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{{Drake|time=04:06, April 24, 2013 (UTC)|text=[[:Category:Fandom]] has caught my eye. [[Final Fantasy Wiki:Scope]] only makes vague reference to "third-tier" notable non-canon products and how to cover them, but not what defines notability. I would like to suggest we hammer out some notability guidelines for future fan products and vape what does not fit them.
 
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==Guideline Discussion==
 
{{Drake|time=04:06, April 24, 2013 (UTC)|text=[[:Category:Fandom]] has caught my eye. [[Project:Scope]] only makes vague reference to "third-tier" notable non-canon products and how to cover them, but not what defines notability. I would like to suggest we hammer out some notability guidelines for future fan products and vape what does not fit them.
   
 
Some guidelines I would suggest are:
 
Some guidelines I would suggest are:
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This would also require searching for evidence that articles can meet these guidelines, which is only helpful because if a fan product is deemed notable, we ought to cover why - 8-Bit Theater has won awards, Dion Rogers' won a SE contest, etc).}}
 
This would also require searching for evidence that articles can meet these guidelines, which is only helpful because if a fan product is deemed notable, we ought to cover why - 8-Bit Theater has won awards, Dion Rogers' won a SE contest, etc).}}
{{User:Catuse167/Templates/Bubble|time=05:26, April 24, 2013 (UTC)|text=Yes, yes, and possibly yes? How do we define "significant"? Does it have to be a company? Does it have to have a certain Alexa ranking? Does it need Or do we just decide on a case-by-case basis, which allows things like [[Final Fantasy: Endless Nova]] to get in?}}
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{{User:Catuse167/Templates/Bubble|time=05:26, April 24, 2013 (UTC)|text=Yes, yes, and possibly yes? How do we define "significant"? Does it have to be a company? Does it have to have a certain Alexa ranking? Does it need Or do we just decide on a case-by-case basis, which allows things like "Final Fantasy: Endless Nova" to get in?}}
 
It is hard to define what is a notable third party. If something got like millions and millions of views in YouTube without being recognised by a third party, I'd say that could still be notable enough to cover. It's always a bit of a case by case thing.[[User:Keltainentoukokuu|Keltainentoukokuu]] ([[User talk:Keltainentoukokuu|talk]]) 14:00, April 24, 2013 (UTC)
 
It is hard to define what is a notable third party. If something got like millions and millions of views in YouTube without being recognised by a third party, I'd say that could still be notable enough to cover. It's always a bit of a case by case thing.[[User:Keltainentoukokuu|Keltainentoukokuu]] ([[User talk:Keltainentoukokuu|talk]]) 14:00, April 24, 2013 (UTC)
   
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All right, I'll just put myself down as agreeing with the outlines Drake's made. {{User:Jimcloud/Sig}} 21:43, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
 
All right, I'll just put myself down as agreeing with the outlines Drake's made. {{User:Jimcloud/Sig}} 21:43, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
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{{User:Catuse167/Templates/Bubble|time=21:49, May 9, 2013 (UTC)|text=I agree with using that list as a starting point, though we have a lot of trimming to do: ''pure'' reviewers with nothing beyond that can go, and so can sites that don't cover Square Enix games, such as Teamxbox and Amtix.<br/><br/>
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Seeing as we don't use projectspace to create "hubs" anywhere else (no "Project:Final Fantasy VI Coverage", for example) it seems kind of silly to do this ''just'' for fan projects. But if we do this around the wiki, it would be a pretty useful navigation tool to have, especially as Wikia Search gets less and less reliable &lt;_&lt;}}
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Agree with the first and second parts of Drake's guidelines. As for the third, I honestly don't think something like Gametrailer's poorly researched retrospective deserves a page on the wiki any more than Endless Nova (of course, Endless Nova is one of those bizarre fixtures of the wiki that I'd sorta miss in a silly way). I think anything of real worth and merit can be covered in the first two categories: if a third party created something, we should only cover it if other third parties take note. Otherwise, we'd start covering anything Final Fantasy related that any large video game site spits out, which is something I'm assuming we don't want to do. [[User:ScatheMote|<font color="Midnightblue">'''Scathe'''</font>]][[User Talk: ScatheMote|<font color="#778899">'''Mote'''</font>]] 21:59, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
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==Website Discussion==
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{{Drake|time=22:11, May 9, 2013 (UTC)|text=So, working off [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:VG_Reviews#Code this initial list], what additional websites do we define as significant third-parties, and what ones from the list can we ax for not meeting our needs for such a list (ie, they're review websites unlikely to offer news coverage of fan things).}}
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{{User:Catuse167/Templates/Bubble|time=00:15, May 16, 2013 (UTC)|text=Well, here's a very rushed and preliminary [[User:Catuse167/Acceptable Sources|list]]. I put more work into axing useless magazines (about ~1980s gaming and Xbox mostly) than finding more sources (mostly we just cite Siliconera, Kotaku, Andriasang, and Square Enix themselves on the wiki anyways).}}
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==Final Verdict==
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{{Drake|time=21:34, July 27, 2013 (UTC)|text=Okay this died but there was general consensus. So we can pass this into official policy, these are the proposed three guidelines for fandom notability and examples of current articles we cover that these guidelines would clear:
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*The fan product has been recognized or acknowledged by Square-Enix (Dion Rogers' Rinoa, katecovington)
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*The fan product has been recognized or acknowledged by notable third-party video game websites or magazines. (8-bit theater, the Spoony One, Dead Fantasy, NES/Famicom FF7)
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**To list acceptable third parties for this guideline, as adapted from the above link's list - 1Up.com, Famitsu, IGN, GameSpot, Gametrailers, Siliconera, GameSpy, Electronic Gaming Monthly, Eurogamer, Game Informer, PC Gamer, Team XBox, Official Nintendo/Playstation/XBox Magazine(s), Nintendo Power, GamePro
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*The fan product was produced directly by one of the mentioned third-party video game websites or magazines. (GameTrailers FF Retrospective)
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Note the third guideline was disputed, but I list it here for the sake of accommodating all opinions. Please vote yay or nay on each of the three guidelines passing into policy.
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The current policy derived from discussion and voting is located at [[Project:Fandom]], but voting is still ongoing.
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}}
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{{Faethin|time=00:46, July 31, 2013 (UTC)|text=Why is anybody opposing the third guideline? I believe all forms of notable content related to the series should be covered by the Wiki. Oddball works, like "<!--
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--><span class="advanced-tooltip" style="">{{#if:{{#ifeq:{{{text}}}||a|{{#ifeq:Final Fantasy and Philosophy: The Ultimate Walkthrough|Final Fantasy and Philosophy: The Ultimate Walkthrough|a}}}}|Final Fantasy and Philosophy<span style="display:none"> </span>|<nowiki/>*}}<small class="tooltip-contents"><span style="display:none">(</span>{{#ifeq:{{{tip}}}||{{{tip}}}|{{#ifeq:Final Fantasy and Philosophy: The Ultimate Walkthrough|Final Fantasy and Philosophy: The Ultimate Walkthrough|Final Fantasy and Philosophy: The Ultimate Walkthrough|Final Fantasy and Philosophy}}}}<span style="display:none">)</span></small></span><!--
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-->" or the FF Retrospective, are still media that people consume and might be moved to consult the Wiki because of.
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Since these instances are rather uncommon, instead of outright forbidding their addition to the Wiki, we could at least treat them on a case-by-case basis.}}
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==VOTING CLOSED==
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===Guideline 1===
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;Yes
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#{{User:Catuse167/Templates/sig}} 21:37, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
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#-- {{User:Some Color Mage/sig}} 23:02, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
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#[[User:ScatheMote|<span style="color:midnightblue">'''Scathe'''</span>]][[User talk:ScatheMote|<span style="color:#778899">'''Mote'''</span>]] 23:27, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
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#{{User:Jimcloud/Sig}} 15:28, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
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#— <span style="font-family:Mistral">[[User:Yuanchosaan|<span style="color:skyblue">Yuan</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Yuanchosaan|<span style="color:#00BFFF">Salut</span>]]</sup></span> 11:48, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
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#{{User: SidVI/Sig3}} 15:38, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
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#'''[[User:Tia-Lewise|<span style="color:#FF69B4">Tia-</span>]][[User talk:Tia-Lewise|<span style="color:#9932CC">Lew</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Tia-Lewise|<span style="color:#4B0082">ise</span>]]'''[[File:Rydia - Young battle.png|15px|link=Special:Editcount/Tia-Lewise]] 20:25, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
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;No
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===Guideline 2===
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;Yes
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#{{User:Catuse167/Templates/sig}} 21:37, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
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#{{User:BlueHighwind/Sig}} 22:55, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
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#-- {{User:Some Color Mage/sig}} 23:02, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
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#[[User:ScatheMote|<span style="color:midnightblue">'''Scathe'''</span>]][[User talk:ScatheMote|<span style="color:#778899">'''Mote'''</span>]] 23:27, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
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#{{User:Jimcloud/Sig}} 15:28, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
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#{{SilverCrono/Sig}} 21:35, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
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#— <span style="font-family:Mistral">[[User:Yuanchosaan|<span style="color:skyblue">Yuan</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Yuanchosaan|<span style="color:#00BFFF">Salut</span>]]</sup></span> 11:48, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
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#{{User: SidVI/Sig3}} 15:38, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
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#'''[[User:Tia-Lewise|<span style="color:#FF69B4">Tia-</span>]][[User talk:Tia-Lewise|<span style="color:#9932CC">Lew</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Tia-Lewise|<span style="color:#4B0082">ise</span>]]'''[[File:Rydia - Young battle.png|15px|link=Special:Editcount/Tia-Lewise]] 20:25, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
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;No
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===Guideline 3===
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;Yes
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#[[User:Jblancosegura|Jblancosegura]] ([[User talk:Jblancosegura|talk]]) 14:13, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
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;No
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#{{User:Catuse167/Templates/sig}} 21:37, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
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#-- {{User:Some Color Mage/sig}} 23:02, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
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#[[User:ScatheMote|<span style="color:midnightblue">'''Scathe'''</span>]][[User talk:ScatheMote|<span style="color:#778899">'''Mote'''</span>]] 23:27, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
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#— <span style="font-family:Mistral">[[User:Yuanchosaan|<span style="color:skyblue">Yuan</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Yuanchosaan|<span style="color:#00BFFF">Salut</span>]]</sup></span> 11:48, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
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==Phase 2 - Housecleaning==
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{{Drake|time=00:13, July 30, 2013 (UTC)|text=With the current state of policy, the following items are currently endangered. I will put up deletion notices so anyone who wants to save them can do so.
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*Final Fan-tasy Real
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*Final Fantasy A+
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*Final Fantasy and Philosophy: The Ultimate Walkthrough
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*Final Fantasy: Endless Nova
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*Guarvail- Final Fantasy Heavy Metal Arrange Album
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*Sega Fantasy VI"
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*The Final Fantasy Retrospective
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*Vinyl Fantasy 7
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*Zodiac Brave
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}}
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I don't remember what magazine it was, but it was either GamePro, GameInformer, or EGM that actually introduced me to FF Compendium, listing it as an exemplary FF website in an issue of their magazine. It was probably sometime in 2005 or 2006, so that would fall under notability guideline 2. However, if my word isn't good enough, that's fine, because I don't think the wiki should cover any fandom. Additionally, I think GamePro should be added to the list of notable magazines. --[[Special:Contributions/107.218.180.38|107.218.180.38]] 20:45, July 31, 2013 (UTC)
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:That'll do, thank you. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 20:50, July 31, 2013 (UTC)
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{{Drake|time=13:46, August 6, 2013 (UTC)|text=Still this housecleaning to do, next sunday articles that haven't had notability established will be deleted.
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UPDATE Monday August 12th - This coming Friday I will delete these articles.}}

Latest revision as of 01:53, 13 September 2021

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Forums: Index > Rin's Travel Agency > Archive > Defining Fandom Notability



Guideline Discussion[]

FFVI Terra Branford Menu iOS
FFVII Cait Sith Battle

It is hard to define what is a notable third party. If something got like millions and millions of views in YouTube without being recognised by a third party, I'd say that could still be notable enough to cover. It's always a bit of a case by case thing.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 14:00, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

I'd like the official Final Fantasy Superfan contest to have an article and to cover the winner. I don't really care to make it myself though...well, maybe I will make it myself one day!Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 14:02, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

FFII menu ricard
Lulu-render-ffx
FFIV-amano rydiachild
"Instant Awesome Just Ask Nelo" Sorceror Nobody
FFVI Terra Branford Menu iOS
FFVI Terra Branford Menu iOS

I agree with the first guideline entirely, and won't bother commenting on the axed third guideline. The second... I'm not wholly against it, nor for. My concern is - like you stated - its our widest guideline, and we'll be putting in a lot of content that isn't strictly... hmm, how do I put this? I know what Siliconera is and read it myself, but is it worth a page on the FFwiki for its occasional posts with FF content? And what would the article say, other than pointing the user to the website, or lifting its content? If we can make it work, then fine, let's do it, but I think it'd require quite a bit of policing. - Paramina (talk) 20:19, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

EDIT: Basically what I'm saying is I'm skeptical of any fandom content on the wiki, tbh, unless it's been recognised by Square or is something like 8bit Theatre. - Paramina (talk) 20:27, May 3, 2013 (UTC)
I just remembered this- Bulbapedia have a Project Fandom area of their wiki- http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bulbapedia:Project_Fandom - I don't know if we'd like to dedicate any time to something like this, but I'm just throwing it out there as a possible suggestion if we want to be rather loose as to what we cover. Tia-LewiseRydia - Young battle 18:57, May 4, 2013 (UTC)
A possibility, but then the Project would still need guidelines to go by. Drake Clawfang (talk) 19:04, May 4, 2013 (UTC)
It sounds like what we're doing already, just given a name. Our project fandom is Project {{fanmade}}. Unless I'm missing something, what changes would there be? JBed (talk) 19:08, May 4, 2013 (UTC)
I suppose we'd just cover more, and in more detail, and lump it together in a collapsible like we do with general FF games. Tia-LewiseRydia - Young battle 19:24, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

All right, I'll just put myself down as agreeing with the outlines Drake's made. Jimcloud 21:43, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

FFVII Cait Sith Battle

Agree with the first and second parts of Drake's guidelines. As for the third, I honestly don't think something like Gametrailer's poorly researched retrospective deserves a page on the wiki any more than Endless Nova (of course, Endless Nova is one of those bizarre fixtures of the wiki that I'd sorta miss in a silly way). I think anything of real worth and merit can be covered in the first two categories: if a third party created something, we should only cover it if other third parties take note. Otherwise, we'd start covering anything Final Fantasy related that any large video game site spits out, which is something I'm assuming we don't want to do. ScatheMote 21:59, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Website Discussion[]

FFVI Terra Branford Menu iOS
FFVII Cait Sith Battle

Final Verdict[]

FFVI Terra Branford Menu iOS

VOTING CLOSED[]

Guideline 1[]

Yes
  1. C A T U S E 21:37, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
  2. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 23:02, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
  3. ScatheMote 23:27, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
  4. Jimcloud 15:28, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
  5. YuanSalut 11:48, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
  6. SidVI 15:38, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
  7. Tia-LewiseRydia - Young battle 20:25, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
No

Guideline 2[]

Yes
  1. C A T U S E 21:37, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
  2. --BlueHighwind 22:55, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
  3. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 23:02, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
  4. ScatheMote 23:27, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
  5. Jimcloud 15:28, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
  6. ShirubaKurono Dissicon ff13 Lig3 21:35, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
  7. YuanSalut 11:48, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
  8. SidVI 15:38, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
  9. Tia-LewiseRydia - Young battle 20:25, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
No

Guideline 3[]

Yes
  1. Jblancosegura (talk) 14:13, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
No
  1. C A T U S E 21:37, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
  2. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 23:02, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
  3. ScatheMote 23:27, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
  4. YuanSalut 11:48, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

Phase 2 - Housecleaning[]

FFVI Terra Branford Menu iOS

I don't remember what magazine it was, but it was either GamePro, GameInformer, or EGM that actually introduced me to FF Compendium, listing it as an exemplary FF website in an issue of their magazine. It was probably sometime in 2005 or 2006, so that would fall under notability guideline 2. However, if my word isn't good enough, that's fine, because I don't think the wiki should cover any fandom. Additionally, I think GamePro should be added to the list of notable magazines. --107.218.180.38 20:45, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

That'll do, thank you. Drake Clawfang (talk) 20:50, July 31, 2013 (UTC)
FFVI Terra Branford Menu iOS