DNC Logo Idear.jpg


Uwee hee hee hee! Welcome, editors, to the Dragon's Neck Colosseum! My name is Ultros the receptionist, and each week I'm taking bets as to who will win in a tussle between two characters from the Final Fantasy series! The winner gets, well, nothing. It's more of a poll, really. The Colosseum owner stuck me on this duty after Kefka was defeated, but I need the money! So what are you waiting for? Get voting! Remember, you can remain anonymous! If you have any requests for future fights, please feel free to leave a message here.

The Rules, Briefly

Functionally, this is a popularity contest. You may vote for your favorite or who you think would win in an competition between the two combatants that week.

  • You may vote only once.
  • If you are a user, please include your vote in the user section.
  • If you are not a user, please include your vote in the anonymous section.
  • To vote, leave the following "#~~~~" and you are required to leave this whether you are logged in or anonymous.
  • If you wish to comment on the fight, please leave your remarks in the peanut gallery. You are expected to conduct yourself with courtesy. Comments must relate to the fight at hand.
  • Do not alter the format of this page.

Any failure to adhere to these rules will result in your vote(s) being removed. Ties may be called if the victor won by a margin of 10% or less.

Week 133: Professor Hojo v. Garland

Dochojo.jpg
Dnc v.jpg
WINNER!
Undecided
Inventors of misery square off in a battle royale no doubt fought at least in part by proxy. WINNER!
Undecided

Votes for Hojo

  1. This is the mad scientist I know most about, plus he's pretty damn successful --Flaremmm 02:23, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
  2. No matter how much I hate him for killing Vincent, I don't know who the other guy is. So, it'll have to be Hojo :)--NerdYO 05:21, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
  3. SWEET!!! My Idea Got into The Colosseum!!! Gotta be Hojo though he is responsable for so many of the best character being as cool as they are. Spehiroth, Cloud, Zack, Vincent, Weiss, the List goes on --RedMageSOLDIER 05:28, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
  4. This is hard. I think Hojo's more of a bastard, so I'm gonna vote for him. Violetmage♥ 05:30, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
  5. Garland was really just acting in the best interest of the Terran Genomes. Hojo's insanity and cruelty was all his. (And not even death stopped him from his schemes.) -- 76.105.208.207 05:50, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes

Let's see: guy's responsible for two generations of screwing people over, fathered and experimented on everyone's favourite silver-haired psycho with a track record of arson, murder and world domination; did a stellar job of f**king over Zack and Cloud's lives, in addition to Weiss, Nero, Shelke and the Tsviets in general. Of course, his involvement with the infamous Vincent/Lucrecia mess definitely counts. So what's there to say? He's the villain you love to hate, hate to love, or in abhorring awe of just how many major and secondary characters have been affected by his actions. #70.76.67.169 02:15, October 9, 2009 (UTC) Anon.

  1. Couldn't decide. So I'll vote for the side where people screwed up the formatting less. 198.7.245.93 02:00, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
colspan="3" style="width: 50%; background: #DDDADA; padding: 5px" valign="top"

Votes for Garland

  1. First Vote! Garland was better than Hojo (in my opinion) as he is responsible for both the hero and villain.

also he has a possible crossover I & IX. Leonhart178 01:21, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

  1. Hojo created the hero and villain too remember? but I vote garland cause at least when kuja rebelled garland said hell no and ruined all of kuja's plans in an instant by killing alexander... hojo, crazy badass he was, helped sephiroth and it didn't work Zuken 02:30, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
  2. For creating Kuja, he gets my vote. CheeseNinja 05:50, October 9, 2009 (UTC)


Anonymous Votes

Peanut Gallery

  1. I'm not sure who to blame, the people who suggested this fight or TA for putting it up. Drake Clawfang 01:29, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
My Idea pal, If you don't like it, You might wanna have a look at the suggestions page every once in a while. It was well supported by some of the biggest names in the DNC, and there were a grand total of zero rejections. I'm Okay with people not liking my ideas, you just might wanna get your thoughts in while they still count for something. Just saying --RedMageSOLDIER 05:35, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
"biggest names in the DNC", lol. Big fish in a small pond, comrade. The DNC's been sliding downhill for a while now, I just take this as a sign it's hitting bottom. Drake Clawfang 05:43, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

Oh and could someone fix the formatting of the page. I'd love to, but to be honest, I wouldn't know how and I wouldn't want to get my hand slapped--RedMageSOLDIER 05:35, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

Week 132: Lulu v. Squall

Dnc v.jpg
WINNER!
Squall
60 1/2 to 33
I don't know what sense there is to this fight--I think the suggestion was something like Lulu is all nice and Squall is clueless--but will you take your emo sliced or with a side of milk? WINNER!

Votes for Lulu

  1. Deathcab 19:32, September 27, 2009 Lulu nae bother.
  2. KodokuShizuka 23:48, September 26, 2009 (UTC) The word emo is getting so old. Besides I don't see why every person that's not happy or upbeat are looked at as being emo. I don't know about everyone else but the world would be a horrible place if everyone went around with smiles on their faces.
  3. First vote for Lulu! I like Lulu because she's a female Black Mage, my second favorite Job. TheBlueDragoon 21:32, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
  4. Just how many times am I going to vote on the left-hand side, anyway? Any why am I voting for a Black Mage when I normally support the physical-attack strategy? Oh, right: 1) Doublecast, 2) Flare, 3) Flare Fury, 4) Flare Fury (that was worth mentioning twice.) Oh, I missed something: the edit button to place my vote is farther away from where my mouse cursor is if I want to vote for Squall. Time saved, that's a nice bonus! Damnit, BlueDragoon, I beat you AND Blykus to the Edit button... The.DreadnoughT 21:36, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
  5. If it's not because she's emo, and yet has a slightly better character than Squall, then it's her melons that would win this fight for her :D Boogum 22:01, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
  6. I don't like either of them, but X is a much better game than VIII, so Lulu gets my vote.--StragusLore 22:32, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
  7. I've never played VIII, but then again I've barely played X. However, I already find Lulu to be a hugely interesting character, and I can't wait to work my way into her history. Lulu it is! --KazeNoYouko 00:39, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  8. BlueHighwind : Does she wear panties underneath all those belts? Ponder that while I vote for the mediocre character from the mediocre game over the shitty character from the shitty game.
  9. Lulu fo' sho. Her occassional badassery mixed with her motherlyness makes her awesome. Her Fury is awesome, too. --ShinriS 06:42, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  10. I'd take a smart woman who's not afraid to speak her mind over the embodiment of teenage angst any day. Violetmage♥ 12:45, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  11. Lulu's a beast, while Squall is kind of boring. Peanutthephantom 9:21, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  12. Boobs over emo gits, dude. --AuronKaizer! 17:07, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  13. I vote for Lulu, not beause I believe that she could actually win in a fight against Squall. He's a competent magic user and fighter. I like Lulu more. She's just cooler.CodeNameRedXIII 17:49, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  14. Badag 18:25, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  15. What AuronKaizer said. FF74EVA! 21:07, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  16. Love 8 but Lulu is cooler, done deal. --wee187 22:42, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  17. I just like her better overall xD There's always been something about Squall that I really don't like... I think it's all of his unheroic personality traits? Yzz 02:34, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  18. Tough one, I mean both have really ridiculous weapons. But DoubleCast Ultima is for me.Kelcius 03:59, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  19. I wish my grass was emo, so it could cut itself! Oh, and Lulu for having currently the greatest rack in Final Fantasy history. If only they made Ivy a FF character...Nashblade
  20. Definitely vote for Lulu, she is not only Black Mage, (best job there is) but she has Double-cast and Squall is to much of emotional person. - Fantasia_66
  21. Voting for the one who wasn't a sad appeal to the emo population. Nokareon
  22. Voting for the less mediocre one. As I stated on the peanut gallery: Squall's character development is just absurd. Zak Undersn 13:47, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
  23. I never played Final Fantasy VIII, I have recently completed Final Fantasy X and I loved it. Plus Lulu was a very cool and strong character. D. Windshot
  24. Lulu is a much better character in almost every aspect.
  25. Lulu: one of my favourite female characters in FF universe -versus- Squall: one of my most unliked male characters in FF universe... Clear win for Lulu here :P MMLN メーマウリアン 06:35, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
  26. Ultima 09:00, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
  27. I prefer lulu 'cause she has too much boobage! XPGilgamesh
  28. For some reason Lulu has always been my favourite PC in FFX (Lucil being the favourite NPC for no apparent reason...), and I couldn't help laughing when I first heard her stern "Burn!" in combat. Although black magic loses most its potential by the end of the game (especially if obtained Celestial Weapons) I used her to take the beating in Dark Aeon -fights to raise up the others' overdrives. Althou Squall had a quite good story with some twists I never found him even half as useful in combat (well I never truly mastered many swordtechs, and with good junctions anyone can be useful...) Vohaul86
  29. Lulu is amazing. Not only because of her awesome boobs, but her killer personality!Zegota
  30. 03:58, September 30, 2009 (UTC)03:58, September 30, 2009 (UTC)~~kasumiKasumi1990 03:58, September 30, 2009 (UTC)kasumi1990 lulu is cool
  31. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Anonymous Votes

  1. I like squall... but LuLu is awesome194.210.67.136 10:25, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  2. She's not from VIII 198.7.245.93 12:27, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  3. No competition in my opinion, Lulu is clearly the best.192.168.1.3 18:23, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
  4. I like both of them about the same, so I'll give Lulu the vote since she appears to be the underdog here. 206.248.110.71 23:19, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

Votes for Squall

  1. Blykus 21:29, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
  2. SnowiiIt's a hard choice but i have to say squall. hes one of my mains in dissidia, after cloud of course
  3. The're both complete jerks in the beginning of the game, but Squall is jerkier. Oh, and Gunblade over Dolls anyday. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 23:11, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
  4. Lulu is just creepy. JohnnyC 00:57, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  5. Because Squall's in Dissidia, and at least he doesn't have much of a blind faith as Lulu has in the beginning of X. Gotta go with the taciturn leader on this on.--Cluna 06 23:55, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
  6. This is a tough fight. I guess I'll go with my gut and say Squall. I'm anti-social, so he resonates with me. ClixPsi
  7. I know more about the shitty character, plus gunblade is awesome even if the game is shitty.YAY seventh vote Flaremmm
  8. He's deceptively idealistic(almost as much as Zidane). He's looks cooler, is undoubtedly a better fighter,(and thanks to GF can be a better BM). Plus his character still gets a lot of crap for no real reason. I hope Dissida cleaned up some of it, as he really is a bad dude, and more awesome considering he mostly hangs out with the two coolest heroes on Cosmos' side. AnonyMan
  9. Don't need to think. --Silver Mage Omega FF5.png 07:47, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  10. Never played VIII, so this is a vote for the person who DIDN'T have sex with Wakka. Also, Squall is a good character in Dissidia and I like his jacket. Silver Dragon XXVIII 11:23, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  11. Munk451 I can not begin to count how many times i have played FF8. It is that awesome! I simply enjoy the cold, silent protagonist that unusually warms up at the end.
  12. How can I not vote on him? SquallisbetterthanCloud 14:25, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  13. Bahh, I kinda hate it when they put my favourite kick-ass characters fighting each other, but since Squall is the best video game character there ever was, still is or will ever be, my vote is for Commander Leonhart! As Finland's biggest Squall fan I am almost obliged to vote for him, but I would do it anyway. I love gunblades, I love wearing black clothes, the hair is so cool and the scar! And I also love sword-fighters, especially those with a bit unusual swords ;)So, go Squall, GO! Dramirth
  14. Gotta be Squall for the win he has the coolest weapon in FF History --RedMageSOLDIER 16:27, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  15. Squall hands down. He is the best protagonist in any FF game. Yeah BlueHighwind..I said it. 63.139.176.68 16:35, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  16. Obivously... Jis 17:37, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  17. Squall. He's NOT emo, he has weird but not idiotic sword (cloud "cough") and okay outfit. Whining doesn't matter, everyone's whiner anyway. Johuotar 18:16, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  18. I have a special connection to FF8. It was the first Final Fantasy game i played, although it was the latest for me to complete (only about 6 years after first playing it). Squall may be cold at the start, but he works through his issues in the end. Also he has a cool dad. Bruntie2 19:15, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  19. Rinoa leonheart 19:56, September 23, 2009 (UTC) O YA GO SQUALL
  20. He the third best hero and my fifth favorite character in Dissidia. And Mystic Flurry > Furry Magic. I never could use her Overdrive.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 20:55, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  21. Gunblade vs. Moogle Doll Sunpanda2012
  22. As much as they're both good characters, Squall IS the main character which gives him more time to develop. MisfitAirship
  23. User:chaosshaun Obviously Squall, because he's one of the best ever Warrior-class protagonists ever in the FF series.
  24. Squall would beat the living crap out of her. Even if Squall haves to draw her Magic, he can still get up to her face and slash it off. SuperGuyverUSA 9:39, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
  25. Squall+Rinoa=sweet.
    Lulu+...Moogle doll?... or Wakka... but still. madaskueuchiha 12:13, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  26. The heart of a lion. -- File:FFIII-nes-sage.gif Saethori (T / C) - 09:00, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  27. Both games are special to me; VIII was my first FF game, X probably my favourite, but I'll vote for Squall. a) He doesn't blindly follow a silly religion, b) He's not dating Wakka, ya? (nothing against W as a fighter, mind) c) He's probably the most unpleasant hero in the series. I mean, he told Quistis to 'go talk to a wall'. Nasty! TomServo101 09:12, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  28. Don't know why but I've always liked Squall - Ash Crimson 10:54, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  29. I'm not really a fan of Lulu, where's her black mage hat? Terra_Homing 16:46, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  30. Better bildugsroman.--Werefang[T/A] 19:51, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  31. Fewer belts. Karu
  32. Squall's one of my favorite characters ever! Rach981 22:57, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  33. Template:BfDsig
  34. Squall's like me, and I can relate to him and I like him for that. User:crims0nf0rtune 24:23, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  35. Gotta go with Squall on this one Mr_Darkside 09:15, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
  36. A very hard choice for me, since I love both characters. However, I've loved Squall longer, and he's too hot to pass up, thus he gets my vote. SamSandy 09:42, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
  37. Squall is the better character becous one: hes awesome, and two: He has a gun spliced with a sword(just basic genetic engeneering). Even though that X was the first game i played that character is just an Awesome one GUNEBLADE RULES !!! Bjarnster 13:05, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
  38. Of course I pick Squall, why not? Kuzlalala Squee! 14:52, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
  39. Much more squall becomes better in dissidia and i really enjoyed what he was talking in his head, Forget about everything else. Alexalibur 15:55 September 26, 2009 (UTC)
  40. Squall. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 17:29, September 26, 2009 (UTC)
  41. Whatever... CheeseNinja 06:00, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
  42. i vote here--ALEX 06:21, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
  43. MILK!  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 11:28, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
  44. They both have good damage output, but Lulu has significantly lower hp. Point Squall Omnigeek 11:44, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
  45. Squall is really cool and he's just plain cooler than Lulu. Legend of Fantasy 17:58, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
  46. The intro to this fight made me laugh, though I'm really sick of people calling Squall emo. Lulu I could care less about. Anyway, I'm going with Squall. He kinda reminds me of me, VIII was the first FF I ever played, and he's the best FF protagonist there's ever been. Nevanus 19:18, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
  47. Squall had an interesting gameplay mechanic with firing the Gunblade.--Ascendant of Dusk 02:26, September 28, 2009 (UTC)Ascendant of Dusk
  48. Squall.....that is all. BlackStarz 06:36, September 29, 2009 (UTC)
  49. Mr. Rojo: Squall is my favorite character, I like his design a lot and he is from my favorite game in the series. 22:21, September 29, 2009 (UTC)
  50. User:starwarsdude8221991: Defentently Squall
  51. First time I played X, I liked Lulu. First time I played VIII, I hated Squall. Recently I've replayed both and found that my opinions have completely switched! Also Squall is buddies with Zidane in Dissdia, which is good enough for me. Hyacynth
  52. Rockmanmegaman: I play both FFX and FFVIII, I find Squal far better, because of his attack and it's pretty amusing everytime he rejects Zell ^_^ and he's not an emo, he's just afraid of losing someone.
  53. A Gunblade is a lot better then a stuffed toy NeoExdeath 02:13, October 4, 2009 (UTC)
  54. Annoying NinjaHallo!Contrib.06:15, October 4, 2009 (UTC)
  55. He's got a friggin gun! Death Reunited
  56. CardboardBoxMan: Squall for sure. His limit break would destroy her. Plus he has a gunblade.
  57. [[User:ElectricSnowman] : I would have to say Squall but it's very close
  58. AznBolt i think squall would win, even though i dont like him, because he's too whiney and emo, but in a fight he would win
  59. Biggs and WedgeBiggs Wedge FFX.png 06:40, October 7, 2009 (UTC) Gotta be squall, His Bravery attacks in Dissidia are the Shit! That is how a Gunblade was supposed to be used
  60. Rocking Chair: Any other day i would of picked Lulu. But for a black mage, she was pretty average. Squall is probably the only character (Other than Edea) that i could stand in FFVIII

Anonymous Votes

  1. 98.180.71.73 18:20, October 3, 2009 (UTC)Now,...who made the cut for Dissidia again?

Peanut Gallery

Okay, this is the last time I'll ask: Can we please stop referring to these two as emo? - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:59, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, please! What does that word even mean anymore? It's like the only characters that can get away with withholding emotions without being made fun of are the "badasses". Give it a rest. AnonyMan 06:52, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
Yup, word "Emo" is actually a complete antithesis of both those characters. Squall is a loner, and don't give a shit about what people think about him, and Lulu is more of a Goth to me. For what I think, idiots who describes them as emo, are either too stupid to know what that mean, or see that those characters are way cooler than themselves and call them emo in revenge. A few years ago, everyone was using word "Fag", and now "Emo". Soon other words would be used. SquallisbetterthanCloud 14:34, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
Correction: Squall starts as a loner, and he's the only one on the crew who seems to know that they're supposed to be elite soldiers. After the end of CD2 he becomes mainly retarded and his becomes the worst character developement ever. Lulu is just a nice secondary character. Zak Undersn 15:12, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
Heh, stupid emos. --AuronKaizer! 20:19, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

yeah badasses are getting annoying now, this seems to be a good fight the votes are neck to neck

Ack! Another fight I find myself unable to vote on! I failed to participate last time due to total apathy, but this week I genuinely can't decide between them. Squall probably has more of a personality than Lulu, and is actually my favourite protagonist - from the small part of VIII I have managed to play (and I find myself struggling to like the game itself) Squall has actually made more sense to me than any other character in the game, and possibly the series. I find myself reading into the overabundance of elipses, and when he does talk, I know exactly what he means (tip: Replace some of the elipses with "WTF?", and you're halfway there). However, I do tend to struggle in battle, and having not played further than Disc One prevents me from making a fully informed decision. On the other hand, Lulu has less of a personality, though what does exist is generally agreable. Using her Black Magic spells is practically half the game won already, and she does wear That Outfit. So generally all good, but I can't really come to a decision because of that. So yay, and also boo. The Man In The Black Cape 17:35, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

I understand the connection! They both wear way too many goddamn belts! (Square-Enix Producer: "Can we add more belts to this character? There's just not enough damn belts on this person. More belts please." Character Designer: "Sure! How does a few hundred extra unneeded belts sound?" Producer: "That's a start.") What's up with all the fucking belts? Their clothes are too tight to fall off. This is not Soul Caliber, where clothing is made entirely of belts and jock straps.CodeNameRedXIII 17:42, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, Squall's overall design(redsigns in other series excluded) doesn't have that many belts. He's really not wearing any more than you're average RPG or anime "cool" character. Lulu however, obviously, does. Plain and Simple. AnonyMan 19:23, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

I hate the word emo. Simple as that. It's the name of an image that people give themselves because they think pretending to be depressed is cool. On that note, neither of these two are emo anyways. Lulu is just goth. Squall is just quiet and moody, not depressed. JohnnyC 21:57, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Damn, I was about to say the same thing in different words. Lulu is gothic, but Sqaull is harder to define. He's more the lone wolf type than emo. I haven't played FFVIII in years, but he's definitely NOT emo. TheBlueDragoon 00:27, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
Squall is not emo. He is simply a quiet, serious guy who wants the idiots surrounding him (Zell, Selphie, etc.) to just leave him alone. I haven't even played VIII and I recognize this (mostly because I just described myself). Silver Dragon XXVIII 19:49, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

-oh...i didnt know that either of them were a music genre, because you know....thats what emo is

People who say that one of Lulu's pluses is Dualcast should try and play FFVIII, cast Triple magic, and Triplecast with anyone. "The Dualcast is better" reason compared to a character from FFVIII is just...stupid. SquallisbetterthanCloud 09:16, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

What's Triplecast do, cast three spells? Let's put Triplecast up against the W-Summon Materia, paired with the Knights of Round Materia. See my point? Or, if it's repeated spells you want, check out VI- Doublecast, Quick (which gives the character not one, but two additional turns immediately, the second of which can include casting Quick again) and Quick being available under Doublecast. Here goes the Infinite Spell Spam! The.DreadnoughT 00:53, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
Spamming Magic isn't what FFVIII is about, spamming Limit Breaks is what VIII's about, TripleCast is so you can use the Insta-Limit Aura spell on the whole party at once. And Most of the cast have extremely overpowered Limits, being able to use them in succession is much worse than Magic spamming and MUCH easier to accomplish. AnonyMan 03:21, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
Maybe I should've specified that it was Relm's Ultima being spammed. Also, Relm's Flare, Meteor, etc. Alternately, Locke with the Offering, Genji Glove, Illumina and ValiantKnife can potentially hit for quad-nines three times (Illumina, Randomcast Holy, ValiantKnife) for each of the "four" attacks from X-Fight, and thus equal Knights of Round. The.DreadnoughT 18:07, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that's right, isn't all about spamming magic. It's about spamming draw->store and attack. In fact, I found magic quite useless on FFVIII aside from junctions.Zak Undersn 17:38, September 30, 2009 (UTC)
Quick > Triplecast for just one reason: it lets you spam anything you damn well please. Triplecast only works on magic (and, indirectly, Limit Breaks, I suppose) My first example was with magic, because Quick, being magic, works most efficiently as a magic-spammer paired with Doublecast, since this lets you use the second added turn to do something and recast Quick. However, since its effects grant someone an extra pair of turns, they can actually spam anything they want on the turn in between. The.DreadnoughT 21:48, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

People (even video game characters) should never be stereotyped.--Silver Mage Omega FF5.png 10:47, September 24, 2009 (UTC)


The word "emo," when applied to either of these characters, is illogical. For that matter, "goth" is too, even if it is more apt. We're using words that relate to people and have connotations (either good or bad) which exist in our world, not the respective Final FANTASY worlds in which the characters live. In Lulu's eyes, she's not gothic at all. Just a lady with red eyes and black clothes, and she's not the only one who fits this description (Paine). And Squall has never referred to himself, nor have his friends ever referred to him, as "emo." The terms "emo" and "goth" are an individual's way of defining themselves, and neither Lulu nor Squall used those terms. So lets stop pigeon-holing and simplifying them. These characters have a depth which surpasses shallow terms like "emo" and "goth," and whether you like or hate them, they stand as individuals, not members of a certain "emo" or "goth" subculture that exist in our world.CodeNameRedXIII 15:49, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

What you're saying doesn't make sense. Characters can be made to be goths an emos in video games just as they can be made to be horny and annoying. Template:ILHI 16:28, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
Horney and annoying are characteristics, not subculture references.CodeNameRedXIII 16:43, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
Eh, I suppose. I was wrong there. But emo and goth refers to a collection of characteristics all applied at the same time. This collection of characteristics can occur in video games. Template:ILHI 16:51, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
You're right. They can, and typically do. However, there is a fine line between how we define these characters, and how they define themselves. If we consider the worlds in which they live to be entirely autonomous from our own, then we must acknowledge that their self-defined characteristics are as well, even though they may resemble ours. Though we may think of Squall as "emo," he never refers to himself as "emo," nor is referred to by anyone else as "emo." If we look at these worlds as products of our own (which, arguably, they are), then we have to look at the definitive definitions we place on words like "emo." Since "emo" isn't exactly in Webster's, it's more of a self-defining term, and still, Squall does not refer to himself nor define himself as an "emo." Yes, you can have "emo" characters in games. Yes, you can have "emo" characteristics in characters. But unless they refer to themselves as "emo," they're not exactly "emo" at all.CodeNameRedXIII 17:11, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
And they can't be "emo" because "emo" as a word does not exist. However, "emo" people rarely identify themselves as emo; it is from an observing party that the title is applied. Because we can observe these characters we can (incorrectly, mind you) identify them as "emo" by our own (perhaps faulty) standards.--Werefang[T/A] 19:44, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Who is the anonyomous retard who put a vote for Lulu on the Squall side of the line, not even in the voting section, and several light-years from the anon votes section. The Man In The Black Cape 18:47, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Oh joy, another one sided fight. I lost count. I think this is the fourth one in a row? TheBlueDragoon 02:35, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Third one in a row. --Silver Mage Omega FF5.png 04:27, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

How come is someone able to add coments and edit something below the line that goes "DO NOT ADD COMMENTS OR EDIT ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE!!!". United Nations Organization should start thinking about licenses to surf the internet.Zak Undersn 15:35, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Because below that line is two symbols. And if those two symbols are broken you break the entire DNC. Template:ILHI 15:39, September 26, 2009 (UTC)
Maybe I didn't explain myself correctly. I meant that someone wrote below it even with that "ALL CAPS WARNING!!!". And, of course, he broke all DNC. And someone did it again below the warning line below what I'm writing right now.Zak Undersn 16:11, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

I don't have any qualms about using the word "emo," but I like it to be correct in at least the colloquial sense. In other words, it doesn't have to personify what emo LITERALLY means (because good luck finding someone who actually knows that), but it at least has to be a character who's somewhat depressing & overemotes. I'm not sure about Squall, but that definately isn't Lulu. However, given the way people talk, you'd think that emo meant "wearing 50% or more black clothing." It makes me wonder if they crash funerals & call everyone there emo. As for the vote, I'll decide later, althouigh in all honesty, it'll probably be Lulu. I haven't seen too much of Squall, but I don't even really know what this match is about....70.211.186.104 19:35, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

emo=idiot
idiot=bring on the next fight

Jis Umm...no. And even so, that's still not Lulu.Neo Bahamut 00:49, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Can we call this fight already? Squall won hands down. TheBlueDragoon 00:37, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Isn't the one week time period over? -- Silver Mage Omega FF5.png 10:37, October 3, 2009 (UTC)
Its been over for a day or so. TheBlueDragoon 18:21, October 3, 2009 (UTC)
I'm getting tired of this fight...even if Squall is in it. -- Silver Mage Omega FF5.png 12:22, October 5, 2009 (UTC)
I agree, we need a new fight, and could TA have a look at NinjaOfWind's new rules ideas. Come to think of it its starting to look like the DNC has been abandoned --RedMageSOLDIER 17:46, October 5, 2009 (UTC)
For the record, I'm the one who called for the change in rules. NoW Just summed it all up for us. TheBlueDragoon 02:02, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
So can we be done with this fight now or shall we rebel and open our own colosseum? Just kidding DNC Rocks!--Biggs and WedgeBiggs Wedge FFX.png 06:44, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

Who deleted the anonymous votes for Sqaull line? i think they need some LMAONADE--Flaremmm 05:14, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

why were the last 15 or so votes for squall deleted? I had vote 77 so squall won by a lot more...

Week 131: Drain v. Osmose

Dnc v.jpg
WINNER!
OSMOSE
It's another spell battle: Drain versus Osmose or Aspir or Syphon or whatever you want to call it. Which is more useful? WINNER!
49½ to 15½

Votes for Body

  1. MP is good but HP is necessary Flaremmm
  2. Only in FFVI, to my knowledge, are there things that can die by running out of MP. Stealing HP, on the other hand, is actually productive (especially considering that Osmose requires MP anyway. Speaking of which, welcome to the Department of Redundancy Department. The.DreadnoughT 23:00, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  3. So many creatures don't even have MP. Why prefer something when it isn't even there half the time. You can find HP on creatures everywhere you go, so Drain can help you anytime that mage has critical health. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png-
  4. Blykus 16:16, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
  5. I don't use either often, but PSI Magnet (Mother series) is indefinately better than Osmose. An MP-stealing spell using MP makes no sense, no matter how low an MP cost it is. Pikmin Master 16:20, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
  6. Vivi is pretty damn deadly with Drain. Template:BfDsig
  7. I never use either much, but since I usually grind a lot throughout the whole game(s), I'm usually more of a physical attacker until the boss battles, so Drain would be more useful to me.--madaskueuchiha
  8. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 18:01, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
  9. HP is better then MP because of many reasons. Mostly because you need HP to live and I dont use much Magic, besides in Final Fantasy VI and XII SuperGuyverUSA 5:56 September 12, 2009 (UTC)
  10. Remember Final Fantasy VIII? No MP there, and when you junctioned 100 Drains to ST-atk, you've had blood weapons! #SquallisbetterthanCloud 08:06, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
  11. MrAllStar2 : i never use osmose or drain, its called cure and ethers, but Kimahri's lancet is the closest thing i used to drain, and FFVIII doesnt use MP anyways
  12. Drain FTW. -wtdrmfrthwbzn
  13. Osmose never seems to work when I really need it... Drain isn't really much of a threat but I've definitely used it more. Terra_Homing 02:12, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
  14. Mhm. peanutthephantom 19:10, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
  15. I agree With The Dreadnort. Using a spell that requires MP to get MP is entirely redundant --RedMageSOLDIER 01:46, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes

  1. The truth is I hardly ever use either spell, but when I do, I find Drain to be much more useful. I usually don't use a lot of magic, so I don't tend to run of MP too often, so when I do I can just use one Ether. Plus, Drain recovers HP which is more important than MP if you think about it. 206.248.110.71 01:48, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

Votes for Soul

  1. I hate having to use Ethers on mages, but this spell makes it so I don't have to.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 12:18, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  2. You can just use Cure to heal HP, Osmose is the only spell that restore MP.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 12:20, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  3. Ethers are too scarce and cost too much Gil. The worse that can happen to you if you use Osmose is lose 1 MP. Violetmage♥13:06, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  4. Why waste Ethers when you can just nick your opponent's MP? Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 13:48, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  5. Omg now I get to vote in the black background box 8D Vivi + Osmose = win. 8bit 13:51, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  6. I only used Osmose in VI. I didn't use Drain ever. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 13:56, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  7. More MP? AND the enemies can no longer afford to cast their spells? It's a win-win spell. ClixPsi
  8. Masamune: Drain doesn't hurt the enemy enough or heal the caster enough to be worth it. Osmose can come in handy in a tight spot.
  9. Drained of MP an enemy can't cast spells on you or harm you. Plus Drain sucks Hamfruitcake 09 19:25, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  10. Drain spells neither dmg enemy enough or heal allies enough, osmose is much more powerful and mp is harder to restore. And its fun to kill magical enemy by depleting its mp. Johuotar 20:05, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  11. Victory for one of the most deadly spells in FF. FinalAnnihilator 20:27, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  12. Yes I do hate Osmose why do you ask? --Gamer2127 20:37, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  13. Seriously, with Ethers usually hard to come by or very expensive, Osmore is just the better choice. Plus it usually costs next to no MP to cast. Osmose win my vote. TheBlueDragoon 21:00, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  14. Boogum 22:25, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
  15. I don't use either one, but generally, Drain doesn't heal you that much. Osmose would save a lot of money, since Ethers are usually expensive. JohnnyC
  16. Don't use either often but osmose is the most useful of the two Cammy G 01:07, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
  17. most things i fought in most ff games had too little/no mp for this to be good, but simply from how good it was in vi, this easily wins. drain i never bothered with, especially after i found out i had a horrible habit of finding out a moment too late that my enemy was considered undead >_<Akbaroth 05:18, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
  18. Osmose so you have the MP to cast Curaja next turn User:Neosamuel
  19. I dont use either but MP is harder to get then HP so.... Mr_Darkside 12:48, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
  20. In some games eithers are so darn expensive.. better to just use a spell to do it.Bjarnster 21:31, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
  21. Free bird 13:54, September 11, 2009 (UTC) Due to my love of magic I vote for Osmose. At only 2 MP, you save yourself an expensive Ether/Hi-Ether. Can't go wrong with that!
  22. Chicken grease salt Bruntie2 16:04, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
  23. The more magic points you have , the more damage you can inflict on your enemies with spells much more powerful than Drain. It's easy to regain HP's. there was only one time i used drain consistently, and that was for a single battle in FFX when all my other party members were ejected from the battle, and I only had Rikku left. I just rotated drain and ultima with a double cast. but, other than that instance, I never use drain. I constantly use osmose.CodeNameRedXIII 16:45, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
  24. Personally, I LOVE osmose, sure it does not work very well in IV. But it is almost required for some of the games, hell, every time I play VI I get that as quickly as possible, and in II I always give it to my main caster. Exdeath64 18:27, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
  25. BlueHighwind : I actually used this spell once... I think it was FFV, who knows? Actually, I almost never used either of these attacks, I was too busy casting a MAN'S spell like "Ultima". True Fact: your dick grows one millimeter every time you use "Ultima".
  26. Well Drain and Osmose aren't very good in FFX, but i prefer Osmose better, because it saves you from having to find ethers Destriker73 22:32, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
  27. Cloudiroth
  28. I never use either much, but I use Osmose much more than Drain (although, that's still extremely rarely). Legend of Fantasy 01:26, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
  29. Munk451 It is simple. Osmose is one VERY annoying spell if it is used on you, but if you use it on an enemy, it can be beneficial to you!
  30. Whilst Drain is for everyone, Osmose is a lifesaver (coz it actually drains a lot of MP) when you have a good mage (Vivi anyone?). Plus you save on those expensive Ethers.CheeseNinja 14:23, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
  31. Drain has no real use, Osmose is amazing in many games where MP restoration is hard. Especially FF6. FFIV: The After also comes to mind. Another landslide fight... -Nokareon
  32. I value mp over hp. Enough said.FF74EVA! 18:28, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
  33. Wanna know why Black Mages have MP Absorb in FFX-2? Yeah. That's what I thought. Now if the White Mages have Osmose, it would definately be win!--Cluna 06 18:44, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
  34. Sunpanda2012
  35. Just Attacking does more damage than Drain. Enemies usually can't replenish MP, so draining it from them with osmose is better.Ascendant of Dusk 20:48, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
  36. Voting for this since Rasp is closer to Osmose. (And as any FF VI player knows, Rasp is the killer; regaining MP to heal also seems like a better idea.) --Silver Mage Omega FF5.png 02:42, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
  37. Osmose has saved me soooo many times while drain has done nothing but be a crappy weak attack NeoExdeath 03:14, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
  38. Osmose was a lifesaver in FFII. I've never found Drain useful outside of junctions. Avieure 09:18, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
  39. Osmose and Cure makes a character self sufficient. - Henryacores^ 17:23, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
  40. From the FFXII standpoint, Syphon is vay better than drain. Curaja and Attacking normally is so much easier and efficient because it does more both ways. However it's nice to take a reserve character out and drink up their MP like a straw to give it to someone else. --wee187 20:02, September 15, 2009 (UTC)
  41. Because it can actually be useful Yzz 01:57, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
  42. Maverick Riot 10:29, September 16, 2009 (UTC) Almost put Drain, then I remembered Syphon in FXII and how brilliant that was if used well... against your allies...
  43. Because HP can be healed with MP, and drain does low damage. KaiserPaladin 08:54, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
  44. I slide today with more vocal majority on this one :) Drain is nice addition to Cure, but only equivalent to Osmose are Ethers, and they are in some games pain in the ass to get... MMLN メーマウリアン 11:18, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
  45. Wow, what a BORING match. But anyway, Osmose is definetly more useful. A spell that costs 0MP and grants you more MP is much more of a lifesaver than a spell that steals HP... Simply because, there are lots of damaging spells, lots of healing spells and absolutely no MP restoring spells. *tries to imagine a flying ball of HP and MP going at it* Exciting. No78
  46. I don't even care that I get the MP. I just want to make sure that the opponent can't use magics, so that I can beat him down at my leasure. And in star ocean, no MP is the same as no HP so I still win, just faster.--Werefang[T/A] 13:17, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
  47. i used Osmose more than i used drain --Yuffie2211 Uso mitai na I love you~ 09:38, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes

  1. Though I've never thought to use it for this, Osmose is the perfect way to regain MP. After all, the only way to restore MP outside of an inn or tents is with an Ether, or an even rarer Elixer. They're rare and/or expensive, which is why people, such as myself, tend not to use them except for boss battles or not at all. HP can be healed any number of ways. Plus, in terms of which one is more devastating, Osmose cast on my mages is far worse than Drain being cast on any of my characters. So in my book Osmose is a superior spell to Drain. 173.63.176.221
  2. Osmose is clearly more usefull... drain sometimes won't work (in certain games) and you need mp to cast it... osmose is to regain mp and if you have healing spells you can just use them... Osmose is ultimate pwnage81.193.212.48 15:55, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
  3. Why wait 3 disks to buy an ether when i could steal my MP from a flan? I can restore my HP from the beginning of the game!
  4. It is better to use your MP for strong magics and strong cure spells instead of using drain. Since drain heals and deals a small amount of damage 121.223.138.79 08:59, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
  5. Osmose has probably been used more then Drain for many uses such as regular black magic or in some cases white magic and summons which are much more helpful then draining about a hundred HP specially later in the game where you are in your thousands then Osmose helps by casting powerful nuclear powered black magic or overpowered summons or heal THOUSANDS with a Curaga if the user has both.
  6. Fighting Ultima Weapon in FF6 and NOT getting pwned by depleting his hp? I didn't think so. Admittedly, I used Rasp instead of Osmose there, but you get the idea. Draining MP = very useful. Not to mention that without MP, white mages cannot heal, and you WILL die. 62.252.178.158 22:53, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery

I want to point something out. There are plenty of ways to replenish a characters HP; namely, any version of the Cure spells, any of those different types of potion, and Drain. Most of which are very easy to get a hold of. MP, however, only has ethers (which tend to be either exceedingly rare, or in a limited number) and Osmose. So, in the sense that Osmose is the best way to regain MP, but there is better ways of recovering HP, Osmose is better than Drain. I also point out that while Elixirs and the such regain both, they are rarer than even ethers. So yeah.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 12:29, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

I prefer spells that steal both HP and MP. Like Lancet or Absorb. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 13:50, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
Seeing as how my strategy usually revolves around heavy casting, this was an easy choice. It was a good suggestion. Definitely something new. TheBlueDragoon 21:02, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
I limit myself on casting. Like I mensioned in my vote above, you can't always count on enemies having the MP that you need, so conserving it until you get to the next town or until you can blow it all on the next boss fight seems like a better strategy. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png-
Some of my strategies rely on heavy casting. In some games MP is ripe for the picking (FFVI) whereas in other games (FFIV) Osmose barely is worth mentioning. I can recall draining several hundred MP at time from regular enemies in FFVI, but a regular enemy in FFIV gives maybe 5 or 10 MP. Ethers are expensive in that game as well. So yeah, what I'm trying to say is that the game determines my strategy. TheBlueDragoon 02:43, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Maybe this is just me, but I kind of hope the next battle is less of a one-sided battle. :/ ClixPsi Not voting. The battle is sort of meh, but that's not why. In general, neither spell is very good. Depends on the enemy, depends on the game. That being said, Lancet wins.Neo Bahamut 01:40, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Abstaining from voting since this was my proposal. Plus I like both spells too much to have to pick a favorite. x.x -- File:FFIII-nes-sage.gif Saethori (T / C) - 18:09, September 11, 2009 (UTC) I vote lance Oni Dark Link 18:22, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

now that i think about it i never used these spells, except to test em out (thats once each). Flaremmm

Damn, this is the third one sided fight in a row. I'm not complaining, its a damn good fight, I'm just making a general observation. TheBlueDragoon 00:24, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

I am filled with sadness. And MP. But mostly sadness. -- File:FFIII-nes-sage.gif Saethori (T / C) - 05:56, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
It was a shame the Sin vs. Vegnagun battle was so one-sided. That was a good match-up, & I personally liked Vegnagun. At the very least, he's unique among FF bosses. It was essentially a sentient WMD that could have potentially destroyed the main antagonist, if everyone wasn't too scared to use it. The unfortunate thing is that Drain usually heals much too little to be a useful spell. Osmose, on the other hand, usually costs little to no MP to use and, while I didn't use it much either, could be a bit more helpful, depending on the game.Neo Bahamut 15:31, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
It was very one-sided. Sadly, we have yet another one sided fight. The only game I use Osmose is FFVI, and that's the only game it actually has a use in. FFIV it barely works late game. In FFX, you can usually only steal about 100 at a time, and then you're sunk when that's gone. Lancet is a good move, and it usually heals more than a Drain or Osmose spell. TheBlueDragoon 17:17, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, one of the arguments against that Genesis vs. Kuja fight I want so badly is that it'll probably be one-sided. But I think we're beginning to see that there's really no way of knowing that until it happens. VI, the only reason I could think of to use Osmose was for the few enemies that died when their MP ran out, but I didn't know which ones those were at the time, & even if I did, I could deal HP damage so much faster. X, the way it was handled there was just retarded. Each enemy had a preset amount of MP, which was usually very small, although none of their skills actually used it. So, when you used Osmose, you didn't weaken your foe at all, & you barely gained anything. Ironically, this is one of the games that drain was slightly more useful in. But I think I only had Mindy use it, & I used it a bit in the Evrae battle, & that was about it.Neo Bahamut 18:18, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
I could see a lot of battles being one-sided. I think Kuja versus Genesis would be one hell of a fight. And yes, in X, the enemies had preset MP and once it was gone that was it, you had to use Ethers. FFVI was the best way to use Osmose. Ultima Weapon was a famous example of the MP kill rule. I know this because I was replaying the game last night and I wiped out his MP. Anyway, Lancet is usually the better choice when available, but I still stand with Osmose. TheBlueDragoon 19:40, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

Honestly I find both spells completely useless. The only time I've ever had to use them was in desperation during a boss battle, and they barely give me anything.--DarkTriforce 18:03, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Both spells per-se are just lame, the cool thing is to use its side-effects (Drain junctioned to attack, HP/MP Absorb materia, Spellblade...). In these cases, one usually excels and the other is just barely useful, guess which?Zak Undersn 13:33, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm...toughie. Only used Drain in VIII (as a status attack junction) and Osmose in XII (yes, I know it's called Syphon there, but hey) and even then only during superbosses and the like. I don't use them enough really be fair to either. Plus I only use Lancet in X if I desperately need the MP (Dark Magus Sisters, for example) TomServo101 15:04, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about osmose's MP requirement, but as long as you don't fuck things up, you lose like...2. And, in Crisis Core, it costs 0 MP. Just seems like kind of a moot point, to me.Neo Bahamut 02:08, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, Lance from FF5 is better than both Osmose and Drain. Even if only because it's both those spells at once without using MP. 62.252.178.158 22:55, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but now I really must put my two Gil's worth in. Osmose = Fail, Drain = Fail, right? So...

Lancet = (0.5 x Osmose) + (0.5 x Drain)
Lancet = (0.5 x Fail) + (0.5 x Fail)
Lancet = (0.5 + 0.5) x Fail
Lancet = (1) x Fail
Lancet = Fail

That provides mathematical proof that since both Drain and Osmose fail, so does Lancet. Just sayin'... The.DreadnoughT 21:32, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

You did your homework. I agree with you, I just am partial to Lancet, being a Dragoon and all. TheBlueDragoon 23:54, September 21, 2009 (UTC)
But since Lancet does not need MP, I think the fail quotient should be smaller than one, making it something like, for example
Lancet = (0.5 x (MP-Free-Osmose)) + (0.5 x (MP-Free-Drain))
Lancet = (0.5 x (0.7 x Fail)) + (0.5 x (0.7 x Fail))
And so on. Making it somewhat better than both spells Zak Undersn 14:24, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
So, Lancet = (0.5 x (0.7 x Fail)) + (0.5 x (0.7 x Fail)), Okay, that's the Fail Coefficient, by the way. Anyway, then it's like this:
Lancet = (0.5 x (0.7 x Fail)) + (0.5 x (0.7 x Fail))
Lancet = 0.7 ([0.5 x Fail] + [0.5 x Fail])
Lancet = 0.7 (2 [0.5 x Fail])
Lancet = 0.7 (1 [Fail])
Lancet = 0.7 x Fail
Works for me, but if f(X) = X (Fail), and X is greater than zero, it still fails. The.DreadnoughT 20:08, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
All people who actually calculate this kind of stuff = fail.

--AuronKaizer! 20:20, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Week 130: Steiner v. Wakka

AmanoSteiner.jpg
Dnc v.jpg
WINNER!
Steiner
56½ to 21½
Both of these guys have a good heart... but they both come across as a bit hapless.
AmanoSteiner.jpg

Votes for Steiner

  1. Steiner easy. He's from the better game and more importantly the better character, he's also unintentionally hilarious. Wakka is one of the cooler FFX character, however. AnonyMan 05:08, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  2. Faethinte audio : Religious zealots with stupid weapons ftfl.
  3. I see this guy better.Kuzlalala Squee! 09:39, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  4. Whoever voted for Wakka should perish. Kyrel 11:42, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  5. Steiner was pretty beastly with his sword arts, rare super-strength trance, and his magic sword abilities with Vivi. Sure, his best weapon required some major hacks/elite skills (Excalibur II *glare*), but he was an easy to utilize character. Wakka, on the other hand, seemed less important. Tidus eventually became fast enough to hit the ranged enemies, and Wakka's strength and speed always seemed mid-of-the-road. Plus, his best overdrive abilities come from far more blitzball playing than I could stomach. ClixPsi
  6. I love Ol' Rusty! This guy made FFIX a hilarious game, which is one of the reasons why I love it so much. Violetmage♥ 13:23, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  7. I hate both, but since Rusty is from IX, there's no other choice... SquallisbetterthanCloud 14:01, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  8. Steiner is my favorite character from my favorite game! Umbrella Officer
  9. i never played IX, i just hate wakka. dunno why, i just always got irritable every time his continued existence was proven.Akbaroth 15:53, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  10. I vote for good old Rusty! Rusty and Vivi were the ultimate duo Bruntie2 16:45, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  11. Wakka sucks!--Ltfabretti Dragoon 17:02, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  12. Steiner has his own sound effect when ever he runs or jumps, carries a meaty big ass sword around with him and can kill something sooner than look at it. Wakka is a bigoted ball thrower. Hamfruitcake 09 17:35, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  13. It's Rusty! How can I not vote for him, even if he is a loud-mouthed idiot?--StragusLore 17:39, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  14. 'Cause Blitzball really annoys me, ya? The.DreadnoughT 20:21, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  15. Wow... just wow... we really ARE running out of fights, aren't we? Wakka is made of fail, and Steiner gets to bone with Beatrix, so there.Winged Lion 20:49, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  16. BlueHighwind : Because one sucks, and one is awesome. Everybody to my right is a moron.
  17. Even though I like both characters, Steiner just edges it out for me. He had a good story and he was just a better character overall. Plus he has a cool nickname. Rusty. Anyway, I vote Steiner. This is a good fight. TheBlueDragoon 21:44, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  18. Mystic Knight. Done. Pikmin Master 21:51, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  19. Masamune: HAHAHAHAHA! Too FUNNY!
  20. Steiner was goofy. Wakka was just annoying as Hell. JohnnyC
  21. I am a huge fan of Wakka, but Steiner has more power. SuperGuyverUSA 7:49, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  22. Personality wise, both are very similar, with Steiner blindly following Brahne and Wakka blindly following Yevon (which is why I suggested this fight), but Steiner has more comic relief, and that is where my vote lies. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 00:03, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  23. Steiner >>>> Wakka. And Beatrix's heart belongs to him :3 Karu
  24. This guy actually has the sense to fight with a sword instead of a blitzball. He is definatly the better character.- Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png-
  25. Clank clank clank. Template:BfDsig
  26. Overly religious, bigoted zealot with a ball for a weapon or a fighter with a name I can stand? Mmmm... Bangaa Red Mage 01:54, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  27. Sure, Steiner's clueless, but, if anything, you can at least say he was dedicated to his sworn duty. -- File:FFIII-nes-sage.gif Saethori (T / C) - 03:19, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  28. Steiner. Extremely useful throughout the game, and also, DOOMSDAY SWORD... I dunno, he's also much funnier. -Nokareon
  29. Cloudiroth Love Steiner, hate Wakka. Easy one.
  30. Rusty is one of the best characters in IX, not only because he's a heavy hitter, but also because, without him, there would be only half as many funny moments in the game. Silver Dragon XXVIII 19:52, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  31. Are you KIDDING ME!?! Steiner has so much on Wakka! He's the strongest (generally speaking) character in FFIX and has such a funny, yet noble and admirable character. Wakka is kinda like... a lesser version of that. Yzz 21:06, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  32. Leogon255 23:46, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  33. Princess! Princess! Princess! 8bit 00:02, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  34. Either Wakka, the stupud racist, or Steiner, the hopless knight. At least Steiner has good taste in women.--Xepscern 01:56, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  35. Steiner= Love Boogum 02:49, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  36. We all love Rusty. --wee187 04:31, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  37. FF9 FTW!!!!!!!!! NeoExdeath 07:19, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  38. -SHOCK! -ロル Lol Cakes オケス 11:16, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  39. That concept art of Steiner by Yoshitaka Amano is the best concept art hes done for a Final Fantasy. That being said, Steiner is more unique than people think considering his kind of story has only been explored by another Final Fantasy character once (Basch). I think Steiner's one of the best characters in the game, considering he breaks the traditional mold of the loyal knight eventually and develops his own reasons for serving Alexandria. Also, Steiner can wield the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX and one of the most powerful weapons in all of Final Fantasy. Adelbert
  40. Okay, first off, I hate these two evenly. the onlt reason I'm voting for Steiner is because he's a knight. what the fuck is Wakka? A Sport-class? Derum
  41. Steiner is a knight with the silly one-mindedness that is the ultimate comedic releif character. I'm surprised Wakka's scoring as well as he is. Legend of Fantasy 19:46, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  42. Sunpanda2012
  43. Really easy to decide, Rusty is just awesome.- Saraija Merinas
  44. Two words: Pickle Fetish. Bwahaha! -Zidane19
  45. I really like both characters, but Steiner just wins out. Avieure 03:54, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  46. Zenigata! Steiner is a good character, I like him.Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 15:19, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  47. I vote Steiner. At least he has a real weapon. Wakka's ball will hardly even hurt Steiner. Dragoon Knight
  48. Clink, Clink. I vote for Sir Rusts-A-Lot go Stiener!! Uoper 12 Shinryu-ffv.gif 22:36, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  49. Steiner is dumb and much weaker than Wakka, but Wakka is dumb AND racist AND bigot.
  50. Though I didn't use him much (his best abilities were entirely based on Vivi's presence in your party), I suppose I like the character better. Wakka was useful for a little while until your characters achieved a higher accuracy score. And I felt Wakka's character was a bit one-dimensional. CodeNameRedXIII 14:34, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
  51. Because people who are oblivious to the truth when its staring them in the face annoy me. Although Wakka is otherwise a truly awesome character. Plus, some of the funniest scenes in the game revolve around steiner. Bluesilver 14:06, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
  52. Steiner, hands-down! He'll cut that ball of Wakka's to shreds, and then go after his neck. VoidCommanderExdeath 22:05, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
  53. I did like the goofy islander too, but the hapless knight takes it. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Anonymous Votes

  1. Gotta go with Rusty on this one. Despite his serious and stoic nature, he is easily one of the most humerous things about Final Fantasy IX. Besides, he has a good heart and is very honorable and noble. You've got to admire that. Not only that, but he gets Beatrix. Come on, just being able to land her as a girlfriend alone is enough to make good ol' Rusty superior. 173.63.176.221
  2. FFIX is my fav and Steiner has those clanking noises you just can't beat ;P -maikyuu173.63.176.221
  3. Wakka is from a better game, but Steiner is just better, for obvious reasons. Steiner wears armour, Wakka wears an ugly shirt. Steiner has a sword, Wakka has a beachball. Steiner worships Vivi, Wakka worships Yu Yevon (who just turns out to be the game's main villan.)-173.35.180.242 21:29, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  4. Steiner is one of the funniest characters in any final fantasy game. 198.7.245.93 16:52, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  5. Rusty FTW213.13.227.118 17:57, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  6. Rusty--189.18.227.43 12:40, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
  7. Steiner was able to get Beatrix.All Wakka got was an old hag who used dolls as weapons.Steiner wins. 76.126.68.142

Votes for Wakka

  1. Gamer2127 05:29, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  2. This vote stems from my inexplicable hatred of Steiner. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:51, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  3. He's sort of a minor character in X, yet he's still better than a lot of major characters throughout the series.Neo Bahamut 06:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC
  4. Wakka is a way cooler name, though steiner isn't half bad, - I could say Wakka all day! Flaremmm
  5. Though I never see him again in KH, plus he married Lulu! - Silver Mage Omega FF5.png 11:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  6. I like X more than IX. Besides, Wakka shut up for a bit, Rusty never did. TomServo101 11:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  7. Steiner was kinda annoying(well very annoying) and besides Wakka is the best at killing aerial foes. Bjarnster 14:23 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  8. Rinoa leonheart 16:42, September 1, 2009 (UTC) O YA
  9. mmm steiner is too goofy... i prefer wakka 'cause he's also a blitzball player!Gilgamesh 18:56, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  10. Soren 4ever 17:31, September 1, 2009 (UTC)This is a tough choice, both are from great games and are good characters; but I loved Wakka from the first time I saw him, whereas I had to grow to like Steiner.
  11. Sure, he's a racist douchebag, but for combat, he's pretty damn good. I gave one of his weapons stonestrike, poisonstrike, and darkstrike, which, while not equaling "Living Chainsaw" certainly made things easier to deal with. Now if I can just give him Quick Hit Exdeath64 18:59, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  12. Not just another character wielding a sword BritPenance 11:46, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  13. Steiner was a clichéd knight, while Wakka was an overzealous athlete. I go for originality. SamSandy 18:07, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  14. Yes he has a ball as a weapon but its very useful if used rite Mr_Darkside 20:50, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
  15. him and tee-dus are gonna do a little explorin today Ningacom 20:26, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  16. Go Wakka... TKOTL
  17. Wakka--DarkTriforce 22:32, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  18. Wakka Wakka Wakka WAKKA! Kefka44
  19. Wakka ya! Wakka didn't fail Lady Summoner as many times as ol' rusty did Garnet. He held his chocobos, ya? Rusty was a sticker. FinalAnnihilator 23:43, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
  20. I don't think that there's any way we're going to win this, but Wakka is the best! He just happened to awesome, and, though he was racist, he did pretty damn well in a fight. Plus he married Lulu!! Go Wakka!!!! Kami strife 13:25, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
  21. This is a really hard decision for me, because I didn't really like either character. I definately liked Final Fantasy IX more than Final Fantasy X, but I think I like Wakka better than Steiner because he is more of a bro. Both are definately stronger characters in their games, but I think that Wakka would win in a fight because I think of Steiner as being pretty clumsy and slow. Peanutthephantom 9:49, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes

  1. 121.223.138.79 09:02, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery

I'm back. And I missed 2 good fights. Albeit, the whole Sin vs. Vegnagun thing was depressingly one-sided. In any case, I have no clue who Steiner is, but I doubt he developes as much as Wakka.Neo Bahamut 06:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Yay! My suggestion got honoured! Now, it's just the dilemma of who to vote for... Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 11:31, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

This fight is pointless... btw, I though BH was long gone?? Am I having an illusion?Winged Lion 20:58, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Unless the Patriots are playing some cruel trick on us, no. The.DreadnoughT 22:45, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
I think he's stil around, he's just not up to much and is no longer properly working at the wiki. The Man In The Black Cape 23:22, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
I thought he left too. I remember him saying on the DNC page a few months back that he was leaving the Wiki. Its good that he's still around though. TheBlueDragoon 19:08, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Ouch! Another fight where I'll have to think. Good suggestion Jeppo. TheBlueDragoon 21:28, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

This is another landslide...much like Sin and Vegnagun...after reading Steiner's comments, I felt stupid voting for Wakka... --Silver Mage Omega FF5.png 10:09, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
What surprises me most is that this is a landslide. I never imagined it would be another landslide. Both are very good games, so it surprises me that Wakka is so hated.TheBlueDragoon 16:08, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure it has something to do with his accent, ya? JohnnyC
As well as that abomination, a lot of people seems to be dismissing him as racist. Now I'm not defending racism or eugenecism in any way shape or form, but that seems just a tad unfair seeing as Wakka grew up in a society that was practically homogenous, wherein he was completely indoctrinated by Yevon, which was the main Spiran establishment, so very few people would be prepared to speak up against it in any case, because they didn't know anything else. And besides, speaking out against or doubting Yevon in any way would have brought immediate and severe consequences, and not only that, but said person would be treated as a pariah by the entire community to boot (provided that they survived aforementioned consequences). Therefore, Wakka would have grown up trusting Yevon completely. The portrayal of Al Bhed as different to "normal" humans would not have helped either. As for the behaviour of the other characters, Tidus was a complete outsider, Yuna was 50% Al Bhed, Auron had long lost faith in Yevon, we never get to hear what Kimahri thinks (as far as I can remember), and Rikku is, of course, Al Bhed herself. Thus, they would have major reasons not to behave in a manner that would be considered normal to ordinary Spirans, which Wakka lacked. The only anomaly here is Lulu, but that might be just down to her character (she seems to question Yevon far more easily than anyone else) and her steadfast loyalty to Yuna. To summarise, Wakka acts this way because thats all he knows and was brought up to believe, an adequate analogy here being how someone born and bred in the Third Reich would respond to a Jew. And Wakka of course well and truly gets over this by the end of the game, so his ability to change so rapidly from his original position has to say something for him. The Man In The Black Cape 22:41, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
While the above text is completely true, that doesn't explain the soccer ball that turns people into stone. Faethinte audio 23:55, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
And a sword that summons meteors down from the sky makes so much more sense? -Nokareon
The iconographic and mythological differences between a sword and a soccer ball should be quite apparent. Yes, it does make much more sense. In its context of High Fantasy, a sword may be magical. Can you honestly say the same about a sports ball? Faethinte audio 04:02, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Jesus Almighty, I started a rant. But to add my points, I never hated Wakka. I just like Steiner better. And yeah, there are magical swords. Excalibur, although it was the scabbard that was magical. Anyway, a ball that can petrify doesn't make a lot of sense. TheBlueDragoon 04:36, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
No, it makes the same amount of sense. Swords and balls (while much less used) are both fantasy weapons. I have to give Wakka some points for originality here. He's not "typical knight, typical sword." - +DeadlySlashSword+ 11:44, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

If they wracked their brains a little, I'm pretty sure they could've come up with a better weapon for Wakka than a ball. Did I mention how satisfying it was to beat the guy to a pulp in Kingdom Hearts? JohnnyC

Aww the dopey character who had an affair with the fat, ugly, brainless queen is winning. Well, now we know what kind of women everyone here likes :>. BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 10:59, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, wait, what? Actually playing through IX reveals that Steiner and Beatrix fall in love with each other. I'm not sure Beatrix would appreciate being called fat and ugly ^^U 8bit 12:47, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Yes Steiner and Beatrix fall in love. But the fat queen he was referring to was Garnet's "mother" Queen Brahne. TheBlueDragoon 22:03, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Older Fights!

You can find older fights in the Archives for the Dragon's Neck Colosseum. All of these fights are closed, so don't bother voting. All new votes will be removed.

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