Thanks to Drake for the awesome trailer:
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Having talked with Scathe and several other users, I am going to reboot the Let's Play project by LPing VII. The reason I chose VII, other than having it on Steam and being able to easily record it with Fraps or something, is that VII is a game I think we can all agree that we can talk about for ages and, while some like it more than others, we're all fans in some way. The reason I chose to LP the project? Well, college is over, I have never been in an LP and would love to be in one, and any excuse to play VII again is an excuse I will take.
And there you have it! I hope I can get this started as soon as my cruise starts and is over in a couple weeks time. Til it starts, I will record as much gameplay footage as I can.-- Technobliterator TC 21:20, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
Process of recording
I think I will make a few changes to the process of LP recording.
I'm going to start recording it. I will probably post the footage I record on Google Drive or Dropbox. This way, if I ever need to take a break from the LPing, the project does not have to stop. I can give it to someone else to host for a couple weeks.
Teams of LPers
The team selection shouldn't be random, and day selection shouldn't be fixed either. I plan on selecting teams based on how well the users blend together (hopefully we have no user in there who is silent most of the time) and on a certain point in the game. This is not a strict selection by any means. It's just to hopefully improve the overall quality.
I suggest using Google Hangouts. Why? This way, it avoids the hassle of using whatever was used before. A Google Hangout can be recorded as is. It also allows the people involved to view a YouTube video straight in the Hangout, and upload that Hangout straight to YouTube. It's very easy to join too. This might help things.
However, we might not have to, because of:
If no one opposes, we can use Twitch. We have a Twitch account for the wiki.
Sign your username here if you wish to participate.
- -- Technobliterator TC 21:20, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
- C A T U S E 21:26, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
- --BlueHighwindツ 21:26, July 10, 2014 (UTC) - I AM THE EGGMAN.
- Fëasindë Peth 21:27, July 10, 2014 (UTC) I AM THE WALRUS
- T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L - Sure.
- Drake Clawfang (talk) 22:36, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
- -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 23:03, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
- ScatheMote 04:13, July 11, 2014 (UTC) - Perhaps just one or two videos.
- 05:23, July 11, 2014 (UTC) - Like Scathe, maybe for one or two.
- Tia-Lewise 08:21, July 11, 2014 (UTC) Absolutely.
- Beep. — YuanSalut 23:11, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
- --FireKnight251 15:44, July 12, 2014 (UTC)
- bleep bloop fuck the turret Hexed 04:30, July 14, 2014 (UTC)
- Make way for the latecomer to all of this! 01:36, July 20, 2014 (UTC)
- Jimcloud 19:27, July 28, 2014 (UTC)
Normally I hate the use of polls for any wiki-related discussion. But I don't think they're too bad here. Mainly because, though they can be manipulated and don't represent actual opinions most of the time, this time it's simple public demand and I don't need any specifics. So;
- Aeris name
Poll was: What should Aeris be named?
- Aeris - 2 votes
- Aerith - 5 votes
- Slum Drunk - 6 votes
While Slum Drunk won, it did not fit. So she is named Aerith.
- Third party member (Cloud and Tifa are 1 and 2)?
- Don Corneo
Poll was: Who will Don Corneo take?
- Cloud - 4
- Tifa - 0* u wot m8
- Aerith - 3
Cloud won by one vote. And Cloud was who Don Corneo took in the recording. I could use footage from another LP to show what would have happened if Corneo took someone else, however...
- Red XIII
Poll was: What should Red XIII be named?
- Red XIII - 6
- Nanaki - 2
Red XIII won by a decently long way.
- The date scene I'm dating Tifa btw
Poll was: Who is Cloud's enemy?
- The EDK
- The King
- That Knight
- The audio on a fight or two with the Turks is bugged. My idea was to replace the audio, but not with the music in-game, but with other music from the series. So, I'd like to ask you first for the immediate battle, and secondly for in future.
Poll was: For this particular battle, what music shall play during the Turks fight?
- Battle on the Big Bridge from V
- Steiner's Theme from IX
- The Decisive Battle from VI
- Just use the battle theme from VII's OST
VII OST won.
Poll was: In future Turks fights?
- Use the VII OST
- Use any of the tracks suggested above (or suggest your own)
- Use any music from the FF series
- Keep using the track that won the poll
- Use any music from any videogame, regardless of being series or not
We basically decided on leaving as it was.
- I hate minigames. Especially Chocobo ones. For many reasons. Anyway, I'm dreading Chocobo minigames as much as I am editing them. But I will do them if you want me to. So
Poll was: When getting a Gold Chocobo...
- Raise Chocobos, do the minigame!
- Fight the Weapon instead
- Die to the Weapon and do minigame after like with Zolom
Chocobos were raised. Sigh.
Final Episodes Poll
Okay, this is important. For the final episodes I have two plans. This final episode involves splitting up the parties into 3 different teams of LPers and parties of FFVII characters. So the plans are:
- Use an FFVII mod for three different parties with different party leaders once the splitting screen comes on. This will be incredibly hard to do and take ages, and probably delay the LP by at least a month or two, however it could be interesting.
- Go through each area with the same party, and instead, the different LPer teams can be "three possible options of routes", like there are 3 possible routes in the game. The easier method.
Leave general comments here, in a h3.
Old random updates
I no longer use Comments for updates, they now go at the top of the forum, but removing content from discussions is obviously not allowed so click "show" if you want to see them.
Update: So, I previously expressed concerns that Fraps may destroy my framerate. That is not the case. I can record on Fraps absolutely fine, BUT, and this isn't that big of a but, it doesn't seem to like me recording the FMV videos. Worst comes to worst, I'll grab them from YouTube and just record gameplay, if that's alright?
Update 2: Nevermind. I am currently in a position where I can record almost perfectly, using HyperCam2. My only problem is I need to reinterleave audio and video and I'm not sure how to do that...can anyone help?
Aaaand I seem to be recording just fine now. I am recording everything up to each Save Point, for the record. Playing this game is fun.
I can't apologise enough. But the episode 21st July is cancelled. It's simply not practical for me. I can't record at the time because I will wake up the whole house and I have no good mic. In fact in general it'd just be trash. I don't want a trash episode as the first one up.The users (Catuse, Scathe, BlueHighwind) can still make their debut in the first LP episode. But it just will not be the 21st of July. I can't do it. I'm so sorry for failing to deliver on promises. But I'm just letting so many people down. Okay, I'll go sulk somewhere else.
I'm skeptical about this idea. Sure, FFVII LP might be finished due to its popularity and maybe few others, but after some time when another project will pop up it will die in the middle, like the FFX one. The only reason I see doing the revival is making some kind of break between LP, month or two maybe, so it could calm down. Still, since I'm about at the end of the game, I might as well sign up, but that depends if I'll have time and opportunity.—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) ∙ 21:31, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
- Don't worry about that. The way I'm doing it, any other user can easily take over from me using my footage at any point if they so wish. Also, Drake has his own "break LP" idea in mind, it should be alright.
- I understand your skepticism. These are issues I've considered and I can hopefully avoid. :P-- Technobliterator TC 21:34, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
Sorry Tidus357 :(
Godammit you stole my idea
I had Fraps downloaded and my FFVII Steam ready to go when I see this. Sigh. I'm glad you're doing it though. - 12:38, July 12, 2014 (UTC)
I talked to Techno on IRC and he agreed with an idea I had: stream the recording session on Google Hangouts on Twitch. This'll be more interactive(?) by allowing users to ask questions that the commentators can answer, and imo will make the format less formal, which, given all the debate in previous LPs over how serious/professional LPers should be, is probably a good thing. Also, down the road, the FFWiki stream could play through Type-0 in English, or other FF or wiki-related content. It doesn't seem like much of a technical difficulty, so if it works, why not?
I support the Twitch recording mostly for the reasons Cat's mentioned. If we were to do it that way, then we wouldn't have to use Google Hangouts (but still could), as it is still possible to upload straight from Twitch to YouTube. The only thing this would mean is we should probably make an FFWiki account on Twitch.EDIT: nvm, Cat has made an account already.
Mhm, I'll probably still use a privately uploaded YouTube video for the commentators. But everyone else can watch the LP as it is being commentated on with Twitch.
If Twitch's delay is a problem, you could always try hitbox.tv since the delay for that is considerably shorter (about 5 seconds usually).
Also, if commentators are going to be interacting with the chat throughout the recording, you might want to consider capturing the chat box and then editing that into the YouTube video, so that people watching later can see what questions and stuff you're all responding to. --Leon95 17:53, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
...no poll for the date partner? Man, if you're going to just go ahead and pick one without offering a choice, at least pick the best one. i.e. Yuffie. The Aeris and Tifa ones aren't that interesting, and the Barret one... is too much effort even if it were funnier than the Yuffie one, which it isn't. Nothing is funnier than the Yuffie one.
YOU CAN NEVER TAKE MY WAIFU FROM ME. NEVEEEEEEEEERI'm planning on using footage from other sources and showing all of the possible date scenes in that episode. That allows the other users in that episode to comment on all of the scenes. I'll only show the bits with variation (ie when they come to Cloud's room, the fireworks thing) as the play is the same on all but Barret's. So don't worry, the Yuffie date scene will be in.
Can haz moar infos?
According to the main page, the first stream is sometime today or tomorrow, which is really rather vague for this point in time. There may well be something going on IRC, but there are doubtless people out there who are looking to the wiki itself, the wiki Twitter, the wiki Twitch... none of which have anything. The wiki says to stay posted for more details, which isn't a great deal of help when no more details have been forthcoming and we've now hit the window of time in question.
Naturally, I know from my own past LP participation that it's entirely possible something hasn't been nailed down yet (and I daresay streaming it brings even more complications), but given that the notice was able to be as specific as this weekend from *checks* two and a half weeks ago, it's unfortunate that it's not managed to get more specific in the time between then and the start of, well, this weekend. It's going to make it kind of hard for people to know when it's starting, at this short notice.
It wouldn't even matter if the update were that something's come up and there'll be another reschedule. It'd just help the audience (which, funnily enough I am part of, as may be the LPers on episodes they don't participate in) for there to be an update at all, y'know?
Auto-updating JS scripts and the like should be coming soon. Can probably be implemented into the Sitenotice too.
Gotta say, I didn't expect it to be as early as 16:00 UTC, because timezones. I was rather counting on it being more this kind of time or later. Oh well, these things happen. But yeah, really hoping there's considerably more advance notice of the specific time for the next stream. As for this episode, I'll probably check it out tomorrow.
Focus of the LP
My involvement in today's episode left me with mixed feelings.
I spoke with Jimcloud and asked her what she had thought about the episode. Her response was that, overall, she had not found the broadcast funny. Now, this would be an issue itself, and I'll get to that in a moment, but when I heard this, I felt that she was missing the point of the project, that we were not here to be "funny".
And then I realised that she was in the position the exact same thing to me. What exactly is the point of the LP then?
LP's have different purposes depending on the people behind them. While many people produce comedic LP's, with witty commentary and an abundance of jokes, some people produce more straightforward videos meant to illustrate and provide more insightful, though not necessarily unfunny, commentary.
Coupled with the unfocused nature of today's episode, I must again be that guy and urge users to stay on topic. As tempting as it is to go on tangents and derail the conversation for funny(?) purposes, we must remember that there is an audience that does not necessarily belong to the Wiki or that is familiar with our in-jokes and idiosyncrasies. While we shouldn't tie ourselves up to the footage, we should at least be conscious about the people who will watch this, and who might want to hear more about the game itself than not hear you being "random" or "funny".This brings me back to the question of defining the purpose of the LP. I think that before we carry on, we should be able to answer this simple question: what exactly are we trying to do with this Let's Play? What is the purpose of it?
To have fun and entertain viewers.
We have viewers? If we're trying to define a purpose, we should at least try to figure out what our viewers want to watch first, but that requires a lot of such people to exist.
Until then, we just have to have the same purpose we've had for two years, which JBed summed up in Forum:FFWiki Let's Play Idea:
Which isn't a great mission statement, because having a YouTube channel that hosts a project that exists so that we can have a reason to have a YouTube channel is ... recursive. Still, if nobody has any better ideas...
Uninformative? I tried, had the wiki open reading from the page about date mechanics and everything. Kinda got drowned out by everyone yelling over each other during the train scene (partially my fault), but I tried.Also, the lack of humor can apparently be resolved by having everyone have a twitch chat popout open. The amount of snark in the chat that never made it into the LP itself saddens me greatly.
I couldn't really say it much better than Drake. The main focus of the LP was always having fun. That said, this was the first episode, and it was coupled with first episode problems. First episode was mostly just testing the waters and trying things out. So I don't think you should be so harsh just yet. Anyways, how much it stays on topic probably depends on the users involved and the events of the game. I'll do my best to keep it more on topic next time.
"To have fun and entertain viewers" does not answer the question at all, inasmuch as "having fun" is too vague an idea. Who is supposed to have fun? Us? The viewers? Also, entertaining and producing comedy are distinct things. I don't always laugh when I'm being entertained.It seems to me that the focus of the LP seems to be tacitly agreed to be comedic though.
I'm not entirely sure there's supposed to be any significant focus or goal to be achieved that isn't a vague one. When you have so many different users involved with all their different personalities, it's very difficult to have one. I also feel it's difficult to have a specific goal when we're also supposed to have fun. If you are too limiting, then you're no longer having fun, you're just following instructions.
To me, the main goal was always that we have fun while making it. Most of the positive feedback I've seen from other LPs has always been that the users had fun while doing it. That said, as you have rightly pointed out, there is an audience out there. We should not ignore that audience, but definitely for an episode or two, then figuring out what people want is best. Honestly, as far as I can tell, people just want to watch a playthrough that they find fun to watch. As I've often found when discussing several things about the Wiki's content, in fact, as soon as your discussion goes to "a random viewer wants x", you are dealing with hypothetical subjectivity, so you will never really be 'right'. In this case, I think it's best we ask for subjectivity that isn't hypothetical, which is to say, we ask our own users. Unless there's a way of asking the viewers who aren't wiki or former wiki members.
If we are to have a better idea of what we're doing here - and I agree that we should - then it should not be a narrow or concrete goal. Comedic value is definitely something that we want to see a lot of, but not too many in-jokes either. How about we restrict it to ones that the average FF fan may get, and maybe ones that someone who, I dunno, has read one of the walkthroughs or seen a past LP might get, is fine. Cutting down on offtopic references the way to go about it? And maybe showing more of the stuff on Twitch chat?Hope this isn't too much of a wall, and hope I've explained properly. ._. If you want a tl;dr, I agree with cutting down on some offtopicness that an FF fan wouldn't get, and/or asking the wiki members what they want instead of thinking what a random viewer might want as we can never really know that.
[09:29:19] <Yuanchosaan> Technobliterator: Oh, I forgot to comment on the forum, but:
[09:29:59] <Yuanchosaan> I feel that one of the focuses of our LP - not *the* focus, but someone unique we can offer as a wiki, is insight into some of the less known parts of the game, in terms of lore, bugs, gameplay, development etc.
I am sure you are all aware of this, and while I'm not watching any of these episodes myself, I thought I'd bring this up. Due to recent events of Google buying out Twitch for $1 billion, Google has decided that if your stream has any copyrighted music at all, even if it's in-game audio, the stream/video is automatically muted. This has already happened to quite a few videos on Twitch, INCLUDING tournaments such as a DoTA2 tournament I've heard about, which was on Twitch's OWN streaming channel.
So, in order to keep this going for you guys without any technical issues, what do you plan on doing? Will you continue sticking with Twitch and hope the video doesn't get muted? Or will you use other methods of streaming such as Livestream/Ustream/Hitbox?Also to point this out right now, since I've had this happen in the past, don't expect me to join in on any of these. For one, I don't know what the times are for this, but mostly due to my speech itself. Add onto the fact that I may or may not even say a single word anyways unless I was doing the video myself, and well...just wouldn't work out. I've had people in the past ask me if I would like to join some of these LPs (I believe this was back when MQ was being done? I forget...I'm pretty sure both Drake and Jim asked me this, as well as a couple other people), so just throwing that out there.
EDIT CONFLICT: In any case, there's no reason to even touch the VODs, let alone get audio from them and have to deal with archaic* copyright law, since Techno is just taking the videos that already exist and dubbing our audio recordings over them. Twitch VODs have bloody awful quality, anyways. And, of course, Twitch doesn't bother to check for copyright in live streams, only recordings.
*So, lawyer-speak (or at least I assume) for "really goddamn stupid"
I suppose so. Though who knows what they may try to do with livestreams...really hard to say in that event. I'm assuming the VODs are the video archives anyways...
In most cases I won't use the vods as anything other than a backup in worst case scenarios when everyone's individual recording goes wrong.
Talk to me, peoples
Before I begin, I don't want people to be alarmed by this, I don't want people to think I'm guilt tripping, and no, the project is not in a bad spot. I think we need to take steps to ensure it doesn't fall into one.
I feel like everyone is enjoying the project except for me. And tell you the truth, my main motivation other than proving the narcissists wrong was that if the 15 or so who signed up, and the 20 or so regulars whp watch the YouTube videos are having fun and me, a single new user is not having fun, then that is a good trade.
Let me give some insight as to why I am not enjoying it, or rather, am enjoying it less than the others. Firstly, ever since episode 1, I've sat through each episode very conscious of the final product. Every second resembling an awkward silence, every recording problem, every small offtopic non-FF discussion just gives me the feeling of "fuck, will people want to watch this?" Yet, how do I deal with that without making LP unfun? And if the LPers themselves really enjoy it, then who the fuck am I to stop them?
And another challenge is picking the teams. Our current setup has me choosing teams I think may work well together. But I also have to consider which will involve a) the least awkward silences, b) the best synergy and c) the most interesting. But firstly, I am terrible choosing teams now, especially for people I don't know as well as others, and then, I have to worry about people yet to be included in episodes. I do not want to exclude people on the basis I have friends on the wiki I know better than others. I honestly can consider pretty much everyone a friend.So I get the feeling there's too much pressure put on me. I just wanted to know how everyone feels. Am I doing a horrible job? Are people enjoying the LP? Is there any more efficient way to do what's being done?
Nobody watches the Let's Play except the FFWiki and like 5 random people on the Internet, so the final product means jack all.
Going to clarify, I've talked to more people on IRC, and the reception has been even better than I expected so far, people seem to genuinely be enjoying it. I only posted this because I wanted to check that, and since I have felt burdened, I was hoping it'd at least be productive. Rest assured, project continues fine. Each episode has been fun, and playing the game is super fun. It was just the stress of my typical being way too critical of myself, having to organise stuff and not let people down, and use an OS I'm not comfortable with that induced the above feelings.
Bonus Episode 4
Since Blue did the NES FF7 as a homage to the FF8 LP, I'm gonna do a homage to the FF6 LP for the Disc 2-3 transition... by playing Pony Fantasy 6.
I'm looking to record Sunday the 9th. Who's in?
I'm obviously fine with doing it, sadly I couldn't make it to the NES FF7 one but I can definitely make this. Will be fun.
I will not take part because ponies are terrible. Seriously, ponies?
Ponies are great. If you want me then sure, I'll participate.
I'm calling this one off, no one wants in and no one aside from Arma that's able to participate knows ponies anyway.
Bonus Episode 5
Our fifth bonus episode will be a Let's Watch of Advent Children Complete hosted by me. The movie is two-hours long and the hour mark is about the end of the Forgotten Capital scenes and the return to Edge. So, do we wanna chop up the Let's Watch into two hour-long segments with three different people with me for each half, or the same group watches the whole film? Either way, need sign-ups.
I'm torn. On the one hand, it's a podcast, so it's annoying to tell people to "turn this part on at minute x", on the other hand having to sit down for 2 hours watching the same thing ain't easy...
I think release the parts as one podcast video but give minute markers in description for each scene, and split it into 3 parts to record and 3 different groups, personally. We should also say in desc "mute your Complete Collection audio while watching" and maybe give viewers a countdown of 5 seconds before they hit play on the video. The same countdown for when we hit play before recording anyway.I'd say for signups we can use the same people who signed up to the main LP, but I want to be in Tifa's fight with Loz.
Never seen Advent Children, but I wouldn't mind being in on this.
And we wouldn't be saying "turn this part on at minute x" - it would be continuously paced. So 1:03:00 in the podcast would corrospond to 1:03:00 in ACC, etc.
Sorry Catuse, I stepped inside your bubble. Not moving it.
Vid or Podcast (read: copyright)
Do be clear, do we do this as an audio-only podcast, or like the LP vids where we upload the ACC vid, edited into different parts and with our commentary, to our YT?
Honestly, copyright shouldn't be a problem. I'm using a Japanese subtitled version of the vid (so viewers don't need to listen to dialogue to follow the film), it'll have us talking over it, and the vid in question I'll be using is the full Japanese movie, which has been on YT since August 2013. We're unlikely to get in trouble.
I'd rather not toe the line on legal stuff, if this comes back to bite us (not saying that it will, only that it might) it reflects poorly on us as a wiki. In addition, it gets the video banned in certain countries, which would be bad.