Final Fantasy Wiki talk:Scope

So? What do we think? I think this is important for any wiki and I figured I'd give it a go. Change it as you like of course. Oh, and I forgot to add the compilations...gotta do that too. Mason11987 23:49, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Pretty good. Of course, anyone can discuss changes here. Crazyswordsman 04:28, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't disagree. I think, considering the aggressive policies of this wiki versus the expansion of Kingdom Hearts articles, references to 8-Bit theatre should be trimmed back to the bare minimum. I do not think Black Mage Evilwizardington deserves his own article, for instance. I have no vested interest in either KH or 8-bit, so I'm speaking purely analytically. --TacticAngel 23:08, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The difference between 8-Bit and KH is that 8-Bit is accepted by fans as a non-canon storyline and is incredibly popular (there are people who know of FFI just because of 8-Bit), whereas KH, while also extremely popular, is simply related to FF the way Zelda or Donkey Kong are to Mario. Also, 8-Bit articles were victims of a Wikipedia purge, so I offered to transwiki them here and fix them up. --Crazyswordsman 02:23, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Vagrant Story

		BlueHighwind Q? TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ:
		It appears our scope needs admending on this one now that we're giving full coverage. Perhaps this new rule: "full coverage of all Ivalice titles, including Vagrant Story".

Bullet Lists

I found the page hard to look at because the games were listed in paragraph form, so I decided to make bullet lists. I then noticed some games were missing so I added some things and changed some grammar accordingly. --Glass Desert

Change?

Okay, I was thinking maybe we should change this article and categorise games into levels. If Level 1 coverage is full coverage, that's everything in the game order. Now, I think we should give "Final Fantasy Legends" and the first "Final Fantasy Adventure" full coverage... tbh, if "Final Fantasy" is in the name of the game, people will come to the Final Fantasy Wiki for the information, so we should cover them. But if we don't, they should be moved into "Other appearances" and moved out of the Game Order. --Also--, FFXI and FFXIV still get full coverage. We just haven't reached it yet. We do this by grouping things of course.

Anyway, Level 2 coverage would be Kingdom Hearts, Ehrgeiz: God Bless the Ring, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, Lord of Vermilion... -- these things get articles, and get entries on parents under "Other appearances" if there is a definite connection to the topic subject. Like Meteorain, and Rydia.

If there are other categories of coverage, then we could add them as well, but there aren't really. We definitely cover the core-series of games better, bar the Online ones, better than other games, but we're supposed to cover them in full.

I just thing something like I suggest above is better for this page. I also think the Game Order should be on here instead of the MoS, and should just be linked to on the MoS in one of the bullets near the top of the article. 88.108.126.48 11:51, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the guy above. 79.69.195.227 10:45, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Chocobo series should also get complete coverage under Level 1. - Henryacores^ 21:10, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

I don't agree with the full coverage of Final Fantasy Legends. Those are simply Saga games with the names changed and really shouldn't count in the first category (Final Fantasy isn't in the Japanese title). Final Fantasy Adventure is okay since it was originally a Final Fantasy game and then retroactively made a Mana game.

I agree with the rest of it though. The scope page will need to be reorganized heavily when this goes into effect (two columns maybe?), but since most of the project pages are aging this is a good thing. ScatheMote 21:17, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

I agree that full coverage of Final Fantasy Legends is not needed, because it's not a "true" Final Fantasy game.Keltainentoukokuu 21:22, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

"if "Final Fantasy" is in the name of the game, people will come to the Final Fantasy Wiki for the information" 79.69.203.59 21:32, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

If we base ourselves in the western regions, then we must cover Final Fantasy Legends and Final Fantasy Adventure because they were released as such here. In Japan, they were always released as SaGa and Seiken Densetsu, but we are the English FF Wiki. - Henryacores^ 21:35, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, Final Fantasy Adventure did have Final Fantasy in its Japanese title (see the page), but I don't think Final Fantasy Legend should get full coverage. Final Fantasy Legend is nothing like any other Final Fantasy games (1st person battle system, nothing iconic to the series, etc.). The games are called Final Fantasy Legend in attempt to garner some name brand recognition since it was releases around the same time as the NES game was in America. ScatheMote 21:43, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Every Final Fantasy game has considerable differences from the last. If they didn't have "Final Fantasy" in the title, you could probably accept that it's just another Square game. As soon as they were given the name "Final Fantasy", they joined the Final Fantasy series, just like FFLegends did. It's not like the wiki would have a problem catering for the games. It would just mean a bunch of lists, character, location, and enemy pages, and redirects. 79.69.203.59 21:56, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

It would be a crying shame if somebody knowledgeable on Final Fantasy Legends came here, did a few good quality articles on said games, only to see it all get deleted because it shouldn't be covered to such an extent. What kind of message will that send to that person? Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 22:05, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

But should FFL be flagged as a stub to the existing pages? Because if it's full coverage that means it's currently missing and needs to be added.Keltainentoukokuu 22:08, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Yes. After all, we should be looking for complete coverage. - Henryacores^ 22:21, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Third Tier

I want to suggest the organization of third-tier titles, through either chronological or alphabetical (or any other rigid structuring, it could even be letter count) order, since the current criteria are simply too vague. - Henryacores 00:27, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

The idea is if Lightning appears in other games, then these games will appear higher in the list than if her character was referenced in. If Snow is referenced in the first game, but appears in the second game, then since his role is more important in the second game then it would go first.

And then there is the case of official and non-official cameos. On this list I would place SE games above non-SE games. Because they are more official and therefore I think for these type of sections descending priority should be used.

And then if we cover Dead Fantasy, which focuses on many heroines, but there was another fan-production we cover which focuses on just Tifa, then I would expect that to be higher on the page since it's more relevant to and focused on Tifa.

That's the reasoning anyway. JBed (talk) 00:38, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, but among two references in equally obscure media, what would you place first? In the end the selection is completely subjective. - Henryacores 02:48, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

Add a Game

Please add "Bravely Second (Game)" (as "Bravely Second" also appears as a gameplay element in "Bravely Default") as a sequel to "Bravely Default". Source: link—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) ∙ 14:57, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

Nuh-uh. "Bravely Second" would be the page for the game, and "Bravely Second (Bravely Default)" would be the gameplay term. See also Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, Project:Naming Policy. 92.28.178.234 19:06, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

"Final Fantasy Artniks Dive" is missing. Please add it.—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) ∙ 15:52, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

The what now? The first part of including something in our scope is for it to have a page. JBed (talk) 16:13, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

Kind of a 'extention' to "Final Fantasy Artniks", I guess, which looks like this.—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) ∙ 16:16, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

Eh, okay, I see things about it on the internet, so now we need a well-cited page for it. JBed (talk) 16:18, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

		Xenomic TALK - 03:35, April 24, 2015 (UTC)
		I don't think Chocobo Racing is supposed to be before Exvius and Mobius, right??

Nowai. Moved with the rest of the Choco series. JBed (talk) 04:08, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Portal App and World of FF

Where does Final Fantasy Portal App and World of Final Fantasy stand in all this? I case you're wondering why FFPA should be listed here it's because it's gonna have Triple Triad (which is already implemented in the app's Japanese version) and there's bound to be a lot of cards with characters and enemies depicted on them.—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) ∙ 17:58, June 21, 2015 (UTC)

		Xenomic TALK - 04:38, August 26, 2015 (UTC)
		Bringing this back up, as it needs added to the list for both.

FF Legend & Adventure remakes

I was wondering if the remakes of FF Legend 1/2/3 and FF Adventure (Sword of Mana and the upcoming 3D remake) are within the scope of this Wiki. --Chrono Cross (talk) 06:49, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

World of Final Fantasy

		Xenomic TALK - 03:48, December 19, 2015 (UTC)
		I noticed this isn't listed in the Scope yet. Where should it be placed? We need this so that we can place it properly on articles. I was going to put this Yuna image on her page but...I don't know where exactly it's going to be. ^^;

Is not yet released but should be a first-tier.
TTFan from JP (talk) 03:54, December 19, 2015 (UTC)

Ordering, not tier.

Best place IMO would be in the same general area as Dissidia/TFF. Characters from all over the series and using similar character designs, we've got sort of a thematic block there. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 04:35, December 19, 2015 (UTC)

This should still be added to the scope. I don't know where in a list of games to put it!Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:14, October 20, 2016 (UTC)

I added it to Codename with the colors:

a

b

I took "a" from the upper right of the logo and b from the center (I wanted something light that would have easily-readable darktext on it). But feel free to change them if you dislike.

Rationale behind ordering after FFWWW: other than TFF and Dissi which are ordered within their subseries, all of the games from "all over the series" are listed from Dissi to FFWWW chronological to their release dates. So it should go after FFWWW. Cat (meow ∙ hunt) 00:00, October 21, 2016 (UTC)

		Xenomic TALK - 04:09, October 27, 2016 (UTC)
		Hmm...shouldn't this go after Exvius, in that case?? I mean, Exvius falls in that category of characters from all over the series and whatnot.

Some Color Mage / Talk Contribs / / 05:17, October 27, 2016 (UTC) You would be correct. I'll move its position on the list, but I'm not sure how much needs to be done to fix articles. Have we even been placing WoFF sections in the correct area of the page yet?

		Xenomic TALK - 22:14, October 27, 2016 (UTC)
		Lord no. I've seen it at the very end of the list, and smushed together with the last thing on the list. >_<

Mario Hoops/Sports Mix

Mario Hoops 3-on-3 and Mario Sports Mix qualify for second tier, right? They were developed by Square Enix and feature playable FF characters and stages. To me, they seem like they're about as relevant to the series as Ergheiz and Smash Bros., so should I go ahead and write some pages? --Leon95 00:01, May 3, 2016 (UTC)

I don't see why not.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 00:08, May 3, 2016 (UTC)

New Trading Card Game

		Xenomic TALK - 20:53, October 30, 2016 (UTC)
		What information do we have on this one? Is it the exact same as the original? Or is it a newer version that should have its own section, probably a subsection to the original TCG?

From what I've gathered it seems to be a reboot of the original, with the same rules and some new cards thrown into the mix (DFF Arcade, WoFF, and VII Remake). IMO our coverage for the TCG should focus on this one because of its worldwide release. Miyu 21:59, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

		Xenomic TALK - 22:03, October 30, 2016 (UTC)
		Hmmmm...so should the old ones be put in like a "Legacy" section? Or should we still have an article for this one, and just list what we have for the worldwide version there?

There will most likely be no more new chapters for the original. It's basically dead at this point. Japan will also get this rebooted version in December, so personally I'd put the old Japanese cards into a "Legacy" section to make room for the new, "definitive" version. But I don't know, maybe someone else has a better idea? Miyu 22:17, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

		Xenomic TALK - 22:21, October 30, 2016 (UTC)
		Since the original was just called "Final Fantasy Trading Card Game", and this one is the same thing, but of a different name, it probably should just get its own section honestly, while noting that the original one is long dead and has since been replaced by this version. That's what I think anyways. We'll be needing to add these cards to the character and ability pages too (I already temporarily added them to pages under the old name), so there's that to keep in mind.

Sounds fine by me. I'll add the images to the character pages tomorrow or in the coming days, whenever I have time for it. Miyu 00:23, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

Justice Monster V

		Xenomic TALK - 02:15, November 14, 2016 (UTC)
		We need to add this somewhere, but where? I'm assuming after FFXV, but I'm not quite sure where yet.

		Keltainentoukokuu - OH YEAH AWESOME TALK - Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 09:33, November 14, 2016 (UTC)
		It goes under FFXV. It's a minigame you can play in the main game, apparently.

Legends II

Final Fantasy Legends: Toki no Suishō on this list needs to be changed to Final Fantasy Dimensions II but I don't know how to edit it.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 02:22, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Opera Omnia

		Xenomic TALK - 06:53, February 22, 2017 (UTC)
		This needs added under the arcade version of the game.

Final Fantasy Explorers Force

		Xenomic TALK - 21:23, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
		Seems we'll be needing to add this to here too: http://gematsu.com/2017/02/final-fantasy-explorers-force-first-details-screenshots

		Xenomic TALK - 02:13, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
		Shouldn't A King's Tale be added here, or is it not worth adding at all??

		Xenomic TALK - 03:54, August 6, 2017 (UTC)
		We still need to add stuff to this thing. I don't know how we add them though, so someone still needs to add what's not there...

Ordering second tier

On Discord it was observed that the order of second tier currently makes no sense (a defunct phone game should not come before Kingdom Hearts). I proposed the following order:

• Kingdom Hearts
• Bravely Default
• Dragon Quest
• Ehrgeiz
• Bahamut Lagoon
• Blood of Bahamut
• Lord of Vermilion
• Secret of Evermore
• Gyromancer
• Knights of the Crystals
• Monster X Dragon
• SMRPG
• Smash
• Mario Hoops 3-on-3

This would give the random Mario games lowest priority; followed by the phone games roughly in order of importance (was Monster X Dragon ever even released?); then the two SE games that don't fit anywhere else; then the Bahamut games; then the four games that are significant enough that we could consider them to have tier "2 - ε" in that they are particularly important to the wiki and we affiliate closely with another wiki that covers them (this isn't currently true for DQ and Ehrgeiz, but Techno has proposed to affiliate with w:c:dragonquest). Cat (meow ∙ hunt) 01:46, January 2, 2020 (UTC)

Agreed, and I'd add to list a relevant affiliate wiki next to the link.-- Technobliterator (^T_C) 02:07, January 2, 2020 (UTC)

As I said on the Discord I think this arrangement works. The exact order in each sub-group of priority is a bit tricky to get down but figuring out which gacha game nobody's ever heard of is worth being higher on the list than other gacha games nobody's ever heard of and is going to result in arbitrary decisions anyway.

Fully implementing the change will rely on us finishing the Bravely fork, which should be soon. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 03:26, January 2, 2020 (UTC)

If there's no more comment on this, I'll make the change within a week. Need to do it soon anyway, as Bravely is moving down to second tier. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 06:06, March 15, 2020 (UTC)

Making this change now. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 06:18, March 21, 2020 (UTC)