Gilgamesh: Enough expository banter!
This talk page is used for discussing improvements to the page "Bahamut (Final Fantasy XV)". It is not the place for general discussion or sharing stories about the topic of this article.
Bahamuts Gender

Are we sure Bahamut is Malein XV? Because to me,"He" has very feminine Eyes as you can see in the Battle against Ifrit. ~~

Bahamut looks like a man in the painting of the prophecy seen at the Citadel, and on the cover of Cosmogony. He is referred to as "he" in the Cosmogony books. He has "cartoon eyes" indeed though. Maybe they were going for strong contrast with how mechanical and cold the rest of him is. He is supposed to look benevolent rather than threatening when he addresses Noctis at least.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 03:49, February 10, 2017 (UTC)
Bahamut's eyes in the scene during Ifrit's Battle are NOWHERE NEAR feminine. They look very masculine.

Who is Bahamut's (english) voice actor? My guess would have to be either Ike Amadi or David Lodge, based on whose names I saw in the end credits.

Is Bahamut the real villain of the FFXV Universe?[edit source]

Here's an interesting fan theory that's been on my mind lately: Based on the tentative synopsis for "Episode Noctis", I'm guessing Noct will learn that the truth about the Astrals and Ardyn's downfall; Bahamut was using the Crystal as a figurehead to justify his decision to throw the chancellor under the bus when it was more than possible to cleanse him of his impurity, courtesy of a catastrophe (that may actually be) of Bahamut's own making in an effort to "purchase mankind's undying fidelity". In other words, Bahamut may have been instructed to heal Ardyn's corruption, but instead went and pushed Ardyn off the proverbial cliff into madness, and the Draconian may have secretly manipulated the people of Solheim into denouncing the Astrals as an excuse to discourage them from following Ifrit's formerly benevolent example. I am starting to believe that Bahamut had actually used the royal bloodline for his personal amusement, and sent Noctis on a suicide mission to destroy a monster of the Astrals' making. Noct and Luna deserved better than this, and I imagine Noct will be like, "You were wrong! ALL OF YOU WERE WRONG!"*, when he sees the true nature of Bahamut, and hopefully things will go how I think they will.

--GokaiWhite (talk) 04:24, June 16, 2018 (UTC)

It's starting to look like I was right about that monster Bahamut after all: Not only did Somnus screw up big time, Bahamut let him off scot-free! In fact, I think he was the one who brought the Starscourge into Eos to turn Ifrit, or the people of Solheim, or both evil to justify setting off so much tragedy and sorrow. I don't know what exactly his motivations are, aside from caring less about humanity than about the planet itself, which he sees as his personal sandbox of sorrow, but I'm certainly looking forward to the Dawn of the Future, where Bahamut's true intentions are explained and he gets what he deserves.

True motivation?[edit source]

I'm starting to think that maybe Bahamut had his Terraflare incident covered up, and did all those terrible things because he was scared of how future generations would judge him, if and when they do find out. Bahamut saw what he was doing with the kings and oracles as something that would earn him the gratitude and devotion of Eos' people, that they would care less about the methods he used, and Ardyn's selfless actions for the sake of the many sparked about as much jealousy and resentment on Bahamut's end as it did Somnus, that people are more prone to listening to an idealist than a god or a king who used extreme methods right off the bat, without searching for a better way. The God of War refused to admit his misguidedness and couldn't take it that humanity will never let go of it's classical sense of morality, that they will always judge him as a self-serving hypocrite and treat him no better than the daemons he wants exterminated, recalling the phrase in an early trailer,

"There is no good or evil, but thinking makes it so." ~ Shakespeare.

Over time, his already strong fear of such admonishment and his obsession with destroying the scourge at any cost both got worse until finally he decides to destroy everything, just to escape the consequences of his making mistakes to cover up his biggest one. I guess this goes to show that even supreme gods can be afraid of how their people view them. It took being defeated by Noctis and Ardyn for the god to realize that all he did was give humanity more justified reasons to hate him, and he no longer deserves their worship and allegiance for thinking the greater good of Eos depended entirely on his arrogance and self-preservation. Bahamut had given in to fear, but accepting his and, by extension, the other Astrals' deaths with dignity not only allowed for the scourge to disappear forever, but also freed them from an eternity of enduring the profound guilt of mankind's scorn and disgust at them on their collective conscience.

In the end, it was the Astrals who were the few that had to be sacrificed for the many.

--GokaiWhite (talk) 20:13, May 21, 2019 (UTC)

STOP trying to justify the Bahamut's corrupt fatalism[edit source]

I don't care what the naysayers thinks: Bahamut is a big fat LIAR, who had the cosmogeny texts falsified at his request to keep humanity ignorant of his true nature. He did almost EVERYTHING WRONG, and I'm sick of people trying to paint The Dawn of the Future as non-canon. It's like saying Kingsglaive is non-canon, or like how Shinra covered up the Nibelheim Incident. And there are plenty explanations I can think of to refute the statements of naysayers, like the original ending only happened in Noctis' mind during his crystal stasis.

--GokaiWhite (talk) 06:24, June 18, 2019 (UTC)

Actually, I sorta misspoke; I prefer to look at this situation as being similar to Type-0, where the unhappy ending had to happen in the first playthrough before getting a better, more definite ending in a new game plus. I do not mean to be biased, I just wish to find the right balance between being a realist and and idealist.

--GokaiWhite (talk) 08:57, June 18, 2019 (UTC)

Stop adding these insane diatribes to the article talk pages. These are for discussing the article content only.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 10:03, June 18, 2019 (UTC)

Canonity etc[edit source]

Seems there are two schools of thought on how the "expanded universe" affected the story. One camp sees it as revealing Bahamut's true personality that was concealed and merely hinted at in the main game, and some see the expanded universe as a "what if" in WHAT IF Bahamut was the actual villain and not Ardyn, then how would it play out? Now which version should be present on the article?

If there is no official "stance" on this I don't think we should take one either, and just put whatever is shown about him in the main game, and then put whatever is shown about him in the Episode Ardyn and Dawn of the Future content, and then just leave it at that (reader decide for themselves how to take it). It currently says in the intro that he is characterised differently between the main game and EU, so it is acknowledged as neutrally as I could think of putting it.

If there is a dev interview or a tweet or something where SE addresses this, it would be a good citation (but then only just quote them and not twist it). Or maybe the English version of the Dawn of the Future might still clarify it. Or maybe it could be a Trivia bullet point though not sure how to phrase it.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:39, June 22, 2019 (UTC)

That works for me; also sorry if it came across with my edits as pushing it too much to the other side. I mainly thought it important to note the stark different in depiction of the character as well as the novel being in a semi-weird state, but I can definitely see it didn't really look good in the article itself now.

That being said, would it be alright if we removed the 'newly revealed hatred for humanity' bit in the inspiration thing towards the bottom and instead just changed it to something like 'in his appearance in Dawn of the Future' or something? It seems a bit slanted as it is now. Of course that's totally fine if not! Either way, sorry for the trouble with the article. 22:14, June 22, 2019 (UTC)

Edited a bit, clearer now maybe? They do seem to have wanted to make Bahamut like Bhunivelze in the Dawn of the Future, which makes me wonder if this was a planned Versus storyline (one of many possible versions probably). We'll never know for sure, because they will never mention cancelled games.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 16:19, June 23, 2019 (UTC)

That looks perfect, thank you!! And I agree; reading the novel, Bahamut basically just feels like Bhunivelze in dragon armor to the point that they're almost the same character. For me personally it's another reason I question DotF as a whole, but that's neither here nor there. Either way, thank you for the work with the article and in general the mediation of both viewpoints on this one!

Also, sorry the formatting is kinda weird for my replies on this page - I'm relatively new to active wikia use. 05:51, June 26, 2019 (UTC)

If you click the arrow in the edit button, you can edit in source mode that shows you all the formatting. It's usually much easier to do things precisely in that mode (and just copy the formatting of previous work so it appears the same way), and the preview mode still shows how the final work will look. Text indents in source mode by putting a colon in front of what you'll write, and :: and ::: to indent more. It's the same mediawiki stuff that Wikipedia and other wikis use. If you make an account you can choose a favoured editing mode as your default, but anonymous editing is cool here too.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:43, June 26, 2019 (UTC)
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