Hello all,
I came across this site whilst trying to find information on Side Quests/Canvas of Prayers for LR: FFXIII.
Now I saw that some of the content was missing so I took it upon myself to add to the table listings as well as add a 'Video Guide' for said Canvas of Prayers. I did read all policies and documentation provided by Wikia in terms of what is and not allowed and I found nothing related to including video guides.
In short I added a link to 'Revenge is Sweet' a video on my YouTube channel, this got removed by a member, after a discussion with said member we came to the agreement to start a conversation about this to see what people think.
So please can you provide feedback so we can A) Update Wikia's policies and B) Possibly update the Wikia with dedicated channels providing video guides
My ideas for the video guides are;
Professional, To the point, Show the quest details , Show how to attain the materials/items/lore, Show the quest complete, Provide clear comms, possibly English and Japanese for both audiences and A 'Provided for Wikia' in the channel description or in the actual video, this will be linked to the page that has had the necessary edits.
Now, I can assure you that this is not just a form of advertising from me, my channel already gets a nice amount of views on these videos. This is in fact what triggered me to add the video guide to the Wikia, I mean I must be doing something right and all the comments I have received are positive and people are thankful.
I think this will modernise this website where video and documentation are combined and the user can select their preferred option, some like to read whereas others like to watch.
As said previously, what does everybody think of this idea? We can lock this idea to dedicated channels, which will have to follow strict deadlines with the administrators of this site. Its all open for discussion :). 86.25.79.2 11:01, March 14, 2014 (UTC)
Likeacupcake - Never are we more free, than when we are confined to the realm of dreams. TALK - 12:24, March 14, 2014 (UTC) | |||
Two major points I have here: Firstly, videos can be extremely helpful... in fluid games. Final Fantasy's style is must more static and cut-and-dry. "Turn left after the fourth boulder" is a pretty good description for most of FF, while that would be downright unhelpful for one of the Assassin's Creed games (for example). I'm not saying it would be a detriment, just saying I see no real reason to put any spectacular effort into it. Secondly, I can see this being very, very difficult to manage the quality of: Here if someone does the hard work and makes a sloppy guide, or explain things badly, a wiki gnome can come along and work his/her magic. If you have that in video... it's a lot harder to clean up. So it's either the one who makes the video gets it completely to standard, or it's a sub-par addition. I guess if someone was to take it upon themselves to manage this, someone the brass around here trusts to control the quality and organisation, not to mention we put together a mini task-force that wants to go gathering enough videos to make this an actual effort rather than a few stray videos, it can go ahead, I have no objections, just some reservations. In summary: I don't really see how it would be a benefit, QA would be difficult, and it would require a lot of oversight, but if someone wants to manage it all, then I have nothing to say against it as such. | |||
Hello likeacupcake (ace name by the way ;)),
I understand your reservations completely, yes videos are difficult to maintain and QA. The only reason I am mentioning this is because of all the positive feedback I have received on my channel regarding the Quest Guides I have provided.
I agree that the majority of FF's were 'cut-and-dry' as you stated whereas FFXIII is much more quest based which opens it up to a wider amount of requirements and achievements, it is no longer linear, a player may or may not choose to do x y z if you get what I mean.
My channel, is not a solo endeavour, we are actually 7 people with a structured business model and professional quality control of all our videos before they even get set to published. This QA involves, intros, outros, watermarks, video quality (720p minimum), clear comms. If any of these fail it gets reworked until satisfactory. We also do not beg on our videos 'Give us a like' 'Sub for more' etc, we keep it professional and to the point.
This could be a standard on a policy for if we agree to show video guides. It can also be stringent in what the video shows, for example, it must have the quest details, you must speak clear English etc which can all be put into a new policy.
In terms of policing it however, can we not have an area where members need to put their video to, describe what they want to attach it to and get it reviewed and cleared by a board member or administrator or 'trustworthy member'?
It is said that a picture can explain 1000 words so to the contrary I would imagine a video can explain so much more and giving our audiences choice in how they can search / watch information would be more beneficial than just words?
It could also be a two-way benefit, yes the videos will be on here, so that counts as traffic from here to the YT channel but it can always work the other way round, somebody searching on YT comes across a video designed for this site can then navigate here to find an answer to their question. We can add to the policy that videos must state in the description/or video itself, that it is for http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/... as well as a little quote from this website?
Just thinking outside the box is all. What do you think?
Likeacupcake - Never are we more free, than when we are confined to the realm of dreams. TALK - 14:33, March 14, 2014 (UTC) | |||
You sound like a salesman. You're forgetting that this isn't a professional organisation: We're a bunch of guys doing this because it's fun. "Modernis[ing]" the wiki isn't a huge priority for us. Sure, I can see some videos would be nice, but well, does this wiki look like it's trying that hard to keep up with the trends and look modern? I think you're missed the feel of the wiki. A side note, not really on topic; I haven't played XIII as of yet, but from what I've heard of it, it's more railroaded than the rest of the series (not that FF had much freedom or exploration to start with, but it had its degrees). Once again, I'm not opposed to the idea of videos on here, in fact I think we have a number of videos regarding Dissidia animations on here. Really, if we're going to talk about this seriously, what will probably be agreed on is that if you want to embed video tutorials or guides, you can do so in the userspace or walkthrough space. We tend to be more factual than opinionative in our mainspace. Sorry if my logic's drifting a little, been working on projects all day | |||
I will pass this forum onto the IRC, and as many of the regulars will be around this evening, I'm sure you'll have more of a response, but currently all I know about our use of videos is we prefer to have permission to use the videos beforehand; this is one of the reasons FFWiki has their own channel. As far as Fair Use goes this may have a part in it, but again, I'm going to pass this on later. Tia-Lewise
15:45, March 14, 2014 (UTC)
Thank you Tia-Lewise and likeacupcake,
I can assure you I am not a salesperson :) just passionate about my hobby. Thank you for passing this on I would like to see what others think. 86.25.79.2 16:38, March 14, 2014 (UTC)
It's an interesting idea and I think we may be able to make it work. We just need to keep a careful eye on keeping guides mainspace appropriate.
Meh, it's the weekend, I've got time to mess around with ideas. I'll try and come up with some possible guidelines. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 22:08, March 14, 2014 (UTC)
This is all good news. Looking forward to reading the guidelines.
OK, so I talked it over with a couple of the other admins, and the proposal we've put together is as follows;
- Users wishing to add video guides must have an account.
- You must get permission from the staff to add guides. I'll likely be in charge of that, and you'll only need to be approved once to add as many guides as you wish.
- Guides must follow relevant parts of the MoS.
- In particular, as I'm sure this will trip everyone up, the main content of the wiki uses third person. Guides should refer to the player as "the player", not "you".
- This also includes some general video quality standards. No camcorders, sound must be clear, don't use garish colors for subtitles, etc.
- Guides are free to use either voice commentary or subtitles, doesn't matter, although the people I talked to have said they would prefer subtitles if possible.
- We will require a copy of the videos uploaded to our official YouTube channel. This is mostly to make sure people realise it's community approved and don't accidentally go on tirades and try to delete all the guides from the wiki. Our channel's not run by a specific person, so we'll just give you the login details once you're approved.
- You are allowed to have copies on other channels.
- You are allowed to promote your channel in the copy on our channel.
If your videos already contain stuff that identifies your channel such as title cards or watermarks, that's fine.
If anyone has any suggestions/comments/questions/whatevers, go ahead. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 03:56, March 15, 2014 (UTC)
Firstly, thank you very much for putting this forward, I cannot believe how fast this has progressed. How do I get my channel verified? Do I give you then name, you check it out and let me know what needs to be improved before verification?
Also, if I do get verified,
I have no problem providing content on your official YouTube channel but from a legal point of view what does that mean in terms of my channels contract with our network in terms of monitization? Will their be third party claims on the videos I provide you because technically wouldn't it be copyright as the video will already be on my channel? I can do some digging around these questions if you wish so we know how to avoid copyright strikes etc on your channel? 86.25.79.2 09:05, March 15, 2014 (UTC)
I have embedded a guide video to the wiki before. I made two versions, one for my channel which include subs/captions to explain, and the one I used for the wiki that included none of that (and I kept unlisted since it's only purpose was for the wiki). I deemed it better that way, because the content of the page explained how to do it, and the video showed how to do it.
Although I realise that might not always be the best way to do things. Sometimes you can't tell what's going on in the video, like if you have to hold down a button or something. In which case I think minimal subs would be better than commentary.
These guides should go in the Quests section of location pages OR if the quest has its own page (ergo: a quest article) then it can go on them. Glitches articles also.
- "If your videos already contain stuff that identifies your channel such as title cards or watermarks, that's fine."
In the video we use on wiki? I think it would be better without. We don't promote users in content. We don't show file upload credits, and we don't even state finders of glitches.
As another point, when I uploaded the VII summon sequences I removed the music. If this is possible in the game, would this be preferred? I'm thinking from a fair use perspective. I assume we don't care. One of my videos on my channel was caught out for this, although admittedly I overlaid OST music :p
Also something we might want to look into is uploading OGG videos. We get the benefit of WLH (although each video shouldn't be used in mainspace in more than one place anyway) and easier for maintenance, videos can't suddenly be taken down without us knowing, keeps all files in the same namespace, and we only have to rely on internal things. JBed (talk) 17:16, March 15, 2014 (UTC)
Jbed, Some Color Mage,
Just so I am getting this correctly, this video I have here Revenge Is Sweet, for it to be accepted, I will need to do another video, strip our channels intro and outro and my 'Welcome to Erebos Gaming'? Would that be all, or is there other things needed?
Thanks ——Preceding unsigned comment was added by ErebosGaming (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~.