Okay, so as anyone who is paying attention has noticed, despite an absolutely immense community consensus in favour of it, TA has not promoted Scathe to bcrat. His given excuse is that "We have traditionally had only one active bcrat [and] the tradition is also that our bcrats have appointed successors without a vote". Neither of these is a tradition, much less anything close to a policy. CSM and Diablo were certainly co-active, and Diablo promoting TA without any community discussion whatsoever was not received well at all, which indicates that it was not a given as far as the community is concerned.
Ultimately, the job of a bcrat is to comply with the wishes of the community when it comes to granting user rights, and there is no excuse for not doing so when the consensus for Scathe's promotion is so incredibly strong.
Okay, first TA's statement: Diablo was promoted to work alongside CSM. This occurred so there wasn't a dictatorship. Resulting events made CSM leave shortly later, but they co-existed and were intended to co-exist. We wanted another bcrat because Diablo was becoming inactive, and she promoted TA (which was not in-line with the community, and I don't believe this was taken well -- but you won't be able to tell from evidence on the wiki). Additionally: CSM and Diablo were both promoted after a consensus, and Shane doesn't count. So only TA falls into that box.
There have been two threads where consensus for promoting a new bcrat has been found, and promoting Scathe to be that bcrat, and nothing has happened in either circumstance. I will assume the first case is another case of me being the only to raise complaints to the person in question on-wiki.
It was practically agreed before the staff promotions that it would be up to the admins to decide who gets promoted. And that means a consensus from the admins, and the bcrat does not get veto power because that is not the role this wiki gives the bcrat in our democracy. I think a few people are too frightful or non-confrontational to admit this outwardly.
So here's what I want: Scathe to be bcrat. Not only should it have been done anyway, with only TA having actual power, it's basically just a dictatorship where decisions are based on the likes or dislikes of that one person.
And here's what I also want: When the community disagrees with the decision of someone on staff because they are following consensus (the desire of the community), say so on the wiki. Things will not get resolved otherwise. JBed (talk) 17:01, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
ScatheMote 2013: A Kinder, Gentler Wiki!
But in all seriousness: Uch, wikipolitics. Wikipolitics go nowhere for the same reason real politics go nowhere: people don't like to admit they're wrong when it comes to staff discussions. I sure know I don't, and there are plenty of other examples of this. Case in point: last night, four hour long argument on freenode (not in #wikia-ff, too many side conversations would make it impossible to follow). I'll post logs with permission, but basically, TA says he doesn't want to promote Scathe because aside from considering it unnecessary, he doesn't really know Scathe well enough to trust him, same reason that Diablo promoted TA back in 2011 and got this ridiculous show on the road. Fae brings up the points mentioned above. Scathe, the other admins, and I also give input every so often. Nothing changes after the discussion, except that everyone agrees to meet back, same place, same time, tomorrow. Meanwhile, some empty threats are bandied around in #wikia-ff about going to Wikia staff, and TA still doesn't give in.So, as much as I'd like to have Scathe as a bcrat, this isn't a dictatorship under TA (we are the Republic of Final Fantasy), and the whole "one bcrat at a time thing" doesn't make any sense, let's face it, the wiki isn't going to end tomorrow if Scathe isn't made ASAP.
This issue is as simple as this: There is a majority of active users that have expressed confidence in Scathe and a desire to see him as a bureaucrat. Nothing more, nothing less. TA refuses to promote him on the baseless reasons of "tradition", a tradition, as SN points out, that doesn't even exist.
I'd like to also bring out the reason TA expressed in the IRC as to why he was concerned about promoting Scathe: he said he wasn't familiar enough with him. While the fact that the current bureaucrat is not familiar with the single most active admin before the most recent promotions is worrying enough, it brings to mind the incident where TA was promoted to bureaucrat by Diablo, being one of the only feasible admins that Diablo really knew. Tell me, if Diablo had taken community input into account before promoting a bureaucrat, does anybody really think we would have TA as one right now?Now, while I am sure that everyone appreciates TA performing promotions in the wake of Diablo's absence, an active, helpful, approachable bureaucrat could help to serve as the face of the wiki when approached by outside parties such as Wikia. And while TA is nowhere near as difficult to reach as Diablo was before her departure from the Wiki, I am sure everyone would appreciate a bureaucrat that was easier to get a hold of. Moreover, the community overwhelmingly supports this decision. No voice has spoken out in opposition of Scathe as a bureaucrat, and the support is easy to see. TA says he's not familiar with the candidate and is concerned about what will happen, but is the overwhelming trust placed in him by the community at large not enough? If TA is not willing to trust the majority word of the community he speaks for, is he really fit to be the sole leader of it?
When I spoke to Scathe earlier he said we shouldn't worry about what does or doesn't happen to him, but that doesn't clear up the fact that TA has openly snubbed our support, our opinions and ultimately what we know is a beneficial promotion for the Wiki. Some may not agree but I'm of the opinion that we should have at least two active bcrats, as what with TA being absent quite a lot, if he were to leave entirely we would be without the means to promote any more mods/admins without having a good moan to Wikia, and we would lose our sole spokesperson and the go-to for Wikia grunts.TA doesn't know me at all, yet he saw fit to promote me, so why not Scathe? Scathe has been around a lot longer than me, done so much more, and the admiration the Wiki hold for him is highly noticable. I hope that TA can realise that we need this, and whether he knows Scathe or not, his support as an extra bcrat wouldn't go unnoticed. I'll be very disappointed if this whole thing is so that TA can retain a guise of power and doesn't want to share.
I wholeheartedly support Scathe for bureaucrat, and I believe that he would do a sterling job as a co-figurehead for the wiki.
However, much as some may object to it, this is ultimately TA's decision as the Wiki's current active bureaucrat. We do not need a new bureaucrat urgently, and, whilst I believe that Scathe would indeed make a perfect bureaucrat right now, TA is quite within his rights to hold off promotion until he is more familiar with Scathe. Contacting Wikia is a largely empty threat, and will in all probability not get the result you want. TA is not in violation of Wikia policies, and Wikia tend not to interfere with general wikipolitics.Furthermore, the attitude of certain users in this discussion both here and to a greater extend on IRC is disrespectful to TA in a most unhelpful manner - regardless of your view of the situation, decorum is still important to maintain.
- ^No, it isn't. It's not our fault if your prissy little feelings get hurt. Unlike your country, there's no rule or expectation here that people have a right to not be offended. Anyways, very simply, TA needs to learn to share. If not, then it's time to get Wikia involved. And finally, no, contacting Wikia is not useless, they just don't like to interfere if there isn't community support and discussion beforehand. --Shockstorm (talk) 04:58, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
- "No, it isn't" It is, if you want shouting matches with no decorum, go to 4chan. Wikis are part of the civilised part of the web, where we refute each other's arguments rather than deride them for living in a different country. It is not so much that his feelings have been hurt (Ark has feelings?) it is more that the attitude people have taken towards TA is not conducive to getting TA to do what they want. "Wikia is not useless" I'm not sure I even need to say anything. It honestly depends on which staff member is made aware of this matter, and a good number of them would just be like "You already have a BCrat, I don't need to do anything." User:R8.50Mango/Sig2 11:35, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
The role of B-crat is not simply the guy to contact when we decide to promote new staff. B-crat is the unofficial leader of the Wiki, perhaps in only a figurehead manner but they are still our leader, in a manner. If something major for the Wiki is going down like Wikia wanting to promote MM3 or Square-Enix wanting to set up a liason with us or whatever the point of that notion was, it's the B-crat's job to handle it.
TA may be around when we need him, but he ought to be around all the time familiarizing himself with our policies, userbase, and current activities, so if circumstances need a B-crat to act in the role of the Wiki's leader, he can do so with the faith of the community. That TA claims he has no idea who Scathe is when Scathe is publicly a major face of the Wiki (co-hosting MM3 and the DNC, spearheading the original LP) and a very active contributor shows he is out of touch with the community, and this incident in tandem with many past issues show that he cannot always be relied upon to represent the community's wishes in a fair manner, as he often acts obstructive before complying. It is a simple statement and not an unfair one, but this incident highlights a recurring problem of TA, that he does what he likes when he likes even if community word conflicts with his own opinion. How many of us can say with absolute confidence that if needed, they would trust TA to always act in the best interests of the community based on what the community has to say about whatever issue has come up? Because we should absolutely be able to trust the B-crat to do so, that is part of their role.
Scathe would give us the type of B-crat we would need to handle important Wiki matters and represent the community when we need representation. TA is not that B-crat.
I couldn't have said it better myself. There's naught more to add on my part. So, we must decide our course of action. TA should be informed before we decide to go over his head, that's only fair, but will we do this, and if so, when?