Forum:Create a new fandom namespace

Forums: Index > Rin's Travel Agency > Archive > Create a new fandom namespace

I was in the DNC (the then "Temp DNC") about how I dislike project space being used for arenas, where users amass hundreds of project space edits for typing #~~~~. We do have injustices in other places, with user's amassing user edits for sandbox works intended to help the wiki, while others make frequent edits to glamourise their userpage; and we have the forums where people contribute in discussions to improve the wiki, while others post fan-drivel and write... stuff.

But this one's a bit larger. Writing a Naming Policy page = one vote in the DNC.

Of course, the only other namespace the DNC could go in is forum space, but that would suck, and I still disagree.

Long story short, a "fandom" namespace was suggested. We would move the DNC here, the Fanart page, and we would create other future tournaments here such as potential future Magicite Madness tournaments (lol, but who would want to host it?), and Besterest and Lamest thing evars if we ever decide to them again. And just official fan projects as opposed to policy and official wiki pages.

I'm sure a lot of people don't see it as a problem*(doesn't mean it isn't, and just because we've used project space this way for ten years doesn't mean it's how it should be used, walkthroughs used to be in mainspace until walkthrough space came to be), but I see it as a mighty resolution that doesn't cause that much trouble, sanely splits project space into two, and will stop me complaining. And you that last one there seals the deal.*(Disclaimer: I will only stop complaining about the DNC edits being project space edits, I will still complain about everything else) 79.69.203.93 13:26, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, what with the Sanctuary and Blackjack being near-dead, Forumspace is mostly useful. (Of course, this assumes you consider the Dollet Hotel useful -- I do anyhow). I'm trying to figure out what exactly you mean by 'fan-drivel' BTW.

Anyways, the only problems are that that's a lot of pages to move, and it breaks Bookmarks, so logically we should leave redirects behind. Cat 13:54, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

Rin's is far more dominant than before, that's true.... but that doesn't really matter. Back in the day forums had a lot of "fan-drivel" in the form of random forum topics like why character's are good.

Not that many pages will have to be moved. Project:DNC > Fandom:DNC (also move subpages, also move talk pages).

No problem keeping redirects. 79.69.203.93 14:02, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

No. We don't need a fandom space whatsoever. You may complain it's lacking in organization, but the User, Project, Walkthrough and Forum space are more than enough for us to host fandom projects. Project space is legit to be used for community-consented fan projects. We have article names and categories and links and those tools allow us to shape our project space however we want.

Your complaints of users using the wiki with a focus for leisure and communication more than for mainspace work are old and used. There will always be wiki-princesses and not-as-productive wiki-fauna. Having a distinct space will not change this anywhere, and will probably further support that approach to the website. I oppose that. However, I have to make clear that this doesn't mean I don't support fandom on the wiki: I don't support fandom as the "purpose" of the wiki.

You also base your argument on the fact that edit counts do matter as much as contributions, which is not true, and I can use your own example of "Writing a Naming Policy page = one vote in the DNC." to counter it. Contributions are completely transparent while edits are the simplest incremental count one can design. We don't need a new space to discern the situation of the example. - Henry acores ^ 17:33, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

I also don't believe that edit counts really mean anything. But I believe that contributions to a certain cause should be in an apt place. That said, linking involves many namespaces but for one cause. Blegh, just ignore my edit count reasoning.

I do understand that wiki-official fandom projects make some sense in that space, since it is official. But for me it seems odd and completely out of place when considering that project space is really for policy, and official wiki-business. A place to vote that is not designed to aid the wiki but be its own thing on its own feels out of place.

"... the User, Project, Walkthrough and Forum space are more than enough for us to host fandom projects."

And that is exactly why it would be beneficial. If we have four different namespaces that we could possibly fit these kind of projects into, doesn't it make more sense to have one, dedicated place? 79.69.192.232 17:55, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

It would be the same. The User, Project, Walkthrough and Forum space (and Blog, the dark horse) allude to the type of fandom hosted, when used for that purpose. What seems to be the problem is that we have several piles of dirty laundry all over the place and the solution of creating a new Fandom space isn't any different than grabbing all that dirty laundry and either stack it on a chair or stuff it into a closet. It's the same crap. The only difference is the smell.

This all seems to be an attempt at finding a solution to remove the DNC from Project space. Even if we created a Fandom space, the DNC should still be at the Project space. Face it, it has undeniable importance for the community behind the website. There's no strong reason to remove from project space, specially after taking months to devise a brand new management of the project.

Another jab at the voting example is Project:Votes for Featured Articles. Is this not legit for project space because it has votes? [[Project:By the fans and for the fans|Is this fan-produced content]]? - Henry acores ^ 18:21, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to agree with Henry on this one. While I do think that something like this would be a good idea for certain things, I don't feel that creating a fandom space is the best thing to do for the Wiki. There are two big reasons for this, with some littler reasons spaced in between.

First of all, organization. If we're going to create a space like this, then we as a Wiki will be responsible for its upkeep and appearance. What kind of organization would it have? Would it have a main page with links to certain relevant starting pages? Would it be organized like the Forum pages? Would we make categories for easy perusal of a presumably massive fandom section? Fandom pages wouldn't necessarily go stale in the same way Forum pages would, so that doesn't seem reasonable. If you can't navigate through these proposed fandom pages at will without knowing exactly what you're looking for, then that's kind of a problem, wouldn't you say?

On that same subject, what would and wouldn't be okay for this fandomspace? Would anyone be able to make anything in this space? No supervision? It would kind of reflect poorly on us to let people go nuts and leave husks of pages on proper namespace. What kind of guidelines would it have? This is tricky business. Are you letting anyone from the most seasoned editor to someone making their very first edit have free roam of a namespace? I'm a little worried. On the whole, it would just lead to a whole, whole lot of unnecessary busywork moderating fandomspace that I'm sure nobody would like to see in the recent changes.

Now, on the second issue of mine. The "official" and "fanon" parts of our Wiki stand eternally perched on a very precarious set of scales. Letting it tip too far to either side would be bad. Now, what you're proposing looks relatively harmless -- you just want to take one place and put anything that isn't official wiki business in it, I imagine. However, what this will also do is consolidate the fanon into one space and legitimize it. It'll have its own place. On its own, that's only slightly worrying, but I do fear for the future of the wiki if ever such a space were to grow in prominence to become more important than our official space. Keeping the garden divided keeps the plants from running amok, if you will.

On the whole, I'm against it. Even if you do disagree with everything above that I have presented for one reason or another, it will be a ludicrous amount of work simply moving all relevant fandom, categorizing them into various types, organizing them to allow access, and that's before deciding policies. It's an immense task you propose, and I'm not even certain it's a task in the best interests of the Wiki. That's all I have to say on the matter. Sorry for the wall of text >_> Jim clo ud 21:35, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

You touched on organisation: It would work like the Help namespace does. It doesn't actually have an index (that I know of), but it will be linked to as if it were any other part of the wiki. The main change would simply be the namespace. There would likely be other categorical changes-- Returners' Conclave will likely be formatted as to give a section dedicated to it, and the homepage might gain a catalogue, as might navigation.

I suppose one of the fatal flaws with this idea is how it legitimises fanstuff. I mean, initially the idea was just to turn the fan-projects we currently and shift them into a comfy namespace. The "wiki" still has control over them, and the creation is still consensus-driven. But then it would also seem like an apt place for user tournaments, which I wouldn't really agree with. And yeah, it would sorta put more emphasis on fan-stuff, which I wouldn't want. A small positive would be putting more of a spotlight on existing projects like Fanart.

My mind is changed. I actually don't think it would be such a good idea now. 79.69.214.242 21:59, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Pointless and counter-productive busywork, we have the Fandom category to cover important and notable fanworks that exist in the mainspace as they ought to, and Forum and Userspace can be used to host content our own memberbase is producing. A Fandom category would only encourage greater focus on personal projects and Wiki-princess-ing, which is not our purpose nor our goal. Doreiku Kuroofangu 21:42, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

There is also a possibility of creating a new Wiki: Final Fantasy Fandom Wiki. For example, I try my best at maintaining Final Fantasy FanGames Wiki, and I do it not only I love Final Fantasy series, but there are some great projects completed (Final Fantasy Blackmoon Prophecy for example) or are still on-going (for example Final Fantasy Essence), and possibly their pages might have been deleted even though they're complete, contain many allusions to the series, ot else. Also, there are still some pages here on the Wiki that are fandom, and yet the adminitration allows them to be (Final Fantasy: Endless Nova, for example).—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) 21:51, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

That doesn't solve the issue for the DNC, though. It's one of our most popular pages, if not the most popular. Moving it to another wiki isn't something we want. — Yuan^Salut_Acta 02:12, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

I really don't have much to say other than I fail to see the point in adding another namespace just for this kind of stuff. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 04:18, April 12, 2012 (UTC)