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:::We'll just see! Let the people VOTE! [[User:Squallinoa 08|Squallinoa 08]] 02:22, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 
:::We'll just see! Let the people VOTE! [[User:Squallinoa 08|Squallinoa 08]] 02:22, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 
Why is the numbering on Edea's side all messed up?
 
Why is the numbering on Edea's side all messed up?
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:I noticed it at first, but it seems to be corrected now. So far it's 10-5 Rinoa early in the First Day of Combat. --[[User:JARIITX|<font color="#0000FF">'''Tex'''</font>]] <sup>[[User Talk: JARIITX|<font color="#000000">'''Howdy!'''</font></sup>]] 04:02, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 
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Revision as of 04:02, 16 November 2008

DNC Logo Idear


Uwee hee hee hee! Welcome, editors, to the Dragon's Neck Colosseum! My name is Ultros the receptionist, and each week I'm taking bets as to who will win in a tussle between two characters from the Final Fantasy series! The winner gets, well, nothing. It's more of a poll, really. The Colosseum owner stuck me on this duty after Kefka was defeated, but I need the money! So what are you waiting for? Get voting! Remember, you can remain anonymous! If you have any requests for future fights, please feel free to leave a message here.

The Rules, Briefly

Functionally, this is a popularity contest. You may vote for your favorite or who you think would win in an competition between the two combatants that week. You may vote only once. If you are a user, please include your vote in the user section. If you are not a user, please include your vote in the anonymous section. It is important to do this because user and anonymous votes carry different weight. Votes put in the wrong section will be deleted. Users who do not log in when they vote will be considered anonymous IPs, and their votes also will be deleted. When a new fight is created, generally once per week, the previous fight's votes will be totaled and its winner decided. Ties may be called if the victor won by a margin of 10% or less.

Week 94: Rinoa Heartilly vs. Edea Kramer

Ff8-rinoa
Winner!!
Undecided
Ff8-edea
It's a clash of the Sorceresses!

Votes for Rinoa

  1. Squallinoa_08 YES, first to vote! RINOA IS AWESOME! One of my favorite females in the FF series. She cute, pretty, open minded, has ALOT of personality, and she's kick ass. She's an angel in disguise and she just looks GREGOUS!! GO RINOA! GO GO GO!!
  2. Rinoa's a hero and Edea's a villian. Why else? Cluna 06 02:03, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
  3. Rinoa rocks!!! BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf (T/C) 02:07, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
  4. Faethinverba volant : Yes I like Rinoa. I like her very much. She's no Quistis but she's a cute girl. Edea rocks too though.
  5. Although she's Squall's love interest.... damn... why did Squall love her so much... Gotta vote for her because her Angel Wing is so kick-ass... - SilverSummoner 02:10, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
  6. Rinoa looks sweeter than any other girls. MTC
  7. Mr. Rojo: I like both sorceress, but Rinoa is just awesome. I love her personality, her story and design. Also I enjoy a lot the love stroy between her and Squall :)
  8. Don't care much for either of them. Or any part of FF8 really. - RadLink5
  9. I really like them both, but Rinoa is just better... She is a great character, has a nice story, a kickass Limit (talking about Angel Wing here), and she owns a dog! Also, she's one of the few characters in VIII that didn't came from the same orphanage. that's a major plus. Rihya
  10. Tex Howdy! 04:00, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Anonymous Votes

Votes for Edea

  1. FF8 is bad and so are it's characters, but Edea is the most tolerable. --SCM
  2. BlueHighwind Who am I?
  3. Dang, it's the first hour of voting and Rinoa already has like, ten more votes. No no.--BfD~ Kain Highwind battleSetzer Gabbiani smallRydia - Adult battleFile:Celes Chère small.png02:42, 16 November 2008 (UTC)1
  4. Leon5550
  5. Arcanedude34: Rinoa ranks as one of the ten most annoying FF characters of all time. She must NOT win. At any costs. *cocks gunblade*
Anonymous Votes

Peanut Gallery

I wanted to change the fight, it was time to do so, so I did. I suspect TA will be displeased however. Drake Clawfang

Whatever. It was about time to end that fiasco, anyhow. - Deadlyslashsword

Sorry Cluna, but I was actually first cuz nobody voted before I did. Squallinoa 08 02:05, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

The Peanut Gallery of the last fight was an example of what happens when the net idiocy is left unregulated. Faethinverba volant

Alright everybody! This is the only battle that Rinoa can win in the DNC. I don't want Edea to win and certainly there won't be any draw in this fight. We need to crush both Edea and BlueHighwind (since he's a huge fan of Edea). We need to show him that Rinoa is the BEST! SO WHO'S WITH ME?! VOTE FOR RINOA! RINOA! RINOA! RINOA!

RINOA!!!!!!

ummm.... Sorry! Got a little carried away. :) Squallinoa 08 02:14, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Edea already has won the moral victory. The world will know that few stood against many. --BlueHighwind 02:18, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Remember people, say no to insane rants. --SCM 02:20, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
We'll just see! Let the people VOTE! Squallinoa 08 02:22, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Why is the numbering on Edea's side all messed up?

I noticed it at first, but it seems to be corrected now. So far it's 10-5 Rinoa early in the First Day of Combat. --Tex Howdy! 04:02, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Week 93: Lulu v. Rosa

Winner!!
Lulu
49.5 to 35.5

They are both female and they both cast spells. You find the connection. Really, though, does it matter? Who would win?

Votes for Lulu

  1. I think Black Mage is more Useful than White Mage, so I choose Lulu - Mana0803 07:52, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
  2. First Vote! I don't really care for either, but I like black mages more, anyway. ScatheMote
  3. Faethinverba volant :"Got a Black Magic Woman... got a Black Magic Woman..."
  4. I got nothin'. --Gamer2127
  5. Ultima The High Seraph: Lulu kicks ass. And HA!
  6. Henryacores^ 20:27, 8 November 2008 (UTC) - Lulu! She's awesome, and one of the best characters in FFX!
  7. Krystal: I like both characters, but Lulu is more badass.
  8. BlueHighwind: They both made bad choices in husbands, but Lulu didn't have a Highwind to ignore. So Rosa LOSES.
  9. mateo360 Lulu just cause I don't know who Rosa is.
  10. Lulu --Zephyrus11 21:18, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
  11. Maverick Riot I love Lulu. That's all I have to say on the matter.
  12. FFX is good. Enough said. JudgeZarbi TALK 22:28, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
  13. ChaosEsperVII I like Lulu as a character.
  14. Lion heart 23:10, 8 November 2008 (UTC)I hope Lulu would win becaus sha has a really cool and strong Overdrive which can be extremely helpful expecialy if you cast Ultima Fury also I love how she can equip cute demonic stuff animals such as MOOGLES *GO LULU!*
  15. Though I'm starting to like Rosa after FF4DS (which seemed to give more life and personality to all the characters), I still find her pretty boring. Lulu just has a more likeable personality, she's great in battle (typical powerful spells combined with ridiculous evasion? yes please), and most importantly, she's busting out of her top (I'm surprised they took so long to design another female like this after how popular Tifa was). Wouldn't Lulu vs Rydia have made more sense anyway? Two exotic black mages. - RadLink5
  16. Leon5550
  17. SilverSummoner 02:48, 9 November 2008 (UTC) - White Mage is cool, but Black Mage is cooler.
  18. Fyrmer: Lulu's just a better character. Rosa's just a soft-spoken damsel-in-distress cliche, whereas Lulu is a dark, complex character with a far more interesting backstory.
  19. Red Ronso: I wanted to vote for Rosa, actually. However... breasts have won this battle. That and more humanity and the fact that she has a child from the most annoying character in FFX. *coughwakkacough*
  20. Fonzyboi 06:23, 9 November 2008 (UTC): lulu gets my vote. nuff said
  21. Karhunkynsi Well, I think they both are awful idiots, but Lulu is less. And I prefer more Black mages ;)
  22. recino: yup. Lulu FTW.
  23. User:FinalAnnihilator: My vote goes for Lulu, as I believe that Black Magic are sometimes more important than White Magic. During the storyline part of all Final Fantasy games, magic is most times proved powerful, while White Magic is mostly useful when you are out of items... Later in the game though, not so much... Still neither White Magic are so useful during the optional parts of the game. Furthermore, I haven't played FF4 as much as 10, so I prefer Lulu.
  24. Sanctiel Even though I hardly ever used Lulu I still vote for her.
  25. I love X more than IV, find Lulu has a larger background than Rosa and a cooler attitude. So this time I don't vote for the white mage. Anyway, on my X game, Lulu is white/black mage and physical fighter and...... So in a fight, I know who would win ^^ Alarielle
  26. ArableLadle : Black vs white...yeah this was easy choise
  27. Rydiaofmist: It's a tough call.... eh, I'm just gonna pick Lulu since I prefer black magic to white.
  28. Murasame77: C'mon who didn't love Lulu's sarcasm? And Black magic is a lot more useful if you ask me.
  29. Lockhart - I usually go with White Magic over Black Magic, but Lulu is just so much better.
  30. MrAllStar2 i always used her when ever she was available
  31. Lulu, hands down. --Tex Howdy! 17:08, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  32. Squallinoa_08Sorry Rosa, Lulu is hot and she's a black mage!
  33. BigSlurp: I have never been much of a fan of Lulu, however, in this particular case, I think she would take the fight. It would be close, but I think Lulu could handle taking more damage as she is tougher.
  34. Copycatloki :: I like black and white magic the same but I prefer Lulu: I love the belt-like skirt, her personality, her way of talking and how she unleashes magic to kill her enemies. Sorry, Rosa.
  35. Arcanedude34: I vote for the character who isn't as deep as soggy cardboard. The only thing Rosa beats Lulu in is her taste in men. And modesty, but just barely.
  36. Mr. Rojo: For me Rosa was a very boring chatacter and she had a lack of personality (also in the DS). Lulu is a great character, with powerfull spells, also I love her voice.
  37. MTC: It would be better if Lulu can cast Meteor Fury.
  38. CidTheFirst: She added a lot to the game and is an integral part of the group.
  39. SamSandy: Nobody's got more umph than Lulu!
  40. Pluto. : This was a tough one, but Lulu's Black Magic wins for me.
  41. HighwindAsylum: I never really got that far in FFIV, but Lulu was one of my favorite characters from FFX.
  42. Darkling692: Lulu for no good reason, I just like her better.
  43. Lulu, 'cus she her wepeons are cool. Also, being a BM Vs a WM, she would win. Myself 123 13:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  44. UndyingvsSephiroth: I don't know who Lulu is, but I hate Rosa. So I'll vote for Lulu! P.S Black Mages are awesome.

Anonymous Votes

  1. Black magic can hurt, and my Lulu knew how to put the hurt on.
  2. I like her better than Rose, she attacks with dolls, and well Lulu just kicks butt!
  3. Yumiko: I love Lulu's theme. I mean theme of love is also very great but Lulu's theme is so dark and beautiful. Plus I like black mages better.
  4. Well, I also like black mages more. Her BATTLE QUOTES are really fantastic and funny. And the dolls from that 3D-woman-black-mage are so awesome! That means VOTE FOR LULU !!
  5. Lulu is just cool. Her outfit is awsome, she carries a moogle and she knows how to kick ASS!
  6. She's smexy <3
  7. Black Mages FTW
  8. Lulu all the way, few black mages kick more ass than she does-how could I not vote for her?
  9. This is a toughie. I played both of them and they're both extremely useful, both moreso with Doublecast. Lulu has black magic and access to white magic later on. Rosa has white magic, time magic AND green magic and access to Ultima with Cecil. So this vote is pretty much a flip-a-coin situation.
  10. Lulu has a more interesting story.
  11. Less familiar with Rosa's character, so I'm relying on superficial judgement here. I find Lulu's character design a bit more unusual, which makes her more interesting. Her facial design is just more beautiful than the other FF girls, and it's good to see that Nomura was thinking outside the box (and giving his colleges a challenge) when designing her dress.

Votes for Rosa

  1. Rosa isn't as lame a character and White Magic is more Useful. Also she doesn't look as dumb, and she rolls with a much cooler crew than Lulu. AnonyMan 20:07, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
  2. User:SilverMage: So many reasons. First of all, versatility. Rosa can cast magic and fight, while Lulu can only do one. Second, Lulu has absolutely no impact on the story in X, whereas Rosa at least has some say in the matter during her game. Third, Rosa is in IV, and as we all know, IV > X. Fourth, Rosa marries Cecil. Who does Lulu marry? Wakka. Chew on that. Fifth, voice acting. Lulu's isn't bad, but Rosa's is easily better. Finally, and most important of all, white magic is just better than black magic.
  3. I have to vote for Rosa. Shes awesome. --WFOCBTCSZTVL 20:44, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
  4. Aleria
  5. User:Zack fair 007
  6. I have to go for Rosa. She's more deep, has a better backstory, (all Lulu has is the bit in the Cavern of the Stolen Fayth and the thing with wakka's brother.) She looks cooler (and hotter), she hangs out with cooler people and she's more useful. (Omnicasting and Dualcasting=Ultimate Ownage). Plus, I just like her better. Almost forgot, she has Theme of Love too.Cecil the Paladin
  7. Pray and Curaja saved my ass more than once - Deadlyslashsword
  8. Rosa is prettier than Lulu, I think. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf (T/C) 22:32, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
  9. Rihya: I usually prefer black mages, but I'm voting for Rosa on this one... Rosa is the coolest white mage ever, while Lulu loses to Vivi... Don't get me wrong, I really like Lulu, but Rosa is waaaay better!
  10. Solely due to Theme of Love and Curaja, which saved my IV party countless times... 8bit 22:56, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
  11. Rosa is alright, although the much sexier mage of FF4 overshadows her. Also, no clue who Lulu is. Drake Clawfang
  12. Hyacynth : Once upon a time Rosa topped my list of characters I liked the least. However! Things have since changed since IV got a retranslation/snazzy DS release, and it turns out she's not the spineless, zero-personality character I thought she was. And I was just playing FFX this very day and thinking "way to be overly harsh, Lulu. Why did I like you the first time I played this, again?" So I suppose the theme for this fight (at least when it comes to me) is "characters that my opinion has changed radically on."
  13. 3155 : Rosa's more useful. Her magic has saved me several times from Zemus and his goons. And besides, How many freakin' belts does Lulu need anyway?
  14. Ameria: A tough choice, but I really like Rosa alot more since replaying IV on the DS. A white mage who can also kill things with her bow is very very helpful. ^^
  15. Konira: Lulu should have gone for Auron - more man, less hair - and Rosa was just easier to love, as soon as I got her, I though, useless White Mage but then she proved quite useful.
  16. PaladinCecil: Well, here we go. I'm surprised it's not as slanted as I expected, but there's plenty of time for that. True, Lulu has worth, but Rosa means a heck of a lot more both for her story AND for the series as a whole. Rosa was the first female lead and white mage to ever have the traits that have now become staples of BOTH roles, something that many people who started later in the series either do not realize or do not respect. Further, Rosa has a direct impact on Cecil's journey; her devotion to him led her to journey all the way from Baron to Kaipo just to stand by his side, and that the only thing she suffers from is Desert Fever (an ailment anyone could contract) says a lot about her ability to survive. She helps Rydia overcome her fear of fire, and is the sole reason Kain does not kill Cecil in Fabul. That's not to say she doesn't have her flaws, but given all the things she contributes to both the story of FF4 in specific AND the series of Final Fantasy as a whole, she more than deserves to win.
  17. Free bird 13:22, 9 November 2008 (UTC): Originally, I was going to vote for Lulu partly 'cuz I like her personality, her skills and abilities, and her in-battle quotes and also becuase I have never played any version of FFIV, so I have no idea who Rosa is outside of her in-game artwork from the original release and the DS re-make. However, after reading her wikia page and coming to the conclusion that she, in fact, was the first female FF lead the first to drive in a love story with the male lead, I'm inclined to vote for Rosa becuase like it's been said, she deserves more respect than I had previously given her.
  18. Pikmin Master: I really don't like either of them, but I pick the White Mage of the two. Besides, Rosa can Haste herself and use Aim to put the hurt on Lulu's breasts. If Rosa can Shell and Curaja, she's safe from Lulu.
  19. Theentertainer: I found Rosa to be much more interesting and relevant Story Wise. That and sometimes it seemed like Lulu was more harmful to Yuna's state of mind than helpful.
  20. Pablo618: White magic is... shinny and I like Rosa a lot too and meh I don't really care
  21. I like Rosa better. I have reasons. Hexed
  22. Yath: Rosa. Even though Lulu's hotter, I feel like Rosa served more of a use in my IV party than Lulu in my X party. I also like the fact that Rosa has a 'sure hit' ability, even though her attack is low, it does wonders to flying enemies.
  23. Yzz Of course Rosa! She's so sweet and pretty :3 And you gotta wonder, what would Cecil have done without her! Lulu did play a sort of mentoring role to Yuna, and I guess that's important, but still, I love Rosa.
  24. Bartz235: I agree with evrything PaladinCecil said. Rosa is beautiful while Lulu is hot and I prefer beautiful over hot anyday, but that's not the reason why my vote is over here. Rosa is beautiful and sweet yet powerful and strong-willed. She is easily the best white mage and love interest in the series. She set the standards for all white mages following her. Her white magic skill is amazing and her love for Cecil is stronger than any other love story in the whole series. The closest one to her is yuna, but Rosa can still kick yuna's butt. Rosa deserves a lot of respect for being the first female lead in a love story with a male lead for the FF series as well. Rosa is not only a landmark character but an excellent character in the whole series as well. Plus Cecil would destroy Wakka. (By the way she has a Highwind wrapped around her finger, and that is badass). I saw PaladinCecil on a another forum before regarding Rosa as well...He really loves Rosa(and so do I).
  25. ChiefKakashi: She's losing...Badly.
  26. Slighter I love them both, so I'll vote for the underdog. Hang in there Rosa!
  27. RowdyCMoore 1. Rosa is the most underrated FF character. 2. White Magic is better than Black Magic. 3. Goth isn't sexy.
  28. Sora G. Strife: Hey, when you cast Reflect-Holy and manage to beat Brachioraidos with it, you got me.
  29. Nomura: I like Rosa's music theme. It's really one of the best in the series!
  30. I don't care about the DNC, what am I doing? I Lion Heart I
  31. Summonerluna: Well for one Rosa is integral to the plot of IV and her presence is what motivates much of the action whereas Lulu is entirely a supporting character...I do like Lulu, but she does not really do very much to drive the story. Furthermore, Rosa is fairly essential to surviving battles--her white magic is absolutely necessary and she has pretty decent physical attacks, at least as far as mages go, and she is still useful later in the game--Lulu's black magic may be good early on, but further into the game she is needed less and less. Plus, as has been mentioned before...Rosa set the standard for white mages/love interests, while Lulu is, honestly, nothing special. So Rosa all the way!
  32. Rosa needs vote badly. --SCM
  33. Milady Shadow: Well, I like both characters, but X-2 killed Lulu's character for me, and the DS remake enhanced my liking of Rosa's character, so I choose Rosa.

Anonymous Votes

  1. Rosa has bow and arrow and can cast spells, Lulu's 'weapons' just toddle along and headbutt your foes for miniscule damage. plus i prefer Rosa's outfit :)
  2. Rosa has saved my ass countless times. Lulu? I had to save her ass countless times.
  3. I'm not a big fan of the 3D Final Fantasies. So, Rosa gets my vote.
  4. Pryste: A difficult one. I did think Rosa had a distinct lack of personality (I've heard that this changes in the new remake but I don't own a DS), but FFX is (in my opinion) the worst Final Fantasy of them all, trumped only by its direct sequel, FFX-2. Besides, in terms of game-play Rosa had a vital function in the party that no one else could perform, whereas the sphere-grid system makes Lulu nigh irrelevant.
  5. She's losing... FFIV is one of my favorites FF. I like Rosa, people don't know her. Rosa's design is better and her love history is beautiful. Rosa is better, she can casts White Magic and physical attacks too, she's so useful! Pray saved my party a lot of times.

Peanut Gallery

Rosa vs. Maria would've made more sense, no? SilverMage

Not much so, it would just be two characters that are more similar than having two characters whose aspects are much much total opposites. Both work either way. AnonyMan 20:48, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

It pains me to see people vote for Lulu just because they've never heard of Rosa. - Deadlyslashsword

That's strange. Somehow it reaffirms my faith in humanity. Well, different stroke for different folks, rights? --BlueHighwind 22:29, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Amen, brother. - Deadlyslashsword

Tits or Massive tits? Belts or sluttiness? I can't decide! Jammi568 00:20, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't know who you're comparing here. I mean Lulu is obviously the massive tits and belts, but I wouldn't say Rosa has noteworthy tits, and her only sluttiness I can think of is the possibility of her having an affair with Kain (if I had a nickel for every time someone suggested this...). Did you maybe confuse Rosa with FFX-2 Rikku? (I'm kidding Rikku fans, don't hurt me) - RadLink5
Just a quick note: nothing I've found other than a few malicious rumors by one guy claiming he got it from an "official Japanese guide" (which he conveniently never provided access information about) ever suggested that Rosa had an affair with Kain. The story of the game alone should have debunked this lie, and that the guy propagated the lie as believable to so many people is one of the biggest reasons I'm always going on about her: to try and get people to remember what she's like, not what haters like him want people to believe. I'm NOT saying you think that or are spreading that, to clarify, just another mini-rant of mine. PaladinCecil 07:35, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Oh dear christ, I am SICK of people pulling this crap. Rosa is NOT slutty. Lulu's closer to being slutty than Rosa if we're going to act like this, given that she's practically busting out of her bustier AND she moves on to a relationship with Wakka years after Chappu's death. Rosa, on the other hand, loves only Cecil and by all indications of the game, will ONLY love him, the way a true 'one true love' romance goes. The only thing you have to make this claim on is Rosa's clothing, which is just as "slutty" as Rydia and many other women in the game, if not less so. Does that make Rydia a slut? This is why I didn't want this match to occur. People don't know a thing about Rosa, have zero respect for her character or the impact she had on the series, and all this'll do is further reaffirm that people don't care and will never care about this character. PaladinCecil 07:14, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
I feel soo sorry for you, in that case. I like to know how you think someone can be called slutty (personality wise) when they have clearly got over the fact that her boyfriend has died, and just want to move on with their life. As for Rosa, I've played three of the four versions of IV, and I totally agree that she didn't ever try and have a relationship with Kain, or any other man apart from Cecil. However, her DS artwork makes her out to be a badly dressed slut - at least Rydia can pull it off natually. Jammi568 10:20, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
The point behind my comment was that if Rosa's "slutty," Lulu is moreso based on the traits each has. Her artwork gives her even more cover than Rydia; not only does she have a leotard (yes, that's a leotard, not a shirt and panties as many people love to imagine and promote), she also has an underbra, a waistcloth, etc, all this when the original belief of what her clothes looked like was nothing more than a leotard. It is not slutty for a character to look good in that amount of clothing AND be the female lead. She gets attacked for it because she's Rosa, and if this weren't the case, everyone would be digging in deep on Rydia's The After costume for how much skin THAT shows off instead of calling it 'sexy'. It's Rosa, the female white mage of the game; how dare she wear something other than a robe or dress (which is what they forced her into for The After). Of course, you didn't say that last remark, but that seems to be the undercurrent behind such thoughts most of the time. PaladinCecil 10:33, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Wow, calm down a little, can't people joke a litle too? Agree that her clothing, even if it is not as slutty as rydia's, is quite suggestive. I personally don't care, and like rosa, no matter how she's dressed. Alarielle
That would be fine except that I saw nothing to suggest it was a joke, the person responded pretty seriously, and most important of all, I've run into plenty of people who actually DO believe Rosa's slutty. This is my favorite character of the series, and I don't know how much you've been around, but it's practically impossible to strike up a conversation about Rosa out in the open without someone coming along to a) say Rydia's better, and/or b) say something extremely derogatory about her (such as "she's a slut"), and I'm typically the only one who jumps in to say something in her defense if someone says something like that and means it. Characters like Rinoa at least have a strong fanbase to speak up when people try to slander the character; Rosa's left with pretty much me and that's it. NOTE: "out in the open" means a place a lot of people pass through regularly, not a small grouping of people. PaladinCecil 18:30, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, if Rosa was a slut it would be her G-string and not her panties that would be showing! THere's nothing slutty about forgeting to wear pants, right? --BlueHighwind 18:40, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Can't tell, but you seem to be partly joking; you might be part-serious so I'm responding to that half (and if you're ALL joking, then I'm saying something that applies to other people who would think that way seriously). She wears a leotard, which nobody seemed to have a problem with until the DS remake. It's as much or more than Rydia wears (and definitely more than Rydia's The After version). She's living in a world where dancers dance in bikinis out where children can see them, shield maidens of Troia too wear nothing more than a bikini, and everyone seems to still see Rosa as a classy noble lady while she wears what she does. PaladinCecil 18:50, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey, someone took my first spot. ScatheMote

To redirect the argument (really, why does it always turn into a sluttiness debate when it's two female characters?), I'm glad to see other people agree that Rosa (and most of the other IV characters) were annoyingly low on personality before the DS remake's high-quality script. Well I mean I only saw one other voter comment on this, but that's better than being the only one to notice. - RadLink5

Without creating another MASSIVE paragraph's worth of text, I have to say that in Rosa's case, most of her brilliance is characterization is subtle. Unfortunately, we live in a time where 1) people don't look much deeper than what's right in front of their faces, and 2) Rosa's type isn't the kind highly valued by current societal standards, which leads to a lack of appreciation. PaladinCecil 23:27, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Um, I take offense to that. I look past what's right in front of me for every character, and let me assure you, Rosa was pretty damn bland in the original scrpit. She may have been the first romantic heroine, but that only gets her so far. In the DS remake's script you at least get the feeling she's helping Cecil and you feel empathetic for her. Whether through bad translating or poor script writing, however the first American scripts for Final Fantasy IV left most of the characters just doing their roles without really feeling human. Edward's probably the biggest example of this in my opinion. You only know that he's sad over Anna's death because he says so. You just don't feel that he is though, you only know that he is. In the DS remake however, I find myself really feeling bad for the guy. He went from being a character I forgot even existed to being one of my favorite characters. I'm starting to ramble though, the point is the DS remake's American script makes all the characters a lot more human, and I respect Rosa's selfless behavior towards Cecil now that it feels like she's doing it out of love rather then because the script says she has to. - RadLink5
You're talking about seeing Rosa as 'bland' from a subjective POV, I'm saying that objectively, that's not true. Just like how everyone seems to love Rydia like crazy, but I might find her a 'bland' girl power cliche. I played FF4 all the way back when it first came out on the SNES, so I'm not some new comer to the game who just suddenly dropped in, I've been with this game since childhood. I've felt this way about the character LONG before the DS remake too, toward the exact same traits you're claiming you couldn't see until the DS remake, so they have to be present in the SNES version. PaladinCecil 08:10, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
What traits exactly did I claim I couldn't see until the DS remake? No, I saw Rosa was selfless and in love with Cecil in the poorly translated SNES version (and if you claim the SNES version's translation wasn't roughly the equivalent of running the script through Babelfish and having a 4th grader check for grammar, I'll smack you with a trout), but that was it. I only saw it. Much the same as if you pulled people off the street to have them preform Romeo and Juliet. You'd be able to see that Romeo and Juliet were in love, but you probably wouldn't feel the love thanks to their poor acting (this is a poor example as I object to the idea of Romeo and Juliet actually being in love but rather in teenage lust, but that's an argument for another time). The DS version's English script just happens to be, in my opinion, written with much more emotion (both blatant and subtle) in the characters. But I realize you'll never agree and I'm just trying to get you to accept that I don't feel this way about it because I can't notice subtlety in character design. - RadLink5
You said you thought Rosa was low on personality. This implies you couldn't see the traits she has, because the traits she has (classy, noble, loving, mostly selfless, etc) are parts of her personality. As well, you said that the SNES version did not get those traits across. This is very much different from "I think the SNES version didn't do a good job of getting that across, and the DS version did a better job." It's still very subjective in a lot of ways, but even I can agree that the DS remake brought it across better, even if I think the SNES version did a fine job of it. To add, my comment on subtlety was NOT about costume design. The implied journey of Rosa from Baron to Kaipo shows her devotion to Cecil, yet it's subtle because all you really get is "hey, she was there, now she's here, do this to help her." She's a big part of Rydia overcoming her fear of fire through emotional support, but most people focus exclusively on Rydia (somewhat understandably because Rydia IS meant to be the focus, but that's the point; she ends up being ignored as a valuable part of the scene and most people act like Rydia did it all by herself). The written script isn't the only thing that plays a part in characterization. PaladinCecil 23:05, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
I never implied your comments on subtlety had anything to do with her outfit, and I don't agree with people claiming there's anything wrong with her outfit. Not that I even agre e that women should have to dress modestly, but I don't see how what she's wearing qualifies as revealing. Anyway, you're right, the written script isn't the only thing thta plays a part in characterization, and yet it's the most major part. I understand a lot of people probably only got "hey, she was there, now she's here, do this to help her" out of her trip from Baron to Kaipo, but I wasn't one of those people. I know she made the harsh journey out of her selfless nature and love for Cecil. That's not my complaint. My complaint is that until the DS version, it seems she's only selfless because the game says so. The written script doesn't show enough emotion to back-up the actions she's doing. As if her selfless nature and love for Cecil are forced by an invisible but powerful force (the scenario writers). The DS remake's written script is what provides the jump from "character playing her selfless role in a story" to "woman terrified at the thought of her love being dead in a desperate search to find him and be by his side". - RadLink5
I got the impression your comment on subtlety was about costume design because of this: "But I realize you'll never agree and I'm just trying to get you to accept that I don't feel this way about it because I can't notice subtlety in character design." Anyway, I think this is a situation where we might have to agree to disagree; I think the script did fine and the actions carried it plenty well enough. Though like all things, even the DS remake, I think more could be done; I was hoping they'd give Rosa a good number more scenes to help get across to people what's good about her, something people generally don't get. These days I don't know if even that would help, however, since most people have written her off already and will never give her a chance. PaladinCecil 00:30, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

what a hot debate... :D SilverSummoner 04:36, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I must agree with paladinCecil about you radlink, from my POV he's right : you couldn't feel the feelings of the characters if you hadn't a graphic support to make you feel they are sad / in love etc. But I may be wrong, as I'm too young for having played Snes, though I think it's the only thing they added. Beat me if they have added more cutscenes. Alarielle
Forgive me for being EVERYWHERE on this, it's just, I like Rosa a lot. They fleshed out a few scenes to be more than what they were in the first one, and they added about three new cutscenes (there's one people can easily miss in the beginning). There's also thought bubbles in the menu for each character. These help get the character across, but I think that there was enough there to the characters in the first place if a person looked deep enough. PaladinCecil 12:07, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Does the inevitable have to be dragged out? PaladinCecil 20:51, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

The fight has been up for a mere 3 days.... We've had more unbalanced contests that this one go on for longer periods of time. 8bit 23:04, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
I don't participate here much, but I just never saw a point to doing any of these with Rosa because unless it's something extremely insignificant, she's guaranteed to lose. All this match-up seems to really be about is confirming the obvious. My reaction here isn't a new one either; I normally show disdain for things that seem completely pointless, FF/Rosa or not. PaladinCecil 23:09, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I just have a lot of trouble respecting anyone who's as shallow as Rosa. Although I'd say the problem of shallow characters didn't get remedied until VI. Some of the IV characters were pretty good, but not enough. Arcanedude34

Please explain what makes her "shallow," or if I have the wrong idea, please correct me. I'm used to the word being used to mean someone who's fickle and vain, both things I absolutely do not see in her. As for if it means "she's not developed enough," this is what I mean when I talk about people not looking deep enough and not giving her a chance because they've already made up their minds about her and don't want that to change. PaladinCecil 01:03, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
I was referring to shallow being under-developed in my opinion, not vain (which is like, the opposite of what she is...) I give all characters a chance, but it's impossible to forget first impressions. My first impression is that she was just another vanilla "loving caring nurturing" character, with no other traits. And... that was basically reaffirmed throughout the game.Arcanedude34
Two issues here. One is that she's being treated as if she came after the most recent games. Aeris and other female leads were made with Rosa as a base, while she was the first of her kind; she's essentially being punished for being the first one to tread new ground. The other, as I said is the problem, you got it in your mind that Rosa's a certain way and then "it was reaffirmed throughout the game." This is confirmation bias. Confirmation bias means you look for things that support an end result you expect/desire to see. This leads to heavily exaggerating the prominence of things you expect to see, while downplaying or ignoring the things you don't expect/want to see. For example, Rosa has a noble and classy side to her, but that's lost when you're more focused on reaffirming a first impression than in getting a full understanding of the character. I know the idea that you didn't give her a chance is insulting to you, and saying it so bluntly is likely to make you more vehement that you DID, but... honestly, a year ago, I would've tried to be as nice about it as possible. Now I've run into enough people who are so completely unwilling to give her a chance that I don't care who I offend, since I know she's screwed in the way people perceive her no matter what I say or do. A lot of this is bound up in both fan devotion to Rydia AND fan devotion to whoever the player perceives as the 'ultimate' or 'template' white mage, which is always someone who came after Rosa (because there are NO white mages with Rosa's personality type that came before her). PaladinCecil 01:32, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
She's the first in the series to do it? What about Maria? Her dialogue was almost entirely devoted to pining over someone (mostly Leon). Plus, I've seen it in about a million different media made before the first FF was even thought of (books, TV, stories, etc.) so it's not like she's on new ground, it's a trope that's older than dirt. And heaven forbid that our experience with a character should dictate how we view them. And heaven FORBID that anybody should view her less positively than you. In short, I really think you need to step back and ask yourself why you're writing these huge arguments for Rosa when you said yourself you know that nobody's going to change their minds? And maybe if Rosa wasn't so vanilla, I would have liked her right off the bat and we wouldn't have this problem. I don't even mind one-dimensional characters too much (hey, I liked Auron) but I just didn't like Rosa. She just... didn't appeal to me as a character. Garnet on the other hand... Arcanedude34
Yes, she's the first in the series to do it. You are conveniently limiting everything there is about her for your argument. She's a "stereotypical white mage" BECAUSE she BEGAN what we've come to see as the traits of a "stereotypical white mage." Rosa has more to her than "I love Cecil," which is what you're imposing on her as a limitation. You've seen base traits countless times, but not the specific combination that Rosa brought to the table: noble and classy air with a maternal side, full of commpassion and self-sacrifice not only for the one she loves but for practically anyone, able to forgive and withstand potentially traumatic situations perfectly fine without coming out of it scathed. She's more than a "vanilla" character, which you've written her off as. As for why I'm always starting these long arguments? I know precisely why: it's all I have left. If pouring my heart into getting people to give Rosa an actual chance isn't going to do a thing, if I'm going to have to see people routinely treat her like dirt and watch as what little she has left (her strong love tie to Cecil and view of her as the female lead of the game) is slowly cut away from her to leave her with nothing people respect her for, I can at the least bemoan the sorry state of everything. Aside from giving me a way to vent my frustration at how my favorite character's screwed with absolutely zero chance at coming back from it, I get to show very vocally that AT LEAST one person actually sees what's good in her and respects her for it: me. Characters like Rinoa have at least a small fanbase; I'm practically all this character has. And thank you for reiterating my point: that people write Rosa off in part because they see a different character as the template (it's typically the character they started with, which means usually Aeris) and don't particularly like thinking their favorite may not be as great as they once thought. PaladinCecil 01:53, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
...What is wrong with you? how ISN'T Maria the first to do it? And also... ROSA'S STEREOTYPICAL BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN A MILLION CHARACTERS WITH HER PERSONALITY BEFORE HER. I didn't mention ANYTHING about White Magic. And I don't consider "Hey, she's the same character that you've seen a million times before... BUT SHE HAS MAGIK POWERS!" to be adequate character twist. When did she EVER exhibit a noble/classy side? Ever? Maternal side, full of compassion... it's all been DONE before her! And done better, with more realism! (When did she ever sacrifice herself, by the way? When she made the really stupid choice of following Cecil to Kaipo? It doesn't matter that she made it alive [thanks to Cecil], it was still a stupid c.o.a.). She's almost the exact definition of vanilla, being nothing more than a living plot device for Cecil. I liked Garnet more because she actually had more to her- she was spunky, rebellious (without being Rikku-style OVER THE TOP), still caring, but not unrealistically so, even though she had every reason to she didn't hate Brahne or seek to abandon Alexandria... I digress. I admit, garnet was based on earlier female heroines. That doesn't mean I should like the earlier ones better than Garnet, since she (in my opinion) did it much better. Rosa is what you get if you take Rinoa or Garnet or Yuna (not Aerith, I don't know why people associate her with mothering or nurturing...) and simplified them as much as possible, you get Rosa. I'm not going to like her just because she came first. Arcanedude34
Tell me how Maria IS the first to do it. I played FF2 through Origins, and while I didn't get all the way through it, all they seem to have in common is using a bow and arrows, a connection to the main character, and MAYBE (if you built her a certain way) white magic. Everything else, I saw none of. And while I want to know what characters pre-FF series exhibit Rosa's exact traits (and I do want to know them, since I can't think of a single one but you're certain of their existence), it wouldn't change that she's the first in the series to do it, making her the first to set new ground. As for exhibiting a noble and classy side, the entire atmosphere of the game is medieval, putting her in the position of the noblelady; her entire romance is bound up in her noble qualities and the idea of the genteel lady to the gallant knight, as is choice of weaponry. Maternally, she has a couple brief scenes with Rydia in her child form, but it's still enough to draw on, about as much as most people seem to think they need to draw certain conclusions about what Rydia's personality is like. Rosa's journeying to Kaipo after Cecil is a "stupid" choice, again, from the way you choose to interpret it, which again shows you pulling out of it what you want, just like I could completely write off Lulu as a "stereotypical goth witch wannabe" or Rydia as a "bland girl power cliche." She went after Cecil because she wanted to be by his side instead of being one of those weepy whiners who stays at home worrying about the one she cares about; she takes initiative rather than hanging back on the sidelines and you're attacking her as a character for it. If she didn't, she wouldn't have a prominent enough role in the game, and I'm certain you'd look down on her in that case too because then your argument would be "oh sure she loves him, she didn't even try to help him, she just stayed behind and worried." Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't, right? Garnet, spunky and rebellious? Did we play the same game? She had all the same traits as Rosa, her running away from home even took after Rosa who had a secondary (though not as pronounced) reason for leaving Baron of "something's wrong with this whole situation, this is not the right place to be to fix it at the moment." Neither one ABANDONED their homes either, they were simply leaving so they could come back to fix things in a better position of power. All in all, thank you for proving my point: that Rosa will never get the respect she deserves because when people go back, they choose to act like whichever character they love the most came in a game before Rosa, and as a result, act like Rosa's a carbon copy of their favorite (in your case, Garnet). PaladinCecil 03:22, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Jesus. Listen to these two. --BlueHighwind 02:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll take that as a compliment, BH. Arcanedude34
is this going to continue even after the fight is over? SilverSummoner 03:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Hopefully not. Its almost sad to imagine that these titanic blocks of semi-rambling text will be saved for the record in the archives. --BlueHighwind 03:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
No, no. I'm done now. It's just... I've had... run-ins with this guy in the past. We bumped heads, needless to say. And it's your own fault if you actually went through and read all (or any) of the above. Although I doubt very much that you did. Arcanedude34
I'm not all that surprised that we've had run-ins before, actually. Certain people always come in to try to denounce everything I'm saying because it's so damning to what they want people to think and believe for Rosa to get a shred of dignity and respect. PaladinCecil 03:23, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
AHHHHHHHHHHH!!! WILL THE MADNESS EVER END??? --BlueHighwind 03:25, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Probably not, no. Not as long as I have to deal with people who regularly put my favorite character down. I know the reasons, and I know his type: the type who pretend they're open-minded because then they can say "oh, see I listened, I still think the same way" and falsely feel more validated. This is reason two I didn't want this fight to happen: not only would it be another instance of "hey check this out, people like Lulu more than Rosa, who woulda thought?", I'd also have to put up with people like him. PaladinCecil 03:33, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Hear that? It's never gonna end- better pack up and flee the country. If he gets any more obsessed, he'll start breaking into your house late at night and tie you down until you admit that Rosa is the best character in the series. I can see the headlines now..Arcanedude34
There's a massive difference between "Rosa isn't my cup of tea, I can see where she's worthwhile but it's not enough" and "Rosa sucks, she's the worst example of a female character in the series, she's a complete and utter failure, anyone who likes her should be ashamed of themselves and she deserves zero respect for anything, now go away." PaladinCecil 03:52, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Okay, so we can both stop arguing and save this page from approaching 32 kilobytes any faster than it needs to, please. Take it to a user talk page or something. 8bit 03:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Hey, I already said I was done arguing. Arcanedude34
You both have to stop this. And PaladinCecil, you've been ranting all fight now. I don't know if you noticed. --BlueHighwind 04:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
I've definitely noticed. I'm not too concerned, because I have no incentive to let things fly that grate on me. PaladinCecil 04:51, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Both of you haven't realize one thing: People always have their own opinion, which may be different from each other. Why bother trying to change their opinion? SilverSummoner 04:31, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

All I've gathered from this is that at some point, the word "slutty" was used to refer to Rydia. Clawfang is not pleased. Drake Clawfang
Right. I can say "Rosa sucks" all I want, no blocks of text are going to change my opinion. This is the world, deal with it. - Deadlyslashsword
I'm actually suprised to see anyone like Rosa that much. Its like finding a Firion fan or a Shelinda supporter. --BlueHighwind 13:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Anyway, Blue voted for Lulu, so Rosa can't win. And I like rosa less after reading those blocks than before reading them... Alarielle

Sadly my vote often does not result in my side winning. Or else Gabranth would have trumped that lame-old Golbez's ass! --BlueHighwind 13:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
That tactic isn't going to stop me from ranting. I've encountered it before. It's always only said to try to get me to shut up by hoping I'll think "oh wow, people might like Rosa more if I said nothing." Which is a lie. She'll never get the respect she deserves no matter what I say or do. People as a whole have made it abundantly clear to me that they'd rather see Rosa as a worthless shell of a character and view everything good about her as a negative. I have no incentive not to rant, because I'm not going to get anything out of it. PaladinCecil 13:55, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
"She'll never get the respect she deserves no matter what I say or do". Then take a hint please. "I have no incentive not to rant, because I'm not going to get anything out of it". You can keep your dignity. No one here likes ranting no matter what the subject. Debate, don't rant. Drake Clawfang
My dignity is worthless too. It does nothing for me. If you want to continue a back and forth with me, I'm fine doing that on my userpage, but I'm not going to stop my comments on here if there are people saying things like implying Rosa is slutty or claiming she's "deep as soggy cardboard." PaladinCecil 14:07, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Comments, you started the ranting! One guy made a casual comment about Rosa being slutty, and you started posting paragraphs yelling about it. Don't start what you can't finish. Drake Clawfang
Then let the people have their own opinion. You may think that Rosa is cool or super cool or else, we know that now. But you gotta accept the fact that not everyone here think the same way... SilverSummoner 14:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Again, there's a difference between "I don't like the character" and something more extreme. I understand why you think this is just me being unable to handle people having other opinions, but it's not. People who don't know a character come away thinking such things are true if someone doesn't speak up (and usually, nobody else will). I've found one person claim Rosa slept with Kain and dumped him for Cecil because she only cares about who has more power, and I found plenty of people who saw that claim, actually BELIEVED it, and hated Rosa for it. I think BlueHighwind's suggestion is a good one; these get so big because people are trying to tell me I'm not allowed to be frustrated that Rosa's never given a REAL chance for anything. PaladinCecil 14:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
How about this? Next time PaladinCecil talks, nobody says anything. And then its over. --BlueHighwind 14:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. I'm not going to waste my time, and I know the rest of you don't want to wast your time either, arguing with someone, no, a brick wall, who is shamelessly defending someone who doesn't even exist. This is over. PaladinCecil, none of us have any more words for you. - Deadlyslashsword
As I said would likely be best. And "brick wall?" If someone tries to actually DISCUSS the character instead of bashing her and/or looking for excuses to act like she sucks, I guarantee you'd get better results. "Rosa's clothing looks inappropriate to me" is much more likely to get a calm and open response than "Rosa looks like a slut." This is true for most any topic, not just this character. PaladinCecil 21:51, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
It's called "Other people's opinions" unless you're Hitler, Genghis Khan or Barack Obama, there's no way you can change their personal opinion. The only thing you can do is grin and bear it. Leon
Oh wow, politics? I hope that was a joke, because I was hoping such remarks would end after the election (I'd react the same no matter who was mentioned, because like how I'm sick of Rosa not getting the respect she deserves, I'm also sick of hearing people dig into each others' politicians all the time). I already laid out that there's a difference to me between simple statements of opinion and comments filled with malice intended to make her look bad. PaladinCecil 14:09, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

And I thought the last fight would have a huge argument...... Leon

I agree with you.Just a last thing to say : my last comment was not a stupid try to make PaladinCecil (if he still reads) quiet, but a real thought. See, the same way, Sephy could never be my favourite FF villain, only because of the battle sephy-kefka. I just can't like a character which raises such a debate, or actually I can like him/her in his/her universe, but not on a website designed for fandom (in the good meaning of fandom). Alarielle. Now, this was my last comment on this one, except if there happens to be an interesting discuss here.
Hey Alarielle we got the same B-day. Happy b-day. The 7th Chaos Esper must show love for those born on The Chosen Day. ChaosEsperVII

Why do people think that X is better than IV? And that's how they justify voting for Lulu over Rosa? FFX was just kinda... dumb? The characters weren't that great, either. While IV, on the other hand, had an epic story and unforgettable characters. This is my opinion, however, I know that there are FFX fans that are about to slaughter me right now -.- Yzz 15:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I won't slaughter you, but notice that I personnally find that 4 has a good story, but X is better for me. That is all a matter of preferences. And, forgive me, but don't tell Yuna isn't great when blue is watching. Or when I'm watching either. I like the rest of the cast, but even if I didn't, Yuna could, from my POV, raise the level above I to IV casts, on her own. This is my opinion. About Lulu, she makes contrast with the kind and quite silent Yuna and the over-expressive Rikku. She's a little cynist (not sure of the word), like me, and is the most exeperimented guardian, aside from Auron but he does not talk much about what the team should do. She's kind of the voice of wisdom, as we say in French, like er… could I dare say Rosa in IV ? I'm not sure, I haven't completed the story, but she makes me think of that. She has the same role, plus the love story, of course. Alarielle. PS : er thanks chaos esper and happy b-day to you too, but that would have been more appropriate on my talk page for instance ^^...

...Hopfully this will end soon becuse it is making the page hard to read. Konira

I hope so as well, I have a thing against frivolous match-ups like these that feel like their only purpose is to show how MUCH more one character is loved over another. Frivolous anything, really, not just this. PaladinCecil 18:27, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Um, no. Sorry, but this fight was not put up to show that Lulu is more loved than Rosa. I'm sorry it turned out that way, but THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT, NOR IS RANTING GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING. - Deadlyslashsword
I feel bad adding more, but I feel like I have to say this. That was a bad choice of words on my part. I meant more like we already knew how it would turn out, so the only value it ever had was to give specific numbers to the obvious. PaladinCecil 20:15, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Why is everyone acting like this is some landslide victory anyway? We've had much more one-sided fights between popular characters. I think everyone expected to see a one-sided fight and isn't taking into account that there's less than a 20% difference between the two? Frivilous my ass, just stop whining that your character is losing. arcanedude34
More that this is a pointless fight with a result we knew it would have before it even began. PaladinCecil 20:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
You're seriously just whining at this point. Both are major characters of games that aren't II or VIII, they both stood a fair chance. - RadLink5
Taking it to your talkpage (OR it'll go to mine; RadLink5 said there he doesn't want it on his talkpage) because I know people want me to stop posting here, but to end here, no, they did not have a fair chance. Anyone who wants to know why this is obvious can follow. PaladinCecil 21:10, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

oh no... who started it again? The debate is over guys! I suggest we decide the winner of this fight and moving on to the next fight to end this madness.... SilverSummoner 00:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC) I thought we have settled down the situation... obviously Deadlyslashword's and my effort are useless...

Unfortunately, I think this fight hasn't begun a week ago. But you're right, definitely. Alarielle
If I remember correctly, this fight was posted last Saturday, so only one more day of this ridiculousness - Deadlyslashsword 20:18, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Never seen anything like this... The ranting above is actually ridiculous, fun though! Terra_Homing

Older Fights!

You can find older fights in the Archives for the Dragon's Neck Colosseum. All of these fights are closed, so don't bother voting. All new votes will be removed.