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This talk page is used for discussing improvements to the page "Bhunivelze (character)". It is not the place for general discussion or sharing stories about the topic of this article.

Fan MonikerEdit

I don't know if you know, but in case you didn't I'll tell you a funny fan moniker I saw on the net for Bhunivelze: it's...'Bunny Bells'. ;P —Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) ∙ 16:25, November 5, 2013 (UTC)

Redundancy? Edit

The part that mentions the new Cocoon is a little redundant. It is mentioned that the new Cocoon is named after Bhunivelze twice... NovaTsukimori (talk) 20:34, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. --Crystal Tear (talk) 20:43, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

Demiurge Edit

He seems kinda similar to the Demiurge as both are not the original supreme god entity as well as having arrogance and cruelty and he can also be compared to God from the Spawn Comics as both are offsprings of original supreme god entities except Bhunivelze lack a spoiled child personalty and that Bhunivelze killed his mother with no remorse. Queen Darkness Von Haven (talk) 07:34, December 17, 2013 (UTC)

Yes he is definitely inspired by the Demiurge from Gnoticism called Yaldabaoth (litteraly "Born from the true god") discribed as an evil entity, creator of the material world. Bhunivelze's battle stance is also almost identical to the final boss from the game "Shin Megami Tensei NINE" who is called... Yaldabaoth. Syuveill (talk) 20:25, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
He also resembles Lucifer with the the amount of bird wings, star of light, tittle of of light and waging an attack on the creator with Lucifer failing his attack and Bhunivelze succeeding his attack Nelokles (talk) 16:42, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

Lyrics already parodied?Edit

I found some parodies in MarquisofElmdor video "4-09 Bhunivelze Final Battle". The lyrics seem to make reference to TV programs like Power Girls or movies like Rio, Rio 2, Ga'Hoole:

(at 0:28) If you are Vivi, oh Nigel you can see it through. Oh Nigel, don't smash the presi... Pre-si-dent! (after that comes the noise and then...) Mars, bunnies, Mars, bunnies, Mars, Mars, Mars, buy Kalashnikov (y'know the AK-47), Jewel's searching a bull in... (the chorus keep saying Kalashnikov... blablabla)... Please please please please please please please please.

(Saber's Edge part) Ooooooh, Mo-ho-ho-ho (x3) Ooooooh (x4)

Commented that she won't parody Caius's Theme because it is too epic.

(after Caius's Theme)

Oh, Nigel's Dysney World, a world Nigel eats. Hey, iluminate the senior, please bait please, senior, bait, please! (space) (at 4:45) Oh, Nigel, break a suit from Azrael, oh Nigel, send me to Ri_ (it is supposed to say "Rio" but in a very slow way) Oh, Nigel, for once at all, just search my Jewel, oh Nigel, it's me Boron. (the Mars-bunnies is repeated)

(the part where the chorus is very very fast) They know what the hell to watch, I don't plan to join the group, for Goddamn credits, goddamn goofies... WHO TOOK ALL THE BAGELS, DAMN NICO! PLEASE COME BACK OR YOU'LL BE DEAD! 201.230.30.218 21:45, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

This is irrelevant to the article; this page should be used to discuss article content. Please take non-article related matters to the relevant forum. Thank you. Tia-LewiseRydia - Young battle 21:48, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

Speculative Trivia Edit

PFF PuPu


Well dualism is a theme strongly associated with Bhunivelze. This is seen in the black-and-white contrasting chequered element present in many places, such as Luxerion (a city devoted to the worship of Bhunivelze) and Hope's new scarf (to show he is really Bhunivelze's human host). Bhunivelze is both good and evil, seeing that he "wants the best for mankind" but his vision for humans is actually fairly evil from the humans' pov. His scythe has one angelic face and one demonic face, and he also himself has two faces, apparently. So I think all of this refers to his dualism as an overarching theme. I am doubtful of the Janus connections, though in making of him they could have looked into how deities are portrayed in other cultures and got some ideas. I'd rather bring up the dualism theme over Janus theory. Lindzei and Pulse may well represent the two sides of Bhunivelze as well, seeing as he really only ever planned to have two offspring and the unfortunate third one was unwanted.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 18:49, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

Just thought I'd contribute to this a little...I wrote about the Janus idea and can see how it might not be Trivia exactly. I was also going to put about how Bhunivelze's "first" head, although it isn't benign in the traditional sense it is more of a neutral face as befitting "God's" detached attitude toward humanity, whereas at the start of the second round with him Lightning points out the "true" face of god, that being a malevolent visage to behold, the true face, with the evil intent behind his goals to remove emotions. Is this speculation? or is this probable design? Not being a native Japanese speaker, I cannot vouch for certain whether the developers knew two-faced is an idiom in English, I would also second the duality of the gods as an overarching theme for the series of XIII. AdeusValcross (talk) 19:51, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

Poetic Justice?Edit

Anyone else think it's funny that after all the long years of Lindzei and Pulse making l'Cie tools of humans, Bhunivelze goes and summons his creations to be used as tools against Lightning in their fight? Or is that possibly an example of how they were crafted in their maker's image, they were tools for their callous creator, so they would make tools of humanity in response? AdeusValcross (talk) 23:04, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

They were created to serve the needs of Bhunivelze. They don't have chaos/souls within them, so they don't really have the power to rebel. Bhuivelze needed tools, he crafted them. Pulse and Lindzei are little more than fal'Cie, and the fal'Cie and l'Cie can equally be seen as tools. I don't think it's poetic justice, just a clear example of what was known all along: they were tools made to serve a purpose, given enough will and power to perform their tasks. Bhunivelze is like that: cold, calculating and always the perfectionist. --Crystal Tear (talk) 23:27, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
I think he's alluding to the tool aspect, seeing as they become a scythe, something that is used as a farming tool in the real world father than as a weapon.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 23:35, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
Yes to both of you, I know that Pulse and Lindzei don't have free will, and - I'm a bit fuzzy on this, but when B went to sleep the first time he ordered Lindzei to watch over him while Pulse created the world of Gran Pulse and the fal'Cie that cultivate the land, while searching for the Unseen Gate. I was trying to think of the right phrase for this last night, how the controller is also controlled, like the circle of death in FFX, one begets the other. They may not have free will but we know from Barthandelus they are capable of rebelling in their own way; he has voice and reason.

I suppose what I'm saying is everything the fal'Cie have done mirrors the actions of B originally. or, like in FFVIII, everything that happens in the game up to the point where you discover Ultimecia was possessing Edea, it's like that. Everything that the fal'Cie do, whether that's leaving their creations orphans, or branding them with tasks, is because that's what Bhunivelze did. Even though we don't really know about him or see him until LR, he is behind everything up to that point. It then couldn't be more in-your-face that Pulse and Lindzei are glorified tools when he summons them into a scythe. It would have been interesting to have to fight through Pulse and Lindzei as Bhunivelze's bodyguards, but they don't even get that modicum of respect; they have been central deities in the mythos, the two creator gods of Pulse and Cocoon, yet their only appearance is an ornate scythe wielded by Bhunivelze. Regarding B being a perfectionist, yes but far from perfect. Because he cannot see into human hearts he doesn't realise that free will makes you strong, not weak. He doesn't understand that emotions make you strong, not weak; the power of Lightning to want to even overthrow a god to see her sister again is something B would never understand. It's also the reason Vanille can't go through with the Soulsong; she loves and trusts Fang completely, which is a concept alien to big B. He thinks love is to be stripped of emotion and be the shell of god. But maybe he doesn't understand humans because he didn't create them? And that's why he was experimenting in his space-time Frankenstein laboratory to create better tools? Tools without emotions. I don't know, he's a very complex character considering we really don't have too many solid facts about him, he really is deus ex machina. Speaking of which, why is he humanoid? Or are we Bhunivelzeoid? AdeusValcross (talk) 11:23, March 6, 2014 (UTC)

How about we leave the philosophising to the userspace... Firebird (talk) 12:12, March 6, 2014 (UTC)

Etymology?Edit

In addition to above, a new question for anyone that knows Japanese/likelihood of this happening by accident: The Japanese for Beelzebub (the Devil) (according to Google translate is ベルゼブブ, and Bhunivelze is ブーニベルゼ. All four characters of Beelzebub appear in the Japanese for Bhunivelze, and three of them in the same order. Coincidence? or possibly more? AdeusValcross (talk) 12:15, March 6, 2014 (UTC)

You're seriously grasping at straws here. Firebird (talk) 19:41, March 6, 2014 (UTC)
Nice of you to point that out. I'm not so stupid as to futilely imply they're the same word, I was saying that since there are many Abrahamic theological references in the game, it's not implausible from an inspirational standpoint. I don't know how Japanese works so I wanted a native speaker to look at the similarities in the characters. Copy and paste the word into translate, take the first character and paste it at the back twice, then take out the second and third characters and it's beelzebub. If you did that to an English word it would be more than coincidence. AdeusValcross (talk) 20:39, March 6, 2014 (UTC)
Bhunivelze has some things in common with Lucifer Nelokles (talk) 05:32, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
To me it sounds a bit like a japanese pronunciation of "Universe" with a "B" at the beginning. It might be just that actually.Syuveill (talk) 19:22, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

Japanese and English Bhunivelze Edit

is it possible to expand on how the characterizationmis different? like citing actual text? im personally a little comfused on what suggestive means 75.72.220.214 01:30, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

Demiurge + Lucifer = Bhunivelze Edit

While Bhunivelze is similar to the Demiurge he is also more similar to The Devil(Though Demiurge is also called The Devil) as Bhunivelze is a Being of Light with a Seraph Appearance, Star of Light Associated and has fallen from grace by creating his own attack on The Creator(Mwynn) though unlike Lucifer Bhunivelze succeeded his plan on killing a universal creator Nelokles (talk) 03:48, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Seriously, people who consider FFXIII to be anti-religious should really read these threads. Syuveill (talk) 23:23, May 30, 2014 (UTC)
We consider it as Art rather than Anti-Religious that a character being based on both Lucifer and Demiurge is a more magnificent concept of character that it should be re-used sometimes Nelokles (talk) 05:14, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
I didn't mean you consider it anti-religious. It's quite the opposite actually. I read too much comments stating that humanity's rebellion against Bhunivelze, which is in appearance a God like figure in the trilogy, is satanic, sacrilegious, etc... But for someone who takes the trouble to analyse the symbolism behind the character (just like pretty much everyone does on this page) he clearly appears to have "evil" or at best ambivalent features. Syuveill (talk) 22:53, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
Bhunivelze also got his Wings Clipped before falling Graf Gaius (talk) 00:10, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
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