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Fistpaladinsmall
TacticAngel TALK 01:17, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
Raylan, a Wikia Staffer and provider of content, dropped a line to me on my talk page regarding where he should direct people for Final Fantasy XIV. My initial impression is that our coverage should be similar to Final Fantasy XI which is what I have posted on my talk page, but I have asked him to check back in 7/31 as well.

What I would like to see is who is going to be playing the game, and what everyone thinks we ought to do with regards to covering the game.

Now that said, our FFXI coverage was born of a single person version of pragmatism some 6 years ago, and he is most likely not going to be playing FFXIV. Since then, I know we have picked up a handful of other users who have FFXI experience and may be primed to play and write a ton on FFXIV. The way I see it, these are some likely things to think about when making this decision.

  • Final Fantasy XI coverage was largely high level 'outside perspective, looking in,' and as there were more users, we went a little more micro, and reduced the macro. By no means did we ever get to FFXIclopedia status though.
  • There is going to be a wiki devoted solely to Final Fantasy XIV. I wonder to what extent we can or will want to compete. There are already at least two registered with Wikia, as proof.
    • Its anyone's guess if the average FFXIV fan is going to want to deal with all of the other games covered on here.
    • If it turns out they like the other coverage, you can count on, more than likely, an improvement in coverage of under-covered games, most likely FFXI.
  • If we are able to compete, this would likely mean we have incurred a massive influx of editors who are of largely or solely a Final Fantasy XIV persuasion.
    • We will probably have a lot of edit issues due to people not familiar with our policies. I expect there would be more than a few 'oops, I deleted everything but what I cared about' or numbering issues.
    • Probably wiki-drama associated with a large number of old-time users who disrespect the online games being in charge, while they are still cutting their teeth creating content.
    • This would greatly change the pseudo-democratic landscape, may necessitate a change in how we look at staff, and potentially disenfranchise older editors.

I would prefer the direction we take is similar to FFXI, because I would like to cause as little disruption to current users as possible, but this is an issue that really is larger than any one person. We certainly don't chastise people improving our coverage, so its possible that something else will happen that you or I don't specifically want, so it would be good to have an idea what tone we want to set at or before launch.

We had a discussion on how best to handle covering FFXI on this wiki, and in the end - it turns out it's the same as every other game.

  • Lists for weapons, enemies, everything else
  • Pages for important characters
  • Pages for jobs
  • Pages for enemy-types (and NMs I think)
  • Pages for abilities/spells
  • Pages for locations, with sub-locations of them covered in "Locations" sections of those pages.
  • Mentions on relevant parent pages, plus a +1 to appearances (so if we need four appearances for something, XI makes up the fourth).

We don't cover XI like FFXIclopedia does, but then we don't cover VII like an FFXIclopedia type-wiki would. FFXIclopedia makes a page for everything. We generally cover things on lists, and pride ourselves more on "recurring" pages. But no doubt a wiki dedicated just to VII would end up being far more useful to readers than the VII coverage on the wiki. Because there is a focus and therefore the wiki can be structured much better to it, navigation increased, fluff removed.

And with MMOs this is even more the case. But anyway, I think we should work on our XIV coverage here. If anyone else wants to work on other XIV wikis then fine. We can be affiliated, but I don't think FFWiki should be in-charge of it.

So in the end: We cover it here in our way, people can do whatever they like off-wiki. It's not about competition, it's about completion (of this wiki). 2.102.229.204 12:25, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

didn't realize this was here.. guess i will chime in on this page. I'll be playing XIV and will definitely help with contribution of articles for XIV, tho not as a core contributor because theres still much to do for XI. I believe the necessary coverage with not be unlike XI, which is actually pretty much everything, except we don't go into technical details and in-depth strategy unlike game-specific wikis. For what its worth this wiki is already well received by the XIV community for its existing XIV lore articles, so we should likely give more attention to that as i highly doubt game specific/strategy wikis will be covering that in as much detail. based on experience in XI, this is also the case.
as for a breakdown of the elements, i do think anon guy is more or less correct. the structure ive used in my head so far for XI and which probably applies to XIV goes something like this.
  • game title's page: covers basic gameplay, setting, story, etc like every other game.
  • expansion pages (when they come) covering expansion additions and story
  • pages for classes/jobs/spells/abilities/etc
  • pages for enemy types, but not each enemy - image should follow this rule (don't want the clusterf mess we had with a former XI gallery)
  • pages for locations - zones or whatever the technical name may be.
  • pages for important NPCs (story-related), organizations, nations (contrast with cities as zones. XI doesnt have this yet)
and i think thats about it. One thing I would like to stress the importance of, which is also something i keep in mind when approaching XI content, is that if we're going to do a looking in approach, it needs to be practical to someone who actually plays the game, much less to someone who does not - because they are the people who will actually use it. not to discredit Jim's effort, but articles like this serve no practical purpose to anyone who plays the game or not, because it is incomplete, inaccurate, and the information presented there could be better presented in a different manner that more people would benefit from. i do find that we have a habit of making lists for the sake of making them here, but this is extremely pointless for online entries to the series since the lists do not ever end and nobody will get around to updating arbitrarily made lists each time an update comes.
but back on point. yes to coverage here. we draw a line at technical gameplay details and in-depth strategy (brief mention should be fine). a focus on story and lore would also be a good direction to take, as well as being a repository for artwork, etc. It is already a lot on our hands, so a lot depends on how many XIV contributors there are. --Arciele Spira (talk) 07:22, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
Maintaining a list of enemy abilities list is about as arbitrary and hard to manage as detailing enemy abilities on the enemy pages. In other words, it's not. The lists serve as central places to manage things. All enemy abilities can be observed at once, easily compared, easily found, and (although I imagine this is less true for games that focus on enemy families) parents enemy abilities used by more than one enemy.
And then it also makes it far simpler to find information for people managing the wiki. Although as with all things, it would be better if it were complete. JBed (talk) 01:29, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
which is my point. its not useful because it is not complete. the page i mentioned was basically put together by ONE person. unlike a regular game, in an MMO (or at least in FFXI), there have been some NMs which don't ever see the light of day for months before they are fought, and by a marginal group of players who may or may not entirely report, with varying accuracy what they learn from the enemy and their ability list. Making a list is easy. Gathering that information in FFXI is not. None of this information is simply copied off an ultimania or extracted from the game. It has to be observed, documented and compiled. It places undue stress on anyone who manages such a list because it is never-ending and there are random event mobs out there who just happen to have random moves that no one else uses. I can say with certainty, that this list is no longer completeable as far as XI is concerned.
The game has too much history to pore over - going over 30,000 mobs just to complete a list that no one uses is not good for sanity. This, in fact, applies to much of FFXI's articles - it isn't hard to see why the few of us XI editors have to take breaks between each undertaking with FFXI because the scope of this game is gargantuan compared to the others in the series. For example, thus far we have chosen to limit enemy/boss articles to those that can be found in missions, but filling up those pages aren't easy, because we have never been given enemy stats. Even if you whittle down the info that you want to list to just HP, that number can only be an approximation - and whose duty is it to find accurate information? It's rarity enough that you have a contributor willing to fill in FFXI stuff who actually knows the game inside out, but even so a lot of information in FFXI has always been veiled. If you've not played the game, you won't understand this. It's easy for anyone to say 'hey we need to get this done', but as someone who is working / has worked on a project of the nature and size of XI, in the knowledge that XIV will follow closely in terms of its scale, I do know better, and I certainly don't want the same predicament to befall XIV articles. For anyone to say what we do is not hard, quite frankly I am insulted.--Arciele Spira (talk) 04:23, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
I'm a XIV player and I'll help. btw, can you remove the miqo'te face from being a preview image in this template? It doesn't look good when we browsing this page; Category:Final Fantasy XIV Legacies. Monterossa (talk) 01:14, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
Like I said on Raylan13's talk page, it seems inefficient to try to build a dead wikia wiki off the ground when there are thriving XIV wikis as is.
And after that template is used on enough pages, Wikia will recognize it as an icon and stop using it as a preview image. Unfortunately, I don't know how many pages is "enough". C A T U S E 04:29, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
Like Cat said, there's really no point in trying to revive a dead wiki when there are already enough thriving wikis about XIV. Either way, I have the game pre-ordered so I'll be playing it. --Sove 23:55, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

I just want to point out, as a long time XI player, that while the XI wiki is great as a manual or reference, it is really lacking in the story and lore department. People use it as a walkthrough more than anything. But the story, backstory, the creation and development process, reception, etc. is not relevant there while it is (or should be) here. As a side note, we still need to complete the expansions' storylines here! ToAU is incomplete as well as WotG and the current events of Seekers. Jblancosegura (talk) 15:49, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

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