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Forums: Index > Rin's Travel Agency > BTS overhaul: changes to footnotes, citations, development, and trivia


Technobliterator

The professional referencing on the ratchet wiki looks overdone. "Stout, Garcia 2012"? That style of referencing simply isn't suitable for the wiki. We are a wiki about FF games, when referencing an FF game we can just state the game name and link to the page and that can be it. I think similarly with books, although including a publisher/author/imprint qualifier in some cases (e.g. Famitsu, BradyGames) will be useful just because people distinguish strategy guides by them. Some books have the same info but over multiple ISBNs.

I also don't believe info readily available in the game need be cited. It makes adding information to the wiki far more cumbersome for newcomers. I can't see it working here on our scale. Now I'm not against adding citations for scenarios and dialogue in the game if the editor feels it's obscure or a reader is questioning where it is from. I don't think making it a requirement will be fun for anyone though.

And so I also don't see the value in splitting Citations and References. Our sources are the media the things appear in, that is obvious. Anything revealed outside that media should be cited because that is not obvious. Our articles don't have many citations unless they're focusing on out-of-universe things, but in such cases it's not like we end up citing the same thing a lot. I see the Ratchet wiki makes a lot of references to some Developer commentary videos, but you should totally make an article for those videos, and the citations should link to it! You don't need to repeat all that Harvard stuff every time, just the page link and the timestamp. JBed (talk) 04:09, January 14, 2020 (UTC)

Addendum: If we're citing books and games not in our scope, adding more info to the citation makes more sense. Not Harvard levels, but the books should list the name, publisher, author, ISBN, and mebbe year. I can't really imagine there's any situation where citing a non-FF game makes any sense though. JBed (talk) 04:14, January 14, 2020 (UTC)

You'll have to actually elaborate on why Harvard referencing is not "suitable for a wiki". We're an encyclopedia. We're meant to be a credible, authoritative source, and so presenting information the same way as an encyclopedia page or a research paper serves the goal. In what way is it not "suitable for a wiki"? If the opposition is just based on how much work is involved, then I'll point out that a) the ref templates require no more code than adding a sideicon (all information is stored in Module:Codename), and b) not every page needs to do this just as not every page needs a citation at all, but for ones where the editor wishes to go the extra mile to make a page more presentable, I can't see why one would blanket oppose this.
Citations for the videos, which link to the full reference for the videos, use "Stout, Garcia 2012", because otherwise you'd need to type out the full information of the video every citation. The references are there to avoid repetition. Citations for the game just use the game name followed by what is being cited, and the references for games (which are automatically generated and take no more code to add than just adding a sideicon, btw) are because a game is a source of information like any other.
Information readily from the game does not need to be cited, the citations would indeed only be added if an editor (normally an experienced editor) feels the scenario or dialogue is obscure. It's added to provide further credibility to information on a page, but not all pages would need this.
That said, if you can figure out how to hack open the games to find a bit of info, they can definitely figure out how to use a really simple citation template. These are not hard in the slightest to use, and it is reasonable to point to where they found it in the games' files as a courtesy to allow for independent verification, which requires the verifier to seek a source to ensure authenticity. So while I'm not suggesting we require all edits to do this, "makes it far more cumbersome for newcomers" seems like a silly reason to oppose adding the ability to cite obscure information with a cite template given how current citations have requirements like "use Web Archive every time you cite a web page" or "upload an audio sample for all videos" (the last one should go mind you. It's the writer's responsibility to point to a source, not provide it, same reason research papers don't attach copies of every book or study they cite).
RE: "I can't think of a situation where we can cite a non-FF game" -- I can. Many voice actors first voiced their character in Kingdom Hearts. If we have to cite one of those games in reference to any information by the voice actor, we can cite those games. Should we do so, non-FF media should have equal weighting as a source.--Magicite-ffvi-ios Technobliterator @fandom (TC) 08:10, January 14, 2020 (UTC)
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