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# Steiner is one of the funniest characters in any final fantasy game. [[Special:Contributions/198.7.245.93|198.7.245.93]] 16:52, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 
# Steiner is one of the funniest characters in any final fantasy game. [[Special:Contributions/198.7.245.93|198.7.245.93]] 16:52, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 
#Rusty FTW[[Special:Contributions/213.13.227.118|213.13.227.118]] 17:57, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 
#Rusty FTW[[Special:Contributions/213.13.227.118|213.13.227.118]] 17:57, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
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#Rusty--[[Special:Contributions/189.18.227.43|189.18.227.43]] 12:40, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 
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Revision as of 12:40, 5 September 2009

DNC Logo Idear


Uwee hee hee hee! Welcome, editors, to the Dragon's Neck Colosseum! My name is Ultros the receptionist, and each week I'm taking bets as to who will win in a tussle between two characters from the Final Fantasy series! The winner gets, well, nothing. It's more of a poll, really. The Colosseum owner stuck me on this duty after Kefka was defeated, but I need the money! So what are you waiting for? Get voting! Remember, you can remain anonymous! If you have any requests for future fights, please feel free to leave a message here.

The Rules, Briefly

Functionally, this is a popularity contest. You may vote for your favorite or who you think would win in an competition between the two combatants that week.

  • You may vote only once.
  • If you are a user, please include your vote in the user section.
  • If you are not a user, please include your vote in the anonymous section.
  • To vote, leave the following "#~~~~" and you are required to leave this whether you are logged in or anonymous.
  • If you wish to comment on the fight, please leave your remarks in the peanut gallery. You are expected to conduct yourself with courtesy. Comments must relate to the fight at hand.
  • Do not alter the format of this page.

Any failure to adhere to these rules will result in your vote(s) being removed. Ties may be called if the victor won by a margin of 10% or less.

Steiner v. Wakka

AmanoSteiner
Dnc v
WINNER!
Undecided
Both of these guys have a good heart... but they both come across as a bit hapless.

Votes for Steiner

  1. Steiner easy. He's from the better game and more importantly the better character, he's also unintentionally hilarious. Wakka is one of the cooler FFX character, however. AnonyMan 05:08, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  2. Faethinte audio : Religious zealots with stupid weapons ftfl.
  3. I see this guy better.Kuzlalala Squee! 09:39, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  4. Whoever voted for Wakka should perish. Kyrel 11:42, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  5. Steiner was pretty beastly with his sword arts, rare super-strength trance, and his magic sword abilities with Vivi. Sure, his best weapon required some major hacks/elite skills (Excalibur II *glare*), but he was an easy to utilize character. Wakka, on the other hand, seemed less important. Tidus eventually became fast enough to hit the ranged enemies, and Wakka's strength and speed always seemed mid-of-the-road. Plus, his best overdrive abilities come from far more blitzball playing than I could stomach. ClixPsi
  6. I love Ol' Rusty! This guy made FFIX a hilarious game, which is one of the reasons why I love it so much. Violetmage♥ 13:23, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  7. I hate both, but since Rusty is from IX, there's no other choice... SquallisbetterthanCloud 14:01, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  8. Steiner is my favorite character from my favorite game! Umbrella Officer
  9. i never played IX, i just hate wakka. dunno why, i just always got irritable every time his continued existence was proven.Akbaroth 15:53, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  10. I vote for good old Rusty! Rusty and Vivi were the ultimate duo Bruntie2 16:45, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  11. Wakka sucks!--Ltfabretti Dragoon 17:02, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  12. Steiner has his own sound effect when ever he runs or jumps, carries a meaty big ass sword around with him and can kill something sooner than look at it. Wakka is a bigoted ball thrower. Hamfruitcake 09 17:35, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  13. It's Rusty! How can I not vote for him, even if he is a loud-mouthed idiot?--StragusLore 17:39, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  14. 'Cause Blitzball really annoys me, ya? The.DreadnoughT 20:21, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  15. Wow... just wow... we really ARE running out of fights, aren't we? Wakka is made of fail, and Steiner gets to bone with Beatrix, so there.Winged Lion 20:49, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  16. BlueHighwind : Because one sucks, and one is awesome. Everybody to my right is a moron.
  17. Even though I like both characters, Steiner just edges it out for me. He had a good story and he was just a better character overall. Plus he has a cool nickname. Rusty. Anyway, I vote Steiner. This is a good fight. TheBlueDragoon 21:44, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  18. Mystic Knight. Done. Pikmin Master 21:51, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  19. Masamune: HAHAHAHAHA! Too FUNNY!
  20. Steiner was goofy. Wakka was just annoying as Hell. JohnnyC
  21. I am a huge fan of Wakka, but Steiner has more power. SuperGuyverUSA 7:49, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  22. Personality wise, both are very similar, with Steiner blindly following Brahne and Wakka blindly following Yevon (which is why I suggested this fight), but Steiner has more comic relief, and that is where my vote lies. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 00:03, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  23. Steiner >>>> Wakka. And Beatrix's heart belongs to him :3 Karu
  24. This guy actually has the sense to fight with a sword instead of a blitzball. He is definatly the better character.- Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2-
  25. Clank clank clank. Template:BfDsig
  26. Overly religious, bigoted zealot with a ball for a weapon or a fighter with a name I can stand? Mmmm... Bangaa Red Mage 01:54, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  27. Sure, Steiner's clueless, but, if anything, you can at least say he was dedicated to his sworn duty. -- File:FFIII-nes-sage.gif Saethori (T / C) - 03:19, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  28. Steiner. Extremely useful throughout the game, and also, DOOMSDAY SWORD... I dunno, he's also much funnier. -Nokareon
  29. Cloudiroth Love Steiner, hate Wakka. Easy one.
  30. Rusty is one of the best characters in IX, not only because he's a heavy hitter, but also because, without him, there would be only half as many funny moments in the game. Silver Dragon XXVIII 19:52, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  31. Are you KIDDING ME!?! Steiner has so much on Wakka! He's the strongest (generally speaking) character in FFIX and has such a funny, yet noble and admirable character. Wakka is kinda like... a lesser version of that. Yzz 21:06, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  32. Leogon255 23:46, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  33. Princess! Princess! Princess! 8bit 00:02, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  34. Either Wakka, the stupud racist, or Steiner, the hopless knight. At least Steiner has good taste in women.--Xepscern 01:56, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  35. Steiner= Love Boogum 02:49, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  36. We all love Rusty. --wee187 04:31, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  37. FF9 FTW!!!!!!!!! NeoExdeath 07:19, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  38. -SHOCK! -ロル Lol Cakes オケス 11:16, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  39. That concept art of Steiner by Yoshitaka Amano is the best concept art hes done for a Final Fantasy. That being said, Steiner is more unique than people think considering his kind of story has only been explored by another Final Fantasy character once (Basch). I think Steiner's one of the best characters in the game, considering he breaks the traditional mold of the loyal knight eventually and develops his own reasons for serving Alexandria. Also, Steiner can wield the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX and one of the most powerful weapons in all of Final Fantasy. Adelbert
  40. Okay, first off, I hate these two evenly. the onlt reason I'm voting for Steiner is because he's a knight. what the fuck is Wakka? A Sport-class? Derum
  41. Steiner is a knight with the silly one-mindedness that is the ultimate comedic releif character. I'm surprised Wakka's scoring as well as he is. Legend of Fantasy 19:46, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  42. Sunpanda2012
  43. Really easy to decide, Rusty is just awesome.- Saraija Merinas
  44. Two words: Pickle Fetish. Bwahaha! -Zidane19
  45. I really like both characters, but Steiner just wins out. Avieure 03:54, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  46. Zenigata! Steiner is a good character, I like him.Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 15:19, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  47. I vote Steiner. At least he has a real weapon. Wakka's ball will hardly even hurt Steiner. Dragoon Knight
  48. Clink, Clink. I vote for Sir Rusts-A-Lot go Stiener!! Uoper 12 Shinryu-ffv 22:36, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  49. Steiner is dumb and much weaker than Wakka, but Wakka is dumb AND racist AND bigot.

Anonymous Votes

  1. final fantsy IX is one of my favourite games and Steiner is one of the reasons. Go Rusty!!!
  2. Steiner is way cooler and funnier than wakka go Steiner
  3. Gotta go with Rusty on this one. Despite his serious and stoic nature, he is easily one of the most humerous things about Final Fantasy IX. Besides, he has a good heart and is very honorable and noble. You've got to admire that. Not only that, but he gets Beatrix. Come on, just being able to land her as a girlfriend alone is enough to make good ol' Rusty superior. 173.63.176.221
  4. FFIX is my fav and Steiner has those clanking noises you just can't beat ;P -maikyuu173.63.176.221
  5. I have to go with Steiner on this one,because Magic sword is WAY better than any of Wakka's skills.
  6. Wakka is from a better game, but Steiner is just better, for obvious reasons. Steiner wears armour, Wakka wears an ugly shirt. Steiner has a sword, Wakka has a beachball. Steiner worships Vivi, Wakka worships Yu Yevon (who just turns out to be the game's main villan.)-173.35.180.242 21:29, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  7. Steiner could be dramatic and provide comic relief at the same time. And I got bored midway through playing 10, so Steiner wins.
  8. Steiner is one of the funniest characters in any final fantasy game. 198.7.245.93 16:52, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  9. Rusty FTW213.13.227.118 17:57, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  10. Rusty--189.18.227.43 12:40, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

Votes for Wakka

  1. Gamer2127 05:29, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  2. This vote stems from my inexplicable hatred of Steiner. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:51, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  3. He's sort of a minor character in X, yet he's still better than a lot of major characters throughout the series.Neo Bahamut 06:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC
  4. Wakka is a way cooler name, though steiner isn't half bad, - I could say Wakka all day! Flaremmm
  5. An OK Character from my favorite game vs a horrible, annoying, lame and queen obsessed character who looks weird (aka Steiner) Easy choice. BoAKaNRikkusmallsig 08:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  6. KaiserPaladin 08:58, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  7. Though I never see him again in KH, plus he married Lulu! - Silver Mage Omega FF5 11:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  8. I like X more than IX. Besides, Wakka shut up for a bit, Rusty never did. TomServo101 11:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  9. Steiner was kinda annoying(well very annoying) and besides Wakka is the best at killing aerial foes. Bjarnster 14:23 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  10. Rinoa leonheart 16:42, September 1, 2009 (UTC) O YA
  11. mmm steiner is too goofy... i prefer wakka 'cause he's also a blitzball player!Gilgamesh 18:56, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  12. Soren 4ever 17:31, September 1, 2009 (UTC)This is a tough choice, both are from great games and are good characters; but I loved Wakka from the first time I saw him, whereas I had to grow to like Steiner.
  13. Sure, he's a racist douchebag, but for combat, he's pretty damn good. I gave one of his weapons stonestrike, poisonstrike, and darkstrike, which, while not equaling "Living Chainsaw" certainly made things easier to deal with. Now if I can just give him Quick Hit Exdeath64 18:59, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  14. Not just another character wielding a sword BritPenance 11:46, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  15. Steiner was a clichéd knight, while Wakka was an overzealous athlete. I go for originality. SamSandy 18:07, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  16. Yes he has a ball as a weapon but its very useful if used rite Mr_Darkside 20:50, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
  17. him and tee-dus are gonna do a little explorin today Ningacom 20:26, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  18. Go Wakka... TKOTL
  19. Wakka--DarkTriforce 22:32, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  20. Wakka Wakka Wakka WAKKA! Kefka44
  21. Wakka may just be the funniest FF Character Ever. "Eh! Get a Room you two!" --CLOUD 02:46, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
  22. X pwnz. -wtdrmfrthwbzn

Anonymous Votes

  1. 121.223.138.79 09:02, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  2. Wakka was cool, i liked IX but steiner was my least fav thing about it. so WAKKA!!
  3. Wakka was and will be my favorite light hearted character!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peanut Gallery

I'm back. And I missed 2 good fights. Albeit, the whole Sin vs. Vegnagun thing was depressingly one-sided. In any case, I have no clue who Steiner is, but I doubt he developes as much as Wakka.Neo Bahamut 06:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Yay! My suggestion got honoured! Now, it's just the dilemma of who to vote for... Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 11:31, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

This fight is pointless... btw, I though BH was long gone?? Am I having an illusion?Winged Lion 20:58, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Unless the Patriots are playing some cruel trick on us, no. The.DreadnoughT 22:45, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
I think he's stil around, he's just not up to much and is no longer properly working at the wiki. The Man In The Black Cape 23:22, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
I thought he left too. I remember him saying on the DNC page a few months back that he was leaving the Wiki. Its good that he's still around though. TheBlueDragoon 19:08, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Ouch! Another fight where I'll have to think. Good suggestion Jeppo. TheBlueDragoon 21:28, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

This is another landslide...much like Sin and Vegnagun...after reading Steiner's comments, I felt stupid voting for Wakka... --Silver Mage Omega FF5 10:09, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
What surprises me most is that this is a landslide. I never imagined it would be another landslide. Both are very good games, so it surprises me that Wakka is so hated.TheBlueDragoon 16:08, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure it has something to do with his accent, ya? JohnnyC
As well as that abomination, a lot of people seems to be dismissing him as racist. Now I'm not defending racism or eugenecism in any way shape or form, but that seems just a tad unfair seeing as Wakka grew up in a society that was practically homogenous, wherein he was completely indoctrinated by Yevon, which was the main Spiran establishment, so very few people would be prepared to speak up against it in any case, because they didn't know anything else. And besides, speaking out against or doubting Yevon in any way would have brought immediate and severe consequences, and not only that, but said person would be treated as a pariah by the entire community to boot (provided that they survived aforementioned consequences). Therefore, Wakka would have grown up trusting Yevon completely. The portrayal of Al Bhed as different to "normal" humans would not have helped either. As for the behaviour of the other characters, Tidus was a complete outsider, Yuna was 50% Al Bhed, Auron had long lost faith in Yevon, we never get to hear what Kimahri thinks (as far as I can remember), and Rikku is, of course, Al Bhed herself. Thus, they would have major reasons not to behave in a manner that would be considered normal to ordinary Spirans, which Wakka lacked. The only anomaly here is Lulu, but that might be just down to her character (she seems to question Yevon far more easily than anyone else) and her steadfast loyalty to Yuna. To summarise, Wakka acts this way because thats all he knows and was brought up to believe, an adequate analogy here being how someone born and bred in the Third Reich would respond to a Jew. And Wakka of course well and truly gets over this by the end of the game, so his ability to change so rapidly from his original position has to say something for him. The Man In The Black Cape 22:41, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
While the above text is completely true, that doesn't explain the soccer ball that turns people into stone. Faethinte audio 23:55, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
And a sword that summons meteors down from the sky makes so much more sense? -Nokareon
The iconographic and mythological differences between a sword and a soccer ball should be quite apparent. Yes, it does make much more sense. In its context of High Fantasy, a sword may be magical. Can you honestly say the same about a sports ball? Faethinte audio 04:02, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Jesus Almighty, I started a rant. But to add my points, I never hated Wakka. I just like Steiner better. And yeah, there are magical swords. Excalibur, although it was the scabbard that was magical. Anyway, a ball that can petrify doesn't make a lot of sense. TheBlueDragoon 04:36, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
No, it makes the same amount of sense. Swords and balls (while much less used) are both fantasy weapons. I have to give Wakka some points for originality here. He's not "typical knight, typical sword." - +DeadlySlashSword+ 11:44, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

If they wracked their brains a little, I'm pretty sure they could've come up with a better weapon for Wakka than a ball. Did I mention how satisfying it was to beat the guy to a pulp in Kingdom Hearts? JohnnyC

Aww the dopey character who had an affair with the fat, ugly, brainless queen is winning. Well, now we know what kind of women everyone here likes :>. BoAKaNRikkusmallsig 10:59, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, wait, what? Actually playing through IX reveals that Steiner and Beatrix fall in love with each other. I'm not sure Beatrix would appreciate being called fat and ugly ^^U 8bit 12:47, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Yes Steiner and Beatrix fall in love. But the fat queen he was referring to was Garnet's "mother" Queen Brahne. TheBlueDragoon 22:03, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

See? You people bitch with or without me! Okay, weighing in on everything so far...I can't get any more annoyed with people who call Wakka racist than those who call Cloud emo. I don't know why, but people seem to want flawless, 2D characters. It's not like Wakka doesn't get over it in the space of a few weeks, which would show incredible open-mindedness, as many people simply refuse to change over years of time. That's sort of how character development works. You don't start out with gold, you work your way up. And the complaint about him using balls is just...meh. Instruments, fabrics, paintbrushes, Final Fantasy has always had odd weapons, & frankly, I think talking about the "mythological difference" is just grasping at straws. Let's see...racism, weapon, I think that just leaves Blitzball. I don't want to derail the comments, but why does everyone seem to hate that minigame?Neo Bahamut 16:11, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Short version: Because it sucks. The Man In The Black Cape 16:22, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Mind repeating that without the circular logic?Neo Bahamut 17:06, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
This is directed to Neo Bahamut. I loved Blitzball. And as far as the weird weapons go, there's paintbrushs, hairpins, meagphones, bells, forks, flutes, and even dolls. To me the doll is just the weirdest overall. TheBlueDragoon 22:00, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
I actually loved Blitzball, once I learned how to actually play it. (The FFX2 version sucked though.) Anyways, the rest of the odd-weapons never really crossed my mind, since I never actually used any of the characters who wielded them. JohnnyC
Blitzball was more than a minigame. It was more of a small game inside a larger game, of that makes sense. And as far as weird weapons go Johnny, the only character I ever used with a weird weapon was Red XIII. TheBlueDragoon 16:06, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
Huh, I completely forgot about Red XIII's hairpins. He still attacks with his claws though. The hairpins somehow just enhance his strength... @_@ JohnnyC
If I remember correctly, he does a kind of flip motion when he attacks. I always though he used a combo of his claws and his hairpin to deal damage. I still think that dolls and forks are the weirdest though. TheBlueDragoon 22:12, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
Well, forks DO hurt when your stabbed with them. (Not that I've actually tried it.) And the dolls were voodoo dolls used by a Black Mage that hardly did any damage, so I guess that's kiiiinda believable. It was the Paintbrushes and Megaphones that made the least sense to me. JohnnyC 01:36, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
Nothing about Cait Sith makes sense. But he uses the megaphones to order the Mog to attack.Neo Bahamut 03:45, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

Week 129: Sin v. Vegnagun

10sin-a
Dnc v
Vegnagun
WINNER!
Sin, clearly
At this size, you have to admit it does kind of resemble Godzilla versus Mothra, but no... its the big baddy from X and X-2.
10sin-a

Votes for Sin

  1. Sin have something nostalgic, something sentimental and sad... its awesome
  2. Godjuro! Godjuro! *runs away* Leon5550 02:57, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  3. Sin is monster that wont die and keep coming back to live.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4 02:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  4. I liked the concept of Sin. Vegnagun is just a little too silly. Avieure 03:42, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  5. Well Auron fought Sin not Vegnagun. So Sin it is. hee hee SINNER. Theentertainer
  6. ScatheMote 13:00, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  7. Duh Sin is gonna win--DarkTriforce 15:48, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  8. A far more fascinating enemy, in my opinion Boogum 16:23, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  9. Voting for the one from the least sucky game, not to mention, it's Jecht. Yuki-Shiki 16:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  10. Sin is Jecht... 'nuff said. Crims0nf0rtune 10:26, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  11. I agree, Sin is a much more interesting concept. SamSandy 17:28, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  12. FF74EVA! 19:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  13. Sin killed more! Mr_Darkside 21:04, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  14. Voting for Vegnagun is like voting for a mobile game, its absolutely stupid, he was an absolutely pathetic boss.- Saraija Merinas
  15. Sin has 1 move that can end the game in one turn. Vegnagun does not. My Vote goes to Sin! User:CaptainKhaos 18:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  16. Leogon255 22:21, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  17. Mr. Rojo: I like a lot Sin's concept and design. 23:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  18. It took me forever to come up with my decision, but Sin wins my vote for a few reasons. Overall, his design and concept is much cooler than Vegnagun. He was a force to be reckoned with. He destroyed entire towns with his Giga-Gravitron attack. He was just a better creation. Not to mention the fact that the inside of the beast is a dungeon all in itself. I think I said enough, but also, Sin is actually Jecht. How much cooler can it get. Not to mention to finally get to get rid of Seymour permanently inside of Sin! TheBlueDragoon 23:55, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  19. Sin=Jecht and sin is just awsome Sunpanda2012
  20. Sin wasn't involved in a half-baked, emotionally scarring plot. Plus, were they able to use Vegnagun to defeat Sin in the first place? I didn't think so. JohnnyC
  21. Sin has the better story. It's also practically unkillable, which is a plus. -Nokareon
  22. sin is the best plus he has more hp.--a17280fdec998b452275c942c7dfe2cb 03:36, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  23. Even though Vegnagun can destroy all of Spira, Sin is a giant whale. Whales are fucking awesome. Violetmage♥ 04:40, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  24. . X kicks X-2 ass, therefore sin should win. Yuffie2211
  25. Sin is just...a powerful word to have as a name. Plus he'd beat the crap out of Vegnagun in a smackdown. Bangaa Red Mage 10:05, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  26. Vegnagun was a pointless plot device (a bit like geostigma but I won't go into that!) But Sin was the plot. And anyway X can kick X-2s ass any day!! FinalFantasyAerith
  27. Sin, because he was recognized as the villain way before the Vegnagun was. MezzoEmrys 14:29, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  28. Of course. Jecht was better than Shuyin, Shuyin reminded me more of Tidus. Vincent PortraitFinalfreakfantasyDeathPenalty15:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  29. Blykus 18:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  30. Sin may not have been awesome (I can't remember), but FFX was. A million times better than X-2, so. Ol' Jecht gets my vote. xD -wtdrmfrthwbzn
  31. Sin is more original--Ltfabretti Dragoon 20:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  32. Vegnagun felt like a last minute final boss as compared to Sin that fits well into the story. BoAKaNRikkusmallsig 21:11, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  33. I may not know much about Vegnagun, but my vote is on Sin because of his great power. SuperGuyverUSA 12:10 22 August 2009 (UTC)
  34. Vegnagun was in X-2? So It's obvious, that Sin is better...SquallisbetterthanCloud 10:50, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
  35. Rikku single-handedly beat Vegnagun at a low level... I like my bosses to be a little more challenging --Roxasxiii 14:06, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
  36. Final Fantasy X > Final Fantasy X-2; original > spinoff; Godzilla > Mothra - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2-
  37. Sin is FAR more intimidating of a boss. Lets not forget that he was a constant threat throughout the entirety of the game. And yet, even though he's intimidating, he still manages to be something resembling a massive stuffed animal (LOOK AT THAT FACE!!!! IT'S ADORABLE!!!!) Hydronisa
  38. Clearly Sin. FinalAnnihilator 00:16, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
  39. did everyone see sin pulling the moon with giga graviton... fight over
  40. wee187 04:12, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
  41. Sin is God! derum
  42. Whale+Flight+Gravity spells= Space Whale. And not those crappy ones from Marvel Comics. Exdeath64 19:12, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
  43. We've had this one before haven't we? In any case, I'll go with Sin. I just feel there was more to him than we saw. TomServo101 20:00, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
  44. Sin is by far a more formidable foe plus it actually killed plenty of people. Giga Gravitation? Immense! Hamfruitcake 09 21:14, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
  45. Sin would blast Vegnagun to pieces before Vegnagun could even Begin to charge up its laser Destriker73 10:51, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
  46. Sin is ALIVEE Vegnagun is a robot Machina, Organic beats Machina everytime! PabloPicaso 11:28, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
  47. sin is simply cool, vegnagun is so weak :S Gilgamesh 20:35, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
  48. Seriously? This is a contest? The two lamest bosses in FF history... awesome. I vote for SIN, purely because Vegnagun didn't really do anything. his capability was merely rumored, never demonstrated. SIN actually destroyed entire cities.
  49. Sin was a source of tension and seemed as a scourge that Spira would have to fight for the rest of the time. On an other hand, he is simply better than Vegnagun! Ezupio
  50. CodeNameRedXIII 19:22, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
  51. Sin was a heck of a lot harder to beat. (Well, I mean Jecht, not Sin, but you get the point. They're pretty much the same, anyway.) Vegnagun went down in about five moves when I fought him, and I hadn't even made an attempt at over-training. Kami strife 01:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
  52. Sin is better and comes from a much better game. KaiserPaladin 07:26, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
  53. Vampyro entertaiment 19:04, 25 August 2009 (UTC) i prefer a huge fusion of a whale and a final dungeon over the fusion of a fly and a organ
  54. Maverick Riot 11:06, 26 August 2009 (UTC): I though it looked like Mothra too lol. I'm voting Sin, and can so fairly, being the only person in the world who didn't hate X-2. Vegnagun probably was awesome, but never got used fully. Sin on the other hand did a lot more damage. I also loved the battles you had with Sin whilst on the Airship, they were epic. To fight Vegnagun, you basically climbed to the top and went a little crazy.
  55. Although I think parts of Vegnagun looked cooler, it didn't really present much of a challenge in the actual fight. Sin had a more consistent presence throughout the story of FFX and was a stronger opponent in battle. Ammyissun 16:27, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
  56. Sin is just all around cooler. And the only way people could think of beating it involved in it just coming back again from the fact that you beat it. MisfitAirship
  57. Sin Gotta be Sin, he was hard enough on his own, and then we went inside and there's something else that could beat vegnagun as well. --CLOUD 18:40, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
  58. sin all the way!!! #Snowii 12:08, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
  59. Sin, definitely. For one thing, as Vegnagun is Machina, it'll probably end up similarly to Operation Mi'Hen. And let's not forget the Sin Cycle! VoidCommanderExdeath 19:47, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
  60. Sin For The Win !!!Bjarnster 00:05, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
  61. Do I even hafta say anythang? Ya got 60 other reasons why.CLARKMASTER! 22:39, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
  62. Sin is quite possibly the most epic monster ever. Judge Balthier 16:12, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes

  1. Sin easily wins this, hands down
  2. Sin is the ultimate giant blob monster and can beat anything.
  3. Sin is wicked cool! He could beat anything!
  4. Sin is potentially more dangerous and destructive. 206.248.110.71 22:25, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  5. Sin should win because Vegnagun was suppose to defeat sin, but didn't.
  6. Sin was just cooler. 192.168.1.3 02:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
  7. This is a hard decision for me, as Vegnagun was pretty threatening in concept, the machina had a dangerous and trully evil feel to it the first time I played X-2. However, we already saw what happened when Spira's people attempted to battle Sin with another Machina, powerful like Vegnagun or not. Sin was both appalling, threatening, and evil and caused so much destruction over and over. And Sin was able to be reborn even if you defeated it. Vegnagun couldn't. Plus Sin was Jecht. I vote Sin.
  8. Sin ftw. Vegnagun cowered in fear and ran away whenever it felt threatened. And the official strategy guide reccomended to be around ATLEAST lvl 60 to beat Vegnagun, i was lvl 39 and had no problem beating him or Shuyin. Sin however, gave me quite a few but whoopins.
  9. Sin's much better,partly because Sin always came back before Tidus and the gang destroyed it for good.
  10. Never wanted to play X-2, X is a much better game in every way. 121.223.138.79 07:15, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
  11. Who'd vote for that wierd machine/dragon/whatever thing?? Sin is way cooler
  12. Sin for the win... (it even rhymes xD)

81.193.22.203 17:20, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

  1. I vote for the coolest armor in FF history(Sin was Yu Yevon's armor) 189.32.113.202

Votes for Vegnagun

  1. I don't really like Vegnagun. He was pretty easy, and Sin looked cooler. --Gamer2127 03:04, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  2. It's a machina. (actually, very many of them.) Machina are mechanical weapons. Therefore it goes in the same category as such legendary devices as Arsenal Gear, the Shagohod, and CABAL's Core Defender. It possesses remarkable similarity to the Arsenal Gear AI, too. Easy decision, no? The.DreadnoughT 03:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  3. A tough decision, but Vegnagun just edges it for me, seeing as its a super-powerful war-mech that Yevon was too shit-scared of to use even to destroy the near-immortal whale-dragon demon thing that was terrorising their world, killing thousands of people and making life a misery in case something went wrong and it destroyed all remnants of civilisation. Besides, the Sin-immortality thing would be moot in this scenario, since Yu Yevon, as I understand it, needs to bond with a High Summoner's Final Aeon in order to create a new Sin, and the use of Vegnagun would entirely circumvent this. I don't know why I'm bothering though, Sin'll undoubtedly win. Rhyme not intentional.The Man In The Black Cape 15:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  4. Yeah, Vegnagun was meant to be the ultimate entity in Spira. Sadly, it's pathetically weak in battle. Still, concept wise, it's a beast you don't want to mess with. Oh, and it's operated by a keyboard. Awesome. ClixPsi
  5. Vegnagun sounds funny Bruntie2 18:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  6. It has butterfly wings... BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf (T/C) 01:04, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  7. Sins downfall is the fact that he is basically Yu Yevon who i hate so much! also Vegnagun looks better NeoExdeath 08:34, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  8. I actually thought that Vegnagun was pretty kick ass. I love machina :3 Yzz 11:51, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  9. Vegnagun was so powerful that it was too dangerous to use against Sin, even though it could have killed both it and Yu Yevon in seconds. Way more powerful. Gotta be the machina. YamiNoBahamut 18:04, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  10. I don't know why, but I like Vegnagun more than Sin. Final Cannon * Talk 17:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  11. Rinoa leonheart 20:25, 21 August 2009 (UTC)GO VEGNAGUN O YA
  12. I just don't like sin and this random mechanical bug sounds better Flaremmm
  13. Gravity Whale vs Big Bug Machina? I find it a bit difficult to choose one, but I think I'll go for the artificially intelligent piano-operated BIG BUG MACHINA!!!!! even though that kinda means I'm supporting Bevelle over Zanarkand, and when I think of it that way I almost want to change my vote... -- Sorceror Nobody Flan 12:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
  14. Vegnagun was a machina designed to destroy Sin, and the fact it's the final boss of FFX's sequel, automatically makes it stronger. Vegnagun would win. Examples of their power, Sin can destroy towns... Vegnagun can destroy worlds.No78
  15. After thinking on it I decided that Sin is really just the personification of random destrucion. Vegnagun on the other hand had focus (given a few minor tweaks to it's rampant fear), and would technically be the most dangerous. Rivenous 23:43, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes

Peanut Gallery

Well, this fight was over before it began it seems. I wonder what the next fight will be? TheBlueDragoon 02:50, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I vote neither. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 03:31, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I vote for them both 8D Faethinte audio 03:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Why is the first vote for Vegnagun talking about how Sin is better?--DarkTriforce 15:48, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure why, but we had a lot of that last week. TheBlueDragoon 23:52, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I can't vote for either of these fairly, I've never owned a PS2. T_T -- File:FFIII-nes-sage.gif Saethori (T / C) - 18:35, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Ouch! Tough choice time! I'll have to think on this one. TheBlueDragoon 21:24, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

God, two of the most pathetic bosses in Final Fantasy. A flying Whale or a robot with wings. Cant we have a good match?Cammy G 08:39, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Can't we stop complaining? The.DreadnoughT 15:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
This is good match up! Its not that bad really. Its a pure FFX fight. And besides, if you complain, you don't have to vote. So take your complaints elsewhere please. If you have a problem, take it up with Tactic Angel. TheBlueDragoon 22:30, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
I think all we do on here is complain about the fights, honestly would everone stop acting like a whiney teenage girl , grow a pair of balls and just vote for who they like better or none at all! - Saraija Merinas
Thats pretty much what I said, in nicer terms. This is a damn good fight. I mean come on, it Sin! XD TheBlueDragoon 01:52, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Not that I'm condoning complaints like that, but why does everyone have such a problem with them? People have voted for Sin because they didn't like X-2, surely that's a complaint about X-2. Until there is a rule that states all comments on the DNC have to be of a jovial and lighthearted nature, I don't see the issue with people expressing their displeasure for something! Rivenous 23:29, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't have a problem with it. People are free to complain all they want. We all have an opinion. Mine is that this is a good fight. Even if it is a landslide. TheBlueDragoon 02:00, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Um, the flying whale can destroy cities with it's mind.--DarkTriforce 21:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

So who fucked up the page layout? Right there at the top of the page, DO NOT ALTER THE FORMAT OF THIS PAGE. TheBlueDragoon 23:23, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

SO FIX IT --Gamer2127 19:41, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Not sure how to honestly. HTML has never been my kind of thing. TheBlueDragoon 02:25, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I liked Sin. Sin had substance and a meaning. Vegnagun was a pointless plot device like Geostigma in Advent Children. Not to mention the fact that X can kick X-2s ass any day!! FinalFantasyAerith 22:54, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Can we call this match early? It's obviously a landslide. Nokareon
I don't think Vegnagun had a chance to begin with Nokareon. I think we'd have to take it up with TacticAngel first though. TheBlueDragoon 02:00, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Week 128: Silence v. Darkness

Dnc v
WINNER!
I think I've illustrated why this hasn't been done before. No pictures. Anyway... status effects? I guess which is more punishing? Draw
47½ to 43

Votes for Speak No Evil

  1. First vote! You can cure Darkness with magic, but if healer gets hit with Silence... Jeppo (Talk)
  2. I vote for a spell that especially effects the White Mages!--Cluna 06 23:33, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
  3. I tend to opt for the mage characters, and Silence is extremely frustrating. Yay for Echo Screens 8D 8bit 00:12, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  4. I hate Silence. Plus it seems to happen to me more often.--DarkTriforce 02:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  5. I guess I've found Silent more troubling and more useful (though status magic is rarely useful in Final Fantasy). ClixPsi
  6. Because silence can actually screw up my strategy on occasion. And it usually helps against enemy mages. TheBlueDragoon 02:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  7. A blind fighter can still hit, albeit less often. A silenced mage however is nigh well on useless, so silence is more effective overall in my opinion. Though status spell use is situational at best in most Final Fantasy games. Rivenous
  8. Silence is more pain in the ass then Darkness.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4 03:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  9. Darkness has officially become a Joke status effect thanks to one Squall Leonheart. I've yet to see a Spell caster diesel enough enough to use magic even when afflicted with Slicene. AnonyMan
  10. Silence takes a much bigger toll on my mages, especially my healers. Plus, several attacks can still hit when a fighter is blinded. Silence is the more annoying status effect. 3155
  11. I've always found Silence more detrimental as a status effect that Darkness. With Darkness, you still have a chance of hitting, but with Silence in effect, you can't even restore health. Good thing that there's always items! :P SamSandy 08:59, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  12. Especially in Final Fantasy VIII the Silence status is more punishing, for it disables not just the Magic command, but also the commands GF and Draw, and these three are amongst my favourite command combos on the list! In addition, if Squall gets plagued by Darkness, he can still attack and he always hits, even though the trigger command's effect is removed during Darkness. So let there be Silence! (...) Dramirth
  13. Silence is better since it is more reliable than Darkness, mostly because it hits more often.(Also, read the top votes about it being more disastrous and dangerous) Darkness back then, was bugged for the most part. Also Silence, stops enemies from casting devastating magic. (Though Darkness, if it hits, plus Berserk can really be ...)--Silver Mage 09:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  14. Darkness is an inconvenience. Silence is party-life-threatening. --Saethori 09:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  15. Silence can be deadly if it hits your healer. Terra_Homing 13:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  16. Darkness just makes it slightly less likely for your attacks to hit, whereas Silence completely prevents you from using magic. Therefore, Silence>Darkness. The Man In The Black Cape 15:40, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  17. O gawd, I damn hate silence @.@ it's making the magic user literally useless. - SilverSummonerTaLk 17:08, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  18. Far more annoying then being blinded. Exdeath64 19:30, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  19. Even if you the enemy is blinded, they can still sometimes land an attack on ya.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2 19:40, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  20. Obviously. Bruntie2 20:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  21. A blinded melee character still can be useful, tanking, using skills with 100% hit... A silenced mage is near useless, and even a melee can become it too. In the other side, usually if you blind a enemy, it only affects to his common attacks and it skills still can impact you. If you silence a enemy, you're sure it cannot use any magic or magic skill. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 20:33, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  22. There have been battles when a healer has been silenced right when I needed them. It is the worst thing to happen. Darkness is just an annoyance. ChaosEsperVII
  23. Silence is harder to cure if it's on your whole team, because it can only be cured by items. And there is nothing worse than having your healers silenced and no having any of whatever they use to cure silence in the game it happens in. MezzoEmrys 21:30, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  24. It worked in VI, and is more annoying for those of us who use magic to cure things. Darkness can be dealt with fairly easily: Esuna. Except when someone's Silenced. The.DreadnoughT 22:29, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  25. Since magic is my saving grace in many boss battles, getting one of my mages hit with silence is always the worst. It takes too much time to cure with an echo screen! If a character has darkness, I just have them use magic or special abilities ;) Violetmage♥
  26. really painful when the silenced one is your support character.... OnionKnight23
  27. Silence means that you can definitely not cost magic. Darkness merely means that you may miss when you attack. Yzz 09:57, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
  28. ...CheeseNinja 11:41, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
  29. Pikmin Master: You can still attack blind.
  30. Silence always makes bigger damage to my party than Darkness... Especialy when I forget to buy enough Echo Herbs :P MMLN メーマウリアン 16:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
  31. A blind fighter still has a chance of hitting and if a healer gets blinded he can just cast esuna and fiix it, but if the healer gets struck with silence and you have no remedy's or echo herbs and no one alse can use esuna or a status healing spell (and youre at a boss maybe) youre kinda screwed. my vote goes to silence. Bjarnster 17:29, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
  32. Slience.... plain and simple.... No magic = Oh crap! Hyperwire
  33. If a mage gets hit with this, they basically become a paperweight. Boogum 07:14, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
  34. blind REDUCES accuracy, silence DESTROYS all magic stats other than defence and MP (if you want to call that a stat)Derum
  35. Silence will destroy your mage, while darkness only hinders your warior. Violawes
  36. Maverick Riot 11:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC): Silence has rendered enemies useless so I could just walk over them. It's also screwed over my own mage characters. Darkness is good, but it doesn't necessarily spell the end. It didn't even effect Squall, I'll have you know.
  37. Silence is more nuisance than darkness. So... yeah. Vincent PortraitFinalfreakfantasyDeathPenalty17:44, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
  38. Silence is an awesome advantage! Unlike darkness, your opponent can't attack with magic. Darkness, you have less of a chance, but you may be lucky to get a hit in there. Silence can destroy your team in an instant, especially your mages! CaptainKhaos 21:00, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
  39. DieKorruption
  40. I can live with Darkness just fine. But when your members stop healing or curing ailments... Vohaul86
  41. Silence stops healing and uber powerful damage spells, while darkness doesn't even work in snes FFVI Johuotar 12:27, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
  42. Silence is not only one of my favorite abilities, but it can also ruin alot of spells for people who have them. SuperGuyverUSA 5:39, 10 Agust 2009 (UTC)
  43. After spending time playing all my FF games to see how Silence and Blind work in each of them and how they affect my game play I've decided to vote for Silence, because in some games it's slightly annoying. Though I must say that normally none of those two affect me really when playing, I'm always stocking up magic damaging items and potions so if a mage ends mute I use those if I'm out of herbs, and my melee fighters still do damage most of the time when affected by blindness. Celythia
  44. I find silence to be a lot more effective when it's inflicted on a mage... I hate it! Crims0nf0rtune 11:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
  45. FinalAnnihilator 12:01, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes

  1. Silence is definitely more devastating on my characters. Darkness can easily be cured by a White Mage, not to mention that if darkness gets cast on a magic user it doesn't matter since their magical attacks like fire, blizzard, thunder, etc. will still always hit.(status effect magic usually never works anyway so if Darkness does make them even less effective it doesn't really matter) If Silence gets cast on my mages, especially my healers, then I better hope the battle ends soon or I have an item to remove it otherwise it's a game over for me. Even on enemies, when it does work, I think Silence is more effective and devastating. Enemy magic attacks are usually more devastating then their physical attacks; not to mention I can easily heal through whatever attacks they throw my way but the enemy healing through my attacks gets rather annoying. 173.63.176.221 03:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  2. 85.156.90.17 07:29, 4 August 2009 (UTC) okay, silence owns when you'r at low hp, and you'r WM goes all mute all the sudden.
  3. Cause it's one of the few status spells I ever used? 89.217.237.139 12:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  4. Silence completely disables magic,while darkness only decreases your chance to hit.Silence definitely does more damage to your party. 76.126.68.142 18:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  5. Silence just plain pwns blind. (it is truly a joke in FF8, the only enemy ONE of the characters in that's going to miss if blinded is a cactuar, and he still would hit about half the time!) Not to mention white mage (or character with high level !White in FF5's case) silenced = you're f**ked. 62.252.178.158 17:21, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Votes for See No Evil

  1. BlueHighwind : I wanted to try out my nickname design in a black background.
  2. I hardly ever use magic. Darkness can be very frustrating. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 23:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
  3. I found darkness to be a hundred times more useful to use in battle than silence. Besides, silence is a pain in the butt to cure. Mako Angel
  4. See above. Silence might be slightly more annoying on your characters, but for yourself to use Blind/Darkness is generally much more effective. Plus, more enemies seem able to be afflicted by Blind anyhow. Nokareon
  5. I'm more of a brute-force fighter who likes to hold down the A-button and hack away. Silence has no effect on me. JohnnyC
  6. Mr_DARKside :P Mr_Darkside 07:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  7. The colour scheme of this match just strikes me as awesome. Neither is particularly effective, but silence is more annoying for me. — YuanSaluto!Acta 07:40, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  8. I hate Darkness. When enemies aren't immune to it, it rarely connects anyway. When it does connect, it barely has an effect. If Silence connects, it's guarenteed to stop their spells, and absolutely cripples the enemy. --Gamer2127 07:51, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  9. Err, since there seems to be a fight whether we should vote for the status that is more or less annoying. I flipped a coin. :/ ScatheMote 08:04, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  10. Definetly Darkness/Blind is better, because it is great against T-rexaur in Balamb Gardens Training Center in FFVIII. Darkness is helpful agaist strong phisical attackers, while Silence only works against those, that doesn't actually use magic at all.SquallisbetterthanCloud 08:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  11. Silence is bad for magic users. Darkness is bad for both sword and magic users. Kuzlalala Squee! 09:22, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  12. When I'm running around levelling just tapping X or A to attack and not paying attention, Blind ruins that for me and I have to PAY ATTENTION! User:Nirvana Phoenix
  13. Uh...well, I usually found Darkness more annoying. And is more often useful to actually use in most cases than Silence. Bangaa Red Mage 10:46, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  14. I like to see Squall & co. with an afro wig. Karu
  15. <add stupid reason here>Zak Undersn 15:15, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  16. Oh black background, you kick ass. ロル Lol Cakes オケス 16:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  17. Eye drops make your eyes sting like hell. Thus Darkness is more punishing...? Also because this black backround is cool. Yay. Template:BfDsig
  18. Ltfabretti Dragoon 19:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  19. Faethinte audio finds missing the target over and over and over quite annoying.
  20. I don't talk much anyway.--Werefang[T/A] 20:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  21. Silence does nothing to melee fighters. Darkness is a pain for any character. Signed, The Recondite Sage.
  22. Having my main damage-dealers swatting around like blind fools (especially when I've run out of Eye Drops) in a fight makes me seriously consider giving up sometimes. - Paramina 21:45, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  23. Because I've never gotten silence to work effectively on enemies. Also because darkness sounds way cooler. MisfitAirship
  24. Best to be Blind and able to cast spells than vise-versa. I take Blind over Silence 80% of the time, though both are annoying, depending on the character. --wee187 00:12, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
  25. Cloudiroth Most enemies that silence would be useful against are normally immune, darkness on the other hand has helped me tackle seemingly impossible bossed on more than one occasion.
  26. Trindadex 01:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC) usually the bosses are immune to silence
  27. FinalFantasyAerith Lol I find darkness to be a handy addition to the team in FFX as most creatures seem to not be immune to it shockingly enough and then that means I get lots of experience against mindlessly strong fiends :D
  28. Legend of Fantasy 00:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC) I've been playing Final Fantasy III DS lately, and my two physical attackers keep getting blinded. And my mages are worthless in Goldor's Mansion, so..... It murders my party. I give it my vote to quell it's hatred of me.
  29. Silence is a pain, but i use darkness more often and pretty often im content beating the crap out of whatever it is with the staff of a mage if it's been silencedBritPenance 14:41 7 August 2009 (UTC)
  30. One: Black background owns. Two: Neither are useful defensively in most games with the exception of FFX, in which darkness is occasionally useful. Three: Darkness on me > silence on me because I have to take it off more characters (thiefs tend to shift my team towards the melee-heavy side). Four: OCD says vote for the shorter one. -- Armond 20:46, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
  31. While I found silence hindered me more it was never anywhere near as useful as as blind. Immune to stop 00:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
  32. In a all monk challenge blind will kill you, where as silence is much less annoying. Cammy_G
  33. I'm playing FFXII at the minute and my characters being blinded in battle is much more irksome than silenced. Hamfruitcake 09 16:17, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
  34. Yuffie2211
  35. I think I used darkness more than silence against enemies. It worked really well for me especially when the status was attached to my weapons. dudutsai
  36. Darkness for me. But then again, it does depend on the situation... User:Lord~Exdeath
  37. Sunpanda2012 22:41, 12 August 2009 (UTC) Darkness is way more annoying and useful
  38. Physical Attacks are much more useful and much more of a threat then magical attacks ever will be KaiserPaladin 07:13, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
  39. Rinoa leonheart 11:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC) O YA
  40. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L - I happen to melee more, what can I say.

Anonymous Votes

  1. I'd rather be mute than blind. 81.193.16.81 11:37, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  2. This one was a tough choice. On the one hand, silence prevents magic. On the other hand, darkness cuts down on physical attacks. But, since I usually use physical attacks more than magical attacks, darkness is the more effective spell on me.74.99.12.17 15:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  3. I hate silence! --201.43.201.40 19:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
  4. It took me a while to decide, but the truth is that in battle I usually just have everyone attack: the fighters deal good damage, the mages...not so much. So if my mages get silenced I'll just make them waste a turn they'd essentially waste anyway to recover silence with an item, and the fighters can still fight. However, my fighters getting blind means I'll prolly miss and not deal damage that turn. Also, darkness is a more effective spell to use on enemies, since they usually just attack or use special attacks instead of magic. 206.248.110.71 04:38, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
  5. 206.24.49.1 21:59, 10 August 2009 (UTC) I rely mostly on weapon and item rather than on magic. Therefor, i don't really care when i'm silenced. I just continue attacking. A mage can run out of MP, a fighter doesn't need MP or care abt being silenced. Also, blind is usually more useful against enemies anyway!
  6. Magical attacks are worthless when you have a good physical fighter, especially in boss battles 121.223.138.79 07:16, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery

Wait a minute... I thought that fights like spells and places were against the rules? Whatever, not votic this week i never bothered with status effects-Saraija Merinas

You could have just put the words Silence and Darkness in the space where the images would be. Use your intuition! Jeppo (Talk) 23:19, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I would've preferred sprites from eg. FFVI with the status effects, since they were visible during the combat. SamSandy 08:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I would have liked to see little icons for each, like the ellipsis bubble for Silence and the little sunglasses for Darkness. Like the charcaters have in FFVI and FFVI. TheBlueDragoon 01:24, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Here's an... interesting fight. Not much to say here on my end, except that whoever suggested this is probably very happy. TheBlueDragoon 02:49, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Interesting choice here. Will have to think about this a little as I work with magic and meele depending on my mood so both status effects tend to annoy me a lot. I like the way the battle is illustrated (or should I say not illustrated?), though at first I thought it was a battle between light and darkness before I read the title xDD Celythia

NOTE: which is more punishing? --Silver Mage 11:36, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, it really depends on the game. Exdeath64 19:38, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Well, i was just reminding people that it's about which one is more dangerous. --Silver Mage 08:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
It does depend on the game. Silence and Blind can be a godsend or utterly worthless, depending on the game. 71.106.152.201 05:15, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
It's not, it's just an useless popularity contest as any other DNC fight. Zak Undersn 16:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
If this place is so useless, then why are you here AND voting? Go away, emo child, no need to bring your moodiness here. :P SamSandy 19:31, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
First: Go get fucked by a horse. Second: In b4 user was banned for this post. Third: I love useless things, otherwise I wouldn't be answering to that. Zak Undersn 20:21, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
No more arguing please, take this outside. I've learned my lesson. --Silver Mage 02:56, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
True 'dat, brudda. There may be children here. Well, on the off chance your not all just a bunch of 43-year-olds living in your grandparents basement. Regardless, please try to be courteous of others, and respect their opinion. I don't think anybody wants to see anymore ridiculously long debates.
But, regarding the this year's election, It seems hard to see a clear winner here. "Dark" does seem to have it's useful qualities (i.e. sometimes inflicting "Blind", striking multiple opponents at once) though. However, "Silence" has the very useful skill of striping enemies of their magic ability. So, it seems to me that... I can't decide. I guess I'll just wait for a better fight to see who wins. - Lost Hero
No more fighting! Just be courteous and if you have a problem, use your talk pages! I don't want a huge fight like we usually do. TheBlueDragoon 04:05, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I find it rather fascinating that there are so many different reasons for voting in this poll; some people are even voting for one status condition because they believe the other one is stronger. --Saethori 05:03, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

People have a lot of reasons for their votes. And yes, sometimes one status effect is stronger than the other. A blind melee character can still deal damage, but a silenced mage is nigh on useless. Of course, there are some people who disagree with that, but hey, its the Internet. We all have opinions. TheBlueDragoon 23:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
I was actually referring to the fact that there are votes in both sections that say the same thing; A vote for X because X is stronger than Y, and then a vote for Y because... X is stronger than Y. >_> --Saethori 00:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeesh, sorry. TheBlueDragoon 03:52, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

About time for a change? - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:22, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Definately. This fight's been over for, what, a week now? The.DreadnoughT 21:13, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Well, the fight started 16 days ago. Maybe the guy who does this are on holiday? Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 21:15, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

If so, then surely we can just change it ourselves. What's next on the waiting list? The Man In The Black Cape 21:29, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

That is not something that I would recommend. Why don't you go out and improve the wiki while you wait? Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 21:32, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
You just slow your roll there. It'll get done. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

I was the one who suggested this fight a WHILE back. Glad to see it was used :).--BigCubby 03:14, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Week 127: Ramza v. Basch

Ramza
Dnc v
WINNER!
Ramza
38 1/2 to 34
Two men, despised on Ivalice for different reasons, in different times. Both men, apparently swordsmen, but you have a great deal of control over that.
Ramza

Votes for Ramza

  1. Hard choice but I think I'll go with the guy who earned his "traitor" status due his actions rather than the the evil plot performed by the evil twin. And because Ramza DOES evolve through the story, Basch was all done and completed personality wise and such when he first appeared and lacked any evolution through the story. Celythia
  2. BlueHighwind : My instinct says Ramza. Gotta listen to it.
  3. He died for your sins, damnit. Template:BfDsig
  4. I can't find fault with either of these two, but Ramza just sneaks it. Jeppo (Talk)
  5. Both decent character(Basch easily the best character of XII's Main cast). Ramza beat the tar out of a bunch of demons and was played like a damn fiddle by most everybody, and then gets shafted in history as a bad guy. Oh and he can Throw Stone. That by itself is 7 Layers of Cool. AnonyMan 22:35, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. If iI did not call myselft Ultima, I would have involved Ramza in my name. Ultima 22:36, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  7. Gotta go with one of favorite video game character out of any game, my man Ramza! Soldier of Light
  8. I vote for Ramza. Maybe because I like FFT more than FXII. Final_Cannon 23:58, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  9. Only because he killed Mustadio. ScatheMote 01:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  10. I like FFXII more than FFTactics, but Ramza is a better character than Basch in my honest opinion. --wee187 03:30, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  11. I'm a FFTactics drone and it was the first final fantasy game I played..ever!! so it instantly goes to Ramza Terderrer
  12. Ramza wins for the Phoenix Down scene. CheeseNinja 07:07, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  13. Well whaddaya know, I'm voting. -- N/A 07:42, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  14. Both are good characters, but Ramza was...yeeeeah. Bangaa Red Mage 07:57, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  15. Ramza has better clothing... OnionKnight23
  16. Ramza is quite possibly the greatest hero ever made. Unless someone wants to dispute this, I really don't have anything else to say. ChaosEsperVII
  17. Blykus 11:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  18. You know, I don't have any reason to vote for Basch. While Ramza rocks hard. Zak Undersn 11:28, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  19. He's a true hero and he's a member of House Beoulve. Karu
  20. Ramza, do I need a reason? ApatheticAngel
  21. 1. He has the power to be ANY CLASS, use such abilities for his own advantage and his team, 2. Is a great hero, standing afront a corrupt religion and daring to take it down due to it evil plans, 3. His game kicks major ass, and Ivalice is one awesome world I'd love to explore Brave Fencer Musashi style. Mask no Oni 19:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  22. Killing 7 mega demons and turning an entire warring country against you while they're still fighting each other? That takes balls of steel. Unless you make him a thief, then it's balls of steal :P--Muchomas35 19:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  23. Pikmin Master: Monk Ramza. Done.
  24. Theentertainer:OI! Ramza Better Game, Better Character, Better Story.
  25. Ramza cos he's mint Bruntie2 11:48, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
  26. Gotta vote for a guy with no nose. ロル Lol Cakes オケス 14:20, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
  27. Lockhart: Basch is nice, but Ramza is one of the best leads in the series.
  28. Ramza's amazing. Plus, I LOVE Tactics and HATE XII xD So this is really no contest for me. Ramaza really deserves the win with this one, though. Yzz 04:14, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
  29. Gotta give it to Ramza.Immune to stop 18:26, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
  30. Tactics was the very first Final Fantasy game I ever played. How can I not vote for Ramza? Besides, if an entire religion decided he was dangerous enough to be considered an enemy, he had to be doing something right. Silver Dragon XXVIII 20:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
  31. It's difficult to actually make an argument for either of them that doesn't apply to the other, but I like Ramza much more that Basch. Signed, The Recondite Sage
  32. Ramza was the leading man, basch is a pale imitation weilding a lesser sword. Hamfruitcake 09 07:28, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  33. A great hero, not remembered in the annuals of ivalician history, but more than worthy of defeating the man responsible for Vaan's worst lines in FF XII Jamiemitsu FTW 19:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
  34. Awesome character, awesome design. — YuanSaluto!Acta 23:26, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
  35. Ramza was one of the few FF heros that didn't annoy the crap outta me at any given point in the game (not emo, whiny, or just bleh. personality AND taste in a character design. THANK YOU).#Molly-sama 01:51, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  36. recino I saw the names and thought Basch was Balthier (wich in my brain makes a lot of sence) but now that I relize it's Basch, I have to go with Ramza because he's cooler had a better game and more personality... I love FFT
  37. Surprisely, Ramza is winning and I'm happy about it. Mean this that more people know FFT now? Well, finally a good fight. I don't have much time to explain myself, so just: Ramza's much better character than Basch. Nothing more to say. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 22:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes

  1. I like his character development ^^ 62.167.38.233 10:34, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  2. Ramza owns big time... loved him in FFT. 81.193.19.184 14:41, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. 74.72.39.163 05:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC) Ramza is part of my childhood...so is Cloud but Ramza is less emotional...more heroic. Plus Medieval Themed = Win. I love that my brother played all of FFT reading it aloud...That really helps when your like five >.>

Votes for Basch

  1. Basch Rules! Uppfinnarn 15:34, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
  2. I have seen both men in action, and hands down Basch has this one in the bag...no questions asked. Jennilouwho 00:59, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. Yeah, finally, my idea! I'll vote for the guy who saved Ivalice after spending two years in a cage. --TenzaZangetsu 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. I don't know Ramza, so I vote for Basch.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4 22:06, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  5. Basch is much more interesting and unique as a character, while Ramza is your all-too-common mute protagonist with no personality. Not a tough choice.SamSandy 22:24, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. Basch wins my vote simply for being from FFXII. I haven't played FFT yet, but I'm sure this will be a good fight. TheBlueDragoon 22:32, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  7. I like both. Basch has the advantage of graphics, relationship with Ashe, and Gabranth. Shining Ray > Ultima. 8bit 01:05, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  8. Basch doesn't speak in Ye Olde Englishe. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 01:32, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  9. I say Basch because of his stoic determinedness. He doesn't whine or question his motives like Ramza, he's the man who knows where he stands. Ramza's WotL VA didn't help either. Master Aohan 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  10. Mostly because Ondore lied. The.DreadnoughT 01:51, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  11. Cap'n fon Rosenburg is such a manly man. I think that'll suffice Violet mage03:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  12. Ramza had quite the quest, but I never really cared about him (just his story). Basch, on the other hand, is an interesting character, even though he (like most FFXII characters) could have used some more screen time. ClixPsi
  13. I like Ramza more. --Gamer2127 05:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  14. Berserk+Bravery+Haste+tornesol=Living Chainsaw.Exdeath64 05:13, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  15. the real lead of FF12 NeoExdeath 06:02, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  16. Heck, haven't even played Tactics, or wherever Ramza is. Besides I've always used Basch in my team, along with Balthier and Fran. Vincent PortraitFinalfreakfantasyDeathPenalty 07:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  17. Basch is better than Ramza because he is from a mainstream Final Fantasy game. Besides Final Fantasy XII is the best FF game and tactics sucks. KaiserPaladin 07:26, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  18. Ramza doesnt have a wussy fan running around town pretending to be him (Admit it Vaan) Leon5550 08:15, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  19. No comment --Silver Mage 09:05, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  20. Kuzlalala Squee! 09:20, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  21. Just look at them. Sure, Ramza may be more noble, but Basch could easily kick his ass.--Xepscern 13:17, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  22. Not that I need an explanation, but a) Basch is all-round tougher than Ramza and would therefore beat him in a fight, and b) Basch may a mindless roider, but he is still way cooler than whiny, high-pitched, wishy-washy, castrated ladyboy dipshit over there. The Man In The Black Cape 18:54, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  23. Suprisingly difficult choice! But had to go for Basch in the end. If he gets enough support maybe SquareEnix will continue to make male characters who don't arguably resemble women!Rivenous
  24. Cloudiroth TANK!
  25. NocturnisEstra100 06:59, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
  26. Rocking Chair Ramza was never that great to me. Basch is probably the most manly man in the series. Apart from Jecht.
  27. Let us be clear that I am voting for his badass twin Gabranth, not this weakling. MechaUltimaZero 16:00, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
  28. He has more style Trindadex 16:19, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
  29. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf (T/C) 03:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  30. Basch wins. We all lose. FinalAnnihilator 18:07, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  31. Basch. Ltfabretti The Dragoon Chocobo 19:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
  32. Because I don't really know much about Ramza, but I highly doubt he can top the noble and ever awesome Basch. MisfitAirship
  33. Basch is a better character in his story, than Ramza was in his one. I mean, c'mon, A once-famous knight, now framed in murder, versus a noble kid. No competition here.SquallisbetterthanCloud 15:39, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
  34. This might surprise some of you, but I have to vote against Tactics here... T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Anonymous Votes

  1. Basch because he's hot. Also, he had a better story than the main character of FFXII. I'm looking at you, Vaan. 71.167.15.108 04:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  2. Basch is strong. 124.179.241.69 07:30, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery

Just had to point this out. Who the hell voted for Basch with a vote that says "I like Ramza more?" TheBlueDragoon 17:57, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Noticing a lot of unsigned Anonymous votes again. Please don't make me and The Dreadnought say it again, so here's a friendly reminder. Use four tildes to sign your username or IP address. If you don't sign, your votes don't count... TheBlueDragoon 06:51, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

MY IDEA, FINALLY! Sorry if I am pissing anyone, is just that I'm happy right now. --TenzaZangetsu 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I like this fight, I liked both characters enough and partly I hope it ends in a tie, though probably it will not XD Celythia
Thanks, it was the suggestions that had the most votes. They are two of my favorites characters and they are both awesome, it was hard to decide. --TenzaZangetsu 22 July 2009 (UTC)
This was a very good suggestion Tenza. It was hard to choose. TheBlueDragoon 23:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree great idea, so nice that people can think oof good fights...- Saraija Merinas

Finally a good fight! I'm pumped about this one. I have a good feeling about this fight. Much as I wanted to vote for Ramza, I haven't played FFT or War of the Lions. (yet) So yeah, this is a good fight. TheBlueDragoon 22:34, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Looks like a victory for Ramza at this time. It was probably the best fight I've seen so far, aside from the last "Bad Fight Week", which was a simply amazing week. TheBlueDragoon 23:03, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

  • Now we need to have my Delita vs. Vossler fight put in to be the polar opposite of this current one. -Nokaroen
Or my Rosa versus Rinoa. Or that Kuja versus Genesis fight thats been there for months. TheBlueDragoon 02:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
I say we do Biggs v. Wedge again! Woo hoo! Who's with me? --BlueHighwind 02:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
That's not my point. I mean it would fit perfectly, because Delita is the foil to Ramza, and Vossler is the foil to Basch (either that or Gabranth, but whatever...) -Nokareon
I saw your point. I just wanted to say my own point. TheBlueDragoon 03:35, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Better plan: Final Fantasy Biggs and Wedge versus Star Wars Biggs and Wedge, or maybe Vicks versus Biggs... Look, if we're going to keep griping over fights when a decent one is going on, I have something to say: the only character I've ever so much as heard of who's never been in the DNC is Whiteylocks. Therefore, I actually have a good reason to say that one of the fights I supported should get chosen. The.DreadnoughT 19:59, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
And why not a FFVI-Mog vs a FFXI-Mog? Who's the best Mog? Celythia
I suggested a Mog fight months ago. Mog versus Red XIII, but its only got four supports. I have a lot of suggestions in the nomination page. TheBlueDragoon 15:52, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


Am I the only one that keeps thinking that they used Ramza as Basch's base, just tweaking things around a little and leaving most of the essence of the character? I've been wondering about that since I first got FFXII.Celythia

I'm of the mind that they melded Ramza and Ahsley Riot of Vagrant Story to get Basch. So no; your not entirely alone. Theentertainer
Yeah, they look quite similar. And to throw a bit of conspiranoia in here: If you look closely their artworks, you'll see that their poses are quite similar, too. Zak Undersn 23:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I wonder where SamSandy got the idea that Ramza is mute. Zak Undersn 11:34, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Not from playing the game, that's for sure. Though I must admit that when I first got the game I expected Ramza to be a mute protagonist due the style of the game. Celythia
Oh, he's not? I admit I haven't played the game, but I always assumed he doesn't speak... I don't recall seeing any screenshots of Ramza speaking, either. My bad, sorry. Not affecting my vote in any way, though. SamSandy 20:32, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
I supposed it wouldn't, no reason for it to affect it. And as I said I also thought he wouldn't talk and have no personality before playing the game so your mistake is understandable at least from my part. Celythia

Why is it so many votes that go to Basch are people who haven't even PLAYED FFT? Theentertainer

Cause that's how the DNC works? And because if people refrained themselves from voting in battles where they don't know one of the characters because they haven't played the game the amount of votes and activity would drop crazily. Personally I don't care if people vote for Basch because he's "a mainstream FF character" or because "Who's that Ramza guy anyway?", but I admit it annoys me that they don't apparently even bother to click the links at the top of the fight and read what the wiki says about the character. It may not change the vote but I assume that they put the links to the characters' pages for a reason other than have their names show in blue letters. After all this is a wiki, not a random board where to get information about a character you have to open a post and wait for people to answer you. Celythia
You can't expect people to have played every FF like you or I have.Nokareon
Plus FF Tactics is one of the harder FF-games to get, at least where I come from. It wasn't released here at all until the PSP-remake, and I unfortunately don't own a PSP. Otherwise I would've of course played it by now. But yeah, you can't restrict people from voting in these polls even if they haven't played a single FF-game. There's just no way. SamSandy 18:02, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
I do agree with you Nokareon. I've played the entire main series, and most of the spinoffs. But the only one I've yet to play is FFT. I've read up on Ramza, but he still doesn't get my vote. And to Celythia, why does it annoy you? So people don't know a character. Its nothing to get all huffy about? TheBlueDragoon 18:07, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Maybe I worded myself wrong? English is not my first language so I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. Anyway I didn't mean to say that I was annoyed about the fact that people didn't know a character, it would be stupid to be annoyed by that. What annoys me is the fact that apparently no one even bothers to at least try and look at the information this wiki has about the character. I don't mean to say that people should sit and read every character's page in depth or anything, but I don't think it's that hard to at the very least confirm from which game the unknown character is, and the reason why I find this annoying is because this is a wiki not a random board, supposedly we gather here to share and complete information about a franchise we all like and enjoy by extent to this we also discuss about or opinions and likes and socialize, with a board and all. But probably that's just me being wrong with the concepts and ideas, I came to this wiki in search of information and later to socialize even a little bit, but that's just me and maybe it should be the other way around? Of course I could still be deadly wrong and people actually do look at the unknown character's page a little, even if their vote is still reduced to "I don't know him but I know this guy" because reading information about a character just isn't the same as playing the game and watching that character's script and actions, and there's little to no way for that to make people go "Hey I like this guy I just read about more than this guy I played with and used in my party and felt identified with!". But I find difficult to think that most of the people do that when looking at votes that say "I didn't play whatever the game this character is from" which is a line of voting that I have seen more than just once in the DNC. I hope I explained myself better this time X.x Celythia
I didn't mean that in a bad way. I apologize if I have offended you. I see where you are coming from. I myself, having never played Tactics or seen Ramza's character, I voted for Basch. I was considering voting for Ramza, but it just didn't seem right. I know and love Basch. And believe it not, I researched Ramza and I love what he is. he's the good guy made to be a heretic. That is pure genius. Anyway, I was just curious. Sorry if I offended you. TheBlueDragoon 18:54, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
No offense taking at any moment, mostly I was worried that I hadn't expressed myself correctly and by that offend someone myself. Anyway your case is what I would consider the "ideal" in someone voting here, even if you don't really know the other character you looked up at it a little and though it ended not changing your vote the fact remains that you actually put a little thought in the vote. I think a vote should be casted that way, even if the reasons and thoughts are apparently simply or superficial (like "I like red better than blue", "I like her dress more", "He has no nose", "That one looks weaker than this one"...), if there's a bit of thought then nothing more should be asked. But people that open the page look at the names and go "Ramza what?" and vote for Basch... Well it just make their vote look empty in my eyes. Again no offense was taken, I hope I didn't offend you likewise either with my first comment or my consequent replies. Celythia
No offense was taken. And yes, people could think their votes out more. I understand completely where you're coming from. I just got nothing else to say. You said everything I was going to say already. XD TheBlueDragoon 21:31, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
But hey, this is a popularity contest. If all those reasons you mentioned are good enough for electing the President, they're good enough for the DNC. -Nokareon
You're right Nokareon. Although I don't want to get on a political debate. If we can choose the President this way, why not a DNC battle? TheBlueDragoon 04:30, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Can't help but laugh at that anonymous vote that proclaims Ramza to be invincible because he's friends with Cloud... didn't help Aerith, did it? Yeah, I went there. Nevanus

Noticing that too, it made me chuckle. It didn't help a lot of people who crossed paths with Sephiroth. TheBlueDragoon 17:39, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

I am astounded by the number of votes for Ramza. If this was Larsa, everybody except me would be lining up to piss on him, but Ramza, who has all of Larsa's disadvantages, with even less excuse (have you seen him? heard his voice acting? experienced his entire retarded character?) is beating Basch! Of all people! Not that I'm moaning or anything... The Man In The Black Cape 19:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Glad that you're not moaning or anything. And for the record I liked Larsa. Celythia
Larsa was my favorite character in FFXII. He even beats Balthier. Larsa was just a good character overall. TheBlueDragoon 23:01, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Yay for the character with the free Hi-/X-Potions! The.DreadnoughT 19:22, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Ramza was hated by everyone and still pressed on. I know Basch was too but they made a huge effort to not only point that out to Ramza every chance someone got but also to mention that no one wanted his help and he still pulled through. For all intents Basch got a happy ending by comparison. Ramza knew he was going to be hunted for the rest of his life for knowing the truth and was all but written out of history for being a heretic regardless of what he accomplished. Also, don't you want a hero that questions himself? I would think that would make him more human and the mistakes he made just adds to that. Theentertainer 10:05, 27 July 2009
He has honor, he's a good man, he fights against a whole country because he wants to put things in it's place, he's a goddamn hero. What the heck is wrong with him? The only con I could see on Ramza is that he's a little too much idealist. Even I like him, and normally I hate idealists. Zak Undersn 12:03, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Finally a good battle, Im rather happy we finally got away from 6-8, This ones a toughie but I chose Basch because I havent beaten WoL yet. -Saraija Merinas Getting Basch in Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings where he has 900 HP and a protect spell ALMOST made me change my vote. -Nokareon

Ramza is voiced by Phil LaMarr. I did not know this. I can now without a doubt say that he is the greatest hero ever made. Also for those who argue that Basch was also seen as a traitor throughout Ivalice, it was really only Dalmasca, which isn't that big. Also, he was a political traitor which is a big deal but pales into comparison to a religious traitor, which is what Ramza was. You can mess with someone's country and probably just get shunned or criticized but if you mess with someone's religion, you can get killed. ChaosEsperVII

Older Fights!

You can find older fights in the Archives for the Dragon's Neck Colosseum. All of these fights are closed, so don't bother voting. All new votes will be removed.