Gilgameshkun - Making a mistake is not the same thing as being stupid. Making a criticism is not the same thing as making an insult. Expressing doubt is not the same thing as being contemptuous. Daring to believe you're correct is not the same thing as being a smartass. But you should cite your sources.[citation needed] TALK - 12:10, 6 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
After speaking about the matter in depth with User:Otherarrow and User:Yuanchosaan, I have a proposal. The Final Fantasy Wiki should have a collection of media categories, à la Wikimedia Commons. Media for media's sake. This way, lots of different stock art and audio is not only neatly and logically organized in sections (rather than alphabetically in categories), but provides beautiful and more convenient browsing interface for media. In this sense, the FFWiki would not be merely just like Wikipedia, but also like Wikimedia Commons in terms of gallery functions. Not only this, but it could neatly host otherwise unused media that are currently and tediously collected in Special:UnusedImages. The logic behind this is that even if they are not used in the wiki article pages, they are used for media gallery pages, thus doing more than sitting idle in a category, but contributing to the value and richness of the wiki as a whole. In addition, there could be additional pages for collecting fanart and fanmusic in Commons-style galleries. Not just by users for the sake of fostering community, but also truly exceptional fanart and fanmusic from the outside, by artists who grant their permission for it to be stored and displayed in the wiki. Why am I doing this? Well, after a series of events, it started to become apparent that the rules and guidelines in Final Fantasy Wiki:Media aren't quite what they appear to be. As a relative newcomer, I started contributing media. Game media at first. Then my own fanart. Then, adhering to the written rule:
...I thought, logically, that this meant I could find good fanarts and fanmusics from people outside the wiki, secure their permission to repost it, and post it here. Having before contributed media to Wikimedia Commons, I figured that the fanart gallery was in the spirit of collecting beautiful media to display in galleries to enrich this wiki. So using this method, I secured permission for and uploaded two fanarts I considered truly exceptional: Image:(SilverFenrir) Final Fantasy XI - Brothers In Arms.jpg and Image:(Geremy Walker) Final Fantasy VI Cast.jpg. I was happy to upload the first one, but I realized that, as essentially non-hentai gay fanart, it didn't have broad appeal here. User:Diablocon told me it was good art and a valid upload, but made straight people uncomfortable. Then I uploaded the second picture which was universally positively received in #ffwiki. Emboldened by this, I sought to talk to Diablocon as soon as I could to make sure everything was in order. Then Diablocon said a couple things that turned my understanding of the wiki upside down. He said that I really shouldn't post the fanart on the FFWiki fanart page, because it's for users only (not understood by me). He also said that, unless I put the fanart in a user space page, he couldn't let it stay. While it was fully acknowledged all around that I had acted in good faith and in accordance to the rules, Diablocon told me that he felt that I had made use of a flaw in the rules. And the thing was, I didn't even know I was doing it. The more I spoke with Diablocon and other users, it became clear that there were a lot of unwritten understandings, and that some of the clearly posted media rules were either not universally held in esteem, or simply were never tested. As it turned out, I was unknowingly the first person ever to successfully upload outside fanart which didn't break the rules. And when the reaction to this was so mixed, it was greatly embarrassing and unsettling to me as a user. But in talking with the others about this, and in learning about pages like Special:UnusedImages for the first time, it seemed like a shame that all this unused media—both canonical and fanart—had to be deleted simply because it was not used in articles. Diablocon for his part had not even heard of Wikimedia Commons until I mentioned the term "Commons-style" in chat and he asked what that meant. And as I discussed the matter with Otherarrow and Yuanchosaan, I thought, why not have a Commons-style network of gallery pages? It beautifies and enriches the wiki, and the media gets used in a meaningful way. Because, let me tell you, I had already planned a huge amount of game-related media to upload too (such as all the backgrounds to FF7 and FF8 in pristine lossless PNG), and it was depressing to think that much of it might get deleted if it wasn't promptly used. In this structured gallery system, canon media and non-canon media could be neatly separated but also mutually linked, so people can browse canonical media only if they want, or fanart only if they want, or both. As for the criteria of inclusion of external fanart, Diablocon raised the concern that there would be a flood of unworthy outside art uploads. He told me that my fanart uploads had better be "damn exceptional". And that's not unreasonable, he's absolutely right. I have no allusions of the FFWiki being a social network or a full-fledged art community, but it would seem like a shame to completely rule out a good collection of outside fanart either. Basically, my rule of thumb would be, secure permission first, but upload it only if you think it's a worthy piece of art. This may be left largely to the discretion of the uploader, since users who blatantly mass-upload the good, the bad and the ugly, would probably be pretty obvious. Now, I hope that wasn't too long-winded, but I wanted to make this proposal as thorough as I could possibly think to do. | |||
I have mixed feelings on this, mostly the part concerning other people's fanart as I believe that the wiki should only hold user submited fan art. Besides that, I could see the use of it to hold useful images and media that would otherwise not make it into articles for whatever reason, wheither it be space, lack of a appropriate part of the article, etc. Oh, and for those who do not know, Gil tends to be long winded like that. | |||
Gilgameshkun - Making a mistake is not the same thing as being stupid. Making a criticism is not the same thing as making an insult. Expressing doubt is not the same thing as being contemptuous. Daring to believe you're correct is not the same thing as being a smartass. But you should cite your sources.[citation needed] TALK - 12:25, 6 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
Yeah, sorry about the long-windedness. But as for the fanart, we need to decide. Should there be outside fanart on the FFWiki? If not, then I'd be willing to have the two uploads deleted as controversy I didn't want in the first place. But if it truly is a concrete allowance, then the rule should be clearer, if at least to allay User:Diablocon's genuine concern that there would be a flood of crappy outside media. Still, there are some outside fanart I could see truly enriching the wiki, such as ocremixes. Note that I tend to fluidly treat images, audio, fiction, etc. all as art. | |||
Template:ILHI
Personally, I too have mixed reaction to this. For one, even if we create a "commons" as per wikipedia we would still rely on wikia servers for the storage of our media files. And then there's the whole wikia image policy that limitless may the upload number be, they should be uploaded for use in the wiki. Plus, we're emulating the wikipedia project if we do this. Free content is encouraged, but this may not be what we would have aim to be doing. We also encourage usermade fanart, not ones done by others already hosted somewhere in the internets. | |||
I've opposed this idea from the beginning for the same reasons that ILHI listed. But then I was called "a jerk" in so many words. Well, what are you going to do? | |||
Template:ILHI
I'm against the deletion of all unused images. A number of the images are unused due to editors not realising they exist, or the images not having a suitable article to place them within (for example, the FFTA2 enemy sprites were sitting in the Special:Unusedimages until the enemy articles were created.)
That said, I'm against the mass uploading of images which will remain unused. It is already extremely difficult to sort through Special:Unused for dups, copyright violations etc. I also feel that the purpose of the fanart section is to promote community spirit, and would not be bolstered by art created by non-users. | |||
I strongly oppose the deletion of unused images. What would we do with all the Amano artwork that just can't be placed at the time on any page. It's idiotic to even consider it. | |||
Gilgameshkun - Making a mistake is not the same thing as being stupid. Making a criticism is not the same thing as making an insult. Expressing doubt is not the same thing as being contemptuous. Daring to believe you're correct is not the same thing as being a smartass. But you should cite your sources.[citation needed] TALK - 08:30, 7 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
I'm strongly considering withdrawing this proposal. Though unused media and guest fanart may be unpopular to some users, I really did upload them all in good faith according to my understanding of the rules. I'm still relatively new here. All the scrutiny of the past few days has felt especially hostile and discouraging to my involvement, since I don't want to be especially controversial. But I believe you all are good editors and know at least some of what you are doing and that gives you all a strong purpose here. Anyway, I've been assured that the guest fanart will not be deleted as long as it's in a gallery and it's fairly good. And Yuanchosaan more or less guaranteed me that useful unused media will not be deleted. So how about this? I'll continue doing what I do, and you all continue doing what you do, and as long as we're all reasonably following the rules, we try not to step on each other's toes too much. :3 My toes are sore enough lately... Afterall, we're here for a bigger reason than just ourselves. We're here for the wiki, to improve the wiki, and to enrich the wiki. And that's been my sincere desire ever since I registered my account. | |||