So this is something that's been bugging me for a while, and I've been getting the impression I'm not the only one: we, the FFWiki, are great at starting discussions about improving things, but absolutely terrible at actually finishing them. Just look around the forum if you don't believe me: the poll that TA set up at Wikia's request fell off after one night, the Game Manuals discussion is also dead, the Fandom Notability discussion made a lot of progress but never actually went anywhere because people lost interest, and unless it's being discussed privately, we have no idea if MMIII is going to be a thing, might be a thing but might not be, or has lost all traces of thingishness altogether. And that's not even getting started on discussions that happen in talk pages. I'm a hypocrite for not helping to see those discussions to completion, but complaining anyways. But anyways.Anyways, what I'm suggesting is monthly IRC meetings, similar to what they have at the KHWiki. I know, KHWiki can be a bit more ... chaotic than us, and I know their meetings, Roundtables as they call them, often end in failure because nobody shows up. But (a) being Lawful Good will only keep things smoother than KHWiki's meetings go (and they go smooth enough when people do show up), and (b) our IRC channel is a good four times bigger than KHWiki's, so if we agree on a time (I'm leaning on some time late evening Saturday UTC, when we seem to get the most activity) that should be a complete non-issue.
Agenda (28 June 22:00 UTC)
- Any user can add to the agenda to be covered at the next meeting.
That's a good suggestion, Mittens. Yes, Saturday evening seems the best choice. If we would agree to that, I think we could use a timer we have built into our CSS or JS (I don't remember) and have that timer put somewhere on the main page, so people would know how long they should wait before that IRC meeting, also the timer would be put just few days before so it's not there all the time, but yeah: it's easier to get some help with the Wiki through the IRC channel. I hope you don't mind me calling you that. ;P
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- Have it's own separate channel.
- Be logged and pasted on the wiki.
But I don't this solves the problem. People should pay attention to discussions on-wiki. I'd prefer highlighting over people needing to be forced to comment on things in an IRC chat. 184.108.40.206 12:02, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
I know it doesn't solve the problem, but it does bandage it, and since I have no idea to fix it ... I guess this is the next best thing?I don't really get why it would need a separate channel (though, if the side conversations cause too much of a distraction...) but as for being logged, seeing as everything on FFWiki is logged several times over and pasted somewhere, that's kind of a given.
Some people don't care. And if they don't want to care then they shouldn't be forced to. The IRC channel is used mostly for general social stuff. I.e. it should be opt-in and shouldn't take things away from people who don't want to pay attention (other than taking away users who would paying attention in one chat but not the main).
- One can also sometimes dump a link to a discussion he needs to be resolved on the IRC and interested people will popup in the thread and throw their two cents.—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) 17:13, June 5, 2013 (UTC)
@Kaimi, I don't think deciding a weekday is a good idea yet. The whole problem with nobody showing up in KHWiki's ones was that it was Saturday. When we moved them to Friday, people actually did show up, even ones who never had before. --Sove 06:40, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
I suggest multiple meetings, to cover the time zones. At the moment (like, right now, as I'm on IRC) we have a rare occurence where we have several American/Canadian users on the IRC as well as the Australian users, but until around 11UTC, maybe later, is generally the latest the Aussies are around, and the Americans/Canadians filter through anytime after midday, with the Brits being around generally anytime. This is all just a guess from user's online habits, but you get the picture, not everyone is around all the time and it'd be impractical to ask everyone to all come together. So maximum of three or four meetings(?), all on the same day or maybe across two in the month, to cover everyone who needs to discuss stuff at different times, and keep the really important links to the forums in the topic, as is obvious. Then those in the various time zones can report back to each other, through the forums, Talk Pages, or Facebook for those who use it and aren't really that active in the mainspace anymore.
- I don't think multiple meetings is a good idea. It adds further layers of complexity that just wouldn't be there if people used the damn talk pages. Discussions work by others having opinions. If in one of these discussions one person has a minblowing outlook that changes everyone else's mind, the other two meetings without that person might not get that, take the opposite idea, and then what do we have? Unenlightened people who weren't involved in the entire discussion making a consensus on something because they were less informed. 220.127.116.11 13:50, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
- It would probably be easier to have a forum thread or something where people could weigh in if they couldn't make it and didn't give their opinions on the talk page/forum before the discussion. Having multiple meetings means coming to multiple agreements, which might not be the same, and then we have to agree on an agreement. Metaagreement sounds no fun. :/ C A T U S E 18:33, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
I like the general idea of meeting on the IRC to discuss wiki issues in real-time so those issues don't die, but I have some thoughts.
Well, this discussion seems to have died down and everyone seems to be in agreement so I guess all that remains is to decide on a time and have a trial meeting?
We'd likely be looking for 21:00 or 22:00 UTC. Our core three groups are UK, NA, and Australia. And for UK that's late night, for NA that's evening, and for Australia that's late morning, and a reasonable time for Australians to be on the internet and IRC according to what I've seen. 18.104.22.168 15:59, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
Despite my relative activity on the Wiki and on IRC, I do favour keeping discussions on-Wiki where possible, as it keeps everything neatly recorded and users tend to think out their points more than they necessarily would in real-time. As such, I agree with TA that forums are better in every way for large and important topics, but, of course, it is often a challenge to keep small and medium topics running until they reach a conclusion (as proven by this one; Cat may or may not have had to poke me to post in it <_<), so an IRC meeting does make sense.
Setting up a side channel is best, as some users do avoid the main channel due to its effectiveness as a tool of distraction (and/or the insanity/inanity); doing so would not be difficult (well, aside from choosing a name), and I would give the logging aspect triple redundancy before any other users even joined, so that's not an issue either (and I suspect that Cat can also manage logging and posting duties).
It would probably be best to experiment with timing to find out what ends up working best, but ~22:00 UTC sounds reasonable in theory. I would suggest that it would be best to have a sticky forum thread in which topics to be discussed in the next IRC meeting can be added by anyone, although obviously topics should be able to be brought up during the meeting without prior notice.
In terms of name for a channel, we could add something under our main namespace, such as #Wikia-FF-Discuss, but that is a rather cumbersome. Alternatives would include ##FFWiki (available), #wikia-finalfantasy (registered and currently directing users to #Wikia-FF), or something else. (Our old channel, #FFWiki, is also still registered by us and is currently forwarding users to our new channel, but I would strongly discourage using that channel for this - we moved due to namespace issues in the first place, and those haven't gone away; it would also simply be confusing).Let me know your views.
I like the idea of starting at 22:00 UTC or so (should probably "officially" start at 21:45 or so, since people always show up late to these sorts of things), probably on Saturday (which would be Sunday for Aussies) since having it on Sunday would put it on a weekday for Australians, while having it on Friday would be a weekday for Americans.As for a channel name, we should probably keep it short and descriptive. #Wikia-FF-Discuss and #wikia-finalfantasy are needlessly long for no real reason. #wikia-FFmeeting maybe, or just good old ##FFWiki.
Per Yuan's suggestion in IRC, going to have a trial meeting some time next week (probably Saturday, 29 June, 22:00 UTC, unless there's an objection) If it goes well, we can make these meetings more permanent; otherwise, it's probably a sign that this isn't going to go anywhere and should be scrapped.
There will be a trial meeting at 22:00UTC, Saturday the 17th, August, in #wikia-finalfantasy. EDIT: Sorry, guys. It appears there's an LP episode on at that time. The meeting will now be at 22:00UTC, Saturday the 24th, August, at the same place
I trust we're all a welcome addition to this? I will try my hardest to be there. Also, if the conversation could be logged by at least one user that'd be great.
All are welcome, yes. Cyclone is in the channel, so we will have at least one reliable logger.
I would imagine taking minutes would be quite easy in a meeting such as this. I'll put my name down, if I can remember!
Would it be a useful policy to perhaps do a quick runthrough of the Clan Primer at the start of each meeting (which obviously therefore includes this one)? Not necessarily so that all of the active topics on the Primer do get discussed in that meeting, but so that any of them can be picked up if it's deemed worth doing so. If nothing else, it will (a) give us material to discuss if the agenda is otherwise not very full and (b) ensure that topics in the Primer get at least regular, if not frequent, review.
Also, I trust there will be no objection to me being present using RN rather than "myself", given the time the meeting starts?
Well, the trial meeting went well. Thanks to everyone that participated! [Here's a log], for those curious.
It's been decided that we'll schedule the meetings once a month, with a rough timeframe of an hour (though we can go over or under). The logs and minutes will be kept in a subpage of the Clan Primer.Edit: SCM suggests that we stick with the last Saturday of each month, which sounds good to me.
Does the last Saturday of this month count or are we going again from September 28th? And will the time be consistent? Sorry I couldn't be there last time, it was my dad's leaving party before he moves to Cyprus and I hadn't seen him in nearly three years, but I've studied the log and am pleased with what was discussed and the manner it was discussed in ^_^ I will put notes in my phone calendar to alert me when we're going to access the channel.