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Gilgamesh: Enough expository banter!
This talk page is used for discussing improvements to the page "Instant Death". It is not the place for general discussion or sharing stories about the topic of this article.

Could "Instant Death" be considered an element? Some enemies are weak to it, others are more susceptible. There are summons which inflict "Instant Death" based damage, (:D) and it can be inflicted in various ways. Though, it's not as if one can absorb it, you can equip it to weapons in FFVIII to inflict it.

This article would also work perfectly with the format. It's not non-elemental really, it ignores elements I s'pose. Sounded like a better idea when I first thought of it. But it's kinda an element.  ILHI 19:11, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I think Drake Clawfang brought up something a while ago about making a page that listed abilities that inflicted instant death. I was going to say that Death (ability) could cover as both an element page and a spell page, but... no, it would need to work the same as Poison. Plus, because of that Vagrant Story enemy, there are no links to simply "Death"... we'd need to link all the enemy status effect boxes to Death (Element), though.

I.... like it :D (Then we can list Zalera and Odin and a bunch of other summons that inflict instant Death, and all those abilities XD XD XD) 8bit 19:16, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

And FFI says it's an element.  ILHI 19:17, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Wait, are we making the element page Instant Death or Death (Element)? And if it's the latter, do we keep this Instant Death page or redirect it to Death (Element)? 8bit 19:19, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Everything on here pretty much matches the information that would go on an element page. So two pages wouldn't be needed.
Although I just thought of a flaw with this: Enemies resistant to "Death" still aren't resistant to Zanmato/The End/Sith's limit. From this angle, if created, it would be better placed at "Death (Element)", Instant Death redirecting, and a mention of how there are some ways of inflicting death that ignore any resistances.  ILHI 19:24, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, it's a bad status and enemies can only resist and cause death and don't guard half of "death" damage. However, undead absorb it but that is a different issue altogether.--Werefang 19:20, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

No, because the status is Knocked Out. Kinda. If Instant Death is successful, it inflicts the status "Knocked Out". Instant Death is an attack that deals damages based on the enemies current HP. :3  ILHI 19:24, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
So it's not an element, then? Faethinverba volant 19:29, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I am truly confused here. How can Death be an element? As far as I know, elements are only a value that determines how much or how little damage a spell deals. With Death, it can either hit or miss. Perhaps I'm confused as to what an element is. --BlueHighwind 19:30, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

"A chemical element is a type of atom that is distinguished by its atomic number; that is, by the number of protons in its nucleus," amirite? Faethinverba volant 19:33, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

In reality: It's further apart from the key elements (fire, ice etc.) than the others are. Not to say it's too far to not be classed by one. Fire spells are fire based; Death spells are instant death based. Difference is, the level of spells in most other elements increase the damage, whereas in Death, it increases the chance of inflicting the Knocked Out status.

But it's about as non-elemental as gravity. Gravity does damage based on the enemy's HP unless immune. Death does damage based on the enemy's HP unless immune. Right? (Ooh, and you can absorb Death in earlier games!)

Also, Death Elemental. Earth, Fire, Water, Air and Dark are elements, why not Death? Okay, he doesn't actually have any instant death attacks, a flaw in me using him in my reasoning and his name: but he's called "Death Elemental". Death and element in one name. :D

If that's all not enough to convince you, then we should at least adopt the format of other element pages. Instant Death is so close to being an element that some of you considered it. It's not a status, it's a type of attack. You can hardly say it's non-elemental when gravity does the same thing, it just has a higher hit-rate and does less percentage of damage.  ILHI 20:10, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Instant Death is not an element. Death is an affect caused that is unaffected by enemy weakness. An element is a condition of an offensive technique that modifies damage based on enemy weakness. This difference is best illustrated in FFVII where if you equip status affect with the materia that has Death, you can cause/resist Instant Death while elemental effect is a waste of a good materia slot. Gravity is only sometimes elemental (when it isn't time magic).--Werefang 22:32, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

You are right. But I've known thinking that the whole way through, and said that. That is the only reason this isn't an element already. But in earlier games (like FFI, you know, the one with the Death Elemental) at very least, absorption heals the enemy instead of dealing damage, like elements. Only does that with the other genres of magic considered "elements". And resistance works the same.
But if we're not going to count it as an element: I'm still supporting formatting it the same way.  ILHI 22:56, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
It's Elemental, my dear Watson (lulz, bad puns galore): Y'all are over-thinking it. "Instant Death" is a classification/common term, nothing more, nothing less. It even says so in the very beginning of the article (emphasis added): "Instant Death refers to any attack that automatically kills its victim regardless of Hit Points remaining." At best, you can call it a status. Yes, it leads to a secondary status (KO), but technically, so does Poison if given enough time. P.S. It should be important to note that this does not exclude the possibility of Death being viewed as an element, as Death and Instant Death are not the same thing. --Hecko X 23:12, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Death is a spell that causes an instant KO. Zantetsuken, The End, Game Over and Kill all have the same effect as Death, except vary in strengths (or their likelihood of working, their range of targets, and their range of enemies which they work on). There are items, summons, limits and spells which do "Instant Death" based damage. I don't know where I'm going with this.  ILHI 23:24, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
The death element spell, is that Scourge you're refering too. I don't know about earlier versions but in the games I've played it's refered to as non-elemental. Or are you refering to the beastiary entries that list Death Resistance and Weakness.--Werefang 23:32, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
So, do we want this as its current incarnation or Death (Element)? Death (Element) might sound weird to some people, but at least it shows right away that it's a broad sort of death...I am not articulating this as I would like to... Well, people see the tag and they understand that the page chronicles a broad spectrum of all things macabre. Instant Death sounds moar... eh, narrow. 8bit 15:53, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Death is not an element. Death spells are classified in most games as "Dark-elemental" which is why undead absorb the Death spell. Jeppo 15:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
In TA2, RW, IX, XI, XII, and probably more, Dark/Shadow element does not equal Death. But you're right, Death (Element) does sound awkward. Instant Death, then, and make this page like any other element page? 8bit 16:10, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I really think we're making a mountain out of a molehill and thinking too hard on the subject The Death effect, if anything, is more of a trait than an Element, and if undead absorb it, it's just a trait of theirs. Jeppo 16:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
So because there's a Death Elemental, Death is an Element now? Maybe if that happens, we'll make Element pages for Sea, Storm, Gold, White, Red, Blue, Black, Yellow, White and even Nega >:3 AJDurai 03:34, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
It was a joke. Like a minor reason for doing so. Also, fuck off. Every other FFI Elemental enemy uses the name of an element, if Death is there too: The logic is there, the rest is a joke.
What a coward, hiding behind anonymity >:3 AJDurai 10:53, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Wait, what? Death an element??? When? It's still a status more than an element regardless of what game it is in I think. Xenomic 03:37, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

It's not a status. Death spells cause the Knocked Out status. Doom is a status, Death is not.  ILHI 16:02, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
The Knocked Out page itself lists spells and abilities throughout the game that inflicts the Death "status", not the Knocked Out status. I would argue that being Knocked Out is not the same as being inflicted with Death, as the latter is instant and the former can be achieved with any means of HP-reducing abilities. However, causing the Death "status" results in the player being Knocked Out, which makes things kind of tricky. I propose that the spell tables on the Knocked Out page be moved to this page. Also, when we say in enemy tables that a unit is immune to Death, we mean instant Death, not the Knocked Out status (otherwise it would imply that the enemy never dies). From this point, I also propose that enemies immune to instant death spells and abilities link to this page and not Death (ability) or Knocked Out. 8bit 23:09, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Then I'm assuming that we'd want to change the category of this page to Statuses then instead of Abilities?? Xenomic 23:14, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Meh, not sure. A lot of the pages in the abilities category are basic "skillsets", such as Arcane Magick. Instant Death is kind of a status, but it results immediately in the Knocked Out Status. Thus it can be argued that our Instant Death page refers to a "collection" of abilities that cause death immediately. I'd hold on that for now so we can get more feedback on what I'm proposing. 8bit 00:24, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I do like the idea of bringing what's over from the Knocked Out page over here though. It would make more sense, since Knocked Out is just reaching 0 HP by any means, while Instant Death is ONLY in battles by various means other than direct damage. I say go for it myself, but that's me. Xenomic 00:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
But "Instant Death" isn't a status, it's a type of attack. Instant death attacks inflict the knocked out status. There are other means of inflicting this status however, and inst.Death isn't unique in that way.
Therefore, it's a collection of abilities/summons/items which all do the same type of thing: Much like elements, for example, everything in fire is things that deal fire elemental damage.  ILHI 10:47, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Why don't one call it an attribute instead? If you use Element, people will think it is sort of a natural element.
Won't anybody start a Non-Elemental article soon >:? AJDurai 10:53, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Odin[edit source]

In most games, Odin inflicts ID by cutting up enemies. I know that this is counted as "standard" ID in regards to immunity, but in FFVI, there are several abilities that inflict "slash-type" ID (Cyan's Cleave and the Zantetsuken weapon, in addition to Odin and Raiden) that kill undead enemies, whereas the Death spell and X-type ID with the Assassin's Dagger fully heal them. Does slash-type ID work this way in the other games (ie. killing undead where Death would heal them)? If so, it should probably be noted in the article. 24.78.39.15 23:42, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

FFIV Instant Deaths[edit source]

There seems to be no mention of the enemy attacks, or magic that cause Instant Death in FFIV, whether it be used by enemies or allies LReyomeXX 17:46, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

We need somebody to do it. If you want to help, you can always create it. Jeppo Talk 17:57, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

FFXII Prime Level Death[edit source]

Whoever wrote "Inflicts Death on all party members with a level that is divisible by a prime number" must have failed math. EVERY number but "0" is divisible by a prime number(That number being "1")! Fixed.

1 is not a Prime Number, Fail.--82.39.170.69 17:06, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Any number is divisible by a prime number anyway. Non-prime numbers can be factored down to a list of prime numbers used to make them. A prime number is always divisible by itself. So unless it ignores prime numbers and only prime numbers, the argument still stands. Bluestarultor Best-of Stellar Arena sigicon.png BSA 19:05, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Quake death with Protect Ring on?[edit source]

So, I was playing Final Fantasy 1 for Blackberry yesterday, and I was fighting a monster (can't remember which) that decided to cast Quake on me. My whole party is equipped with Protect Rings, because I find instant death to be most inconvenient :P. However, Quake somehow managed to kill one of my characters. I just sat there for a second going "uhhhhhh... what?" and then moved on to have him revived. Does a Protect Ring not protect against all kinds of death, or is Quake special?

Protection does not equal immunity. And Quake does not obliterate you if you don't have any Protect Rings either. - Henryacores^ 17:53, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

One-Hit Kill by damage[edit source]

Would attacks that inflict damage in excess of the max-HP cap be worth a mention? In FF8, the Light Pillar attack used by Ultima Weapon and Omega Weapon does 9999 HP of damage, and Jumbo Cactaur's 10,000 Needles does exactly 10000 damage. Although they don't cause Instant Death as a status (which could be blocked by junctioning 100 Death spells to Stat-Def), since the player can't have more than 9999 HP, the result is the same: an instantly dead character. - Nick O'Demus 10:59, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

They don't apply. They are just fixed damage attacks.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 12:44, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
I think they are designed to be Instant Death, so they should be mentioned but they it should be made clear they are not typical instant death attacks, thus cannot be blocked with death immunities, but still guarantee instant death. 79.69.209.5 15:27, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
Can you block them with Defend command? Probably not. In some games you can do something to block/dodge some 9999 attacks.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:48, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
I am unaware. As far as I know in VIII said attacks can only be blocked by sacrificing a GF (theoretically, I never use GFs) or by using Invincibility. JBed (talk) 15:53, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
Technically, you can also do something to avoid most instant death attacks (immunity, reflect, not being X level, etc). I do agree it's worth at least mentioning max damage fixed attacks, as they are obviously meant to instant kill a target (or maybe even making a "fixed damage" article, as it's a somewhat recurring enemy ability type). Not to mention that attacks that remove targets from the battle are in this article, despite they also not being "death" attacks. DiamondEdge (talk) 12:35, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

FFVIII Zantetsuken[edit source]

In FFVIII, when the game checks if Zantetsuken was successful, it uses enemies' immunity to the "eject" status. The only two other times this byte is used is for Rapture and Degenerator.

--Aladore384 (talk) 04:20, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

That's useful, thanks. It should be on Rapture and Degenerator sections too then.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 12:38, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
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