This was a debate a few years ago that went nowhere due to, looking at the old discussion on the talk pages, a rather even split of support and oppose. But bringing it back up again - I propose we merge Chocolina and Chocobo chick under the former name, and Barthandelus and Galenth Dysley under the former name.
The main reason people opposed the merge was because of spoilers. It was a dumb reason then and it's a dumb reason now. We don't hide the true name of Ashe when the player first meets her as "Amalia," we don't hide Edea's last name is Kramer. Why should we hide the fact that these two characters are the same person?
With Chocolina, Lightning Returns makes it explicit that the Chocobo Chick is named Chocolina by Dajh, and it's explicit in that game and XIII-2 that the woman and the Chocobo chick are the same entity.
With Dysley/Barthandelus, duh. The only issue is which name to use. I prefer Barthandelus since that's his true form, but I'm open to discussion on it.
EDIT - I also ask that people keep in mind that things like Kain Highwind/The Hooded Man would need to be split going by this precedent.
We merged Mydia and Judge of Wings, merge those.Also I demand that all four pages be one mega awesome page promoting the theory that the Chocobo Chick and Chocolina were really Dysley in disguise the whole time.
I think we should keep them separate for the spoiler reason, and because I think there is enough content for two pages for each identity of the character.
Ashe has already appeared as the princess in the opening FMV. Amalia thing is not a spoiler.Spoiler surnames are inconvenient, but it'd be tricky to make a rule against them.
I agree with Blue here, we already have precedent so, may as well make shit consistent.
Hurr, I feel that Chocolina stands a bit apart from Barthandelus/Dysley/Mydia/Judge of Wings since there is an actual spoilery period of time where the two aren't really linked together at all if the player doesn't know? Chocolina doesn't even appear until XIII-2. From what I remember, we don't even know what a Barthandelus is until Dysley obviously morphs into it in front of us, and Mydia's appearances in RW were all done with the understanding that she is the Judge of Wings.That being said, even though spoiler reasons may not even matter at all, my opinion is to keep Chocolina/Chocobo Chick separate. Or yeah, just fuse all 6 of them, problemu solved.
There's also some Final Fantasy Dimensions character who has two articles, one for each identity he appears in, on the wiki. But those three might be the only ones. 8Bit makes a good argument that "Mydia" is introduced as the Judge of Wings's true persona, and never existed as "two people" that surprise surprise were the same person all along.
I think Chocolina is basically a different character from the chick. They don't seem to coexist in any meaningful way. The chick even appears as a chick still with Sazh in FFXIII-2. And in Lightning Returns, it is still with Sazh as the chick, and also as the woman at the canvas of prayers. It seems more like a little joke added in that they are supposed to be the same "person".The least spoilery way to combine Dysley and Barthandelus I guess would be to name the article Galenth Dysley...since he's the one he is introduced as...and then say under the spoiler tags that he is actually Barthandelus. But then is it weird if Dysley is the fake persona and Barthandelus is the true persona. But you never even knew Bart existed before you see Dysley transform so.
The twitter crowd seems split about 50-50. These are mostly readers, you know, the people the wiki is written for. Generally people who are in favor of two pages are willing to compromise if spoilers are hidden by default.I think it's fine as well as the spoiler isn't right there in the name (e.g. Galenth Dysley, not Barthandelus, like Kelt said). I don't have an opinion ofn Chocolina because I've never played Britain Returns: European Fantasy XVI or whatever it's called.
Chocolina explicitly states in LR she is the Chocobo Chick turned into a woman. Why she can exist as both the chick and the woman is a fair question, but given how she was able to operate in XIII-2, it can likely be chalked up to time shenanigans.
And for the record, even if we keep the pages separate, I'm probably gonna move "Chocobo Chick to "Chocolina" because LR confirms straight that is what Dajh named it. It's just a matter if the two pages will be merged, or tagged, but the bird has a proper name that should be used for it. (Though in the context of FF13 we should still refer to it as the Chocobo chick, as in that timeframe it had no name yet).
As for how the characters exist free of spoilers or not, that should not be an issue. I said on the IRC the other day that avoiding spoilers should not take priority over proper organization, because it creates problems. Characters like Ultimecia and Garland (FF9) are significant spoilers for their game by nature of simply existing, but we do not avoid mentioning them in articles to avoid spoilers, do we? I can't speak to Dimensions, but to repeat what I said above - why would we give "The Hooded Man" a separate page from Kain Highwind for the sake of TAY? Same for Golbez/The Man in Black.
Splitting alter-egoes or aliases off from the parent for the sake of avoiding spoilers confuses organization (do we list both The Hooded Man and Kain as being able to equip items on appropriate pages? Are they listed separately on the template?), makes it less convenient for readers that they now have to navigate between two different articles to get the full story on the same character, and creates excess articles we don't need. And all just to avoid spoilers when, as Scathe said, readers navigate the Wiki at their own risk.
Now, that being said, I am fine with naming the page "Galenth Dysley" and avoiding mention of his true name in the intro to accommodate policy. Same with merging Chocolina and avoiding mentioning in the intro that the chick is the woman. But I have to strongly disagree with the decision to keep their alter-egoes separate articles.
Well, for the time being looks like there's no clear majority, unless anyone else has thoughts?
I just saw this, also wanted to mentioned that FFA Julius and Mysterious Man are merge within the same article. Much of the things have already been said and I agree to the merger. Anything that I said has already been said. Also... If anyone has the internet, they are already spoiling themselves. Google search doesn't hide spoilers now does it? Google "Star Wars Darth Vader", they spoiled it by saying his real name in some of the search results. Fenrir9 (talk) 14:32, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
- i also support the merger. as per policy i believe we should name her Chocobo Chick in FFXIII articles when referring to her but Chocolina thereafter. There's also actually a very low likelihood anyone would explicitly search for her? I think the only chance they have is if they clicked on "Chocobo Chick" in Sazh's article probably. I'm also of the mind that the spoilers where avoidable in intro policy wouldn't apply in this circumstance simply because in the grand scheme of things, the sequels appear to establish quite publicly as fact that the world changes drastically / ends, and any initial spoiler linking Choc Chick and Chocolina simply alludes to this. As for Galenth/Barthandelus, Barthandelus is his real name afaik, so that would be preferable--Arciele Spira (talk) 15:26, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
Summing up, it's me, Techno (via IRC, originally discussed this with him), Blue, Hexed, Scathe, Fenrir, and Spira support the merge, Kelt, SCM, and 8bit oppose, and Catuse support Dysley merge but no opinion on Chocolina. Not gonna jump the gun in case people wanna contribute, but I'm feeling this is enough of a majority to do the merger later tonight.