BlueHighwind (talk | contribs) |
TacticAngel (talk | contribs) m (→Terra vs. Vivi) |
||
| Line 407: | Line 407: | ||
PS: Refia really won.}} |
PS: Refia really won.}} |
||
| + | {{TA|04:48, December 29, 2010 (UTC)|I do want to clear a few things up that were said but here and there, but are not necessarily being brought forward. The rules that MMII agreed to were the following: |
||
| + | #All rules of the DNC would apply subject to my oversight |
||
| + | #The finals would be held here (aka [[Sazh|Shaq]] v. [[Terra|Tina]]) |
||
| + | #The fight would be posted with 10 days of being submitted to me |
||
| + | |||
| + | I think we can see that all of those points of agreement were broken by the MMII party at various points. I have been pretty flexible in this, even delaying the fights while waiting for MMII to live up to its end of the agreement. By what rules would I abide? Some of you may think this was handled poorly, but I think it would be fair to walk through each of the scenarios outlined on my talk page and ask yourself 'would anyone have objected to this?' I think in every case you'd get yes. You can ask 'could it have been handled better or worse,' and thats probably much more subjective. Ultimately the oversight was mine, as agreed to by all parties and printed on the DNC itself. I was going to have to make a judgment call one way or the other, so the most honest thing is to label it a judgment call from the beginning. Deleting votes would have caused anguish, suddenly changing the rules would have made people balk, and I know calling a draw would have pissed people off. |
||
| + | |||
| + | It might be fair to say that I made an assumption based on discussions and how this fight was labeled that Vivi is the defending MM champion, back to defend himself in the Ultimate Championship. I can only say that everything I've seen points to this, though it was never expressly written out to me. |
||
| + | |||
| + | DeadlySlashsword, very briefly, I did look up all of those IP's. Its really more of an academic exercise for me since I have a degree in computer science. I know a few tricks, and I know of a lot more than I know how to do myself. As you addressed, proving where the IP's come from does not speak for or against their legitimacy. |
||
| + | |||
| + | I do have some statistical numbers, which is from where I derive my opinions on these things, and if anyone wants to get really bored with math, I will post them. It would take some time to explain. I'm not sure what to do in this case because I am at once accused of not answering questions while providing excessively lengthy answers. |
||
| + | |||
| + | ...and really, anyone who looks at the fiction I write knows that I am not trying to talk over your head. I naturally write in a stilted, formal, and verbose fashion. |
||
| + | |||
| + | And thanks to whoever said I can draw.}} |
||
Revision as of 04:48, 29 December 2010
 |
This is for discussing the nature of the DNC itself. If you would like to leave a nomination for the DNC, click here.
Template
I like the new design and all, I just have a problem with all the white space. Could we make the "V" image transparent, and get the borders to go all the way around the images? Template:BfDsig
And the "Winner : Undecided" part should better be put at BOTH spaces under the image, at 1st glance I thought there's already a winner at the 1st day... Leon5550
List of Past Battles...
How about having a simple, quick and dirty list of all battles that have previously been done? That way, instead of scrolling throughout the entire, huge archives, people could just refer to a simple list? George B. (talk) 23:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
- User:Yuanchosaan/Sandbox#DNC battles. Give the girl some credit. D: Template:BfDsig
Nominations Page
It's cool that we have this and all, but there's so much crap on it that it freezes up whenever you're editing, and it takes like 5-10 minutes just to type a simple paragraph, like the one I'm doing right now. I'm not really sure what we could do about this...archive it more often? Have some more mods to delete suggestions that are obviously retarded? I dunno...does anyone share my thoughts? EDIT: I know one thing we can do, already. Instead of crossing out fights that have been accepted, or have already been done, let's just delete them, with the edit summary as "Already been done" or "Accepted" or whatever. | |||
I don't read the nomination page, but a quick skim makes it seem huge. There are over 150 nominations on that page, and a lot of them have their own discussions under them. The page is 250 Kilobytes in size. That's absurd. I'm not in charge of that page, nor do I actively (read: ever) participate in it, but it should be archived now, and much more often. For the sake of the people that use it, at least. Edit: You don't have to delete them, just archive the page sooner. | |||
Show/hide
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 16:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
1st on the IRC had a good idea about the ludicrous length of the Peanut Gallery: collapse it into a show/hide box like our game templates. (Template:FFIX). This way, people who want to..... comment ..... will need to take the time to open the Gallery, while those who would rather not see all the chatter will need to do nothing. We likes? | |||
1stclasswarrior - Meus vita , meus diligo , meus lily of sanctimonia... TALK - 16:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
Obvously, I like it. Thanks for the reference! | |||
Deadlyslashsword - +What to do when I feel lonely?+ TALK - 16:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC) - I don't want to be alone anymore...help me do this right. | |||
I support...wholeheartedly. | |||
I support. With how it is now, I have to scroll through large amounts of meaningless (to me at least) jibber jabber just to see last weeks fight, and the pages do get rather clutered with all the discussion. That reminds me, wasn't there a "Complain or vote, not both" thing? Sorry if that's irrelevent, but I read some complaining in this week's peanut gallery. | |||
That sounds like a good idea. The page would look much more compact and neat, and people can comment as much as they want without people complaining about the length. | |||
Edit conflictx5 thank youz Collapsing the Gallery will hide it from view, but it will still cause the same loading lags. Not to mention that the dumbness will still be around even if we're unable to see it. I say we close the Peanut Gallery. | |||
1stclasswarrior - Meus vita , meus diligo , meus lily of sanctimonia... TALK - 16:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ||||||||||||||||
| -- | ||||||||||||||||
| Eric Ryan Jones, Master Black Mage — 18:54, 25 June 2009 (UTC) | ||||||||||||||||
| Never turn something like this into a vote. It's like court cases. You don't want a majority; you want an agreement. Oh, and I agree with hiding it. | ||||||||||||||||
| -- | ||||||||||||||||
I know I'm probably not one to talk but I have to agree with Fae. It isn't needed. Most people with something to say, say it in their vote. Everyone else just ends up bitching. | |||
NeoBahamutZEROX -  Every time a petal falls a young life is taken by lady Death hands... TALK - No time given! | |||
I think the Peanut Gallery is just pointless. All it for is pointless fanboy/girl wars. And I am tried of see this pointless argument over nothing. | |||
No, you definately are not one to talk. And I like being able to post my opinion, even if it's perceived as "pointless." As a general rule, the internet itself is pointless. If you want to eliminate pointlessness, you may as well petition for the closing of the Wiki. I say, if we're going to do anything, we should do a show/hide box. However, I think it's better for people to just take the length of the Peanut Gallery into consideration in the future. Both normal members, &--I can't believe I'm suggesting this--possibly tighter moderation. As to why I don't comment in my vote, that's because my vote would be FUCKING HUGE, & full of superfluous information. | |||
Why is it that you feel the need to target me? I wasn't talking to you. Is it because you feel I was trying to shatter your ego? If that is how you feel, I am sorry, your ego just got in the way. And how are you any more permitted to speak: You start discussions and then perpetuate the farce that you were the one trying to stop it. | |||
I was irritated that you could participate in such a massive flame war, then turn around & talk about comments being pointless bitching. I'm not qualified to talk about pointless bitching, which is why I didn't. I wasn't targeting you, that preaching-but-not-practicing just pissed me off. As for your other complaints, this is neither the time nor the place. I didn't mean to poke the Werefang, I was just irritated. Sorry. | |||
I'd like to point out that my responses in the peanut gallery are responses to pointless bitching, which I find to be particularly unproductive. If you want to put an oppinion into the DNC, leave it in the votes. As for "preaching-but-not-practicing," you already know my observations on that. But in the end, no one cares about what is in the peanut gallery; those who are not bitching about the vote, are just bitching about other comments. | |||
Support the Show/Hide box. If the pointless arguing gets too long, just dump everything here. Werefang, Neo, please just let the issue die. I don't care who started it/trolled/provoked, whatever, just stop it. | |||
NeoBahamutZEROX - Every time a petal falls a young life is taken by lady Death hands... TALK - No time given! | |||
Don't make the same mistake I've done. Keep arguing with the same user, over something completely stupid. | |||
Look, a good amount of us have been there, and a few of us still are (*BlueLionheart points gun at A11's head*) UM, BUT I'M NOT MENTIONING NAMES! Eventually you two will learn to live with eachother, just give it a couple of months. | |||
|
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Good point. FYI, I think the amount of work a show/hide table would require [from someone else] really isn't worth the effort. If you don't want to read the Peanut Gallery, then...don't read it? | |||
The issue has nothing to do with reading the peanut gallery. People don't even want to see it at all. That is what the issue is. | |||
Then don't look at it. Same general idea. | |||
That doesn't change the fact that it is still in the way. As long as it exists, people will see it, whether they want to or not. | |||
Don't. Scroll. Down. | |||
Except you have to scroll down to see other fights. You know, like this week there are three separate fights. | |||
Well, then, tough titty. Honestly, it's sort of prickish to ask for the Peanut Gallery to be closed, or for the mods to work on some kind of a show/hide table just because you "don't want to see it." I say this: Either deal with it or fuck off, but don't whine about it, because it's really not that big of a deal. | |||
The.Dreadnought - "Who controls the present, commands the past. Who commands the past, conquers the future." TALK - Kane, Command & Conquer; I add: "and to control the present, don't play as the Brotherhood of Nod." Time - 16:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC). AC Walkthrough * The Thoughts of Kefka * C&C Wiki * The Other Dreadnought (C&C) * C&C Wiki: Main Page * My answer to the Cannon Superstructure | |||
Look, if seeing it is the issue, then hide the goddamned peanut gallery. A reminder to consider the length of the peanut gallery would help; people need to get some fucking common sense: if the discussion is getting long, move it somewhere else and stop annoying other people who aren't involved. I don't see a problem with keeping it as it is, though; it really isn't that hard to scroll past the gallery without reading it, you just stop when you see a picture. If it must be changed, show/hide it. NB is right: deal with it. (That's really the only way to say it. Not trying to be rude or anything.) | |||
Re-nominating
If a suggestion is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back in the archives, and has had lots of compliments on how it might get put in the DNC, can we re-nominate it? Because a lot are just looked over. Period. No one reads the old ones. T_T
Logo contest
Alexalibur - As long the heart is Fighting,the body will never know defeat! TALK - 17:46 12 October 2009 (UTC) | |||
Should anyone makes a contest for a new logo for the Colosseum, cuz the used logo is dated IMO | |||
Template:ILHI
Alexalibur - As long the heart is Fighting,the body will never know defeat! TALK - 19:55 13 October 2009 (UTC) | |||
Not really what i meant, the style is somewhat classic, putting random characters in random places. there must be some creating in the logo. I really respect who made the image, but IMO. | |||
Where is the new fight?
Where is the new fight? It has been over a week. Same with featured image. | |||
Re: New fight?
Its usually late, just gotta wait (you shoulda asked this in the peanut gallery Leave the feature image its good, it deserves a few extra weeks--Flaremmm 22:48, October 23, 2009 (UTC)
I don't mean to be rude, but I do have to point out that this is a big reason for the Peanut Gallery becoming so inflamed. The fights go over, get stagnant, & people get bored, so they don't have a whole Hell of a lot to do, besides continuing to carry on side conversations. | |||
|
|
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
That's rather unfair. It's not as though people search this place up for things that can be edited. Most likely, they change things when they see them. Now, if someone knows that a page DOES need changed, they could--y'know--do that? | |||
So basically what you're saying is that outta spite you refused to change the DNC battle? It isn't fair to keep everyone waiting because you think some people aren't contributing.. Isn't that power abuse? :\ | |||
I don't think that's what he's saying. I think he's saying that the time could be better spent. However, as I noted, that sort of "optimum efficiency" view is a bit unrealistic. I just edited a few articles I was watching (mostly for grammar) and followed a link or 2, but I'm limited by both my awareness & my knowledge. For example, in the Arachnero article, I could not describe the "flame stream" attack, because I do not remember it. I can see that a description is needed, but there's nothing I can do about it. Also, I'm not really sure if that constitutes power abuse. I'm unaware of anything that says it's TA's duty to change the DNC every week on the week, or that the DNC should exist in the first place. Now, whether or not they should be changed in a more timely fashion, I'd say, "Yes." If there are problems meeting the deadline, it can always be raised to 2 weeks. | |||
I pretty much got carried away :[ | |||
It happens. | |||
"It's not as though people search this place up for things that can be edited."
Isn't that the point of this wiki? To create and edit articles about the FF series? I, and the people who created the other 11,000+ articles on this wiki are certainly searching and updating. "Now, if someone knows that a page DOES need changed, they could--y'know--do that?" The top of Special:RecentChanges has links to things you can do. There's the To-do list on the side bar. Special:SpecialPages has maintenance tasks, while Category:Final Fantasy Wiki lists a whole bunch of articles to be expanded, cleaned up and given images. Finally, Category:Stubs is linked to from your welcome template. I do understand that people may not have the time to edit articles (like TA now), but "I don't know what to edit" is not a good excuse. | |||
No, it's a great excuse. I've gotta be blunt: It is not my job to edit this place. I have real life obligations that I need to fulfill. I'm not going to spend my time looking up random articles that need to be edited. This is why I stick mainly to the topics I watch, whether they be the pseudo-forum topics like the DNC, plot-based topics like the Jenova Project, or whatever. Now, if I were a staff member, it'd be a different story. But I'm not. I'm just some jackass who occasionally looks things up here, & tries to fill in pages where he can, which honestly isn't much, as part of an unwritten deal. I also haven't been editing in part because every time I try to edit a large page, my computer freezes up, but that's really all beside the point. This whole thing is pretty beside the point. "Go edit" was kind of a dodge to the fact that you can't very well expect the comments to be small if you leave them up for like a month. Why should I need an excuse? This whole argument doesn't address what was brought up in the first place. | |||
You have real life obligations, fine: that fits under "I don't have the time". That's not "I don't know where to edit", which was what I was answering. It seems that at least once a month we have someone complain that they can't edit because of the "I don't know where" or "there's nothing to update" reason, both of which completely wrong. This is not about having an excuse, it's about firmly debunking these stupid beliefs that people have about editing on this wiki. The DNC was, and should still be, a side thing to actual editing. TA's comment isn't addressing the update issue, but your comment about why people post side-conversations in the Peanut Gallery.
Personally, I wouldn't mind if the entire DNC was completely scrapped. | |||
Rather than continue a pointless argument, I'm going to go edit something. Yes, that was a cheeky comment. You still get an edit out of it. Be happy. | |||
Uppfinnarn TALK SITE ANIME LIST MANGA LIST - 20:09, November 27, 2009 (UTC) *beep* The Number you have called is no longer available. Leave a message after the tone, and you'll find your house in an ocean of fire. —Nagi, Hayate no Gotoku! | |||
Two suggestions:
| |||
Suggestions...
Uppfinnarn TALK SITE ANIME LIST MANGA LIST - 20:09, November 27, 2009 (UTC) *beep* The Number you have called is no longer available. Leave a message after the tone, and you'll find your house in an ocean of fire. —Nagi, Hayate no Gotoku! | |||
Two suggestions:
| |||
Archives
Those who look at the move log may be curious as to why so many Archive pages were moved about. Simple reason, not sure how but before the current Nomination page as we know it was created, this talk page was used as the Nomination page, and somehow when the current Nomination page and its archives were made, actual talk for the DNC were moved as well. Bottom lime, "Nomination/Archive 1" was actually talk page talk, same with Archive 2. Thus, those two are now talk page archives, and "Nomination/Archive 3" has been moved to Archive 1, Archive 4 to Archive 2, 5 to 3, and so forth. Doreiku Kuroofangu 04:27, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
Tie?!
How is 54 a tie with 51.5? That doesn't even make sense. ShirubaKurono 
23:39, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
- Shut up! It doesn't have to make sense. NeoZEROX
23:41, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
- "Ties may be called if the victor won by a margin of 10% or less."
- There you are. Always been like that. And NZX, don't tell people to shut up. Doreiku Kuroofangu 23:43, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
Just a question: How could votes be counted as 0.5? Kuzlalala 09:36, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
- Anon votes. Doreiku Kuroofangu 09:38, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
Spoonie?
What happened to the multiple-fights special? Uppfinnarn 13:05, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
- It was an April fools gag numbnuts. What do you think happened? Doreiku Kuroofangu 13:25, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Wasn't that a little bit overkill? Like, srsly? SilverCrono (Talk) 13:37, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Not with the mood I'm in. When I'm less pissed-off I'll apologize. For now, don't give a shit. Doreiku Kuroofangu 13:40, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
- At least you didn't have to call me Numbnuts... There's a rule against insulting people somewhere! Uppfinnarn 13:49, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, that was uncalled for. But this isn't about me, so I'll let you two work this out. Kiss and make up now! XD SilverCrono (Talk) 14:12, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
- At least you didn't have to call me Numbnuts... There's a rule against insulting people somewhere! Uppfinnarn 13:49, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Not with the mood I'm in. When I'm less pissed-off I'll apologize. For now, don't give a shit. Doreiku Kuroofangu 13:40, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Wasn't that a little bit overkill? Like, srsly? SilverCrono (Talk) 13:37, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry Upp. But yeah, it was just April Fools, one-day only. Doreiku Kuroofangu 16:19, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
New template?
I created a template for those who FAIL to sign their votes:
|
Unsigned vote! |
| You have failed to sign your vote in the Dragon's Neck Colosseum with "~~~~". As a result, your current vote has been removed. Please review the rules before attempting to participate in DNC fights.
Thank you. |
Should we use it?
Jeffrey o
r SSFF6B 04:14, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps if it is a highly repeated error. As is, simply removing the votes suffices. Likeacupcake 04:29, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
- Well, this template informs them clearly why it's been removed, so it makes sense to give them this on their first offence. Later offences can just be removed. On a related note, signing with four tildes adds the timestamp, so technically if it's signed but not timestamped it should still be removed, as the rules clearly say it has to be four tildes, not just three -- Sorceror Nobody 13:19, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
So... are you guys just gonna look into the history to find the culprit? Every time? Every fight? KujaRhapsodos 13:39, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
- Surely, we would never need to look at the page history, would we? This template would be placed on the offender's talk page when removing the offending vote, not at some arbitrarily later date -- Sorceror Nobody 13:45, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
- The template is used on someone who didn't sign his vote. So you don't know who voted.... And looking through the history of the DNC seems like time-consumming labor. Did I get this wrong? KujaRhapsodos 13:48, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
- *facepalm and kickself* For completely unsigned votes, we would have to check the history, but it often doesn't take that many backsteps to find it, especially as more than one of us would be removing the unsigned votes, so they are often found quite soon after being added (and without a lot of intervening votes). As for untimestamped ones, no history check would be needed.
- Also, EDIT CONFLICT: The DNC already has these three templates, but I do think it wouldn't hurt to have this one as a lesser 'threat' before proceeding to the existing trio of warnings for repeat offenders -- Sorceror Nobody 13:55, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
- The template is used on someone who didn't sign his vote. So you don't know who voted.... And looking through the history of the DNC seems like time-consumming labor. Did I get this wrong? KujaRhapsodos 13:48, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
DNC - most popular page on Gaming Wikia!
This week anyway... and I assume every week by the amount of people storm it when a new battle's up. Statistics from here. 88.108.97.86 21:49, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
New Fight?
This one's been goin' on for 2 weeks. Kupohunter 14:20, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
Just consider MMII to be the fights for the time being. TA runs this because he wants to, not because he has to, so let him update in his own time. Likeacupcake 14:29, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
- LACC has a point about MMII, but the DNC has always been known for arbitrary scheduling. The phrase "This week's fight" is a serious misnomer. Some places have a more rigid schedule, of course oh, very subtle >_> -- Sorceror Nobody 14:50, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
Use some new material in the fights
I've looked through the archives, and the same characters tend to get used a lot. You've got a lot of games and characters that haven't entered the Colosseum at all. Some I'd like to see-
- FFCC:TCB - Jegran vs some FF villain or FFCC:TCB Amdiadelion Vs some villain-turned-ally if any others exist in the FF world
- Any character from FFXI vs any character from FFXIV
- Race fights between races that haven't been featured yet; Yukes, Gria, Tarutaru, Seeq, to name a few
Tahngarthortalk-contribs 19:26, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
- You are welcome to suggest some fights involving those participants. Ultimately, though, the DNC is a popularity contest, and it is therefore not surprising that popular characters get more than their fair share of attention. Oh, and if you do suggest any fights, don't be disheartened if it gets shot down... even users who are "veterans" of suggesting fights sometimes put forward ones that are less than popular.
- I should warn you that the MMOs are, I think, more disliked than liked by our userbase. Some users hate their very existence in the main series with a passion. You can try suggesting FFXI/XIV fights, but don't be surprised if they are rejected.
- To summarise, if you want to see "new" characters in the DNC, the best chance is to put forward good, strong fights – a solid rationale sometimes helps more than the popularity of the characters. Good luck! : ) -- Sorceror Nobody 19:56, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I understand that, but it seems like it would get stale after the 10th or so Balthier vs Whoever fight. Is there a designated location for suggesting fights?
(edit: I don't really understand the hate of an MMO just because it's an MMO- if people are just hating it on principle of a monthly fee, that's not a very good reason to hate the game itself- Though I see Shantotto weaseled her way in being a Dissidia character) Tahngarthortalk-contribs 20:22, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
- I believe people dislike XI and XIV because they're main series titles when they should really have just been a separate spin off series. As for suggesting fights, head over to this page and suggest away. --Strife95 20:32, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
- I'm still puzzled why people even think the numberings or main/spinoff is even important. What's in a name? With the exception of X and X-2, no numbered final fantasy game is really related to another at all. But I don't really mean to stir debate. Tahngarthortalk-contribs 20:41, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
Coding for the fights
Can someone give me the coding for the fights? like how to organise the pics and the sections?? Leave the codes on my talk page.KayReeed
05:56, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
Terra vs. Vivi
The counter shows 48 to 50, yet, counting anon votes as .5 of a vote, Terra got 50. Wtf happened? --ShirubaKurono 20:56, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
- Anons don't matter to MM II. Master Conjurer 21:39, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
- See my talk page. I know some will disagree, but the rationale is all there. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L 21:47, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
- I read your talk page, TA. I understand, and I apologize for my... less than mature response to the outcome. Thanks for the fights. --ShirubaKurono 21:48, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
- I don't think you need to apologize, but I accept it. I certainly take worse abuse on a regular basis so I didn't really notice it. In any case, what happened here is highly irregular, so I felt it was worth explaining. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L 22:02, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
- I read your talk page, TA. I understand, and I apologize for my... less than mature response to the outcome. Thanks for the fights. --ShirubaKurono
- See my talk page. I know some will disagree, but the rationale is all there. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L 21:47, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
All right. Enough with this. At first, by glancing at the results, I merely thought Vivi had won fair and square. I had no problem with that. Then somebody pointed me to TA's talk page were his mammoth explanation as to why he had elected Vivi as the winner lay. This contained actually very little information: citing past instances of apparent cheating, he disregarded some anon votes on Terra's side. Then, acting upon request (?) of MMII's proponents he declared Vivi the winner, despite the total tally amounting to a tie, according to DNC rules. I was in fact initially mistaken again since I had thought that he had simply disregarded anon votes on both sides. This was not the case: BlueHighwind's messages made me double-check the results of the match whereupon I discovered that indeed some anon votes had been taken into account and counted toward the end result. Apparently, TA thought the "overwhelming" number of anon votes was a clear sign of cheating and arbitrarily disregarded the votes he thought belonged to people using proxies and any other means to constantly switch their IP numbers in order to tip the balance in Terra's favour. There was no other reason for disregarding said votes but his own judgment, a judgment with which, needless to say, I do not agree. (This isn't even taking into account the fact that, apparently, for some reason Vivi won by having 50 votes in his favour. Now I've studied Math a lot more than most users around here, but I can honestly: say I believe it is completely evident that Vivi, according the DNC's own ruleset, could not have had more than a total of 48 votes.) The issue here is the following: by some obscure criterion I was not aware of (an "unwritten rule" according to Jonny) TA is able to disregard votes whenever and however he likes it. It would be futile to ask about this situation: when asked for cooperation on the subject of MMII (or, for that matter, about any other situation pertaining the DNC) he has failed every, single time to give a clear and concise answer. This is a situation I do not agree with at all. Putting aside my obvious dislike for his attitude (because my actions could be easily explained away by alluding my personal feelings towards TA), I'm presenting the previous paragraphs to justify what I'm doing. Hopefully, this will attract the attention of more users who may want to add input to this distasteful hassle. Indeed, attention from other users and staff members is what I want to draw at the moment. | |||
Sorceror Nobody – The supreme nonentity Talk · Flan's Elbow Colosseum · MSPA Wiki · 19:09, December 27, 2010 (UTC) "I can detect matter down to one atom in a vacuum the size of the moon, and apparently, this guy doesn't exist" -- Foaly | |||
I do not really care to outright wade into this, but I will throw in my thoughts from a distance.
As far as I am concerned, it should either use MMII rules or DNC rules in their entirety. More to the point, an arbitrary change in the rules should not occur part way into the fight, and certainly not at the closing of it. As for the rule that anons can make or break ties but may not invert the outcome, that is pure bullshit. As far as I am concerned, if it's not listed in the DNC rules, it is not an official rule. So, then, we have three choices:
It is mildly interesting to note that all three possible outcomes occur exactly once, but that is beside the point. The odd thing is that, for a change, I actually agree with some of TA's reasoning. However, that is not to say I agree with what he did, because I most certainly do not. The simple fact is that for TA to invoke an unwritten rule at the last minute is, in my opinion, not remotely acceptable, and that assuming DNC-rules-minus-ties was the designated ruleset (someone other than TA correct me if I am wrong there), Terra wins. | |||
I've kept out of this, but Fae requested on the IRC that I add my input. Well, unpopular as it is with many here, I agree with TA's logic. The voting system could certainly have been better explained beforehand, but the simple fact is that Vivi would win under MMII rules, and Vivi would win by default under DNC rules (because it would be a draw, and he would therefore retain his crown). The only way that Terra could win would be by creating a hybrid ruleset, and it seems to me that such a ruleset would be created only to assist Terra. Much as you say that TA is biased against Terra and FFVI, remember that many of you are not exactly un-biased in your support of her. I still respect TA's authority and reasoning. I respect all of your opinions, and I ask that you respect mine. | |||
MM2 was run by Drake and by BlueHighwind, with admin supervision by Faethin. As such, they are the only ones to have a say as to the ruleset to be used. The championship fight was held in the DNC, TA's domain, so obviously a fight was to be expected, due to the very different rules. However, I clearly remember Drake stating that, for that particular fight, the DNC usual rules would be used. In this case: anon votes would count for half a vote and a draw could be called. As everyone already saw several times, TA either willfully doesn't answer to questions, has an inability to answer questions clearly (?), or is downright dishonest. The history of his talk page over the last few months attests to that. I wasn't on the wiki when TA became an administrator, but I'm sure he deserved it. However, from everything that has happened recently (DNC schedule, MM2 championship, failure to answer satisfactorily, etc.), I think it's time for something to be done. Maybe not something as harsh as stripping him of his status, but at least something that will rectify the situation with the DNC (as it is the only thing TA does nowadays). (I'll let Diablo and the other admins decide what should be done.) Now, in response to this, TA will surely do as he always does:
| |||
BlueHighwind Q? 19:26, December 27, 2010 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
I still say Refia actually won. | |||
Support 100%. TA has always been impossible to speak to with the DNC, but he has been hardcore against MM2 right from the start, and even now considers it an "unofficial" project and has targeted me as the one to blame for it. We politely asked TA if we could hold the MM2 finals in the DNC like the first one, and he adamantly refused. We had to go to emailing Diablo to get him to agree. Now, I still have in my inbox an email from Diablo which states that all standard DNC rules are to be followed, and TA has said this himself twice on his talk page. The only rule I recall we asked to be disregarded was the rulings on ties because obviously for this fight we all wanted a clear winner. Now if we do use the tie rules to declare the match a tie, then it is a tie - Vivi is not "defending" his title, he is MM1 champ as Terra is MM2 champ, so he does not win in the event of a tie, no one ever agreed to that rule. Besides, by that logic he failed to be Terra for her own champion title, so Terra wins by virtue of not being beaten. A tie would be a much more fair and logical result than twisting the rules to make Vivi the victor.
Now, consider TA's actions and his true motivations should be obvious - his explanation for his decision once again singles me out by name and indicates his complete opposition to MM2 as an "unofficial" project run by a few members. In actuality it was run by myself, Faethin and Blue Highwind, two Mods and an Admin. Now consider TA's antagonistic relationship with all three of us, relationships with long histories - I'm sure everyone knows how me and BH are with the DNC, and he once banned Faethin over a talk bubble image. And everyone knows Fae and I adore Terra, while TA loves Vivi and hates of FF6. And of course we cannot forget his touching little Metallica send-off "be careful what you wish you may regret it. Be careful what you wish you just might get it." Are these the words of someone who has made a careful and unbiased decision, or the words of someone who has acted to spite his enemies by twisting the rules? As for these accusations of cheating in anon votes, I've yet to see any proof. Anon users come in every single match to vote, frequently different IPs to the point a lot of the anon contributions from the links in the DNC votes show only one or two contributions. And of course new accounts are made all the time that don't do much besides participate in the DNC. If we're going to begin discounting votes for suspected cheating then we might as well completely abolish the anon votes and ban at least a dozen users now. That aside, this "unwritten rules" about not allowing anons to vote simply makes no sense - if anon votes are to be discounted whenever they could influence the result, why even bother letting anons vote at all? No, if anons are allowed to vote their votes should be counted same as everyone elses, no unfair "unwritten" rule that they can be discounted if TA thinks there's too many of them. BTW, "unwritten" rule to me is code for "rule that was just made up now" because no one has ever heard of it before this. Besides that, TA's arrogance is incredible beyond words. He repeatedly and consistently lets the DNC's schedule slip for no reason other than his own admission he doesn't consider it important. Prior to the MM2 match, the Moogle fight was over a month old. Besides that when he does post fights anymore he does it very sloppily - case of point this fight with Oerba Yun Fang from "FF14" where he can't even bother to put a description in the box. He repeatedly opposed MM2 and even now considers it my own personal unofficial project. TA is to the point he does what he wants with complete and utter confidence he can because nothing will be done about it. Well, no more - this isn't just MM2, this is the DNC as well because this isn't the first time TA has tampered with votes there and you know it won't be the last. It's time we take a stand. | |||
To sum it up quite simply, there's been an abuse of power here. Drake, Blue and Fae were in charge of the tournament, and the DNC was simply housing the final. TA shouldn't have had any say in the result, let alone decide it by conjuring up some imaginary voting system in order to engineer the vote in his (obvious) favour. It was never TA's place to judge the integrity of votes either. As for his 'reasoning', it seems like a rather desperate, nonsensical attempt at an excuse. There should be no need for explanation to the ruling, and if any, it should only be one of the sentences that SN wrote in his response. To be honest, I expected a little better from an admin. Considering this kind of behaviour seems frequent with him, I'll admit I'm curious as to why he's even in such a position, especially when the DNC - his primary role here - remains neglected, and any other time he has been reached for help (for one, I can cite the time I had a bunch of unidentified XI images the wiki needed, and the request for help from the 'XI Expert' went ignored) has seen similar treatment. Do I care massively about the outcome of MMII? No, I don't. I just don't think how it went down was acceptable. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 22:00, December 27, 2010 (UTC) | |||
The only part of TA's explanation that I find dubious is: Since the administrator of the DNC has never let the tally be switched from victory from one side to the other based on anonymous votes, only to define the margins of error or to push a fight in or out of a draw. I believe TA has been quietly enforcing this rule in the DNC for a while now, because I recall several fights where a large amount of anonymous votes were removed, resulting in a swap in total vote lead. If this judgment is based on suspicious of anonymous cheating, then it is within TA's jurisdiction to enforce it. However, when TA declared Vivi as champion, he did not bother to remove some of Terra's anonymous votes, prompting me to wonder if I forgot how to do math until I realized Terra's total of 50 was considered less than Vivi's 48 based on number of registered user votes. Before I go any further, I will say that I don't care if Terra or Vivi wins this bout. I think the issue is whether the italicized explanation is considered acceptable or not. It makes no sense to even count anonymous votes if they can be considered void in certain situations (i.e. not when they are stacked up illegitimately in the interest of cheating). If the contender with the higher amount of registered votes wins, there is no point in having more anonymous votes to increase that margin, with one exception. That exception is when the margin of registered votes is low enough to allow a tie to be declared, and anonymous votes can increase that margin to avoid the 10% rule tie. However, the administrators of MMII decided to ignore the 10% rule. If TA wanted to enforce the entirety of the DNC rules, he should have called this match a tie, but he explains: In the case of a defending champion in any existing sport, and indeed this tradition is one spawned out of sanity, the champion gets to keep his crown. If you would prefer a semantic change to say the fight is a draw and Vivi remains champion, I am agreeable to that. I don't want to get into semantics, so this makes sense. The issue then goes back to whether anon votes really matter or not. No one has brought the validity of the rule up in the past; to complain about the its fairness now in order to change to outcome of Vivi vs. Terra is rather futile. I suppose one could challenge this rule now and reverse the results; indeed, this has already been done by a MMII administrator. This "anon switch" rule needs be explicitly stated on the DNC page for future reference, or even better, be removed. Anon votes should only be removed if there is suspicion of sockpuppeting, the confirmation of which should be stated explicitly by the administrator for everyone else to see. Disregarding all anon votes in favor of whoever has more registered votes reduces anonymous voters to mere tiebreakers, and I feel this is counterproductive to even allowing anon votes. I am also interested to know what TA's explanation is for when anon votes would factor into the 10% tie rule. There needs to be more clarity. Apologies for the lengthiness of this post - If nothing else, I hope it suggests some improvements for the DNC. | |||
There's not a huge amount for me to say that hasn't already been said by others (I may be repeating others' arguments, but these are things that much be stressed), and though I was not hugely involved with MMII, I do feel that something is rather amiss. TA insisted adamantly upon anonymous votes; however, he then disregards them because of cheating. While cheating is always a possibility, one should confirm the cheating before deciding that all of the votes are corrupt. Additionally, the general Dragon Neck's Coliseum does not seem to do this when there are always several anons who vote upon nothing else, as well as several users who join simply to vote. I believe at the least we should look into the anon votes during the finals to see if actually cheating is underfoot and then use all the anon votes that are legitimate. | |||
I have two big problems with this, and before I start, let me be clear that I supported Vivi through this entire fight, and still do. However, I disagree vehemently with the way he won. I have two problems with this. First of all, anon votes. It was specified twice (three times, according to Fae) that all the normal rules would apply. This includes anon votes, yes? Why did these votes not count? Which brings me to my second issue. Anon votes in general. According to the rules, anon votes count for half a vote. This is easy enough to understand. However, according to this rule that I have never seen stated anywhere before, least of all the rules, the purpose of anon votes is purely to reflect normal votes or to break ties. So, what you are saying, is, "Your vote only matters if there's a tie. Otherwise, you'll just sit there and look pretty." Way to respect those who visit our site. Really. There are three sensible ways to handle this, as labeled above:
| |||
Deadlyslashsword - +It takes disaster to learn a lesson, but you're going to make it through the darkest nights+ TALK - 05:34, December 28, 2010 (UTC) - Some people betray and cause treason...we're gonna make everything alright. | |||
I echo the sentiments of pretty much everyone who has posted above me. As soon as it was decided that this fight would take place in the DNC, warning bells should have been going off. Tradition is all well and good, but knowing TA’s track record, it could have been easily foreseen that there would be some problems. My biggest issue here is the switching of the rules. I have never seen this rule where the anon votes are discounted because they are merely disproportional; not once have I seen it put into effect. Now, I do submit that TA was well within his rights to suspect cheating going on, however, if that was his suspicion, he should have done an IP check on the votes in question, and if not that at least check the IPs’ contributions. However, this was not done. TA didn’t even bother to remove the votes he thought were in violation of the rules; he just simply left them there, further confusing us all. Now, a quick check of the IPs’ contributions was done by BSU, and it was found out that all of the IPs voting for Terra had their first contribution to the wiki doing so. Do I find this dubious? Not in the slightest. Taking into account both the amount of traffic this wiki receives, and, as in the case of JBed, the chance of having a fluctuating IP, I don’t believe it to be beyond the realm of possibility that the anon voters were either all new, returning anons with fluctuating IPs, or a combination of the two. However, the fact remains that TA didn’t check into the IPs himself and merely went with a hunch, invoking a new rule. It leaves one to wonder, why exactly, if it had been agreed upon that the rules of the DNC were used, then why discount the votes? Do we have a problem with anon voters? Is it not okay for them, the anonymous who greatly outnumber us registered users, to decide the outcome of a fight every once in awhile? Are we biased against them? We shouldn’t be. TA discounting anon votes is giving off this exact vibe, and it’s bad for our overall image. On the topic of the fight itself, I just want it to be known that I don’t care who wins, since I was vehemently opposed to this fight occurring in the first place since I thought Vivi shouldn’t have been included in MM2 in any capacity. Still, there is no “title to defend.” Vivi won MM1, Terra won MM2, and this bonus fight was just for fun (or, at least it was supposed to be). On the whole, I find TA’s actions extremely suspicious. In addition to evidence provided by Fae’s links, TA has proven that cannot be relied upon for the simplest of tasks (updating the DNC once a week), or to give clear, concise, and hasty replies on his talk page. The majority of his replies are needlessly lengthy and verbose, using language that most of us have trouble understanding, and even those of us that do understand it still have to pick his words apart to find his meaning, if there is one. Most times I find he uses his vocabulary as a shield to protect himself from facing the issues that many users have had with him for the past few weeks. I don’t know how he received his admin rights (was it during the days when CSM handed them out like candy?), but I am of the mind that he is quickly proving the fact that he isn’t much deserving of them. However, I don’t like to keep things all negative, so I will add that he is a good artist. That is all. :3 | |||
From my own eyes I saw Vivi win and my first reaction when I counted the scores myself is...what the heck?! Next thinking comes to my mind is why. Anyways, while I do not know TA as much as everyone else on this site, I can see why everyone is put off by him. I'm stunned by how poorly TA handled this from start to finish (mostly finish). While TA gave a reasoning for his actions, when I think about it. If HE WAS REALLY INTENT on NOT USING ANNON VOTES, he would have never placed them in the first place. I don't care it's in the DNC. If you're not going to use Annon votes, you're either Lazy or you're hoping that it will help Vivi win the MMII tournament. I think he was expecting the annon votes to help Vivi and it backfired! So in the end he states his reasoning, while I grant it was fairly solid. The fact is TA made this decision ALONE! In other words TA likes the final word in the saying. And because of "HIS DECISION" to allow Vivi to win. AND YET USE THE EXCUSE OF ANNON VOTES CHEATING. Just shows how HYPOCRITICAL he is. Sorry but that's really what it looks like to me. | |||
DoorToNothing - You do not yet know... what lies beyond the door. TALK - Remember, you are the one who will open the door to the light. | |||
Since I have not frequented the Final Fantasy Wiki as more than a WikiGnome and participant of Magicite Madness II, I cannot express any accounts from far back memory of TacticAngel's actions on the wiki. However, what I can observe from the short time that I have been frequently watching over this wiki during Magicite Madness II is that TacticAngel has been a problem for the wiki in three manners:
As the leader of the Dragon's Neck Colosseum, TacticAngel has an incredibly large responsibility on the wiki. However, it can certainly be done. There are over fifteen active user arenas on the wiki, most of which are being run by a single user handling votes, suggestions, and formatting. If about fifteen individual users can do this, why can TacticAngel not? Now, TacticAngel is human; if something has occurred in his life that is physically, mentally, or technologically affecting his accessibility to a computer to update the Dragon's Neck Colosseum, we should respect that. However, so should TacticAngel. TacticAngel should, as an administrator of a gaming wiki as large, old, and comprehensive as the Final Fantasy Wiki, relinquish the keys to the Dragon's Neck Colosseum Executive Office, to better the wiki and the arena. Furthermore, TacticAngel has confirmed for us there is no issue preventing him from updating, other than his laziness. As long as TacticAngel is in control, it can only be predicted that the arena shall continue to be updated less and create more issues with leadership on the wiki. An administrator is rewarded for his work on the wiki with additional abilities, designed to assist an active user do work to benefit the wiki. Before I go any further in this statement, I do not believe TacticAngel, or any administrator/moderator for that matter, should have their status as a staff member relinquished. Although he certainly does not do work to the high degree that he formerly did, TacticAngel did an incredible amount of work for the wiki when it was truly needed. TacticAngel deserves to be honored for that work, especially with his role as an administrator of the wiki. It would be nice if TacticAngel used his abilities for their true purpose, but I believe that taking this away from him is ignorant of the work that he did do. No matter how badly a staff member messes up, they must be honored for the work they did to deserve their title. Now on the negative side of this card, TacticAngel is not acting to best represent the Final Fantasy Wiki. A wiki is based on the cooperation of multiple persons to create the most comprehensive database possible, and also may seek to provide an enriching editing experience for the "workforce." TacticAngel refuses to work with others, having refused a need for assistance or a co-leader of the Dragon's Neck Colosseum. This goes directly against the basis on which any wiki is founded upon. Now and here, this issue has transcended itself into Magicite Madness II, with TacticAngel's inability to work with others, due to his own accord of not attempting to assist or work with others and their ideas, creating this issue. TacticAngel refused to change from any ideals except for his, which he even imposed on the wiki by adding a rule last-minute, with no consent of any other users. Even in the planning of this match, TacticAngel refused to realize what many users were telling him, instead posting long messages that only crafted more tension, with no aim to resolve the problem or compromise. TacticAngel's goal in these messages was not to help other users or settle the issue, but seemingly was instead to confuse his opponent(s) to a degree of ending the conversation in his favor or to awkwardly explain points to avoid the question. Lastly, there was something I noticed in the Dragon's Neck Colosseum rules that has been ignored about the tie rule that applies to this situation: Notice that with this rule, it does not say that a tie will be called, but only that it is an option. How does one decide whether or not to do this? Apparently, TacticAngel decides, and every time has decided to call ties, sometimes by removing anonymous votes. TacticAngel has not allowed the community any option in decided whether a tie should be called on a match, symbolic of his tyranny over the Dragon's Neck Colosseum and inability to allow other users to assist him or give their opinions on how things should be run. However, this also means that TacticAngel followed all of the rules of the Dragon's Neck Colosseum, even though he did not call a tie. We have for too long interpreted this rule as meaning a tie will be called, but that evidently is not what it means at all. I believe that the original arrangement should be honored. Magicite Madness II was the event here, the Dragon's Neck Colosseum was simply a page to post the fight. To create an allegory of this, imagine a present. This is the present that everyone wants for Christmas, but can be put in different boxes that the giver chooses between. What is more important: the event everyone has been waiting for for four months, or where it is held? What dictates whether or not the recipient of the gift will enjoy it: the gift, or the box it is in? Since this was Magicite Madness II, I believe that Faethin, Drake Clawfang, and BlueHighwind have the right to decide the outcome of this match. I'm a supporter of Vivi, and though I'm not exactly Terra's biggest fan, I still see how she could have won. A wiki is important both in its readers and editing community, and the results reflect that, and if this was the agreement between the directors of the Magicite Madness II and TacticAngel, to use Dragon's Neck Colosseum rules and regulations, than that should be honored. However, what was used was not DNC rules. Instead, TacticAngel's rules were used, which almost none of us but TacticAngel himself agree with using. However, as per the clause in the rules that states "may", the way this match ends in regards to rules should be decided by the community... However, is that not what we just tried to do in this match, but TacticAngel ruined? | |||
Unlike the majority, it seems, I follow TA's logic in the rationale he posted, including the part about being the defending champion. It may not have been the most desirable result from everyone's perspective, but I can see why he chose it. However, I do think it was chosen quite out of the blue. Partly this was due to the muddled planning of the final match - it was not made clear which rules would be chosen, and now any advocation for whichever (non)-hybrid set carries an unsavoury implication of bias towards either winner. Furthermore, who had the "authority" over the final match was left unclear to most people. In short, I don't have any qualms with the decision itself, but the way it occurred was unfortunate and could have been avoided.
On a side note, I believe TA is quite correct in noting that whatever decision he might have made on the match's outcome, there would have been a fuss from someone. To stop it from worsening, I ask that we stop the blatant personal attacks: they're not helping anyone's side, and won't be tolerated. At the end of the day, I simply hope everyone enjoyed the competition, and did happier things on Christmas. Perhaps you might chalk it down to me not being emotionally invested in this competition at all, and so either result would satisfy me. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 18:03, December 28, 2010 (UTC) | |||
I'd like to reiterate one of Yuan's points - this is an issue of what rules were used, not TA's track record. It doesn't matter whether we agree with TA's rules because it was agreed that DNC rules were to be used by the MMII administrators. We can suggest a change in these DNC rules for the future, but no one seemed to have a problem with them while the tournament was ongoing. | |||
I'm sorry, but I disagree completely with the both of you, San-San and 8bit. TA's "logic" was no logic at all but a completely arbitrary move on his part: the disregard of anon votes, because they tipped the balance of the match in favour of one of the contenders, by means of an "unwritten rule" in which he weeded out votes as he pleased. Nothing more, nothing less. It actually all boils down what set of rules we should have used, indeed; and indeed we should have defined clearly this matter before having done anything at all. Here's the problem though: TA always (and I mean that word in the strict sense) makes it extremely cumbersome, if not impossible, to discuss an issue pertaining the DNC. I beg you two to have a look at the links I provided (the ones that take you to various sections of his talk page) and see for yourselves how every single question either Drake, BH or myself made was met with an ambiguous, smug or nonsensical reply on his part. The fuss you mention, San-San, and that TA predicted, was made only, only because he acted in a manner that he was perfectly aware would cause controversy; he even states said awareness on his explanation. If the set of rules had been laid down (a thing which, as I have mentioned, was completely impossible because of his stubborness) there would have been no valid reason for fussing about the result. Now, this whole thing I began had as objective to draw the attention of users to the poorly-handed outcome of the match thereby showing how utterly screwed up TA's record is. So, 8bit, this issue is as much as what rules we should've used as how poor his record is. While personal attacks should, of course, not be rule, I clearly state the following: these cannot be regarded as unprovoked and intolerable given the fact that TA himself walks into them by being a smug prick bent on making everyone believe he's smarter than them all the time. | |||
Really, the entire thing could have been avoided if you'd just stuck the rules you were following on the DNC page while the match was going on. I still can't figure out which rules were supposed to be followed initially, going by TA's talk page, overheard IRC conversations, and the Peanut Gallery. Most users wouldn't even be aware of the second, so how would they know what the rules were? I say there would be a fuss whichever way TA chose because no one was clear on the rules, and thus would call foulplay if the decision was one they disliked, or surprised them. | |||
Agreed Yuan, it was unclear which rules we were using. But who's fault is that then, hm?
| |||
I think this is a really easy decision.
1. All rules count.
2. Oh look, it would be a tie, we can't call a tie, therefore ->
3. We take out the 10% tie whatever rule.
4. Terra wins.
I know my word doesn't mean anything, but I agree that TA should not continue his duty here. 
23:52, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
MirrorshardSceada — 00:03, December 29, 2010 (UTC) "You used to be too broken to talk back." Vanitas, Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep A l'Cie's Diary - FFTA2 Walkthrough - Lindblum Tourism Office http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z411/Sceada/kafrahead_15px.png | |||
If you ask it that way Drake, then your's and BlueHighwind's. You two are the organisators of this tourney, and so it is you guys who are ultimately responisble for it's execution, and thus, also for the tourney's rule. If they are unclear, it is up to you to clarify that all. | |||
... To be blunt, read into this a little more Scaeda. Then you will realize the epic fail of what your comment just was. | |||
"If you ask it that way Drake, then your's and BlueHighwind's. You two are the organisators of this tourney, and so it is you guys who are ultimately responisble for it's execution, and thus, also for the tourney's rule. If they are unclear, it is up to you to clarify that all." - obviously you've never tried speaking to Tactic Angel. We tried to clarify things when him, we tried to discuss with him, it never works because he either doesn't reply or replies in such a way as to be confusing. We bent over backwards to get the fight into the DNC as it was, and one of the conditions for that was that we use TA's DNC rules, but any discussion we tried to have with him over this ended in failure. Go click Fae's links to TA's talk page and comment again once you know what he's like.
| |||
Master Conjurer — (talk) 00:38, December 29, 2010 (UTC) | |||
I have a wonderful idea. Redo the fight in the MM2 space, with MM2 rules. | |||
BlueHighwind Q? 03:07, December 29, 2010 (UTC) TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ: | |||
I fold. I think TA is right, I don't think Terra won by any ruleset, so that's that. According to MMII rules - THE ONLY RULES WE SHOULD HAVE USED IN THE FIRST PLACE - she lost, according to DNC rules its a draw. I hate how we're in some stupid horrible little grey area, I hate how this wiki manages to make everything massively complicated when it should be simple, I hate that I had to share this competition with Drake Clawfang and TacticAngel. Why did this need to be a three-man operation anyway? Its stupid. Problems like this are bound to happen when three people are involved, especially when one is TA who is impossible to talk to. The whole thing is stupid, and it isn't fun anymore. Drakey, Faethin, you can keep up the idiocy, I'm done. So in my power as Co-Creator of MMII I say Vivi wins. Can we all shut up now? PS: Refia really won. | |||
|
|
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||