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Gilgamesh: Enough expository banter!
This talk page is used for discussing improvements to the page "Jessie Rasberry". It is not the place for general discussion or sharing stories about the topic of this article.

Cissnei being Jessie isn't completely outrageous. With FFVII's graphics, it could be. It would make sense if SE decided so.  ILHI 16:12, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

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It has more use on Cissnei's page. Cissnei's real identity is unknown. Jessie's alternate aliases don't matter. Cissnei having no real name leads to fan-theories, whereas nothing about Jessie does.  ILHI 16:16, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

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y not?  ILHI 16:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

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y? He was a passerby who added a common fan-theory which makes minor sense I just realised I don't actually care.  ILHI 16:24, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Flashback[edit source]

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Jessie's voice actor[edit source]

Who is Jessie's (and for that matter Biggs's and Wedge's) voice actor? Cloud and Barret have correctly been identified as their previous talents, and the narrator was David Lodge, but hers remains unidentified.--yoshiyuki17 Aug 30, 2016

Clarify for me?[edit source]

That was probably a really silly decision... Leaked information isn't allowed here, is it? Regardless, it's been confirmed in several bits of dialogue. ColdRamenTPM (talk) 08:08, January 5, 2020 (UTC)

No leak infos please. There's really no good way to put sources on that.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:29, January 5, 2020 (UTC)
We're prohibiting leaks, partly due to what Kelt said, and also due to legality. Square Enix hasn't revealed this information yet, so we will not. When they release it publicly, feel free to move it back.--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 15:47, January 5, 2020 (UTC)
Unlike other leaks this stuff is actually verifiable. The files were publically available from an official source. I assume they aren't now, but if we had a copy we could mine this stuff.
Not that I disagree with our policy, but even if we don't upload anything now, I think it might be a good idea for people to save the images. A lot of them are obviously from in-development. Once the game's released it might make good content for Development sections. JBed (talk) 16:22, January 5, 2020 (UTC)
We can definitely include information about the leaks in Development sections once the game is released, as there are multiple outlets we can cite as sources. The images should still not be uploaded, though, due to legal concerns. We can't possibly claim fair use on an image Square Enix would never want to have released to the public, and would have likely taken down. That said, I will double-check with full-time staff (who are mostly out for the holidays) to confirm if this is the case or not.--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 16:51, January 5, 2020 (UTC)
Thank you so much guys. Sorry for the impulsive move. ColdRamenTPM (talk) 19:01, January 5, 2020 (UTC)
No worries! It's an easy mistake to make.--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator (TC) 19:06, January 5, 2020 (UTC)

Extra "No promises" dialogue & survival hints[edit source]

I want to add this, which has been overlooked both in the wiki's compilation of the script and on Jessie's page - if Cloud talks to Jessie twice before leaving for Reactor 5 after choosing "No promises" to her date invitation, she tells him to hurry back so her home-cooked pizza won't get cold. This implies that her interest and invitation were, in fact, real.

https://i.imgur.com/Ika1GkD.jpg

Also, it should be noted that her glove being on the dresser is a possible hint that she may still be alive thanks to the defeat of the whispers and fate being changed. Other hints exist in that same shot as well and should be pointed out - the flowers on the desk being Star of Bethlehem, which are a symbol of hope, and three different pens/pencils in the cup - one is a pencil, yellow like Wedge's shirt, another is a gray and red pen that echoes Jessie's armor and headband, and the third is a red pen like Biggs' headband. In addition, the arrangement of everything in that shot - the glove, headband, the cup with the pens, the flowers, the dresser, and the window - fits the kanji "omoi" exactly. This kanji has, among its many meanings, "hope" and "expectation". All of these things taken in combination, along with the red feather in Jessie's gun (like a phoenix feather, a symbol of rebirth and restoration), point to the strong possibility that Jessie is in fact alive and will return.

https://i.imgur.com/TU92shz.png

Since I've phrased it as a possibility rather than a certainty, there shouldn't be any harm in allowing it to remain on her page. That possibility does exist and should be pointed out on Jessie's page.

71.79.34.141 21:02, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

The script page is open to being edited, and we definitely need to add missing lines like that. There are quite a few lines that we weren't able to get. Does she say that after the "Words of encouragement? Thanks, I need them" thing?
That said, all the line implies is that she did intend to invite him over to hers — that in and of itself does not confirm whether her affections are real or not. Same thing with the kanji symbol; that's way too speculative to include on the page. Listing it as a possibility or not doesn't change the fact we can't add unsourced information to pages.Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator TC 01:46, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes, she says that if you talk to her again after that. But logically, she wouldn't have made a genuine invitation if her feelings weren't real, not with the way she made it and how she clearly wanted to be alone with him as shown by her saying that her roommates would be out (and doing so in a flirty, interested way rather than a plain, friendship-style approach). And being a caring person - it's what her official profile says she is and what her actions show - she wouldn't play on his emotions and string him along like that. You have to look at the totality of her character, not just what Wedge said - and keep in mind his own character as well. He's not the brightest bulb around, and he's basically badmouthing her behind her back when he's supposed to be her friend. That should be taken into account as well. Making Jessie out to be this deceptive, superficial tease diminishes her as a character and runs counter to the caring, selfless nature she's otherwise shown to have.

As for the kanji, did you see the image I linked to here? The match is a perfect fit. But even without that, the presence alone of the glove is a possible hint that she's alive, and that should be noted there on her page. It shouldn't be stated as fact that she's dead when it's not known for certain. We never actually saw her on screen (the floor where she last was) when the pillar went up, nor the other side of the room Biggs was in during the ending. And with the Whispers being defeated and both Biggs and Zack seemingly alive when they weren't in the original game, it means Jessie could be, too.

I just would like the possibility that she's still alive to be acknowledged on the page, is all. As I said, the glove's presence alone is enough to get people to think that, and SE has to know that. I'd also like it acknowledged on the page that her feelings could be real without making it seem like Wedge's words are being given more deference than Jessie's own actions and character.

Also, it says on her page that she's going behind Tifa's back with her pursuit of Cloud, but the game never gives any indication that Jessie knows Tifa may be interested in him. So that shouldn't be on the page. And Biggs never said she was frequently turne down for roles, so that should be removed as well. He simply said she worked hard and eventually caught a break.——Preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.79.34.141‎ (talkcontribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~.

Protected the page temporarily: when you take a discussion to a talk page, a consensus needs to be established there first before the page is edited in order to prevent edit wars.
The page does not make Jessie out to be a "deceptive, superficial tease", it only points out that Wedge believes it's a game to her. Beyond that, it is not the role of the wiki to read further into whether her feelings are legitimate or not, only to describe how she's presented in the game: she looks to be extremely into Cloud, but Wedge tells the audience it is a game.
Likewise, it is not the role of the wiki to point to fan theories, no matter how convincing they may be to us. "This could be a hint that, thanks to the defeat of the Whispers, her fate was changed and she's still alive" is still wild speculation even if I don't disagree with it. It is entirely possible she is still alive, but it is not our job to point this out, only to represent what happens in the game.
However, I am open to small rewording in those paragraph or minor additions if you feel they do not represent her personality too well. Ultimately, the goal of the personality section is to describe the character as thoroughly as we can in as concise a way as possible. One thing I could do is remove the first reference to Wedge believing her feelings are an act and only keep the second, so as not to make it a running theme, or we could more thoroughly describe her romantic interactions with Cloud before mentioning Wedge's thoughts as a separate sentence. Like, "Jessie has apparent romantic feelings for Cloud, frequently gushing over him," <explain other interactions here>, "However, Wedge implies it is all a game to her.[8]"
I reworded the thing about Jessie's romantic rivalry with Tifa, because while I think the statements I pointed to strongly imply that's what it is, you can read into them in a lot of ways, so we shouldn't take a firm stance. Can reword it further, though, but it's still worth mentioning. Updated the point about Biggs' comment also: it may be obvious what he meant, but it's true that it's not stated outright in the game so it shouldn't be there. And I added the comment to the script page. Now it's on there, that can be mentioned on the page with a citation to the script to show that her invitation was genuine...Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator TC 16:05, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
Ok, I made the mentioned reword above, and also included the thing about her offer to Cloud being genuine as a footnote, so it's not too wordy on the page. Hope this is all good... Do you happen to know what Jessie's line to Cloud is if you talk to her again but didn't answer "No promises"?Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator TC 16:17, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

She doesn't have an extra line if you don't choose "No promises", it's only if you make that choice. And as for pointing out the possibility that she's still alive, the speculation isn't wild, it's logical. But that aside, we're never actually shown her body after the collapse, and as Biggs was left in a similar state of apparent death in the pillar only to show up alive later, it leaves open the possibility that the same could happen with her. We weren't shown the floor where she was at the moment that part of the pillar went down, either.

It can be noted on the page that her death was never visually confirmed after the pillar, only assumed by Cloud and the others after they attempted to go back and find her, Biggs, and Wedge later. Just as Wedge's was never visually confirmed either since his body was never shown. The page can note that her fate is not certain because of this and the presence of her glove (and possibly headband, though that could just as easily belong to Biggs) in the ending as well as the other side of the room in that scene not being shown. And also, the part talking about her "death" can be reworded to say "apparently succumbs to her injuries" instead of just "succumbs to her injuries."

So in the part where it mentions her glove and headband, it could be reworded into something like this:

"After Cloud and friends defeated the Whispers and escaped Midgar in "Destiny's Crossroads", Jessie's gloves and presumably her bandanna were on the desk beside a bed with a recuperating Biggs. However, the other side of the room was not shown, and neither was her body at any time after the plate collapse. The floor where she was during that incident wasn't shown at the time the pillar came down, either. Nor was the debris from that part of the pillar ever shown. Her apparent death was never visually confirmed after the plate collapse. Because of all this, the presence of the Whispers at the time of her seemingly fatal injuries, the Whispers' eventual defeat, and the presence of her items in the ending, Jessie's fate and whether she is dead or actually still alive remains uncertain."

That's simply stating what's seen and not seen in the game itself without theorycrafting while still acknowledging that her fate and death aren't certain, especially if this rewrite is done in combination with the revision I mentioned just before that (adding "apparently" before "succumbs to her injuries.")

Yes, go ahead and remove the first reference to Wedge's comment, as it only needs to be mentioned once. And make sure it's clear that it's simply his belief and that it might not necessarily be true. I wasn't saying that the page makes her out to be a deceptive tease, I was just upset about the introduction of doubt into the authenticity of her interest and how I feel it demeans her - but I know that doesn't come from the wiki, it's what SE did, though I don't know why they'd sabotage her like that. So yes, more thoroughly describe her romantic interactions with Cloud before mentioning Wedge's comment with the caveat that it's only his belief and might not necessarily be accurate.

Also, Biggs never said she was unsuccessful, and he never said she didn't get any roles at all before the Princess. He simply said she worked hard and eventually caught a break. So she might've had smaller roles prior to that, as to get top billing, she would likely have had to have already performed multiple times in other parts and shows and be experienced.

In addition, how many people actually read footnotes? The comment I pointed out and how it shows her offer was genuine should be in the main body of the section to guarantee as many people see it as possible since a lot of them might never have seen it in game because they only talked to her once or not at all. It's a comment that's very easy to miss in the game so it should be given as much attention as possible here so people know it was said and exists.

She had to also have been part of Barret's Avalanche cell for longer than just a month because they all talk about their separation from the main Avalanche group, which according to the dialogue was a year before the game. So she was with the group at least that long, if not longer - it's never definitely said in-game exactly how long. 71.79.34.141 17:29, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

I never really interpreted it as demeaning when I first co-wrote that page (I love Jessie! I always thought it was an interesting quirk to speculate that), but I understand how the doubt was implied a little too strongly, so I've done as suggested — feel free to suggest any specific changes to what's now on the page.
I think the thing about the floor of the plate not being shown and etc. is a little too wordy, but I've said that no body was found and so she is only presumed dead rather than confirmed dead. Any more details would have to be in a footnote.
We could speculate how many people read footnotes (which show up on mouseover btw), but the goal of them is to further justify a claim while still allowing the main body of text to be concise. I think it's worthwhile adding extra confirmation that her offer is genuine, but it doesn't need to interrupt the sentence.
Amended the thing about the Gold Saucer past — good catch...
The thing about Avalanche's cell is a good catch also. Directly contradicts the Ultimania. I'm gonna put a footnote in there to clarify that too.
Let me know if there's anything else.Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator TC 18:52, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

I didn't know footnotes showed up when hovered on, I guess it can work like that. Could the extra details about the floor of the plate not being shown, etc. be added as footnotes then? And a slight revision - "her body was never found" would be inaccurate because she had to have been found one way or the other for her items to be on the dresser (they're too firmly secured on her to have come off on their own). So instead, it could say "her body was never shown" instead. The rest is fine. And thanks about the catches, I happened to noticed those when I was reading through it again and thought I'd mention them. Also, there's only one of her gloves shown in the ending, not both, so "gloves" should be "glove" instead. 71.79.34.141 19:11, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure we need to add anymore details, but I amended it now. Hope you liked the page — it was the first of our new character pages where we've been trying to amp up quality using script page citations and etc. (the big pages haven't been written in this style yet because they take a lot more work, though they will be before year's end). And again, let me know if you catch anything else!Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator TC 19:16, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

If the extra details are in a footnote, though, it would help further explain the uncertainties around her fate and why they exist without messing up the flow of the page. I do like the page, though. It looks good and is very informative. There was one other thing I noticed - her hair, if you look at her character model in any 3D program or render generated from one, is actually more a reddish-brown (auburn, maybe) than simply brown. It's the lighting in many scenes in the game that makes it seem darker sometimes than it actually is. But she's definitely at least a partial redhead.

Oh, and she does make Cloud smile on at least two other instances besides the escape from Reactor 1 and slapping Wedge's bottom, though it's not as noticeable since they're much smaller. But he does do so when he thanks her for giving him the healing materia in Sector 8 and just before he picks her up to carry her into the bar. If you watch his mouth during those moments, you'll see it - it moves up, including the corners, while his expression softens just a bit. The smiles are faint, but they're there.

And "The next day, Jessie was attacked by Whispers, who injured her leg, and thus she was unable to help in the bombing of Mako Reactor 5; Cloud took her place." could be reworded to say "The next day, Jessie was attacked by Whispers, who injured her leg, and thus she was unable to help in the bombing of Mako Reactor 5; Cloud took her place and agreed to raise some hell for her." instead, illustrating the growth of their friendship and how he had warmed up to her by then. 71.79.34.141 19:28, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Glad you like it, and I just made the changes as suggested.Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator TC 20:55, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! Oh, and I just saw this and thought it could be noteworthy, maybe put it in the development section or something - in this new interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYLeXxNWIZ8), Jessie's VA Erica Lindbeck says she believes Jessie's interest in Cloud is completely real as well as her wanting to reach out to a guy she can see is withdrawn and a bit sad and make him smile. Erica says this at about 21 minutes into the interview - it's an answer to one of the questions she's asked. 71.79.34.141 22:01, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

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