Gilgamesh: Enough expository banter!
This talk page is used for discussing improvements to the page "Cloud of Darkness". It is not the place for general discussion or sharing stories about the topic of this article.

A NOTE REGARDING GENDER: Though the Cloud of Darkness's main body has the appearance of a scantily-clad female, the Wiki, based on official sources, considers it/them genderless.

The Japanese often use personal pronouns that could be interpreted as gender-ambiguous, where Western languages often use gender-specific pronouns.

"But she has breasts!", you say, "And a..., and a...., and she's got...; and will ya look at that hair?! She MUST be a woman!"

To be fair, the CoD does look quite a bit like Ultimecia from Final Fantasy VIII, but to say the CoD is a woman is not at all correct, as the CoD refers to itself/themselves in the second-person plural: "We shall devour your light..." Yet, other characters in the story consider it a singular being, and so use "it" as the personal pronoun for the CoD. In any case, the CoD's appearance with two serpentine tentacles suggests a composite body, with the humanoid main body speaking for its two sidekicks in a hive mind. It may also be possible that the CoD is an amalgam of dark souls/energies, much as Exdeath from Final Fantasy V; and yet this is never explored in the game or in any of the CoD's side appearances. Though they never coalesce into one singular form as Exdeath had done and became male in that process, the souls of the CoD are all of the same mindset: reintroduce the Void and consume all other life.

This being said, it becomes easier to imagine the CoD as genderless, but also in the plural as well; picture their role in a film: with current tech, it is possible to overlay concurrent voice tracks into a single voice, warped and twisted as to suggest a vile demon.

We therefore suggest using "it" or "they" along with other relevant forms when discussing the Cloud of Darkness. Swordzmanp236 (talk) 00:15, April 18, 2017 (UTC)

Correction[edit source]


The CoD's Role in the Story[edit source]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't stated by one of the Dark Warriors that the Cloud of Darkness was influencing Xande's actions throughout the entire story?

I recall that as well, i think Xande disrupted the balance of light and dark to escape death, after that initial act CoD awoke and took control of Xande's actions to keep the balance disrupted so she could return everything to the Void.SandS Hero 01:01, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

Aha...[edit source]


Umm...that' Alrighty, then. Definitely not easy to mistake as a guy anymore, one would think. >_<" --Rattlehead 07:22, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

My lord, do I feel stupid O.O. At first, I thought CoD stood for "Call of Duty." ... What's wrong with me? Anyway... I have no idea what your saying... Did you see those erm... uh... feminine... buds? (**I tried my best (^.^)**) 00:47, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

The Amano CoD artwork[edit source]

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Okay people, the way i see it Amano was going through different designs for CoD at the time and the image you guys are going on about is one of his best ones that wasn't used. However when Tesuya joined the company he saw the image and liked it, deciding that if he ever got the chance to use it for a future game. (dadadadaaaaa Dissidia)SandS Hero 01
06, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

Famfrit[edit source]

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His title is a reference to the Cloud of Darkness from Final Fantasy III, using her exact name in the Japanese version.  ILHI 16:36, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Cloud of Light?[edit source]

Why is it that the CoD was fought by the Warriors of Darkness when Light swallowed their world? Shouldn't it have been the Cloud of Light, since in FFIII the CoD reappeared to reset the balance between light and dark by destroying everything? Or is it that CoD is her form for when darkness is overtaking light and if it was the opposite, she would then be the Cloud of Light? Or is it that she has no real name and the title was just given to her? (But iirc she called herself the CoD).

Plot holed. --BlueHighwind 01:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
This isn't a plothole. CoD is an entity that strives on destruction and can only act when the light/darkness balance is disrupted. Sure, CoD is made of darkness, but that doesn't mean it is on the same side as the Warriors of Darkness. Moguta 15:26, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
No, no. I'm looking at the Warriors of Darkness's point of view. They fought the CoD when *light* overtook their world. I'm saying it sounds like an inconsistency since the CoD appeared (or I guess reappeared) when darkness over took the FFIII world. The CoD should have been neutral or both Dark and Light. Unless it changes between the two depending on which side is stronger, which still wouldn't make sense since if it here to balance the world again, it should be on the side opposite of the stronger force (like how the Warriors of Light oppose the darkness that is taking over the world). But that theory is wrong anyway since the warriors of darkness said they fought the same being so....--Final Aeon 01:28, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
So if it both Light and Dark, neutral or changes between. Then why it call the Cloud of Darkness. Shouldn't it be call the Cloud of Twilight or something meaning both Light and Darkness?  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 01:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
No, it is the Cloud of Darkness regardless of which side is overwhelming the other. Cloud of Darkness strives on imbalance and chaos. It's kinda like... Delita Heiral in FF Tactics. Delita saw the chaos in Ivalice and manipulated both sides of the conflict to further his own agenda instead of siding with Ramza. Cloud of Darkness did the same. Just because it's made of darkness doesn't mean it can't have its own agenda. Moguta 09:50, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
The CoD is not thriving on chaos. It exists as an overseer of the balance between light and dark, so if one becomes stronger than the other, then the CoD will step in as and use that kind of as an excuse to destroy everything. I'm pretty sure the CoD is almost like Necron from FFIX (it is defeatable but never actually dies and it's basically God), since the Warriors of Darkness defeated the CoD before came back in FFIII's time to do the same deed. The CoD isn't exactly "evil", it just wants to get rid of everything when there's an imbalance and the heroes don't want their worlds destroyed. The problem I'm having is why is it Darkness when it's alignment isn't with darkness, since it tried to destroy the warriors of darkness's world when light took over....I think that's the main point here. --Final Aeon 19:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, the name's a bit of a misnomer so I guess that's the confusing part. But objective-wise, she's really more like a Cloud of Nothingness. But that doesn't sound as easy to say. o.o --Saethori 19:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
As said before, just because it's an "overseer of the balance between light and dark" doesn't mean it has to become an entity of light or dark depending on the imbalance. In most religions God is an overseer between light and dark and yet is still clearly a light entity. Moguta 22:55, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, maybe we're all on the same page here. Bottom line is that the CoD shouldn't have her name if she's not on either side. I think we drew this out too much for this page....if you have other points you want to make, feel free to put it on my discussion page. --Final Aeon 02:33, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Well maybe she is called Cloud of Darkness because of her age. It is she existed before existence itself when all that was, was darkness. then light appeared and and equalled the darkness, and now whenever one becomes stronger than the other the Cloud of Darkness uses the opportunity to destroy it all and return to the peace that is nothing. Iknow you're gonig to say that if Darkness was there originally then that means nothing or "the Void" doesn't exist but when you think about it, if all that was was Darkness then it was nothing until something different came along making it something.....Just a theory though!SandS Hero 01:14, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

I know this is very late from when this conversation happened, but as the question was never answered...CoD is made of both Light and Darkness, and during the events of FFIII is made mainly of Darkness, as there was a Flood of Darkness that threatened the world. In the DS version one of the Warriors of the Dark says that when they fought her, she was made mainly of Light. So...yeah, at that time she was probably called "Cloud of Light", but as she is currently made of Darkness they refer to her as such. Evnyofdeath 05:53, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

First Battle[edit source]

For some reason Soul Eater can damage her during the first battle, I'm not sure if that's noteworthy or not Oni Dark Link 17:36, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

Xande[edit source]

I'm removing it because it sounds speculatory, but when is it said the Cloud of Darkness manipulated Xande? DoreikuKuroofangu 08:31, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

She mentioned it shortly after Xande's defeat. Weedle McHairybug 13:19, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
Not that I can see she doesn't. DoreikuKuroofangu 15:29, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
The one warrior of Darkness mentions it... The one after fighting Ahriman...--KnightNapier 00:36, June 28, 2011 (UTC)
Excellent, thanks for that! Doreiku Kuroofangu 00:39, June 28, 2011 (UTC)
No problem, just completed FFIII so the line was fresh in my mind...--KnightNapier 02:09, June 28, 2011 (UTC)

Plurality?[edit source]

I dunno, maybe I'm being... me, but every time CoD is mentioned it says "her." Should we say "they" "themselves" and "their" since CoD addresses itself/herself/themselves in plural? It makes sense to me... Nyves 19:28, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

The in-game character file always uses "it", so we should probably do the same -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 17:37, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
The question is that CoD refers to itself in plural several times as well, and we have little idea on how to refer to it as such. - Henryacores^ 17:44, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
I know, but the point is that we have two viewpoints. In the first (...or fourth?) person, Cloud of Darkness uses plural pronouns to describe itself. In the third person, the character file uses singular neutral pronouns to describe it. The article is also written in the third person, and we have no particularly strong reason to favour imitating CoD's quirk of self-reference over the plain text of the character file -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 17:58, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Move[edit source]

Should this be moved to "Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)"? And if so, should we make a "Cloud of Darkness" recurring character page?--Magicite-ffvi-ios.png Technobliterator TC 18:55, August 29, 2016 (UTC)

The other Clouds of Darkness still seem to be the same one from FFIII.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 19:48, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
Hmm the one in FFXIV seems more substantial than just a cameo though. Making a parent page might be a good idea.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 19:51, August 29, 2016 (UTC)

Consensus on gender(s)?[edit source]

This may not have been debated before, so let me just bring it out, How, in personal pronouns, should we refer to the Cloud of Darkness? Given that:

  • in all appearances, their main body is that of one woman, and clearly appears as such.
  • in what few lines of dialogue she/it has/they have, refers to herself/itself/themselves in the plural, as if to be a composite being, noting that Exdeath of Final Fantasy V was also a composite being, yet referred to as male by himself and all others.
  • Final Fantasy Record Keeper takes a safe route and refers to her/it/them with "it" in the game's profile.

It's an interesting contradiction. I chose "they" for our FFRK reference, seeing as that is how the character refers to themselves in the source. Swordzmanp236 (talk) 15:36, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

I think we have tried to use the pronoun the game uses, so s/he for Quina Quen and ze/hir for the Cranberry Knights. It gets tough if no pronouns are ever used for them like probably Gogo.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:51, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

Now they've done it...[edit source]

Square Enix has gone and contradicted itself yet again. The DFFOO crew specifically labels the Cloud of Darkness as a woman by way of pronouns. In the story they're doing for the run-up to Act III, the last chapter is oddly specific about the entity's gender and her pull with the Onion Knight. How do we want to manage this? I'm open to switching to the specific gender in the Dissidia context. Your thoughts, please? Swordzmanp236 (talk) 04:14, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

The gender of the Cloud of Darkness in that case should only apply to the Dissidia Opera Omnia version of it. The original Final Fantasy III story, and the story of Opera Omnia are written by two different people and treated as two separate canons. So the events of the Dissidia series are not canon to main series entry of the character as far as we are aware of. This even is why the main character pages for Warrior of Light from FF1 and Chaos's for example do not include references to the Dissidia series. Just mention that Dissidia Opera Omnia refers to her as she/her at some point in the main article (Behind the scenes idk?), and that's it. Miphares (talk) 08:43, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
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