8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 05:53, 9 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
Comrade Faethin and I have noticed the debate over using certain epithets to name characters on our pages, such as the now I have a few suggestions as to how we may sort this out, revolving around sorting names by types of titles.
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Master Conjurer — (talk) 06:49, 9 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
I am happy to see a decision. Before ILHI and I shout, "Take it to the MoS!" I would request that #4's "more often than not" be a phrase at least closer to "always." My opinion is that we need the rules to be as close to Boolean (all or nought) as possible. | |||
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...This may be a bit crazy, but how about... Leave Judge Gabranth as he normally is and make a new article about "Noah fon Ronsenburg" from before he was known as Judge Gabranth. This is like Wikipedia having seperate articles for Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader. | |||
But the Noah article would be very, very, short. Keep it as it is. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 18:41, 9 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
I am not sure about XII Judges using their surnames in their titles. Noah fon Ronsenburg picked "Gabranth" because it was his mother's maiden name and he wished to leave his past behind. This is kind of a surname.... as for Zargabaath, Drace, and the others, I don't know. Ultimania anyone? @ILHI: I don't understand your analogy between Golbez and Gabranth. If we remove "Judge" and leave "Gabranth", his real name is still hidden. We have nothing to move Golbez to but "Theodor Harvey", because he has not been given a title such as "Dark Chancellor Golbez". I actually kind of like the idea of taking away Loire and Kramer from Raine and Edea. This means Garnet gets to keep her title and there won't be any musings about moving her to Dagger :D Back on the titling issue and Rule #4: When some titles are used to indicate an honorable position, superiors, inferiors, and enemies may choose if they wish to sue the title or not. Brahne does not bother calling her most famous knight "General Beatrix", but lower soldiers do, and the protagonists somewhat on and off. | |||
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I would be in favor of removing the titles as well. For the Judge issue, remove the title, as I recall in XII Gabranth is usually called just "Gabranth". But if we have last names, they should be kept, like Edea and Raine. Gabranth and Golbez are different because they are most often referred to by their aliases, in-game that is.
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Master Conjurer — (talk) 19:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
I agree as well with the removal of all titles, but with the keeping of all surnames and "actual" names. I think Golbez should be under Theodore Harvey. | |||
BlueHighwind Q? 19:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
EDIT CONFLICTER GETS TO DIE NOW: Drake, the Gabranth issue is only in his battle name. And that's probably more of a space issue than anything else. As for Judge names, I have no clue where 8bit thought up that maiden name story. If there even is any naming pattern behind Judge names, it doesn't matter because it was never mentioned in FFXII. This isn't a plot hole, this is just a missing detail. | |||
*rings buzzer*
I should get a YouTube clip of that. Wrong, Blue. Drace, Vayne, and in one scene even Basch, refer to him as "Gabranth", no title, several times. By comparison, he's called "Judge Gabranth" only twice, by Al-Cid and Vaan once each. "Basch" is called "Judge Magister Gabranth" a few times in the ending as well, though in the context of the scene it's inapplicable since everyone uses their official names and titles in it (ie, Ashe uses her full name too). | |||
BlueHighwind Q? 23:58, 9 June 2009 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
I guess the point I'm really trying to make here is that IT DOESN'T MATTER. You're not making a mountain out of a moehill, you're making a mountain out of NOTHING. How pathetic are we that we even need to discuss titles with this much depth? Just go with whatever feels the most natural to the character. Must we have a rule for everything? Of course we do, because we are a gaggle of diseased robots that cannot function without specific instructions from the hive mind. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 01:11, 10 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
@Blue: Taken from Judge Gabranth's page: During the invasion, Basch fled their hometown, to the Dalmasca, while Noah moved with his sickly mother to Archadia, her homeland. There, he adopted his mother's surname Gabranth, and joined the Archadian Military. Now, I didn't add that in, but I'm assuming it's correct. That's why I asked "Ultimania anyone?" @MC: That would be rather spoilerish... you would know Cecil and Golbez are brothers right off the bat. Should we move Garnet to "Sarah", since that is her real name? @ILHI: No, I don't think we should move Gabranth to Noah, nor Golbez to Theodor. Also, I didn't mean Garnet should get to keep her "Princess", I meant that she is "Garnet til Alexandros XVII". Not Dagger. @Drake: Hmm, you do have a point. Why shouldn't we call Gabranth "Judge Magister Gabranth" instead of just "Judge"? I think there's the problem of Judgemaster Cid; without his title he's just Cid... can we make an exception there? @Blue again: If you don't care, don't say anything. The point of this thread was so that the admins do not just give orders to the "diseased robots" and name pages as we wish. As you can see, I'm trying to be open here. Perhaps I should take your advice and totally disregard this issue, wait for users to make their own personal moves, and then rollback any that I don't like. </sarcasm> Your "goes with whatever feels the most natural" whim is nebulous. | |||
BlueHighwind Q? 12:17, 10 June 2009 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
I never said anything about the "admins" being the problem. I know your powers are minor. I said "hive mind". As in all of us. As for "whatever feels the most natural", perhaps it should be clearer. First of all, always having titles is stupid. And never having is equally as stupid. Both are completely arbitrary designations and most likely would take away from the best possible names for the articles (if such a things exists, I'm doubtful, but this thread seems to be assuming so):
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8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 04:03, 13 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
I'm kind of leaning towards ILHI's view. We need exceptions in some cases as BlueH pointed out, like with Judgemaster Cid. Still, though, there are some characters that just don't seem right without a title. And Tactics characters need to stay with their position. | |||
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BlueLionheart - "Be careful, dear friend, lest you fall into the endless ocean of stars..." - 水風死 TALK - 18:56, 13 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
This is the dumbest topic I think we've had since forum changes were blocked from the RC. Who cares about this kind of thing, anyway? Anyways, the only people who should have titles in their page names are Judges, monarchs, and people like General Beatrix, who I don't believe have first names to put. The others, like Cecil, for example, who have military titles, should have them put in the little table thingy that's on their page. | |||