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Uwee hee hee hee! Welcome, editors, to the Dragon's Neck Colosseum! My name is Ultros the receptionist, and each week I'm taking bets as to who will win in a tussle between two characters from the Final Fantasy series! The winner gets, well, nothing. It's more of a poll, really. The Colosseum owner stuck me on this duty after Kefka was defeated, but I need the money! So what are you waiting for? Get voting! Remember, you can remain anonymous! If you have any requests for future fights, please feel free to leave a message here.

The Rules, Briefly

Functionally, this is a popularity contest. You may vote for your favorite or who you think would win in an competition between the two combatants that week.

  • You may vote only once.
  • If you are a user, please include your vote in the user section.
  • If you are not a user, please include your vote in the anonymous section.
  • To vote, leave the following "#~~~~" and you are required to leave this whether you are logged in or anonymous.
  • If you wish to comment on the fight, please leave your remarks in the peanut gallery. You are expected to conduct yourself with courtesy. Comments must relate to the fight at hand.
  • Do not alter the format of this page.

Any failure to adhere to these rules will result in your vote(s) being removed. Ties may be called if the victor won by a margin of 10% or less.

Week 111: Jenova v. Sin

Jenova's casing-AC
Dnc v
Sin
WINNER!
Undecided
Things are common enemies in Final Fantasy, and by that I mean stuff that really doesn't have good words to describe it. So which will it be, malignant parasite from space, bent on domination of a foreign planet, or the recurrent whale of humanity's reset, embodiment of exactly what it is labeled?

Votes for Jenova

  1. BlueHighwind : Jenova serves no cockroach.
  2. A vote for the true villain of Final Fantasy VII. Drake Clawfang
  3. ScatheMote 00:08, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  4. Sin is a shell created by Yu Yevon. While the beast is fearsom, there is no character to be had. Sin and the Aeon that constitutes the shell are only puppets to a dead-whim. Jenova is a living being with a twisted bloodlust that not even thousands of years of ice could contain. She started Sephiroth's twisted campaign, and technically she was the one who killed Aerith. She is the black maiden and fell mother. ClixPsi
  5. I go with Mother, I mean Jenova.NeoBahamutZEROX 00:59, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  6. Like I'm going to let FFX beat out FFVII. Besides, Jenova was the reason that Sephiroth was ultimate and almost got to god if a team of "heros" had not cut his life short. Ninja of Wind
  7. The sole reason everything went to hell in FF7. Oh, and anything that can kick my ass while decapitated gets a vote from me. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 01:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  8. Sin may be eternal, but Jenova was fused with the planet itself! Now that's mean! - Henryacores^ 01:59, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  9. Jenova can still cause chaos, even after she's killed. Plus, her kids are cute. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf (T/C) 02:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  10. Jenova's more famous. And I don't know Sin to prove it! Kuzlalala 06:18, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  11. Sora G. Strife 07:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  12. ChaosEsperVII I vote for the shining example of perfect evolution. And yea, the Sin voters must've not played VII. Someone said that Sin has been killing for 1000 years. Jenova can lay dormant for a thousand years so she's older than Sin by a longshot. Plus she destroys entire planets. The Northern crater was caused when she used the shell of a PLANET as her pseudo-spaceship and crashed it into Cloud's so she can have her way with tits inhabitants. I'm sorry, but if you can use a damn planet to bash another planet, you are badass. Plus she can take traits from other living things and infect them with her own which basically means that if she ever met SIN, she would steal all of its power and then use it as her own puppet. In short, Jenova is all powerful. And just because she has no motive for destruction (she's a damn virus for christ's sake) doesn't mean she's badly designed. She's just good at what she does. ALso she has only one line in the entire series and its a putdown. So in essence, JENOVA is just another word for ROXXOR.
  13. Definately Jenova. She is one of the most awesome already dead villains ever!- Sencilia
  14. Rocking Chair: Sin was good but Jenova was the twisted, insane monster behind Sephiroth
  15. JENOVA wiped out the Cetra, is behind Sephiroth's actions, controlled the Reunion (plus she has an awesome theme) and is the representation of pure Evil. Sin was great too, but Jenova is simply Jenova! NeoSeth 10:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  16. GenjiMasamune Okay, this one's tough. I've always loved Jenova, but I've been playing through 10 and it's awesome! Still, the Jenova fights always gave me a lot more of a challenge than the battles with Sin, Jenova walked around with no head (which in turn instigated Barret's funny line), she wiped out an entire race, and without her there would be no Cloud, Angeal, Zack, Genesis, and most importantly, no Sephiroth. Besides, her name is supposed to mean "new god." That's just bitchin' in my book.
  17. She's called 'the calamity from the skies', thats cool, plus she had a kickass theme song BritBoy 15:19, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  18. She was a sidekick for a boy that only existed to be a daydream for fangirls (Yes, I like VII). Beats Sin anytime.
  19. Jenova's witness votes for Jenova.
  20. User:Nakamura hiro Although I really love FF10, Jenova is much cooler, and FF7 is probably one of the best FF's
  21. User:SOLDIER1stJ Jenova rocks!!!
  22. Osf Yeah...
  23. Lolcakes She has a momma's boy.
  24. Jenova BIRTH, LIFE and DEATH were the most epic creatures before WEAPONS entered, and it's always fun to get wiped out with a single Aqualung. SYNTHESIS was a bit of a punchbag, but in overall Jenova is one of the most memorable creatures in the FF series. And the theme music J-E-N-O-V-A still chills my spine.Vohaul86
  25. Phoebe Hume Of course I vote for Mother... absolutely :D
  26. Lockhart - Gotta vote for Sephy's momma.
  27. Vampyro entertaiment 14:42, 18 March 2009 (UTC) MOTHER!!!!!!
  28. The Calamity from the Skies owns you. J-E-N-O-V-A, epic theme for our sweet Calamity. Karu
  29. Seriously, how can you people compare the glorious Jenova with... that thing? I'll not speak ill of Sin, sadly it's the best thing from FFX, but... to compare it with Jenova... She's infinitely better. She's the most fucking awesome thing in FFVII (and in many games, not only FF), sorry for the Mama's boy-tards. She is the real axis from the plot. She extermined the Cetra. She's the reason because WEAPONs exist. Everything that she touch, it becomes a monster and a part of her. She took Sephiroth and use him to reincarnate, for later use her old body as a living weapon. In summary, she is the Calamity from the Skies. And her theme is the most fucking awesome from FFVII (and all FFVII themes >>∞>> FFX themes). BTW, why all Sin's voters looks like they don't have played (or read the plot while playing) FFVII? To say that she don't have relevance in the plot... or she's a puppet of Sephiroth... FFVII IS Jenova. Rai Balmung, the Gargoyle.
  30. Neosamuel Sephiroth told me to vote for his Mother or else...
  31. Both are awesome, but I like Jenova better. Metus 19:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  32. FallenAngelOfYaoiHer theme is awesome, her kids are cute, and because of her, I call the Northern Crater Big Momma's House.
  33. Ah, finally a match I'm interested in seeing the outcome to! Both are essentially mindless, instinct-driven beasts of incredible organic malleability. That said, I'm going to look at this as though it were an actual fight. Sin's control of gravity magic is epic, and it tends to make itself more of a problem. However, if the 2 ever met, the logical outcome is that Jenova would win. It is not an aeon, so it cannot be possessed by Yu Yevon. Sin is basically MADE of the stuff that Jenova evolved to attack. And, finally, Sin was destroyed, and its threat ended. Even catatonic, Jenova remains a threat--and, quite frankly, it was always more of a threat--Sin roamed around for hundreds of years just destroying big cities. Jenova's purposes is to destroy a planet, then move on to others. Although Jenova is less physically impressive, it wins this hands down.Neo Bahamut 00:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
  34. Munk451 Simple, Jenova is awesome.
  35. Crap, this is probably the toughest one I've voted in yet. Jenova's awesome and all, but come on. Sin remains motionless is one of my favorite battle lines in any RPG ever. And then there's the Sin Sleeps cutscene. But.. Jenova gets my vote, because Jenova Absolute is an amazing song, and it's thanks to Jenova that someone was able to pull off the line "Out of my way, I'm going to see my mother" and make it sound badass. That shouldn't be possible.Dazuro 17:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
  36. everything about jenova was already been said... Onionknight23
  37. Clyde Arrowny J-E-N-O-V-A!
  38. I feel sorry for Sin, but I prefer J-E-N-O-V-A. She is one of the two main characters in FFVII (the other being Zack). --- User: Zak Undersn --- 20:41, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes

  1. 80.33.35.222 09:26, 17 March 2009 (UTC) Jenova doesn't have a backstory that involves a bug controlling super-powerful magic beings.
  2. 173.77.80.13318:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC) Jenova is better, bottomline.
  3. [Sorry don't know what my IP address is] ME: "Some people from Jenova's Witness visited me the other day". HC: "It's Jehova's Witness damn bastard!"
  4. 75.181.21.7 21:30, 18 March 2009 (UTC)- Jenova didn't make me kill my summons.
  5. 209.244.187.208 22:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC) Okay, this is a tough one, but I have to say Jenova. Jenova's a calamity that's caused horrible deeds, but Sin is... well, a person who sacrifices himself/herself to give Spira a chance for peace, even though it's temporary. I honostly believe that Jenova is more evil. I'm not voting on who is more villianous, just on who is more interesting.
  6. Jenova is better because she caused: all the trouble in Gaia,killed Areith,made Sephiroth evil,indirectly killed Vincent,and made Cloud a retarded asshole/vegitable that prefers Aerith over Tifa.
  7. Jenova has the cool theme.
  8. Hmmm... I'd rather vote for Mother than for Daddy-who's-become-a-whale-monster-thingy
  9. 89.130.129.81 08:24, 20 March 2009 (UTC) Sin rox, but Jenova is made of pure awesome

Votes for Sin

  1. There is beauty in a cycle of death for a lost purpose, and the many stories unfolded within it. //masterConjurer (Talk) 00:29, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  2. This is a toughie, but Sin edges it by a Whale's Whisker. (see what I did there?) Jeppo 01:05, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  3. User:Genesis rhapsodos: This is a really hard decision for me, but I chose to look at it this way. Jenova definitely felt defeatable, I mean you had an epic battle with Jenova and technically she was the cause of all said events in FFVII. However starting from the point that you attack Sin's left fin, all the way to get to Yu Yevon, that's you killing Sin. Every boss fight and battle within, think about it that way and it's like damn Sin was one hell of a monster.
  4. Hyacynth: Where Jenova is more or less everything that drives me crazy about Japanese sci-fi, Sin is more of a nod to the kaijuu genre, and I'm always down for that.
  5. It reminds me of the Cloverfield monster. Or vise versa. Know what that means? Lots and lots of death. >:3 Template:BfDsig
  6. Jenova is a mindless monster of destruction. Sin is...a mindless monster of destruction, both suck. Difference is there's more surrounding Sin than just wanton destruction for no reason which is Jenova to a T. Sin's also not the ingredient for one of the worst characters in video games. AnonyMan 09:06, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  7. Can Jenova eat you and send you to another reality? Leon5550 10:26, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  8. Because yes CookiePinguy 13:09, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  9. Sin is epic, Jenova is not and I like epicness Phade Paradox 16:19, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  10. Sin > Jenova Tornadium
  11. Oh come on people, Jenova is a puppet controled by Sephiroth, Sin is a whale that can WALK and has been blowing everything up for 1000 years, Jenova's killing spree didint last very long, did it. Besides, Braskas Final Aeon is the real main boss of FFX, so that makes sin it too.___Armageddon11(DANIELSJ14) 17:37, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  12. Sin is the end result of a twisted ruler's final plan for immortality and revenge, both of which he gets. So what he goes a little nuts after a few centuries? Jenova just started crazy.--Muchomas35 20:17, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  13. Even tho he's a videogame character,Sin's got a deep significance.KimahriRonso
  14. Mmm...this one's hard. I think both Sin and Jenova kick ass, but I'm gonna have to cast my vote to Sin. I mean Yu Yevon (who manipulates Sin) is the lamest villian and the WORST final boss, but he got all of Spira to worship his religion, even though he is using Sin to kill people off like flies. That is pretty freaking hard core and evil, if you ask me. The fact that Jenova.SYNTHESIS looks like a boob kinda freaks me out, and since Sin looks like a whale, it makes me smile :D. Oh, and I'm also gonna cosplay a cute version of Sin at the next con I'm going to. Violetmage
  15. Hard choice, but Sin is so badass that it use its killer to create its new body and continue its rampage. It's amazing. Viewtiful Vitor 06:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  16. Sin has more of a story the Jenova Mr_Darkside 06:56, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  17. This is kinda tough. Jenova is certainly creepier, but Sin is SIN! He's freaking huge, he reincarnates every time he dies. He affects the entire population of Spira for thousands of years, while Jenova only endangers it once or twice during Clouds's lifetime. --Zephyrus11 14:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  18. Heretic Ramza-- I vote Sin because its devestation was much worst, its true identity had an emotional connection with FFX's hero, and it was so powerful that it could only be fought from the inside. Jenova needed Sephiroth (or was easily manipulated by him...depending how you look at it) to wreak the little havoc within the storyline that she did.
  19. How many bosses do you know that can swim, fly, walk and manipulate gravity? And it doesn't hurt that Sin has a connection with almost every living thing in Spira. Judge Balthier 15:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  20. Because I think a strong armor is a better explanation than an ET that came to kill everyone for no reason. And to balance the votes as much as I can. -Alarielle- 19:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  21. Who needs the sad little alien woman when you have Sin :D - Copycatloki 19:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  22. Spiral of Death >>> Reunion Theory Chocolancer 19:46, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  23. Sin is a little bit more deeper than your cliche evil alien that wants to destroy everything Trio1000 17:32, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
  24. Summonerluna-- This is quite tough as they both speak highly to the history of their respective worlds, and both are dependent upon a human (Jenova may have succeeded as a force of nature before, but it was Shinra and Sephiroth, after all, who allowed her will to resurface), but my vote must be for Sin. Jenova speaks more to natural history and a certain political sect, but Sin is a statement of not just the history, but the culture, and influence of Spira spanning centuries.
  25. I liked the scene where Sin destroys Kilika. That and Op Mi'hen. those were pretty kickass moments. AtmaCrisis 08:12, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
  26. Have to vote for sin for the obvious religous reference and the overwhelming simularity to Leviathan.--Gerdat14 11:34, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
  27. Sin FTW! he has minions (PLURAL, not just Sephiroth.) He sends his flesh to fight too, Jenova can't do that! Besides you also go inside this leviathan. you dont go in jenova (you'd probably catch some alien STD anyway) And he manipulates gravity and space! what can that whore do> Blow bubbles and breath fire? BORING! not to mention, Sin has an Overdrive. What's Jenova got W-Lazer, Agualung, Beta, and Trine. THAT"S FREAING IT! and to top it all off. the whole fight against the aeons thing was a lot harder than that pussy Sephiroth. Derum
  28. Rydiaofmist: This is really close for me as I love them both. Sin is epically huge, while Jenova is mysteriously creepy. However, since Sin is so inextricably linked to the people and world of Spira, to me it had more of lasting presence in X than Jenova had in VII.
  29. I thought Sin was to easy in the fights and Jenova's theme is better!!!- DarkShuyin
  30. Sin has a larger role in the storyline then dying and pretending to be someones mom to make them do the dirty work for you. Plus, the manipulative witch from another planet thing has been reused to much, a giant flying whale made of dead people with the power to destory anything he wants with near-invincibility, thats what i call unique. Gyromite 04:09, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes

  1. 78.144.228.240 20:06, 17 March 2009 (UTC) Jenova's body parts create monsters, right? well Sin's scales, essentially shreds of it's skin, create some pretty big beasties, that's just one of the reasons Sin is more kickass than Jenova. secondly the religious backstory behind Sin's creation and the fact it actively terrorises an entire world for 1000 years is impressive, Jenova is just some trumped up alien.
  2. I vote Sin, because people give too much credit to Jenova. After all, she was nothing more than an extension of Sephiroth, during FFVII and AC.

And to whoever said "Sin may be eternal, but Jenova was fused with the planet itself! Now that's mean!"... No. Jenova was fused with Sephiroth, not the planet.

  1. I vote for Sin because FFX was really the first FF for me. It's not that I hate Jenova (well, I do hate her/it because she/it is supposed to be a villain and all but w.e.) but Sin's got this special place in me. -Anixe
  2. I vote Sin because despite being a shell, he was still Jecht in X. Before the final battle, we get a glimpse of how tough Sin would be if he cut loose, messing up the moon's orbit and tearing up the landscape. Jenova couldn't do anything on that scale in that short time. Jenova wiped out the Ancients, but Sin destroyed a city he was made to protect. Plus, killing Sin had a kind of heart wrenching after effect that killing Jenova couldn't even have for Sephiroth. and I admit to a bit of bias because I've played X 4 times and it was my first, but I did still play VII, just like X more.

Peanut Gallery

I only joined recently, so I'm still very new to this all. However, I've noticed that many of the annonymous votes tend to get deleted before the final tally is made. Does someone just delete them or are they conside invalid? ClixPsi

For an anonymous vote to count, its owner must sign his or her IP address to it. Most do not, from either stubbornness or stupidity. (One can rarely tell.) //masterConjurer (Talk) 00:42, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Why did the numbering start over on the user votes? Can someone fix that so it doesn't become a problem later? Ninja of Wind

Kupuntu forgot to put a # before his/her post. This is where reading instructions helps. //masterConjurer (Talk) 21:04, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Actually, he put the # back, I just accidentally deleted it instead of deleting the whole vote (wrong voting section). Let's wipe the slate clean prematurely so people will actually notice, yes? 8bit 21:16, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
In my opinion we should try to fix the problem votes and tell the users to do it correctly before we go on a deleting spree. //masterConjurer (Talk) 22:06, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

BlueHighwind made the most amazing point ever Osf 18:46, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

What cockroach? Where? The only thing I can see that is close to as ugly as a cockroach here is that picture of Jenova. //masterConjurer (Talk) 00:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Ya, srsly. Can we get an actual picture of Jenova instead of the Jenova Doll? - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

--Gerdat14 14:43, 18 March 2009 (UTC) New Jenova pic added. Damn I suck.

I'm beginning to think people are making bogus user profiles even though its none of my business. BTW that jenova pick is gross please use the jenova doll. Judge Balthier 15:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
That image very much makes me wish to throw up. I meant that Jenova is ugly. Just Jenova. Not a specific picture. The new image doesn't help the case against me in the least. //masterConjurer (Talk) 16:09, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Beware: Changing the image will probably invoke the wrath of TA. ScatheMote 16:19, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Luckily, I've never been that dumb. (I may have had close calls...) //masterConjurer (Talk) 16:24, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
One month ago, i was looking at jenova's profile. While i was scrolling down i seen that image that i'll never forget. The image of her HEADLESS BODY!!! I've seen that image before when i was a child. That's another reason why i will never play FFVII. Judge Balthier 18:00, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

--Gerdat14 19:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC) In response to Rai's Comment, the term you should have used is MOST, and can you think of a reason that Jenova wanted to destroy the world? Don't try to say the "Impure" clause, because SIN has already won that in the sense that he is a biblical diety. Oh, and TA should really start to want to find me and speak with me soon due to all the VANDELISM i've created on the enemy pages.

I can't find this "Rai" person, but the basic idea is that Jenova is sort of a virus for planets. It has no "higher reason," Sephiroth has the higher reason, which is why HE'S the villain. Jenova is purely instinctual, and really, so was Sin. The more complex motivations it has belong (or, should I say, "belonged") to Yu Yevon.

On an unrelated note, I'm sort of disappointed that this isn't closer. I like some of the reasonings given, and would have liked to see more of a defense put up for Sin.Neo Bahamut 02:46, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Jenova is a brain-dead puppet. She/it isn't a character in the story, but a plot-device.

So I guess Sin is not a brain-dead puppet? Do you remember who was the one being controlled by a tumorous cockroach? --- User: Zak Undersn --- 01:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Do not compare Sin with Jenova. Sin had a mind of it's own(Jecht's) and could fight Yu Yevon's influence, a little. Jenova was litterally brain-dead, unaware of everything around her. It was incapable of doing anything on her own, and every word, action, and thought showed by her, was just Sephiroth acting through her body. We can't say that Yu Yevon was Sin. But it's not so absurd to say that Sephiroth was Jenova, during FFVII and AC. They basically merged together.

You know, I have played through FFX an uncountable number of times, and I have still never seen the cockroach people are talking about, and this new talk of a tumor confuses me further. What I can remember is playing FFVII and seeing the most disgusting thing ever, Jenova. My message: Sin and everything related to sin is more aesthetically pleasing than Jenova, so stop talking about ugly things related to Sin. //masterConjurer (Talk) 02:04, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah i know, most of the people here only vote for jenova because she's in FFVII. SHE IS SO CREEPY!!! Judge Balthier 17:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I voted her because I like her and I like creepy things D: Karu

Hey guys...sign your posts! - +DeadlySlashSword+ 15:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I'd prefer to be anonymous....p.s. that was me in the above! Judge Balthier 17:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

With anonymity comes a lack of credit. Simply to prove a point, I claim that I wrote what Judge Balthier just claimed that he wrote. //masterConjurer (Talk) 23:33, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, BH, I guess I got used to not doing the tildes. This is going to be something of a bitchfest, so consider yourself warned. 1: How come, on the FF wiki, there are STILL a bunch of people so ignorant about just what these 2 can do? "Sephiroth is Jenova's minion," and "Jenova can't send her body parts out to fight" keep coming up. Guess what? Neither of them are true! If anything, Jenova's body is moreversatile. It can be reduced to a cluster of cells & still keep going! 2: Master Conjurer, you know exactly what he's talking about. 3: Again, to Master Conjurer, while I did mention Sin's aesthetic superiority, no one's calling Yu Yevon a cockroach because he's ugly. They're calling him that because, well, he looks like an insect! 4: The claim that people are only voting for Jenova because she's in FFVII fill me with rage of the Aztec Variety. How is it ANY different with Sin? What, you think there are not people who've never even tried FFVII, and were just enamored with Sin from the start? Several people have expressed that they like both Sin and Jenova, but simply prefer one to the other. 5: The internet is not serious business. Please do not edit simply to tell me that I'm overreacting--I assure you, I don't have to be angry to start bitching. Do, however, feel free to edit to tell me if I've misinterpreted something that was said, or whatever.Neo Bahamut 02:46, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
I wish to address the parts that were meant for me, numbered appropriately:
2. I do know what they're talking about, and sarcastically claim not to as a way of showing my disagreement.
3. They do think Yu Yevon's ugly in a way. Admit it. You wanted the final boss to be something bigger, cooler-looking, and possibly that could actually hurt you. Instead, FFX puts the little guy after the big guy. That is an ugly tactic in your mind. (I actually enjoyed the break a couple of times.)
I now tire of arguing. I'm going to go mess with a family tree. //masterConjurer (Talk) 03:01, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
And THAT'S why I advised people to edit if they thought I was getting something wrong. I wasn't sure if you were trying to be sarcastic or, for whatever reason, just weren't making the connection. As for "ugly," I think that's twisting the word a bit too much. And no, I did not mind what Yu Yevon was, especially after that prick Braska's Final Aeon. I can understand some peoples' complaints, but they also have to realize that, if everything had a One Winged Angel &/or Crossed the Bishonen Line, it'd get old sooner or later. Quite frankly, Yu Yevon fit in with exactly what they said he was: A mindless entity, devoid of humanity, that existed only to summon. Now, what I DO have a problem with, is that they didn't expand upon him in X-2, and I do have a little WTF as to why he bacame a TICK, in particular....

And, although it's not really important, a few other things I liked about Yu Yevon; His "possessing" form was basically a dark pyrefly, which I thought was cool for some odd reason; That warped Hymn of the Fayth that plays when he emerges; The way he makes you fight the Aeons (this may sound kind of lame, but I actually got at little attached to them); and when you sit back and think that, even with no consciousness left, he was coordinating the actions of hundreds of summons and summoners, that is just awesome.

...Mess with a family tree...?Neo Bahamut 03:19, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

My step-mother sent me an invitation to some family genealogy site. It turned out to be really lame, so I'm back. //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 03:41, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Week 110: Maria v. Rosa

Amano Maria
Dnc v
Rosafarrell
WINNER!
Rosa
37 to 22 ½
They probably weren't singing about Maria in Final Fantasy VI, but which one of these women are more likely to have such a ballad written for them?
Rosafarrell

Votes for Maria

  1. BlueHighwind : For that boob plate. What other reason is there to vote for anybody this week?
  2. Because Maria can do everything Rosa does, and more. - Henryacores^ 01:30, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  3. Cloud 9000 01:47, 10 March 2009 (UTC)cloud9000 maria is much cooler
  4. Well, If I remember correctly, I suggested the fight because they're both archers and Maria is a Black Mage and Rosa a White Mage. And we all know Black Mages rule (yes, yes I know FFII doesn't really have a job system, let it be.) Plus, Maria is powerful enough to defy the law of gravity with that er... attire.Winged Lion 01:44, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  5. Since both have the same personality as a plank, I'll go with battle usefulness, but since they'r both pretty much archers with magics, I'll go with the game they'r in, but since FFII and FFIV are on my bottom list, I'll go with their looks, and booooy you know who I likes best! Leon5550
  6. This one a bit unfair isn't it Maria? CookiePinguy 10:52, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  7. I'll go with Maria User:SOLDIER1stJ 7:40, 10 March 2009 9 (UTC)
  8. I like Maria more. Can't really pinpoint why, but she seems like she could have been an interesting character in my opinion.--Otherarrow 15:19, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  9. OK, I'm a bit biased. FFII was my first Final Fantasy, so I have some fond memories of the cast. That said, neither woman has a memorable personality or backstory. The only thing that makes Rosa "better" in terms of plot is being Cecil's girl. Both had a lot of plot potential (the relationship between Maria and Leon; the love triangel of FFIV). In combat, Maria whips the floor with Rosa. Even if you keep Maria a archer/black mage archtype, she'll turn out much more powerful than Maria. Because of weapon system of FFII, Maria will end up a superior archer, while Rosa's archery will largely be more secondary. In terms of magic, I've always liked black magic more than white magic. Now, of course, Maria can use white magic as well as any weapons she wants. In the end, Maria is whatever you want. Rosa is just your white mage with a lackluster bow. ClixPsi
  10. I have recently played FFII, so I would know that Maria is way better than Rosa. This fight is mostly about how the gameplay in FFII and FFIV let the characters gain and use abilities. Maria can be equiped with any weapon or spell and she can learn how to use it because of the game lets you customize your characters. Rosa is stuck with the same weapon type and pre-programed spells the entire game. Ninja of Wind
  11. Just cause PaladinCecil is annoying OwlEye 22:11, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  12. Hmm, an archer with predetermined white magic, or a character whose statistics are no more than a suggestion? //masterConjurer (Talk) 23:57, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  13. I prefer Maria's character design to Rosa's. — YuanSaluto!Acta 10:53, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
  14. There's something about Maria that I like more. I wonder what it is? Chocolancer 15:19, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
  15. I haven't played FFII, but I just have such an intense dislike for Rosa... and Black Mages own. SeraphSummoner 21:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
  16. Rosa's an all right character, but she's in love with one of the stupidest men in the series. Maria also never gets any stupid, contrived Damsel-in-Distress sequences and she spends the game as a freedom fighter searching for her brother Leon, and that story made the ending of FFII quite bittersweet. Eowynjedi 19:34, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
  17. I only know Maria, so I vote for her.Kuzlalala 00:27, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
  18. Because she knows better that to fall in love with cecil --Yuffie2211 03:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
  19. Maria could be customized into whatever the player wanted. Sorry Rosa! Acid Snake
  20. To be honest? I only vote Maria to piss off PaladinCecil ; ) Arcanedude34
  21. I really liked this game, lol, I prefer Maria over Rosa and since you can customise her, she was quite fun to toy around with. Metus 19:33, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
  22. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Anonymous Votes

  1. 78.148.231.127 08:01, 10 March 2009 (UTC) because chances are she's going to lose, plus rosa was irritating with her simpering over kain and cecil, maria didn't do much to get on my nerves.

Votes for Rosa

  1. Rosa, as boring and uninteresting as she is, has more that 5 lines, which is six more than Maria got. ScatheMote 01:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  2. Soren 4ever 01:19, 10 March 2009 (UTC) Neither of them are very developed characters, but Rosa was at least had some of her own plot points, as few as they were.
  3. A certain user will know why. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 01:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  4. I know who Rosa is. Drake Clawfang 01:55, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  5. Just because I know Rosa more. Judge Balthier 02:38, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  6. Both of them aren't anything write home about as far as character and personlaity goes. They're not bad, but not extremely remarkable. I'm going with Rosa here, mainly because she has better teamates who managed to mostly stay alive. You can't dislike Maria, she was in the first FF that attemtpted characteritze it Main Party. AnonyMan
  7. Rosa was my first heroine and she is awesome. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf (T/C) 03:02, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  8. I'd rather look no pants than that creature bra-thing. Lolcakes
  9. Because Kain Highwind is in FFIV. Soldier of Light
  10. IV>II Derum
  11. Best white mage ever. RowdyCMoore
  12. She started what we know today as the white mage template, and fandom in general punishes her and takes her for granted for being the first to step foot in new territory. The "stereotypical white mage traits" people expect in a white mage didn't exist until Rosa entered the picture, and her personality was actually unique before later characters in the series copied her. Leading to the present-day view of her as having "the personality of a plank." PaladinCecil 07:59, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  13. Sora G. Strife 08:25, 10 March 2009 (UTC): She saved my butt several times, both outside and inside battle.
  14. NeosamuelNot even a contest we got someone who FF2 could have left forgotten and it wouldn't change much and then we got Rosa who for is one of the most usefull characters of FF4's roster and she is the love intrest of the main hero. Plus lets face it Rosa could kick Maria's arse even if she had Ultima.
  15. They both suck. But I don't want a tie this week. Template:BfDsig
  16. Faethinverba volant : Rosa reminds me of my type of girl: quiet, gentle and caring. But anyway, I was tempted to flame her just for the sake of poking a user whom I shall not name even though I shall certainly link
  17. Mr_Darkside Rosa seems better to me. 18:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  18. I'm voting for Rosa cuz I played FFIV and she's a great character, and I want her to win so PaladinCecil will SHUT UP already. Squallinoa 08 19:21, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  19. Meh. Normally, I'd go with the one in FFII, but I choose the White Mage who stays as one. Sure, Maria can do everything Rosa can do and more, Rosa's stat growth is more suited for her role as White Mage. Plus, Rosa's secondary job is a physical one. ~ Pikmin Master 20:15, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  20. Maria is a blobbish character. Rosa's not. And, WM > BM. -Alarielle- 20:18, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  21. Because I like IV. ans she has BOOBS!!!! 1stclasswarrior 20:48, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  22. Bartz235 Rosa is the second best female in the series IMO!! Hands down best white mage in the series and the most devoted girl to her man in the FF universe!! Also not only a white mage but an archer as well. And as for all of PaladinCecil's rants I agree with him every word he said. Rosa is only "boring" because she was a first. Mario is a boring character but got remade so many times people don't see him as the boring mario. Same with everyone's beloved Link yet his newer reincarnations are awesome but no one notices his very first pathetic form. THe "first" always has to suffer.....
  23. Maria...Maria...hmm...must not be a very memorable character.--JohnnyC 23:44, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
  24. Cluna 06 01:15, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
  25. MTC: If I don't vote for Rosa, PaladinCecil would hammer me instead.
  26. NeoBahamutZEROX 01:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
  27. Rosa is one of my fav characters, and is going to be my first vote in a long time. Philip Mccann 08:04, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
  28. She's useful. And hot. Hexed 08:07, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
  29. awww... i like both... but i like Rosa more..... OnionKnight23
  30. AtmaCrisis
  31. Rosa wins this fight, hands downBlackheart1991 12:54, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
  32. Armageddon11(DANIELSJ14) 20:41, 13 March 2009 (UTC)Close, as I don't like ether, but I like 4 better than 1 2 so...
  33. RoxasXIII Roxasxiii 22:33, 13 March 2009 (UTC) Y'know, this was kinda hard fro me, cause I never felt any kind of attachment to either of them, but after seeing Rosa in the DS remake of IV, I kinda have to go with her.
  34. Sorceress Heartilly16:05, 14 March 2009 (UTC) I vote for Rosa because I like her character, she's the main healer but at the same time is a decent attacker and has perfect accuracy with her aim ability with bows and arrows.
  35. Rosa, of course. Without her, FFIV becomes impossible. 8bit 17:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
  36. Rose from how far I played seems loving and motherly. =]--BigCubby 12:46, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes

  1. 75.181.21.7 22:00, 10 March 2009 (UTC)- She is hot in the DS version, what other reason do I need?
  2. 68.237.212.166 21:02, 14 March 2009 (UTC)Uhh, i think Rosa has a better personality and looks so much cooler.

Peanut Gallery

I can't decide which one to vote for because I can't seem to find anything to like or hate in either side. Lack of personality will do that to ya'. --BlueHighwind 01:15, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Y'know, I'm really glad I gave this fight a second chance and resubmitted it. Now we'll see if it was a good idea. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 01:36, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Uh...this is a hard one for me...Cluna 06 02:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
If you guys put Rosa's FFIV:DS FMV pic, I'll vote for her (she's a looker in that game) but as far a Amano's art goes, Maria's better Leon5550 11:29, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
No, keep your vote. You already passed judgment on her. PaladinCecil 11:32, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Even if she somehow wins, most people are only voting for her for knowing who she is or because she's connected to a character they ACTUALLY like, not for Rosa's own good qualities (which some voting for her don't even think she has). Given that and the crap said about her in past matches, I consider this a loss for her either way. PaladinCecil 09:41, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Faethin, most of my current page is ranting in my own space in order to spare the DNC itself. You'd just be reaffirming what I've slowly learned to accept from the "fandom" over the past two years, though. PaladinCecil 14:46, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry to be blunt, but PaladinCecil needs to take a chill pill. His girl's gonna win a battle and he still can't enjoy it. I had to watch Celes settle for a draw to a much inferior character, and I can take it in stride. It amazes me that someone would take so much time and copy space to whine and moan over a video game character. RowdyCMoore

It's about more than that, but okay. And it's not really a win in my eyes since people can't avoid saying how much they think she sucks for five seconds to look for positives instead. Celes was up against a modern character with popularity of the new school kids, and most people who voted for her talked about how they liked her. Rosa's up against an earlier character, and several votes talk about how the voter thinks she sucks but they'll take her over Maria due to her associations. PaladinCecil 15:35, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree with all that. I'm just saying, don't let it get to you. So we have a lot of people too stupid to understand Rosa's character. Don't spew venom at them; poke fun at their stupidity. It's what I did with my FF Adventure walkthrough. Rowdy
That would be easier to do if it weren't for how horrendously the "fandom" has mutilated what Rosa's like over the years, and how Square-Enix caters to the general not giving a damn about her in FF4:TA by forcing an action she'd never take just to remove her from most of the game. Plus, two years, people still treating the character like crap, etc. Thank you for your words, though, they do make me feel a little better. PaladinCecil 00:47, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Did some research on Maria, still don't care who she is. Can she cast Curaga and Esuna on the party for free? Until then, I'd still prefer Rosa. Miracle saved my ass during the Zeromus EG fight. Drake Clawfang 22:04, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I didn't use Miracle. Since Rosa can't wield dual blood swords (or deal hella-damage barehanded), I prefer Maria. //masterConjurer (Talk) 00:04, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Consider i've voted for they both --- User: Zak Undersn --- 14:52, 15 March 2009 (UTC).

Older Fights!

You can find older fights in the Archives for the Dragon's Neck Colosseum. All of these fights are closed, so don't bother voting. All new votes will be removed.

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