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::::FF's greatest child. Zidane? Squall and his group got lucky to be able to get to her. Super powerful Sorcery+Time Compression>Sephiroth, and he got beat by a bunch of idiots and Cloud(like 3 times). Sucky is just an overhyped crappy villian who didn't learn. --[[User:AnonyMan|AnonyMan]] 02:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 
::::FF's greatest child. Zidane? Squall and his group got lucky to be able to get to her. Super powerful Sorcery+Time Compression>Sephiroth, and he got beat by a bunch of idiots and Cloud(like 3 times). Sucky is just an overhyped crappy villian who didn't learn. --[[User:AnonyMan|AnonyMan]] 02:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 
[[User:Anon]] Like Them Both But Squall rox
 
[[User:Anon]] Like Them Both But Squall rox
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Can't we just throw in the towel for Tidus already?! He's losing in the most lopsided fight I have seen in the DNC. Squall is just beating the blitzballer like a government mule! --[[User:JARIITX|Tex]]
 
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Revision as of 00:33, 18 June 2008

Uwee hee hee hee! Welcome, editors, to the Dragon's Neck Colosseum! My name is Ultros the receptionist, and each week I'm taking bets as to who will win in a tussle between two characters from the Final Fantasy series! The winner gets, well, nothing. It's more of a poll, really. The Colosseum owner stuck me on this duty after Kefka was defeated, but I need the money! So what are you waiting for? Get voting! Remember, you can remain anonymous! If you have any requests for future fights, please feel free to leave a message here.

The Rules, Briefly

Functionally, this is a popularity contest. You may vote for your favorite or who you think would win in an competition between the two combatants that week. You may vote only once. If you are a user, please include your vote in the user section. If you are not a user, please include your vote in the anonymous section. It is important to do this because user and anonymous votes carry different weight. Votes put in the wrong section may be deleted. When a new fight is created, generally once per week, the previous fight's votes will be totaled and its winner decided. Ties may be called if the victor won by a margin of 10% or less.

Week 73: Tidus v. Squall

Tidus art
Winner!!
undecided
Squallpretty
Who has more fun? Is it the blonde or the brunette, or better yet, which of these off-lookers would you say would win in a swordfight?

Votes for Tidus

  1. Dicey. This is definitely a tough decision. I vote Tidus.--High Summoner 04:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  2. actiondan: blah blah.. Tidus... at least he had a story that was worth being a story... hell.. even arguments over how to pronounce his name.. are about 5 million times more exciting than Squall!
  3. Tidus is my 3rd favourite main character. He's just more fun to play as. Adam mcduck
  4. TheSwordofDoubt 06:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  5. Acropolis : Come on Tidus. Please don't lose this one...so humiliating
  6. Bartz235: Looks like Tidus is going down. This is pretty humiliating. Tidus was one of the better main characters. Caladabolg with BlitzAce=Dead Squall.
  7. Rydiaofmist: Don't get me wrong, I HATED Tidus's voice. But that aside, I actually didn't mind him as a character. Sure, he was whiny and annoying at times, but watching Squall struggle with expressing his emotions was like pulling teeth. I guess I have more tolerance for annoying, expressive characters than aloof, emo ones.
  8. Slayerette: I vote Tidus because the whole Dream Zanarkand thing is cool. And because he is getting whipped in this fight. :(
  9. Xadren: I prefear Tidus, he's more affable and often speaks nonsense!
  10. Zack fair 007: Tidus is just a funny character. look, he's lost, but copes with it, he cheers people up about stuff he doesn't know about, so i mean come on, Tidus is downright funnier and better than squall. But, i greatly admire squall also. By the way, Squall wasn't modeled afrter GACKT. Genesis was. Check my userpage about my new FFX idea! And also, Tidus was the first character who looked like real person. Not squall. He looks kool in KH2:)
  11. Lycentia: While I actually liked VIII, Squall is just a little angsty for me.
  12. Pablo618: I like Tidus, I have no problem with him =)
  13. Maverick Riot: Sympathy vote really... I like both of them anyway, but this is a whitewash... Everyone said Tidus was annoying... he wasn't that bad honestly. Squall is probably a better character anyway, but they're both brilliant in different ways.
  14. Onewingedangel 05:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC) I hate love stories! specially Emo ones!
  15. DrakemasterDrake:I actually liked Tidus. Though everyone seems to hate him for being "emo" he acts just like a normal guy would if he got thrown into the future, he's confused, he's afraid, he just wants to go home, and then this one person he meets in the future he falls in love with, and then learns that she's going to die. You wouldn't complain?
  16. Nirvana Phoenix: Tidus is possibly my fave FF main character. His complexities and reactions to his arrival in Spira are very well written and performed. In battle he's very good as well and is usually part of my team, Caladbolg is cool and Jetch Shot rules at Blitz! He may not be as cool as Cloud or Squall (Squall's only cool in KH/II as Leon anyway) but he's a different, empathatic hero who is leagues and boundsa ahead of Squall.
  17. Lockhart: Not the best of leading men, but Squall just doesn't do it for me. Not even a contest for me.
  18. Oranejo: ..because he is really getting his ass kicked right now.

Anonymous votes

  1. I prefer Tidus. He had a better personality than Squall, He wasnt a whiner.
  2. ME WANT COOKIES!
  3. A gunblade is just plain stupid, good ol fashion sword slashin for me
  4. I Hate These Dragon's Neck Colosseum Things Because 85% Of Them Are Based On Pure Bias I'll Vote Based On Combat.Caladbolg (Triple Overdrive,Break Damage Limit Etc.)+Blitz Ace+Endless Road(Break HP & Mp Limit) Vs. Lionheart+Lion Heart=Tidus Uber Mega Pwning Squall
  5. Why Tidus is loosing man?Squall is such a Cloud's rip-off.
  6. Please, Tidus, Fight on!
  7. Squall is nothing but a whiny butt, always sulking, he couldn't win a fight against a grapefruit (grapefruit's are tough) Tidus is the first FF hero that actually looks Asian, ROCK ON.
  8. squall just acted like an arse then a lovesick puppy then an idiot, that's NOT character development that's just sad! tidus was passable as a human being at least and blonde :)
  9. Yumiko: Um, well Tidus wasnt so bad. FFX had a nice story and it stuck to mostly fantasy. VIII was too scifi-ish for me. I mean Squall is a great character (and he is not emo. just because someone wears a lot of black and broods a lot doesn't mean their emo!" and he was in a great game but he is winning by too much. Anyways I don't see why people don't like Tidus. He wasn't whiny. At least he wasn't intended to be. If you ever get a hold of the japanese version of X you'll understand.
  10. Tidus totally kicked some tail in FFX thanks to the shere grid, and Caladbolg was a dang sweet weapon. Sure, he got a little annoying, but who doesn't? He was a genuine character and just made the story all the better.
  11. I think Tidus is underrated... 10 had more depth than 8 and a lot of that can be credited to tidus. squall is cool too but tidus gets my vote.

Votes for Squall

  1. I doubt anybody could hate FFX as much as me. Squall wins because he exists and I'd take a mute over a whiner anyday --Maverick King 04:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  2. Yumino
  3. Squall for sure. I hate Tidus! I don't even have any other reason but that. Plus, I really like Squall. So I hope he wins. Vanishing Star
  4. Don't know or care who Tidus is, but I'm fairly sure he hasn't fought back to back with Cloud. Drake Clawfang
  5. Tidus even looks like a complete buffoon. Squall may not be the best protagonist either, but at least he looks sort of badass. I like that picture that TA chose to use. 8bit BlackMage 03:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  6. Shariii: Someone said Tidus wasnt a whiner? I hope that was sarcasm. To be honest, they were both a whiney, but in different ways. HMM.. This is actually quite tough, because I really do like both of them (and their games, X/VIII) quite a bit.. but.. gonna have to settle with Squall.. He would deffinately win in a fight over Tidus. Also, as a sidenote: he, other than Cloud, was one of the few FF characters I looked forward to seeing in KH and ended up being quite happy about the result (the Tidus in the original KH game was terrible :O) =].
  7. Otens: I have to go with Squall on this one. Sure not the friendliest guy but at least he wasn't originally *Spoilish* a dream.
  8. AnonyMan: Weird designed Gunblade weapon aside, I'd say Squall could more than handle Tidus. Despite being around the same age(somewhat) Squall's actually proficient fighter with his weapon, he didn't of become an expert after some lame old guy gives him a sword. Also Squall despite being just a bit bigger loser than Cloud at first eventually evolves into a cool guy, can't say the same for Tidus.
  9. Leon's decent in Kingdom Hearts. OtOcon^_- 04:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  10. VN: I don't hate Tidus but I hate Squall. I vote him simply because he reminds me of myself.
  11. Vito: Squall.
  12. Gyromite: This is the character that got me into FF, he was my role model as a little kid, and he is my 2nd favorite character of all time.
  13. BlueHighwind: Who do I hate more? Well, Squall is at least somewhat like Cloud (in fact, exactly like Cloud, only with a lamer backstory, girlfriend, weapon, and is in FFVIII, so he sucks). But Tidus is just awful all around. Yuna deserves better!
  14. Yes, I voted for Tidus first, then i rememberd the Dissidia picture if him. He looks like a cheap, trashy whore you'd find only in the worst parts of LA in the latest parts of the night.--Muchomas35 13:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  15. Slighter: Ah yes, ol' Squall, I do not like you (Cloud clone minus everything that makes Cloud awesome), but I do like your weapon. And yeh, Leon is cool.
  16. Dark raven: I actually like Squall. And Tidus is the second lamest main character in FF, after Vaan.
  17. TheRedMagus: Squall wasn't too bad, I suppose... at least not compared to the rest of the VIII cast. Whereas Tidus was just so annoying. In the end Squall gets my vote because at least you couldn't hear him talk.
  18. Hydronisa: Funny, up until now, FF8 has been the target of many an insult. But, whatever, Squall easily.
  19. Utopian Heretic: Squall may not be quite as epic as some other protagonists, but he easily owns Tidus.
  20. Squall has all the finess of a suicidal emo kid and the innocence of a sweet country boy. An original character from top to bottom who gets a hot a chick with pretty wings. Tidus is a make believe fairy tale boy come to life because some overgrown flying turd called Sin throw him up like bad tacos. FFX was more Yuna's story than anything else with FFVIII having Squall as a the main character with a fully fleshed out story.Seraphs blade 17:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  21. Francly I have never herd of Squall but he gets my vote simply because Tidius is a blond who is useful for more than comedy, and that is so far out there, and from what I read Squall might actualy be able to exist in todays !@#$ed up world. Neverherd of him yet he gets my vote. Is that odd? Southgale
  22. klaros: squall all the way! he looks awesome, the gunblade is one of the best ff weapons ever and he is also my 3rd favourite character (zidane and zack 1st and 2nd). squall is awesome!!!!
  23. ChiefKakashi: This is what it came to for me: Squall can actually dress himself.
  24. ChaosEsperVII: The 7th Chaos Esper remembers how badass Squall was in his opening cinema and enjoyed being in Squall's head. And also cuz he is like Cloud. Tidus should not have come back to existence because it takes away from the tragic ending of Final Fantasy X.
  25. Super Sephiroth: They are both crappy main characters, but Squall has Lion Heart Limit Break, own Tidus. 'Nuff said.
  26. GunbladeWarlord: Squall is probably the most powerful main character in Final Fantasy(Sic Semper Lionheart) (Black Mage aside), so yeah, he wins.
  27. Mr. Rojo: I liked both characters, but well Squall was a mercenary and tidus just a blitzball player. Squall would win in combat easy. Also, personaly I think Squall was very cool and is my favorite main character.
  28. Etch: Dont get me wrong, both characters have their heroic moments, but james arnold taylor just brings down what tidus could have been. im pretty sure they dont have such problems with tidus in japan because the voice acting is much better and isnt annoying. dont blame tidus for being annoying blame the voice acting is all i say. but that aside squalls one of my fav characters just cuz he kicks so much ass in the storyline. ill say my 2 cents on tidus another day.
  29. Chaltier:Never really liked Tidus.
  30. He was the best fighter on my team, could do about 9500 with every slash with Lionheart. Cloudofdarkness 15:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
  31. BoredFreakTribal: I vote for SQUALL!!!!
  32. Faethin: Well I actually like Squall. And you know what else, I LIKE ULTIMECIA TOO. There.
  33. Theentertainer: Clueless vs. Calculated thats easy, its Squall. Griever, Gunblades, Renzokuken. A Summoners Guardian vs. A Sorceress' Knight and a Merc leader to boot. gotta give it up to Squall. Not many guys can pull of Angst and Angry in leather and fur.
  34. Nyxana: Squall. Can't say I like the guy but in comparison to Tidus he wins hands down. Even Tidus' own father couldn't stand him, and with good reason.
  35. Squall!! ~Zero (0)
  36. Lord Knight Xiron - Squall all the way man. Calm, collected, awesome (trained!!!) swordsman who weilds an impressive, unique, specialized weapon, and doesn't spend the game complaining about how badly is father treated him. Not to mention that Squall never had that cheesy fake-laugh moment.
  37. Genesis rhapsodos: No offense to Tidus but this is an easy choice for me. Squall was awesome, always kept his cool and knew what to do when nobody else did. He took on any problem and didn't let his burdens become anyone elses. Dark, cool, and intense. A total bad A. Squall wins this round pretty bad A.
  38. Mateus_the_Corrupt: I will voted for Squall coz he kicks ass, man! And to think that Tidus is a total moron, his sword has no chance with Squall's gunblade.
  39. Netherith: As to be expected here is my vote.
  40. UM: Don't get me started on Tidus...
  41. Dramirth: I will give my vote for Squall, absolutely! He's a trained mercenary and has mastered a highly unusual, difficult weapon. Tidus is just a sports star and when Auron first gave him a sword, he couldn't even pick it up properly. I like both of the guys here, but Squall is just so much cooler in any way.
  42. I cannot believe I'm saying this, but....Squall. Oh god now I have to purify my computer! TBM
  43. I may be one of the minority but i actually liked squall, Tidus just annoyed me he just whined about everything and he doesn't stand a choice against lionheart. Oh, and squall is better by default as he wasn't a part of the dreaded fake laugh scene....Terra_Homing
  44. Judge Zarbi: Gunblade>Brotherhood. 'Nuff said.
  45. dudutsai: If they are going to make the main character say stupid stuff, at least have it be silent without a voice actor to make it worse.
  46. Jammi568: Squall. Better story and better game.
  47. Invisible.ink 03:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC) :I like FFX but Tidus is a loser. And Squall could kick his ass.
  48. Eirwen Not only was Squall the first FF protagonist I came across with, it's also like brining a knife to a gunblade fight.
  49. Aleria Brunettes are better than blondes, any day. And at least Squall is actually real. Plus, he's a mercenary. What more can I say.
  50. AvaGirl10Roses: Wow. This'll be a landslide. Tidus sucks majorly. MAJORLY. And at least Squall is a cool main character... he looks sexy in Kingdom Hearts, too. :]

Anonymous votes

  1. Squall, hands down.
  2. Squall is a trained warrior. Tidus is a trained.. Blitzball player. Need I say more?
  3. Squall WILL win! I've never really liked Tidus... plus a gunblade is one of the most famous weapons Square ever produced(alongside the buster sword)
  4. Squall is GACKT, despite Nomura denying, ppl can see the resemblance. Gackt owns Tidus.
  5. noob: Tidus has some awesome swords and attacks, but then his character's just not cool enough. Actually, Squall does have some cool attacks also. Anyways, Squall's character is a whole lot better then Tidus.
  6. Squall would destroy Tidus...trained Mercenary vs Whiney Waterpolo guy. Need I say more?
  7. Squall has the famous Gunblade...which just owns. Tidus is ok but hes not a very good warrior at all.
  8. I vote for the brunette. Squall may not have a voice actor during Final Fantasy VIII (The voice actor of Leon gives justice to the character though) but I'd rather not hear Squall talk rather than hear Tidus speak. His voice actor sucks.
  9. Squall is cool and collected, analyzing a battle to know how to win. Tidus blindly jumps in and is reckless. I choose the one who WILL win, not has a small chance to win.
  10. I vote for squall. I never played anything past 9 (except for revenant wings but thats another story) but squall, albeit a moody guy, kicks more ass than tidus.
  11. Squall wins with gunblade :)
  12. Renzokuken was awesome, Tidus had nothing on it
  13. Squall is BEYOND sexy and Tidus is just kind of there...
  14. Squall is very powerfull
  15. If you think about it Squall would clearly win. After all he has a sword and a gun in the same weapon. So if he starts getting low on health, he can start running and shooting. So there.
  16. Squall would win hands down, Tidus wasn't even a real person plus he played Blitzball. Squall would completely wipe the floor with him.
  17. SeKaLoYa: FFX is cool but VIII is still my favorite. It is arguably the only installment in the series to diverge from the traditional interface and battle system. Also, Squall's character had more room for development as the story progressed.
  18. Judge Zarbi: Gunblade>Brotherhood. 'Nuff said.
  19. Tidus is a little whiny retard. He needs to die! Squall, on the other hand, is really cool thought! D:
  20. Squall was trained professionally to be a fighter Tidus is an underwater soccer/basketball player who was just handed a a sword and told what to hit. Plus Squall was real, and supports a wicked cool scar.


Peanut Gallery

Otens: I've either seen this one before or expected it. I'm pretty sure I've expected it though.

I don't seem to remember if this one happened, but I'm think it'll be a lot colser than it is now. People hate Tidus and FFX, but people aslo loathe FFVIII and Squall probably even more(Well, VIII more than X not Squall more than Tidus). --AnonyMan 04:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Otens: Though you have to admit, at least Squall has the advantage because he constantly was trained as a mercenary. I've still never understood why people never liked it though but I guess it was just a matter of opinion.
Time out. I don't care who's name it is in question, but I've never seen a name debate so intense that it can overshadow a Final Fantasy character in terms of interest. Unless we're talking about Mystic Quest, otherwise, name debates are infinitely more boring. The recent Aeris-Aerith debate reminded me of that. Besides, seeing as how it only ever appears in text, who cares how it is pronounced? Drake Clawfang 05:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Otens:Indeed. I could just rename those characters to how I see fit anyway.

Is it Seh-cil, or See-cil? Aeris or Aerith? Tee-dus or Tie-dus? I've got a better question: who cares anymore? Drake Clawfang 05:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Otens: Square-Enix when they took away being able to rename characters [Insert sad-face.]
VNTidus is neither Tee-dus or Tie-dus in Japanese version. His name was spelled Ti-da
Ya Otens. I fear what could happen when Final Fantasy IV DS is released. For all we know, all this time Rydia was actually just a mistranslation of Lydia or something. And if Square Enix is gonna try and rename my two favorite FF babes, I am gonna blow a fuse. Retcons piss me off. Get the story straight the first time! Drake Clawfang 05:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
It's highly unlikely that Rydia will be Lydia in the DS version. If they changed it, they would in the Advance version. OtOcon^_- 05:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

My aren't they the most hated heroes ever? One whiner and one emo. All you care about is hot babes. Meh... anyhow, noble hero stereotypes are so yesterday. So I guess I don't mind their existence. When I play FFX I didn't see Tidus whining, any proof? In the he was the one who break the tradition that about sacrificing summoners to defeat Sin. VN

That's not true, I care about much more than hot babes. But whenever I end up talking about Aeris or Rydia, my mine usually ends up there. As for the heroes, Squall was alright, and Leon in Kingdom Hearts kicked ass. Drake Clawfang 05:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Otens: People only called him a whiner because of Jecht an Auron. In the future I see a Final fantasy X Prequel! Let us hope not.
Let us hope so! FFX had the second worst cast of the Final Fantasy ever, beaten only by FFVIII. If you get rid of Kimarhi, Wakka, Tidus, and Rikku, things would have been fine. I can live with trading Lulu for Jecht, who was a much cooler character then his son could ever be (and his outfit made sense). Really it would be like playing the whole game with just Yuna (Braska), Tidus (Jecht), and Auron (Auron), who were pretty much the only characters I used anyway. Not to mention that Auron would play an even larger role in this game, not pussy Tidus to take the spotlight. You just need a Black Mage girl to even it all out. Hmmm... Edea, perhaps? =) --BlueHighwind 11:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm just glad Jecht is playable in Dissidia and I can rain down punishment upon Tidus and everyone else with Jecht's AWESOME SWORD! Fingers crossed for Final Aeon Transformation mode!--Muchomas35 13:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Dissidia looks ok. I bet people are just aching for Cloud to be revealed so his vs Match with Squall is a reality, when it doesn't matter. Zidane could beat them both. --AnonyMan 15:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Hmm having a game with Braska, Jecht and Auron isn't such a bad idea... better them than YRP right? =O I'm not rooting for FFX prequel but if they wanna do a story on Braska and his guardians better to an anime or movie on that. I sure would love to see it. But Jecht is still not your best example of a dad. Because of him his son is a whiner ;P --VN
Yeah, Laguna's cooler and a much better father who's just a bad for not being around at all, not really his fault. If he was Sqaull would have been like the best FF Main character. --AnonyMan 15:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I am playing X right now and I have to admit that I actually like Tidus more than I thought I would. His voice is annoying but, along with Auron and Rikku, he does not come of as naive like the others do.(at least so far) X has actually been an overall pleasant surprise for me, I find it really fun to play, I like the cast, and I love the Aquatic theme of the game. However I find it hard to vote against Squall in this situation. My only experience with VIII is a demo, but for about 6 years Squall and Cloud were the only two FF protoganists I knew. So I can not hate the guy, plus he was badass in Chocobo Racing. If he continues to dominate though I just may have to give a pity for Tidus.--Oranejo 17:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Squall isn't in Chocobo Racing. That's an FFVII thing, and Cloud rides the Chocobo in the race. --BlueHighwind 19:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I thought Cloud *was* the Chocobo in the race, or so my user quote says... Drake Clawfang 19:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
No, the actually game Chocobo Racing. I do not know what possesed me to get the game when I was younger (I think it came with a free Chocobo bank), but it was really fun.--Oranejo 19:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Whiner or not, he's like a comic relief throughout the game. He makes me laugh (in a good way)--VN
Tidus is just one of those characters with a really bad rap, mainly i think its because his voice acting is so high strung and irritating. but if you look at what he did, knowingly doing something when it would mean he wouldnt exist. he had heart, at least give him that. as i said in my vote, james arnold taylor shouldnt have had the part. if he was given a different voice and he used the same dialogue im pretty sure he wouldnt be anywhere near as annoying as he can be. Besides that, i always liked his narration throughout the game, gave it a real personal feel. but my vote still goes for squall because i understand why he acts the way he does and i connect with him more. Etch 3:04, 14 June 2008
yeah I completely understand why Squall acts that way. And I kinda agree with him when he says "I don't want anyone to talk about me in past tense" --VN

Who deleted my vote? Cloudofdarkness 15:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

False alarm, I may of done it. Cloudofdarkness 15:47, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Etch, I agree with you 100%. It was the voice acting that was the problem. Even though I did vote for him, I still think I was being a little hard on poor ol' Tidus with my comments. He was generally a good guy. Rydiaofmist

Strange I had no problem with his voice acting. James Arnold Taylor is pretty talented. --VN

Ya know how come we all seem to hate either the main character or the game itself. X was the first game I had played and it wasnt half bad. The only thing that I have against VIII was the graphics (the pixels are killing me!). We should really vote on what the best game was!.--User:Saraija Merinas

Am I seeing things, or did somebody up there call Squall a "butt"? Perhaps we've finally attracted that preschool market that all the wikis are dying for these days. And did that same guy praise Tidus for looking Asian? What's with the racist Japanese jingoism, man? Why would race even be a factor in how much you like a character? --BlueHighwind 22:52, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I think they were talking about the fact he sorta looks asian(in cutscenes) making sense because he's a character designed by a Japanese game company. Still that shouldn't matter when concerning fictional characters. --AnonyMan 23:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Otens: Besides, they were both drawn the same way by Amano, Feminine and with a dark attitude. Not complaining about it, but now that I think about it, he really doesn't draw many happy faces.
East-Asian to be exact. In case you didn't learn, Asian does not only focus on Japanese or the likes. Anyways, I've always thought Tidus looks like a Japanese with bleached hair. Well, they had no choice but to use Japanese as motion actors anyway, that's why most characters look Japanese in spite of being blonde and rosy. Balthier is a different case, I heard his motion actor is western. Oh did I notice someone saying that Squall was based on Gackt? Nah, I heard Squall was based on some Japanese model.VN
Yeah, I agree. I do not think Squall is based off of Gackt, Genesis is based off of Gackt. Also maybe the anon who listed Tidus looking Asian as a reason why he/she voted for him is because maybe that user is Asian. I did not really take it as a serious/main reason but rather an extra little incentive as to why he/she voted for him.--Oranejo 17:06, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, if that user is Asian, and they prefer Asians, wouldn't that make them a racist bastard? Round up the folk, boys, we need to get a lynch mob going. I suffer not racist bastards! --BlueHighwind 17:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Not really, maybe Tidus just got points in their book for being similar to them.--Oranejo 19:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Judging a person to be superior to another based upon race is racism. That's how it works. --BlueHighwind 19:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
You seem to be taking this too seriously. I do not recall the user saying Squall was an inferior being, or if a character who looks like they are Asian is superior. The user simply could have saw a little bit of themselves in Tidus, or maybe they think they look like Tidus. The user called Squall a butt for crying out loud, how serious do you think they really were?--Oranejo 20:12, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

ChaosEsperVII: Someone said that Squall is the most powerfull FF main character. Sorry, that title belongs to Cloud. Cloud has Omnislash. And he is a Sephiroth clone. I think SquareEnix makes it a point to keep him their most powerful hero. The 7th Chaos Esper forever has Cloud's back. Or Vincent could be the strongest main, even though Choas left him, he's still immortal because of Hojo's experiments. The 7th Chaos Esper forever has Vincent's back too.

Plot-wise those guys aren't the most powerful, just in their universe. Cloud's not the strongest Main either. Seriously, Zidane would manhandle his reject ass and Ultimecia would bitchslap Sephiroth acorss the space-time compressed continuum. I do agree about Squall not being that great, he's trained yes, but he's not really special. Gameplay-wise Renzokuken is overrated and not as good as Duel. --AnonyMan 13:44, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Bartz235We can settle all this in Dissidia, right? Can't Wait, but I agree with AnoyMan.
Sephiroth would totally END Ultimecia! A bad Edea stand-in couldn't beat Final Fantasy's greatest child!!! If Squall his idiots could do it, Sephiroth can do it and with style. --BlueHighwind 02:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
FF's greatest child. Zidane? Squall and his group got lucky to be able to get to her. Super powerful Sorcery+Time Compression>Sephiroth, and he got beat by a bunch of idiots and Cloud(like 3 times). Sucky is just an overhyped crappy villian who didn't learn. --AnonyMan 02:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Anon Like Them Both But Squall rox

Can't we just throw in the towel for Tidus already?! He's losing in the most lopsided fight I have seen in the DNC. Squall is just beating the blitzballer like a government mule! --Tex

Week 72: Freya v. Fran

Winner!!
Fran
46 v. 38
Battle of the anthropomorphic allies. There are plenty of long, wordy explanations that I might use to describe this fight, but it boils down to this: ratty poke-poke or bunny bow-bow?

Votes for Freya

  1. Drake Clawfang - Because I know who she is. Fran, not so much.
  2. Faethin: Freya is the second best dragoon evar.
  3. Darkling692: Fran may look hotter but Freya has tons of personality and that's Fran's weak point
  4. Otens: My favorite dragoon and a favorite in Final fantasy IX. I like Fran, but Freya actually is limited so you know her potential.
  5. Blykus 23:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
  6. Oranejo: I choose ratty poke-poke, even though I prefer rabbits to rats.
  7. N/A 02:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  8. AnonyMan: Freya's another great character(also from IX) and generally cool. Fun to use gameplay-wise. And who didn't think the little dance ritual in Cleyra wasn't awesome? Fran is...not bad, she's quite simliar to Freya character-wise but other than a couple of scenes she's much more boring, the most boring of XII's Main bunch. Freya may not be as "easy on the eyes" as Fran to some but she doesn't look as dumb.
  9. Lockhart: Freya is one my favorite characters in the entire series. Plus she has one of the best theme songs. Go Freya!
  10. Andre666: Freya is pretty damn awesome and IX > XII any day.
  11. LinkSlySora: I find Freya to overall be better then Fran. Dragoons are awesome, and Freya has special abilities that are useful, and aren't considered magic. I also think IX is better then XII.
  12. Adam mcduck:Freya is a great character who I actually found useful, Fran was an OK-ish character but I found her useless in battle.
  13. Otherarrow: Better character from a better game.
  14. Chocobo Knight: Because three FFIX guys in a row would be awesome. Actually seriously, I like them both, but Freya slightly more...because of the whole Dragoon thing
  15. 8bit_BlackMage: I really wish I had the time to start another FFIX save file and play through with Freya, but oh well, real life. :) I like Burmecia's theme song too, and Dragoons as a whole are cool.
  16. Hyacynth Freya is hands down one of my favorite FF female characters ever, right below Celes. I wanted to like Fran, I really did, but I found her mostly devoid of personality. I guess that passes for "mysterious" but I'll take the river dancin', javelin' throwin', DRAGON'S CREST-usin' rat over the bunny in lingerie any day.
  17. User:Leiber_Mage: Currently replaying FFIX for the fourth time (can't say that about XII though) And I've loved Freya ever since the first playthrough. I find her a very useful character in battle if you develop them all equally, and her story of love and loss is memorable. Who cares if she's a rat? I liked Fran and did have her in my party even more than Balthier, but Freya shall always be one of my main gals, simply because of her spear, Sir Fratley and the times Jump has saved my ass. "To be forgotten is worse than death"
  18. User:Clvabl: Rock on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  19. Mr. Rojo: I think Freya was a better character than Fran, although at the end she was more like a secondary character but Fran was so lack of personality. Freya was also a great dragoon and very useful.
  20. BluSil: Even though she did become more of a secondary character after disc 1, the story she had was deep and added a better depth to the character and FFIX overall, i could play 12 without fran but 9 without Freya wouldn't feel right.
  21. Skoot85: I think Freya is cooler even though i hated FFIX because of gameplay. It had some of the best characters and one of the if not the best storylines. Freya is a better character.
  22. I hate Fran. OtOcon^_- 02:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  23. Rydiaofmist: I like them both about equally, so I'm just gonna go with Freya because she's losing.
  24. CidTheFirst: Has it not chanced upon all those voting for Fran that she has no real character? She left home and met Balthier; end. Freya is a roaming dragoon knight who abandonned her kingdom to seek out her lost love, who, when found, has lost all memory of her. She is just the better character.
  25. Saraija Merinas: I didnt know when I sugguested this it would be this close. Pokey-Pokey!!
  26. Yumino
  27. Chocolancer 22:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC): I was playing Final Fantasy XII one day as Fran alone when a friend dropped by and saw me play. She asked me how she could run on those high-heels, which explains why I vote for Freya...
  28. Gold: Dont do this people! FREYA FTW!!!
  29. VN: I notice most people vote Fran because she's 'hot'. This ain't a beauty contest, people. Grow up. Anyways, I do like both Freya and Fran... but Freya's quote "To be forgotten is worse than death." gave a huge impact to me. Although her love interest lost his memories, she didn't go emo/suicidal; instead she remains strong even till the end of the game. I see her as an inspiration. Fran is just witty, but she didn't have enough aura to move people.
  30. Crazyswordsman: She's Freya. And she doesn't sound like she has a bad Irish accent.
  31. TacticAngel: I like them both, but I think Freya is a lot deeper, and she's a dragoon... so...
  32. Genesis rhapsodos: I like them both and think they're both pretty awesome, but I think Freya was pretty cool as a dragoon, where as Fran the "weapons specialist" was only good with weapons if ou made her be.

Anonymous votes

  1. IndridCold: Freya(Freja, vatever) is uber much kooler, Fran doesn't seem to have much of a personality...
  2. AlexY: Freya is much more developed than Fran. And she is a much more tragic character than Fran as well. Don't get me wrong, I love Fran as well, but Freya has that "special something". She wins with her charm, not with her looks (and that's always better :P ).
  3. Freya is hot!!! I mean just look at her!! Jking, but no Freya>>>>>>>>>>>Fran. Also IX>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>XII. TA go with Garnet vs Ashe, next. DO IT!!!!! Or put some IV characters and VI characters in fights, please!!!!!! Also to Brain vote #7, Fran and Balthier may have made XII, I won't argue with that, but look at XII. It's a pile of crap.
  4. Shes my favourite dragoon, i like fran as well there both 2 of my favourite characters, but i dont think Freya deserves to lose by as much as she is, im hoping for a tie lol
  5. to be forgotten is worse than death
  6. Rainacide - Freya, FTW. One of the more interesting dragoons in FF & plus she's a female. That's pimp.
  7. Freya's kinda cool. Has a bit of story and personality to her. Cool attacks, spear. Etcetera. Fran might be better looking, but Freya's just better.
  8. I prefer dragoons to archers and rats to bunnies. And Freya's one of my favourite characters from all FF. So it's decided :P.

Votes for Fran

  1. BlueHighwind: Dragoon or not, Fran is stronger, and better looking. Rats are ugly. If Balthier sees her fit to make his #1 Bitch, then certainly then I have no reason to question.
  2. Shariii Freya makes my eyes cry.. Seriously, I dont like female characters in games as it is.. but by jeeves.. Plus Fran kicked some ass when she went psycho.
  3. Vito: Fran.
  4. Fran was actually a pretty interesting character, filled with Viera mystique. She also handled herself pretty well in battle and I love the scene when she freaks out. Not to mention the fact that Vieras are genetically designed to weal stilettos based on the structural makeup of their feet. (True Story) I never really cared for Freya much. I don't care if she is a dragoon, she's ugly and I just can't do ugly.--High Summoner 00:29, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  5. Tex: Fran, hands down.
  6. Big mamou: Mist God-Mode beats Trance.
  7. Fran has the best quotes of the series -Henryacores 01:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  8. Mateus_the_Corrupt: When it comes to FFXII characters, I should voted for Fran, she's hotter than the Sun or Lola Bunny.
  9. Drake:I never like Freya (last boss I fought with her was that ARK thing, because I had to. That was the only boss of Disc 3 that I fought using her, actually) and I love Fran's voice.
  10. :) HexedTourney
  11. Jammi568: Ditto BH. Both here and the comments section.
  12. AkwardNinja: Rats smell.....
  13. Leon5550:Fran kicks ass and shes THE strongest female character in FF12(storywise) and she's frikin hot 2
  14. Blackheart1991: Fran is cool and she is more important to the story.
  15. Aleria:
  16. Cloudofdarkness says: Fran wins, easily
  17. I just think rabbits are cuter. But Fran is like a sexy hare, which is even better than a bunny. --Muchomas35 13:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  18. Maverick King:Playboy bunny?
  19. Maverick Riot:Fran has the image. I liked Freya, but I just had a feeling that once she'd done her little bit in the game, they kind of dumped her and left her to be a background character. Even Quina got little moments here and there. But Freya? Not a lot. Plus Fran looks good. But it is a tough one... I've just always been angry they didn't give Freya enough story, else I probably would have been more torn...
  20. TheRedMagus: Fran was one of the few characters I liked in XII. I didn't like Freya so much, she faded into the background.
  21. Dark raven: Oh yes.
  22. Pikmin Master: Fran has versatility, both gameplay-wise and image-wise. Plus, if I had FFXII, I would use Fran all the time. I never really liked Freya and Fran is the only non-Hume playable character of FFXII.
  23. Actiondan: Fran's the man
  24. Mjka: Fran is just cool like that.
  25. SCM: :)
  26. UM: Fran. *sigh* Just listen to her say 'Oubliette'.
  27. Harlequin..: Fran all the way. Fran and Balthier were my favorite characters in FFXII. She's also one of the coolest characters out of all the FF games in my opinion.
  28. Zero (0): Bunny Bow-bow!
  29. Etch: cant say i liked either character that much but fran's the more chill of the 2. i mean, a rat, come on! besides vivi (for various reasons), most of the other main characters in ff9 make you feel like you're travelling with a band of misfits or something. you got a horny monkey boy, a rat, a little annoying girl with a horn on her head, a real joke of a monk, and whatever the hell quina is (he/she's the worst by far). the only other character that i would say is normal is garnet. so my vote goes to fran, balthier and basch who make ff12.
  30. Vanishing Star: I love Freya, she was one of my favorites and I can relate to her quote, "To be forgotten is worse than death." But, I'd have to choose Fran on this one. She's just overall cooler. Their personalities are just about the same, but, Fran shines through. She made FFXII great, along with Balthier and Ashe for me.
  31. AvaGirl: Fran, definitely, because she's a Viera, she's got a great accent, and she's with Balthier. Besides, she has some pretty sweet Quickenings.
  32. Sora G. Strife No explanation.
  33. Southgale WEll I know who Fran is and she is like OMFGSH (oh my !@#$ing god she's hot) and not everyone can us a bow and look as good as she dose. That and I think more people like bunnies than rats based on bunnies are so much cuter than rats anyday.
  34. ChiefKakashi 17:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  35. Yamiza Hmm, I know Fran better, and she's got a good design, so my vote goes for her.
  36. XXXI Harakon Fran is great. Her Quickenings are really effective and i used her all the way. Freya is not cool enough to get my vote. Fran owns. Also, if Fran has a gun, she is super-good.
  37. Gyromite: Freya is alright, but Fran is just awesome. She is the best FF female character behind Rikku, plus on the Leviathan, she went crazy and killed 3 Imperials in 5 seconds! Id like to see someone tell me that wasnt awesome.
  38. SuperSeph: The sexy bunny copilot easily wins the tussle. The only thing going for FReya is her sig.
  39. Zephyrus11: Her "The gods are toying with us" line made me laugh out loud, her accent is sexy, and shes the only non-human in the XII party.
  40. Zack fair 007:She is probaly my best character in ffxii right now. Damn, that walk is unbeatable!
  41. Mr. Kaizer: I'd vote for Freya if it weren't for a person known as Azasuke Wind and his artwork. Gotta say, besides the endless suckage, FFXII at least had one thing going for it. A hot piece of nut-brown rabbit ass. Yeah, I said it.

Anonymous votes

  1. Definitely Fran. She's incredibly witty, hot, and downright AWESOME. Her wrath is also one thing you would NOT want to incur.
  2. I personally Don't like FF9, besides, what's so memorable about Freya?....At least Fran went berserk...
  3. She's just too pretty and has such a great voice. ^^
  4. Though choise for me :p but Fran looks like playboy bunny :)
  5. noob: Fran's a lot hotter!
  6. Brian: Fran and Balthier MADE FF12.
  7. Fran for sure. That walk. That body. Those ears!!!
  8. She's got legs that don't stop.
  9. Fran's a better fighter, better looking, etc.
  10. Contrary to Freya's 3rd anonymous vote, FFXII is not a pile of crap. The only people who could say that are the ones who never played it or got defeated one to many times due to whatever reasons. If you give Fran a bow or a sword or an axe and good magics, as well as a decent gambit set up, she can cause more destruction than her 3 imperals in 5 second rampage.
  11. Both cool characters, but Fran gets my vote.
  12. Personally, I like both characters. Freya was an assett to my IX team, and Fran was, and is (still playing it) apart of my XII team. However, I have to pick Fran based on a couple of reasons. 1) Looks-While Freya is a Dragoon, at the cost of be considered shallow, I have to go with the Final Fantasy Hottie Supreme, Fran. She is beautiful, as well as exotic. 2) I love Fran's voice. Her voice seems to be soft, with a eerily caribbean feel to it which is part of my heritage so, kudos. 3) Fran is the first main stream character that I have played with that uses a bow, and was effective at it. Plus, her armor fits her already dangerously curvy body. And 4) Simply put, while I like Freya, Fran is intergral to the story of FFXII, while Freya is simply in search of her husband, who I might add, is a badass. So, the vote ultimately goes to Fran.

Peanut Gallery

I'm having a difficult time choosing who to vote for. On the one hand, Freya is a badass Dragon. On the other, Fran is a sexy Viera. Freya is a rat creature, and certainly hidious. And she's not to good in battle (Stiener and Zidane are both finer physical attackers). Yet Fran has no special ability, though she was tough as nails with the Formuhault. And Fran hangs with Balthier. And FFXII beats FFIX any day. I think I know who to vote for now. --BlueHighwind 21:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm guessing Freya takes the win in the ontest of who's the more popular Anthropomorphic animal female animal character who's name begins with "Fr". Fran's appearance is a bit ridiculous and Viera already look ridiculous too. Are were going for three in a row with FFIX characters? That'd be great --AnonyMan 22:38, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Let's not have any FFIX characters for a while after this. --BlueHighwind 22:43, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Awww, I was going to request a Rat Kid one after this xP. -Otens
I'm feeling Ashe v. Garnet next, or shall I have mercy. --TacticAngel 23:37, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Mercy, I'm tired of the IX characters too. And there's plenty of other good suggestions. Drake Clawfang 23:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Hopefully not another repeat match. I can't remember, has Cecil versus Ramza taken place? -Otens

Once again, many vote blindly for the hot one. Is anyone surprised by this? Drake Clawfang 14:24, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Nope, that's like the only thing she has over Freya. Even though her race isn't really ugly they don't have as many human features as Viera do, if Bermecians were all women then maybe they would. I didn't expect her to start trailing like this. Not against Fran at least. Also, Freya and Trance>>>Fran's berserker event that happened once. AnonyMan 14:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I personally count more than half a dozen votes voting for Fran because she's hot. I mean, come on, you can vote for a character who happens to be hot, but don't vote for a character just because she's hot. Drake Clawfang 15:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Seriously, it's not like this was a "Vote for who you think looks hotter". Oh, well can't do much about that. It's sucks Freya's getting treated like this so far. She's done better against better and more popular characters.AnonyMan 15:08, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Voting for characters based on appearance may not be the best reason, but I have seen some votes in other fights that have not exactly had stellar reasoning behind them either. I voted for Freya, but you have to admit she does sort of fade into the background as the game goes on, like TheRedMagus said.--Oranejo 17:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with that. Freya(as well as a few others) fade as the game goes on, but so does Fran except worse. Esepcailly so given XII's focus on it's Story than characters.AnonyMan 21:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Is is really so bad to have a game with a real plot? Really, FFXII was a step in the right direction for this series. No more lame hijinks and buffoonery like in FFX. You really FFX? The whole plot was just a party of dim-witted fools (except Auron) walking forward for about thirty hours, then you go to Sin, and walk forward for another two. Yawn. War, politics, and historical dramas are much more interesting. It had characters I could really sink my teeth into and sympathsize with. --BlueHighwind 21:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not badmouthing XII's plot, it was cool change. I do think it could have been better, considering how cool the begining was, after that it's just dull and drawn out alot of the time. All I was saying is when you're dull in a game not concentrating on said dull character(s) there's something wrong. And don't get me started on FFX.AnonyMan 22:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

No, really, you should all go fuck yourselves you disgusting perverts. --Alcaeus

Why Alcaeus?
Because your all saying that a Rabbit-woman, as in half Rabbit half human, is hot. That is disgusting and boarding on Zoophilia.Cheesewow 07:51, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
If Balthier has no problem with it, then neither do I. Are you going to question The Man? Are you? --BlueHighwind 14:03, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Balthier doesn't have a problem with it because he purposely picked a her as his partner becuase she's boring, so he'd get noticed more. --AnonyMan 00:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
She wasn't boring. Penelo was boring. Vaan was boring. "I want to be a Sky Pirate" - that's fucking boring. Fran was an interesting character. A person lost between a Hume society that sees her as alien and a xenophobic Viera society that conisiders her a traitor. Her relationship with Balthier was also worth examining. Professional, yet there's... something more. Scully and Mulder, if you will. --BlueHighwind 00:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
She has a bit of sotry around her she's still a dull character. Vaan has a good personality, you make it sound like he's a drab stoic or something, he's just ineffectual in the grand scheme really which is how he was designed. You got me on Penelo she has a decent persoanlity and her realtionship with Vaan is entertaining but that's all she has, she makes Vaan look a important by comparison. --AnonyMan 00:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Vaan's personality is about as far from "good" as you could ever get. Its offensively stupid and naive, with just a touch of pointless. --BlueHighwind 00:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
That's also apart of his connection of being the perspective character, going out into the world which he knows almost nothing about he's not that dumb, ignorant yes, but he's not mentally retarded. He's cheeferful and someone you could hang out, with he's like Vyse from Skies of Arcadia just without the significant impact. I'm glad he's there since he's my favorite character and wouldn't have played XII if he weren't. --AnonyMan 01:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
VAAN IS YOUR FAVORITE CHARACTER??!!!! My God, man!! My God! You relate to that character? You understand him? You see some of yourself inside him? I don't understand you. Vaan either really stupid, and I mean really stupid. You know, how Penelo practically forces herself on him, but yet he doesn't even realize she likes him. Or maybe he does notice, only he doesn't care for her and lets her continue chasing him just for the sick pleasure. Either way there is nothing to like in Vaan's character. Cheeful, maybe. But Balthier did a better job of keeping the game's storyline from taking itself too seriously. Vaan is the Jar Jar of FFXII. --BlueHighwind 01:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Uh, yes. Part of my personality I see in him, that's why he's my favorite character. He's also cool. He cares enough about Penelo to go and save her, and go along with everyone else almost solely on her decision to do so, not all friendships between male/females have to have romance in it. Balthier just has a bunch of overhyped lines people drool over play out terribly for some reason. He's cool but jeez, people need to shut the hell up like he's that amazing. Sad to say as well, I don't hate Jar Jar like most people, he's not my favorite SW character but I don't have a seething loathing for him like just about everyone else. --AnonyMan 01:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
You say that Fran is less relevant to the game than Vaan? The only relevant thing Vaan has is his dead brother Reks. Vaan story is completely dry: "I want to be a Sky Pirate and my Brother is dead, I hate Archadia". BH states it that Fran has to deal with society, plus has a unique relationship with the leading man, whose significance to FFXII is not overrated. Balthier has a story: "A freaking sky pirate actually taking the fight against an army". He steals the show from Ashe, who I thought would have a more central role, and he steals the show from Basch. Balthier is far from overrated. Also let us not forget that Fran is the source of wisdom in the group, she know the story behind everything. The 7th Chaos Esper ends his tantrum. --ChaosEsperVII
You misunderstand me. I never said anything about Fran's(or Balthier's) relvance to the story. Though she is just Balthier's sidekick like Penelo is Vaan's, and you're overestimating, I think she's among the half of characters who didn't matter as much in the general plot. I'm saying she wasn't very interesting personlity-wise and I never found Balthier to be that captivating, I don't think he stole the show and is just as interesting as Basch or Ashe(should have I hate her). I know Vaan's story "dries" up when Basch shows up though he does give Ashe(who is undoubtedly more important than he is)some moral direction. He also more or less got over his brother's murder around that time too, which is cool havinging it kept inside and swell up and alter his persoanlity. --AnonyMan 13:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Even so, Fran is necessary to the game because she adds "flavor". What I mean by that is that she enriches the FFXII world. She shows us what it's like to feel like both outcast and outsider to two different worlds: Hume and Viera. She shows us Viera familial relationship. She reveals to us her knowledge of Mist, Espers, and the history of Ivalice, which I think is quite substantial to the games plot. Also, because she may seem like Balthier's Chewbacca does not make her less important to the story. In fact, FFXII is alot like the original Star Wars trilogy, except told through the eyes of Han Solo. Fran may not contribute too much to the plot, but she brings alot to the entire game and its world as a whole. In summary, The 7th Chaos Esper says, "Fran matters." --ChaosEsperVII 12:11, 8 June 2008
I'm not arguing any validitiy to Fran's significane and role(which isn't all that fleshed out). She's an old walking encyclopedia, I know, only thing I'm saying is she is still rather lacking personality. Just Being enlightened doesn't make one either. Basch doesn't talk much either but he's not as dull. Which Final Fantasy XII were you playing? It's not told through the "Han", that's why Vaan's there it's told through his eyes, hence the he's Main perspective character. Don't let's Balthier's ego get to you, it funny though. --AnonyMan 16:54, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
The game may be told by Vaan's perspective but Balthier wields the reins. Vaan's just a backseat charlie. It's not that Balthier's ego gets to me, he has the right to say he's the leading man, because he does keep the story moving. Back to Fran, you can't say much about her personality because that's who she is. You can't just say they should have made her personality better because then you change her character. She's not there to be the star, that's Balthier's role (and he'll let you know that every chance he gets), she's there to offer insight and wisdom and to be hot. The 7th Chaos Esper decrees you a mighty opponent indeed. --ChaosEsperVII 15:42, 8 June 2008
Exactly, Vaan's a "Main" yet backseat character, he has no real Big Impact on the story but it's his point of view, that's how they wanted it. Fran's biggest angle is being "mysetrious", you can be mysterious and show some emotion I don't think she'd be any different since most of her lines were divulging information of something important. Just because you're not as big a mouth as your partner doesn't mean you barely have to show you exist, look at Penelo, she DFINEITELY doesn't do much, but she stands out at least even being Vaan's "partner". It's questionable about the "hot" thing viera look more wierd than anything, IMO. The AnonyMan does repesct you. --AnonyMan 20:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I laughed at one User's comment about Fran being the only Non-human Main like it's a big deal. FFIX's cast barely has any humans in it and is cooler most other games. And it's hard to call those you might consider "human". Then that just may be because of the whismical deisgn of the game.AnonyMan 23:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


Anon Voter #9 for Fran - No she doesn't, I can see the end of her legs quite clearly. You should look harder. Drake Clawfang 22:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with alot of what Chaos is saying except for one thing: i'd say what steals the show in ffxii are the relationships between balthier and his dad, and basch and gabranth. maybe i need to read a little closer but nobody ever seems to mention the relationship that basch had with his brother. basch is kinda to me what vaan is to anonyman (as fucking stupid as that is). id say hes considered an outcast even more so than fran because the fact that everyone thought he killed the king and took it so far that they wanted him dead. im gonna go out on a limb and say that the story should have been told through his eyes, as they originally planned it, or balthiers eyes as a close second. either perspective would have easily outperformed vaan. square's biggest mistake in that game was making vaan the main perspective. vaan should've just been somebody they came across that decides to follow them because he wants to be a sky pirate. thats my two cents. Etch 13:36, 8 June 2008

I agree with you there, although I do like the idea of being the Main character and not be all the focus. They should have stuck with their original decision to make Basch the Main character instead of shoehorn Vaan in to appease certain demographics. Basch is pretty cool it would have worked. As long as he's still part of the cast, would have been fine. --AnonyMan 17:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Etch. I forgot about Basch and his brother. It is a main driving point in the story. Also, Balthier and his pops does come later but it is important. The 7th Chaos Esper appreciates your reasoning. I like Square Enix usage of Vaan as a main character but not the focus, however, I dislike Vaan as a character. They should have used Shia LaBeouf. The 7th Chaos Esper laughs at his own jests.ChaosEsperVII 20:00, 8 June 2008

Yumiko:I like them both so im not going to vote. Anyways I got the english version of XII finally and I just want to say "omg whats wrong with Balthier's voice" Its like so thick. I personally like his japanese seiyu better.

I agree with BlueHighwind (way back up top) I looked through all of the old 'fights' and most had FF IX characters. though i think the problem is most (like me) stsrted playing Final Fantasy with FFVII so as a result we dont know much about the past games. Plus there IS a reason Fran walks around with skimpy armour and heels. Its all for the guys. Oh well!-Saraija Merinas 15:55 6-9-08

This is probably the part in which I incur the wrath of everyone, but I am glad that Vaan was the main character. Before you begin lobbing hand grenades and torches, hear me out. Rabanastre is a huge city, comprised mostly of two socio-economic classes, the wealthy citizens and the poor low-towners. Vaan is nothing more than a pathetic street urchin with illusions of grandeur. He wants to be a sky pirate, but will never achieve his dream. He is poor and ignorant and does not have the knowledge to be able to make something of himself. In comes Balthier (my favorite character) and the rest of the crew. Do they need him? Absolutely not. They all have their own agendas, their own sense of worth and importance to the story. The ties that connect each of them together are very delicate. There were many times while playing the game where I thought it almost unbelievable that this group of characters banded together. Granted, they come in pairs, (Balthier/Fran, Ashe/Basch, Vaan/Penelo) but to me, each couple could just separate from the rest at any time. What makes Vaan important is he is a nobody, but for some reason, is allowed to tag along with the rest of the group despite his ridiculous blunders (remember when he inquired Fran about her age?), they teach him, indirectly of course, how to manage himself in the world. Like many people from low socio-economic backgrounds, he doesn't know how to act in different situations. (Think of the person at a fine dining restaurant who eats with their hands and doesn't know which fork to use) Ultimately, as they teach Vaan about the world, they teach us, the player, about their universe and it may be this ignorance that keeps the delicate tie from snapping.Also, if the main character were anyone but Vaan, it would be ridiculous that we didn't know their complete histories. If, for the sake of argument, we played as Basch, we must know from the beginning that it was actually his brother that killed the king. If we were not privy to this information, then I would feel personally let down and perhaps cheated. You can't see the world through the eyes of a character without being informed of major life incidents. On the same chord, if Zidane knew that he was the Angel of Death, he would be an unsuitable main character. It is due to the fact that he has no recollection, that he is able to function as our number one. And finally, sometimes it is necessary to have a main character that is ignorant, so that the lessons the other characters have to offer are more meaningful. If Vaan were more knowledgeable, there would be no point to teach him the ways of the world.Lastly, every character is given personality. One does not need to be loud and boisterous to be considered as having one. So yes, Fran does have a personality and a very strong one at that. She has lived long enough to know not to shove it in people's faces. Also, it is not the Viera way.--High Summoner 00:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Uh... No. Vaan still sucks. Nobody even bothered to talk to him throughout the game (he seemed to stick in the background most of time, so how do you play "through his eyes"?). Though I do want a prize for actually reading that massive brick of text. I'm sure I'll be the only one. --BlueHighwind 00:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Consider the prize a boost to your reading comprehension skills. BTW, you play through his eyes because you are not privy to the backgrounds of any of the other characters at the game's onset. You find out information as Vaan does. --High Summoner 01:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Vaan couldn't even understand what was going on. He was too much of an insignifigant little flee for that. Also, I learned tons more than Vaan did. Like for example, there are all those scenes in Archadia where Vaan is not present. I learned so much about Vayne and how he came to power. Vaan was not there. Its a third-person view, not a first person. Thank God too, because that would have ruined FFXII. --BlueHighwind 01:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Touche. I see your point, but it is not third person alone. Remember Vaan's little vignettes of opinion and the like. My point that I'd like to reiterate is that mostly, you learn as Vaan should. He may not necessarily indicate that he's picked up on the lessons of the masters, but that is mostly due to the fact that he does not possess valued cultural capital. He is a street urchin after all. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm actually not that fond of Vaan, but I am not foolish enough to state that he is unnecessary. Vaan is pretty stupid, but the game is making a statement about the poor or lower class members of society. Actually, Vaan really has no business traveling with the likes of Balthier. Yet, despite this, he does. And if Balthier can allow it, so can I.--High Summoner 01:31, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I consider it to be a Contrivance of the Plot. Much like how Cloud and co. kept Cait Sith around in FFVII whne there was no good reason to. --BlueHighwind 01:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Or how Cloud spent an entire disk traveling around sleeping beside two hot chicks instead of sleeping with them like I would have tried to do... Drake Clawfang 01:40, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Well that quote sounds familiar. Oh, I get it! Its from my Walkthrough: Final Fantasy VII/BlueHighwind/Part 7: "Now we know why we must follow Sephiroth all across the world. But even with the destruction of your hometown and all, Cloud seriously what's up with you? If I were in your shoes I be trying snag Tifa and Aeris in a 3-way (now there's an image), instead of chasing after Sephiroth. I guess we just have different priorities." --BlueHighwind 01:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
@Good Drake and Blue: ...Says the guys who have yet to do so with any girl. --ChiefKakashi 02:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
ah, the truculence of youth. My point, again, is that the game is making a commentary of both a political and socio-economic nature. Vaan is about as low class as you can get. Ashe, being a queen (though not exactly on the throne) is at the opposite end of the spectrum. Everyone else falls somewhere in between. Vaan is necessary to develop and explore the dynamic between social classes.--High Summoner 02:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
There are better characters who could have done so. Perhaps somebody with something to say about the difference of Social Classes. Vaan seemed to take it all in stride (he's is an idiot). Or maybe somebody who could have pointed out how Dalmasca seems to be much better off under Imperial Rule. Didn't Penelo's family die in a plague? Yeah, the old King was a crackercack ruler. --BlueHighwind 12:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, things that couldn't be dicier... If you're walking down the street and you see a bum, or a homeless person, you usually don't think, "hey, under all that sludge, he must be a great person!" I think the point, in Vaan's creation, was to portray the lower class as people who would not be well received, someone who people wouldn't like. So, if we get rid of Vaan, he must be replaced with someone equally as ignorant and insignificant. Oh, and all this social class stuff has to be "read between the lines" because it is a video game, after all.--High Summoner 19:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with HighSummoner about Vaan. I personally think he's not the best main character, but main character archtypes needs a bit of a change. You may prefer the typical noble and heroic stereotypes but if you see the same thing in every game it will get boring. I notice most of you hates the main protagonists, not only Vaan because he's not contributing much, but also Squall and Cloud who you guys call 'emo'. Even if I don't favour them, it is nice to see a depressed hero for a change. Back to Vaan, he can quit from the adventure anytime but he probably tags along as Balthier's apprentice. I personally wish to see more development between them (like Balthier teaching Vaan how to fly etc. I can only see that as 'behind the scenes' scene in fanfics). Vaan is an observer; he doesn't get involve in the important characters political discussion - yet he is watching from the sides to see how higher-ups handle things, which we may not be able to see. One more thing, i despise seeing you guys laugh at each other because their favourite character. So what? if another person likes a boring character, so be it.--VN

When you pit characters from two of the most despicable games in the series, nobody wins. Chocotard 00:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

How are FFIX and FFXII the most despicable games in the series? Niether one of those are FFVIII. Please, do explain. --BlueHighwind 01:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Wow. What's so wrong with VIII(or IX and XII for that matter)? It's not bad, it's defeinitely a good game for the series. It's got a few flaws but even the best FF games have them. I love FFIX to death, but I know it's not without flaws. --AnonyMan 02:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
See my user page for an elucidation of my disgust. Chocotard 22:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


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