Talk: Jessie Rasberry

Cissnei being Jessie isn't completely outrageous. With FFVII's graphics, it could be. It would make sense if SE decided so.  ILHI 16:12, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

		AJDurai - A puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny. TALK - What use is {{{time}}} if you're not gonna use it?
		If the Shuriken (Female) page mentions that "Some fans theorize" she is Jessie.... wouldn't that also apply to this article? Or are you being fooled into thinking that really matters! >;3

It has more use on Cissnei's page. Cissnei's real identity is unknown. Jessie's alternate aliases don't matter. Cissnei having no real name leads to fan-theories, whereas nothing about Jessie does.  ILHI ^{16:16, 1 April 2009 (UTC)}

		AJDurai - A puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny. TALK - What use is {{{time}}} if you're not gonna use it?
		So you might wanna explain the latest revision! >;3

		Deadlyslashsword - +I love getting to let loose!.+ TALK - 16:20, 1 April 2009 (UTC) - Silly boy...are you going to cry?
		It shouldn't be there.

y not?  ILHI ^{16:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)}

		Deadlyslashsword - +I love getting to let loose!.+ TALK - 16:22, 1 April 2009 (UTC) - Silly boy...are you going to cry?
		Look at the page's history.

y? He was a passerby who added a common fan-theory which makes minor sense I just realised I don't actually care.  ILHI ^{16:24, 1 April 2009 (UTC)}

Flashback

		TheSirLaguna - I speak with passion, from the heart! That's what matters most. TALK -  The SirLaguna  17:19, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
		In Elmyra's flashback where she goes to the train station to see if her husband is there, Jessie and Biggs are there possibly celebrating Biggs' return from the war. Shouldn't that be mentioned in the article?

		Keltainentoukokuu - OH YEAH AWESOME TALK - Keltainentoukokuu 17:37, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
		I don't think they are old enough to be them. They just used their character models.

Jessie's voice actor

Who is Jessie's (and for that matter Biggs's and Wedge's) voice actor? Cloud and Barret have correctly been identified as their previous talents, and the narrator was David Lodge, but hers remains unidentified.--yoshiyuki17 Aug 30, 2016

Clarify for me?

That was probably a really silly decision... Leaked information isn't allowed here, is it? Regardless, it's been confirmed in several bits of dialogue. ColdRamenTPM (talk) 08:08, January 5, 2020 (UTC)

No leak infos please. There's really no good way to put sources on that.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:29, January 5, 2020 (UTC)

We're prohibiting leaks, partly due to what Kelt said, and also due to legality. Square Enix hasn't revealed this information yet, so we will not. When they release it publicly, feel free to move it back.-- Technobliterator (^T_C) 15:47, January 5, 2020 (UTC)

Unlike other leaks this stuff is actually verifiable. The files were publically available from an official source. I assume they aren't now, but if we had a copy we could mine this stuff.

Not that I disagree with our policy, but even if we don't upload anything now, I think it might be a good idea for people to save the images. A lot of them are obviously from in-development. Once the game's released it might make good content for Development sections. JBed (talk) 16:22, January 5, 2020 (UTC)

We can definitely include information about the leaks in Development sections once the game is released, as there are multiple outlets we can cite as sources. The images should still not be uploaded, though, due to legal concerns. We can't possibly claim fair use on an image Square Enix would never want to have released to the public, and would have likely taken down. That said, I will double-check with full-time staff (who are mostly out for the holidays) to confirm if this is the case or not.-- Technobliterator (^T_C) 16:51, January 5, 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much guys. Sorry for the impulsive move. ColdRamenTPM (talk) 19:01, January 5, 2020 (UTC)

No worries! It's an easy mistake to make.-- Technobliterator (^T_C) 19:06, January 5, 2020 (UTC)

Extra "No promises" dialogue & survival hints

I want to add this, which has been overlooked both in the wiki's compilation of the script and on Jessie's page - if Cloud talks to Jessie twice before leaving for Reactor 5 after choosing "No promises" to her date invitation, she tells him to hurry back so her home-cooked pizza won't get cold. This implies that her interest and invitation were, in fact, real.

https://i.imgur.com/Ika1GkD.jpg

Also, it should be noted that her glove being on the dresser is a possible hint that she may still be alive thanks to the defeat of the whispers and fate being changed. Other hints exist in that same shot as well and should be pointed out - the flowers on the desk being Star of Bethlehem, which are a symbol of hope, and three different pens/pencils in the cup - one is a pencil, yellow like Wedge's shirt, another is a gray and red pen that echoes Jessie's armor and headband, and the third is a red pen like Biggs' headband. In addition, the arrangement of everything in that shot - the glove, headband, the cup with the pens, the flowers, the dresser, and the window - fits the kanji "omoi" exactly. This kanji has, among its many meanings, "hope" and "expectation". All of these things taken in combination, along with the red feather in Jessie's gun (like a phoenix feather, a symbol of rebirth and restoration), point to the strong possibility that Jessie is in fact alive and will return.

https://i.imgur.com/TU92shz.png

Since I've phrased it as a possibility rather than a certainty, there shouldn't be any harm in allowing it to remain on her page. That possibility does exist and should be pointed out on Jessie's page.

71.79.34.141 21:02, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

The script page is open to being edited, and we definitely need to add missing lines like that. There are quite a few lines that we weren't able to get. Does she say that after the "Words of encouragement? Thanks, I need them" thing?

That said, all the line implies is that she did intend to invite him over to hers — that in and of itself does not confirm whether her affections are real or not. Same thing with the kanji symbol; that's way too speculative to include on the page. Listing it as a possibility or not doesn't change the fact we can't add unsourced information to pages. Technobliterator ^T_C 01:46, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes, she says that if you talk to her again after that. But logically, she wouldn't have made a genuine invitation if her feelings weren't real, not with the way she made it and how she clearly wanted to be alone with him as shown by her saying that her roommates would be out (and doing so in a flirty, interested way rather than a plain, friendship-style approach). And being a caring person - it's what her official profile says she is and what her actions show - she wouldn't play on his emotions and string him along like that. You have to look at the totality of her character, not just what Wedge said - and keep in mind his own character as well. He's not the brightest bulb around, and he's basically badmouthing her behind her back when he's supposed to be her friend. That should be taken into account as well. Making Jessie out to be this deceptive, superficial tease diminishes her as a character and runs counter to the caring, selfless nature she's otherwise shown to have.

As for the kanji, did you see the image I linked to here? The match is a perfect fit. But even without that, the presence alone of the glove is a possible hint that she's alive, and that should be noted there on her page. It shouldn't be stated as fact that she's dead when it's not known for certain. We never actually saw her on screen (the floor where she last was) when the pillar went up, nor the other side of the room Biggs was in during the ending. And with the Whispers being defeated and both Biggs and Zack seemingly alive when they weren't in the original game, it means Jessie could be, too.

I just would like the possibility that she's still alive to be acknowledged on the page, is all. As I said, the glove's presence alone is enough to get people to think that, and SE has to know that. I'd also like it acknowledged on the page that her feelings could be real without making it seem like Wedge's words are being given more deference than Jessie's own actions and character.

Also, it says on her page that she's going behind Tifa's back with her pursuit of Cloud, but the game never gives any indication that Jessie knows Tifa may be interested in him. So that shouldn't be on the page. And Biggs never said she was frequently turne down for roles, so that should be removed as well. He simply said she worked hard and eventually caught a break.——Preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.79.34.141‎ (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~.

Protected the page temporarily: when you take a discussion to a talk page, a consensus needs to be established there first before the page is edited in order to prevent edit wars.

The page does not make Jessie out to be a "deceptive, superficial tease", it only points out that Wedge believes it's a game to her. Beyond that, it is not the role of the wiki to read further into whether her feelings are legitimate or not, only to describe how she's presented in the game: she looks to be extremely into Cloud, but Wedge tells the audience it is a game.

Likewise, it is not the role of the wiki to point to fan theories, no matter how convincing they may be to us. "This could be a hint that, thanks to the defeat of the Whispers, her fate was changed and she's still alive" is still wild speculation even if I don't disagree with it. It is entirely possible she is still alive, but it is not our job to point this out, only to represent what happens in the game.

However, I am open to small rewording in those paragraph or minor additions if you feel they do not represent her personality too well. Ultimately, the goal of the personality section is to describe the character as thoroughly as we can in as concise a way as possible. One thing I could do is remove the first reference to Wedge believing her feelings are an act and only keep the second, so as not to make it a running theme, or we could more thoroughly describe her romantic interactions with Cloud before mentioning Wedge's thoughts as a separate sentence. Like, "Jessie has apparent romantic feelings for Cloud, frequently gushing over him," <explain other interactions here>, "However, Wedge implies it is all a game to her.[8]"

I reworded the thing about Jessie's romantic rivalry with Tifa, because while I think the statements I pointed to strongly imply that's what it is, you can read into them in a lot of ways, so we shouldn't take a firm stance. Can reword it further, though, but it's still worth mentioning. Updated the point about Biggs' comment also: it may be obvious what he meant, but it's true that it's not stated outright in the game so it shouldn't be there. And I added the comment to the script page. Now it's on there, that can be mentioned on the page with a citation to the script to show that her invitation was genuine... Technobliterator ^T_C 16:05, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Ok, I made the mentioned reword above, and also included the thing about her offer to Cloud being genuine as a footnote, so it's not too wordy on the page. Hope this is all good... Do you happen to know what Jessie's line to Cloud is if you talk to her again but didn't answer "No promises"? Technobliterator ^T_C 16:17, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

She doesn't have an extra line if you don't choose "No promises", it's only if you make that choice. And as for pointing out the possibility that she's still alive, the speculation isn't wild, it's logical. But that aside, we're never actually shown her body after the collapse, and as Biggs was left in a similar state of apparent death in the pillar only to show up alive later, it leaves open the possibility that the same could happen with her. We weren't shown the floor where she was at the moment that part of the pillar went down, either.

It can be noted on the page that her death was never visually confirmed after the pillar, only assumed by Cloud and the others after they attempted to go back and find her, Biggs, and Wedge later. Just as Wedge's was never visually confirmed either since his body was never shown. The page can note that her fate is not certain because of this and the presence of her glove (and possibly headband, though that could just as easily belong to Biggs) in the ending as well as the other side of the room in that scene not being shown. And also, the part talking about her "death" can be reworded to say "apparently succumbs to her injuries" instead of just "succumbs to her injuries."

So in the part where it mentions her glove and headband, it could be reworded into something like this:

"After Cloud and friends defeated the Whispers and escaped Midgar in "Destiny's Crossroads", Jessie's gloves and presumably her bandanna were on the desk beside a bed with a recuperating Biggs. However, the other side of the room was not shown, and neither was her body at any time after the plate collapse. The floor where she was during that incident wasn't shown at the time the pillar came down, either. Nor was the debris from that part of the pillar ever shown. Her apparent death was never visually confirmed after the plate collapse. Because of all this, the presence of the Whispers at the time of her seemingly fatal injuries, the Whispers' eventual defeat, and the presence of her items in the ending, Jessie's fate and whether she is dead or actually still alive remains uncertain."

That's simply stating what's seen and not seen in the game itself without theorycrafting while still acknowledging that her fate and death aren't certain, especially if this rewrite is done in combination with the revision I mentioned just before that (adding "apparently" before "succumbs to her injuries.")

Yes, go ahead and remove the first reference to Wedge's comment, as it only needs to be mentioned once. And make sure it's clear that it's simply his belief and that it might not necessarily be true. I wasn't saying that the page makes her out to be a deceptive tease, I was just upset about the introduction of doubt into the authenticity of her interest and how I feel it demeans her - but I know that doesn't come from the wiki, it's what SE did, though I don't know why they'd sabotage her like that. So yes, more thoroughly describe her romantic interactions with Cloud before mentioning Wedge's comment with the caveat that it's only his belief and might not necessarily be accurate.

Also, Biggs never said she was unsuccessful, and he never said she didn't get any roles at all before the Princess. He simply said she worked hard and eventually caught a break. So she might've had smaller roles prior to that, as to get top billing, she would likely have had to have already performed multiple times in other parts and shows and be experienced.

In addition, how many people actually read footnotes? The comment I pointed out and how it shows her offer was genuine should be in the main body of the section to guarantee as many people see it as possible since a lot of them might never have seen it in game because they only talked to her once or not at all. It's a comment that's very easy to miss in the game so it should be given as much attention as possible here so people know it was said and exists.

She had to also have been part of Barret's Avalanche cell for longer than just a month because they all talk about their separation from the main Avalanche group, which according to the dialogue was a year before the game. So she was with the group at least that long, if not longer - it's never definitely said in-game exactly how long. 71.79.34.141 17:29, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

I never really interpreted it as demeaning when I first co-wrote that page (I love Jessie! I always thought it was an interesting quirk to speculate that), but I understand how the doubt was implied a little too strongly, so I've done as suggested — feel free to suggest any specific changes to what's now on the page.

I think the thing about the floor of the plate not being shown and etc. is a little too wordy, but I've said that no body was found and so she is only presumed dead rather than confirmed dead. Any more details would have to be in a footnote.

We could speculate how many people read footnotes (which show up on mouseover btw), but the goal of them is to further justify a claim while still allowing the main body of text to be concise. I think it's worthwhile adding extra confirmation that her offer is genuine, but it doesn't need to interrupt the sentence.

Amended the thing about the Gold Saucer past — good catch...

The thing about Avalanche's cell is a good catch also. Directly contradicts the Ultimania. I'm gonna put a footnote in there to clarify that too.

Let me know if there's anything else. Technobliterator ^T_C 18:52, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

I didn't know footnotes showed up when hovered on, I guess it can work like that. Could the extra details about the floor of the plate not being shown, etc. be added as footnotes then? And a slight revision - "her body was never found" would be inaccurate because she had to have been found one way or the other for her items to be on the dresser (they're too firmly secured on her to have come off on their own). So instead, it could say "her body was never shown" instead. The rest is fine. And thanks about the catches, I happened to noticed those when I was reading through it again and thought I'd mention them. Also, there's only one of her gloves shown in the ending, not both, so "gloves" should be "glove" instead. 71.79.34.141 19:11, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure we need to add anymore details, but I amended it now. Hope you liked the page — it was the first of our new character pages where we've been trying to amp up quality using script page citations and etc. (the big pages haven't been written in this style yet because they take a lot more work, though they will be before year's end). And again, let me know if you catch anything else! Technobliterator ^T_C 19:16, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

If the extra details are in a footnote, though, it would help further explain the uncertainties around her fate and why they exist without messing up the flow of the page. I do like the page, though. It looks good and is very informative. There was one other thing I noticed - her hair, if you look at her character model in any 3D program or render generated from one, is actually more a reddish-brown (auburn, maybe) than simply brown. It's the lighting in many scenes in the game that makes it seem darker sometimes than it actually is. But she's definitely at least a partial redhead.

Oh, and she does make Cloud smile on at least two other instances besides the escape from Reactor 1 and slapping Wedge's bottom, though it's not as noticeable since they're much smaller. But he does do so when he thanks her for giving him the healing materia in Sector 8 and just before he picks her up to carry her into the bar. If you watch his mouth during those moments, you'll see it - it moves up, including the corners, while his expression softens just a bit. The smiles are faint, but they're there.

And "The next day, Jessie was attacked by Whispers, who injured her leg, and thus she was unable to help in the bombing of Mako Reactor 5; Cloud took her place." could be reworded to say "The next day, Jessie was attacked by Whispers, who injured her leg, and thus she was unable to help in the bombing of Mako Reactor 5; Cloud took her place and agreed to raise some hell for her." instead, illustrating the growth of their friendship and how he had warmed up to her by then. 71.79.34.141 19:28, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Glad you like it, and I just made the changes as suggested. Technobliterator ^T_C 20:55, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! Oh, and I just saw this and thought it could be noteworthy, maybe put it in the development section or something - in this new interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYLeXxNWIZ8), Jessie's VA Erica Lindbeck says she believes Jessie's interest in Cloud is completely real as well as her wanting to reach out to a guy she can see is withdrawn and a bit sad and make him smile. Erica says this at about 21 minutes into the interview - it's an answer to one of the questions she's asked. 71.79.34.141 22:01, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Growing up with Biggs & Wedge

Jessie grew up with Biggs and Wedge, that's of course established in-game in the remake. But I was just trying to figure out the logistics of it since Jessie's house - and presumably, where she was raised and grew up - is on the plate. So how could she have also grown up with Biggs and Wedge in the slums? It just seems like SE decided that without taking the time to figure out exactly how it was supposed to work with them being in separate places. 71.79.34.141 23:46, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Uncertainty over her death

I restored the text acknowledging the uncertainty of Jessie's death since that was removed, and it was text that had been mutually agreed upon by me and you. Please let it stay, because her fate is not as certain as it seems. 71.79.34.141 00:52, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Presumed dead. Anything else is baseless speculation that does not belong on a wiki.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 00:55, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

The text was previously agreed to here, if you'll look at the above discussion, and should be restored. Her death is NOT certain, and that should be reflected on the wiki. And it's NOT baseless - there are many things that point to it, though I'm willing to allow that they don't need to be on the page. Simply the admission that her death is NOT for certain is enough. Her body/grave was NOT shown after Chapter 12, nor was any other visual confirmation given that she's dead. Until a body or grave is shown post-Chapter 12 or someone who actually saw it confirms it, Jessie is NOT necessarily dead. She was not shown at the very moment the pillar came down, nor was the location where she was last seen.

And her glove showed no sign of fire or impact damage. It was dirty, but it was intact. If it had been in the fire, the metal backing would've been all that was left, and it would've been scorched and blackened. It wasn't. And if she had been crushed, the metal backing would've been flattened and bent. It wasn't. The glove is whole, meaning that it's possible she wasn't even in the pillar when it came down, that someone (possibly Yuffie and Sonon) got her out while Cloud and the others were on top fighting the Turks. I'm not asking for that to be on the page, but the fact that her glove is completely undamaged should be included. It's a relevant point proving that her fate is uncertain.

There are too many possibilities allowing for her survival to dismiss them. And remember, the whispers intervened with her but not President Shinra, a clear difference in their fates, suggesting that hers could be changed. Also, Rufus came back from apparently dying in an explosion in the original, so if it can be done for him, it can be done for her. Please restore the text and admit her death is NOT certain. That her body was never shown post-Chapter 12 is factual, not theorycrafting. The same with the uncertainty about her fate that it implies. That uncertainty is a fact, especially in light of the whispers' involvement and the ending, and deserves to be clearly stated on her wiki page.

In short, the page should acknowledge that her glove is undamaged, neither she nor her location were ever shown at the moment of the plate collapse, her body was never shown post-Chapter 12, and her fate is uncertain. Those are all facts and deserve a place on her page.

71.79.34.141 21:18, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

The page should just say what happens in the game and that's it, so just mention her gloves and bandanna, and then one can make their own interpretation on what that means.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 21:16, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Except that her glove IS undamaged - that HAPPENS. And her body ISN'T shown post-Chapter 12, nor was her or her location shown at the very moment the pillar fell. Those things HAPPENED in the game. They are FACTS. Therefore, they deserve to be on her page along with what they show, that her fate is uncertain. The only way for her death to be certain is for her body/grave to be shown post-Ch. 12 or someone who saw it say so. Anything else leaves room for a different outcome and thus, uncertainty. Or did you forget that Rufus came back from seemingly dying in an explosion? 71.79.34.141 00:39, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

The difference is Rufus was confirmed alive by the time the wiki was around. Jessie's status of being alive is not confirmed anywhere in the game, not even official guidebooks mention her possibly being alive at the ending. For now, we'll just mention her glove and banadana being near Biggs, and that's it. No need to continue this, you need to understand the wiki is dedicated to putting official information revealed for the community to have, not baseless fan theories that are meant for community or YouTube discussion videos. Please learn to accept this fact. Miphares (talk) 01:05, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

They don't mention it because they can't say either way. And it's NOT baseless. There's a very real chance she's alive/had her fate changed. Otherwise nobody would be talking about it. Her fate is UNCERTAIN. And Rufus was originally NEVER confirmed alive until AC, but because there was a way to bring him back, they did. Just as there's a way for Jessie to return. It is a FACT that her body/grave was NEVER shown post-Chapter 12. That IS official information. It is a FACT that neither she nor her location in the pillar were ever shown at the very moment it came down - we never even saw the pillar itself come down or its ruins later on (the game carefully kept us from seeing both). This is OFFICIAL INFORMATION from the game itself. It is a FACT that her glove is undamaged - it is not a blackened, charred mess (as if it had been in a fire) or bent and flattened (as if it had been crushed). This is OFFICIAL INFORMATION seen in the game. It's dirty, but UNDAMAGED. ANYONE can see that. It's a simple, logical deduction that because we did not actually see those things, Jessie's fate CANNOT be confirmed. And as for the guide books, ABSENCE OF CONFIRMATION IS NOT CONFIRMATION. And those same books (and the game) don't deny the possibility of her survival, either. You need to acknowledge that. Or you have no respect for her character or her fans. Acknowledgement of her fate's uncertainty was previously agreed to by me and Techno, and that agreement needs to be honored.

SHOW ME where her body/grave was shown post-Chapter 12. Show me where we actually saw her or her exact location on the 13th floor at the very moment the plate came down. SHOW ME where we actually saw the pillar itself collapse and the pillar ruins. SHOW ME the glove burnt to a crisp and flattened out of shape. You can't, because NONE of those things were shown. That means that Jessie's fate CANNOT be confirmed or presumed and is UNCERTAIN. Because NONE of these was shown. This is a FACT.

71.79.34.141 15:47, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

The article does not say that her death is confirmed, so nothing there really needs changing or adding.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 16:09, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Consensus (the only "agreement that needs to be honored" on the wiki) changes all the time, and right now consensus points to "presumed dead, unconfirmed". The article right now lists everything we know: she apparently succumbed to her injuries, her gloves and bandana were found by Biggs. Anything else is unnecessary information and we can let the reader piece it together themselves.

p.s. With all due respect, including caps lock every few words isn't exactly convincing and it's better to wait until a future part to change the article.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 16:15, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Then the consensus is wrong. She can't be presumed anything, because no visual confirmation was given post-Chapter 12. She swooned out just like Biggs did, so that's hardly conclusive, especially since we see him alive in the ending. And all the things I mentioned are right there in the game, if you'd just admit it and quit avoiding addressing them here - her body/grave wasn't shown post-Chapter 12, we never saw her or her exact location at the very moment the plate came down (just like Biggs, by the way, and this is important because in the original game, we saw Rufus in the fire of Diamond Weapon's attack), we never saw the pillar come down, we never saw its ruins, and her glove was completely intact and undamaged. Dirty, but not burnt or crushed. Those are all things that are in the game and deserve to be mentioned on her page. I will not stop until this is done. And if the consensus is that her death is unconfirmed, her page should specifically say that exact thing. If you can state on Katie's page that her fate is unknown, you can do the same for Jessie. Oh, and it's not necessarily Biggs who found her glove (and the bandanna might be his) as he was in no condition to do so. More likely someone else put it there. 71.79.34.141 18:55, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

'sup Jairus

How does that address the issue or anything I said? 71.79.34.141 16:13, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

To reiterate, the wiki is governed by consensus, and the consensus is to not add this as it borders on speculation. Find consensus for a new addition to the page or it will be reverted again.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 22:35, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

How does it border on speculation when it's a fact her fate is uncertain? What is so wrong with having it say on her page after the note about the glove and headband (which might belong to Biggs and not her), "Because of this and other things, her death cannot be confirmed at this time, and as a result, her fate is uncertain." You said yourself it was unconfirmed. This is simply saying what you yourself pointed out. And you still haven't addressed the points I brought up - it's not speculation that her body/grave wasn't shown after Chapter 12, it's fact - can you show me where they were? It's fact that we never saw the pillar come down or its ruins - can you show me where we did? The pillar specifically, and not Sector 7 in general. Because how it came down would affect her chances of surviving it if she wasn't gotten out prior to that. It's a fact that her glove was undamaged and intact, just dirty - can you show me the blackened, charred mess? The bent and flattened metal plating that would've indicated she was crushed? I didn't think so. All of those things are facts and deserve to be included on her page. Like I said, I'm going to keep pressing this until the uncertainty about her fate is clearly and specifically acknowledged on her page without any chance of it being removed again unless SE gives some kind of official confirmation. You made changes for me before without waiting for anyone else to chime in. You can do it again. 71.79.34.141 00:29, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Well—again, with all due respect, since you've made some pretty good contributions in the past—the transparent admission that you intend to keep pushing a personal agenda irrespective to community consensus or the purpose of the wiki (i.e. which is to provide facts, and not lend credence to speculation) makes it extremely difficult to take any further edit warring or additions of the same line to the page in good faith. The page right now has all the information.

You're welcome to add any information on the items of clothing being undamaged or etc., or if you can find anything for Behind the scenes about popular speculation (read: from credible sources) then go ahead and put it there, but we won't be adding speculation to the history section.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 00:51, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

It is NOT speculation. None of it is. How many times do I have to tell you? You said yourself her "death" is unconfirmed. What is wrong with saying that exact thing on her page? And what it means, that her fate is uncertain? If something isn't certain, it needs to be pointed out as such. Not simply alluded to with the mere hope that readers can piece it together. But laid out there for all to see. The page doesn't have all the information because it doesn't specifically, exactly say that her "death" is unconfirmed and that her fate is uncertain. Until it does, that won't change. I'm sorry about what I said concerning pushing this, I'm just frustrated because these are simple facts that you won't even address in here, let alone put on the page. They are not speculation. They are observations direct from the game itself. Not just that her glove was undamaged, but also that we never saw her or her location at the exact moment of the plate collapse, we never saw the pillar go down or its ruins, and we never saw her body/grave after Chapter 12. Those are all facts, not speculation. Why can't you understand this? If her "death" is unconfirmed, which it is, then by definition her fate is uncertain and unknown, which can and should be included in the history section. 71.79.34.141 02:15, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Another thing. I added "seemingly" to the caption about her last moments because her death is unconfirmed (as you yourself have said). This means that nothing about it should be stated with any certainty. You need to abide by your own words. Please allow this change, along with the others, to stand. They are stating observable facts, NOT speculation. You have yet to show, in specific detail, what exactly is speculative about any of the things I listed.

"After Cloud and friends defeated the Whispers and escaped Midgar in "Destiny's Crossroads", one of Jessie's gloves (which was dirty but intact and undamaged), and her bandanna, were on the desk beside a bed with a recuperating Biggs. Because of this, as well as the fact that she was never shown after Chapter 12 one way or the other to verify her status (among other things), her death is unconfirmed and her fate remains uncertain."

Please tell me exactly what is speculative in that text. Tell me where she was shown after Chapter 12 one way or the other. 107.174.244.102 03:41, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm going to reiterate that the edit warring, refusing to engage constructively (i.e. accusing those who disagree of "having no respect for the character or her fans"), disregarding consensus against the proposed changes (consensus being that the edit borders on speculation) are the reasons the changes here were not accepted. Ban evasion is not going to change this.

That you have said you will not stop edit warring until your specific version of the page stays the way you want it makes it extremely challenging to take any further contributions in good faith. Engage constructively with other editors or do not be surprised when your edits are rejected.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 04:00, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

You STILL have not not explained HOW what I said borders on speculation. You said yourself her death is unconfirmed (which, I might add, was made even more so by Kitase's evasiveness when asked at the FF7R event yesterday if Jessie was still alive). That alone means her fate is uncertain. And you also said the fact that her glove was undamaged could be included. Yet you still remove it, going back against your own words. Understand that the more you dig in, the more it causes me to do the same. You want me to back down, you need to do it too and show some willingness to see my point of view and admit what I'm saying may not be as speculative as you think. I'm asking you to show me in exact detail what you think is speculative about factual things taken directly from the game and quit avoiding providing such an explanation.

What is speculative about the FACT that we never saw Jessie or her body after Chapter 12?
What is speculative about the FACT that we never saw Jessie or her location at the moment of the plate collapse?
What is speculative about the FACT that we never saw the pillar itself come down?
What is speculative about the FACT that we never saw the pillar ruins?
What is speculative about the FACT that Jessie's glove was undamaged and intact?
What is speculative about the FACT that the Whispers intervened in her supposed death but not President Shinra's?
What is speculative about the FACT that the Whispers' defeat affected Midgar in some way?
What is speculative about the FACT that we never saw the rest of the room Biggs was recovering in?

Please answer those questions.

And you can add this to whatever section is appropriate (it's about Kitase's response to the question about Jessie being alive): https://twitter.com/NoriyukiWorks83/status/1373643359483527186

Keep in mind that I didn't even list most of those things in my changes to the page, only that she was never shown post-Chapter 12 - a change you yourself agreed with before. We were given NO confirmation of her status after the plate collapse. NOTHING can be assumed or presumed concerning her supposed death, and NOTHING about it should be described with any certainty, including the caption for that screenshot. Hence the world "seemingly" that I added. Because we DON'T know for sure. So it's wrong to lay things out as if we do. I'm not trying to cause problems, I'm just trying to get you to understand. If you can't say for sure whether she's alive or not, neither should her page. It should reflect the uncertainty that the game itself established.

Jessie's fate is unconfirmed and uncertain. And her page should say that exact thing.

195.206.105.217 15:29, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

It is not a good idea to write that something is "unconfirmed" to an encyclopedic wiki. Anyone could just add whatever under a clause like that. Who's to say what is true, it is "unconfirmed". If something new is confirmed in, say, intergrade or Part 2, then let's add it.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 19:51, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Except that what I said is true. Jessie's "death" is unconfirmed, as Techno himself pointed out. If something is not known for absolute certain, such as Jessie's supposed death, the wiki should not treat it as if it is but should clearly and openly acknowledge that it hasn't been verified yet. Phrasing something as a certainty when it clearly isn't is both inaccurate and dishonest. The uncertainty about Jessie's fate needs to be openly and specifically laid out. If the wiki can say Katie's fate is unknown, it can say Jessie's is uncertain. 176.10.99.200 20:08, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Gonna try to remain civil here, but I suggest you watch how you act when speaking to other members of the site, you're being rude and especially childish with all the cap lockings and tone in the way you react to not getting what you want. Please try to speak with us in a more civil manner. You've made decent contributions to the wiki, don't toss it away. This is coming from someone who is also dedicated to the "defending of the waifus" cause lol.

Anyways, as to the recent Play interview, Kitase simply responded among the lines with "I cannot say" and covered his mouth. While I admit this is something similar to what Yoshi P does when we have questions and know something possibly ahead of time of revealing, it is not proven as concrete until it is answered in games or official sources. As of now, the best possible solution to this would be to keep the history section the same for now. FOR NOW, reading this carefully, FOR NOW. Things could change with Intergrade and future parts, and we will change it to reflect that revelation when the time comes.

However, in the "Behind the scenes" sections, with the recent Play interview with Kitase (being an official source) we can now add possibly add something new stating the following:

Due to Jessie's glove and bandana being near Biggs during the events of the remake's ending, Jessie's fate has remain one of the biggest question among fans of the game. When participating in a PlayStation Play interview on March 21, 2021, Kitase was asked about Jessie's fate after the the events of the game. Kitase replied that he could not say anything currently, and simply covered his mouth playfully after giving his response to fans.

Miki's Trash Ideas

I don't know, Techno or Kelt can possibly have some good ideas also. Then after that we put in our sources, and leave it just at that for now. That's why you're happy, we're happy, and we can all move on with our lives until Intergrade comes out where we question why there are two Clouds now at the end of Intergrade. Miphares (talk) 20:13, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

It's unconfirmed that the world of FFVII isn't an island in the Pacific Ocean. Sure, that probably sounds like bullshit to you, but hey, the FFXIII storyline ended in Paris, and FFXIII draws a lot of ideas from FFVII, so if I really wanted to I could probably cook up some essay about how FFVII clearly takes place in the real world, and since Yoshinori Kitase has never said that it hasn't, it's unconfirmed and we better put that in every story page about FFVII!

The point is that what someone thinks is vague enough to be unconfirmed is very subjective, and so it isn't our place to say that some statement about the series is unconfirmed. But once you open the floodgates to letting people say that "X is unconfirmed" you open the floodgates to people pushing for whatever goofy fan theories they feel like pushing for. If a fan theory has been discussed by a Square Enix staff member, or has so much traction in the community that its fame is notable in its own right, then one may mention it in the Behind the Scenes section, with appropriate citations. So Miphares has a pretty good idea, that we'll probably go ahead with if nobody wants to reword it.

See Project:Notability and Project:Verifiability for guidelines on when something can be included in an article; in particular, the idea that the burden of proof is on someone adding something to an article. If the wiki community finds the supposed "proof" inadmissible, then it's no proof at all. If you think these policies need to be changed, then you should take it up with the community as a whole, though I definitely cannot promise you that you'll convince anyone.

We describe Jessie's death scene as "apparent", because that's exactly how the game portrays it. At no point does Jessie's page say "Jessie dies", and if it did, then I agree that it should be corrected. The difference is that a scene that looks very much like a death scene appears for Jessie, and Katie has no such scene, so we do not refer to Katie's "apparent death", only saying that the game doesn't depict what happens to her.

Also, for the record: edit-warring is unacceptable, and is the reason why the page was locked to edits. Please don't do that.

On the same note, it seems pretty clear to me that the consensus is in favor of keeping the page as it is, and barring new evidence about Jessie's fate should not be changed further. Cat (meow ∙ hunt) 20:22, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Techno himself - a mod, if I'm not mistaken - said Jessie's "death" is unconfirmed. Therefore, that statement should be added to her history section since it is not in doubt. And you're splitting hairs about things being uncertain - there are some things that, while not outright stated, are so obvious that they don't need to be. Jessie's "death" is not one of those and should be treated accordingly. Your examples are unrealistic exaggerations. I'm not trying to push a theory. I'd just like the simple logical fact that her "death" is unconfirmed to be specifically acknowledged in her history section, as it's pertinent information. Please.

What is speculative about the FACT that we never saw Jessie or her body after Chapter 12?
What is speculative about the FACT that we never saw Jessie or her location at the moment of the plate collapse?
What is speculative about the FACT that we never saw the pillar itself come down?
What is speculative about the FACT that we never saw the pillar ruins?
What is speculative about the FACT that Jessie's glove was undamaged and intact?
What is speculative about the FACT that the Whispers intervened in her supposed death but not President Shinra's?
What is speculative about the FACT that the Whispers' defeat affected Midgar in some way?
What is speculative about the FACT that we never saw the rest of the room Biggs was recovering in?

These questions still haven't been answered. Please do so. I'm not trying to be rude with the all caps, I'm just trying to draw emphasis to what I'm saying. Sorry for the confusion. And please let "seemingly" remain in the image caption I edited, because as has been pointed out (and not just by me), Jessie's "death" is unconfirmed. The caption says "final moments" when we don't know for sure that they actually are. So the caption should not reflect certainty when there is none. And I was specifically told that the description of her glove as being undamaged could stay, so please retain that. Thank you. 185.220.102.4 21:30, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

All of those are irrelevant to the article though.

It is always better to avoid writing "such and such is unconfirmed" to articles, and in this one just writing what happens still leaves that interpretation available to the reader, so really best of both worlds to do it this way.

I interpret Kitase's "no comment" in that he wants us to buy the following parts and find out for ourselves what happens. I do like Miphares's suggestion for the behind the scenes though, let me see if I can make some smart-looking reference out of this...Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 10:52, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

My questions are not irrelevant to the article. They show why Jessie's fate is uncertain. And readers shouldn't have to interpret anything. That's making them work when they shouldn't have to. Everything should be spelled out for them, including that certain things like Jessie's "death" have not been confirmed and that, as such, it means that her fate is uncertain. Also, Techno told me that the description of her glove as being intact and undamaged could stay, so please restore it. This detail is important because it potentially shows that someone - possibly Yuffie in Intergrade - could've gotten her out of the pillar just before it came down. Otherwise the glove would've been a scorched, blackened, and crushed mess.

As for Kitase's statement, keep in mind that SE deliberately chose to include Jessie in the show. By doing so, Kitase had to know that the topic of her survival was almost certainly going to come up. Not necessarily exactly when, of course, but only that it would. And he also had to know that his response would create more excitement and anticipation for her return, even though it was just that he couldn't say right now. So I think it's more than just wanting us to buy the next game. He feels like Jessie's main character material, as he said in the discussion about the scene in her house. There would be no reason for him to be evasive if she wasn't alive, and combined with the glove tease in the ending, the whispers being around her in the pillar only to be defeated later in the final battle, and the fact that we never saw her body or grave after Chapter 12, there's a very good chance that she not only is, but may also have an expanded role in the ongoing story. This is especially true in light of the exchange she has with Cloud at the bar before he leaves for Reactor 5 - when she laments not having a starring role, he says "There's always next time." This could be foreshadowing for the rest of the series - and since foreshadowing had already been used at least twice in her case, a third time isn't out of the question. It's also not a repeatable sequence, which suggests it has more significance than the comments that do repeat when you keep talking to her. These are just some things to keep in mind. 176.10.99.200 16:41, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

I feel like this is just going in circles at this point. The overwhelming consensus on this talk page and the wiki Discord discussion is that we should not include any notes that something is "unconfirmed", and we're not going to interpret the ending of the game for the reader. Without the presence of new evidence, there is simply no point in continuing this conversation. Therefore I am going to close the discussion on that.

You do it on other pages here. Why is hers so different? And Jessie's fate IS uncertain. It's a fact and should be stated on her page. The idea that she could've survived would never have existed if it wasn't. 139.99.155.187 20:52, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

As for the question of Jessie's glove: we could simply modify that sentence to say

After Cloud and friends defeated the Whispers and escaped Midgar in "Destiny's Crossroads", one of Jessie's gloves, and her bandanna, were undamaged on the desk beside a bed with a recuperating Biggs.

Thoughts on that? Cat (meow ∙ hunt) 20:26, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

I'd do "were seen undamaged" and then that should be fine. I'm also happy to add Miphares' thing to the page under BTS, and can make the reference with the right youtube link...-- Technobliterator ^T_C 20:37, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

There is only one glove (guess one was lost somewhere because she does wear a pair) and they are dirty, but not full of visible holes or anything. I don't understand why we should comment on them being undamaged since they are still so dirty. This is the colour they are supposed to be. Also I named that image I uploaded "gloves" and that is wrong, oh well!Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 20:38, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Her glove could only have been undamaged if she wasn't in the pillar at the very moment it came down (because she was wearing it and it couldn't have come off on its own), and that's why it's important to mention it. If she had still been there, her glove would've been totally burnt and charred, and the metal backing would've been flattened and bent from being crushed. But neither of those happened. 139.99.155.187 20:52, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

I added the speculation bit to the "Reception" earlier with not the exact words as Miphares, but not protective of how it should be phrased! I thought "reception" worked still because it was because of her positive fan reception that fans asked Kitase about Jessie. But it could have its own section instead.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 20:42, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Oh, and also, in the first FF7R ultimania, the devs said they wanted Cloud to be confused in his interactions with Jessie, not annoyed. Can this be corrected? Here's the relevant link with quotes from Nomura: https://twitter.com/kwillyjoan/status/1255570549364920322

And why is the headband assumed to belong to Jessie? It could just easily be Biggs' headband - his head's wrapped in the same place he normally wears it, and there's no sign of the hanging straps behind his ear that would be there if he still had his on. 185.220.101.6 23:29, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Leotard??

Hey, in the appearance section, it mentions that Jessie is wearing a blue leotard under her armor? How do we know that? It looked like a blue shirt to me.Warriorking849 (talk) 12:18, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Yeah we can't really say for sure. I think it looks like a leotard for how it sits, but there is no concept art showing it as such. Removed!Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 13:11, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Jessie now in Final Fantasy: Brave Exvius

Just thought I'd mention that Jessie's now been added to Final Fantasy: Brave Exvius, so information about that should probably be added under the Other Appearances section. Here's a link to her page on the FFBE wiki:

https://exvius.fandom.com/wiki/Avalanche's_Jessie

And she's also featured on Remake Cloud's vision card in Final Fantasy: Brave Exvius as well, so you might want to mention that, too:

https://exvius.fandom.com/wiki/Mad_Dash

71.79.34.141 19:55, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Cloud intended to be confused with Jessie, not annoyed.

In the first FF7R ultimania, the devs said they wanted Cloud to be confused in his interactions with Jessie, not annoyed. Can this be corrected? Here's the relevant link with quotes from Nomura:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWyuwr1XQAAt6gW?format=jpg&name=large

71.79.34.141 06:05, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

I changed it to use "flustered" from the follow-up sentence. Seems like a fitting word for this.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:05, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Dialogue inconsistencies in the DLC

Just wanted to point out that in the DLC, Jessie's dialogue never changes to show any knowledge of Barret and Tifa's return and Cloud's fall. She acts the exact same way both before and after the return scene, acting as if Barret and Tifa haven't come back yet even after they have, which makes no sense. Seems like a glaring oversight by SE that they didn't take basic continuity into account. Same as not including her in the return scene to begin with when she was sitting out on the porch the entire time except for during Nayo's walk, when she and the other FC players could've just been made temporarily unable to be interacted with instead of removed. Because of Jessie's interest in Cloud, her reaction to his fall was arguably the most important one to show out of the JBW trio, yet SE didn't do it. 71.79.34.141 18:22, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Jessie now in Dissidia & a few other notes

Just wanted to let you guys know so you can add it to her page. Jessie was just added to Dissidia Opera Omnia last month in Japan as a playable character and she's expected to arrive in global in February 2023. Here's a link to a Twitter post from Dissida.DB showing off some of her gameplay:

https://twitter.com/DissidiaDB/status/1539570663106789377

Also, on a separate note, according to the actual game files in the PC version of the remake, it was supposed to be her entire armor set on the dresser on the end, not just her glove and headband. This is very interesting in light of her possible survival, as that would be far too much for a mere memento. Here's an image of the model from the game files:

https://i.postimg.cc/qvqcZXTw/gear.png

Lastly, Toriyama said in the Material Ultimania that Jessie uses "Psych!" to hide her romantic feelings behind a laugh and a smile. This proves beyond any doubt that her interest in Cloud is real. Here's a scan of the appropriate page showing Toriyama's quote in full:

https://i.postimg.cc/Pr2z4VBN/psych.jpg

71.79.34.141 19:55, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Even when provided with actual statements from the one of the devs himself (Toriyama), the wiki staff still refuses to allow what he said to be added to Jessie's page. He specifically lays out what Jessie really means when she says "Psych!" and yet the wiki staff ignores it despite how it confirms that her interest in Cloud is completely genuine. They are so invested in a particular view of her that they can't accept that any part of it could be wrong. Here is the scan of the page from the Material Ultimania with Toriyama's quote:

https://i.imgur.com/cFbX6M4.jpg

This needs to be added to Jessie's page as it clarifies the authenticity of her feelings for Cloud. If this wiki IS about providing accurate information as the staff claims, then there's no reason not to add what Toriyama (one of Remake's co-directors) said and remove any references to Jessie's interest in Cloud possibly being anything less than genuine. Refuse to do this and you prove you are biased against Jessie and are incapable of separating the edits from the person suggesting them.

It was originally proposed here to abide by the rules of the wiki, but since no response was given and the proposed changes were not made, the editor did it himself. If a response had been given in the first place and had the staff been more receptive to those changes which are backed by dev statements and actual game files, the editor might not have felt it necessary to change the page on his own. It also shows that the staff turns their noses up even at official sources if what they say is different than what the staff feels should be. The only way to prove this wrong is to allow the changes to be made.

Also, tagging on Twitter is not harassment. Otherwise everyone on the site would be guilty. Nojima himself has never said he was harassed. That's just people projecting their own feelings and opinions onto him rather than going solely by what he himself says. Also, if you bothered to pay attention, you'd have noticed that it was mostly Clotis who were upset about the posts, while it was mainly Cleriths who rightly called them out for their terrible behavior. Or do you support online witch hunts and lynch mobs?

Either prove a tag is harassment, step by step, a complete chain of causality, or retract your claim and step down from the wiki staff, Techno, as you are too biased against Jessie to allow even dev statements that seem to contradict your view of her to be added to her page and are thus unfit for your position, one which requires utter neutrality that allows the posting of information even if it's contrary to your personal views as long as it's backed by official statements, which the explanation for Jessie's use of "Psych!" is.

And you also didn't add the information about Jessie being added to Dissidia despite being given actual gameplay footage. Do you really hate her that much? Any refusal to respond simply proves me right. 107.189.10.143 18:25, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Toriyama himself said that Jessie uses "Psych!" to hide her ROMANTIC feelings behind a laugh and a smile and NOT because she was "just joking around." It is your DUTY to add this to Jessie's page and remove the claim that she was joking. Dev statements outweigh wiki staff theories. Not doing so proves you're afraid of her interest in Cloud being confirmed as genuine. I am NOT going to stop reminding you to do this, so you might as well just get it done as soon as possible.

Again, here is the image with his quote on it: https://i.imgur.com/cFbX6M4.jpg

Also, here is one of the interviews where Erica Lindbeck, Jessie's VA, outright says that Jessie's interest in Cloud is totally real: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYLeXxNWIZ8

This needs to be added to Jessie's page as well. Not adding all of the requested information, which is entirely backed by official sources, creates a false and inaccurate depiction of Jessie on her page and does her character a great disservice by convincing people to think things about her that aren't true.

164.92.218.139 19:00, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

This sentence - "In Final Fantasy VII Remake, Jessie commonly uses the slang term "Psych!" after acting flirty with Cloud, to show she was not serious." is completely wrong as both Toriyama and Erica Lindbeck have proven with their statements, as noted above in the previous section. This sentence NEEDS to be corrected immediately. Jessie WAS serious and her interest in Cloud WAS real, as these OFFICIAL SOURCES confirm:

Toriyama in the Materia Ultimania: https://i.imgur.com/cFbX6M4.jpg

Erica Lindbeck in her interview with Philip Hartshorn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYLeXxNWIZ8

If this sentence is not changed to reflect the additional information I have provided, further action may be taken until it is. And it will be entirely your fault for thumbing your nose at officially-released information. 164.92.218.139 19:29, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

To all three IP addresses: Please see the edit summary in my latest edit to the page. I did not restore three elements of the final result of the edit warring for three different reasons:

1. The bombs actually belonging to Shinra: I don't know in which specific chapter of the game this is revealed or mentioned.

I never said the bombs weren't hers, but we're specifically shown in Chapter 1 that it was Shinra who blew up Reactor 1 by having the mechs target the core. Jessie's bomb only damaged it but didn't affect the reactor itself. Also, we are also shown Shinra messing with Jessie's bomb in Reactor 5, which Cloud and Tifa curiously didn't mention to her. 89.58.41.0 19:51, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Given my relatively limited knowledge of the game and the fact that it hardly affects the knowledge of the character imparted from this particular page, I'm going to skip over this one and defer to others to add it or not. SlyCooperFan1 (talk) 20:16, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

2. Jessie's "Psych!" hiding her romantic feelings for Cloud: You keep posting the same image, but this wiki does not use direct images for references. You need to provide the exact book and page number.

So even though the scan is clearly from an official source - I said multiple times that it was the FFVIIR Material Ultimania - that's still not good enough for you? But if you must know, it's on page 84 of the English version. You can see for yourself if you have the book. 89.58.41.0 19:51, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't own the Material Ultimania, so I had no way of knowing where in the book it was. Book sources are added to this wiki with exact page numbers. I've added the quote and reference now. SlyCooperFan1 (talk) 20:16, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

3. Jessie's full armor set being in the game files: I don't know how to cite that. I don't even know if that's possible to cite, or if the wiki doesn't allow reporting on content like that.

The image I provided was accessed using certain FFVIIR modding tools. Umodel, to be specific. It allows you to look through and extract the actual game files. 89.58.41.0 19:51, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

This is also an official warning: Stop antagonizing the administrators of this wiki. You can present facts and evidence to support those facts without making attacks. Your access to this wiki and ability to edit and communicate here is a privilege, not a right. Please remain civil in your discourse here. SlyCooperFan1 (talk) 19:24, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

I wouldn't have been so defensive if my posts had been responded to in the first place and I was politely told what I needed for my proposed changes to be added. Instead, I was ignored, so I made the changes myself. I would suggest always responding to anyone who posts on a talk page no matter what. It's common courtesy. And I did provide evidence for my claims, but even these official sources were scoffed at. You guys need to think and be aware of how you come across and be more lenient with submissions. 89.58.41.0 19:51, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

I am not an admin of, or usual contributor to, this wiki. I'm a Fandom Wiki Representative assigned to support this wiki however needed. See below for an extended response. SlyCooperFan1 (talk) 20:16, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

The Toriyama one can honestly be cited, because it's right there. However, not sure why Erica Lindbeck's interview is entirely important to Jessie, when she's just a voice actor, and not anyone associated with the dev team to prove her crush on Cloud more authentic? Besides, why use it when we already have words from the devs on her feelings?

Because it adds additional weight to Toriyama's statement, and as her VA, she has to know her character and how she feels to be able to portray her, plus she likely had access to lines and possibly even whole scenes that were not included in the final game but which added to her understanding of Jessie. Being her VA makes her an official source. 89.58.41.0 19:51, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

As for the game files, they're just that, game files we do not know the purpose for when it came to the models. Maybe they for testing purposes on what could be used in the scene? Maybe they had all parts of her armor there to make the hint more clear? Maybe they were also decorations cut that may have originally been meant to be seen in Jessie's place in the slums and dropped because they didn't want to make Jessie an armorless model? We don't exactly know. So why even mention it when we're just speculating the purpose of the models in the files? --Miphares (talk) 19:42, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Because the textures that go with that particular model are from the damaged version of her armor, so they wouldn't have been in her house, which if you use the camera mod to look at it from the inside, you'll see most of the walls are transparent. And her headband is folded in the same way as it is in the final scene on the dresser. 89.58.41.0 19:51, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Also, what about Jessie's addition to Dissidia Opera Omnia? I provided actual gameplay footage. She's still only in Japan at the moment, but she's set to arrive in the global version in February 2023. And you haven't added any images of her from FF: Brave Exvius or even done a page for her entry in that game despite there being a link for it. Another example of her being treated worse than other characters by the wiki staff. 199.249.230.68 20:05, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

You are correct in that you bringing up these things on the talk page should have then been responded to, but if that doesn't happen, the solution is NOT to then edit the page 10 times or start a back-and-forth edit war. A single edit, or two if you make a mistake and correct yourself, is perfectly acceptable, but that editing behavior followed by an edit war is not permitted. If you make a legitimate edit and it gets reverted, reach out to the reverting user to discuss the edit. If that dialogue breaks down, reach out to an admin directly, and if that fails, then reach out to Fandom support, through a Wiki Representative (in this case, me) or, on wikis without a representative, through Zendesk.

You should never, ever attack, make accusations, or take matters into your own hands like you did. Given that the page has had to cool down from your edit war, it should be expected that we're more concerned with maintaining the page as it stands and preventing further escalating situations than getting back to normal wiki duties. Your actions are forcing the wiki staff to babysit the wiki instead of contributing actual content. SlyCooperFan1 (talk) 20:16, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

I only edited the page as much as I did because my changes, which were backed by official sources, were reverted without explanation. Also, you failed to add "thus proving her interest in Cloud is real" to the corrected sentence. Toriyama specifically used the word "romantic" to describe the feelings she uses "Psych!" to hide. There's no other conclusion that can be drawn from his statement. Please add that phrase to the sentence. 199.249.230.68 20:27, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

You edited the page 10 times before your edits were reverted. You didn't read what I said: do not keep editing a page if someone reverts your edit. Reach out to them to discuss the edit first. As for your follow-up demand, I'm not adding that to the sentence because the sentence I put there is already clear enough. SlyCooperFan1 (talk) 20:32, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Oh, well my keyboard was acting up, I was trying to fix some typos I made but it kept submitting the changes even though I didn't want it to, I couldn't even type half the time. Sorry about that. There were also a couple things I hadn't thought of at first that I tried to add later. And I wouldn't call my followup a demand since I did phrase it politely. But the sentence as it is isn't clear enough. Remember Wizard's First Rule: people are stupid. Things need to be spelled out explicitly so there is no chance of misunderstanding. 185.195.71.3 20:57, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Regarding your edits prematurely saving, I notice that you were using Visual Editor to edit the page. Try switching to "Source editor" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing, that might work better for you.

As for your demand, "you failed to add" is hardly polite. The sentence is perfectly clear in its current state; no reasonable person would read that sentence and come out of it thinking that Jessie does not have romantic interest in Cloud.

I'd like to, in turn, remind you of Final Fantasy Wiki:Conduct, the policy governing user conduct on this site, particularly this point: "Concede when it is time. Do not beat a dead horse ... When the length of a debate outweighs the importance of the issue in question, drop it." Aside from Dissida, which I can look into adding to the page later on if no one else gets around to it, the crux of what you were attempting to add to the page has been added, its meaning is clear enough, and a citation is properly in place. There is no need to repeat the sentiment and fluff up the page. SlyCooperFan1 (talk) 02:14, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Wow, this is extremely hard to read. Splitting someone else's posts with your own makes things really hard to follow, and when someone does that, I'd appreciate if people didn't continue to reply in that manner, thanks.
Anyway, Jairus, I just want to point out a few things here:

1. No matter what the dispute is, going through 6 different IP addresses in the space of a day does not endear you to us.
2. To be blunt, we don't want you here any more. You get more disruptive as time goes on, any slight hint of dispute results in you attacking the wiki and the staff, in some cases well beyond what conduct allows, and we are seriously concerned about your continued single-target fanaticism, that has already created more drama than any single user is worth on Twitter, being given a platform here.

As such, as you might be able to tell with Techno blocking the account you created (and I guess auto-blocking your main IP in the process), we're done with this. You're banned permanently, we're keeping the Jessie page protected so you can't just ban-evade your way back onto the page, and further IP changes will just get those locked out too. Please, just leave us alone. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 03:36, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

To be clear

SCM's comment from the end of the above thread is the last we will hear on this topic. The offending user is permabanned for edit warring, ban evasion, failure to assume good faith, and for offsite harassing developers and voice actors of Final Fantasy VII.

When you open discussions with assumptions of bad faith ("you only did this because you don't like my character that much, meanie >:("), you forfeit your further participation in that discussion. When you engage in edit warring, regardless of the merit of your additions, you forfeit your right to make contributions to the project. And we have no interest in engaging with the latest shipping war drama.

Along with the offending user's permaban, any user who operates similar behavior will themselves eventually be banned. In addition, any user who continues to engage with this—or other—trolls will be met with a warning followed by a three-day ban. Ignore and move on, and do not give this troll any air or time. The troll has repeatedly demonstrated lack of interest in engaging in productive discussion, and further responses to them are a waste of time. This talk page will be locked for a month, and the page itself is locked at autoconfirmed level.

To the troll in question: Grow up and get a hobby. To everyone else: Do not feed trolls.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 04:09, 19 July 2022 (UTC)