Forum:Blogspace begone!

Forums: Index > The Labyrinth of Time > Blogspace begone!

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Please sign here if you want your blog temporarily restored Faethin^{te audio} 20:05, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Edit 19:17, June 30, 2010 (UTC): The struck sigs indicate that the user's blog has been already restored. Faethin^{te audio}

• Exdeath64 02:38, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
• Zeypher 15:08, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
• Jeppo (Talk | contribs) (Just this one) 21:15, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
• FaythOfFenrir 23:20, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
• Acrum92 23:32, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
• Faethin^{te audio} 23:54, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

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		FëasindëTalk "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." 04:33, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
		joeyaa from Wikia told me that we can get rid of blogspace. If you're wondering why I'm all for killing blogspace, you haven't been paying attention. My main beef is that some users seem unable to tell the difference between facebook and their blogspace at the Final Fantasy Wiki. Also, there are too many users whose comments may very well suit YouTube but hardly do so here. So I propose the deletion of blogspace from the Wiki.

I will admit they are stupid, but they are completely optional, nobody is MAKING you read them. And it's not like they are actually hurting anything. I see no reason to remove them, if you dislike them, simply ignore them. Exdeath64 05:30, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

If you can take the time to find all of those blogs and link to them, you must not have very much of a life outside of Wikia; Heck, if you take the time to contact the STF, you brely have a life at all. Just my opinion though. A.J. two ^{(Smashboards)} 12:32, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

We've already discussed this before. In that earlier discussion, we pointed out blogs were simply another forum. We have the Blackjack for all that, and those are blocked from the Recent Changes. We were going to delete all the blogs, but people simply failed to contact Wikia and we forgot about it.

@A.J.: Fae has a girlfriend and a job. Just saying. ScatheMote 13:17, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Well okay then, I didn't know that (about both things). Maybe it should get removed or maybe it shouldn't (I still say no), but if you want gone so bad, then you have to figure out how to remove it completely from the wiki yourselves, or go and ask the staff on central to get rid of it for you. 14:19, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

		Jeppo TALK - 17:19, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
		Some blogs are actually pretty good. ...but I'm sitting on the fence. One question, though. If you get rid of all blogs, would that mean all previously created blogs would be lost forever?

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		FëasindëTalk "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." 20:23, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
		Scathe linked to the pertinent link. This matter has been discussed before. Blogspace is nothing more than funky forumspace. If we did proceed with baleeting blogspace everyone would be more than welcome to move their stuff into userspace or into a pertinent forum thread. @AJ: that you are incompetent and would take too long in finding stupid blogposts (with what the Recent blog posts option on the toolbar to the left and the very abundance of stupid blogposts) does not mean that I lack a life. You should think twice before posting.

		A.J. two (The Flashlight) - "Always Avoid Alliteration" TALK - "When life gives you cherries, make a bomb." 20:37, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
		Yeah, I realized it after I had posted it. Thing is, it's still in the history even if it get erased. I am just a stupid kid, but that's just everyone else's opinion. As for the blogs, do teh staff on Central have to remove it themselve, or do the admins now have the power to remove since they've gotten the go-ahead (Meaning, the admins can now remove it like the Central Staff can)?

Er, nobody has yet to give a reason to kill these things aside from the fact that they are "Stupid". Are they actually HURTING anything? I mean if they where being used to attack other users or where cluttering up the mainspace I would support them being removed, but there appears to be none of that. And from what I can see, a few users just dislike dealing with the stupidity of certain blogs, if you dislike said blogs, simply ignore them. I personally enjoy the use of mine (occasionally, anyone on here will tell you Finals are a bitch and they eat a lot of time) and would rather dislike it if the blog system was to simply dissipate because a few users can't simply ignore the ones they do not like. Exdeath64 23:37, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

		Moocowisi - Everybody should play Gitaroo Man! TALK - Born to be Bone 23:51, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
		I think people want to get rid of it because it clogs the recent changes and encourages off topic discussion, which is why The Waystone was eliminated. I don't really care what happens to them, though; I hardly ever look at them.

		Yuan 翠珊 — 01:08, June 7, 2010 (UTC) "He wants to write a love song / An anthem of forgiving / A manual for living with defeat"
		Admins are already able to delete blog posts and comments. Feavyre is talking about moving the feature entirely - ie, preventing them from being created in the first place.

		Adonzo - I don't claim to have a degree in doctorology TALK - 01:23, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
		While I can't say I support removing them entirely, they could certainly use some moderation. Although that brings up the issue of someone actually being willing to do so - I'm not even sure the forums here are moderated, and if so they seem to have a pretty loose leash.

		Yuan 翠珊 — 01:59, June 7, 2010 (UTC) "He wants to write a love song / An anthem of forgiving / A manual for living with defeat"
		We used to have forum moderators, but they didn't have any extra powers, and I don't think they did much in terms of moderating. The admins here can delete threads when needed and block people, but that hardly ever happens, particularly since the deletion of the Waystone.

User:A.J. two/Userbox

		Werefang - "Curiosity may have killed the cat; but I'm no cat, am I?" TALK - 02:03, June 7, 2010 (UTC)- Abyss
		The largest difference of opinion seems to be perspective. Those against the blogs are claiming that afew good posts don't merit the feature as a whole; meanwhile, those for claim that a few bad posts don't merit the dissolution of the feature. As for me, while I can see merit in both sides, I tend to agree with Fae: everything I've seen in blogs is something that would have been in the user space before. Identifying these as "blogs" lends them some sort of greater officiality or relevance that they truly just lack. So while yes they don't hurt anyone, have you ever encountered someone worse off for electing to have an appendix safely removed.

		Yuan 翠珊 — 02:27, June 7, 2010 (UTC) "He wants to write a love song / An anthem of forgiving / A manual for living with defeat"
		The thread was made to notify the community of an impending change, thus allowing people to chime in with their opinions, and to hopefully avoid the oncoming flood of "Hey, why can't I do X anymore?" There have been a lot of complaints before about how the staff just hand down judgements without asking the community, which is something we don't want.

		A.J. two (The Flashlight) - "Always Avoid Alliteration" TALK - "When life gives you cherries, make a bomb." 02:46, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
		You already asked the community once, and the majority agreed to get rid of blogs. What I'm saying is, if the community agrees with the admins, why do I still see the Blog button on anybody's user page? I think blogs are a good thing, but I won't be sad to see them go. It's like an aquaintance; you may or may not like them, but either waym you won't be too sad if they leave.

		A.J. two (The Flashlight) - "Always Avoid Alliteration" TALK - "When life gives you cherries, make a bomb." 03:04, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
		But they have had almost an entire year to do it.

		DrakeyC - Crossing the distant night...Wandering the desert sea...The gods' voices are mirages... TALK - {{{time}}}
		Delete them, most of the users who maintain these blogs rarely use them to say anything intelligent, and there is nothing stopping people who feel the need to keep us up to date on their lives from using their normal userpages. Too many people (they know who they are) treat this like some sort of social networking fansite than a Wiki. This would be a good step away from the former and towards the latter.

Some Color Mage / Talk Contribs / / 06:55, June 7, 2010 (UTC) Blogs must die! Delete. Jeppo, if you can think of a good blog not written by you, I may reconsider. EDIT 07:29, June 7, 2010 (UTC): After seeing this, I have decided to become neutral on the topic.

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		Henryacores - "É que esta noite vou lançar ao mar/A bruma que houver em mim./Vou beber e cantar este luar/vou dançar até ao fim." TALK - 10:38, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
		Delete. They're useless. Until they existed everyone already used their userspace, so they're nothing but redundant and clogging.

User:A.J. two/Userbox

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		Sorceror Nobody – A hated enemy of Cocoon Talk · Flan's Elbow Colosseum · MSPA Wiki · 13:28, June 7, 2010 (UTC) A fal'Cie? You mean me? Perish the thought... I am much more than much more than that!
		Just chipping in to reiterate my main point from the original discussion, which is that since the majority opinion towards blogs seems to be <Cloud>"Not interested..."</Cloud>, the fact that it seems to be impossible to remove blog posts from the RC means that we'd be better off without blogs altogether. Especially since this is a Wiki, whose primary purpose is not social networking. For more detail, read my posts in the original discussion. On the other hand, among the piles of blogotrash one can dredge out a few rather good blogs. If complete removal of blogs also kills these, then we should not be so hasty to push the big delete button in the sky. We should ensure that ample warning is given for people to move anything they want to retain into userspace. It could be a problem for users on wikibreak at the time of announcement, but the precise logistics can be worked out later, right? Category: Slight shift in my opinion

		HarpieSiren - "There's not a thing I don't cherish!" TALK - {{{time}}} - It's not heavy. It's... a memento
		Delete them, they're a distracting waste of space. There is a time and a place for pointless blogs, a wiki about the Final Fantasy series is not that place. Places like Livejournal.com exist for a reason.

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		SilverCrono — 14:46, June 7, 2010 (UTC) "Holy f*cking a** crackers!!"
		Excuse me, continuing a conversation... A.J.- The admins don't just do what they want and then listen to the Peanut Gallery; this isn't a dictatorship. Admins doing things like that would start a flame war consisting solely of attacks such as Man 1: Hey! I liked blogs! I wanted to keep them! Man 2: Shut up! The admins are admins, they do what they want! Man 1: Hey, that's not fair! See?

		8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 15:10, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
		I really have nothing against the blogs. They do not take up much space on the RC at all; all blog comments are compiled into a single RC entry that can be expanded, like the history of a single page. I think what makes blogs pointless as a whole is that you can just use userspace for the same purpose. Leave comments on the talkpage... and yeah. That way people would be more dissuaded from creating blogs with literally one line of text on them. Make a journal collection on userspace or something, not an infestation pit of mass unrelated blogs. I would be happy to help move entries on blogspace to userspace for large entries such as Jeppo's.

I don't use them, but I don't see why that space has to go. Probably make some sort of restriction, if that's even possible. ^BLUER一番 15:17, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

		SSFF6B - "DISSIDIA 012 GET!" TALK - Come check out the Dissidia 012 Character Animations!
		Delete. These things are interfering with mainspace edits (in terms of recent edits), and as a result, they are hiding vandalism on the wiki. Besides, 99.99% of the time, the blogs are used for something random and pointless (Jeppo's are the other .01%) that SHOULD be use for Twitter. I'm sick of seeing posts like this, this, and this.

		Shadow Tonberry - "The sly eagle doesn't kill at whim." TALK - {{{time}}}
		They aren't all useless, but the blogs that are useful are overshadowed by the pointless ones. Instead,there should be a restriction so that the absoulutely pointless blogs would be removed, if it can be done.

		Paramina - "Oh please, we both know I'm a phenomenal dancer." TALK - {{{time}}}
		My two cents: I've used the blog feature twice, but it's nothing I'll miss. When I wrote my Sazh chat, I was admittedly confused as to where to put it: Forum? Userspace? Blogspace? I'd be happy to move it when Blogspaces are deleted; the wiki has enough space as it is for personal things. There is nothing I detest more than checking RC and it being flooded by "whoz da seksi?" forum posts and comments. And it's indicative of how far out of control this thing has gotten that these inane posts are more often than not the "page with the most editors in the last 3 days." It makes me lose faith in the people here/the education system/humanity.

		Deadlyslashsword - +You want me to go out there - dressed like this?+ TALK - 01:00, June 8, 2010 (UTC) - Are you mad?!
		Delete, because there is not a feasible use for them that can't be accomplished using the userspace or the forums.

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		NëA TRANSMIT MESSAGE01:31, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
		Kill it with fire. Because this is a website documenting information about Final Fantasy series. Not some kind of soul market/dear diary~/twitter/facebook/myspace. We have blogspot/livejournal for this kind of stuff. And also because long-ass blog titles about AAAAA and who is hotter in the recent changes hurts my eyes. Add a few more keystrokes.

		Sorceror Nobody – The supreme nonentity Talk · Flan's Elbow Colosseum · MSPA Wiki · 10:41, June 8, 2010 (UTC) "I can detect matter down to one atom in a vacuum the size of the moon, and apparently, this guy doesn't exist" -- Foaly
		I just want to clarify that I'm not strictly speaking entirely opposed to blogs, but I do think that they're thoroughly unnecessary given Forumspace and Userspace. As such, I'm sort of passively rather than actively against them, if you know what I mean. "Against, but with neutral leanings", perhaps. Category: Clarification

		A.J. two (The Flashlight) - "Always Avoid Alliteration" TALK - "When life gives you cherries, make a bomb." 13:35, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
		@Silver: They already did this once, and they voted to get rid of them. They didn't have to start a new discussion and delay the inevitable; they could have just done what was agreed on six months ago and be done with it. If the new users (including me and you) got angry, then there's nothing that can be said, because it was already decided upon should have been done before we even joined the Wiki (EDIT: rewording for clarification). That's what I've been saying, and I know that you will still tear this post apart, because that's what blog-haters do.

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		SilverCrono — 14:36, June 8, 2010 (UTC) "Now, give us some calls, or I'll shoot the puppy!"
		Thank you for clarifying your post. Now I understand your point of view, and it makes considerable more sense now. But, just because I don't like blogs doesn't mean I tear posts apart; I was just doing that earlier because you were just spitting out stupid things. This actually makes sense. Just because I am against blogs doesn't make me a troll, and it doesn't to anybody else either. Hating blogs is a point of view, not a state of mind.

		A.J. two (The Flashlight) - "Always Avoid Alliteration" TALK - "When life gives you cherries, make a bomb." 14:48, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
		Okay, and I see your point of view as well (Well, not your point of view, but why you kept picking on my posts). But <off-topic>how did we get to fighting through the Forum?</off-topic>

		Judge Balthier - Hamshanks! TALK - 19:27, June 8, 2010 (UTC) "Well, at least your sword is to the point."
		I think everyone of you people are making a big deal out of nothing. Honestly, is it really that annoying for you to have to delete? If it's that bothersome, don't read it. Also, the blogs only take up one spot. Once again making a big deal out of nothing. Srsly. "This is the Final Fantasy Wiki(Srs bsnss) anything that doesn't relate to Final Fantasy should be removed". If that's the case you should remove all the small things that are in our userpages and talk pages. Then we would be like Wikipedians....douchefaces

		Armageddon11 - Sind Sie das Essen? Nein, wir sind der Jäger! TALK - 20:26, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
		In my opinion, the good blogs that get lots of constructive comments outweigh the subpar blogs that get trolled. We should just have tighter restrictions on blogs. The admins that complain should be made the ones to enforce them :P

		Exdeath64 - Has decided that certain people need to lighten up and focus on changing that which is important rather then something which harms nothing...Actually, that probably could apply to a lot of American politics... TALK - {{time=Exdeath64 19:25, 15 February 2009 (UTC)}}
		Thanks for the reference! And if anyone cares, I am essentially saying "Screw This" and will either post bloglike entries on my userpage, or simply use the Mother wiki for it, has the Mother wiki admin, I can assure you all that the blog system will remain intact over there. If you want, feel free to use the feature even if you are not a regular editor. You can always use the shoutbox to advertise your blog posts, or simply post them on your talk pages or something...Or if you are feeling slighted and REALLY want to piss off Fae, just stick them in the forums! (Kidding, kidding.)

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		SilverCrono — 05:35, June 9, 2010 (UTC) "If you have noticed this notice you will have noticed that this notice is not worth noticing."
		so... The blogs are gone now? ...For good?

		Yuan 翠珊 — 06:44, June 9, 2010 (UTC) "He wants to write a love song / An anthem of forgiving / A manual for living with defeat"
		For the foreseeable future. Wiki consensus is not forever. If anyone would like to retrieve blog material, please leave a message on my talk page.

		A.J. two (The Flashlight) - "Always Avoid Alliteration" TALK - "When life gives you cherries, make a bomb." 14:27, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
		See, what did I tell you? It was obvious that they were going to get removed, since the majority of the people from last time voted against it, and the majority of that majority came back to vote against them a second time. Like I've been saying, there was no need to create this Forum when it was obvious what the outcome was going to be. You could tell that when everybody was going up against them on RoopdeeRoo's blog, it was obvious what was going to happen before this Forum was even concieved/created.

		Sorceror Nobody – The supreme nonentity Talk · Flan's Elbow Colosseum · MSPA Wiki · 15:10, June 9, 2010 (UTC) "I can detect matter down to one atom in a vacuum the size of the moon, and apparently, this guy doesn't exist" -- Foaly
		Okay, now this I do not agree with. Sure, I may not have been particularly pro-blogs. I never used them myself, and only actually even viewed them a few times, but this is, in my opinion, unacceptable. I seem to recall using the exact sentence "We should ensure that ample warning is given for people to move anything they want to retain into userspace". This clearly was not done, and I find that to be a thoroughly disappointing situation. Sure, there was a lot of crap in the blogs, but there was plenty of good that is now permanently gone. It's too late now, but if I were the one orchestrating the removal, I would have given plenty of advance warning, locked the blogs (if possible, otherwise just ban the creation of new posts), and told people to move anything they want to keep into Forumspace or Userspace. To not give people that chance is highly unfair. To sum up, if this is the attitude with which things like this are treated, I hereby retract all of my former opposition to blogs. Obviously, doing so has no real effect, but it's a matter of principle. There's keeping the blogs in check, and then there's a total lack of consideration. The latter was chosen, and I think that it was definitely the wrong way to do things, and I'm sorry I was in any way a part of it. Not that I actually matter, of course, but still... Poor show, Fae. Category: Not impressed at all

This has to be one of the sickest things I've ever seen happen on this wiki. You seem to make out that blogspace is so large in activity, that it is a problem. So you destroy it? We've discussed that the things in blogspace can work in people's userspaces and the forums. So, say for instance someone had a weekly blog. Let's pretend they used to host it in userspace, then they thought they'd use blogs since it was there, then they have to switch back. This is fine in theory. They don't deem it worth it to back-up their entries, they don't even know what the admins are going to decide yet, what would be the point? So they wait for the decision. Wake up in the morning and blogspace doesn't exist. They're missing a huge section in their weekly blog.

So no one's probably done this. I assume there's people that regularly used the blog to, y'know, blog. They're missing their blogs, which they would have been fine to archive somewhere else if they knew blogspace was definitely going down.

This stuff can go in forums and userspace... but people have just lost at least a year's worth of what they wished to have keep. Announcing a deletion of blogspace in the site announcement, notifying people who have contributed a great deal to blogspace, and waiting two weeks, heck, even one is enough. But you didn't. I don't know what happened, but someone gave Wikia the go ahead.

I'm sorry, but this was not how it should have been. To see my username down there makes it look like I was in support of this massacre. We weren't supposed to remove two namespaces worth of content, we were only supposed to remove two namespace names (User blog, User blog comment (I'm sure there were talkspaces but they weren't used)), the content of which could be integrated into other namespaces.

When I saw a userblog I was watching appear in my email, I thought "wow", after all this time someone has commented on it. Doesn't exist? Happens all the time through Wikia emails. Deleted? Oh, ffwiki must have removed blogs. No site announcements. I find this forum topic, happy they actually did something about it after all this time (because the wiki doing nothing is what the wiki is best at), look through the comments and read down as the discussion goes on, creeping up to this current date, and apparently there was a sudden deletion. Where was the forethought? 88.108.92.208 15:59, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

		SSFF6B - "DISSIDIA 012 GET!" TALK - Come check out the Dissidia 012 Character Animations!
		Now the blogspaces are gone, and now I feel guilt. Why? Because I've realized that blogs that are worth reading are gone. There wasn't even an advanced notice. You know, one of those that say things like "Final Fantasy XIII is now open to editing" or "The Wiki will be going under maintenance tonight". None. I personally hated blogs that were pointless and consisting of one sentence and lacking any detail, but it was still entertaining to see the ones that weren't (Jeppo's, for example.) I didn't use the blogs feature mainly because I already have a blog and Twitter, but really, couldn't there have been a better way. This blog banning and deleting is equal to a hostile takeover. This is NOT how this problem should have been fixed. Way to fuck things up, Fae.

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		FëasindëTalk "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." 20:27, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
		I would like to apologise for my misbehaviour. I was rash and now I realise that the way I did what I did was careless and inconsiderate. I have contacted uberfuzzy and asked him to restore blogspace for the time being. The good news is that blogspace is restorable. The bad thing is that the only way of bringing it back completely is for an admin to undelete manually each page. Of course I am up for the task. I thank SN and the anon up there for their just rebuke. SSFF6B, you're a damn hypocrite. Keep your self-righteousness to yourself. Edit 03:01, June 10, 2010 (UTC): Please don't misunderstand me. I do intend to get rid of blogspace. I have merely requested a temporary reenabling of it in order for users to move their content to another place.

Sign me up for the restoration. And I have a theory about a compromise, what if we delegated a section of the forums for this sort of thing? We can remove it from the RC like we did with the rest of them and essentially isolate it from the rest of the wiki. Those who want to see them can, and those who do not can pretend it does not exist. Although there may be issues, so I would have to propose that said form subsection be highly regulated to keep out trolls and such. Again, this is just an idea, I figure this has a insanely slim chance of being seconded, but hey, might as well suggest it and see if the idea goes anywhere. Exdeath64 02:38, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm... the voice of reason. Didn't there used to be a Forum section like that, but it was deleted? I may be mistaken, but is that what the Waystone (mentioned above by Moocowisi) was? If so, we could just reinstate something like that. It'd be a forum, so it can be kept out of RC like Exdeath says. Some sort of regulation is definitely wise, although not to the point of being overzealous -- 10:40, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

We have the IRC for off-topic conversation, and the Blackjack for FF-related fun. The Waystone is gone, and we never want to resurrect what it became. — Yuan^Salve!_Acta 12:07, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

With hindsight, this could have been handled much better. To be honest, the blogs should have been removed as soon as it appeared, but now that it has months later, many people stand to lose what they have written.

What should have happened is that as soon as it was agreed on the removal on blogs, there would be a lock out so that new blogs cannot be created and a message at the top of the page stating that all blogs will be permanently removed in, say, two weeks' time. This will give users time to "move" their valuable writing from the blogs section and onto their userspace, and there would be a project page informing users on how to do just that. Then after the deadline is reached, all blogs go kaboom. Then we wouldn't have all this aggro with angry users asking for Fae's head on a platter.

I am glad that the blogs are temporarily returning just so people can save their work, but even so. It should have been handled much better than this. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 15:13, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

(Edit): Oh, and please restore my Trapezohedron guide. I'm not bothered about the others I've done. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 19:38, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Locking blog making is not possible by admins, and therefore not worth the effort. People who would make blog entries from then on don't matter because they were too blind to see the site announcement. People who make blog entries on protest don't matter since everything they said would be gone within two weeks.

Furthermore, I think Faethin knows why there was all this aggro, since he said he knew what he did was wrong already. Plus what you suggested should have been done was what I suggested should have been done and is a pretty simple idea to conjure... simply because it's the only thing you can do. The only variables are the lengths of time.

And the comments were not anti-Faethin. They were anti-this move. Faethin recognises this move was wrong, and is now trying to rectify it. Without the angry comments clearly displaying the userbase's reaction to the action. I have nothing against Faethin, he is clearly the most acting member of the staff. This wiki doesn't aim for perfection. Plus with the whole "trying to find a consensus" thing too. On my old wiki I just decided what was best all the time, and then did it. 88.108.114.185 20:57, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Disagree. Just because something is not in RC doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Even what is on people's userpages doesn't have to be moderated. The wiki isn't very good at moderating content, but that's because there is too much to moderate. This is why there are guidelines. But to the point, blogging forums doesn't fix anything other than the RC problem. My personal argument was it was unneeded since it works (and worked) in userspace and in forums already, depending on what it was about (daily experiences = userspace; topics of discussion = forums). Blogs could be removed from wikis right back when it started up. If I was a SysOp, they would have never outlived the first week.

But we don't want to encourage blogging. We respect that it is up to the user however. A blogging forum would encourage it. An additional forum is technically another forum that requires moderation (free-speech isn't 100% free). And it encourages more use of the forum. Less forum sections means people use each more, but overall, there is less activity than many, precise forum sections.

The more respectable editors and staff of the wiki don't encourage social chit-chat as much except in the IRC really. Rin's is the only I care about. It's not used much, and I hate the fact it has to be removed from RC because people like to over-use Blackjack (technically it wasn't Blackjack, was it Waystone? I can't remember. Many people got annoyed by the unproductive activity of editors, Hecko X suggested the forums-out-of-RC trick - I was against it). Two forums for social chit-chat is not what we want, or at least not what I want anyway. 88.108.114.185 20:57, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

		SSFF6B - "DISSIDIA 012 GET!" TALK - Come check out the Dissidia 012 Character Animations!
		OK, I know what I said was mostly a moment of douchebaggery, the blogs should still die, but a notice SHOULD have been put in the first place. And I also know it was completely out of line to question and admin's moves after I felt that what they said was right. I apologize for my sudden action, Faethin.

Actually...Is it possible to restore Rin's to the RC, while leaving the other ones out of it? I mean if Rin's covers official wiki business such as policy changes, perhaps it should be made so people can find get a notice if a new topic comes up. It might help to avoid debacles like this in the future. Exdeath64 01:44, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

No. The only way we could possibly pull this off is if we were to give Rin's it's own namespace. Which isn't that hard to pull off, a simple contacting of Wikia. But it just doesn't seem right separating Rin's from the rest when it is just a forum. One can argue topics in Rin's are just super-Talk pages (since they're things that cover more than just one article), and therefore have far more reason to enter RC. But unfortunately, it's just not possible without giving it its own namespace, which, tbh, looks messy on a wiki to divide it from forums like that. Just like it seems messy to have the RC linking to an invertnamespace over Special:RecentChanges. 88.108.97.77 13:31, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

'kay looks. Is it REALLY that big of a deal? You guys have said, it's a forum. But what to we use it for other than blogging? Just ignore it. Put up an obnoxious notice on the front page, or above all the pages or something. Is it really such a big deal and pet peeve to you that you have to remove all the blogs from the space? It's a blog so that you can TALK to people and post about stuff. I've seriously lost faith in all of you if it's really that serious. My vote? Keep them. Fallen-Todesengel 02:31, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

It's a removal of blogspace, not a removal of blogs from blogspace. Technically, we didn't want to remove all blogs, we wanted to move all blogs (just the ones people cared to keep anyway) to userspace or forumspace. The wiki does not encourage deviating from the main aim of the wiki:- to provide a comprehensive Final Fantasy database. Blogspace is a namespace that can gives no help to the wiki's content. In the instances it can, it would be far better off in a forum anyway. I'll end by saying: If you seriously came to the wiki for the social aspects, you'd be better off joining one of the many forums out there. 88.108.97.77 13:31, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

		Faythoffenrir - Damn you, TV Tropes! TALK - 23:20, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
		Whaaaaaaaat? I use my blog! Deleting it is a majorly stupid idea! I leave for awhile to go do finals, and this happens...

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii319/THE_faethin/kainfinal.png

		FëasindëTalk "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." 04:33, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
		Blog restored, Faythoffenrir. Keep in mind this is just a temporal reenabling of blogspace. Please move whatever content you wish to save from deletion to another space, be it your userspace or a pertinent forum thread.

Is there such a thing as shortage of space in the FF wikia? I mean if you guys have a space limit than okay deleting these stuff, but if that's not the case then I don't see the point. Also, even if there is a space limit, do blogs put a serious strain on it? If they don't then I don't see a problem either.

If for you guys space is not a problem, and I mean how much are you allowed to upload on this website, then I think being against blogs is just being controlling of other people's lives. If we have all the space there is no point in telling people they can't use their private spaces as they please. We should respect the dumb and the clever alike, specially because such concepts are highly relative.

So, just to drive my point: if you guys don't have a storage problem than it is wrong to delete stuff from people's pages.

I'm just saying all of this because I'm scared that stuff that's on my user page (not on the blog) might be one day deleted because some people thought it was not worthy existing. I'm using it to store actual stuff that I'm not storing on my PC. If they were to be deleted I'd lose some stuff I actually value. I'm storing them here to let people see and criticize it as well. --Cid of the Lufaine 16:08, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

We didn't want to delete anything that anyone didn't want deleted. We did, but that was an accident. Blogspace serves equally as well in userspace and forumspace as it does in blogspace. Furthermore, we do not want to promote blogging and other distractions from mainspace. So we're moving blogspaces content, not removing it. However, there is no efficient way to do this, so we request that people who care about their blogs can move it if they want to.

Userspace content can't be deleted. You can be advised to not use the wiki as a storage for non-wiki or non-FF related things, but admins have no right to delete it unless it breaches certain rules, like malicious content towards users. Although it has to be extreme, and no one really ever cares. 88.108.140.233 16:28, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

EDIT CONFLICT: I think I can safely state that Userspace will never be deleted. Blogspace was deleted because User- and Forumspace render it superfluous, and also because it was damn near turning the wiki into a social networking site. This is a wiki, not Facebook. It's not Photobucket or Megaupload either, so you shouldn't really be using it as a personal storage facility. Also, no offence, but it's downright stupid not to have backup files. Anyway, you're right about one thing: there is, to my knowledge, no actual limit on capacity. The flaw in your argument is that deleting Blogspace is controlling nothing but the wiki. Your point only stands in a scenario where Fae, in an insane act of tyranny, deletes every blogging site on the entire web. Unlikely, to say the least.

P.S. This issue is long since settled. You would have to come up with the mother of all convincing arguments to actually revive Blogspace, so you're rather wasting your time trying to argue against the removal at this point -- 16:32, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

The stuff I have stored here are all Final Fantasy related. That's why I stored them here in the first place, like I said, for people to see and criticize.

I started writing it all on my own PC first and I realized I could use some input from people that know about FF.

From that moment I made the full transition and started doing the updates to my content just in here instead of in here and on my own PC. It would be hard to adapt my own files to the wikia structure and I would be doubling my work everytime I wanted to do an update.

I also found that the wikia gave me a really good structure to organize and display all my files, hence my full transition.

This blog thing displays a community mindset. For me when the community gives a space for people to use and then want to remove it because it considers that people are using it to say "dumb" things, well it just shows that this kind of thing is capable of happening. Who knows, even if it is user space, which exists in every wikia, it could still one day be subject to some kind of quality control.

It just worries me that one day I come to find my stuff deleted because of some huge clean up I happened to miss for not visiting FFwikia for a couple of weeks.

Out of principle I think it is important to respect people's right to be dumb, as long as they are not insulting others and are not using limited space of any kind. Not only that, but I think that undermines people's trust on the FFwikia because it gave something to people and one day decided to take it away for arbitrary reasons.--Cid of the Lufaine 17:16, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Edit: one last point I'd like to bring up: when people put any kind of effort in here, even if to add stuff to their blogs, then the blogs are part of their lives. Deleting it because people think the whole thing is stupid IS controlling of other people's lives. This is a space like any other and I think we are better off avoiding censorship.--Cid of the Lufaine 17:21, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

I have to agree with you Cid; Sure, Blogspace can be considered the same as Userspace and Forumspace, but then that means that Userspace is the same as Forumspace and vice-versa. It measn that they are both redundant and that we only need one of them instead of both. But, you aren't going to get rid of either of those, so why would you get rid of Blogspace as well? You delete malicious stuff in Userspace and Fporumspace all the time and have never banned anyone from posting in those palces ever again, but as soon as someone does it in Blogspace, it is a crime and warrants the deletion of Blogspace forever? IMO, it is hypocrisy on your part. But, or couse, there is no reason to listen to me; you've already made your decision, and a few sentences aren't going to change that. But, I believe I have made a point, however small it may be. A.J. two ^{(Smashboards)} 17:43, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

"Censorship" is a straw man argument. Vandals put effort into creating spam pages. We censor them. Websites have rules, and if you will read the entire conversation, especially the parts about Forumspace and Userspace, you will see that the deciding arguments for deleting blogspace is not because most people think they are "stupid". 8bit 02:15, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

If you want so badly to get rid of blogspace because they are full of stupid things and what not, then why aren't you doing the same to all the stupid usersubpages and the stupid forums? You find stupid/malicious user/forumspace articles and delete them; you find stupid/malicious blogspace articles and you delete blogspace. It's as simple as that - it makes no sense that you would do to blogspace what you aren't going to ever do to the user and forumspace in the forseeable future. A.J. two ^{(Smashboards)} 04:20, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii319/THE_faethin/kainfinal.png

		FëasindëTalk "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." 05:04, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
		...and if you will read the entire conversation, especially the parts about Forumspace and Userspace, you will see that the deciding arguments for deleting blogspace is not because most people think they are "stupid". -8bit @ AJ2: Will you shut up already and read other people's messages carefully? For a guy that 1) has been here for less than three months and that 2) has less than 10 edits on the mainspace you sure like to ride the wave of Superior Morals a little bit too much.

Thats quite enough! I know that I shouldn't be talking since I'm pretty new here, but, Faethin, you do not tell a user to SHUTUP! Thats immature and just plain rude! A.J., people can have their own opinions! Gosh! --Auror. plus the great Andrachome 05:25, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

		Adonzo - I don't claim to have a degree in doctorology TALK - 05:31, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
		Going out on a limb here, but going parental on an admin probably isn't going to help matters. I foresee a locking of this thread in the near future (is that even possible here? wiki forums are strange and foreign to me). This has long since spiraled away from meaningful conversation.

		Yuan 翠珊 — 06:24, June 21, 2010 (UTC) "He wants to write a love song / An anthem of forgiving / A manual for living with defeat"
		Keep it civil, everyone. Here's how it is: This thread is for making requests for restorations of blogs. Once that's done, I'm locking it. If you any complaints about the actions of the staff, or wiki policy, make a new thread about it. This is not the place for doing so. Blogspace was not something the community decided to have. It was a Wikia addition, which the majority of people in this forum viewed as redundant. Additional reasons have been mentioned. The wiki is not a democracy, nor is it a group of elites lording it over a group of powerless victims.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii319/THE_faethin/kainfinal.png

		FëasindëTalk "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." 19:11, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
		Okay guys. More than two weeks have gone by. I'm locking this thread, moving it to the Labyrinth and requesting the removal of blogspace.

---

So, since I know that everyone is going to vote against it (Like last time), I will make a vote tally and put everyone's name on it that has said something in this Forum, the old Forum, and the New blog that started this re-debate (In order). Note that names may will be repeated, and some will be stuck out when I find that they might have changed their vote mid-discussion. Also, this is what I belive from reading that everyone has said; if you don't agree with it - and I know you will definately not - then you don't even have to say anything; I know that you won't, and I know that you will secretly hate me deep down inside A.J. two ^{(Smashboards)} 13:20, June 8, 2010 (UTC):

Votes From Old Forum

Votes For Blogs

1. Kuzlalala
2. Wee187

Votes Against Blogs

1. Hecko X*
2. Diablocon*
3. 8bit BlackMage*
4. Sorceror Nobody
5. BlueHighwind
6. ILHI
7. Bek The Conqueror

Votes From This Forum

Votes For Blogs

1. Exdeath64 05:30, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
2. Judge Balthier 19:28, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
3. FaythOfFenrir 23:26, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Votes Against Blogs

1. Faethin*
2. SilverCrono
3. Drake Clawfang
4. HenryAcores
5. Sorceror Nobody (sort of passively against)
6. HarpieSiren
7. SSFF6B
8. DeadlySlashSword
9. NeloAngelo
10. SilverDragon28
11. 8bit
12.  TheBlueDragoon 
13. Bjarnster

Comments

		KujaRhapsodos - You don't need a reason to help people. TALK - 19:32, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
		Why was the Neutral section taken away?

		Judge Balthier - Hamshanks! TALK - 19:40, June 8, 2010 (UTC) "Good sense? Me? You have no idea who you're dealing with..."
		Maybe because being neutral does nothing but prolong things?

		Xepscern - It's Morphin Time!! TALK - 22:22, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
		How about another column? The people who just want to see this arguement die. It's obviouse the anti-blog people have won, so what's the point of this futher shout fest?

		KujaRhapsodos - You don't need a reason to help people. TALK - 10:31, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
		No, the neutral just made us aware that actually a lot more people took notice of this thing. Anyway, it's too late for that! XD

Phht. Decisions are made by voting? The majority gets a C average. Quality of argument is what counts in any forum of debate worthy of respect. I abstain from participation in a flawed process. VvAnarchangelvV 17:14, June 14, 2010 (UTC)