Forum:Remember when people used to edit the mainspace?

Forums: Index > The Labyrinth of Time > Remember when people used to edit the mainspace?

		Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks TALK - 16:40, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
		Hey, remember when people used to edit the mainspace a lot? Well, I do, and so do a few of the other older users. Well, I did a little fact finding mission in the edit counter, comparing several users, and here are my startling results. First lets start with a few users who appear to not realise this is a Wikia: Leon5550 Total: 575 Main: 6 Talk: 26 User: 233 User Talk: 102 Forum: 84 Wow, just wow. 6 out of 575 edits. Meanwhile, he seems to busy editing his own user page constantly. What the hell? TheSwordofDoubt Total: 1,159 Main: 30 Talk: 5 User: 133 User Talk: 163 Forum: 581 Sure we all love TSD, but she seems too busy hanging around in the forums instead of activly contributing. Only 2.59% of her edits are in the mainspace. Cloudofdarkness Total: 1,203 Main: 54 Talk: 11 User: 338 User Talk: 237 Forum: 371 Like TSD, CoD can be found anywhere other than the mainspace. Griffen78 Total: 968 Main: 15 Talk: 13 User: 224 User Talk: 468 Forum: 157 For the person who created the Pub to increase main-space edits, his number of mainspace edits are laughable. DrakemasterDrake Total: 2772 Main: 118 Talk: 138 User: 296 User Talk: 585 Forum: 1294 Look at all those forum edits. I wouldn't expect anything less from the man who created the Waystone, the thing single handidly responsible for all this crap. Onto a rather odd case now: Drake Clawfang Total: 6416 Main: 1640 Talk: 123 User: 822 User Talk: 979 Forum: 866 A good amount of main space edits, but a look at all those user and forum edits. Now, let's compare to some of our older or more dedicated users: Diablocon Total: 14,966 Main: 9,925 Talk: 1,089 User: 228 User Talk: 897 Forum: 590 I'm surprised how many user talk edits I have, but that's mostly because I'm brought in to settle things. Only 75 mainspace edits before I hit those magical 5 digits. Bluerfn Total: 17,875 Main: 10,611 Talk: 861 User: 342 User Talk: 973 Forum: 757 King of the main space edits. Watch out Bluer, you nearly have 1000 forum edits! 8bit BlackMage Total: 9,196 Main: 4,227 Talk: 188 User: 436 User Talk: 760 Forum: 562 Special case here. 8bit also has 2000 image edits! Lots of catagorizing there! TacticAngel Total: 4,777 Main: 2,375 Talk: 197 User: 358 User Talk: 297 Forum: 440 Since TA is rather sparse of late, this is more of an excellent show of how edit statistics looked before the forums. Yuanchosaan Total: 10,989 Main: 8,999 Talk: 172 User: 277 User Talk: 429 Forum: 238 Yuan goes to show that not all new users are only focusing on the forums. While she isn't writing anything major, mostly focusing on link fixing and the like, she at least has found something to do on the mainspace. ILHI Total: 7,839 Main: 4,365 Talk: 234 User: 710 User Talk: 273 Forum: 236 Echo Yuan's statement here, replacing she with he. The main problem here is that too many users are focusing on the forums and other things, rather than the mainspace! I can hear some people now: "That's not fair, those users with high main space edits are older users!" Well: That's why Yuan and ILHI are in the second half. They're certainly recent users. DrakemasterDrake is a rather old user in comparison. What's annoying is that people come here and only focus on the forums. Now, I like a community. I remember the older community, but instead of uniting over inane topics, we'd unite and talk over how to edit and improve this wiki. If you want to talk about inane topics without even touching the mainspace, why'd you even come here? We are a wikia, our main purpose is to edit the mainspace and make a Final Fantasy database! The forum was just a novelty at first for some chatter from time to time, but now it's just way too dominating, especially a certain Off-Topic forum. Guess what I'm saying is, either start editing the mainspace or just go to an actual forum! This is a Wikia, and while we do want to have a close knit community, we don't want to have a Recent Changes flooded by people discussing the most inane things!

		BlueHighwind Q? TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ:
		I'm a pretty odd case myself. I edit both nonsense and the Main Space! Who else can make that claim: Total: 15,926 (2nd greatest amount of edits, behind Bluerfn) Main: 4,522 (Just 1,000 to go until I beat Crazyswords!) Talk: 662 User: 822 User Talk: 2,308 (not good, I have to be less sociable) Forum: 2,206 (+1 thanks to this edit) Am I a worthy User Diablo?

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff25/bluerfn/occu-27.png

		Ser Blue says at 16:55, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
		It's really time that we start a major overhaul of the wikia's purpose of existence. We have hit a brick wall with most of our users thinking that this is some kind of a fanboy/girl hive, arguing on talk templates and making idyll chatter instead of writing an article or adding mainspace content. I have always emphasized in the past on making mainspace edits - and improving the wiki by adding more content. The forum edits I have are mostly focused onto the Rin's Travel Agency discussions on fixing and improving the Wiki, not ridiculous Waystone banter that could have happened in GameFAQS or whatever forum boards scattered out there in the Internets. I recall the old times when all we do instead is write articles, adding content - which was why the wiki was started in the first place. The forums were non-existent, and rightly so - it should have never been implemented in this wiki at the first place. We should start using the Conclave again. Close the forum threads, starting with least important first would be a good measure. We might then be able to welcome a new year with a stronger and more established Final Fantasy Database instead of a movie review this wiki is turning into! By then, the forums will be shut down and the Wiki community as it is should concentrate solely on Final Fantasy and nothing else. If there are those who cry foul over these, then they are welcome to leave, find a new place or start a new wiki if they must.

		8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}}
		I'm a "special case", hmm? I'll take it as a compliment XD I think the total shut-down of Forums is kind an extreme move. While many superflous discussions go on there, there are some good ones, such as the EoS fanfic and the Dollet Hotel. Maybe the only the Waystone should be closed? It's all "Non-Final Fantasy stuff" anyway. We would need to move the story to a sub-userpage, that shouldn't be difficult. On second thought, we could move it to the Sanctuary of Zitah. Plus, I kind of like browsing the forums for a bit before I go to the mainspace.

		BlueHighwind Q? TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ:
		Is this really such a threat to the wiki? I seriously doubt that if we lose the Forums that the population of real editors is going to increase. Maybe it will, but all the Users I like will most likely be replaced by Wikipedia Robots. Are my Walkthroughs going too? Because I will definitely leave the moment they are Deleted. Anybody else starting to miss Crazyswords at this point?

TacticAngel TALK 00:12, 24 August 2008 (UTC) Actually, my statistics used to look a lot better, and they're somewhat misleading. My sandbox technically falls under user space, but a lot of good stuff has come out of there... but its true. Since my house burnt down, I haven't had the patience for writing new articles. That used to be my thing, mostly because I'm the only one around here who cares about Vana'diel. My contributions have been limited to forum, project wiki pages, occasional somewhat minor edits to the mainspace, and templates. I am glad to see my suggestions for the enemies template is finally making it into the mainspace. I commend those people involved in its implementation for their assistance. I think that the last time I brought this up, BlueHighwind and CrazySwordsman both yelled at me. Needless to say, I agree though. I wouldn't necessarily complain if the forums vanished. They seemed like a good idea at the time, and they have their uses, but. . . at what price? At what price?

		Yuan 翠珊 — 00:41, 24 August 2008 (UTC) "He wants to write a love song / An anthem of forgiving / A manual for living with defeat"
		I'd like to disagree with the deletion of the forums. Perhaps it's true that if we did delete them, then the number of "useless" editors would decrease, but so perhaps would the number of "useful" editors, or at least people we enjoy having around. Slightly ironically, I joined the FF wiki because I liked the look of the forums... I see no particular problem in editing forums, so long as they don't begin to outweigh other edits. Whilst some users don't edit mainspace frequently (okay, not at all), this is a Wikia, and we need all the help we can get. If push comes to shove, I'd say get rid of the Waystone, and leave the others. They do serve some use. I suppose the only other strategy would be to have a quota for forum edits each week/day, which would be implausible... Otherwise, we could merge all forums into one, although that would quickly become cluttered... @BlueHighwind: I doubt your walkthroughs would be deleted, as they are helpful to this site. @TA: No love for me? :(

		DrakeyC - Crossing the distant night...Wandering the desert sea...The gods' voices are mirages... TALK - 01:10, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
		I think the emphasize on the forums rather than the mainspace should be toned down, but I do not believe removing the forums is the best course of action. I think it's the purpose of the forums that should be revamped - currently RTA is both for talk about the Wiki including ideas for improvements, and about FF itself. Shouldn't discussion of the Wiki be itself, seperate from generic FF talk? Perhaps that would be a good first step, a new forum where the important Wiki talk can be set aside from the less-important series talk. As for my edits, I make mainspace edits when I find something to edit, and now and then I'll be feeling ambitious and go out actively looking for stuff to improve. But edit count, while important, isn't everything. My user edits for example - I update my user page almost every day with new crap, that's just how my page works.

		Yuan 翠珊 — 07:12, 25 August 2008 (UTC) "He wants to write a love song / An anthem of forgiving / A manual for living with defeat"
		Bumping this, plus a proposal. Please note: whilst I am against the deletion of forums, as I believe that such a drastic measure is not needed, the majority of the active admins appear to be for the deletion. Hence, a restructuring of organisation on the wiki will be needed. I propose: Rin's Travel Agency Simple, resurrect the Returner's Conclave, and use it only for management issues on this Wiki, and perhaps updates on FF games (Dissidia videos come to mind). I am the most iffy on the deletion of Rin's, as it has proved useful in the past, and the organisation is far cleaner and efficient than that of the Conclave. Also, if we use the Conclave, I suggest reducing use of talk templates there, as it slows the page down greatly. Random FF discussions: You know what I'm talking about. Get rid of them, plain and simple. Dollet Hotel This proves to be helpful as well. However, there is a reason we have walkthroughs, and this wiki has an abundance of useful ones. If you still have quesetions, perhaps contact a walkthrough writer. Sanctuary of Zi'tah Okay, well, fanart (and presumably fanfiction) was encouraged by Tono Crazyswords, so this does serve a purpose. Realistically, I think that Zi'tah hardly has an effect on this debate - how many people use it, anyway? Fanfiction can be moved to user space. For fanart, I have two suggestions: Move it to a user page, and have discussion there. There is a Forum:Fanart page. Perhaps art can be placed on the talk page for discussion. The Waystone By far the most useless forum. I will admit that it is fun and amusing, but it's also rather distracting. Good things have come out of it, like the story (Okay, I'm biased there :P), but the majority of it, not so. Delete, delete, delete. For off-topic discussions, try the FF wiki IRC channel. It's not like we ever discuss FF there... Oh, and for story editors, we can always put it user space. My other proposal would be to delete the Waystone, and merge the other forums into Rin's. It may be a little cluttered, but the purpose of the forum could be shifted. Thoughts on either proposal?

		Leon5550 - Procede. Fac mevm diem, pvnc. TALK - {{{time}}}
		WTF? Why my name's on the top of some list??!!! The least u can do is warn me that I've been nominated for "best badass ever.", I hate surprises U know?

		JARIITX - This is a fight for me and me alone. TALK - 19:47, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
		Well I just checked what little edit count I have and it shows one-third of my edits are mainspace edits....guess I'm a rare rookie-user with mainspace editing to boot. As far as forum deletion goes....I suppose the Waystone has to go since it serves little purpose...But the other three SHOULD stay. I use the Dollet Hotel a lot for help and this HAS TO stay since a lot of users use it. Just my two Gil worth of an opinion....

		Griffen78 - who needs high hp when you got a smexy jacket like this? TALK - {{{time}}}
		i'm only useless,because i play for injoiment not for learning perposes.so i will start editing main space more,just links and stuff though,but fourums are more of my thing so they should stay,the way stone deletion,maybe a problem.and my pub is pritty much dead so it may need deleteing i will leave that to the admins.

		ChiefKakashi Talk - Contribs - Random - {{{time}}} You can feel the waves coming on, let them destroy you or carry you on.
		Surprisingly, I'm not in the first list. Hmmm... (Not that I want to be.) I say we could get rid of the Waystone because we have the IRC. We could probably also get rid of the Sanctuary of Zi'tah since it's rarely used. But keep Rin's and the Dollet Hotel, those are useful. P.S. So what if a lot of us (including myself) don't do much work? What are you going to do? Ban us?

		Pablo618 - I am the Iron man Proto-babil!! TALK - Time for Dark Matter {{{time}}}
		Surprisingly, I wasn't mentioned either

		Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks TALK - 21:29, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
		Why would I ban you, that means you'd do no work. Also, I jsut chose 6 people for each side (well, Drake Clawfang is kind of somewhere in the middle). The problem we're having is that more and more people are treating this as something that isn't a Wiki. Really, if the Waystone goes, everything will be fine, since the forums used to be fine before that. Also, in an ironic twist, since I'm gunning for the forums, I'm annoyed people don't use the Sanctuary enough.

		Yuan 翠珊 — 07:04, 26 August 2008 (UTC) "He wants to write a love song / An anthem of forgiving / A manual for living with defeat"
		Ah, no responses to my proposal... Well, the majority of the responses seem to support the deletion of the Waystone rather than all forums. I doubt anyone would be banned, as that would simply prevent more edits, and lack of mainspace edits is not a reason to ban people. As for Zi'tah... I don't know, we seem to have a fair few fanfiction writers, and a few people who can draw... The majority of them keep it in userspace (perhaps scared of being burnt by other users :P?). We could always move EoS there, and encourage people to post their works. (I will do more FF art! I will!)

		DrakeyC - Crossing the distant night...Wandering the desert sea...The gods' voices are mirages... TALK - 07:10, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
		No response to my idea either.

Some Color Mage / Talk Contribs / / No time. I don't really care. ... Move any liked Waystone threads (Such as EoS) to Zi'tah, then delete Waystone. Are we in agreement?

Briefly scanned thread. Well did not.

Firstly, I love how you used my as an example Diablo. Though you also forgot to say that over 7000 of them are all either mainspace, or good-will edits. So to say, my linking sprees went across all namespaces. I am not a community man. For example, I edited loads of people's user pages when changing "Job system" to "Job System", minor, I know. This included almost every page, because the making a userpage guide was wrong. People copy + paste wrong gives Wrong x Inf. My image edits are all categorizing, a few re-uploads under different file formats, and a few linking. Walkthrough - 558. I have no walkthrough. Part of the FFIV, SNES to GBA name project; mainly. My category edits consist of the moving to "List of Final Fantasy * Enemies", and before linking. Forum should be mostly mine, as with Talk. But not all. All template work is fixing, and template work.

Not having read most people's posts in this thread. I'm guessing we're talking about axing forum sections. If so, then have a section for proposals that include vast amounts of work (eg. Moving many pages, editing a template resulting in edits of every page containing it). Another section where threads can only be made by Admins; this section would be for FF help. So each thread will be called "Final Fantasy * Help". It will leave less reason. It would also stop repeats of the same question, maybe. Another section for Final Fantasy, which could also be admin creation only. We do not need non-Final Fantasy threads. Fan-art does not have to be posted not on the forum, "Final Fantasy Wiki:Fanart" may work, which could kinda be like the thing Yuan has now. Image talk for discussion of image fanart. Fanfics go in userspace, and linked to on said FFWiki space article, if Fanfics are included. Most of them I would not consider art.  ILHI ^{14:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC)}

		Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks TALK - 14:58, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
		Little late there ILHI, I've already obliterated the Waystone. I made a topic about that actually. The forum is now fine the way it is.

That is one's opinion.  ILHI ^{15:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)}

		Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks TALK - 15:12, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
		I do wonder if it's possible to make "stickys", so to speak, a place to post all the rules.

		Leon5550 - Procede. Fac mevm diem, pvnc. TALK - {{{time}}}
		we're gonna have 2 problems: Who in their right sane mind would write something that long? Can a page handle 50gb of text?

The only problem here is people with short attention spans. Read a book.  ILHI ^{15:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)}