This forum continues at Forum:Some suggestions for major changes II.
- Like Topic Forums be merged - Bluerfn - Mastered!
- Midgar Press News Format - Bluerfn - Mastered!
- Improved mediums for people to submit fanstuff - Crazyswordsman
- More defined rules about WikiDumping and how we aren't Wikipedia - Diablocon
Hi. I want to suggest some major changes in the wiki, but I really need more suggestions and feedbacks.
I like everything else, but If the forums are to be merged will the names change?
Most likely. But that needs discussion and consent from the moderators themselves, and admins.I'm glad the other changes are likable. Do you have any suggestions to add?
As Forum merging we should combine the Sanctuary of Zi'tah and the Returner's Hideout - they're both after fan work and are out least used Forums so bunching them together seems to be a wise move. Also The Sandsea's Tavern doesn't have any really niche.But as for a major change suggestion here's mine: make a Mark-Up Page for Walkthroughs. I have gotten at least three requests over the months as to how to make a walkthrough. And I am sick of answering them.
Hmm, markups need to be addressed to Hecko. Seeing that you are the walkthrough expert in FFWiki, you might also help write the guide.If anyone doesn't object, I'm transforming the Midgar Press in about twenty minutes from my talkbox time.
Just be careful with sidebar: The more things you put on the sidebar, the further it pushes the search box (and toolbox and wikia) down. Also toolbox and wikia sections can not be changed iirc
That's right. But we're not adding anything; just want to organize it into neat sub... something or other.Please add more suggestions?
Let's see, for the Midgar Press, I'm going to move all the comments and discussions into nice little headings in the Midgar Press talk page. Then I'll just rewrite the whole stuff and make them all properly written, and then make some links into the said talk page for comments. Very good, no?Brace yourselves. I'm not kidding. Please welcome the new Midgar Press!
Edit conflict. Oooh, I'm shaking :P. Good luck! How about changing the little picture that appears next to the site's adress? I'm talking about the one that appears next to the Wiki's link when, for example, you add the site to your favorites. It seems to be a very detailed image, but it's so tiny I haven't really even figured out what it's supposed to be. Let's use something else, like a Chocobo sprite or something.
The Favicon, that's what its called, is supposed to be the FFTA grimoire. I support using a Chocobo sprite, they are the mascot of FF. BTW, FFCompendium.com used Mog.I'm still working out the kinks for the Midgar Press. It'll be ready soon.
NO MERGED FORUMS.
"But as for a major change suggestion here's mine: make a Mark-Up Page for Walkthroughs. I have gotten at least three requests over the months as to how to make a walkthrough. And I am sick of answering them."Welcome to my world. I can see the point of this, but experience has taught me that 49 out of 50 newcomers won't read the markup pages anyway and will ask you regardless of the page existing and providing the exact information they need. Actually, I'm making this a general thing, because most idiots out there don't read the video info of a video on e.g. YouTube, before asking a (dumbass) question, like "what song is this?", "what game is this?", etc., despite the info being stated already.
I'm glad we have admins supporting some of the suggestions. Unfunnyly, some of these changes can't be made by a normal user like me. (srsly, can it be done?)at least our voices are heard.
True, the merging of forums will need Sysop... ehh... abilities (you know what I mean). But since the fora are vague about what they should contain, I won't be touching anything. Consider that a hint to a suggestion (caption on the forum index telling you what forum is for what stuff, without one having to enter/exit all of them and only getting a vague idea that you'd forget after a day anyway)
I'd change the side-bar, but I'm not sure how. I mean, I know what to do, I just can't find the place to edit it.Also, my suggestion is just to rework the rules on WikiDumping and such, make them more concrete. There was a bit of WikiDumping today, and that Richard guy was trying to assimilate us into Wikipedia or something.
Cheers. I'll edit it in a while, just to make sure it's alright.
Hint for Diablo, so you don't think it's screwed up when you click "show preview". The changes to the sidebar are only visible after you save the page (kind of like with templates in an article, when editing the template itself).
Done and done, I just used the order Blue put forward.Now that it's actually there, better or worse?
The change actually caught me by surprise, but as the nominator, I'm liking it. It might take a bit getting used to it, though, as with any changes. but at least its neater.
I just wish we could drop "affiliates" below the "toolbox".
Wow I never even noticed that Toolbar before. It will be a lot easier to upload images now for future Pictures of the Week. As for that Walkthrough Markup page, do I have permission to write it? And even if I do, how would I write it?(There is no Markup page for Markup pages).
Go right ahead. And if you have doubts of wether the format and content are right, then just make it in your sandbox and contact me when your done, then I'll take a look at it when I get a chance to and give some feedback. Just as a heads-up, while amusing to a certain extent in walkthroughs, try to avoid using your regular brand of sarcasm in the markup page, however, feel free to make a "tips" section where you can add jokes (and an example or two) as one of the points, just don't go overboard.
EDIT CONFLICT Before I say I support Markup for Walkthrough pages, what the heck is markup?
The Markup page is completed in a boring formal style that I think everyone can agree upon. It wasn't easy, but I avoided the great temptation to sign my name at the top and fill it with stupid jokes and other nonsense. God, I hate my maturity. I try to supress it as much as possible.I took a few liberties with the Page and threw in some minor protacal about editing somebody else's waltkhrough at the bottom. Though I have no power to make such rules, I don't think anyone will object to them. I think they work out best for everybody. If anyone has any problems with it, contact me at my Talk Page. So here it is, all bright, new, and shiny: Final Fantasy Wiki:Markup/Walkthroughs.
The Favicon. Anybody got an image / sprite to contribute? And how does one go about changing the Favicon?
I oppose all because I'm bored and do not have time to read.
Ren's warning has come true; the search bar is too low now. Can we slip it in above "guide"?Also I uploaded a favicon but it's not showing up where it matters; does it need some kind of admin intervention to unlock the feature, or do we actually not have access to it?
It was already too low before the changes were implemented, which is why I, 6-10 posts ago, said that it would be great if affiliates were below the toolbox
So the search box is part of the toolbox? Bummer. The affiliates are eating up space. They should be moved to below the toolbox. But only people with MediaWiki and technical knowhow and access would know.Same goes for the Favicon. Gold wasn't doing it wrong, i think, but it's not working.
You could just get rid of the affliates altogether. Its definitely not the best solution to this problem (in fact its probably the worst) but I'm certain that it would work.
That would invoke the ire of the admins! Surely you have read the *new* Midgar Press to know why the affiliates are listed as they are. Pardon my fail Ivalice tongueedit: Well, whaddaya know? The Favicon's been changed successfully! But I can't figure out what it is. What is that, Gold?
Yeah, what is the Favicon?
Favicons are those small icons that you see in the address bar next to the URL, and in the Favorites menu in IE, and the small icons in the tab when you use Firefox.
I think he was asking what our favicon is. Drake it looks like our how do you say it.....banner picture. The little Chocobo holding the book at the top left of our page
Oh I see. There are suggestions for a chocobo favicon. We should held a favicon contest, like we did for the logo and titlebar.
Oh, so is that Chocobo our favicon? I like a chocobo, but I don't know if my vote matters.
I just wanna ask, why were some people against that the fora would be merged and organized? I mean, we have a total of 6 fora, 2 of them are offline topics (and could be merged together), 2 of them deal with fan-created stuff, like fanfics and fanart (and thus, could be merged together), the last 2 both deal with game help (and could be merged together). Not to mention that a bunch of threads are in the wrong fora and should be sorted out. I noticed this, Blue noticed this (duh, hence his suggestion), hell, even Sansse from the main Wikia's Community Support team, who visits like once a month or so, noticed that our fora are cluttered and hard to figure out (in terms of what the hell should be posted where).
I also noticed, that with the exception of Azul, the remaining forum moderators all voted against it (I'm not saying they're the only ones, I'm just saying that they did). Is this coincidental or is it because people are afraid of losing their titles as moderators? Because if it's the former, then fair enough, you probably have good reasons and I would very much like to hear them, but if it's the latter, I gotta say, it's freakin' pathetic. That may sound harsh, but face it, I have yet to see any of you actually manage your respective fora in any way (I think it was Highwind who noticed this as well), so why be concerned about possibly losing a title that, and let's be realistic here, you've done nothing to earn? And in case you have some whiny story about that you should keep the title because you created the forum, then save it, because that would only make it even more pathetic. But if worst comes to worst, and that people have become way to title-fixated, then have two moderators on the merged forum. Then maybe at least one of you will actually do the job that comes with the title. Unlikely, but hey, always the optimist ^_^So, looking forward to some good arguments from the nay-sayers as to why they didn't want the merge 'n' organize-suggestion to go through. Feel free to post the comments on my talk page instead of here, in case this goes in to a lengthy discussion.
Well, first, forum is spelled forum, not fora. Second, I was against it before I was a forum moderator, and I will back my forum personally because it is about things that ae non-Final Fantasy related, so that the users can learn other things about each other. Third, The Dollet Hotel is always used for game help, meanwhile The Sandsea Taverns isn't anymore, it's now more of a base for Viera talk and Picture Mystery, perhaps that can be changed. Rin's is about talking about Final Fantasy, that's good, it's done there. Goldberry's forum (can't remember the name for some reason) is for Fan Fiction related material, which doesn't fit in any other forum. Anything else?
Less is more when it comes to Forums. There should be only four Forums:
Six against it, three for it, and the idea has been abanoned. Just live with it, guys. It's not like it's taking so much room that the entire wiki is slowing down because of two more forums.
Now that Hecko addressed it, I;m revoking that abandoned status. And DMD, fora is one plural form of forum. I'm not going for votes, I'm going for consensus; the votes are formality. And I haven't removed the suggestions from the board, because there wasn't a consensus on it.
(EDIT CONFLICT) First, if you wanna pick on someone's spelling and/or grammar, always, and I really mean always, make sure you're right. That being said, fora is the plural form of forum, so as far as I can see, I made no mistake.
Second, so is "Rin's Travel Agency" (*aka* the original offline topic), hence why Rin's Travel Agency should be organized and why the two fora should be merged.Third, Gold's forum is called "Returners' Hideout" and is for anything fan-base. The forum "Sanctuary of Zi'tah" is about, and I qoute, "a place where you may display your non-literary projects related to Final Fantasy". In other words, it's for fan-art. I would say they fit quite well. As for "The Sandseas Tavern" and "The Dollet Hotel", both were created as game help fora, both are now filled with random stuff (due to lack of managing and people constantly posting in the wrong place), both should be organized and then merged together.
I'm already liking BH's suggestion, though items 3 and 4 seems similar.
I thought that by "merge" they meant all into one, rather than into three. If it's for three, then i support it (and for the record, I don't care about losing "moderator" rights on the forums because they don't count for shit, anyway :P). I'm changing my vote to note this.
(EDIT CONFLICT)' I think 4 is Highwind'ish for "offline topic", though my Highwind dialect is somewhat rusty. But yeah, if you just change Fanfiction to Fan creations, then you have all the fora you really need. I'm a little so-so on the "general wiki stuff" forum, because it seems like a combination of the help-guides and the Community Portal (Returners' Conclave).
@Gold, no no, it is into three, Blue said: "Like topic Forums be merged", meaning those fora who deal with the same topic would be merged together.P.S. For the record, if people voted "no" solely because they thought "Oh shit, then I might have to do something", then please remove your vote. Chances are that Blue and I will be the ones cleaning up (*cough cough*as usual*cough*)
I figure I might weigh in with some thoughts:
I just listed Walkthrough because it was there when I propose the re-categorization. If it should be removed I have no issue on it (but that's because I'm biased - never done any.)The Search baR has gone further down, now that some wikiastaffer place the wikia links in it. Boo!
Remove the Walkthroughs? Oh no, I have a huge issue with that. I hate to see all the work I've done in the last three months be marginalized into almost nothing.
TA,What you said about the walkthroughs makes you sound like a....Wikipedian. We're not professionals, we're fans. Light-hearted fans who like to write about some of the best games ever made. Not serious professionals.
@Tactics: IIIIIIII don't really get what you mean. Who asked me questions? If you were refering to the issues Drake^2 raised... then I still don't get what you mean. I asked for good arguments, Drake^2 raised some issues, I then addressed them in as much detail as possible. Is that not how it works..? If, on the other hand, you are refering to the constant swarm of questions from people who have not read the guides, then it's too late, I got bent so much on that issue that I eventually snapped.
Hecko, I am Drake1, not Drake2.
Sometimes I wonder if people intentionally don't read what I write, just to annoy me... ^2 is a math term that means "squared", or in layman's terms something times the same thing, e.g. 8^2 is 8 times 8, 4^2 is 4 times 4, etc. I didn't call you Drake2, I called you Drake^2, and in case you wondering why, look at your name (hint: DrakemasterDrake). And now you may be wondering, "but why the hell would he do that?". Quite simple actually, I rarely, if ever, use a nickname for anyone on this wiki that people, other than myself, have thought up (CSM being the sole exception that I can recall). Why is this? Because I'm weird. Totally and utterly weird. And yet so cute and scrumptious ^_^
Drake [45(66^5)^345 + 47(46/58)] x 0 + 1, you really need to study your math more.
I think only semi-math geeks (and above) would getter the irony in that statement.
I am not suggesting not including Walkthroughs. I do not think they should be under navigation because they have nothing to do with navigation. I think they are guides. Also, guide gives them the appropriate weight.
CSM, I would expect that you would take issue with my comments since you specifically have been rather disappointingly territorial when it comes to this subject. I also should note that I do not, nor have I ever, made any substantive changes to the Wikipedia; however, I acknowledge the fundimental intellectual ideals that are embodied in the idea of a wiki. I take issue with many of the Wikipedia's policies, most notably notability purges, but I take issue with us being for any policy based on the notion that because Wikipedia does it it must be wrong. We would just be a people blinded by our own bias.
Hecko, you made some comments about being tired of people asking you how to write a walkthrough. This is to what I was referring....and for the record, fora may be a word, but lets not fool ourselves. We speak English, not Latin.
If you re-read my comments, you'd notice that I at no point said such a thing. The only time I make any mention of anything of similar context in this thread was when I was quoting Highwind. (*WOOOOOSH* Swing 'n' a miss)... and for the record, "forum" is latin too, and I for one won't go about writing "discussion board" instead of "forum" every time I want to make mention of one.
@ Hecko's comment wayyy up there:I think that my forum is well organized and contains nothing but gaming help whereas the Sandsea Tavern is filled with some game help but mostly randomness
Here is my master plan for the reorganization of the Forums. I'll explain it as well as possible, because some people seem to still have a problem with it for no good reason. Perhaps if they understood what I'm proposing they will no longer have complaints:
I agree with BH on this one :)
(DOUBLE EDIT CONFLICT) With the exception on the thread about the forum-headers and the one about hardware compatability (which I can sorta understand why it was put there), you are correct, your forum only contains game help. I still think it should be merged with the other game-help forum and that the content that has nothing to do with game help should be moved to more appropriate fora.P.S. What happened to all the other nay-sayers? Aren't they gonna explain themselves?
(EDIT CONFLICT): Yeah, I completely agree
I fail to see how two additional forums take up so much room that we'll have to merge them, it's fine the way they are. What's CSM's view of things, he gets the last word after all.
It is not a space-issue. Can you give me a good reason for having not one, but two game-help fora? Because if two are better than one, then why not make four of them? Or more?
I can see merging those, but not all condense like the way BH wants it.
Official Wiki discussion forum? Why not use the Returner's Conclave instead? It is the Community Portal for the FFWiki.
(EDIT CONFLICT) There's really nothing condense about it.
Excellent. I think we can all agree on Hecko's version of the plan.
Let me resate my first question:"Will the names change?"
I say we keep three of the names and dump the other three. I vote for Dollet Hotel, Rin's Travel Agency, and Sanctuary of Zi'tah.
Are there other names that could represent the topic of the forum? Some sort of a FF name that relates.
I suggest "Game-help" for the game-help forum, "Fan creations" for the fan creations forum, and finally "Off-topic" for the off-topic forum. In case you're wondering where I got the fitting names from, then I can tell you that they are all FFVII Spin-offs.
Well they all are FF related
Sanctuary of Zi'tah is from FFXI, yes, and despite its name, it is actually a forest... Among players, it is particularly dear not because of any in-game real reason other than the beautiful pools of water with glowing crystal formations, the glowing spires growing from the ground, and probably more than any other reason, because it has real nice music.I understand that people may have an attachment to the names being given as FF related. I suggest we at least mention somewhere (perhaps in a description below or to the side) what each forum is for.
Seeing that we've reached a consensus (and those who objected have their comments addressed),the forums should be restructured. As it stands, moving forums can be done by anyone, but I think an admin would be more deserving for the task, unless we humble editors are given this right.And as it stands, we'll use the three names proposed for above.
Which three - the discriptive names or the FF names?