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Forums: Index > The Labyrinth of Time > Lack of bcrat promotion


"Instant Awesome Just Ask Nelo" Sorceror Nobody

Okay, first TA's statement: Diablo was promoted to work alongside CSM. This occurred so there wasn't a dictatorship. Resulting events made CSM leave shortly later, but they co-existed and were intended to co-exist. We wanted another bcrat because Diablo was becoming inactive, and she promoted TA (which was not in-line with the community, and I don't believe this was taken well -- but you won't be able to tell from evidence on the wiki). Additionally: CSM and Diablo were both promoted after a consensus, and Shane doesn't count. So only TA falls into that box.

There have been two threads where consensus for promoting a new bcrat has been found, and promoting Scathe to be that bcrat, and nothing has happened in either circumstance. I will assume the first case is another case of me being the only to raise complaints to the person in question on-wiki.

It was practically agreed before the staff promotions that it would be up to the admins to decide who gets promoted. And that means a consensus from the admins, and the bcrat does not get veto power because that is not the role this wiki gives the bcrat in our democracy. I think a few people are too frightful or non-confrontational to admit this outwardly.

So here's what I want: Scathe to be bcrat. Not only should it have been done anyway, with only TA having actual power, it's basically just a dictatorship where decisions are based on the likes or dislikes of that one person.

And here's what I also want: When the community disagrees with the decision of someone on staff because they are following consensus (the desire of the community), say so on the wiki. Things will not get resolved otherwise. JBed (talk) 17:01, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

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As I mentioned on IRC, take the matter up to Wikia's staff if TA is refusing to do the job Diablo trusted him to do. --Sove 19:57, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

^No, it isn't. It's not our fault if your prissy little feelings get hurt. Unlike your country, there's no rule or expectation here that people have a right to not be offended. Anyways, very simply, TA needs to learn to share. If not, then it's time to get Wikia involved. And finally, no, contacting Wikia is not useless, they just don't like to interfere if there isn't community support and discussion beforehand. --Shockstorm (talk) 04:58, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
"No, it isn't" It is, if you want shouting matches with no decorum, go to 4chan. Wikis are part of the civilised part of the web, where we refute each other's arguments rather than deride them for living in a different country. It is not so much that his feelings have been hurt (Ark has feelings?) it is more that the attitude people have taken towards TA is not conducive to getting TA to do what they want. "Wikia is not useless" I'm not sure I even need to say anything. It honestly depends on which staff member is made aware of this matter, and a good number of them would just be like "You already have a BCrat, I don't need to do anything." User:R8.50Mango/Sig2 11:35, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
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TacticAngel TALK 02:54, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
I have been informed that it is not inappropriate that I should comment on this. I appreciate the interest everyone has shown in this process, though some of the commentary and characterization of my opinion is saddening. I know I have a history of trying to do what I think is right and best for the Wiki without great concern with how it personally characterizes me. It admittedly serves me very well in my personal life, but then it is easier to be malicious to the anonymous. People have long painted me as a tyrant for enforcing such onerous and unjust policies as the pixel width limit on avatars as sort of a humorous example.

That said, my dread reign has not been one of clearing out the wiki on people who consider themselves my adversary. I have represented the wiki at Wikia sponsored events, which is a first among our bureaucrats. I certainly think having been extended an invitation back, that should say that I did at least an acceptable job too. I have contacted Wikia to try to expand our visibility and presence in places like the Community Council. I respond promptly to all matters brought to my attention, though I acknowledge that one time Wikia did contact an administrator on this wiki who hasn't logged in in months if not years, and I did not immediately get back to that. Yeah, not ideal, but placing the lion share of the blame on me for that sort of thing is a pretty silly, particularly when you can see who has logged on and when inside of 3 clicks and I am on here and IRC quite frequently. So in terms of representation, its there.

The only other bureaucratic duty I have is promoting and demoting staff. As I am big on real and perceived traditions, we do a lot more of the former, obviously. This is the second wave of staff discussions in my tenure, and in both cases, I have approved the vast majority of those suggestions. As you recall last year, we discussed EspritDuo being promoted. Ultimately I held that back, basically because I think he had only been on the wiki for a month or two, and even some of our least well-behaved community members can go months without acting out. True to my word, I reviewed Esprit 3 months later, and again during this nomination round, making sure that we discussed his well-earned candidacy. To say I don't listen in these cases simply does not play itself out. When speaking to Tidus about the Talk Template the 40k Fanon was using but wrongly accrediting, I asked that credit be given to this wiki, not to me specifically. I'm, frankly, amazed that he was able to do it, and I offered to buy him a cookie if that could somehow work out. When announced by Wikia, I asked not to be referred to as the owner of this wiki, also, so the idea that I do this for ego would seem not to apply.

So finally we come to this; as it relates to Scathe. It basically comes down to "I don't really know what to expect." You all like him, and that says a lot. Before this round of nominations, I probably would have been more likely to think of someone like Yuan if we needed another bureaucrat, based largely on tenure and personality. It also is more laudable if someone appears to not want it. Now, clearly, I would have to think differently. As I've said before, I think the job Scathe has done here is great. I like his work, but we have little contact with eachother. It is important to me that, particularly if we have two or more active bureaucrats, that we can work closely together, rather than causing problems for everyone. If you look at our history, you can find all sorts of arguments that have started over nothing. I remember people chewing me out over reformatting their personal talk template, because we have standards regarding height and width. I remember tyranny being brought up in that conversation too. A whole lot of nothing can turn into a huge deal, so it would seem to me wise to know the guy better than I do before I do that. As no one has brought up to me why we need two or more bureaucrats, the system does not appear to be broken, why would I invite that potential issue into the wiki? I know the answer for a lot of people is because people like Scathe and think he would do a good job. He seems like a good guy to me too. I actually like pretty much all the people I know and have worked with on the Wiki. You are passionate people who love the same series of games I (generally?) do. You care deeply, obviously, and some sometimes to a depth that defies reason. As crazy as that is, do you think Faethin and I could be co-bcrats? I kind of doubt it.

So I am informed by your opinions and I would expect that at some point I will act on them, but I would reject the notion that the role of a bureaucrat has been or should ever be rubber stamp. That is not wise or responsible. If you would like to push the issue, that is certainly your choice, but I stand by my rationale here.

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*hmph* *sighs*

Against the wishes of your predecessor but in the wishes of the entire community, but you care most about the opinion of the person who abuses their power? Okay, sure, whatever.

I have no respect for your decision. You're just as bad as TA is in this situation. This entire thing is about TA not acting properly, and him not having the right to decide above everyone else. If avoiding conflict is your goal then what? Sure, we've lost the most recent thing to be annoyed about, but we're in the exact same boat we were in before.

This is about avoiding a dictatorship. And the only way we can possibly avoid this without waking the dead (inactive crats) is through a forum like this. This is our only channel, and you throw it all away because you don't want conflict, and are more satisfied when the entire wiki is suppressed by a dictator?

Of course, I'm being over dramatic, but that is what it is. JBed (talk) 16:55, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Couldn't you have told us this during the nominations? We could have avoided all this. Tia-LewiseRydia - Young battle.png 17:05, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

He wants to be bcrat, he just doesn't want to become bcrat when any sort of friction is involved. JBed (talk) 17:09, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
Well...maybe when everything's calmed down. I hope previous promotions haven't caused friction like this has done. Scathe, I'll respect your decision though I'm naturally a little disappointed. I'd never try and force it upon you. Tia-LewiseRydia - Young battle.png 17:12, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
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Age has nothing to do with this. Tia-LewiseRydia - Young battle.png 17:26, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, so after a few conversations in the IRC, I'll put myself back in the running (withdraw my withdrawal?). ScatheMote 17:41, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

"Instant Awesome Just Ask Nelo" Sorceror Nobody

TA has been here a long time. You can't guarantee he'll want to stick around with us young whippersnappers forever. Tia-LewiseRydia - Young battle.png 18:12, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

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