Talk: Jenova

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Jenova Thesis

It may be fact, it may not be. But I do think that it would be necessary to include, or at list link to, the Jenova Thesis report. In my opinion, it's simply too logical to just be overlooked.99.168.72.61 22:47, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

http://faqs.ign.com/articles/706/706775p1.html

		BlueHighwind Q? TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ:
		Thank you, "Spock", but everything in that FAQ is already in our article. And much of the info in there is out of date. Sephiroth was the one in control of Jenova, not the other way around. The Ultimania conferms this.

Jenova's arm

		Dazuro - Professor to Kitchen: The Joan Rivers Story TALK - {{{time}}}
		Okay, I'm confused. I just beat Jenova-Birth, and Cloud flat-out, clearly, no-questions-asked says that Sephiroth was carrying around Jenova's arm, which is what we fought. But I was under the impression, both from this article and the Ultimania, that Jenova's body parts each shapeshifted into a "Sephiroth" and that these were what was fought while Sephiroth was in the Crater. What's the deal? I'm assuming a mistranslation was involved somehow, but... Does it mean that "Sephiroth" was actually Jenova, while carrying her own severed arm, which she left behind to fight? Or did the party fight Jenova itself as a whole, severing the arm in the battle, and misunderstanding that Sephiroth left the arm behind to fight? Or was it only the arm aboard the ship to begin with, which shifted both into Sephiroth's form and then into Jenova-Birth?

		Sorceror Nobody – The supreme nonentity Talk · Flan's Elbow Colosseum · MSPA Wiki · 17:23, 1 June 2009 (UTC) "I can detect matter down to one atom in a vacuum the size of the moon, and apparently, this guy doesn't exist" -- Foaly
		You should ignore whatever Cloud says on the matter until after fighting Jenova-DEATH, however flat-outly he says it. At this point, they all still think it's actually Sephiroth, so he's merely stating the assumption, not the actual fact. In response to the body parts, I always kinda assumed that Jenova was simply shedding parts like a leper as it wandered around in Sephy's form. Perhaps it's intentional, under orders from Sephiroth (who is in control of Jenova). Category: Clarification/Discussion

There's a lot of speculation passed off as fact in this article. Some of it is just plain wrong.

- "Sephiroth Clones, a group of fanatics who served Sephiroth beyond even their own lives."

They are not a group of fanatics, they are normal people who have been experimented on, and are basically unwilling vessels to Jenova's will.

- "the remains of Jenova housed in Shinra Headquarters morphed into the shape of Sephiroth"

This is 100% pure speculation. The blood stains on the floor seem to indicate that Sephiroth was dragging Jenova around with him. Either way, it's not a fact.

Yes, yes, I know about the ultimania and all that. A lot was changed between the script and the game. it isn't definitive here.

- "it let Cloud and his party loose from their cell"

We're never told who lets Cloud loose from his cell. Stating that it is Jenova is incorrect. It could have been Hojo, or maybe a guard fell on the control after he was killed.

- "actually Jenova, not Sephiroth."

This is a theory, as stated above, and should be clearly marked as such.

- "a form of Jenova composed of the Jenova cells from the Sephiroth Clones"

Again, theory. This is never stated in the game, and there's nothing to even point to this being the case.

- "Geostigma largely hit children due to their weakened immune systems"

Children actually have stronger immune systems than adults. This is just wrong.

68.12.84.14 16:37, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

1. If you'll read the full sentence, you'll see it is explained that the clones were experiments.
2. It's physically impossible for Sephiroth to have actually been there.
3. Correct, that is speculation
4. It's not a theory as debunked above.
5. Likely but speculation.
6. Partially true.

Well, a 50% hit rate is better than most anons get. Drake Clawfang 16:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, Speaking of facts that needed to be known, apparently some people thought that Jenova couldn't have driven Sephiroth insane from the proximity they were at because she was incapacitated. However, I'm not sure if that should really be a reason for her not to have excerted her influence into Sephiroth and drove him mad. The reason why is because Sephiroth himself also became incapacitated after Cloud basically knocked him into the Mako reactor shaft, and yet he still not only was able to have control over Jenova, but also Cloud and even one of Cloud's party members [the one with the Black Materia] (Regardless of whether Sephiroth was stronger than Jenova, he still wouldn't have done that if Jenova couldn't, either.).

I also noted that there was some support for the theory that he was indeed driven mad by Jenova's close proximity to him, compounded with the fact he was stressed: Shortly after Zack said to him "Wait... you said "Normal SOLDIERS," what about you?" after Sephiroth told Zack what Makonoids were essentially, Sephiroth started acting strangely, clutching his head with both hands as if he had a severe headache (similar to schizophrenics or being possessed), staggering away, and then when Zack said "Hey... Sephiroth?!" Sephiroth knocked him away before continuing to stagger. This was highly reminiscient to how Cloud behaved whenever Sephiroth tried to take control of him in terms of his mind through Jenova's cells. I thought this was worth noting, anyways. Weedle McHairybug 12:17, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Her head?

Sephiroth took Jenova's head during the Nibelheim Incident and I would think he carried it with him through the Lifestream/Northern Crater. I can only speculate that Jenova-SYNTHESIS is the remains of the head that transformed, like Jenova's body did earlier in the game, but how did Shinra get the head back in AC? And it still has the headband plate thing that it did in the Reactor.

Jenova#Remnants. Doreiku Kuroofangu 01:54, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, of course! I completely overlooked that part of the movie. Duh! --Final Aeon 01:58, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Though apparently thanks to interviews, the "head" in AC has been revealed to not actually be Jenova's head, but an ambiguous cluster of her cells, "head" just seemed to be the most sensible thing to call the contents of that container at the time. Rose Duelist 16:45, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Didn't they originally refer to it as Jenova's neck in (the Japanese version of) AC? I figured that made a lot more sense considering the size of the box... FreeBastion 15:06, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Jenova Project, Reproduction

Was Jenova technically alive during the start of the Jenova Project? Looking back at all of the very direct procedures performed by Hollander and Hojo on Gillian and Lucrecia in order to produce Angeal and Sephiroth, and considering Hojo's "Jenova Project S" was more successful than Hollander's "Jenova Project G", how come neither of them (nor any other Shinra-employed researchers) did not come to the conclusion of attempting to (re)produce a half-human child with Jenova directly? Rose Duelist 16:45, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Jenova was frozen in ice for over two millennia. I'm pretty sure she was not alive after that... at least not in any of the senses we would define 'life'. So, the only way to actually accomplish that, even if it were biologically possible, would be to create a clone of Jenova from her remains. And apparently even Hojo thought that was a bad/impossible idea since there's no record of it being even considered. -- File:FFIII-nes-sage.gif Saethori ^{(T / C)} - 00:26, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Though, Jenova took many living forms throughout Final Fantasy VII, and her 'presence' in the Lifestream never became evident(or a problem) until the end of the game. Also, at Nibelheim, her eyes were open and they had the light of life... it also seemed that she was attached to some sort of life-support while encapsulated. I know it sounds like bad (or good) fan-fiction material, but I actually am curious if she was 'alive' in such a state that her bodily functions (assuming hers are or can be anything like humans) would allow her to conceive a child at the time, and if so, how come none of the privileged researchers took this into consideration. Rose Duelist 17:08, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

		Pictomancer TALK - Pictomancer 21:04, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
		Well, Jenova herself is essentially a virus, correct? Viruses are so dormant when not inside of a cell they can use to reproduce that they are to all intents and purposes "dead." When Shinra found her, Jenova was shapeshifted into the appearance of a Cetra, so she would appear to have been a humanoid being with no life signs, displaying all the symptoms of heavy-duty long-term freezing. I'm pretty sure that with the outward frostbite and the inward lack of ANY response, nobody--not even Hojo--would have considered her alive and capable of child-bearing.

Well viruses aren't actually alive, and they don't actually enter a cell, they merely transfer their genetic instructions to the cell in order for it to reproduce more copies of it. I think it would be more appropriate to refer to Jenova as an alien lifeform since that seems to be what it actually is.

As to whether Jenova was alive, I'd say it, as something that can reform even when its cells are divided, is basically unkillable without killing each individual cell. That's probably why the Cetra imprisoned it rather than killed it (although that could be to prevent it from contaminating the LifeStream after death). It does become active regularly throughout the story of the main game though, taking Sephiroth's form and fighting the part as Jenova Birth, Life, Death & Synthesis. FreeBastion 15:02, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

For me, Jenova wasn't dead, rather in the state of anabiosis. And I think it's better to call it "intelligent colony of cells" rather than a virus. Final-Cannon 14:57, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

The Swarm

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy50/Whostolemymuffin/FFWiki%20Stuff/Talkbox.png

		Likeacupcake - Never are we more free, than when we are confined to the realm of dreams. TALK - 07:24, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
		Yes, that is a Starcraft reference in the title, but that is largely irrelevant, what is is this: I just want to see if I'm alone in this belief, or if there are other people that have come to the same conclusion. I see Jenova as more of a swarm rather than one creature. Allow me to explain: Jenova can recollect itself, and will attempt to do so even over large distances. A single creature would be incapable of this feat; as the moment an appendage is removed from the body it would begin to decay, as it has no nutrients being supplied to it via other organs. A collective being would be (and is) capable of doing so; a bee separated from its hive will ALWAYS return to its hive, unless accompanying a new queen. An ant will do the same. A tuna fish will also (to a lesser extent). Jenova can survive despite only being a head. A dead body would not be able to reunite as per FFVII A swarm could, as this would only be the separation of a group, rather than the destruction of it. Jenova can think and move as one entity. So can most creatures So can certain breeds of ant and bee (and I assume numerous other creatures) Jenova can shape shift A single entity could not recompose itself quickly enough, without being a jelly-fish like creature. A swarm does not have this restriction. As usual I may be over thinking this, but I think the evidence is sufficient that Jenova is closer to a swarm of creatures with a collective consciousness then a single entity.

Well, Jenova is basically defined by its cells, so if we describe it as a swarm of cells rather than creatures, then certainly. I don't think Jenova actually has any organs per se; indeed, isn't the only reason it is humanoid at all simply a result of it mimicking the Cetra before being sealed away? Jenova has never really been anything more than a virus; "she" isn't really a character, and all of its "character traits" are likely just adaptions that serve the end "goal" of infection. Think of it like this... the HIV doesn't target human T-cells in an attempt to cripple the immune system, it simply attacks them because it has evolved to bind to the receptors on those cells. Indeed, no virus "intends" to do harm, but their reproduction cycle just happens to have the unpleasant side effect of destroying the host cell. Similarly, Jenova does not take on humanoid form as part of a deliberate sentient ploy, it is simply what it does. There is no intent, only instinct and inherent biological mechanisms, which are merely part of the universal survival imperative.

Hm, I seem to have drifted away from the original question. Oh well -- Sorceror Nobody  14:02, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
EDIT: ...and then I see the entire section above this one *facepalm*

And that is what you get for trying to begin a discussion while sleep deprived! Likeacupcake 00:16, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Mistranslated line?

From the trivia section: "...it says "Beacause, you are......a puppet" to Cloud. This is the only line of dialogue in the entire game credited to Jenova. Ironically, this line was affected by a translation error." So what does it actually say? Because that's what it says in the FFVII game (ant AC points at this with Kadaj). It should be stated what it says (if it doesn't say this in the jp version) and where is the source for it. Otherwise it's a useless/original research stuff that, if nothing else, shows a fair dose of arrogance (like "it is mistranslated, *I* know what it actually says but am not gonna tell"). Remuscl 20:49, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

..... You've put way too much thought into this and not enough spellcheck. It says "Beacause", and should say "Because". Jimcloud 20:51, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Its quite obvious what it's meant to say since the error is a spelling mistake.Keltainentoukokuu 20:52, February 9, 2011 (UTC)EDIT:sloowwwww

Apparently it wasn't obvious. -_- Drake Clawfang (talk)

Ofc it wasn't. if the OP of that trivia section doesn't know the difference between translation and spelling. That is a spelling mistake, not a translation one. A translation one would have been "because your a dumb, faux sarcastic pizza roll who can't be nice when replying".

Well, of course, the error occurred during translation. The Japanese writers didn't write everything out in English, so the error isn't there. Therefore, the error must have occurred during the translation and localization process. Jimcloud 21:03, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Boy oh boy i do thank god you're not a translator for japanese games. With such a "solid" notion of vocabulary these wonderful games would have been some clones of ゼロウィング.Remuscl 21:07, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

You mean "Zero Wing"? Weedle McHairybug 21:13, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, okay, I'm the one who edited the page, and you don't need to have a go at me, I simply got confused and wrote translation instead of spelling, since FFVII has so many errors in it that it confused me for a moment. So I'm apologising, and please don't have a go at me again. I'm only human. Tia-Lewise 09:11, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

I don't have a go at you, really. You did a very nice job putting this trivia and I love anything that makes me register just to clear up that issue (like this did). If anything, those who sprouted sarcastic comments were the annoying ones or those who can't ACCEPT that spelling≠grammar and post (re)replies when they could just look in a dictionary and see that it's not me who's right, but the very language we use here. I know you're a human and I also know that making mistakes is human but continuing doing the same mistake is wrong [1](which you didn't!) so don't worry (even if it was just a sarcastic comment and you never worried in the 1st place heh). Glad I cleared that out and somehow sad I didn't found out something new, revelatory about Jenova I guess lol. I also put [sic] after the word, as seen here [2]. Remuscl 10:02, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

Mistaken for an Ancient

Wasn't there a scene where Lucretia tells Hojo he mistook Jenova for an Ancient? The article said this was Professor Gast. Ambiesushi! Final Fantasy Fan since 2006 =D 11:35, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think there is such a scene in FFVII. In Cosmo Canyon and Icicle Inn you learn Gast mistook Jenova for an Ancient.Keltainentoukokuu 16:01, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I finally got to that scene in the game I mistook Iflana for Lucrecia. AmbieSushi To think that mother would prefer Sephiroth over... 18:52, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Triva Mistake (green eyes)?

It mentions characters with Jenova cells exhibit green eyes (but Jenova has purple), but I thought the glow in the eyes was caused by the mako infusion, not the Jenova Cells, I didn't want to change anything (and I'm unsure I even could), before I verified that this was wrong. But never once in the game do I recall Jenova being linked to the characters green eyes. 74.74.131.246 05:57, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I think you are right. Zack's eyes didn't change colour after the Nibelheim events, seen in Crisis Core, either (but then again, he was never a successful Sephiroth Clone). Notably, Lucrecia has brown eyes.Keltainentoukokuu 06:04, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Doll

Should this article have a section about the doll? An entire article about the doll would be cool, but a section on this page would satisfy me. JBed 19:49, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

If you think enough can be written about it, why not?Keltainentoukokuu 20:05, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, this page should probably have an Appearance section. The doll can be mentioned in there... possibly??? JBed 20:10, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

That's a good point. Right now the article treats Jenova more as a thing than as a "person" even if it does have a body of its own with and a unique appearance.Keltainentoukokuu 20:14, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Personal pronoun

Okay, so Ifalna uses "he" in PS, and "it" in PC. I can imagine Japanese is one of those langs where "he" and "it" are the same. But anyway...

I'm mainly looking at the top-line...

Jap	PS	PC
その者は親しげな顔でセトラたちに 近づき…あざむき…そして...... ウィルスを…ウィルスを与えたのです	He first approached as a friend, deceived them, and finally...... gave them the virus.	It first approached as a friend, deceived them‚ and finally... gave them the virus.

What can a Japanese speaker tell me about the personal pronoun? I assume it can be translated as either he or it, and the PS translation was wrong. JBed 21:54, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's safe to say that on most counts, the PS translation is wrong. VII is horrendously translated. Tia-Lewise 15:03, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

That may be, but we should still have someone translate the Japanese to find out. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 15:05, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Google Translate says the first line of Japanese is:

That person with a friendly look to their settler

"That person" is genderless, e.g., it. Obviously, however, this is just quick-and-dirty; Google Translate is not to be trusted. Proof of this:

ウィルスを…ウィルスを与えたのです → I gave the virus a virus ...

So yeah, we need a person with Japanese to give a real translation of that. Cat: meow ∙ hunt 21:22, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Bit late, but there actually isn't a "pronoun" used in Japanese - just その者/sono mono/literally "that person"...of course Jenova isn't actually a person, probably leading to the discrepancy. "It" is more correct to the original Japanese (as mono can also refer to things, with a different kanji), but the PS version probably just threw "he" in there as a general translation of the phrase without thinking of context. There is definitely nothing in the line that's indicative of gender.Griever-Renzokuken 05:17, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

"True form"?

"Jenova's true form is that of a gray-skinned woman" Somehow, I don't think that is the best way of putting it (mainly because no-one knows her true form). Maybe "Jenova's humanoid form (seen throughout the Compilation) is that of a gray-skinned woman" is better? 202.67.103.37 02:18, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Jenova has other humanoid forms, such as the form of Sephiroth... Jenova's dormant form?Keltainentoukokuu 02:23, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

While that does sound better than what it currently is, I just get the feeling it's still not the best way to put it. I would've said something along the lines of "at the time of its discovery", but we don't know what it looked like then (for all we know, she had normal skin and no eyeball-boob by then and only got the rest from Hojo's experiments =P). Perhaps "Jenova's appearance during the Nibelheim incident up until its escape from ShinRa HQ is that of a gray-skinned woman"? I realize it doesn't cover its potentially same appearance from a while ago, but by then it's speculation, anyway. 202.67.103.37 09:12, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah maybe there isn't a way to put it without it being a little long-winded. How about write it something like...that whenever Jenova is seen held in a tank she is a grey-skinned woman but it is unknown if this is her "true" appearance or just another form it assumes (and maybe something like Jenova doesn't even have a true form)?Keltainentoukokuu 16:52, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

In that case, maybe "Every time Jenova is seen in a dormant state, she appears to be a gray-skinned woman"? I would've used the Crisis Core translation of "in a state of suspended animation", but it's long-winded and means pretty much the same.202.67.103.37 03:51, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

It's also possible that it was the last form she/it took before being defeated, as it WAS killing off the Cetra by posing as them. Sanokal 222.154.121.154 07:17, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

JENOVA is a giant tick-like looking alien with two tentacles. JENOVA-Synthesis is the almost fully reunited form of JENOVA and possibly what she really looks like. But like Sephiroth, JENOVA can shapeshift and so she might have changed her appearance to fool the scientists by looking like an Ancient (the gray-skinned woman form). That is also how Doctor Gast was fooled by her.

Or alternatively, she is the gray-skinned woman and the tick alien is just a mutated form of her head.

-Soarel

'Missing' right eye?

It appears that everyone is in agreement that Jenova is indeed missing her right eye (even I agree with that), but wouldn't it probably be best to say that she appears to be missing her right eye? And yes, I've seen the Crisis Core texture [3] where it is pretty clear that she is indeed missing the eyeball, but could it be that the modellers simply didn't want to waste geometry in Advent Children by adding something that would never be seen? 202.67.99.19 03:42, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

For me, this image is enough in-game evidence the eye is visibly missing (even if most of it is covered). JBed 14:36, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

And this is pretty conclusive. JBed 14:38, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Cat-slit eyes?

'The pupils of the affected can also change into a cat-like slit, though the rest of the eye remains unchanged.'

I would argue that this is not true. In the FFVII world, the only character with cat eyes is Sephiroth (as well as his remnants). Genesis, Angeal, Cloud, and Zack are all infected with Jenova cells but their eyes remain 'normal'.

The only times Cloud's eyes change into slits is when Sephiroth appears to have some effect (as in Advent Children, when Kadaj is temporarily shapeshifting into Sephiroth's form, or whatever is happening there).

I thus argue that the cat eye is not a Jenova-related trait - it is related to Sephiroth's cells.

In the Forgotten City, the children's eyes change to slits after ingesting the water from the lake. However, they were not infected with Jenova directly - rather, Sephiroth's will/memories after he released them upon his defeat in the Northern Crater (see the novella for details), so it can be assumed that they are infected with Sephiroth's cells. The cat slit, thus, is a result of Sephiroth's will to seek reunion with Jenova's main body.

Any thoughts on this? 211.27.110.232 07:06, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds sensible to me. Would especially make sense seeing as the Remnants don't have any J-cells, that's kinda the whole thing behind the plot where they are looking for Jenova's remains, so all traits they have should come from Sephiroth rather than Jenova. The bit could be re-phrased and moved to Sephiroths article to the "Abilities" section somewhere?Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 23:06, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Move?

Since the J-E-N-O-V-A music is now called "Jenova (theme)". --Shockstorm (talk) 05:42, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah. C A T U S E 05:48, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

Ok. What should the tag be? Maybe (Term), but I'm not really sure. --Shockstorm (talk) 05:57, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

...character? She is a character, even if she's not exactly human. C A T U S E 06:00, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

I think Term is best, but Character would work too. Doreiku Kuroofangu 06:15, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't have to be moved because it is Jenova's character theme. Like you don't make disambig for Rinoa because of Rinoa (boss).Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 12:40, November 23, 2012 (UTC) EDIT: Actually maybe boss pages are a special thing now that I think about it.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 12:42, November 23, 2012 (UTC) EDIT2: No I was right. Like this right? --> Cosmo Canyon & Cosmo Canyon (theme) Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 12:47, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

It's called a parent-child relationship. The theme belongs to Jenova, thus it is sensible to have the Musical themes section on the Jenova page parent the theme. I.e: Do not move the Jenova article. 79.69.204.59 16:15, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

Jezmemeny/Snow/Pollensalta

Are the female enemies Jezmemeny, Snow, and Pollensalta related to Jenova in any way? Aside from being female, and enemies, they also lure people to their doom. It's not concrete or anything, just something I was wondering since I was a kid.

Doubt they are linked. Although Jenova is feminine, the bosses it spawns for you to battle are unlike those enemies. FF games prior to FFVII had plenty of "seductive" female enemies, but there haven't really been any like that as regular encounters since then. Jezmemeny, Snow, and Pollensalta are probably homage to earlier games where enemies like that were a thing.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 11:07, August 15, 2013 (UTC)

Shiva

"the remake revealing that they used Shiva to seal the entity in ice"

That is not how I interpreted it. I haven't played the game, so I might be missing information, but from what I can tell: on the planet there is a legend about a queen called Shiva who encased the north in ice. The truth is that it's caused by the planet's response in diverting life force to heal the wound where the calamity fell. But because the people who believed this legend, and their thoughts, are a part of the lifestream, these thoughts crystallised into Materia that allowed for the physical manifestation that is the Shiva summon.

Am I mistaken? JBed (talk) 04:24, May 12, 2020 (UTC)

I think you are right. Same as how the Leviathan summon is a manifestation of the Wutai religion, not really a god.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 19:29, May 13, 2020 (UTC)

Imitating loved ones

Not sure about the bit where it said that Jenova scans its prey's memories and then imitates their loved ones to get close to them. I feel like this is probably true, but can't confirm from the OG FFVII script. If there is any specific line on this from the game or movie or guide it would be a good reference.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 12:57, June 3, 2020 (UTC)