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Other content that should be viewed as in the same class as Quests: FFXIV Duty pages, such as [[Eden's Verse: Fulmination]], and FFT(A,2,S) battle content. Both are extremely bare-bones at the moment; I have been working on the former. Actually, in the case of FFT, War of the Lions gives battles names; for example the first fight at Lionel Castle is called "The Chill of Defeat". I don't think we mention this anywhere on the wiki other than maybe in the FFT journal pages. So those battles could be potentially moved off of the location page and into the page with their name, but then the location page would have basically nothing on it, so this may or may not be prudent. [[User:Catuse167|Cat]] ([[User talk:Catuse167|meow]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Catuse167|hunt]]) 07:25, March 8, 2020 (UTC)
 
Other content that should be viewed as in the same class as Quests: FFXIV Duty pages, such as [[Eden's Verse: Fulmination]], and FFT(A,2,S) battle content. Both are extremely bare-bones at the moment; I have been working on the former. Actually, in the case of FFT, War of the Lions gives battles names; for example the first fight at Lionel Castle is called "The Chill of Defeat". I don't think we mention this anywhere on the wiki other than maybe in the FFT journal pages. So those battles could be potentially moved off of the location page and into the page with their name, but then the location page would have basically nothing on it, so this may or may not be prudent. [[User:Catuse167|Cat]] ([[User talk:Catuse167|meow]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Catuse167|hunt]]) 07:25, March 8, 2020 (UTC)
 
 
 
:FFXIV is a great candidate for quest pages, but the only problem is that there's a huge amount of content to cover. Same goes for XI.
 
:FFXIV is a great candidate for quest pages, but the only problem is that there's a huge amount of content to cover. Same goes for XI.
 
:The location pages for FFT can still have a Geography section, with the goal being to describe said locations as lived-in places in lore, and could still have Story content if the goal is that the battle pages are gameplay-focused while the location pages are lore-focused. In this case, I would say including guide content on the FFT battle names makes more sense than on the location pages, because they can be listed sequentially.--{{User:Technobliterator/Talk}} 07:40, March 8, 2020 (UTC)
 
:The location pages for FFT can still have a Geography section, with the goal being to describe said locations as lived-in places in lore, and could still have Story content if the goal is that the battle pages are gameplay-focused while the location pages are lore-focused. In this case, I would say including guide content on the FFT battle names makes more sense than on the location pages, because they can be listed sequentially.--{{User:Technobliterator/Talk}} 07:40, March 8, 2020 (UTC)
  +
::Good ideas for FFT. Unfortunately that game is in a weird place where the coverage could be a lot better but nobody really actively edits those pages anymore.
  +
::As for XIV, I was referring to Duty pages rather than Quest pages. That said, Quest pages for XIV could be written automatically. This is something I've tried to set up in the past and failed because loltencent and because I don't really have the time to write such a big bot. However, if a group of editors worked on it, we could definitely do it (say after all the current hubbub died down). Or we could try to get a Fandom contractor to do it. [[User:Catuse167|Cat]] ([[User talk:Catuse167|meow]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Catuse167|hunt]]) 19:19, March 8, 2020 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:19, March 8, 2020

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Forums: Index > Rin's Travel Agency > Quest and chapter pages

Technobliterator
BS Magnolia Emperor

The character names in the infobox don't need the surnames. Also the use of "Assigned by" kinda irks me when the quest is literally given from advancing the story. "Escape from the Reactor" is assigned by completing "Set the Charge". Writing "Cloud" seems like trying to fit a story-shaped peg into a gameplay-shaped hole.

For games that don't have main quests and/or chapters, I suggest we make them up. Sometimes we don't even have to do that: The FFVII Ultimania Omega divides the game into Acts/Chapters. Act 1 is Midgar and had nine chapters. Act 2 has 17 and goes up to summoning Meteor (although one is Gongaga, one is Wutai). Act 3 has four and goes up to saving Cloud. Act 4 has six and is the remainder of the story. For reference, Act. 1-1 is 壱番魔晄炉爆破 and goes all the way up to getting offa that train at Sector 7.

Most games don't seem to have a perfect analogue to quests, at least as they are in FFVIIR. Each main quest in FFVIIR is an in-game instruction. The FFVIII Ultimania has "'Tutorial' in the Study Panel" followed by "Bump into transfer student on 2F corridor" followed by "Join Quistis at the main gate". After doing the first, your instruction is the third, but it's interjected by the second event. It'll probably be easier to just use our own based on dialogue instruction, but the Ultimanias are probably worth referencing.

FFXII is simple and has 10(+1) chapters that are named as seen on the sidebar here. (The BradyGames guide is also convenient for sidequests. Example: Chapter 10 has the single Objective "Stop Vayne!", and the Actions "Get to the lift platform in the central hub.", "Defeat Judge Gabranth." and "Defeat Vayne Solidor three times!". Chapter 9 has three objectives (Seek Reddas in Balfonheim Port [3 actions], Enter the Pharos lighthouse [1 action], and Seek the Sun-Cryst Atop the Pharos at Ridorana (6+3+4+1 actions). (technically between these chapters they have the "Prepare for the Final Confrontation" objective, but we can ignore that))

Anyway, yeah. I like the idea of quests pages. And I guess Chapter pages make sense too, although sometimes it seems arbitrary because each game probably handles Chapter length differently. Question: If a Chapter is short enough where it seems most logical to merge its main quests into a single a page (think the chapter that's going to cover Cloud's Subconscious), would we just not make a quests page and fuse it into the Chapter page? JBed (talk) 11:49, March 7, 2020 (UTC)

Surnames were included in the infobox because of how VIIR always lists full names in gameplay text. i.e. listing the full names in the menu, in the HUD, and the full name is listed when joining the party. I wouldn't do full names for the other games though.
When the quest is circumstantial, the idea is to use the party leader as the one who assigned it (in future parts, that may be Aerith of Cid). "Assigned by" may not be necessary for these, but is crucial for a lot of later quests, particularly sidequests, where the player has to talk to a certain character to get the quests.
The only problem I have with using made-up names for quests is just that readers wouldn't know to search for it. This may not be a problem if we just list the quests on the location pages though. And I absolutely agree with using Ultimania names for chapters (any chance you could transcribe what those act/chapter names are? They'd be really helpful for the script page too). FFXII and FFVIII could definitely make use of the chapter and quest names listed there.
I thought about what to do with chapters that are really short. I currently lean towards just keeping the chapter page barebones and linking to the few quests there are. This is mainly because I prefer to avoid having redirects in one category lead to another entirely, but also because chapter pages have full story sections that quest pages don't. I'm open to just using the chapter page in cases like that, though.--Magicite-ffvi-ios Technobliterator TC 14:02, March 7, 2020 (UTC)
I checked a video before I made the comment: The on-screen party list just had "Cloud", but more importantly the speaker line just said "Cloud". If it uses the surname prominently in gameplay contexts then I guess it's not as significant as I thought, but I would still side with speaker name (since that's what NPC-given quests are going to use). Assigned by is definitely a good parameter in general though, yeah -- but when it's not an NPC quest it just looks like the result of having to put something in a required field.
I agree that readers wouldn't know to search for made-up names (and also because they wouldn't even know to search for them). But you've made clear the utility of having a series of story articles. And instead of saying "after obtaining the Highwind", "during Meteorfall", or "after the events at the Nothern Cave in Part 2", we can finally have "after [EVENT PAGE LINK]" consistently on all pages. Also if we're making up the names, we're more likely to use a self-evident name, and less likely to name something like "Out of the Frying Pan".
FFVIII and FFIX don't have chapter names as such. So FFIX divides its story into sections but names them after the location (e.g. "Ice Cavern"), or like "M.S. Prima Vista (after crash) ~ Evil Forest". FFVIII Ultimania is actually the same, although it basically has a new chapter every turn of the page, so you can't tell how much the "chapters" are informed by space limitations. The cuts aren't totally arbitrary though. The 20th Anniversary Ultimania has the same kind of thing all of the games up to XII, favouring frequent divisions.
I'll look through what I have and transcribe everything I think might be relevant. JBed (talk) 14:52, March 7, 2020 (UTC)
When someone joins the party, on-screen it says "Barret Wallace joins the party", using the full name. I basically used the surname here to reflect this.
I'm ok with removing "assigned by" when it's circumstantial or unclear.
You made a really good point on the "after [event link]" here, actually. Being able to say "during Raid on Midgar" was a godsend when writing Sector 8. Being able to do that elsewhere would be really convenient, so I'm good with us just making up names of events if the Ultimania does not provide it.--Magicite-ffvi-ios Technobliterator TC 16:55, March 7, 2020 (UTC)
Can we make a "List of Final Fantasy Z quests" that just has all the quests in chronological order? Would make searching easier for sure. Cat (meowhunt) 07:36, March 8, 2020 (UTC)
I made Template:Navbox quests FFVIIR, but I'm not against also making a list page.--Magicite-ffvi-ios Technobliterator TC 07:41, March 8, 2020 (UTC)
Technobliterator

Other content that should be viewed as in the same class as Quests: FFXIV Duty pages, such as Eden's Verse: Fulmination, and FFT(A,2,S) battle content. Both are extremely bare-bones at the moment; I have been working on the former. Actually, in the case of FFT, War of the Lions gives battles names; for example the first fight at Lionel Castle is called "The Chill of Defeat". I don't think we mention this anywhere on the wiki other than maybe in the FFT journal pages. So those battles could be potentially moved off of the location page and into the page with their name, but then the location page would have basically nothing on it, so this may or may not be prudent. Cat (meowhunt) 07:25, March 8, 2020 (UTC)

FFXIV is a great candidate for quest pages, but the only problem is that there's a huge amount of content to cover. Same goes for XI.
The location pages for FFT can still have a Geography section, with the goal being to describe said locations as lived-in places in lore, and could still have Story content if the goal is that the battle pages are gameplay-focused while the location pages are lore-focused. In this case, I would say including guide content on the FFT battle names makes more sense than on the location pages, because they can be listed sequentially.--Magicite-ffvi-ios Technobliterator TC 07:40, March 8, 2020 (UTC)
Good ideas for FFT. Unfortunately that game is in a weird place where the coverage could be a lot better but nobody really actively edits those pages anymore.
As for XIV, I was referring to Duty pages rather than Quest pages. That said, Quest pages for XIV could be written automatically. This is something I've tried to set up in the past and failed because loltencent and because I don't really have the time to write such a big bot. However, if a group of editors worked on it, we could definitely do it (say after all the current hubbub died down). Or we could try to get a Fandom contractor to do it. Cat (meowhunt) 19:19, March 8, 2020 (UTC)
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