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Forums: Index > Rin's Travel Agency > Revamping acknowledgement and the moderator position



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Some Color Mage / Talk Contribs / / 05:13, October 26, 2014 (UTC)
Small correction Cat, we can upload 20 at a time. If the thing has been properly modified for Wikia's use, 40 would be for Wikia staff.

EDIT 06:41, October 26, 2014 (UTC): For the record, these are things I'd think a mod could have if we're treating them as a junior admin:

  • a very limited version of block - See comment above. Only problem is that I doubt Wikia staff would be OK with it, but it's worth asking. Same goes with protect, that's got a 1 hour option.
  • editprotected - Not 100% sure on this, but if mods are to be more trusted than they currently are, then we can probably trust them with the ability to edit protected pages.
  • autopatrol - I'm pretty sure we already trust mods to create pages without the Recent Changes asking us to look it over. Maybe give them patrol too but I don't really see the point of the power in the first place.
  • move-subpages, move-rootuserpages - More move functionality.

There may be some other things but I'm just trying to think of some obvious ones. Also we probably can't give them too many extra powers, either we or Wikia will have to draw a line somewhere. I was originally thinking to give mods ipblock-exempt but that may be considered too much.

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Maybe I shouldn't be saying this, but JavaScript is client-side so no JS-scripted block is full-proof. I can block specific people or those in specific groups from doing a number of things. Removing a specific piece of text from the page, adding a specific piece of text to the page, preventing a user from saving the page, and yes, even limiting the options they can choose on forms.

I'm not sure I would agree with JS-tricks to limit mods. On the other hand, I don't mind using them to limit the masses. JBed (talk) 23:29, October 26, 2014 (UTC)

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When this was discussed on IRC I said mod rights should be given to those we trust and can make use of the tools. Though Yuan said that's exactly what she means, my problem is the perception of "junior admin". I feel like mod should be more like "manual confirmed". Where autoconfirmed is the automatic verification that the user isn't just a bot so they can't do certain things, "manual confirmed" would make sense because we manually verify that the user is a good contributor and therefore give them some more tools that aren't so destructive (can't remove pages, moving files isn't much less problematic than moving pages, rollback is not that special).

I'm saying we shouldn't treat it much like staff at all really, and give it out more often.

If we did this, acknowledgement would be more significant. Mod = being an editor, Ack = doing something notable. JBed (talk) 12:48, October 29, 2014 (UTC)

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Yeah, I think Xion should would be mod under what I propose. Though it wouldn't be staff so it wouldn't have as much weight. It would just be "have some more editing tools", like what happens when you get autoconfirmed.

A whole staff nom thing might not even be necessary. Unless they've done malicious or disruptive things recently, I don't think their attitude in discussions or similar things really matters.

If we want efficiency, then the more people with tools who we also trust not to abuse them is better. JBed (talk) 13:06, October 29, 2014 (UTC)

Closing the discussion (soon)[]

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Since no one's responded I guess I'll make another post.

What Yuan is suggesting (and feel free to correct me if I'm not quite accurate) is that staff levels of Mod and Admin positions to be more related to wiki positions of authority, rather than just tools. Because whether we want it to or not, that is how they are seen. Basically we assign users to these positions who fit in with a wiki pyramid, and then the tools are just a nice bonus.

Which I find bizarre. I think efficiency is far more important than some pointless staff structure*(which at the end of the day means nothing. staff have the trust to use the tools, not the trust to be superior in any other way). Mod should not be above normal users beside their ability to use the tools, and what better way to show that than to not make them staff. Not in the sense we do now anyway. The current tools of the mod are just a step above regulars, things that we might not want some random user user using. But if we know they are a verifiably useful user then why not?

In the face of a user working on uploads and then realising they need to move an image, why should they have to meet some standard that typically requires them being here for a few years? Similarly, when a user sees a vandal in IRC what's up with them needing to have the same experience to revert their contributions slightly faster? It is hampering efficiency for users to meet certain conditions (being that the idea is to be even more selective than we are now) to get those tools that would be useful and that we would trust them with.

So "manual confirmed"-- a user who has been observed as trusted to use some more tools.

Perhaps if we add more rights this may change? I'd actually prefer a new group be added into the mix so manual confirmed can still be a thing because the efficiency purposes still stand. But what rights are you to grant? Not even the editing of protected pages /like protected pages even exist/. We don't even trust these more-trusted users to not continue a disagreement after someone has stepped in to both warn and protect? And patrolling is pointless, and the other move rights I wouldn't mind rollbackers having anyway.

tl;dr: it is all about tools and we maintain that besides it users are still equal; give more users the ability to edit better. JBed (talk) 11:48, November 3, 2014 (UTC)

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  • The person who creates the thread usually manages it. There aren't many deviations from that unless someone else picks it up because they have a special interest.
  • Xion and Shock turned down the role with the current perception of rollback.
  • Yuan says "more selective than it is now". I'm going the opposite, users like CrappyScrap, HarpieSiren, LeafShinobi*(three users I just plucked from the RC) would be fair "promotions". Not because they would use them, but they might and them and we trust them too. Worst case scenario they don't use them, or they go insane and we have an editor who can vandalise slightly quicker*(but how many editors have ever gone rogue?).
  • More immediately obvious example, mecorx could move images. As the editor she currently is, I don't think she'll get a promotion. Would we trust her with the rights? Of course. But the expectations of what a mod should be clouds judgement of what is most helpful to the wiki. JBed (talk) 21:32, November 3, 2014 (UTC)
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Hi all. Just wanted to say thanks for mentioning me in this discussion. It would certainly be beneficial to have access to image renaming/deletion tools considering my current involvement with the FF Airborne Brigade and Pictlogica projects, which will see the addition of thousands of new images. I will also continue to assist with projects involving translation and Japanese content.  mecorx (talk) - 06:22, Nov 04, 2014 Microchu ATB.png 

I (and some of the other admins) feel that mecorx could be accepted as a mod under the new system; I also think HarpieSiren would make sense as a mod if she came around more often. No opinion on CrappyScrap and LeafShinobi either way; I haven't seen them around for long enough. There is another user or two I'd like to nominate once the RfP page goes up though. :p C A T U S E 06:36, November 4, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not an admin but also think that mecorx should be modded (the others not so much, no offense) and it would be nice to get this discussion completed, since I think we're generally on agreement here besides one or two dissenting parties. And that it would be nice to also get the RfS or RfP page up shortly after that. --BlueHighwind 21:54, November 4, 2014 (UTC)
This is the only thing stopping RfS at this point, so unless there are some last minute objections I think we can launch it (along with a mod application for mecorx, which I support as well) as soon as Yuan's decided this is over. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 22:07, November 4, 2014 (UTC)
All I have to say on maybe modding Mecorx is that isn't this the very reason we wanted a more definitive reason for modding? Giving someone mod powers just because they've started moving images is, to me, exactly what Yuan was saying about people just becoming mods for no massive reason, and it's a little lazy imo. Also, Mecorx can have a bit of an attitude on the IRC and has received a complaint before, so I think if she were to be modded, she needs to be actively editing a little longer, and try to drop the attitude on the IRC. Thankfully I've never seen this on the actual wiki. Tia-LewiseRydia - Young battle.png 14:13, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
I agree with what Tia said (while totally disagreeing at the same time).
I think I'm confused again, because Mod may have been given as a reward in the past but it was given as a reward to people who had been here editing consistently for years (and who would still use them). If we do this properly we shouldn't be more selective. Mecorx has only been editing again for a little over two weeks (after prompts to help in a project, before that not consistently since the opening of the year). What metrics are we using here?
I see mecorx fulfilling two criteria, will certainly use the tools and has trust. Is this not the over-simplification that staff==tools?
I think Tia's comments are good points, which is why I don't think the rollback group should have these staff expectations. I think the group should be seen strictly as tools granted to users we trust to to use them. JBed (talk) 14:43, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
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