that Cecil's middle name was "Gareth", we should move his article to "Cecil Gareth Harvey" regardless of whether anything official states his name is "Cecil Gareth Harvey" -- if his middle name is officially Gareth, then we know his full name and should use it.

I'm assuming a very similar situation happened with Rosa, I'm not at all sure though. 79.69.199.129 00:04, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I've been discussing this matter with Drake over the IRC and I'm still against the idea of moving the page. My main stance: we have no source in which she is referred to as "Lightning Farron". None whatsoever. Also, we have a very similar discussion regarding Balthier's name in which we decided to move away from "Balthier Bunansa" for that very reason. Fëasindë ^{te audio} 23:48, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

I have to agree with Fae on this one. If you can't show us something that makes it clear that she does actually go by Lightning Farron, we shouldn't say she does. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 00:57, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

I am obviously on this side too. The datalog info can be interpreted in a multitude of different ways. - Henryacores^ 01:01, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

"The datalog info can be interpreted in a multitude of different ways." - not unless you twist the words, since it says in plain black and white she abandoned her first name but kept the surname. Doreiku Kuroofangu 01:10, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

So Square Enix hasn't mention the words "Lightning Farron" together. That doesn't mean she's not Lightning Farron. Square Enix made Final Fantasy XIII. It's stated right there in the Datalog that her last name is still Farron. We don't need a source on this. It's ok if we use Lightning Farron because it's still official. Koharu Nami 01:19, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

I say use the real name. Makes more sense to me. Clarent  (talk/ contribs) 07:14, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

No wait, keep the article name (i.e. don't change anything) for now until things are more clear Clarent  (talk/ contribs) 07:17, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

But it's evidently clear she retains the surname "Farron", but dropped the name "Claire" in place for "Lightning". Because SE have never released anything that puts the names together doesn't mean they haven't stated her pseudo-forename is "Lightning" and she retains her surname "Farron". Surely you can work out from this that she has chosen "Lightning Farron" to be her used name?

The Balthier reason is different, because it's never implied that Balthier is only a replacement-forename. I'd assume it's an alias used to replace his entire name. Same with Shadow. The situation with Lightning clearly states that Lightning is a replacement forename. 79.69.205.111 13:17, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

The case with Balthier is a bit muddier anyway, because it seems in the world of FFXII only "posh" people have surnames and the commoners have just a first name. (Vaan, Penelo, Reks) So if he wants to be just nobody he would take a name with no surname anyway.Keltainentoukokuu 13:28, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

The simple fact is that comparisons with the likes of Shadow and Balthier are completely irrelevant, as they are not the same situation. They changed their names to create entirely new identities for themselves. Lightning's case is different; she changed her first name to somewhat distance herself from her birth name, but never to pretend it's not there at all. If viewed as a scale of name changes, Lightning is near the bottom, below KH's "Leon", and way below Balthier and Shadow at the top end of the scale.
As for the Datalog, seeing as that's the intended in-game information resource, it's pretty much as canonical as anything we're going to get. The only thing that can overrule it is if the Ultimania (or some other form of official statement, or later canon) explicitly states otherwise. By "explicitly", I mean that it's not enough for it to merely name her as just Lightning; it has to clearly state that it is absolutely not Lightning Farron -- Sorceror Nobody  16:38, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

Just dropping in my pair of pennies, but it's said within about the first half hour of the game that Farron is still her last name, since Snow mentions it prominently when she fails to introduce herself. Between the datalog and various mentions by other characters, it's crystal clear she still uses her last name. I don't see what the argument is here. She's listed as Lightning because Square wanted to emphasize that part of the name because of the story behind it, whereas everyone else either didn't have a story for their name or their name being revealed was itself central to their story. Lightning's original first name is an Easter egg and her last name isn't nearly as important as her current first name. She is Lightning Farron. "Lightning" is just emphasized for story purposes. Bluestarultor ^BSA 23:22, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

You know I wouldn't mind seeing the page renamed either. However to settle this argument isn't this a case of creating information, not providing it. As far as we've been given Lighting has never been printed with Farron as the surname. Although Lighting obviously uses her last name "Lighting Farron" has never been listed as alternative for the character. Furthermore the datalog which seems to be the only source supporting the idea states that she is just known as Lighting." which is subjective. At best it states this is what the character is called, not that Lighting is definately her first names. Moreover the first section of the datalog states the name Lighting is a monkier, which in case anyone forgot whilst able to refer to a person's name is more specifically another term for a nickname, or new alias often used to substitute a proper name and in definition of an alias a false name used to conceal one's identity. Noted my point is, if it doesn't state Lighting is her first name then there's no need to list it as such. We should understand that it is alias but not some legal document listed name change or at the least the wiki hasn't seen "Lightning Farron" as such. I've said my peace but does anyone agree? Outlaw630 10:23, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Well, "Lightning Farron" isn't a case of creating new information. It's a case of inferring it, and in canonicity terms, the Datalog is a reliable source because its sole purpose is to provide information. Now, you can interpret the Datalog differently, but what reason is there to choose any interpretation other than the face value (and thus most likely) one? The face value interpretation is that she is called Lightning but retains her surname, i.e. Lightning Farron.

I've also briefly looked into definitions, and nothing I've seen so far explicitly says that a moniker has to be a replacement for the whole name. As for your cited definition of an alias, that doesn't even apply to Lightning, as she isn't concealing her identity -- Sorceror Nobody  21:36, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

At this point I doubt anything is gonna happen. Debate has died down, no one agrees, at least one Admin opposes to yeah, nevermind. My contacts for the FF13 Ultimania never replied either, so...meh Doreiku Kuroofangu 21:40, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

The definition of Moniker as far as I've found is not the same as name, though it may encompass it: See [4]and [5]. Lest we fall into technicalities, I suggest we understand "moniker" simply as "the name you go by".

Now the issue here is not whether her last name is Farron nor whether she uses "Lightning Farron" as her full name". The issue here is the name of the article. We should name our articles in accordance to the way the character, according to the media, is meant to be named as much as the way the characters are supposed to be called in-game: that is the reason why we have Edge (FFIV) as well as Ashelia B'Nargin Dalmasca, instead of limiting ourselves to naming his page "Edward Geraldine" or, on the opposite case, to naming her page "Ashe".

Now my reasoning is the following: outside the game, the protagonist of XIII is consistently and universally (ie.literally all the time!) referred to as "Lightning" by the different media; this moniker as well is by far the most common way all other characters refer to her in-game. Why should we fabricate a name for the article, if there is already a way to call her which is basically used by everyone? We are fabricating the name because, however justified and accurate our reasoning may be, there is still no source that directly states her use of "Lightning Farron" at one point in the story. At all.

This is why I think the article should remain as "Lightning (XIII)" and not use as title her "full name". Yes, it is out of the question that her last name is Farron. Yes, it is likely, while being directly unconfirmed, that she thinks of her full name as being "Lightning Farron". But that doesn't mean that is the best name for this page. I believe we should follow every other convention we've seen regarding the way XIII's protagonist is called and keep this page as "Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII)". Fëasindë ^{te audio} 22:24, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

If it helps anyone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouWl9INVUtY&feature=related at about 6:00, Snow says "she goes by 'Lightning'. Last name's Farron." We do not have an official source for "Lightning Farron" tied together, though... 8bit 23:50, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

EDIT CONFLICT: The thing is, really, NONE of the protagonists go by full name normally, much the same as normal people. They introduce themselves by full name once at most and then it's all on a first-name basis. At that same time in the game, Lightning is introduced with her last name. It's just done by Snow, and he uses a more creative sentence structure. So while, no, "Lightning Farron" is never uttered, forgive me, but demanding a strict word order is borderline pedantic when she has a canon name first and last, especially, as demonstrated by 8bit, when there's only a few words in between. If this was any other character, no one would think twice about it. James Bond is recognized as James Bond despite his catch phrase, and many characters don't introduce their name in proper block order but are recognized without a hitch. This is an argument over a stylistic issue, rather than a canonical one, and we're not creating a thing. We're addressing a canonical concern rationally.

Regardless of whether or not it gets changed to a canonical name based on word order, there should be a redirect for the losing name of this argument. Bluestarultor ^BSA 00:16, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

EDIT: And for that matter, if we can't call her Lightning Farron, how the heck do we get off on Rosa Joanna Farrell when the name Joanna is never even mentioned in-game? We clearly favor canon over dialogue. Bluestarultor ^BSA 00:22, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

All characters of FFXIII have their full names on the Datalog entry title. Lightning's "Lightning".

See Joanna Farrell. Also, Rosa is no alias, so there's no issue whatsoever with her name. - Henryacores^ 00:26, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

The medium overrules the game where the game is not explicit: Cecil / Cecil Harvey. The game overrules the medium where the game is explicit: "Wanting to outgrow the painful memories of her parents' death, she abandoned her childhood name to take up her current moniker. She retains her family name of 'Farron.'" 8bit 01:43, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

That's not what he's saying. She's not called "Rosa Joanna Farrel" in anything regarding FFIV but the novelisation. And the novelisation doesn't state her name is "Rosa Joanna Farrel", but states that her middle name is "Joanna". Since we know her first and last name, we can clearly piece together her name is Rosa Joanna Farrell (knowing Rosa is her first name, and Farrel her surname) thus her page name. If in some form of media, it is said that Cloud's middle name is Rudiger, then his page would be moved to "Cloud Rudiger Strife". His name doesn't need to be stated somewhere official as "Cloud Rudiger Strife", we know it's his official middle name, we can put it in his name.

Lightning is definitely her used first name, she definitely retains her surname. It doesn't need to be given by SE together, we know it is correct. 79.69.201.180 21:58, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

What's your position, 8bit? I agree with Faethin totally. Let this dumb issue die down already. Or should someone move all this to a forum and continue it? Clarent  (talk/ contribs) 06:00, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

Okay..to my understanding this argument is getting nowhere at all. Clarent  (talk/ contribs) 05:23, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand why this is still being discussed her name is NOT Lightning Farron, it is Claire Farron and if we were to to change the article name it should be to either to that as it is her REAL name or left as is as that is the name she mainly goes by in the game. This whole stupid naming thing should have never been questioned in the first place as she was never once referred to as Lightning Farron and if you ask me this argument is meaningless and pointless and should no longer be discussed. Xion V. 23:27, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

You obviously haven't read the discussion so far -- Sorceror Nobody  15:10, June 28, 2011 (UTC)

Actually I did read the ENTIRE FRIGGIN THING, so maybe you shouldn't comment on something that someone else wrote if it does have something to do with the argument and does make sense. Thank You Very Much! Xion V. 03:38, July 10, 2011 (UTC)

Since I'm bringing this discussion back to light, it's about time I replied to you on that point.

If you have read the whole discussion, you'll know that the whole "never explicitly referred to as Lightning Farron" argument has been addressed. Repeatedly. If you have a different argument to make, go ahead -- Sorceror Nobody  19:00, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Well..do "Lightning Farron" but put "(Claire)" in on top of the infobox like Edge's?Clarent  (talk/ contribs) 09:21, July 10, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, raking over the coals here, since it never did get properly resolved, and I'm seeing links being changed, so I want to head this whole thing off asap, one way or the other. I'll just sum up who's on what side, as far as I can tell; if I put you on the wrong side, please do indicate where you should be:

• Move to Lightning Farron: Sorceror Nobody, Bluestarultor, Keltainentoukokuu, JBed, 8bit BlackMage, Drake Clawfang, Koharu Nami, SilverCrono, MystRay, Razordash (10)
• Keep as Lightning (FFXIII): Henryacores, Faethin, Some Color Mage, Xion Valentine, Yuanchosaan (5)
• Move to Claire Farron: Phoenixfeather13TheSecond (1)
• Neutral/Unclear: Outlaw630, Armageddon11 (2)
• God knows: Clarent, BlueHighwind (2)

It should be noted that several of these users have not contributed to the discussion for a number of posts, making their current position less certain (hence the invitation to protest any incorrect groupings), and that there are relatively few core argument points at play -- Sorceror Nobody  19:00, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

I'm for moving to Lightning Farron Koharu Nami 19:05, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

SC and Myst have told me on IRC that they're pro-move -- Sorceror Nobody  19:16, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

I'll go with Lightning Farron. Technically even if it is wrong, everybody knows her by that Name. There's not much wrong with leaving it as it is either, but in my opinion Lightning Farron is more appropriate. Of course this is just my opinion, but I don't see much wrong in some of the other arguments either. Razordash23:51, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Wait, what is "God Knows"?http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd362/KayRC/wikisig-2.png 00:44, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

In BH's case, it's partly due to him being BH; also, his sole comment has been struck out, and I have no idea what that's all about. In your case, it's because your apparent position has been totally inconsistent. In particular, you agreed with Fae, and then with no developments whatsoever in the discussion, changed your mind and picked Lightning Farron. Once you make up your mind and settle on one side or the other, we can list you on that side -- Sorceror Nobody  11:43, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

*bump* Since I've reminded myself about this issue, I'd just like to address one particular point of Fae's by using reasoning much like his, but applying it to Rosa:

"Now my reasoning is the following: outside the game, the main love interest in IV is consistently and universally (ie.literally all the time!) referred to as "Rosa" or "Rosa Farrell" by the different media; her first name as well is by far the most common way all other characters refer to her in-game. Why should we reconstruct her full name for the article, if there is already a way to call her which is basically used by everyone? We are constructing the name because, however justified and accurate our reasoning may be, there is still no source that directly states her use of "Rosa Joanna Farrell" at one point in the story. At all."

...yeah, I've wanted to say that for a while. Just hadn't gotten around to doing it -- Sorceror Nobody  09:38, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Why not Lightning (Claire Farron)? It includes her real name and her alias AmbieSushi To think that mother would prefer Sephiroth over... 13:00, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'd call spoilers, but the wiki doesn't care as evidenced in the first line. I suppose using two names in the pagename just isn't what we do. 79.69.196.232 13:05, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Just throwing my two cents in, I personally approve of the move because Lightning Farron makes her sound like her owwn unique character rather than just a version of a recurring theme--ShadowsTwilight

22:50, November 17, 2011 (UTC)

Gravity Bomb

Re: edit

Seems to me that the Gravity Bomb idea led to the anti-gravity device referred to by Fang as "the gizmo" Final Fantasy XIII Walkthrough Part 78 Chapter 12; it releases expanding blue-black energy spheres that can greatly reduce the falling speed of the user and push objects and people aside. VvAnarchangelvV 03:45, October 17, 2011 (UTC)