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|text=What Drake should consider is perhaps hosting the second half of FFVIII. Since my game footage only extends as far as Disc 2 before my saved file got lost on a dead computer. (Also it kinda thematically fits me, since honestly, the game never recovers from the loss of Edea as the main antagonist and I've never stopped complaining about that.) However, that would deeply sadden me since I really did fire all cylinders at actually finishing FFVIII this time and of course, I truly doubt any of you even come close to caring about this LP and its success or failure as much as I do.}} |
|text=What Drake should consider is perhaps hosting the second half of FFVIII. Since my game footage only extends as far as Disc 2 before my saved file got lost on a dead computer. (Also it kinda thematically fits me, since honestly, the game never recovers from the loss of Edea as the main antagonist and I've never stopped complaining about that.) However, that would deeply sadden me since I really did fire all cylinders at actually finishing FFVIII this time and of course, I truly doubt any of you even come close to caring about this LP and its success or failure as much as I do.}} |
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| + | {{TA|01:02, April 13, 2013 (UTC)|I think it will be hard to find a rotating group of people who are interested in addressing FFVIII strictly as a game, throughout. It is largely considered one of the weakest titles in the series, and there are pretty significant stretches of the game that are 'uneventful'.}} |
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== Sign-upz == |
== Sign-upz == |
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Revision as of 01:02, 13 April 2013
BlueHighwind Q? 05:33, March 14, 2013 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
First, let's watch the trailer!: | |||
BlueHighwind Q? 05:33, March 14, 2013 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
Now that the silliness is past, I'm willing to officially announce this project, that anybody on the IRC would already know is happening. The first two episodes are already recorded, and the first episode is ready to go up this Saturday. FFVIII will probably mean a slightly longer project than FFVI. Right now its looking like... twenty videos, approximately. Now I'm announcing this just so that thoughts can be shared, people who haven't LPed before can sign up, maybe I can set a schedule of recording, I dunno. But so far the videos we've made are quite good, and I'm liking where we're going. This time, it isn't going to be a huge mess like the Mystic Quest LP. Its being heavily edited before recordings, I'm making sure the recordings are entertaining before posting, and the videos won't look like crap. May we have a good LP! For the Wiki! For Justice! For Lady Edea, May Her Rule Be Long and Glorious! | |||
Thoughtz
I'd be willing to do a filler LP during a disc switch or something to give BH a break similar to his Mystic Quest LP for me. Maybe a video of Ehrgeiz or something else (Crystal Bearers? Chocobo Racing?) that would only be a few weeks or so. ScatheMote 19:49, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
Is Squall named Squall? 89.243.247.153 19:58, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
Before anyone else asks, I am not going to be joining on this (or any of the LPs for the wiki). However, I do wish you all the best of luck with these~ | |||
Blue, you said the next video was 6PM EST or 10pm UTC. Which one is it, because EST is five hours before UTC, so that would mean 11pm UTC if it was 6pm EST.
If it is 10pm UTC, I can do it, but if it is 11pm, I can't. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 18:57, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
- EST would be five hours before UTC, but Daylight Savings Time just kicked in, so I believe currently it is in fact four hours before UTC. As proof, right now it is 15:27 EST, and UTC is... 19:27. There you go. Jimcloud 19:27, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
- I initially thought Daylight Saving, but then I thought it surely wouldn't happen this early in the month. In the UK we go from GMTGreenwich Mean Time to BSTBritish Summer Time on the 31st March, but I'm surprised the clocks go back two weeks earlier over in Yankee Doodle world. Anyway, my mistake, and I shall declare myself in. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 21:32, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
DrakemasterDrake - "I would rather live a short life of glory than a long one of obscurity." TALK - {{{time}}} The clock on this site is so messed up, why bother? | |||
Wow, it's been a while since I've been on here. Just wanted to drop by and say I watched the first episode and found it entertaining. I look forward to following the LP (I JUST found out that the Final Fantasy Wiki is doing LPs now when I decided to check the Wiki for some info on Final Fantasy VII). | |||
The direction the LP is taking
It has been brought up to my attention that many users are unhappy with the way BlueHighwind is managing the LP. Several complaints have been made regarding both some decisions made during the playthrough and the commenting going on:
As far as I've been able to gather, the overall feeling is that BlueHighwind is running the project as if it were his own, rather than as being that of the Final Fantasy Wiki. A user has even pointed out that the description section of each video, which includes links to each commentator's user page on the Wiki, actually links to BH's blog, rather than his own user page. I am certainly not about to take any actions before having the input of other users, but I do believe something needs to be done about these issues, as I feel they reflect poorly on the Wiki and its community. | |||
I do not feel the renaming of things is a huge deal, and at this point it would be much too much of a hassle to fix now, and the sidetracked discussions are a part of the LP, were back in FF6 and we joked about it.
I do consider issues though, to be the personal insults (having directly heard some of them), and in general yes, the FF8 LP is being run like one of Blue's personal projects rather than a Wiki project. He links to his blog over his userpage as mentioned and constantly talks about how he hates the game, as well as renaming Squall "Blue". The LP is a Wiki project, the host is little more than the one providing the footage and showing it to the other three. This all just gives this LP a more casual and immature atmosphere in tone, which I don't think we should aim for. We should have fun of course, but there has to be professionalism. | |||
Sorceror Nobody – The supreme nonentity Talk · Flan's Elbow Colosseum · MSPA Wiki · 17:42, April 10, 2013 (UTC) "I can detect matter down to one atom in a vacuum the size of the moon, and apparently, this guy doesn't exist" -- Foaly | |||
On the subject of video descriptions, one in particular comes to mind, which ended up being deleted by Catuse. Regardless of the fact that it was on a raw footage video and thus not visible to the public, a description of a rape hentai concluding with a comparison of the game to the rapist and the LP to the baby is completely inappropriate.
Mostly, my overwhelming concern is simply that anything placed on the wiki's channel is tacitly approved by the wiki as a community, and therefore affects the wiki's reputation. As a member of said community, I wish to register my disapproval of inappropriate content – especially where it is public by way of being in the recorded video itself, such as Angelo's name – as well as the general attitude being demonstrated by BH in treating the project as anything other than belonging to the wiki, rather than himself. The LP host should, in a sense, be servant to the project. Not the other way around. | |||
Aye. I have already shared some of my feelings about how BH is handling the LP. I will admit that I haven't watched the VIII LP (I started but stopped because of some of the above reasons), but I've heard enough about it.
The LP is not being handled as an FFWiki LP but as BH's LP. Scathe made jokes, but I was satisfied enough because they were FFWiki in-jokes. Not something unrelated the host added because he liked it or thought it would be funny despite having no relevance to the game or the wiki.
The fact that BH's userpage isn't being linked is also something I have a problem with, and just another thing that shows this isn't being treated as the FFWiki's LP-- because BH is practically trying to remain unaffiliated. JBed (talk) 17:53, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
I'll admit the stuff of the naming is somewhat unnecessary. "Orafice" can be changed using a Pet's Nametag, the GF names can be changed using a Rename Card, but "Blue" and "Squirtle" cannot be changed as far as I know, and the latter will be used again in one of the final bosses.
So far I've done two LP episodes, and unfortunately I have heard of one personal attack on another LP commentator, for which I will not name at this moment. It does make me wonder who else had been personally insulted, and, whether it was recorded or not, it's just not professional.
On the other hand what action would we take? Say we let someone else take it over, who would do it? I think not finishing it, or worse still, completely abandon the idea of LPs in the future would be a real shame. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 18:31, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
- Well, I certainly don't see any reason why this would lead to all future LPs being called off (though it will certainly give pause to BH hosting in future, I suspect). The most that will happen, I imagine, is this LP being deleted from the channel. Whether it's moved to BH's channel is a separate matter that concerns the wishes of those involved in each respective part -- Sorceror Nobody
19:17, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
I have noticed a few users expressing concern about this issue (including in private channels to me), and unfortunately I must concur with the general sentiment. Blue as a host tends to imprint the LP with his own personal stamp, and in this case that means a great deal of negativity towards the game - going so far as to include an extra screen that says "FFVIII fans: your game sucks" or something along that line in one of the episodes. Blue obviously dislikes the game, but many people - including some of the LPers - do, and a project with the wiki's approval ought not insult them so directly. The constant stream of complaints about the game have already become tiresome and unamusing.
The other thing that concerns me is that when one of the users expressed concern about this on the IRC, Blue essentially replied with "I do what I please with the LP". However, I think a less drastic solution might be possible if we can be flexible about this:
If these conditions can be fulfilled, would everyone consider it satisfactory to retain Blue as a host? Otherwise, I can see the following few possibilities:
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8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 23:38, April 10, 2013 (UTC) | |||
I would like to emphasize that the video descriptions be acceptable to everyone that has the potential to view the wiki. There may inevitably be profanity, but any graphic discussion cannot be acceptable. The overall direction of the LP can deviate from a positive focus on FFVIII; I do not think that is as much of a problem as the offensiveness of the negativity directed towards the game and to fellow users. Unless Blue is propagating these attacks on his own, some of us are also implicit. The IRC is not exactly an innocent haven and I have been witness to the slandering of other, absent users in a pack-like mentality. I'm not trying to marginalize any attacks by Blue, nor equate IRC discussion to be as exposed to the public and representative of our wiki as the LP, but I think it is accurate to say that the type of base gossip and language exposed on the LP is often displayed on the IRC as well. If we want to positively change the direction of LPs in the future, regardless of the host, we can start with ourselves. Hopefully we can do this and agree upon the points Yuan has made. | |||
^^Agree with the final paragraph. Talking behind people's backs is hardly something that never happens. Before an LP starts is just another medium, and as long as it doesn't go into the LP it is far from relevant.
Not that it's right, and I'd prefer it to happen never. But if we really want this to be about how BH is handling the LP, I don't think bringing up BH attacking other users not in the LP is something to debate here-- this isn't about BH being a bad person. JBed (talk) 01:09, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
 Catuse says at 02:20, April 11, 2013 (UTC) "Somewhere a zealous god threads these strings between the clouds and the earth, preparing for a symphony it fears impossible to play. And so it threads on, and on, delaying the raise of the conductor's baton." | |||
We all have our outbursts and behind-the-scenes talking, I've crossed the line probably one too many times -- mostly in side channels* in relation to one or two people. I need to kick the habit, we all do really. Back on topic, scrapping the FFVIII LP seems like a bit of an extreme move. Disowning it maybe, but the problem is mostly just the LP getting treated like Blue's personal project when it isn't. Stop viewing it as a single guy's project at wherever the recording is up to (the road to Esthar?), clean up some of the earlier videos if necessary (I've only seen up through Episode 2, so I dunno what the videos from there to the battle against Galbadia Garden are like), and (hopefully) everything will be fine. Going off topic is a non-issue IMO; how often did the FFVI LP actually stay on topic? As for the naming issue**, PSXEC is always an option. *Speaking of side channels, I thought it was a Super Duper Secret that I removed that video description? But eh, doesn't matter, the video's been removed anyways. **Not that I have a problem with the final boss merging with a Squirtle of course. Reminds me of Jackspers Noirlecrow... though we all know how well that ended. | |||
TidusTehSacrificer357 - "Yo' luck's 'bout to change!" TALK - 02:32, April 11, 2013 (UTC) - "Place your bet!" | |||
You all say that it isn't Blue's project... Yet he's the one actually playing the game. Just saying. And really, if he shows how to beat the game, yadda yadda yadda, it might as well be impersonal and "fun". Thus it is called an LP, not a Walkthrough. (And, no, I'm not condoning personal attacks or rape hentai or whatever. Just pointing this out.) EDIT at 02:43, April 11, 2013 (UTC): Also, Fae, I do believe it is necessary to leave a time stamp. | |||
I believe you have completely and utterly missed the point, Tidus. The LP currently has the FFWiki's name in the title, not Blue's. Whoever is the person playing the game is, in fact, completely and utterly irrelevent, because this is The Final Fantasy Wiki Plays not BlueHighwind Plays While Three Other Guys Gawk At. The running of the LP is subject to the same processes by which we run the wiki, i.e. we run on consensus, nobody has a greater say than anyone else, etc, etc. If a large amount of the wiki has a problem with the LP, then there is a problem.
Also nobody likes people being pedants over timestamps. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 03:04, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
"Just saying."
"Just pointing this out."
- 
Tidus357 03:34, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
- I know I already yelled at you over the IRC over this, yet I do not feel satisfied. The "I'm just saying!" defence does not, in fact, mean anything, because you still felt the need to say it. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 08:51, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
- Inevitably I think no decision can be made until we hear BlueHighwind's version of events. In the meantime, I feel we shouldn't post any more videos until this discussion is closed. It's a shame because I think the current episode (episode 3) is the best one we made thus far, although "Orafice" at the end spoiled it a bit. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 10:13, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
I do agree that this has become Blue's project, and not the wiki's. It's one homophobic joke away from the Spoony review of it. What I don't think is a problem is the insulting of VIII. Mostly because we had no trouble insulting games like The After Years and XIII-2 in the VI LP. Blue might be harsher, but, really, insulting the other, less popular FF games is something that happened in the VI LP. Which brings me to the question: why do a Let's Play of VIII at all? We know it's a massive Base Breaker, and that people are going to get pissed when it's brought up. I mean, I like X-2, but I would never do a LP of it, because not a lot of people like it, and it would end up as the VIII one is now. | |||
BlueHighwind Q? 14:27, April 11, 2013 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
First of all, pretty much all the silliness and off-topic stuff went on in FFVI. The tone of this LP is not very different from that one. I was going to come on today and announce the just incredible amount of technical issues I'm having and requesting that you guys help me and hold onto some of the LP videos and audio with Dropbox until I can get my computer fixed. But as it looks like, I don't need to do that. That pains me a great deal, more than I could probably possibly explain in a text bubble. I've put a lot of work and had a great deal of hope in the positive conclusion of this project, and nothing I've done has been any more provocative than anything ANY OF YOU HAVE SAID ON THE GAME. There is blood and sweat in every single one of those videos, I've been making this LP on busted-up computer with problems in every direction. Every hour of video you see is the product of easily five or six times that in terms of work. And I'm sorry if you're dissatisfied. Which is shocking since half of you have actually been involved the recordings and as far as I could tell, we were all having a great time talking with each other and being friends. Anyway, I know I'm the one running the LP. I know I'm a pretty silly person, my concern is only to entertain, which is what an LP should do. And for the most part, all of you here have seen the videos, and you knew what was in it. And guess what? You guys are in the Let's Play. Yeah, is my Let's Play, and I'll rename things here and here for some humor. What, you don't have a humorous Let's Play? You guys didn't want the subject to go off-topic? You didn't want it to be negative? You all signed on for BLUEHIGHWIND to play FFVIII, I don't know where you got the idea that negativity wouldn't be an issue, since I've said hundreds of times over the years I don't like this game. The Mystic Quest Let's Play was an unending bitch fest, far worse than anything we've said on FFVIII. And I've given FFVIII more than a fair shake, I've found myself enjoying it more than I though I would. But its a FAIR shake. FAIR. I'm not going to suck its cock because some people enjoy it. And remember, the tone of the LP isn't decided by me. Its decided by me and everybody else who is recording. ITS YOUR VOICES UP THERE. You guys choose to hate on Rinoa, and everything else that happens. Ultimately, conversations are going to turn positive and negative, I can't control it, and I made sure to open this LP up to anybody who wanted to join. I haven't heard a single person defend much of ANYTHING about FFVIII on the recordings besides Faethin defending Squall ONCE. Anyway: personal attacks. No such thing has ever made it into any of the videos. I don't think I've said a bad thing about anybody except complain about Jimcloud not wearing headphones. And if bad things were said, it would be no more than natural human interaction, where people say bad things about each other. I have no idea what any of you are talking about. But if something did happen, I apologize, but it cannot be anything worse than what goes on in the IRC chatroom every damn day. Inappropriate video descriptions: none of those videos are open to the public. Every public video title is perfectly reasonable and sane. I put silly thins in the non-public video descriptions. I didn't think anybody would care, apparently you all do. I can't say I fully understand what the problem is, but it as a favor to all of you, nearly all of whom I consider my friend, to make you all feel better, that won't happen again (then again, its all academic if there even will be an LP from this point out). Renaming characters: whoever has a problem with this - grow up. FFVIII gives me the option to do that. And I'm going to. What, am I not allowed to put any creative spin on this? Renaming characters leads to plenty of good entertaining material, and that's the point of this project. To be entertaining. And to hang out with my FFWiki buddies for an hour a week. Angelo getting renamed "Orafice [sic]" is edgy, but nobody in the video told me that I was wrong for doing so. And I'm a cursing man, I do it. I made lewd jokes - I'm not the only one. If this is going to come down to what I can and cannot say (within the reason of not entering hate speech), then the LP is over. I want nothing to do with it. I'm going to put my own creative stamp on this thing, I'm sorry, and if I can't do that, then this holds zero interest to me. And probably would hold zero interest to anybody else. I'm not sure how many Let's Plays Faethin has seen, but the one he holds in his mind sounds horrifically boring and pointless to me. So I'm sorry if this is long, but there's a great deal to be said. But again, its all academic, since my computer is truly broken, and the best I can do right now is back-up what material is finished before I get it fixed or replaced. And if you're really unhappy with the LP, DON'T WATCH IT. Its a fan project. We have hundreds of these things everywhere. You don't have to read all the walkthroughs, or the giant epic forums of user adventures, or the comic, or anything else we've done. | |||
Let me make my point across the "Orafice" issue - I'm not a confrontational person, and yes, at the time when I did the LP I thought it was funny. In fact I believe we expressed more of a concern that Blue spelled the name wrong, rather than the name itself. However, with a bit of hindsight in mind, maybe it was a bit too much, bearing in mind that we are putting the FFWiki's name on it. Let me also make it clear that I don't mind the naming of the GF's - it's additional punctuation, nothing more. Like Blue, I also have views about Final Fantasy VIII and its characters, and it's natural to make them clear when we do a Let's Play. I've said that I didn't like Squall, Zell, Rinoa and Irvine very much on the recordings, but I've also said that I liked the characters of Laguna, Ward and Kiros. In fact there was a bit of a debate when I was talking about enemies levelling up as you do, that I didn't like that concept (I can't remember exactly what I said - it will be on Part 3.3). Either Catuse or Tia (couldn't remember which) countered that argument. I ask what is wrong with that? I fear that if you take out all of that, there wouldn't be much to say. The only thing I don't like are the personal attacks, which was uncalled for, and maybe the linking to Blue's YouTube page and not his userpage. Most other things (including when we get sidetracked from the game - it adds to the charm and it was always happening in VI anyway) I'm all right with. | |||
I also think I speak for everyone when I say we do not hate the LP. We're simply concerned about the content and tone it's taking on, but no one is asking for it to be stopped. There is no one single issue, but admittedly it does largely boil down to how you, Blue, are treating the project as a personal project and not a wiki-wide project, which is influencing it in what many consider a negative manner. It isn't as simple as us wanting to change what you can and cannot say, in fact for me I'd say that's a minor part of it.
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Tia-Lewise - Tread lightly, she is near, under the snow. Speak gently, she can hear the daisies grow TALK - Summoner of Nyan 15:35, April 11, 2013 (UTC) | |||
This all seems to have exploded since the release of the most recent episodes...and I should point out that we did have BH, who doesn't like VIII, Jimcloud, who doesn't like Rinoa, and me, who doesn't like most of the way the game actually functions (I have no idea where Jeppo stands). We had a team of VIII dislikers, so we were going to end up with something a little shipwrecked from everything else somewhere down the line. Orafice was funny mostly because it was misspelt, and I also have a habit of renaming my GFs and characters with silly names, but can't we learn from this? If we're representing the Wiki, sure, we need to put on a bit more of a professional front, but let's not obscure the fun completely. We all make mistakes, and let's remember we were letting BlueHighwind, the world's biggest VIII hater, do this. Somewhere there would have been something we didn't like, because that's our Blue. | |||
As a fan of VIII, I had my issues with the LP being done for it. I was kind of half expecting just a bashfest. It turned out better than I thought, though I've only seen a few videos. I think people are voicing their opinions and though there is criticism towards the game, it isn't the bashfest I was expecting, which surprised me in a good way. I think it may be a good idea to have someone who actually likes the game participating, so that maybe the discussions can be a bit more two-sided. But as I said, I haven't seen all of it, so maybe I've got the wrong impression. SetzerLeonhart (talk) 15:48, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
- I kinda agree with SetzerLeonhart here. ValkeaKuolema (talk) 16:11, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
- We have had people participating who like the game. Because you've just admitted you haven't watched many of them, you wouldn't know that. Tia-Lewise 16:18, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
- Well, good then, just voicing the impression I had... SetzerLeonhart (talk) 16:24, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
- We have had people participating who like the game. Because you've just admitted you haven't watched many of them, you wouldn't know that. Tia-Lewise
BlueHighwind Q? 16:31, April 11, 2013 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
I would point out, this isn't a bash fest. And I'm not the world's biggest FFVIII hater. For the most part, criticisms of this game have been legitimate complaints, and I've even defended the game several times. This is a fair shake. The problem is that we all more or less accept that FFVIII isn't very good, and we're going to be critical. This particular episode is harsh, but I think the next one isn't quite so much (though I do get in a bad mood when the game spends too much time talking). And Orafice or Oriface, I don't remember which, is just being silly. Luckily I almost never get Quistis' Limit Break, its appeared... once so far, I think. This isn't like the running joke with Zell. I guess the point is, in future videos we'll try to be more positive. My main focus is being entertaining though to the audience, and if I can, get in some authentic game criticism. Unfortunately, most of us don't seem to care for FFVIII's storyline and there is going to be A LOT OF IT. Edit: I can also link to my user page if you guys want that in the future. But my user page is just a link to the blog, so I don't see much point to it. Also, I linked to my blog in the Mystic Quest LP, nobody noticed. | |||
- "FFVIII gives me the option to do that. And I'm going to."
That's exactly the problem. You are doing the LP on behalf of the wiki. If you get the option then the wiki should decide.
Not noticing != not caring. Linking to a userpage that links off to a blog is better than just linking to the blog because at least you are being associated with the wiki. As it stands it just looks like its a random person +~3 wikians.
It's an LP. I don't know if anyone else agrees, but I think the playthrough should just be a standard playthrough. Doing as much as possible (but not over-levelling), using the standard names for characters, and leaving the video mostly unedited (except to cut-out random encounters, repetition, deaths, and minutes of nothing), and let the commentary make it fun (and also how bad the host is at the game at certain points-- which should be fun of my the commentary).
E.g.: When doing the commentary, you could say "I considered naming Angelo "Orifice"", you don't need to actually do it in the game. JBed (talk) 18:26, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
- Why on Earth does FFVIII give me an option to rename characters if supposedly doing so breaks from the spirit of the game? I haven't cheated the game, nothing I've done is illegal. The designers made the game with the intention that players could have the barest freedom of creativity in character names - which I've used.
- Oh, and Scathe named Gogo "Adalai" with no issues from anybody. And I am certain that Gogo has shown up more times in Scathe's LP than Angelo will ever appear in mine. You guys love having legal precedent, there's mine. --BlueHighwindツ 19:27, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
I was going to mention most of thing that Blue mentioned in his post as a sort of counterargument, but I didn't want to speak for him. The sidetracking discussion portion was the middle episodes of FFVI (episode ~4-~10). I have not felt like the discussion have been nearly as off topic as some of the Final Fantasy VI have been. Maybe it is because I've been a more minor character in this LP, but I have felt that at least someone in the discussion attempts to pull the discussion back to the game. I don't know, maybe I don't have enough information. I haven't yet watched the 3rd episode, so I don't know if something egregious happens there or not, and I've only participated in two episodes. But I really feel like BH put a ton of work into this LP. A lot more than I ever did for FFVI, especially in the WoB (with episodes being recorded the day before they went up and all). He's fought technical problems tooth and nail as long as possible (until now, I suppose). Of course, the amount of work put into this is not up for debate, but I do think it is good to have in this discussion. So yeah, I'm not really sure where I'm going with this. I think criticism can be a good thing: we want to make our LPs get better and better. I guess we should take this as an experience from which to grow. It's good that these problems were brought up (regardless of how) so that we can make the best stuff we can. (Because of BH's technical difficulties, we are going to run out of content soon. I did say that I would do a filler LP of sorts to keep the schedule going, but if anyone else wants to do something so that we can continue to have content, I'm all for it.) | |||
- "Why on Earth does FFVIII give me an option to rename characters if supposedly doing so breaks from the spirit of the game? I haven't cheated the game, nothing I've done is illegal. The designers made the game with the intention that players could have the barest freedom of creativity in character names - which I've used.
That doesn't respond to anything I said.
- "Oh, and Scathe named Gogo "Adalai" with no issues from anybody. And I am certain that Gogo has shown up more times in Scathe's LP than Angelo will ever appear in mine. You guys love having legal precedent, there's mine."
Two things: Gogo is directly tied to the name through events on the FFWiki-- it is an in-joke. I will also say that I was not a fan of the change of name either. Although now I realise there's some pseudo-in-joke for naming Angelo "Orafice", I don't understand the connection between Angelo and Nexus. Clutching straws much.
Although, yes, you're right. There is no real reason for me to be defending Scathe's LP here since I did not agree with that either. But it was one in only a small handful of things I did not like. And most of the other things I did not like were discussed and approved by the wiki anyway, so they are things I cannot argue with. JBed (talk) 19:53, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
BlueHighwind Q? --BlueHighwindツ 20:26, April 11, 2013 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
Before this turns into a circular endless discussion about whatever, let's look what I'm even capable of doing. Right now, without a real computer, I can post the next six videos on Youtube, and that's it. I've asked Scathe if he can post Episode 5. Obviously, its impossible to edit things that happened in the game, and it is exorbitantly difficult to remove that Eureka Seven screen from a previous episode, especially when all the raw materials of it have been lost. So basically, all we can work on is future videos. And honestly, that means starting Episode 7. Luckily however, I can be 70% sure that my original FFVIII file is lost due to computer death. So I can restart and rename Angelo: to whatever you guys want. I'm also going to rename Griever, to whatever you want. We can have a vote. I don't think the issue is that we're being silly - and if it is, you go home right now and stop watching, silliness is necessary to make any of this watchable - its that I'm not letting anybody else in on the silliness. So instead of me just deciding in-game jokes, we can all decide them. It ruins the surprise and honest laughter of the hosts that I wanted, but it turned into a giant avalanche of wiki shit, which I never expected. Anyway, Disc 1 is basically finished with only episodes 5 and 6 requiring editing which hopefully Scathe can do for me if my computer isn't back. I chose a song for the concert, but now we need wiki consensus on every creative decision, so we're doing that now. We should make it a democracy. What song do you want? I was going to change the music for the Squall-Rinoa space love scene since I hate Eyes on Me, is that okay with everybody? Do you have suggestions? Is the 80s Zell music a problem for anybody? Also, there was a plan for a recurring over-plot involving how I named Squall Blue and various time nonsense. Is that okay for everybody? The trailer was a general hint as to what it would be like. Should I scrap that? That was something I was very much looking forward to and scripted out, but I guess it would be too much of me. Essentially its similar to Scathe's soliloquies only more bizarre and hopefully frightening. EDIT: However, I can't compromise on naming Squall "Blue". That's too much RPG tradition for me to ignore. | |||
BlueHighwind Q? 21:03, April 11, 2013 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
Oh, I know some of you guys are really mad about the Eureka Seven thing. If I could remove it, I could. But the best option you guys have to get rid of it is download the video, cut out those few seconds with any video editing software, and reupload it. If it so annoys you. I honestly only wanted to show off one of my favorite shows ever, an anime that really touched my heart in further detail. It can be deleted with some difficulty, but you can do it. The "Orafice" thing just can't be fixed without re-recording that whole thing and re-LPing it. I'm sorry. I wish anybody had told me about it before three days before that video is scheduled to go up. Anyway, I really hope that the democratic additions at the bottom of this page fix more or less everything. I don't know what other concerns you guys have, I guess I overstepped. As for name calling, and I'm still a bit confused by this, but I'll accept I said some slightly negative things about other users to people. I can apologize for that. And that should be an end to it. | |||
Ultimately the main issue is, as has been said before, that this has been run as a personal project rather than as a Wiki project, and that is evident in the entire character of the LP, from the character names to the music inserts (done, in essence, for Author Appeal as demonstrated by the response on IRC when asked about it<BlueHighwind> that was a mostly "I'll do it however I please, thank you very much" response.) to the overwhelmingly negative attitude towards the game, culminating in the most recent episode's screen obscuring the game itself to read 'FFVIII fans: Your game sucks'. Despite this, I would not say that the project is bad per se, but I really feel that it is not a project worthy of representing the Final Fantasy Wiki. One of the main points that I dislike is how this LP seems to be completely disregarding the game itself, particularly gameplay. In the FFVI LP, Scathe covered strategy and game mechanics, up to and including a video dedicated to the sketch glitch. In this LP, Blue seems to have paid no attention to any form of strategy, and when Jimcloud had something useful to say about how the draw system works he cut across her saying 'it's difficult to LP with you because you know all this stuff and I don't give a crap'. He also went on to say that he had no idea that Diabolos was vulnerable to Blind - we are the biggest Final Fantasy database on the net and part of the point of a Wiki LP is to promote it. And I agree completely with JBed - the playthrough should be as standard as possible with the main 'character' of the LP coming from the guests; naming the main character anything other than his default name is most certainly not that. The precedent with Gogo and Angelo is valid enough in that renaming a minor character is not such a big issue (although still undesirable); the issue there is the choice of name, which is far too crude for a project representing the Wiki. As for why nobody said anything in the LP recording about the name changes, that is because nobody would have wanted to be responsible for making their recording session unusable, especially considering how schedule sensitive it can be; there is also the fact that contributors would know how far ahead the footage is recorded and would know how difficult (if not impossible) it would be to fix. There is also the fact that most of our users are non-confrontational to a fault and tend to bite their tongues until the issue reaches critical mass, as it were, rather than cause a fuss. That is what has happened here, but, make no mistake, it has been coming for a while. | |||
The difference between the negativity directed towards other games and that towards FFVIII is that the latter is the focus of this LP, and therefore the impression is of unremitting dislike. I know part of it is exaggerated for humour, but I was beginning to think that Blue really hated playing the game and that it was a struggle to record it, whereas I always had the impression that we enjoyed FFVI.
The compromise I suggested is precisely that: a compromise. It reflects what I thought was consensus, so if everyone is okay with it being off-topic, for example, then that element can stay. My personal impression is similar to Ark's in that I would like it to be a bit more about gameplay, but Blue is correct in saying this is a product of all the users. Is the negativity the same? I would say that Blue underestimates his force of personality, which on the one hand makes him a charismatic and entertaining host, but on the other, tends to make the non-confrontational users go with his flow. I would also add an additional reason to the ones provided above for why no one commented on this during the LPs, and that is because, Blue, you are a well-liked user, and no one wanted to lose your friendship and cause distress by saying it during a recording. Unfortunately, this does make it look like we're suddenly stabbing you in the back in this forum. So I think I speak for most of the users when I say: I know you've put a lot of work and dedication into it. That some elements of it are not appropriate for the wiki does not detract from the fact that I have enjoyed the LP, and talking about silly things over Teamspeak (even when the recording is lost!), and that I would probably continue LPing with you regardless of wiki-officialness if you still wished me to. It probably feels like we were attacking you and the quality of the LP. It's not that: merely whether it ought to represent the wiki. I hope you understand that. This is all pretty much moot given the extreme technical difficulties at the moment, but I wanted to explain a bit about my motivation, at least. Now, what are we going to do? | |||
I will update FFVIII to the best of my abilities until we run out of footage around episode 5. That is where we reach an impasse. Thankfully, this is the end of disc 1 so it makes sense to have a little break there. I have suggested doing a filler LP to keep a constant update schedule (kinda like MQ, but actually planed to be in between FFVIII). As I've stated above, I can do this if people want. I am sorta busy right now, but I can try my best to do a filler game if possible (it will probably be Final Fantasy Adventure if I do it). However, if anyone else wants to take over now, I would have no qualms with it at all. | |||
BlueHighwind Q? 01:48, April 12, 2013 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
I'm sorry guys. You can't just decided weeks, make that months, after things have started rolling that things should be done a specific way. I'm not going to play the game according to committee, its a GAME. I don't like using guides. This is hilarious for us being a site that is a guide, but I feel if you use a guide to get through a game, then its not really a game, its a recipe. You're just repeating the pre-set planned movements, and it can't even begin to even resemble fun. You think I have a bad attitude about the game now (and I don't, not really) then just you wait and see how passive aggressive I'll get then. I have to be allowed to play it somehow! I'm sorry if I cut off Jimcloud's comment, but honestly, I felt there was a level of minutia and detail that is simply too much for us to detail, especially when there is a hell of a lot of talk about in just about every minute of every Final Fantasy game. So is there anything I fucking did right? Sorry, if I'm getting mad, but you keep finding new things to hate on. I haven't heard a word positive about anything we've done here. Also, "we don't want this to represent us, its too much like you" is a hard sentence to find much pleasure in. When I started this, I didn't get a single instruction from any you. NOT ONE. You guys basically said "go do it, your way". Because it tickled you to see BlueHighwind play FFVIII, and that's it, that's the result you get. Your displeasure is noted, but you're words come far too late. I gave you guys nothing but the clearest preview of what to expect from me (anybody remember that test video I did back in like February?), I don't think anybody should be shocked or surprised or disappointed. And I've been trying to find some middle ground with you people. I got no response on any of that, only a repeat of old points. Do you have any idea how hard it makes it to work with some of you then? | |||
The matter at hand is yes, we did know what to expect from you. This is why some users objected to the idea of you playing FF8, because we knew your personality and your feelings about FF8. But on the one hand, we were willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and on the other hand, we had no one else willing and able to begin another LP at the time.
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If it helps, I am considering hosting an LP myself, even up to the point of buying a DVD recorder so that I can record FFX or FFXII. However I've not done anything like this before, and I wouldn't know what (free) video editing software I should use to do it. But unlike ScatheMote, I'm not particularly busy at the moment. Having said that I probably won't be ready by the time the whole of Episode 5 is live (which would be 5th May if I got my maths right), but I can throw my hat in for when we do later LPs. @Bluehighwind: I'll back you to complete this project, and I'll still be happy to assist you in later episodes. | |||
Hexedmagica - Rathalos: World Tour/All Ass Sword TALK - My companions' feelings have been etched upon this body. I'll change this eternal darkness into light! Heaven and Earth! One who matches the gods! CHOUGINGA GURREN-LAGANN! 14:21, April 12, 2013 (UTC) | |||
Personally i'm fine with everything. If technical issues persist, I can easily start putting together footage for a FFII LP. | |||
Didn't want to increase tensions by making the idea of cutting the LP more appealing, but since other people have brought up their plans, I have gotten my PSP recorder working, so we could do FF9 or (if I feel like springing for a PSN card) FF7.
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Tia-Lewise - Tread lightly, she is near, under the snow. Speak gently, she can hear the daisies grow TALK - Summoner of Nyan 14:53, April 12, 2013 (UTC) | |||
IX would be lovely to cover, I can see a lot of support on that one. However, I don't think in any uncertain terms that we should discontinue VIII. The only people who have had a multitude of problems with it (as far as I've seen) are us, rather than other YT viewers. I like Blue's devotion to a game he actually doesn't like that much, not many of us would dedicate our time to something we consider crap. A few tweaks is all that's needed and we can be on our merry way ^_^ | |||
BlueHighwind Q? 14:58, April 12, 2013 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
What Drake should consider is perhaps hosting the second half of FFVIII. Since my game footage only extends as far as Disc 2 before my saved file got lost on a dead computer. (Also it kinda thematically fits me, since honestly, the game never recovers from the loss of Edea as the main antagonist and I've never stopped complaining about that.) However, that would deeply sadden me since I really did fire all cylinders at actually finishing FFVIII this time and of course, I truly doubt any of you even come close to caring about this LP and its success or failure as much as I do. | |||
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Sign-upz
- — YuanSalutActa 05:41, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
- -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 05:43, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
- - +DeadlySlashSword+ 10:35, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
- Considering that I've already recorded a video, I think that it might be a good idea to sign up. ScatheMote 19:45, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
- I'll be happy to provide my my somewhat infantile voice if you want me to. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 19:49, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
- what even is this game o uo 8bit 23:40, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
- Hexed 04:12, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
- http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/KujaFFIX/2ea674f6.png 16:37, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
- Well, I'm already in, but yeah <_<; Jimcloud 16:59, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
- I'd be willing to chip in now I have more time on my hands. Tia-Lewise 19:23, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
- I mean it's a little late to sign up but I usually am on now and have everything needed. ◄ Θάνατος ► 01:41, April 3, 2013 (UTC)
- Considering that I'm still very busy for school, the amount I'll be able to participate will be limited until May 7th or so. There's no telling though. I'll do my best for the sake of the LP :3 --FireKnight251 17:57, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
- Ohai is this still open? It is! Cool. The SirLaguna 03:43, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
- If it's still open then i wouldn't mind getting involved.The Nemesisx 13:45, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
Availability Checker
With my computer in its current state, I'm guessing that I will not be able to record anything for at least a week, I am so very sorry. I've decided on a more sane system of finding people who would want to LP, so I'll pre-schedule recordings. This is in contrast to how I've done the first two episodes, which was just begging people on the IRC to join me. I need three peoplez, first come, first serve. Oh, and consider this is a contract, so I expect you to be there, on the IRC chat, within at most 15-20 minutes (we're flexible) of the time pre-arranged.. If you don't show up, we're going without you.