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Well, I certainly said a lot for someone who previously claimed that he wasn't sure of what to say. Sorry if I ramble a bit in the addendum part; I just read a heavy duty philosophy paper and my brain is a bit scrambled. :/}}
 
Well, I certainly said a lot for someone who previously claimed that he wasn't sure of what to say. Sorry if I ramble a bit in the addendum part; I just read a heavy duty philosophy paper and my brain is a bit scrambled. :/}}
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{{TA|01:52, August 2, 2013 (UTC)|Its hard to pick a starting point for the topic. Yuan and I talked about this at some length a day or two ago about what she could or should do, though I tried to stay out of the prescription business. We also talked at some length about Scathe and what we should do regarding the sudden change of the equation. We were agreed that it was probably not the most ideal resolution to the situation. To the extent that there was an argument that we needed a second active bureaucrat, Diablo's intervention has more or less solved that need. I think it speaks to Diablo's opinion on the matter of bureaucrats and it was other's choice to involve her. I haven't had a chance to speak with Yuan since that, but I am sure we probably will talk about it more in the future.
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As stated before, I have a generally favorable but ill-defined opinion of Scathe. Mostly this is because I have only seen him as an editor, and I have a generally favorable opinion of most of the users here who don't intentionally stir up trouble or mess up pages. I know Scathe is involved in LP, but no one had ever invited me until Blue. I thought Scathe and I had an understanding, and that he understood and respected my opinion on this, and then apparently we didn't, which sort of led to where we are now. It seems we have a lot of varying opinions on what could/would/should be done from here on out. For m part, my reticence is largely unchanged. I haven't talked with him personally since, and I'm not sure of the need at this point. In short, I thought I had an roadmap, but right now I probably have less of an solution than before.
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Rather anecdotal, I am not sure about the typical ratios between users and administrators to sysops. I think it varies widely from wiki to wiki. The wookipedia might have 1 bureaucrat for ever 5 admins, but then the Marvel/DC wikis, they functionally have 1 Sysop for two huge, active wiki. I could take it to a wild extreme with the Wikipedia, but I'm not trying to appeal to absurdity, I am just not sure if there is a good rule of thumb.}}

Revision as of 01:52, August 2, 2013

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Forums: Index > Rin's Travel Agency > Archive > An update on the staff situation

Woton

No. We don't need the opinion of Diablo, we just need her to promote Scathe on consensus. What is even up with that? JBed (talk) 12:29, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

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Some Color Mage / Talk Contribs / Let's Stream Random PS4 Crap. / 12:44, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
Quite honestly, I've been trying to keep out of this mess, but Yuan poked me to give an opinion, so, meh, here I am. To me, the problem isn't "We want Scathe as a bcrat", but "We want a backup bcrat". It doesn't matter who, as long as they are easy to contact and know what they are doing, which Yuan does. And so is Scathe. So it doesn't really matter which one of you two, or even both of you, are bcrats.

I'm completely fine with having both Yuan and Scathe as additional bcrats.--Sove 12:50, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

Of course it matters that Scathe is made bcrat. The community chose Scathe and votes for Scathe. It's only half about a backup bcrat due to TA demonstratably not following the community, the other half is about Scathe being bcrat as per the staff discussion. JBed (talk) 12:55, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

Well excuse me for seeing the more important part as being more important. It really is irrelevant who it is doing the job as long as they do the job well. We just went with Scathe as he was the first person who fit that was suggested. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 12:58, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
But following that situation, what would make you think that just-Yuan would be more desirable than just-Scathe? I also think you are trivialising the reasons people picked Scathe. JBed (talk) 13:34, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
Oi, take those words out of my mouth. I am not implying in any way, shape or form that either of those three outcomes are more desirable than any other. The desirable outcome is one that works. Funnily enough, all three will. As for trivialising the reasons? Tell me what the reasons the people have given, considering you spent some time earlier on the IRC quote mining me and Yuan. A quick search of the August 2012 discussion shows that very few people could articulate a reason why Scathe should be promoted aside from attitude and activity, both of which are not unique traits. And quite frankly, there's a lot of white noise and "well, we already agreed that he should be bcrat" in the most recent discussion, with the only added reason being that he's been leading a few wiki projects recently, which isn't exactly what I'd consider a reason for bcrat. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 13:44, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
:) -- I looked back at the thread where Scathe first got consensus to look for those who were part of the consensus for a new bcrat. Rather gloriously, both of your statements were the clearest against it. Let's be honest: I know opinions can change, but I'm fairly sure I didn't hear too much dissent this time around, just that TA is not that active (/other reasons) so we need a new one. But now, now Yuan is already a bcrat, and we wanted Scathe, where's the problem in two more bcrats? That's not just opinions changing, that's a complete change of heart from everyone in a short space of time.
Especially when you consider that the idea of "having enough mods" wasn't dispelled too long ago, and the idea of "having enough admins" still holds true, unless the promotion of three this time changes that.
I'll say one thing about Scathe and declare myself out. I don't think we have any perfect user for the bcrat role. It was Scathe and no one else when he was more actively editing, but I am only behind him now because it's a continuation of previous support, an easy choice to get people behind, and because it's someone. Ah, you got me. THAT SAID, his work in the LP and other events do go to show he commands respect and takes a leading position. Role of bcrat is to help run things, follow in consensus (and assist in getting consensus). It also carries the burdens of being the guy to go to, and being seen as a spokesperson of sorts --Scathe's the best we have. JBed (talk) 14:59, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

I am perfectly fine with Yuan being bcrat. She was not the community's choice, true, but I doubt you will find many in the community who object to her. I would certainly wholeheartedly support her subsequently promoting Scathe, as in principle the issue of noncompliance with consensus currently remains, but it's not necessary. As to whether she then demotes herself, that is entirely up to her. Ultimately, the important thing is that Yuan is someone I trust to make sensible decisions on the matter -- Sorceror Nobody Flan 13:33, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

I was invited to comment in this thread, so I will do so. Who am I? Not important. I got multiple things to say here. Diablo promoting Yuan when asked to intervene re: the whole Scathe thing (sorry for such a informal name. Would Scathegate be better?)...yeah, what is up with that? I could ramble a bit about my feelings on this coming about, but that isn't what is important and would probably have Diablo and her friends mad at me. I do personally feel that both Yuan and Scathe can be trusted with Bcrat powers and would be OK with both having them, just in case. The problem here, I feel, is the fact that Yuan wasn't voted to be a Bcrat, so her becoming one due to...whatever is going on there might rub the userbase the wrong way. Not because it's Yuan specifically, but because it isn't something they decided, and there was a big deal made about community consensus and all. (Looking back, Yuan wasn't even nominated. Which is rather bizarre in of itself, but that isn't here or there) But yes, give Scathe the promotion that was decided, and if Yuan wants to hang on to hers just in case, that's ultimately her choice (a "backup bcrat" might come in handy though). I probably said something that was said like three times or something extremely stupid, so sorry about that in advance.--Otherarrow (talk) 15:01, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

BlueHighwind TA

Well, I've only just come back after days of being ill. Yuan is a great choice for bcrat as at least she'll be there if we ask her to be there, and she's an IRC constant within her time zone. However...she said herself this wasn't what she wanted, and Scathe doesn't want to be bcrat anymore either, so forcing the authority upon him would be as bad as Diablo's pathetic attempt to pass on the baton without giving a flying f*** about anyone else's opinion. As of now I've officially lost faith in our hopelessly ignorant, dictatorship system and I bid all the other bcrats minus Yuan good riddance. Welcome to power, Yuan. May you use it well. Tia-LewiseRydia - Young battle 15:25, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

I think Yuan and Scathe would be good bcrats, so let's go with that. Oh, and BH too for kicks and giggles. --Shockstorm (talk) 17:29, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

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TacticAngel TALK 01:52, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
Its hard to pick a starting point for the topic. Yuan and I talked about this at some length a day or two ago about what she could or should do, though I tried to stay out of the prescription business. We also talked at some length about Scathe and what we should do regarding the sudden change of the equation. We were agreed that it was probably not the most ideal resolution to the situation. To the extent that there was an argument that we needed a second active bureaucrat, Diablo's intervention has more or less solved that need. I think it speaks to Diablo's opinion on the matter of bureaucrats and it was other's choice to involve her. I haven't had a chance to speak with Yuan since that, but I am sure we probably will talk about it more in the future.

As stated before, I have a generally favorable but ill-defined opinion of Scathe. Mostly this is because I have only seen him as an editor, and I have a generally favorable opinion of most of the users here who don't intentionally stir up trouble or mess up pages. I know Scathe is involved in LP, but no one had ever invited me until Blue. I thought Scathe and I had an understanding, and that he understood and respected my opinion on this, and then apparently we didn't, which sort of led to where we are now. It seems we have a lot of varying opinions on what could/would/should be done from here on out. For m part, my reticence is largely unchanged. I haven't talked with him personally since, and I'm not sure of the need at this point. In short, I thought I had an roadmap, but right now I probably have less of an solution than before.

Rather anecdotal, I am not sure about the typical ratios between users and administrators to sysops. I think it varies widely from wiki to wiki. The wookipedia might have 1 bureaucrat for ever 5 admins, but then the Marvel/DC wikis, they functionally have 1 Sysop for two huge, active wiki. I could take it to a wild extreme with the Wikipedia, but I'm not trying to appeal to absurdity, I am just not sure if there is a good rule of thumb.

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