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Contents

Week 130: Steiner v. Wakka[edit source]

AmanoSteiner.jpg
DNC Versus.png
FFX Wakka Art.png
WINNER!
Steiner
56½ to 21½
Both of these guys have a good heart... but they both come across as a bit hapless.
AmanoSteiner.jpg

Votes for Steiner[edit source]

  1. Steiner easy. He's from the better game and more importantly the better character, he's also unintentionally hilarious. Wakka is one of the cooler FFX character, however. AnonyMan 05:08, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  2. Faethinte audio : Religious zealots with stupid weapons ftfl.
  3. I see this guy better.Kuzlalala Squee! 09:39, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  4. Whoever voted for Wakka should perish. Kyrel 11:42, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  5. Steiner was pretty beastly with his sword arts, rare super-strength trance, and his magic sword abilities with Vivi. Sure, his best weapon required some major hacks/elite skills (Excalibur II *glare*), but he was an easy to utilize character. Wakka, on the other hand, seemed less important. Tidus eventually became fast enough to hit the ranged enemies, and Wakka's strength and speed always seemed mid-of-the-road. Plus, his best overdrive abilities come from far more blitzball playing than I could stomach. ClixPsi
  6. I love Ol' Rusty! This guy made FFIX a hilarious game, which is one of the reasons why I love it so much. Violetmage♥ 13:23, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  7. I hate both, but since Rusty is from IX, there's no other choice... SquallisbetterthanCloud 14:01, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  8. Steiner is my favorite character from my favorite game! Umbrella Officer
  9. i never played IX, i just hate wakka. dunno why, i just always got irritable every time his continued existence was proven.Akbaroth 15:53, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  10. I vote for good old Rusty! Rusty and Vivi were the ultimate duo Bruntie2 16:45, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  11. Wakka sucks!--Ltfabretti Dragoon 17:02, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  12. Steiner has his own sound effect when ever he runs or jumps, carries a meaty big ass sword around with him and can kill something sooner than look at it. Wakka is a bigoted ball thrower. Hamfruitcake 09 17:35, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  13. It's Rusty! How can I not vote for him, even if he is a loud-mouthed idiot?--StragusLore 17:39, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  14. 'Cause Blitzball really annoys me, ya? The.DreadnoughT 20:21, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  15. Wow... just wow... we really ARE running out of fights, aren't we? Wakka is made of fail, and Steiner gets to bone with Beatrix, so there.Winged Lion 20:49, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  16. BlueHighwind : Because one sucks, and one is awesome. Everybody to my right is a moron.
  17. Even though I like both characters, Steiner just edges it out for me. He had a good story and he was just a better character overall. Plus he has a cool nickname. Rusty. Anyway, I vote Steiner. This is a good fight. TheBlueDragoon 21:44, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  18. Mystic Knight. Done. Pikmin Master 21:51, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  19. Masamune: HAHAHAHAHA! Too FUNNY!
  20. Steiner was goofy. Wakka was just annoying as Hell. JohnnyC
  21. I am a huge fan of Wakka, but Steiner has more power. SuperGuyverUSA 7:49, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  22. Personality wise, both are very similar, with Steiner blindly following Brahne and Wakka blindly following Yevon (which is why I suggested this fight), but Steiner has more comic relief, and that is where my vote lies. Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 00:03, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  23. Steiner >>>> Wakka. And Beatrix's heart belongs to him :3 Karu
  24. This guy actually has the sense to fight with a sword instead of a blitzball. He is definatly the better character.- Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png-
  25. Clank clank clank. —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|01:33, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  26. Overly religious, bigoted zealot with a ball for a weapon or a fighter with a name I can stand? Mmmm... Bangaa Red Mage 01:54, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  27. Sure, Steiner's clueless, but, if anything, you can at least say he was dedicated to his sworn duty. -- File:FFIII-nes-sage.gif Saethori (T / C) - 03:19, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  28. Steiner. Extremely useful throughout the game, and also, DOOMSDAY SWORD... I dunno, he's also much funnier. -Nokareon
  29. Cloudiroth Love Steiner, hate Wakka. Easy one.
  30. Rusty is one of the best characters in IX, not only because he's a heavy hitter, but also because, without him, there would be only half as many funny moments in the game. Silver Dragon XXVIII 19:52, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  31. Are you KIDDING ME!?! Steiner has so much on Wakka! He's the strongest (generally speaking) character in FFIX and has such a funny, yet noble and admirable character. Wakka is kinda like... a lesser version of that. Yzz 21:06, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  32. Leogon255 23:46, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  33. Princess! Princess! Princess! 8bit 00:02, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  34. Either Wakka, the stupud racist, or Steiner, the hopless knight. At least Steiner has good taste in women.--Xepscern 01:56, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  35. Steiner= Love Boogum 02:49, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  36. We all love Rusty. --wee187 04:31, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  37. FF9 FTW!!!!!!!!! NeoExdeath 07:19, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  38. -SHOCK! -ロル Lol Cakes オケス 11:16, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  39. That concept art of Steiner by Yoshitaka Amano is the best concept art hes done for a Final Fantasy. That being said, Steiner is more unique than people think considering his kind of story has only been explored by another Final Fantasy character once (Basch). I think Steiner's one of the best characters in the game, considering he breaks the traditional mold of the loyal knight eventually and develops his own reasons for serving Alexandria. Also, Steiner can wield the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX and one of the most powerful weapons in all of Final Fantasy. Adelbert
  40. Okay, first off, I hate these two evenly. the onlt reason I'm voting for Steiner is because he's a knight. what the fuck is Wakka? A Sport-class? Derum
  41. Steiner is a knight with the silly one-mindedness that is the ultimate comedic releif character. I'm surprised Wakka's scoring as well as he is. Legend of Fantasy 19:46, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  42. Sunpanda2012
  43. Really easy to decide, Rusty is just awesome.- Saraija Merinas
  44. Two words: Pickle Fetish. Bwahaha! -Zidane19
  45. I really like both characters, but Steiner just wins out. Avieure 03:54, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  46. Zenigata! Steiner is a good character, I like him.Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 15:19, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  47. I vote Steiner. At least he has a real weapon. Wakka's ball will hardly even hurt Steiner. Dragoon Knight
  48. Clink, Clink. I vote for Sir Rusts-A-Lot go Stiener!! Uoper 12 Shinryu-ffv.gif 22:36, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  49. Steiner is dumb and much weaker than Wakka, but Wakka is dumb AND racist AND bigot.
  50. Though I didn't use him much (his best abilities were entirely based on Vivi's presence in your party), I suppose I like the character better. Wakka was useful for a little while until your characters achieved a higher accuracy score. And I felt Wakka's character was a bit one-dimensional. CodeNameRedXIII 14:34, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
  51. Because people who are oblivious to the truth when its staring them in the face annoy me. Although Wakka is otherwise a truly awesome character. Plus, some of the funniest scenes in the game revolve around steiner. Bluesilver 14:06, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
  52. Steiner, hands-down! He'll cut that ball of Wakka's to shreds, and then go after his neck. VoidCommanderExdeath 22:05, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
  53. I did like the goofy islander too, but the hapless knight takes it. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Gotta go with Rusty on this one. Despite his serious and stoic nature, he is easily one of the most humerous things about Final Fantasy IX. Besides, he has a good heart and is very honorable and noble. You've got to admire that. Not only that, but he gets Beatrix. Come on, just being able to land her as a girlfriend alone is enough to make good ol' Rusty superior. 173.63.176.221
  2. FFIX is my fav and Steiner has those clanking noises you just can't beat ;P -maikyuu173.63.176.221
  3. Wakka is from a better game, but Steiner is just better, for obvious reasons. Steiner wears armour, Wakka wears an ugly shirt. Steiner has a sword, Wakka has a beachball. Steiner worships Vivi, Wakka worships Yu Yevon (who just turns out to be the game's main villan.)-173.35.180.242 21:29, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  4. Steiner is one of the funniest characters in any final fantasy game. 198.7.245.93 16:52, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  5. Rusty FTW213.13.227.118 17:57, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
  6. Rusty--189.18.227.43 12:40, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
  7. Steiner was able to get Beatrix.All Wakka got was an old hag who used dolls as weapons.Steiner wins. 76.126.68.142

Votes for Wakka[edit source]

  1. Gamer2127 05:29, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  2. This vote stems from my inexplicable hatred of Steiner. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:51, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  3. He's sort of a minor character in X, yet he's still better than a lot of major characters throughout the series.Neo Bahamut 06:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC
  4. Wakka is a way cooler name, though steiner isn't half bad, - I could say Wakka all day! Flaremmm
  5. Though I never see him again in KH, plus he married Lulu! - Silver Mage Omega FF5.png 11:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  6. I like X more than IX. Besides, Wakka shut up for a bit, Rusty never did. TomServo101 11:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  7. Steiner was kinda annoying(well very annoying) and besides Wakka is the best at killing aerial foes. Bjarnster 14:23 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  8. Rinoa leonheart 16:42, September 1, 2009 (UTC) O YA
  9. mmm steiner is too goofy... i prefer wakka 'cause he's also a blitzball player!Gilgamesh 18:56, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  10. Soren 4ever 17:31, September 1, 2009 (UTC)This is a tough choice, both are from great games and are good characters; but I loved Wakka from the first time I saw him, whereas I had to grow to like Steiner.
  11. Sure, he's a racist douchebag, but for combat, he's pretty damn good. I gave one of his weapons stonestrike, poisonstrike, and darkstrike, which, while not equaling "Living Chainsaw" certainly made things easier to deal with. Now if I can just give him Quick Hit Exdeath64 18:59, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
  12. Not just another character wielding a sword BritPenance 11:46, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  13. Steiner was a clichéd knight, while Wakka was an overzealous athlete. I go for originality. SamSandy 18:07, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  14. Yes he has a ball as a weapon but its very useful if used rite Mr_Darkside 20:50, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
  15. him and tee-dus are gonna do a little explorin today Ningacom 20:26, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
  16. Go Wakka... TKOTL
  17. Wakka--DarkTriforce 22:32, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
  18. Wakka Wakka Wakka WAKKA! Kefka44
  19. Wakka ya! Wakka didn't fail Lady Summoner as many times as ol' rusty did Garnet. He held his chocobos, ya? Rusty was a sticker. FinalAnnihilator 23:43, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
  20. I don't think that there's any way we're going to win this, but Wakka is the best! He just happened to awesome, and, though he was racist, he did pretty damn well in a fight. Plus he married Lulu!! Go Wakka!!!! Kami strife 13:25, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
  21. This is a really hard decision for me, because I didn't really like either character. I definately liked Final Fantasy IX more than Final Fantasy X, but I think I like Wakka better than Steiner because he is more of a bro. Both are definately stronger characters in their games, but I think that Wakka would win in a fight because I think of Steiner as being pretty clumsy and slow. Peanutthephantom 9:49, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. 121.223.138.79 09:02, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

I'm back. And I missed 2 good fights. Albeit, the whole Sin vs. Vegnagun thing was depressingly one-sided. In any case, I have no clue who Steiner is, but I doubt he developes as much as Wakka.Neo Bahamut 06:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Yay! My suggestion got honoured! Now, it's just the dilemma of who to vote for... Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 11:31, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

This fight is pointless... btw, I though BH was long gone?? Am I having an illusion?Winged Lion 20:58, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Unless the Patriots are playing some cruel trick on us, no. The.DreadnoughT 22:45, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
I think he's stil around, he's just not up to much and is no longer properly working at the wiki. The Man In The Black Cape 23:22, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
I thought he left too. I remember him saying on the DNC page a few months back that he was leaving the Wiki. Its good that he's still around though. TheBlueDragoon 19:08, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Ouch! Another fight where I'll have to think. Good suggestion Jeppo. TheBlueDragoon 21:28, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

This is another landslide...much like Sin and Vegnagun...after reading Steiner's comments, I felt stupid voting for Wakka... --Silver Mage Omega FF5.png 10:09, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
What surprises me most is that this is a landslide. I never imagined it would be another landslide. Both are very good games, so it surprises me that Wakka is so hated.TheBlueDragoon 16:08, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure it has something to do with his accent, ya? JohnnyC
As well as that abomination, a lot of people seems to be dismissing him as racist. Now I'm not defending racism or eugenecism in any way shape or form, but that seems just a tad unfair seeing as Wakka grew up in a society that was practically homogenous, wherein he was completely indoctrinated by Yevon, which was the main Spiran establishment, so very few people would be prepared to speak up against it in any case, because they didn't know anything else. And besides, speaking out against or doubting Yevon in any way would have brought immediate and severe consequences, and not only that, but said person would be treated as a pariah by the entire community to boot (provided that they survived aforementioned consequences). Therefore, Wakka would have grown up trusting Yevon completely. The portrayal of Al Bhed as different to "normal" humans would not have helped either. As for the behaviour of the other characters, Tidus was a complete outsider, Yuna was 50% Al Bhed, Auron had long lost faith in Yevon, we never get to hear what Kimahri thinks (as far as I can remember), and Rikku is, of course, Al Bhed herself. Thus, they would have major reasons not to behave in a manner that would be considered normal to ordinary Spirans, which Wakka lacked. The only anomaly here is Lulu, but that might be just down to her character (she seems to question Yevon far more easily than anyone else) and her steadfast loyalty to Yuna. To summarise, Wakka acts this way because thats all he knows and was brought up to believe, an adequate analogy here being how someone born and bred in the Third Reich would respond to a Jew. And Wakka of course well and truly gets over this by the end of the game, so his ability to change so rapidly from his original position has to say something for him. The Man In The Black Cape 22:41, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
While the above text is completely true, that doesn't explain the soccer ball that turns people into stone. Faethinte audio 23:55, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
And a sword that summons meteors down from the sky makes so much more sense? -Nokareon
The iconographic and mythological differences between a sword and a soccer ball should be quite apparent. Yes, it does make much more sense. In its context of High Fantasy, a sword may be magical. Can you honestly say the same about a sports ball? Faethinte audio 04:02, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Jesus Almighty, I started a rant. But to add my points, I never hated Wakka. I just like Steiner better. And yeah, there are magical swords. Excalibur, although it was the scabbard that was magical. Anyway, a ball that can petrify doesn't make a lot of sense. TheBlueDragoon 04:36, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
No, it makes the same amount of sense. Swords and balls (while much less used) are both fantasy weapons. I have to give Wakka some points for originality here. He's not "typical knight, typical sword." - +DeadlySlashSword+ 11:44, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

If they wracked their brains a little, I'm pretty sure they could've come up with a better weapon for Wakka than a ball. Did I mention how satisfying it was to beat the guy to a pulp in Kingdom Hearts? JohnnyC

Aww the dopey character who had an affair with the fat, ugly, brainless queen is winning. Well, now we know what kind of women everyone here likes :>. BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 10:59, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, wait, what? Actually playing through IX reveals that Steiner and Beatrix fall in love with each other. I'm not sure Beatrix would appreciate being called fat and ugly ^^U 8bit 12:47, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Yes Steiner and Beatrix fall in love. But the fat queen he was referring to was Garnet's "mother" Queen Brahne. TheBlueDragoon 22:03, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Week 129: Sin v. Vegnagun[edit source]

10sin-a.jpg
DNC Versus.png
Vegnagun.jpg
WINNER!
Sin, clearly
At this size, you have to admit it does kind of resemble Godzilla versus Mothra, but no... its the big baddy from X and X-2.
10sin-a.jpg

Votes for Sin[edit source]

  1. Sin have something nostalgic, something sentimental and sad... its awesome
  2. Godjuro! Godjuro! *runs away* Leon5550 02:57, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  3. Sin is monster that wont die and keep coming back to live.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 02:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  4. I liked the concept of Sin. Vegnagun is just a little too silly. Avieure 03:42, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  5. Well Auron fought Sin not Vegnagun. So Sin it is. hee hee SINNER. Theentertainer
  6. ScatheMote 13:00, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  7. Duh Sin is gonna win--DarkTriforce 15:48, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  8. A far more fascinating enemy, in my opinion Boogum 16:23, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  9. Voting for the one from the least sucky game, not to mention, it's Jecht. Yuki-Shiki 16:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  10. Sin is Jecht... 'nuff said. Crims0nf0rtune 10:26, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  11. I agree, Sin is a much more interesting concept. SamSandy 17:28, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  12. FF74EVA! 19:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  13. Sin killed more! Mr_Darkside 21:04, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  14. Voting for Vegnagun is like voting for a mobile game, its absolutely stupid, he was an absolutely pathetic boss.- Saraija Merinas
  15. Sin has 1 move that can end the game in one turn. Vegnagun does not. My Vote goes to Sin! User:CaptainKhaos 18:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  16. Leogon255 22:21, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  17. Mr. Rojo: I like a lot Sin's concept and design. 23:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  18. It took me forever to come up with my decision, but Sin wins my vote for a few reasons. Overall, his design and concept is much cooler than Vegnagun. He was a force to be reckoned with. He destroyed entire towns with his Giga-Gravitron attack. He was just a better creation. Not to mention the fact that the inside of the beast is a dungeon all in itself. I think I said enough, but also, Sin is actually Jecht. How much cooler can it get. Not to mention to finally get to get rid of Seymour permanently inside of Sin! TheBlueDragoon 23:55, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  19. Sin=Jecht and sin is just awsome Sunpanda2012
  20. Sin wasn't involved in a half-baked, emotionally scarring plot. Plus, were they able to use Vegnagun to defeat Sin in the first place? I didn't think so. JohnnyC
  21. Sin has the better story. It's also practically unkillable, which is a plus. -Nokareon
  22. sin is the best plus he has more hp.--a17280fdec998b452275c942c7dfe2cb 03:36, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  23. Even though Vegnagun can destroy all of Spira, Sin is a giant whale. Whales are fucking awesome. Violetmage♥ 04:40, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  24. . X kicks X-2 ass, therefore sin should win. Yuffie2211
  25. Sin is just...a powerful word to have as a name. Plus he'd beat the crap out of Vegnagun in a smackdown. Bangaa Red Mage 10:05, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  26. Vegnagun was a pointless plot device (a bit like geostigma but I won't go into that!) But Sin was the plot. And anyway X can kick X-2s ass any day!! FinalFantasyAerith
  27. Sin, because he was recognized as the villain way before the Vegnagun was. MezzoEmrys 14:29, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  28. Of course. Jecht was better than Shuyin, Shuyin reminded me more of Tidus. Vincent Portrait.jpgFinalfreakfantasyDeathPenalty.png15:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  29. Blykus 18:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  30. Sin may not have been awesome (I can't remember), but FFX was. A million times better than X-2, so. Ol' Jecht gets my vote. xD -wtdrmfrthwbzn
  31. Sin is more original--Ltfabretti Dragoon 20:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  32. Vegnagun felt like a last minute final boss as compared to Sin that fits well into the story. BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 21:11, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  33. I may not know much about Vegnagun, but my vote is on Sin because of his great power. SuperGuyverUSA 12:10 22 August 2009 (UTC)
  34. Vegnagun was in X-2? So It's obvious, that Sin is better...SquallisbetterthanCloud 10:50, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
  35. Rikku single-handedly beat Vegnagun at a low level... I like my bosses to be a little more challenging --Roxasxiii 14:06, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
  36. Final Fantasy X > Final Fantasy X-2; original > spinoff; Godzilla > Mothra - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png-
  37. Sin is FAR more intimidating of a boss. Lets not forget that he was a constant threat throughout the entirety of the game. And yet, even though he's intimidating, he still manages to be something resembling a massive stuffed animal (LOOK AT THAT FACE!!!! IT'S ADORABLE!!!!) Hydronisa
  38. Clearly Sin. FinalAnnihilator 00:16, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
  39. did everyone see sin pulling the moon with giga graviton... fight over
  40. wee187 04:12, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
  41. Sin is God! derum
  42. Whale+Flight+Gravity spells= Space Whale. And not those crappy ones from Marvel Comics. Exdeath64 19:12, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
  43. We've had this one before haven't we? In any case, I'll go with Sin. I just feel there was more to him than we saw. TomServo101 20:00, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
  44. Sin is by far a more formidable foe plus it actually killed plenty of people. Giga Gravitation? Immense! Hamfruitcake 09 21:14, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
  45. Sin would blast Vegnagun to pieces before Vegnagun could even Begin to charge up its laser Destriker73 10:51, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
  46. Sin is ALIVEE Vegnagun is a robot Machina, Organic beats Machina everytime! PabloPicaso 11:28, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
  47. sin is simply cool, vegnagun is so weak :S Gilgamesh 20:35, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
  48. Seriously? This is a contest? The two lamest bosses in FF history... awesome. I vote for SIN, purely because Vegnagun didn't really do anything. his capability was merely rumored, never demonstrated. SIN actually destroyed entire cities.
  49. Sin was a source of tension and seemed as a scourge that Spira would have to fight for the rest of the time. On an other hand, he is simply better than Vegnagun! Ezupio
  50. CodeNameRedXIII 19:22, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
  51. Sin was a heck of a lot harder to beat. (Well, I mean Jecht, not Sin, but you get the point. They're pretty much the same, anyway.) Vegnagun went down in about five moves when I fought him, and I hadn't even made an attempt at over-training. Kami strife 01:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
  52. Sin is better and comes from a much better game. KaiserPaladin 07:26, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
  53. Vampyro entertaiment 19:04, 25 August 2009 (UTC) i prefer a huge fusion of a whale and a final dungeon over the fusion of a fly and a organ
  54. Maverick Riot 11:06, 26 August 2009 (UTC): I though it looked like Mothra too lol. I'm voting Sin, and can so fairly, being the only person in the world who didn't hate X-2. Vegnagun probably was awesome, but never got used fully. Sin on the other hand did a lot more damage. I also loved the battles you had with Sin whilst on the Airship, they were epic. To fight Vegnagun, you basically climbed to the top and went a little crazy.
  55. Although I think parts of Vegnagun looked cooler, it didn't really present much of a challenge in the actual fight. Sin had a more consistent presence throughout the story of FFX and was a stronger opponent in battle. Ammyissun 16:27, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
  56. Sin is just all around cooler. And the only way people could think of beating it involved in it just coming back again from the fact that you beat it. MisfitAirship
  57. Sin Gotta be Sin, he was hard enough on his own, and then we went inside and there's something else that could beat vegnagun as well. --CLOUD 18:40, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
  58. sin all the way!!! #Snowii 12:08, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
  59. Sin, definitely. For one thing, as Vegnagun is Machina, it'll probably end up similarly to Operation Mi'Hen. And let's not forget the Sin Cycle! VoidCommanderExdeath 19:47, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
  60. Sin For The Win !!!Bjarnster 00:05, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
  61. Do I even hafta say anythang? Ya got 60 other reasons why.CLARKMASTER! 22:39, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
  62. Sin is quite possibly the most epic monster ever. Judge Balthier 16:12, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Sin easily wins this, hands down
  2. Sin is the ultimate giant blob monster and can beat anything.
  3. Sin is wicked cool! He could beat anything!
  4. Sin is potentially more dangerous and destructive. 206.248.110.71 22:25, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  5. Sin should win because Vegnagun was suppose to defeat sin, but didn't.
  6. Sin was just cooler. 192.168.1.3 02:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
  7. This is a hard decision for me, as Vegnagun was pretty threatening in concept, the machina had a dangerous and trully evil feel to it the first time I played X-2. However, we already saw what happened when Spira's people attempted to battle Sin with another Machina, powerful like Vegnagun or not. Sin was both appalling, threatening, and evil and caused so much destruction over and over. And Sin was able to be reborn even if you defeated it. Vegnagun couldn't. Plus Sin was Jecht. I vote Sin.
  8. Sin ftw. Vegnagun cowered in fear and ran away whenever it felt threatened. And the official strategy guide reccomended to be around ATLEAST lvl 60 to beat Vegnagun, i was lvl 39 and had no problem beating him or Shuyin. Sin however, gave me quite a few but whoopins.
  9. Sin's much better,partly because Sin always came back before Tidus and the gang destroyed it for good.
  10. Never wanted to play X-2, X is a much better game in every way. 121.223.138.79 07:15, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
  11. Who'd vote for that wierd machine/dragon/whatever thing?? Sin is way cooler
  12. Sin for the win... (it even rhymes xD)

81.193.22.203 17:20, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

  1. I vote for the coolest armor in FF history(Sin was Yu Yevon's armor) 189.32.113.202

Votes for Vegnagun[edit source]

  1. I don't really like Vegnagun. He was pretty easy, and Sin looked cooler. --Gamer2127 03:04, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  2. It's a machina. (actually, very many of them.) Machina are mechanical weapons. Therefore it goes in the same category as such legendary devices as Arsenal Gear, the Shagohod, and CABAL's Core Defender. It possesses remarkable similarity to the Arsenal Gear AI, too. Easy decision, no? The.DreadnoughT 03:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  3. A tough decision, but Vegnagun just edges it for me, seeing as its a super-powerful war-mech that Yevon was too shit-scared of to use even to destroy the near-immortal whale-dragon demon thing that was terrorising their world, killing thousands of people and making life a misery in case something went wrong and it destroyed all remnants of civilisation. Besides, the Sin-immortality thing would be moot in this scenario, since Yu Yevon, as I understand it, needs to bond with a High Summoner's Final Aeon in order to create a new Sin, and the use of Vegnagun would entirely circumvent this. I don't know why I'm bothering though, Sin'll undoubtedly win. Rhyme not intentional.The Man In The Black Cape 15:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  4. Yeah, Vegnagun was meant to be the ultimate entity in Spira. Sadly, it's pathetically weak in battle. Still, concept wise, it's a beast you don't want to mess with. Oh, and it's operated by a keyboard. Awesome. ClixPsi
  5. Vegnagun sounds funny Bruntie2 18:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  6. It has butterfly wings... BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 01:04, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  7. Sins downfall is the fact that he is basically Yu Yevon who i hate so much! also Vegnagun looks better NeoExdeath 08:34, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  8. I actually thought that Vegnagun was pretty kick ass. I love machina :3 Yzz 11:51, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  9. Vegnagun was so powerful that it was too dangerous to use against Sin, even though it could have killed both it and Yu Yevon in seconds. Way more powerful. Gotta be the machina. YamiNoBahamut 18:04, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  10. I don't know why, but I like Vegnagun more than Sin. Final Cannon * Talk 17:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
  11. Rinoa leonheart 20:25, 21 August 2009 (UTC)GO VEGNAGUN O YA
  12. I just don't like sin and this random mechanical bug sounds better Flaremmm
  13. Gravity Whale vs Big Bug Machina? I find it a bit difficult to choose one, but I think I'll go for the artificially intelligent piano-operated BIG BUG MACHINA!!!!! even though that kinda means I'm supporting Bevelle over Zanarkand, and when I think of it that way I almost want to change my vote... -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 12:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
  14. Vegnagun was a machina designed to destroy Sin, and the fact it's the final boss of FFX's sequel, automatically makes it stronger. Vegnagun would win. Examples of their power, Sin can destroy towns... Vegnagun can destroy worlds.No78
  15. After thinking on it I decided that Sin is really just the personification of random destrucion. Vegnagun on the other hand had focus (given a few minor tweaks to it's rampant fear), and would technically be the most dangerous. Rivenous 23:43, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Well, this fight was over before it began it seems. I wonder what the next fight will be? TheBlueDragoon 02:50, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I vote neither. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 03:31, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I vote for them both 8D Faethinte audio 03:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Why is the first vote for Vegnagun talking about how Sin is better?--DarkTriforce 15:48, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure why, but we had a lot of that last week. TheBlueDragoon 23:52, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I can't vote for either of these fairly, I've never owned a PS2. T_T -- File:FFIII-nes-sage.gif Saethori (T / C) - 18:35, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Ouch! Tough choice time! I'll have to think on this one. TheBlueDragoon 21:24, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

God, two of the most pathetic bosses in Final Fantasy. A flying Whale or a robot with wings. Cant we have a good match?Cammy G 08:39, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Can't we stop complaining? The.DreadnoughT 15:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
This is good match up! Its not that bad really. Its a pure FFX fight. And besides, if you complain, you don't have to vote. So take your complaints elsewhere please. If you have a problem, take it up with Tactic Angel. TheBlueDragoon 22:30, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
I think all we do on here is complain about the fights, honestly would everone stop acting like a whiney teenage girl , grow a pair of balls and just vote for who they like better or none at all! - Saraija Merinas
Thats pretty much what I said, in nicer terms. This is a damn good fight. I mean come on, it Sin! XD TheBlueDragoon 01:52, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Not that I'm condoning complaints like that, but why does everyone have such a problem with them? People have voted for Sin because they didn't like X-2, surely that's a complaint about X-2. Until there is a rule that states all comments on the DNC have to be of a jovial and lighthearted nature, I don't see the issue with people expressing their displeasure for something! Rivenous 23:29, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't have a problem with it. People are free to complain all they want. We all have an opinion. Mine is that this is a good fight. Even if it is a landslide. TheBlueDragoon 02:00, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Um, the flying whale can destroy cities with it's mind.--DarkTriforce 21:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

So who fucked up the page layout? Right there at the top of the page, DO NOT ALTER THE FORMAT OF THIS PAGE. TheBlueDragoon 23:23, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

SO FIX IT --Gamer2127 19:41, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Not sure how to honestly. HTML has never been my kind of thing. TheBlueDragoon 02:25, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I liked Sin. Sin had substance and a meaning. Vegnagun was a pointless plot device like Geostigma in Advent Children. Not to mention the fact that X can kick X-2s ass any day!! FinalFantasyAerith 22:54, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Can we call this match early? It's obviously a landslide. Nokareon
I don't think Vegnagun had a chance to begin with Nokareon. I think we'd have to take it up with TacticAngel first though. TheBlueDragoon 02:00, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Week 128: Silence v. Darkness[edit source]

DNC Versus.png
WINNER!
I think I've illustrated why this hasn't been done before. No pictures. Anyway... status effects? I guess which is more punishing? Draw
47½ to 43

Votes for Speak No Evil[edit source]

  1. First vote! You can cure Darkness with magic, but if healer gets hit with Silence... Jeppo (Talk)
  2. I vote for a spell that especially effects the White Mages!--Cluna 06 23:33, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
  3. I tend to opt for the mage characters, and Silence is extremely frustrating. Yay for Echo Screens 8D 8bit 00:12, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  4. I hate Silence. Plus it seems to happen to me more often.--DarkTriforce 02:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  5. I guess I've found Silent more troubling and more useful (though status magic is rarely useful in Final Fantasy). ClixPsi
  6. Because silence can actually screw up my strategy on occasion. And it usually helps against enemy mages. TheBlueDragoon 02:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  7. A blind fighter can still hit, albeit less often. A silenced mage however is nigh well on useless, so silence is more effective overall in my opinion. Though status spell use is situational at best in most Final Fantasy games. Rivenous
  8. Silence is more pain in the ass then Darkness.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 03:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  9. Darkness has officially become a Joke status effect thanks to one Squall Leonheart. I've yet to see a Spell caster diesel enough enough to use magic even when afflicted with Slicene. AnonyMan
  10. Silence takes a much bigger toll on my mages, especially my healers. Plus, several attacks can still hit when a fighter is blinded. Silence is the more annoying status effect. 3155
  11. I've always found Silence more detrimental as a status effect that Darkness. With Darkness, you still have a chance of hitting, but with Silence in effect, you can't even restore health. Good thing that there's always items! :P SamSandy 08:59, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  12. Especially in Final Fantasy VIII the Silence status is more punishing, for it disables not just the Magic command, but also the commands GF and Draw, and these three are amongst my favourite command combos on the list! In addition, if Squall gets plagued by Darkness, he can still attack and he always hits, even though the trigger command's effect is removed during Darkness. So let there be Silence! (...) Dramirth
  13. Silence is better since it is more reliable than Darkness, mostly because it hits more often.(Also, read the top votes about it being more disastrous and dangerous) Darkness back then, was bugged for the most part. Also Silence, stops enemies from casting devastating magic. (Though Darkness, if it hits, plus Berserk can really be ...)--Silver Mage 09:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  14. Darkness is an inconvenience. Silence is party-life-threatening. --Saethori 09:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  15. Silence can be deadly if it hits your healer. Terra_Homing 13:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  16. Darkness just makes it slightly less likely for your attacks to hit, whereas Silence completely prevents you from using magic. Therefore, Silence>Darkness. The Man In The Black Cape 15:40, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  17. O gawd, I damn hate silence @.@ it's making the magic user literally useless. - SilverSummonerTaLk 17:08, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  18. Far more annoying then being blinded. Exdeath64 19:30, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  19. Even if you the enemy is blinded, they can still sometimes land an attack on ya.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 19:40, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  20. Obviously. Bruntie2 20:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  21. A blinded melee character still can be useful, tanking, using skills with 100% hit... A silenced mage is near useless, and even a melee can become it too. In the other side, usually if you blind a enemy, it only affects to his common attacks and it skills still can impact you. If you silence a enemy, you're sure it cannot use any magic or magic skill. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 20:33, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  22. There have been battles when a healer has been silenced right when I needed them. It is the worst thing to happen. Darkness is just an annoyance. ChaosEsperVII
  23. Silence is harder to cure if it's on your whole team, because it can only be cured by items. And there is nothing worse than having your healers silenced and no having any of whatever they use to cure silence in the game it happens in. MezzoEmrys 21:30, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  24. It worked in VI, and is more annoying for those of us who use magic to cure things. Darkness can be dealt with fairly easily: Esuna. Except when someone's Silenced. The.DreadnoughT 22:29, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  25. Since magic is my saving grace in many boss battles, getting one of my mages hit with silence is always the worst. It takes too much time to cure with an echo screen! If a character has darkness, I just have them use magic or special abilities ;) Violetmage♥
  26. really painful when the silenced one is your support character.... OnionKnight23
  27. Silence means that you can definitely not cost magic. Darkness merely means that you may miss when you attack. Yzz 09:57, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
  28. ...CheeseNinja 11:41, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
  29. Pikmin Master: You can still attack blind.
  30. Silence always makes bigger damage to my party than Darkness... Especialy when I forget to buy enough Echo Herbs :P MMLN メーマウリアン 16:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
  31. A blind fighter still has a chance of hitting and if a healer gets blinded he can just cast esuna and fiix it, but if the healer gets struck with silence and you have no remedy's or echo herbs and no one alse can use esuna or a status healing spell (and youre at a boss maybe) youre kinda screwed. my vote goes to silence. Bjarnster 17:29, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
  32. Slience.... plain and simple.... No magic = Oh crap! Hyperwire
  33. If a mage gets hit with this, they basically become a paperweight. Boogum 07:14, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
  34. blind REDUCES accuracy, silence DESTROYS all magic stats other than defence and MP (if you want to call that a stat)Derum
  35. Silence will destroy your mage, while darkness only hinders your warior. Violawes
  36. Maverick Riot 11:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC): Silence has rendered enemies useless so I could just walk over them. It's also screwed over my own mage characters. Darkness is good, but it doesn't necessarily spell the end. It didn't even effect Squall, I'll have you know.
  37. Silence is more nuisance than darkness. So... yeah. Vincent Portrait.jpgFinalfreakfantasyDeathPenalty.png17:44, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
  38. Silence is an awesome advantage! Unlike darkness, your opponent can't attack with magic. Darkness, you have less of a chance, but you may be lucky to get a hit in there. Silence can destroy your team in an instant, especially your mages! CaptainKhaos 21:00, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
  39. DieKorruption
  40. I can live with Darkness just fine. But when your members stop healing or curing ailments... Vohaul86
  41. Silence stops healing and uber powerful damage spells, while darkness doesn't even work in snes FFVI Johuotar 12:27, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
  42. Silence is not only one of my favorite abilities, but it can also ruin alot of spells for people who have them. SuperGuyverUSA 5:39, 10 Agust 2009 (UTC)
  43. After spending time playing all my FF games to see how Silence and Blind work in each of them and how they affect my game play I've decided to vote for Silence, because in some games it's slightly annoying. Though I must say that normally none of those two affect me really when playing, I'm always stocking up magic damaging items and potions so if a mage ends mute I use those if I'm out of herbs, and my melee fighters still do damage most of the time when affected by blindness. Celythia
  44. I find silence to be a lot more effective when it's inflicted on a mage... I hate it! Crims0nf0rtune 11:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
  45. FinalAnnihilator 12:01, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Silence is definitely more devastating on my characters. Darkness can easily be cured by a White Mage, not to mention that if darkness gets cast on a magic user it doesn't matter since their magical attacks like fire, blizzard, thunder, etc. will still always hit.(status effect magic usually never works anyway so if Darkness does make them even less effective it doesn't really matter) If Silence gets cast on my mages, especially my healers, then I better hope the battle ends soon or I have an item to remove it otherwise it's a game over for me. Even on enemies, when it does work, I think Silence is more effective and devastating. Enemy magic attacks are usually more devastating then their physical attacks; not to mention I can easily heal through whatever attacks they throw my way but the enemy healing through my attacks gets rather annoying. 173.63.176.221 03:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  2. 85.156.90.17 07:29, 4 August 2009 (UTC) okay, silence owns when you'r at low hp, and you'r WM goes all mute all the sudden.
  3. Cause it's one of the few status spells I ever used? 89.217.237.139 12:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  4. Silence completely disables magic,while darkness only decreases your chance to hit.Silence definitely does more damage to your party. 76.126.68.142 18:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  5. Silence just plain pwns blind. (it is truly a joke in FF8, the only enemy ONE of the characters in that's going to miss if blinded is a cactuar, and he still would hit about half the time!) Not to mention white mage (or character with high level !White in FF5's case) silenced = you're f**ked. 62.252.178.158 17:21, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Votes for See No Evil[edit source]

  1. BlueHighwind : I wanted to try out my nickname design in a black background.
  2. I hardly ever use magic. Darkness can be very frustrating. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 23:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
  3. I found darkness to be a hundred times more useful to use in battle than silence. Besides, silence is a pain in the butt to cure. Mako Angel
  4. See above. Silence might be slightly more annoying on your characters, but for yourself to use Blind/Darkness is generally much more effective. Plus, more enemies seem able to be afflicted by Blind anyhow. Nokareon
  5. I'm more of a brute-force fighter who likes to hold down the A-button and hack away. Silence has no effect on me. JohnnyC
  6. Mr_DARKside :P Mr_Darkside 07:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  7. The colour scheme of this match just strikes me as awesome. Neither is particularly effective, but silence is more annoying for me. — YuanSaluto!Acta 07:40, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  8. I hate Darkness. When enemies aren't immune to it, it rarely connects anyway. When it does connect, it barely has an effect. If Silence connects, it's guarenteed to stop their spells, and absolutely cripples the enemy. --Gamer2127 07:51, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  9. Err, since there seems to be a fight whether we should vote for the status that is more or less annoying. I flipped a coin. :/ ScatheMote 08:04, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  10. Definetly Darkness/Blind is better, because it is great against T-rexaur in Balamb Gardens Training Center in FFVIII. Darkness is helpful agaist strong phisical attackers, while Silence only works against those, that doesn't actually use magic at all.SquallisbetterthanCloud 08:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  11. Silence is bad for magic users. Darkness is bad for both sword and magic users. Kuzlalala Squee! 09:22, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  12. When I'm running around levelling just tapping X or A to attack and not paying attention, Blind ruins that for me and I have to PAY ATTENTION! User:Nirvana Phoenix
  13. Uh...well, I usually found Darkness more annoying. And is more often useful to actually use in most cases than Silence. Bangaa Red Mage 10:46, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  14. I like to see Squall & co. with an afro wig. Karu
  15. <add stupid reason here>Zak Undersn 15:15, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  16. Oh black background, you kick ass. ロル Lol Cakes オケス 16:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  17. Eye drops make your eyes sting like hell. Thus Darkness is more punishing...? Also because this black backround is cool. Yay. —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|16:53, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  18. Ltfabretti Dragoon 19:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  19. Faethinte audio finds missing the target over and over and over quite annoying.
  20. I don't talk much anyway.--Werefang[T/A] 20:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  21. Silence does nothing to melee fighters. Darkness is a pain for any character. Signed, The Recondite Sage.
  22. Having my main damage-dealers swatting around like blind fools (especially when I've run out of Eye Drops) in a fight makes me seriously consider giving up sometimes. - Paramina 21:45, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  23. Because I've never gotten silence to work effectively on enemies. Also because darkness sounds way cooler. MisfitAirship
  24. Best to be Blind and able to cast spells than vise-versa. I take Blind over Silence 80% of the time, though both are annoying, depending on the character. --wee187 00:12, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
  25. Cloudiroth Most enemies that silence would be useful against are normally immune, darkness on the other hand has helped me tackle seemingly impossible bossed on more than one occasion.
  26. Trindadex 01:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC) usually the bosses are immune to silence
  27. FinalFantasyAerith Lol I find darkness to be a handy addition to the team in FFX as most creatures seem to not be immune to it shockingly enough and then that means I get lots of experience against mindlessly strong fiends :D
  28. Legend of Fantasy 00:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC) I've been playing Final Fantasy III DS lately, and my two physical attackers keep getting blinded. And my mages are worthless in Goldor's Mansion, so..... It murders my party. I give it my vote to quell it's hatred of me.
  29. Silence is a pain, but i use darkness more often and pretty often im content beating the crap out of whatever it is with the staff of a mage if it's been silencedBritPenance 14:41 7 August 2009 (UTC)
  30. One: Black background owns. Two: Neither are useful defensively in most games with the exception of FFX, in which darkness is occasionally useful. Three: Darkness on me > silence on me because I have to take it off more characters (thiefs tend to shift my team towards the melee-heavy side). Four: OCD says vote for the shorter one. -- Armond 20:46, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
  31. While I found silence hindered me more it was never anywhere near as useful as as blind. Immune to stop 00:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
  32. In a all monk challenge blind will kill you, where as silence is much less annoying. Cammy_G
  33. I'm playing FFXII at the minute and my characters being blinded in battle is much more irksome than silenced. Hamfruitcake 09 16:17, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
  34. Yuffie2211
  35. I think I used darkness more than silence against enemies. It worked really well for me especially when the status was attached to my weapons. dudutsai
  36. Darkness for me. But then again, it does depend on the situation... User:Lord~Exdeath
  37. Sunpanda2012 22:41, 12 August 2009 (UTC) Darkness is way more annoying and useful
  38. Physical Attacks are much more useful and much more of a threat then magical attacks ever will be KaiserPaladin 07:13, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
  39. Rinoa leonheart 11:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC) O YA
  40. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L - I happen to melee more, what can I say.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. I'd rather be mute than blind. 81.193.16.81 11:37, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  2. This one was a tough choice. On the one hand, silence prevents magic. On the other hand, darkness cuts down on physical attacks. But, since I usually use physical attacks more than magical attacks, darkness is the more effective spell on me.74.99.12.17 15:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  3. I hate silence! --201.43.201.40 19:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
  4. It took me a while to decide, but the truth is that in battle I usually just have everyone attack: the fighters deal good damage, the mages...not so much. So if my mages get silenced I'll just make them waste a turn they'd essentially waste anyway to recover silence with an item, and the fighters can still fight. However, my fighters getting blind means I'll prolly miss and not deal damage that turn. Also, darkness is a more effective spell to use on enemies, since they usually just attack or use special attacks instead of magic. 206.248.110.71 04:38, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
  5. 206.24.49.1 21:59, 10 August 2009 (UTC) I rely mostly on weapon and item rather than on magic. Therefor, i don't really care when i'm silenced. I just continue attacking. A mage can run out of MP, a fighter doesn't need MP or care abt being silenced. Also, blind is usually more useful against enemies anyway!
  6. Magical attacks are worthless when you have a good physical fighter, especially in boss battles 121.223.138.79 07:16, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Wait a minute... I thought that fights like spells and places were against the rules? Whatever, not votic this week i never bothered with status effects-Saraija Merinas

You could have just put the words Silence and Darkness in the space where the images would be. Use your intuition! Jeppo (Talk) 23:19, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I would've preferred sprites from eg. FFVI with the status effects, since they were visible during the combat. SamSandy 08:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I would have liked to see little icons for each, like the ellipsis bubble for Silence and the little sunglasses for Darkness. Like the charcaters have in FFVI and FFVI. TheBlueDragoon 01:24, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Here's an... interesting fight. Not much to say here on my end, except that whoever suggested this is probably very happy. TheBlueDragoon 02:49, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Interesting choice here. Will have to think about this a little as I work with magic and meele depending on my mood so both status effects tend to annoy me a lot. I like the way the battle is illustrated (or should I say not illustrated?), though at first I thought it was a battle between light and darkness before I read the title xDD Celythia

NOTE: which is more punishing? --Silver Mage 11:36, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, it really depends on the game. Exdeath64 19:38, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Well, i was just reminding people that it's about which one is more dangerous. --Silver Mage 08:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
It does depend on the game. Silence and Blind can be a godsend or utterly worthless, depending on the game. 71.106.152.201 05:15, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
It's not, it's just an useless popularity contest as any other DNC fight. Zak Undersn 16:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
If this place is so useless, then why are you here AND voting? Go away, emo child, no need to bring your moodiness here. :P SamSandy 19:31, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
First: Go get fucked by a horse. Second: In b4 user was banned for this post. Third: I love useless things, otherwise I wouldn't be answering to that. Zak Undersn 20:21, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
No more arguing please, take this outside. I've learned my lesson. --Silver Mage 02:56, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
True 'dat, brudda. There may be children here. Well, on the off chance your not all just a bunch of 43-year-olds living in your grandparents basement. Regardless, please try to be courteous of others, and respect their opinion. I don't think anybody wants to see anymore ridiculously long debates.
But, regarding the this year's election, It seems hard to see a clear winner here. "Dark" does seem to have it's useful qualities (i.e. sometimes inflicting "Blind", striking multiple opponents at once) though. However, "Silence" has the very useful skill of striping enemies of their magic ability. So, it seems to me that... I can't decide. I guess I'll just wait for a better fight to see who wins. - Lost Hero
No more fighting! Just be courteous and if you have a problem, use your talk pages! I don't want a huge fight like we usually do. TheBlueDragoon 04:05, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I find it rather fascinating that there are so many different reasons for voting in this poll; some people are even voting for one status condition because they believe the other one is stronger. --Saethori 05:03, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

People have a lot of reasons for their votes. And yes, sometimes one status effect is stronger than the other. A blind melee character can still deal damage, but a silenced mage is nigh on useless. Of course, there are some people who disagree with that, but hey, its the Internet. We all have opinions. TheBlueDragoon 23:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
I was actually referring to the fact that there are votes in both sections that say the same thing; A vote for X because X is stronger than Y, and then a vote for Y because... X is stronger than Y. >_> --Saethori 00:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeesh, sorry. TheBlueDragoon 03:52, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

About time for a change? - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:22, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Definately. This fight's been over for, what, a week now? The.DreadnoughT 21:13, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Well, the fight started 16 days ago. Maybe the guy who does this are on holiday? Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 21:15, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

If so, then surely we can just change it ourselves. What's next on the waiting list? The Man In The Black Cape 21:29, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

That is not something that I would recommend. Why don't you go out and improve the wiki while you wait? Jeppo (Talk | contribs) 21:32, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
You just slow your roll there. It'll get done. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

I was the one who suggested this fight a WHILE back. Glad to see it was used :).--BigCubby 03:14, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Week 127: Ramza v. Basch[edit source]

Ramza.jpg
DNC Versus.png
FFXII Basch Render.png
WINNER!
Ramza
38 1/2 to 34
Two men, despised on Ivalice for different reasons, in different times. Both men, apparently swordsmen, but you have a great deal of control over that.
Ramza.jpg

Votes for Ramza[edit source]

  1. Hard choice but I think I'll go with the guy who earned his "traitor" status due his actions rather than the the evil plot performed by the evil twin. And because Ramza DOES evolve through the story, Basch was all done and completed personality wise and such when he first appeared and lacked any evolution through the story. Celythia
  2. BlueHighwind : My instinct says Ramza. Gotta listen to it.
  3. He died for your sins, damnit. —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|22:26, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. I can't find fault with either of these two, but Ramza just sneaks it. Jeppo (Talk)
  5. Both decent character(Basch easily the best character of XII's Main cast). Ramza beat the tar out of a bunch of demons and was played like a damn fiddle by most everybody, and then gets shafted in history as a bad guy. Oh and he can Throw Stone. That by itself is 7 Layers of Cool. AnonyMan 22:35, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. If iI did not call myselft Ultima, I would have involved Ramza in my name. Ultima 22:36, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  7. Gotta go with one of favorite video game character out of any game, my man Ramza! Soldier of Light
  8. I vote for Ramza. Maybe because I like FFT more than FXII. Final_Cannon 23:58, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  9. Only because he killed Mustadio. ScatheMote 01:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  10. I like FFXII more than FFTactics, but Ramza is a better character than Basch in my honest opinion. --wee187 03:30, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  11. I'm a FFTactics drone and it was the first final fantasy game I played..ever!! so it instantly goes to Ramza Terderrer
  12. Ramza wins for the Phoenix Down scene. CheeseNinja 07:07, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  13. Well whaddaya know, I'm voting. -- N/A 07:42, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  14. Both are good characters, but Ramza was...yeeeeah. Bangaa Red Mage 07:57, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  15. Ramza has better clothing... OnionKnight23
  16. Ramza is quite possibly the greatest hero ever made. Unless someone wants to dispute this, I really don't have anything else to say. ChaosEsperVII
  17. Blykus 11:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  18. You know, I don't have any reason to vote for Basch. While Ramza rocks hard. Zak Undersn 11:28, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  19. He's a true hero and he's a member of House Beoulve. Karu
  20. Ramza, do I need a reason? ApatheticAngel
  21. 1. He has the power to be ANY CLASS, use such abilities for his own advantage and his team, 2. Is a great hero, standing afront a corrupt religion and daring to take it down due to it evil plans, 3. His game kicks major ass, and Ivalice is one awesome world I'd love to explore Brave Fencer Musashi style. Mask no Oni 19:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  22. Killing 7 mega demons and turning an entire warring country against you while they're still fighting each other? That takes balls of steel. Unless you make him a thief, then it's balls of steal :P--Muchomas35 19:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  23. Pikmin Master: Monk Ramza. Done.
  24. Theentertainer:OI! Ramza Better Game, Better Character, Better Story.
  25. Ramza cos he's mint Bruntie2 11:48, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
  26. Gotta vote for a guy with no nose. ロル Lol Cakes オケス 14:20, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
  27. Lockhart: Basch is nice, but Ramza is one of the best leads in the series.
  28. Ramza's amazing. Plus, I LOVE Tactics and HATE XII xD So this is really no contest for me. Ramaza really deserves the win with this one, though. Yzz 04:14, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
  29. Gotta give it to Ramza.Immune to stop 18:26, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
  30. Tactics was the very first Final Fantasy game I ever played. How can I not vote for Ramza? Besides, if an entire religion decided he was dangerous enough to be considered an enemy, he had to be doing something right. Silver Dragon XXVIII 20:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
  31. It's difficult to actually make an argument for either of them that doesn't apply to the other, but I like Ramza much more that Basch. Signed, The Recondite Sage
  32. Ramza was the leading man, basch is a pale imitation weilding a lesser sword. Hamfruitcake 09 07:28, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  33. A great hero, not remembered in the annuals of ivalician history, but more than worthy of defeating the man responsible for Vaan's worst lines in FF XII Jamiemitsu FTW 19:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
  34. Awesome character, awesome design. — YuanSaluto!Acta 23:26, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
  35. Ramza was one of the few FF heros that didn't annoy the crap outta me at any given point in the game (not emo, whiny, or just bleh. personality AND taste in a character design. THANK YOU).#Molly-sama 01:51, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  36. recino I saw the names and thought Basch was Balthier (wich in my brain makes a lot of sence) but now that I relize it's Basch, I have to go with Ramza because he's cooler had a better game and more personality... I love FFT
  37. Surprisely, Ramza is winning and I'm happy about it. Mean this that more people know FFT now? Well, finally a good fight. I don't have much time to explain myself, so just: Ramza's much better character than Basch. Nothing more to say. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 22:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. I like his character development ^^ 62.167.38.233 10:34, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  2. Ramza owns big time... loved him in FFT. 81.193.19.184 14:41, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. 74.72.39.163 05:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC) Ramza is part of my childhood...so is Cloud but Ramza is less emotional...more heroic. Plus Medieval Themed = Win. I love that my brother played all of FFT reading it aloud...That really helps when your like five >.>

Votes for Basch[edit source]

  1. Basch Rules! Uppfinnarn 15:34, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
  2. I have seen both men in action, and hands down Basch has this one in the bag...no questions asked. Jennilouwho 00:59, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. Yeah, finally, my idea! I'll vote for the guy who saved Ivalice after spending two years in a cage. --TenzaZangetsu 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. I don't know Ramza, so I vote for Basch.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 22:06, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  5. Basch is much more interesting and unique as a character, while Ramza is your all-too-common mute protagonist with no personality. Not a tough choice.SamSandy 22:24, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. Basch wins my vote simply for being from FFXII. I haven't played FFT yet, but I'm sure this will be a good fight. TheBlueDragoon 22:32, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
  7. I like both. Basch has the advantage of graphics, relationship with Ashe, and Gabranth. Shining Ray > Ultima. 8bit 01:05, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  8. Basch doesn't speak in Ye Olde Englishe. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 01:32, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  9. I say Basch because of his stoic determinedness. He doesn't whine or question his motives like Ramza, he's the man who knows where he stands. Ramza's WotL VA didn't help either. Master Aohan 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  10. Mostly because Ondore lied. The.DreadnoughT 01:51, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  11. Cap'n fon Rosenburg is such a manly man. I think that'll suffice Violet mage03:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  12. Ramza had quite the quest, but I never really cared about him (just his story). Basch, on the other hand, is an interesting character, even though he (like most FFXII characters) could have used some more screen time. ClixPsi
  13. I like Ramza more. --Gamer2127 05:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  14. Berserk+Bravery+Haste+tornesol=Living Chainsaw.Exdeath64 05:13, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  15. the real lead of FF12 NeoExdeath 06:02, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  16. Heck, haven't even played Tactics, or wherever Ramza is. Besides I've always used Basch in my team, along with Balthier and Fran. Vincent Portrait.jpgFinalfreakfantasyDeathPenalty.png 07:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  17. Basch is better than Ramza because he is from a mainstream Final Fantasy game. Besides Final Fantasy XII is the best FF game and tactics sucks. KaiserPaladin 07:26, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  18. Ramza doesnt have a wussy fan running around town pretending to be him (Admit it Vaan) Leon5550 08:15, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  19. No comment --Silver Mage 09:05, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  20. Kuzlalala Squee! 09:20, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  21. Just look at them. Sure, Ramza may be more noble, but Basch could easily kick his ass.--Xepscern 13:17, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  22. Not that I need an explanation, but a) Basch is all-round tougher than Ramza and would therefore beat him in a fight, and b) Basch may a mindless roider, but he is still way cooler than whiny, high-pitched, wishy-washy, castrated ladyboy dipshit over there. The Man In The Black Cape 18:54, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  23. Suprisingly difficult choice! But had to go for Basch in the end. If he gets enough support maybe SquareEnix will continue to make male characters who don't arguably resemble women!Rivenous
  24. Cloudiroth TANK!
  25. NocturnisEstra100 06:59, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
  26. Rocking Chair Ramza was never that great to me. Basch is probably the most manly man in the series. Apart from Jecht.
  27. Let us be clear that I am voting for his badass twin Gabranth, not this weakling. MechaUltimaZero 16:00, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
  28. He has more style Trindadex 16:19, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
  29. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 03:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  30. Basch wins. We all lose. FinalAnnihilator 18:07, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  31. Basch. Ltfabretti The Dragoon Chocobo 19:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
  32. Because I don't really know much about Ramza, but I highly doubt he can top the noble and ever awesome Basch. MisfitAirship
  33. Basch is a better character in his story, than Ramza was in his one. I mean, c'mon, A once-famous knight, now framed in murder, versus a noble kid. No competition here.SquallisbetterthanCloud 15:39, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
  34. This might surprise some of you, but I have to vote against Tactics here... T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Basch because he's hot. Also, he had a better story than the main character of FFXII. I'm looking at you, Vaan. 71.167.15.108 04:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  2. Basch is strong. 124.179.241.69 07:30, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Just had to point this out. Who the hell voted for Basch with a vote that says "I like Ramza more?" TheBlueDragoon 17:57, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Noticing a lot of unsigned Anonymous votes again. Please don't make me and The Dreadnought say it again, so here's a friendly reminder. Use four tildes to sign your username or IP address. If you don't sign, your votes don't count... TheBlueDragoon 06:51, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

MY IDEA, FINALLY! Sorry if I am pissing anyone, is just that I'm happy right now. --TenzaZangetsu 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I like this fight, I liked both characters enough and partly I hope it ends in a tie, though probably it will not XD Celythia
Thanks, it was the suggestions that had the most votes. They are two of my favorites characters and they are both awesome, it was hard to decide. --TenzaZangetsu 22 July 2009 (UTC)
This was a very good suggestion Tenza. It was hard to choose. TheBlueDragoon 23:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree great idea, so nice that people can think oof good fights...- Saraija Merinas

Finally a good fight! I'm pumped about this one. I have a good feeling about this fight. Much as I wanted to vote for Ramza, I haven't played FFT or War of the Lions. (yet) So yeah, this is a good fight. TheBlueDragoon 22:34, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Looks like a victory for Ramza at this time. It was probably the best fight I've seen so far, aside from the last "Bad Fight Week", which was a simply amazing week. TheBlueDragoon 23:03, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

  • Now we need to have my Delita vs. Vossler fight put in to be the polar opposite of this current one. -Nokaroen
Or my Rosa versus Rinoa. Or that Kuja versus Genesis fight thats been there for months. TheBlueDragoon 02:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
I say we do Biggs v. Wedge again! Woo hoo! Who's with me? --BlueHighwind 02:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
That's not my point. I mean it would fit perfectly, because Delita is the foil to Ramza, and Vossler is the foil to Basch (either that or Gabranth, but whatever...) -Nokareon
I saw your point. I just wanted to say my own point. TheBlueDragoon 03:35, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Better plan: Final Fantasy Biggs and Wedge versus Star Wars Biggs and Wedge, or maybe Vicks versus Biggs... Look, if we're going to keep griping over fights when a decent one is going on, I have something to say: the only character I've ever so much as heard of who's never been in the DNC is Whiteylocks. Therefore, I actually have a good reason to say that one of the fights I supported should get chosen. The.DreadnoughT 19:59, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
And why not a FFVI-Mog vs a FFXI-Mog? Who's the best Mog? Celythia
I suggested a Mog fight months ago. Mog versus Red XIII, but its only got four supports. I have a lot of suggestions in the nomination page. TheBlueDragoon 15:52, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


Am I the only one that keeps thinking that they used Ramza as Basch's base, just tweaking things around a little and leaving most of the essence of the character? I've been wondering about that since I first got FFXII.Celythia

I'm of the mind that they melded Ramza and Ahsley Riot of Vagrant Story to get Basch. So no; your not entirely alone. Theentertainer
Yeah, they look quite similar. And to throw a bit of conspiranoia in here: If you look closely their artworks, you'll see that their poses are quite similar, too. Zak Undersn 23:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I wonder where SamSandy got the idea that Ramza is mute. Zak Undersn 11:34, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Not from playing the game, that's for sure. Though I must admit that when I first got the game I expected Ramza to be a mute protagonist due the style of the game. Celythia
Oh, he's not? I admit I haven't played the game, but I always assumed he doesn't speak... I don't recall seeing any screenshots of Ramza speaking, either. My bad, sorry. Not affecting my vote in any way, though. SamSandy 20:32, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
I supposed it wouldn't, no reason for it to affect it. And as I said I also thought he wouldn't talk and have no personality before playing the game so your mistake is understandable at least from my part. Celythia

Why is it so many votes that go to Basch are people who haven't even PLAYED FFT? Theentertainer

Cause that's how the DNC works? And because if people refrained themselves from voting in battles where they don't know one of the characters because they haven't played the game the amount of votes and activity would drop crazily. Personally I don't care if people vote for Basch because he's "a mainstream FF character" or because "Who's that Ramza guy anyway?", but I admit it annoys me that they don't apparently even bother to click the links at the top of the fight and read what the wiki says about the character. It may not change the vote but I assume that they put the links to the characters' pages for a reason other than have their names show in blue letters. After all this is a wiki, not a random board where to get information about a character you have to open a post and wait for people to answer you. Celythia
You can't expect people to have played every FF like you or I have.Nokareon
Plus FF Tactics is one of the harder FF-games to get, at least where I come from. It wasn't released here at all until the PSP-remake, and I unfortunately don't own a PSP. Otherwise I would've of course played it by now. But yeah, you can't restrict people from voting in these polls even if they haven't played a single FF-game. There's just no way. SamSandy 18:02, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
I do agree with you Nokareon. I've played the entire main series, and most of the spinoffs. But the only one I've yet to play is FFT. I've read up on Ramza, but he still doesn't get my vote. And to Celythia, why does it annoy you? So people don't know a character. Its nothing to get all huffy about? TheBlueDragoon 18:07, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Maybe I worded myself wrong? English is not my first language so I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. Anyway I didn't mean to say that I was annoyed about the fact that people didn't know a character, it would be stupid to be annoyed by that. What annoys me is the fact that apparently no one even bothers to at least try and look at the information this wiki has about the character. I don't mean to say that people should sit and read every character's page in depth or anything, but I don't think it's that hard to at the very least confirm from which game the unknown character is, and the reason why I find this annoying is because this is a wiki not a random board, supposedly we gather here to share and complete information about a franchise we all like and enjoy by extent to this we also discuss about or opinions and likes and socialize, with a board and all. But probably that's just me being wrong with the concepts and ideas, I came to this wiki in search of information and later to socialize even a little bit, but that's just me and maybe it should be the other way around? Of course I could still be deadly wrong and people actually do look at the unknown character's page a little, even if their vote is still reduced to "I don't know him but I know this guy" because reading information about a character just isn't the same as playing the game and watching that character's script and actions, and there's little to no way for that to make people go "Hey I like this guy I just read about more than this guy I played with and used in my party and felt identified with!". But I find difficult to think that most of the people do that when looking at votes that say "I didn't play whatever the game this character is from" which is a line of voting that I have seen more than just once in the DNC. I hope I explained myself better this time X.x Celythia
I didn't mean that in a bad way. I apologize if I have offended you. I see where you are coming from. I myself, having never played Tactics or seen Ramza's character, I voted for Basch. I was considering voting for Ramza, but it just didn't seem right. I know and love Basch. And believe it not, I researched Ramza and I love what he is. he's the good guy made to be a heretic. That is pure genius. Anyway, I was just curious. Sorry if I offended you. TheBlueDragoon 18:54, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
No offense taking at any moment, mostly I was worried that I hadn't expressed myself correctly and by that offend someone myself. Anyway your case is what I would consider the "ideal" in someone voting here, even if you don't really know the other character you looked up at it a little and though it ended not changing your vote the fact remains that you actually put a little thought in the vote. I think a vote should be casted that way, even if the reasons and thoughts are apparently simply or superficial (like "I like red better than blue", "I like her dress more", "He has no nose", "That one looks weaker than this one"...), if there's a bit of thought then nothing more should be asked. But people that open the page look at the names and go "Ramza what?" and vote for Basch... Well it just make their vote look empty in my eyes. Again no offense was taken, I hope I didn't offend you likewise either with my first comment or my consequent replies. Celythia
No offense was taken. And yes, people could think their votes out more. I understand completely where you're coming from. I just got nothing else to say. You said everything I was going to say already. XD TheBlueDragoon 21:31, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
But hey, this is a popularity contest. If all those reasons you mentioned are good enough for electing the President, they're good enough for the DNC. -Nokareon
You're right Nokareon. Although I don't want to get on a political debate. If we can choose the President this way, why not a DNC battle? TheBlueDragoon 04:30, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Can't help but laugh at that anonymous vote that proclaims Ramza to be invincible because he's friends with Cloud... didn't help Aerith, did it? Yeah, I went there. Nevanus

Noticing that too, it made me chuckle. It didn't help a lot of people who crossed paths with Sephiroth. TheBlueDragoon 17:39, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

I am astounded by the number of votes for Ramza. If this was Larsa, everybody except me would be lining up to piss on him, but Ramza, who has all of Larsa's disadvantages, with even less excuse (have you seen him? heard his voice acting? experienced his entire retarded character?) is beating Basch! Of all people! Not that I'm moaning or anything... The Man In The Black Cape 19:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Glad that you're not moaning or anything. And for the record I liked Larsa. Celythia
Larsa was my favorite character in FFXII. He even beats Balthier. Larsa was just a good character overall. TheBlueDragoon 23:01, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Yay for the character with the free Hi-/X-Potions! The.DreadnoughT 19:22, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Ramza was hated by everyone and still pressed on. I know Basch was too but they made a huge effort to not only point that out to Ramza every chance someone got but also to mention that no one wanted his help and he still pulled through. For all intents Basch got a happy ending by comparison. Ramza knew he was going to be hunted for the rest of his life for knowing the truth and was all but written out of history for being a heretic regardless of what he accomplished. Also, don't you want a hero that questions himself? I would think that would make him more human and the mistakes he made just adds to that. Theentertainer 10:05, 27 July 2009
He has honor, he's a good man, he fights against a whole country because he wants to put things in it's place, he's a goddamn hero. What the heck is wrong with him? The only con I could see on Ramza is that he's a little too much idealist. Even I like him, and normally I hate idealists. Zak Undersn 12:03, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Finally a good battle, Im rather happy we finally got away from 6-8, This ones a toughie but I chose Basch because I havent beaten WoL yet. -Saraija Merinas Getting Basch in Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings where he has 900 HP and a protect spell ALMOST made me change my vote. -Nokareon

Ramza is voiced by Phil LaMarr. I did not know this. I can now without a doubt say that he is the greatest hero ever made. Also for those who argue that Basch was also seen as a traitor throughout Ivalice, it was really only Dalmasca, which isn't that big. Also, he was a political traitor which is a big deal but pales into comparison to a religious traitor, which is what Ramza was. You can mess with someone's country and probably just get shunned or criticized but if you mess with someone's religion, you can get killed. ChaosEsperVII

Week 126: Guest BlueHighwind Week - Biggs v. Wedge[edit source]

Biggs Reverse Portrait.png
DNC Versus.png
Wedge TAY portrait.png
WINNER!
Wedge
27 1/2 to 21 1/2
Unsung, unnoticed, and virtually identical, these are the forgotten heroes of the series. Haven't they suffered enough after their countless deaths? Obviously not! We will see them fight to the death to see who is the better Star Wars reference!
Wedge TAY portrait.png

Votes for Biggs[edit source]

  1. The force is strong with this one.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 17:20, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
  2. I am voting for Biggs as I am sure I have a Star wars figurine of him. Ultima 18:42, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. Though I nearly voted for Wedge (and was, in fact, about to click "Save Page" before I changed my mind) because they at least get his name right, I remembered that Vicks has a cooler last name: Darklighter > Antilles. Also, he had a cooler helmet (until the TIE fighter squad blasted it to subatomic particles, and him with it, that is.) The.DreadnoughT 01:40, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. I don't even care. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:49, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
  5. I'll go for the Underdog Rocking Chair
  6. I just wanted to vote Biggs cause he's AWESOME! - User:CloudStrife456
  7. He was the coolest in Final Fantasy VII - so my vote goes to Biggs! - MardukKurios
  8. Glaargh. Okay, Biggs edges it out because...well, I believe a 'Wedge' is a type of golf club. Bangaa Red Mage 09:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
  9. For honor of Biggs Darklighter, who died in the battle over Yavin 4. Finalfreakfantasy 10:37, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
  10. The man had a epic death in The After Years. --TenzaZangetsu 13 July 2009 (UTC)
  11. FinalAnnihilator 19:17, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
  12. Blykus 21:52, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
  13. I like red :) Mr_Darkside 06:59, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
  14. He made some pretty hilarrious scenes in VIII, especially when he decided to quit at the last bit. CheeseNinja 06:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
  15. Hah, they weren't identical in VII! Biggs was better-looking in that game, so my vote goes to him. Superficial, I know. SamSandy 16:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
  16. He wasn't fat in VII, he had cooler armor in VIII, and I've never watched a Star Wars movie other than 10 minutes of II. 8D —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|18:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
  17. Woooo, go Biggs! Bruntie2 18:56, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
  18. MaesterTonberry 14:13, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
  19. Destriker73 23:56, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
  20. I had to think a lot about this one... Whenever I think of Biggs, I immediately think of Wedge, too, and vice versa. It's not just Biggs and not just Wedge. It's Biggs and Wedge! However, I made my decision based on their appearances in FFVII ;D! <.<; Yzz 10:46, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. He made sure that Luke survived to take on Darth Vader later in the movies. Go Biggs!

74.99.0.248 23:09, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

  1. 93.41.215.106 20:25, 18 July 2009 (UTC)He's a hottie in FFVII
  2. Me too, I prefer red to blue, so Biggs wins. 89.217.32.5 13:25, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Votes for Wedge[edit source]

  1. BlueHighwind : The man took out an AT-AT, what more do you need?
  2. He gets to die a more elaborate death in Echoes of Strife. Hey, if we're bringing Star Wars in, we might as well add some FFwiki fanfic. ^^ Condemnation! 8bit 17:26, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. I was considering voting for Biggs, but I remembered that Gibbs is a dumbass because he hates Chocobos -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 17:56, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. He was one of my favorite players in Blitzball, and he never got his name mistranslated back in the SNES days. ClixPsi
  5. He's just better. --wee187 18:51, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. I like Wedge's color better in The After Years and I guess he has a slightly better name. Let's go with that.--Otherarrow 19:12, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
  7. The only Biggs incarnation that I came to like over Wedge was the FFVII one and despite my love for that game the fact that I prefer Wedge at every other game they have been on is enough to get me to vote for him. Celythia
  8. Wedge's name is done right more consistently. (Vicks, Gibbs, etc.) Anyway, I don't really care all this much about this fight, but in FFVIII (one of the few FF's where the two had developed, separate personalities), Wedge is funnier. -Nokareon
  9. Pikmin Master: White Magic. Done.
  10. Wedge was funny in FFVII. ScatheMote 03:07, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
  11. Hes a follower to biggs thats why. GRIEVER POWER 15:11, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
  12. MrAllStar2: Wedge didnt get his pay at the dollet communication tower :(
  13. Onionknight23 wedgy wedgy
  14. I like his rotund appearance in FFVII Violet mage
  15. At least Wedge is played by Ewan McGregor's uncle! 'Nuff said.--Cluna 06 04:09, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
  16. He's not a bastard like his IV ATY Partner. OMGkappa
  17. He's an awesome center in Blitzball.--Werefang 21:55, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
  18. I'm voting for Wedge, because he actually survived the first five minutes of his screen time in Star wars, and he's the best pilot ever. (better than Luke cause he cheated with the force). And in ffvi I think he dies after bigs. Archmael 22:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
  19. Pity vote, because my conscience won't allow me to not vote in a DNC match, even if it is a fight between two characters who are nigh identical. TheBlueDragoon 02:10, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
  20. Gotta give it up to Wedge. He's a survivor. Theentertainer
  21. It continues. --Gamer2127 03:33, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
  22. wedge antilles rules! NeoExdeath 03:41, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
  23. Wedge was always better in the games they were in BritBoy 20:52, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
  24. Kuzlalala Squee! 11:53, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
  25. As a huge Star Wars fan, i have to say that Wedge is better. He surived attacks on BOTH Death Stars, mind you, and he fought in every major conflict after that for atleast the next 39 years. Biggs died attacking the first Death Star. Wedge wins. Irish Reaper 20:34, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
  26. They're heading for the medical frigate! T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Wedge has always been one of my favorite Star Wars characters, so since there's not really anything to distinguish between the two in Final Fantasy I'll base my vote off of that.71.187.79.22 19:46, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
  2. I played eeny meeny miny moe and Wedge was the winner. 69.204.66.223 04:14, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. Wedge. Beacause he's wearing blue213.13.225.61 21:50, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

I am aware that this fight was not in any Queued list on the Nomination page, meaning that nobody asked for it. There's even a good chance you might not like this idea. Well, you know how TacticAngel doesn't care? I care that much less. Cry me a river, Space Monkies. --BlueHighwind 16:56, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I support your apathy, Mr. Highwind, and any heavy-handed judgments to follow -- T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L 20:46, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
You're just confirming that the Nomination Page is a LIE, aren't you? Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 07:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
I have never said that the nomination page is a lie. The current policy states that they are suggestions. Final approval is given by myself or people working on my behalf. Don't think I don't feel your plight, but considering I have to pay some amount of attention to the nomination page. I can see more directly than most, since this displeasure is vented in my direction, the correlation between suggestion trends and complaint trends, which, I might add, was not all-together unpredictable. There are many life lessons to be learned in this, all of which are less effective if pointed out rather than happened upon by personal discovery. I might add that this discussion is arguably off-topic, and you should address my talk page if you wish to hold a conversation with me on this matter. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L 21:40, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
In support Of T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L i must say, that as the over seer of the DNC, he has every right to put in a fight he wants, afterall everyone seams to pick the same 10 characters out of the 100's in FF to do over and over again. How would you feel if your sitting there and having to chose between Sephiroth Vs Kefka, Cloud VS Zidane, Cloud Vs Zack, Sephiroth Vs Everyf***ing character in the series, Tifa this, aerith this, rydia this. Cant we all be more original? So if he wasnts to put in his own fights I dont see a problem. -Saraija Merinas

Pity, we just had quite a few good ones. Exdeath64 18:30, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Well here's an interesting fight. Not exactly a good one, but it will require some thought. Are we voting based on their Star Wars quality, because if so, I refuse to vote, because I loathe Star Wars. TheBlueDragoon 18:37, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

It is a stupid fight if it's on a Star Wars basis – this was still FFWiki last time I looked – which is why I voted on an FF basis. There is one thing I can't complain about, and that's the fact that at least I managed to vote this time. Several fights lately have been too well-matched or had characters I didn't know well enough -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 18:45, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

To be sincere I didn't even know that they were a SW reference until this battle came up. I still don't really get it, I guess it's too naive to think that they came up with the names and decided to add them in almost every game on their own without thinking "Hey, let's make a SW reference because SW is so great!", but then again I'm quite naive sometimes. Celythia
This may have been chosen because of the discussion of Balthier (and/or the rest of FFXII) being a reference to Star Wars in the Peanut Gallery of Edgar vs Balthier. Just mentioning my own opinion here, TacticAngel probably has other (better) reasons for it, I'm just pointing it out. The.DreadnoughT 01:47, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
I hope the reasons behind this fight are more (and maybe better) than that too, even if it was a fight decided because TacticAngel was lazy to check the fights scheduled and was the first thing that came to mind. I would prefer that over the SW reference debate because SW references can be found just anywhere, I remember a guy who went around saying that LOTR by Tolkien was full of SW references. Because SW is so great that it got referenced even before it was created *headdesk* Celythia
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! --BlueHighwind 15:23, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
I hope whoever put this fight did it because he had a gun in his head and not for the SW references... It would be so... sad *Rai barely remember there was a nomination page or something like that*. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 22:48, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, god. Zak Undersn 18:57, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Remember when we used to have interesting fights? I wish I did. Drake Clawfang 19:04, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
I wish we did too. This was a bad fight in general, especially on a Star Wars basis. TheBlueDragoon 20:16, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I love Biggs and Wedge but having them fight just isn't right.Immune to stop 19:44, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Just proves many people on wiki's are morons. Deal with the facts :> Yay...star wars votes on FFWiki. *eyeroll* BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 21:24, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not gonna vote on this one. I couldn't care less about Star Wars references, and aside from that, these two are basically the same character to me. JohnnyC

Same for me. Silver Mage 03:24, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
I third what you both just said. TheBlueDragoon 03:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Cannot vote...they are ONE CHARACTER!

I KNOW! LET'S KEEP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE CURRENT FIGHT BECAUSE IT'S THE TRADITION EVERY SINGLE WEEK AND WE DON'T WANT TO BREAK OUR MONTHS-LONG STANDARD OF GRIPING OVER EVERY SINGLE MATCHUP EVEN WHEN TWENTY OTHER PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY DONE SO!!!! My God, guys. It's a DNC match. If you're not going to vote, we don't need to know - your absence is sufficient. 8bit 21:31, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

A statement about a less-than-appealing fact is automatically a complaint? JohnnyC
I have to agree with you there Johnny. Besides, much as I hate bitching for the sake of bitching, people who dislike this fight have just as much a right to say so as the people who do like this fight. You say there is no point in writing negative comments just because you judge the fight bad? Well correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you and a hell of a lot of other people making negative comments because you judge others comments to be unnecessary? Isn't that exactly the same thing?Rivenous
8bit is absolutely right. -Saraija Merinas

I would vote for Chewie. Karu

We all love Chewie Zak Undersn 13:29, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
I can't think of anyone who hates Chewie. TheBlueDragoon 21:22, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Rocking Chair 11:19am 14 July 2009 (EST) - Is it really that hard? Just vote if you want to, or don't vote. Stop bitching about every single godamn fight!

Who's bitching. I hardly ever write anything here. It just annoys me how anyone stating their mind about this is automatically considered to be whining and complaining. JohnnyC
Everyone is entitled to say whatever they want, bitching or not. This is a shitty fight. Both characters are almost identical. Biggs and Wedge are always background characters or comic relief. They rarely add anything important to the story except when they died in FFVII. We're just stating our own opinions, so you stop bitching over us bitching! TheBlueDragoon 02:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Every Fight? Silver Mage 08:38, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

8bit's comment made me laugh: he sounds like he's channeling Padma. I don't really care about the DNC, but it does seem that every fight has a number of people either going "This fight sucks! It's boring!" or "I don't know which one to choose!", interspersed with complaints about TA ignoring the nomination page (he didn't even choose this fight: Blue did). 8bit was probably not directing his comment at any single person, but asking in general that people think before they post. "I don't like this fight" five times over is boring to read, so if you really can't resist posting, be creative with your complaints at least. ;) — YuanSaluto!Acta 10:20, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry 'bout that. (Fatigue of anything useful to say.) --Silver Mage 11:20, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
What impresses me the most is that I personally told everybody the deal at the top of this Peanut Gallery business. Maybe I would have picked a fight out of Queued section if they weren't all so incredibly boring and played. By the way, I don't know who you're complaining to. Me? Then what do you hope to accomplish? I like this idea, and nothing any of you can say will make me think otherwise. And I am happily rowing down the river of tears you all cried for me. If you keep this up, I might get an ocean to swim in. =D --BlueHighwind 13:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Rocking Chair 9:01pm 14 July 2009 (EST) - It could be worse. This fight could involve Rosa and PaladinCecil could discuss why we should stop putting Rosa in fights because she will continue to lose.

BAWWWW WHY WON'T TACTICANGEL LISTEN TO US BAWWWWW. Lol, butthurt. I had to jump in. =DBfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|18:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Dude...really? Alright, I'll say it: This is retarded. And the people bitching that people are bitching? MORE RETARDED! It says right in the description that they're "virtually identical." Man, usually I feel bad for sparking so many complaints, but if you pick bad fight after bad fight, it's going to happen. There's a certain degree of opinion in most "bad fights," but this really takes the cake. Biggs vs. Wedge? Why not just do Johnny (FFVII minor NPC) vs. Darlavon (Tactics NPC who does the tutorial)? Hell, at least THAT has 2 DIFFERENT competitors. Naturally, I end with my obligatory, "Genesis vs. Kuja, God damn it!"Neo Bahamut 22:52, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Except no one wants that fight because it is so obviously one sided. Bitching at people for not listening is inherently pointless because they aren't listening.--Werefang 23:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
No one wants that fight, & that's why it has so many votes for it, & little or none against it? Yeah, THAT makes sense. And I think you're projecting. Obviously, you aren't listening, because that isn't what I'm bitching about. I'm saying that everyone who's complained in this topic has a valid point: This. Is. Retarded. Repeat, "Virtually identical." Telling them to "vote or shut up," is just ignoring that very obvious point they all have. So, here's the thing: You want people to stop bitching about bad fights? TAKE THEM UP ON THEIR SUGGESTIONS! It isn't that hard to figure out. No one asked for the XIII fight. No one asked for this. So, why did they get put up? Someone thought it was a good idea, & everyone else is just supposed to agree or not give a shit? Yeah, sorry, but it doesn't work that way. There's a reason there were so many complaints before even I looked at this week's fight.Neo Bahamut 00:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
People may claim they want the fight, but most of them are just doing that to dis Genesis. Also, I point out that "good" and "bad" are complete and utter oppinions. The terms are absolutely unquantifiable. Thus to claim that any fight is "good" or "bad" is wrong. The only intelegent thing to be said about this fight is that it IS a fight. The very thing that one person thinks is bad may be the very thing that someone else finds good. I love the openness of this fight; you don't. As for "everyone else is just supposed to agree or not give a shit," yes that is exactly how this is supposed to work; if you vote, you obviously agree; if not, you don't give a shit. So take your self rightousness and shove it. In the words of Mic Jagger, "You can't always get what you want."--Werefang 00:49, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Actually, Neo, it works exactly like that. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! --BlueHighwind 01:01, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
"Take your self-righteousness & shove it." I ain't gettin' into another 50 page argument with you because you're DESPERATE to prove me wrong. And that goes for Blue, if he decides to keep going, too. Agree with the complaints or shut the Hell up[/reversal]. "Most" is also a vague term. I think it's awfully stupid to call me on my generalizations, when your opening statement was "No one wants that fight." -I- want that fight. And I'm not the only one who wants it. So, take your own advice, & piss off.Neo Bahamut
I'm not the one who bitch, pisses and moans about nothing. "Most" is also a substantially less vague term the "good" or "bed" because it is a referance to numbers, not opinions. Any one with any brains knows that G v K is going to be an unexiting fight. You yourself state that you'd vote for Kuja and you are one of the few people who likes Genesis. At least this fight could go either way. Also, if you don't want a "50 page argument" don't start one. So buck up or fuck off, that's how the world works whether you like it or not. There are some fights that I want, but you don't see me screaming "Tidus vs. Vaan" every week.--Werefang 01:31, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Stop. I wasn't going to respond, but I felt the need to say the following 2 sentences: Don't quote mine me, asshole. I said I MIGHT vote for Kuja. For that matter, don't give me that "don't start fights" shit. Every week I post here, & every week you're up my ass. I don't know why, I don't care, but if you think you aren't "bitching, pissing, & moaning about nothing," then what the FUCK do you call arguing with me every week, Werefang?Neo Bahamut 01:36, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm (futily) attempting to stop you before you make a bigger ass of yourself than you already are.--Werefang 01:40, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Delusions of grandeur, thy name is Werefang.Neo Bahamut 02:25, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
That's the "pot calling the cettlekettle black," Neo_. Besides, didn't you recieve a test for doing this?--Werefang 13:13, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
That's "kettle." The.DreadnoughT 13:38, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Oops, thanks.--Werefang 14:43, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Do you two need a restraining order from each other? You're doing it again -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 14:10, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Hehe, Neo. When you mentioned Johnny, I thought you were saying something about me, since I have no idea who Johnny is FF7 is. xD (Ok, did I break the flaming-chain-reaction?) JohnnyC
I have no dog in this fight -- both are basically two sides of the same coin to me and there's no way I'm going to vote based on Star Wars. George B. (talk) 09:01, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I...really don't like a lot of the voting reasons. I mean, come on, these things have always been prone to some WTF votes, but "Biggs begins in B"? 'Course, you can't really come up with much of a reason for a vote, so with that said, I seriously hope this fight changes sometimes soon. (To Genesis vs. Kuja.)Neo Bahamut 13:13, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Fights usually change about Sunday or Monday, so don't worry. 8bit 20:29, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Good. I'm sick of looking at this fight. Its an eyesore in my eyes. Anything but this. Wouldn't mind seeing my new suggestion this week. TheBlueDragoon 05:38, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Seems like it was a slow week this week. I suggest we delay a new fight until next week so everyone gets a chance to vote! I know some people have a perfect record for voting in DNC fights, and wouldn't want anyone to miss it! --Gamer2127 08:39, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Space Monkies, I'd like to thank you. Not only did you cry me a river, you cried me a fuckin' ocean. Your whining is my beach fun time. --BlueHighwind 22:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Week 125: BAD FIGHT WEEK V[edit source]

Penelo v. Rikku[edit source]

Penelo dancing.jpg
DNC Versus.png
Rikku Poster.jpg
WINNER!
Rikku
59 to 22 1/2
Many hate them, some love them, some can't really remember them. Which girl is more popular/less annoying?
Rikku Poster.jpg

Votes for Penelo[edit source]

  1. I guess I feel pity? Hey, Penelo was an awesome mage. ...And she wasn't a crazy hyperactive teenager. ClixPsi
  2. People keep thinking that plot relevance equates to how annoying a character is. Yes, Pen wasn't important. Yes, the story could have gone the same without her but she's not annoying little girl. She's actually pretty down-to-earth. Vaan is also in the same boat as her, no way near as bad as people make him out to be. The A-Man
  3. I am proud to say Penelo was in my party During The Game. Ultima The High Seraph 17:57, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. I like them both. Therefore, I'm working to even it out.--Werefang 19:13, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  5. CookiePinguy 22:34, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. I have more interest to Penelo. Kuzlalala Squee! 04:17, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  7. Hearing Rikku's voice makes my ears bleed. At least Penelo could run around with an axe and kill things. Or, y'know, use magic like she was intended for...anyway, this is more a vote against Rikku than for Penelo. Bangaa Red Mage 06:25, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  8. Pikmin Master: I haven't played XII, but I still choose Panelo over Rikku. I did, however, played RW and A2. At least I don't necessarily need to use her in the games she's in.
  9. Silver Dragon XXVIII: Her voice does not make my ears bleed.
  10. I don't mind Rikku, but I tend to like the FFXII cast much more than the FFX cast, including that of Penny. --Wee187 18:42, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  11. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 20:04, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  12. Penelo is extremely useful in Revenant Wings. She has the unfortunate aspect of being linked with Vaan, but isn't really that irksome. 8bit 22:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  13. I have names for Rikku none want to hear. Penelo's dance scene made me feel sad in RW Poliwirl100 00:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  14. Munk451 Hard call, but i had to pick Penelo. Her quickenings are awesome and at least she isn't annoying like Rikku is!
  15. I just don't like Riku... Penelo was kinda cool at tactics a2 OnionKnight23
  16. Pity vote. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 20:49, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  17. Rinoa leonheart 08:36, 10 July 2009 (UTC)O YA go penelo
  18. Rocking Chair 10:41pm 10 July 2009 (EST) Penelo can be made to be useful in battle. Try actually using Rikku in a serious battle. I Dare You!
  19. BlueHighwind Got a sweet ass.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Penelo wasn't half as bad as people make her out to be. "Riven" 89.195.66.70 16:36, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  2. First off, Penelo has a better voice. Second, I actually USED her. Rikku annoyed me...a lot.173.50.0.132 23:45, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. I'd have to say, though I love both characters, Penelo would win simply because she has access to the License Board and the items provided in FFXII. For what's it worth, the spells in FFX and FFX-2 weren't as basic yet varied as in FFXII, so Penelo would be able to weaken and deal damage to Rikku without having to change dresspheres and equipment every few seconds. It'd be close, though (that and Penelo has Quickenings).
  4. I HATE female characters but FFXII is a better game then FFX. 124.179.241.69 11:41, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  5. Unlike most people, I have no problem with either character. I don't find Rikku annoying, and from what I've seen of Penelo there's nothing annoying about her character either, just the fact that she pretty much is useless to the plot and if you took her out there would be no difference in the story, other than Larsa wouldn't be able to hit on her. *wink wink* Under normal circumstances I'd probably vote for Rikku myself as I like her character, but I just feel bad for Penelo because she's going to get crushed in this fight and I don't like the senseless bashing of her character so my vote goes to her.71.187.79.22 21:04, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. I have to go with Penelo simply because Rikku is just too annoying. 206.248.109.31 13:08, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
  7. Penelo has more variety than Rikku. While in both Final Fantsay X and X2 Rikku stays a thief, Penelo totaly changes roles. She is more trustworthy and a better fighter.

Votes for Rikku[edit source]

  1. Barely. ScatheMote 15:38, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  2. Penelo is useless. --StragusLore 16:23, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. At least Rikku is hot. Drake Clawfang 17:09, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. They both annoy, but Rikku hot.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 18:29, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  5. Rikku has a personality, Penelo does not. Hamfruitcake 09 18:34, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. I will not comment on X-2, but in X rikku was great. She was useful because of mix, she was very plot relevant, and she changed the course of the game once her intentions became clear. Rikku was a great character. Penelo is rather bland. She's not bad, but she rather than being down to earth she doesn't bring much to the table. ChaosEsperVII
  7. There's... --Gamer2127 00:27, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  8. BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|02:05, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  9. This one's easy! I love Rikku, I hate Panelo, as CSM calls her. Violet mage
  10. User:Neosamuel Cute vs less cute. Im going for Rikku, atleast she was cool in Kingdom Hearts.
  11. Such an unfair choice. I go with Rikku simply because my girlfriend and I cosplayed Tidus and Rikku over the weekend TheBlueDragoon 05:41, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  12. Just coz she's funny as hell in X-2. CheeseNinja 06:55, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  13. Cuz it's fun to mix stuff. AtmaCrisis 07:08, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  14. She could steal some pretty decent stuff when she wanted to, she's hot as hell (some would say that about Penelo but I think she looks 12), and she had a personality beyond "My Parents Died In A Giant Cliché." Nevanus 09:32, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  15. Whatever...Silver Mage 09:34, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  16. Rikku cauz shes hot, funny, and was a memorable character in X and still managed to be an ok character in X-2, plus FF is short on alchemists nowadays Wyvern777 10:10, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  17. Rikku! She got me out of alot of sticky situations and she has cool eyes. Plus she speaks an awesome language and can steal rare items too! FinalFantasyAerith
  18. I can't not vote for Rikku... FinalAnnihilator 11:50, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  19. Shes one of my favorite female characters and she always manages to steal the itemDarkShuyin 13:40, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  20. She's simply more prominent and more fleshed out as a character. And quite endearing, when you get past the overt exterior. SamSandy 13:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  21. Rikku was an amazing and believable character who actually had some motivation to journey with the rest of the party and had a significant relationship with more than one member of the group. Also she had the best mix of abilities ever in X and had the most complex characterization of the girls in X-2.Jackrandall1 15:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  22. Unlike Penelo, she had a personality. Also much less annoying.Neo Bahamut 14:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  23. Dunno who Penelo is....Bruntie2 15:15, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  24. Ever since the first chapter of X-2, Rikku has been my favorite female Final-- my favorite female VIDEO GAME character ever! --Roxasxiii 16:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  25. Oh god, definately RIKKU! she blonde, hot, and in x-2 in a bikini. did i meantion she's hot and blonde?
  26. Leonhart178 17:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  27. Blykus 18:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  28. As anyone who has read my entry on the Torture forum will know, I hate Penelo beyond all meaning of the word. She is basically the FFXII version of Rikku (meh), Yuffie (hiss), Selphie (ack!), and Eiko (Aaaaaaaaargh!), only worse in every single way. I could tolerate Rikku, even liked her for a while, but Penelo... The Man In The Black Cape 20:32, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  29. OMG OMG OMG this is such my kind of battle! Rikku 100%! My favorite FF character :> But I like Penelo too...Though Rikku is #1 BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 20:48, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  30. Penello barely seemed to have much to do in her game. Rikku at least provided comedy. (And she probably became Square's number one centerfold. ;P) JohnnyC
  31. Both are annoying; Penelo is far more annoying. And I actually find it quite funny when Rikku uses "Luck" and her animation is timed with the battle music (as though she can hear it- breaking the fourth wall is funny) Penelo never does anything remotely near breaking the fourth wall in any way, much less such a creative way. Finally, Rikku is actually useful now and then, whereas Penelo can sit there, out of the party, for most of the game and not be missed. In fact, the few times I've bothered putting her in the active party, I regretted it very quickly. The.DreadnoughT 22:23, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  32. Swirly eyes = Awesomeness! 'nuff said - Sencilia
  33. FFX Characters > FFXII Characters - Henryacores^ 02:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  34. I kinda HATE Penelo and Rikku was the best in FFX-2 Mr_Darkside 17:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  35. Rikku is a million times better than Penelo. Rikku had her annoying moments, but Penelo just flat out sucks!Soren 4ever 16:51, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  36. RIKKU BITCHES -ahem- Yeah, I love her. Yzz 21:27, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  37. Rikku. She's the fastest character that I've seen on any FF game. She'd go two or three times in Penelo's one. SpekzWink 23:21, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  38. Has to be Rikku as she plays a part in the story for more that 5 minutes R-o-b-s-t-a-r 23:53, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  39. I loved Rikku(not as much in 10-2)and i think she is WAY better then PeneloNeoExdeath 23:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  40. Rikku is WAY better than Penelo. At least I used her in my games, unlike Penelo. Destriker73 09:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  41. Vampyro entertaiment 09:31, 9 July 2009 (UTC) Rikku is usefull, she has nice eyes, and there is more then just her happy go lucky style, penelo is just wierd and ugly.
  42. She's more usefull than penello... well a tiny bit- Saraija Merinas
  43. She is an overall better person then Penelo. User:Yuna360
  44. Gokus789 Penelo was boring compared to Rikku. Don't know why people are hating on her for being hyperactive. Its annoying on boys but not girls. I happen to like hyperactive girls because one thing they're not is boring. Besides her outfit in X-2 was HOT
  45. Rikku would absolutely destroy her. I used Penelo for running around in XII, because she wasn't very annoying, and her trousers looked awesome. But yeah, Rikku would kill her faster than Penelo could say "Balthier, help me!"
  46. Cryss Leonhart Temptation to pity vote Penelo aside. I didnt care for XII, I didnt care for Penelo, X was the first game I played so did she honestly have a chance?
  47. Nirvana Phoenix Rikku is my Number 6 fave FF character, Penelo doesn't even come close
  48. Sootheslayer Rikku was the shiz! she is so pretty and spunky! And at least Rikku was useful, very useful actually, Penelo was dead weight and ugly.
  49. Rikku ish Sexy! And in X-2 shes strong. Shame about being weak in X. --Zack fair 007 04:44, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Rikku's got spunk; spunk can go a long way. Penelo's just too vanilla ~an anonymous voter.
  2. Rikku was voiced by Tara Strong. Need to say more?
  3. Rikku is less annoying than penelo, also a better character
  4. Rikku kicks ass :)Best FF girl for personality
  5. As a fan of both, I must say 3 things. 1 Rikku is hotter, and dresses sexier. 2 Rikku's voice acting isn't as annoying as Penelo's. 3. Rikku the typical upbeat blonde, so she rocks, cause she tries to keep everyone happy.
  6. Rikku is vastly superior to Penelo in every way possible.
  7. Rikku is more useful than Penelo and less annoying.
  8. Rikku had a reason to be in her party; protect and try to save her cousin...Penelo was just with the group cos Vaan was and even he had no good reason to go with them all.
  9. This one was hard...I like them both but Rikku had meaning in the game and Penelo was like a backgroud character. so I'm voting for Rikku! ^o^
  10. Anyone willing to dress up like Cait Sith for battle gets a point from me.
  11. Rikku could be a bit annoying sometimes, but Penelo is...useless!
  12. 76.204.144.193 15:26, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  13. Unfortunately I never got to play FFXII so I really don't know Penelo like I do Rikku. Rikku's helped me out of quite a few nasty boss battles with her Mix ability and she's become faster than Tidus. Plus she had her funny moments to keep me laughing at a depressing cut scene, on both FFX and FFX-2. I vote Rikku. Al Bhed Rules!
  14. She actually impacted the plot.
  15. She didn't just "go along for the ride with my boyfriend", she actually did something. 98.115.1.45 23:02, 8 July 2009. Oh yes, can people stop stealing my IP address it's really annoying. Well that's how my Versus XIII vote got deleted... bastards
  16. rikku had a knowledge of technology, great swimmer/blitzball athlete, SUPER FUCKING SEXY, and SHE COULD USE THE MUG ABILITY, try with all penelo's might she will never attack and steal in the same command line. -ghostboy
  17. It felt like Penelo was tacked on instead of Rikku who had a purpose. Rikku even acted on what she thought was the right thing to do as opposed to Penelo who just waited on the side lines.
  18. Rikku would actually do something in the plot and in battle, Penelo did nothing, except languish on the reserve bench and get free LP for doing nothing. Plus Rikku just looked better
  19. You want to compare someone from X to someone from XII? In XII there were only really two characters that mattered to the overall plot. In addition to that, the beginning kind of focused on Vaan. But there was little to nothing on Penelo, Basch and Fran. On the other hand everyone with the exception of Lulu at least had a moment in X. There were a lot of times in XII when I've wondered what they were thinking. -Iago
  20. In FFX any charcter can use any move, but Rikku was special because of "Mix". With "Wings of 9999" she could make her whole team do 9999 DMG with every hit. WOW!

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

As a fan of both these ladies, I'm proud to say that I cannot decide between the two. Penelo is actually a down-to-earth girl who has lost more than her parents and has the guts to keep Vaan in line. As for Rikku, she may be hyper-active but she's actually very protective of her people and her beliefs. Sure, X-2 kinda ruined her but still. I'll decide when the time comes.--Cluna 06 18:18, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not going to vote to the most empty character in the series and in many other RPGs. If were the FFX's Rikku, maybe she would get my vote. But never for the idiot for-fapers character she becomed in FFX-2. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 19:15, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Great. Another one I can't decide. Penelo has great mage stats, and like Vaan I don't hate her like other people inexplicably do. Rikku is one of my favourite "bubbly ditzes" and while she can be annoying, that's usually taken as a given for Nomura's bubbly ditzes. Both are pretty hot, though Rikku is more so. Sure X-2 made Rikku less likeable, but at least it didn't make her less useful like Revenant Wings did to Penelo. But then Penelo is classed as a viera in TA2, which trumps all. This is too difficult... too many conflicting issues... can't make up mind... -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 19:43, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, what the hell. And to anon's vote nº1 for Rikku: Yes, you have to sign. Zak Undersn 20:53, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

You know what I have to say again? No? Then here it is:

"SIT DOWN IN THAT CHAIR AND SIGN YOUR GODDAMN VOTES!"

If you vote and do not sign, anonymous or not (though you anonymous people are the ones who are still showing this problem) then it will not count. So you know how to do it properly, when you are voting, it should look something like this:

# This is an example of a properly signed anonymous vote that will count and therefore not be a total waste of time and effort. ~~~~

When you click Preview, it should look something like this:

  1. This is an example of a properly signed anonymous vote that will count and therefore not be a total waste of time and effort. 1.2.3.4

(the above comment was added by The.DreadnoughT at 23:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC))

well, thanks, since I'm new, I hope you give me a little leeway. SpekzWink 01:10, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh. Well, you did vote properly, anyway; unsigned ones don't seem to be deleted until the fight ends anyway, just in case the voter realizes they forgot to sign at some point. I once did that on the nomination page, and I'll admit it, because I fixed it. But you should be voting as a registered user, not an anony. No big deal, and I'd move it for you but I'm not sure I've the authority to. The.DreadnoughT 03:00, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, this one is a hard one to decide. Penelo has FFXII's battle system, which makes it impossible (or close to) to say that a particular character sucks in battle because it's not their fault, it's yours. Rikku is the better looking of the two, but she was my weakest character in both the games she was in (in all fairness, Penelo is my weakest in FFXII, but not in FFXIIRW), and thiefs aint that good. I'll probably vote after I have thought on it some more.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 00:42, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Dude idk if its a joke or something, but why are you using my name? Xlatinsorax 03:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh what fools you mortals be ^_^  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 15:42, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Although X-2 Rikku was annoying (but not a complete ret con, lelt me emphesize that), she's still a Hell of a lot better than Penelo. Coupled with FFX Rikku, it's no contest.Neo Bahamut 15:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

You may be glad that I decided to be brief, but not completely explanatory in my vote for Rikku. Sure, I could have given a full account of the reasons why I hate Penelo, and why I like Rikku slightly better, but that would have broken the internet. Lets leave it at this. Maybe I'll elaborate on my Userpage someday. The Man In The Black Cape 20:41, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Both of these girls remind me of the Olson Twins. Just saying. Mask no Oni 06:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Nice, I've voted on three losing sides in a row. Bangaa Red Mage 08:25, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Why has Armageddon signed his post with my name(eeven though its in a much larger font, bold, and with caps) ? The Man In The Black Cape 08:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh wait, given that Xlatinsorax sees the same thing, I'm assuming that the name takes that of the user looking at it. That must require hella lotta coding. The Man In The Black Cape 08:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Not really. I used it many times on my userpage; all you need to do is put the following code in:
<span class="insertusername">User</span>
and you get this:
User
The part saying "user" should be replaced with whatever you want it to say for an anonymous (or just not logged in) user. The.DreadnoughT 13:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Interesting. So that's why my username was doing that. I'll have to try that sometime. I still want my own customized signature with a little picture of Kain, but I have no clue how to do so... TheBlueDragoon 03:17, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Its time I gave my comments. Ok, anyone you ask about me who I like more between these two lovely ladies will tell you I have a hell of a time choosing between them. Rikku is the epitome of sexy. Penelo is more reserved and quiet than Rikku, but both girls hold places in my heart. At least Rikku has the purpose in the story. Penelo... not so much. Penelo makes one hell of a fighter and mage. Her stats are fairly well rounded. Why do I like these girls? Simple. Rikku reminds me of my girlfriend, and so does Penelo. Anyway, yeah... Both girls are my favorite. This fight was more unfair than Rydia versus Quistis. TheBlueDragoon 03:05, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Rydia v. Garnet til Alexandros XVII[edit source]

RydiaDS.png
DNC Versus.png
Garnet Til Alexandros XVII character.jpg
WINNER!
TIE
44 to 40 1/2
Two of the series' most beloved summoners from two of the more old-fashioned game. Their peculiar taste in clothing aside, which of these ladies can summon the victory? Q?

Votes for Rydia[edit source]

  1. It's Rydia, the best summoner in the series, versus Garnet, the worse summoner in the series. Also, black magic>white magic. ClixPsi
  2. Does this surprise anyone? Seriously, does my voting for Rydia shock anyone at all? Drake Clawfang 17:09, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. I kinda like both, but at least Rydia has enough MP to summon to begin with, and she also has a voice in a DS version. So cheers.--Cluna 06 18:22, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. I like green hair girls.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 18:29, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  5. Both are lovely & awesome and I like them, but Rydia is Rydia. As a battling character and as a character herself, she is much better than Garnet. BTW, Garnet isn't the worse summoner in the series, Yuna has that title. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 19:08, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. Favorite character from IV. ChaosEsperVII
  7. CookiePinguy 22:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  8. Meh.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 00:34, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  9. Sorry Garnet but Rydia has me WHIPPED! Xlatinsorax 03:49, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  10. Kuzlalala Squee! 04:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  11. Do I really need to say anything. It's Rydia, the ORIGINAL summoner. TheBlueDragoon 05:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  12. I...just don't like royalty. (Reads own vote below) Royalty that don't use crossbows or chainsaws. Bangaa Red Mage 06:27, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  13. i vote for the original, non-generic summoner... plus... green ROCKS!!! AtmaCrisis 07:06, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  14. Wah-TCHH! Yeah, that was my pathetic attempt at whiplash onomatopoeia. Nevanus 09:36, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  15. Rydia is the only Summoner who uses Black Magic, not to mention she's probably the only character that can be both cutest and sexiest since she get to be a child and an adult in the same game.
  16. I never played IX so im picking Rydia. DarkShuyin 13:42, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  17. She has more sass and spunk, plus she wears all-green. She also has truly green hair, unlike Terra. SamSandy 13:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  18. Pikmin Master: Well...I don't really use Garnet that much. My final party choose Eiko ever Garnet. Rydia, however, is (mostly) stuck as a useful party member. 15:31, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  19. Garnet as a character in each and every way annoyed the heck out of me..... not being able to summon at the beginning but teasing you with the option on the list.... her stupid decisions... Rydia on the other hand never annoyed my and do I love her in the DS version of IV! --Roxasxiii 16:17, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  20. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 20:04, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  21. Rydia is my favorite character from IV not to mention I always found her more useful in the game than I did Garnet. When Eiko came along, Garnet was never used. BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 20:53, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  22. She's pretty. She has a whip. End of. The Man In The Black Cape 08:40, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  23. Since I've played neither IV nor IX, I'll go with the original summoner. The.DreadnoughT 14:00, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  24. IV wasn't half bad, and honestly you get to see Rydia grow (literally) throughout the game. [ User: chaosshaun]
  25. I like them both, and though I like IX better than IV, I like Rydia slightly better than Garnet.Soren 4ever 16:53, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  26. Wow, I was just about to say exactly the point of what the vote above me says... >.< Except that I love Rydia and only like Garnet, of course. Yzz 21:30, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  27. Destriker73 01:46, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  28. Rydia is a better then Garnet in every way. Rydia>Garnet. Black Magic>White Magic. Garnet is a loser. KaiserPaladin 07:03, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  29. Rydia is the original and the best summoner... Onionknigh23
  30. Uh.... - +DeadlySlashSword+ 20:47, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  31. Both went through a large change 3/4s through the plot. Rydia's actually did something significant Ningacom 23:53, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  32. As much as Garnet was awesome, she was a bit cliche. FFIV was the first video game I ever played. It's still a hard choice for me though. -Nokareon
  33. 3155
  34. The mage from the best FF game gets my vote. RowdyCMoore
  35. --Maverick King 20:07, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Rydia, hands down. Garnet never stood a chance & in a serious battle i'd rather have Rydia on my side than some naive damsel. Plus Rydia's summons are way cooler. ~anonymous
  2. Garnet, you know I love you babe, but I just can't vote against my Rydia. This was definitely the hardest fight in the DNC to decide upon as I love both of their characters, but like I said I just can't vote against Rydia. She's such a little badass.71.187.79.22 16:29, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. !Viva la Rydia! 121.214.97.134 07:10, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. Rydia is flat out the most dominant and game changing player in the game. There was never a character in any FF games that I relied more on to succeed. And once she got Bahamut, it was truly all over but the crying.SpekzWink 01:07, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  5. Because Garnet sucks and Rydia's summons are strong and have cool scenes in the DS remake. 124.179.241.69 07:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. She's hot in DS fully animated form (Not retarded chibi form)
  7. Rydia was the only classed Summoner that used black magic as well; she wasn't one of those little priestess-esque maidens she had BALLS and could still be a force without her summons.
  8. Garnet is rubbish to me i hated her but rydia is more cool and more powerful!!!!!
  9. I haven't really come to terms with FFIX, but Rydia's helped me alot with her summons, and her black magic makes her force to be reckoned with while most other summoners use white magic. Plus she's pretty cool. I vote Rydia!
  10. This was really tough but then I remembered that few have mentioned (reads vote above while typing) Their secondary ability. In that Rydia wins hands down. IV didn't have a true black mage that stuck with you to the end and Rydia filled that role nicely. Rosa and Cecil had healing covered so Black Magic was a nice compliment to the Summons when I didn't feel like spending that much mp to make her useful in normal battles.
  11. Yeah, this fight is easy as well. Rydia would destroy her. Age is nothing compared to her hilarious ability to summon. Rydia would be puffing on an Odin spell while Garnet would be accidentally casting Esuna because you scrolled down one line too far.

Votes for Garnet[edit source]

  1. ScatheMote 15:38, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  2. I like both. I was introduced to Garnet through IX first. --StragusLore 16:23, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. After a certain point in IV Rydia becomes less cool. At least Garnet can be taken out of your party eventually. Also, She can use Black Magic instead? Big Deal. If she were a Male Summoner Character that would be interesting. Anony
  4. Faethinte audio has never actually understood what's all the hype about Rydia.
  5. The Princess has a more interesting story IMO plus her haircut is much cuter. Hamfruitcake 09 18:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. I like both Rydia and Garnet, but Garnet's character is more developed. Zak Undersn 20:59, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  7. a... --Gamer2127 00:27, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  8. BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|02:05, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  9. Mmm...another fight I feel bad about voting in because I haven't played FFIV yet (next on my list, though). I thought that Garnet was a strong heroine though, so aye. Violet mage
  10. Garnet doesn't need remakes to make her awesome. And besides, Ark pwns... nuff said. CheeseNinja 06:54, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  11. Silver Mage 09:39, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  12. Because she actually has a character and doesn't get all the fame because an old man said that she has someone whipped. FinalAnnihilator 11:49, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  13. Dunno who Rydia is, and Garnets pretty cool Bruntie2 15:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  14. The choice was difficult, so I went with which game I liked better. Silver Dragon XXVIII 17:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  15. Garnet can summon Shiva. Leonhart178 17:21, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  16. Garnet gets my vote, she is maybe the best female heroine of all final fantasy being not to much frail and along with Aeris who can take her own decisions.That said, battle-wise i tend to notice that Garnet is not a regular mage insofar as more than being magically strong she is quite decent on the physical side,regarding strength(towards the end) and especially HP which Rydia totally lacks.Finally Garnet has most of(at least the handy ones:Asura=crap) Rydia's summons whereas Rydia lacks Atomos and Ark Badag 17:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  17. Blykus 18:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  18. I could never get used to Rydia being older after she came back. Garnet's a strong, firm princess that has much more importance, and much more of a personality. --Wee187 18:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  19. Garnet is my favorite female lead, and the image being used in my favorite character render. Her character is the epitome of grace and serenity. 8bit 22:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  20. User:neosamuel Garnet is one of the few princesses I like in any media. So she gets my vote.
  21. I can relate to Garnet more than I can Rydia Poliwirl100 00:59, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  22. I vote Gaernet because I knew her first and I just love the fact that she can be so clueless when acting like a normal girl. - Sencilia
  23. Everyone knows Garnet is THE Summoner. Or White Mage. Or both. Whatever - Henryacores^ 02:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  24. Aint played the FF game that the other one is in so Dagger wins for me Mr_Darkside 17:29, 7 July 2009 (UTC)# This chick's got Ark. And Ark was killer cool too. Mask no Oni 06:10, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  25. FF9 all the wayNeoExdeath 00:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  26. Munk451 I haven't played FF4, so there.
  27. I vote for Garnet, she's far better summoner. Josep --JosepMMS 12:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  28. Vampyro entertaiment 09:38, 9 July 2009 (UTC) Garnets character and story are one of the best in the whole series, and one of the saddest.
  29. I like both. She's losing so... Karu
  30. Ultima 08:20, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
  31. Rinoa leonheart 08:38, 10 July 2009 (UTC)O YA go garnet
  32. FFIX has the bests characters Trindadex 16:58, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
  33. Garnet, she had a much more interesting personality and story than Rydia. MaesterTonberry 17:53, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
  34. Skoot85 just cuz
  35. I like her and IX better- Saraija Merinas
  36. User:Nirvana Phoenix: Garnet has a lot more character development, mostly due to the PSone games having longer scripts. Rydia is probably better Summoner because of Dragon but Garnet goes from crafty yet naive princess to mature woman
  37. BlueHighwind Got a sweet ass.
  38. "Got a sweet ass" <-------This.--Zack fair 007 04:45, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. I vote Garnet. But Rydia was cool too. Even though i think she becomes a bit less interesting once grown up. Garnet is a constantly evolving character, and that's why she gets my vote!
  2. She was cool
  3. I liked Rydia she as hot, but garnet had style and she was useful at the start unlike rydia who was only good near the end. and ClixPsi can suck it.
  4. Garnet rocked :)
  5. Well I never played IV and Garnet Rules!! ^o^
  6. Who the hell is Rydia?
  7. Rydia stroke my heart, but Garnet is a Real Protagonist!
  8. As much as I love Rydia, Garnet is more interesting, with a more interesting story. 206.248.109.31 13:15, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
  9. Garnet has a personality. You know what Rydia has? Stupid clothes!
  10. It's less awkward saying a 16 year old is hot as opposed to a 7 year old who magically became 20. Plus her story was better.
  11. Well seeing as Rydia wen't for being a cute little kid to some real cute chick with a change of system, I think Garnet is cuter.
  12. Best Final Fantasy lead woman.

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

SIGN YOUR GODDAMN VOTES AND THEN DRINK YOUR GODDAMN TEA! Seriously, these damn anonymous voters piss me off! Why waste our time and your own? Ok, now that the rant is out of the way, this was another hard fight to vote on. TheBlueDragoon 03:21, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Well Fae, why do you like Quistis? Drake Clawfang 18:00, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't really know. I think it was a character I kind of related to back when I first played VIII. I've always thought that she did good with what little time she was given before Squall and Rinoa took over. That and I've always liked smart girls with glasses. Faethinte audio 04:38, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Ah, interesting response. Drake Clawfang 05:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Both are over rated. Not voting.--Werefang 19:16, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I shall make teh fanboys butthurt when I say Rydia has about as much importance as a blade of grass. Oh, and she spent her puberty in furryland. —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|02:05, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Yikes, it seems like I pissed off someone. Sorry, but Eiko's the better summoner in FFIX. Since summons need their full-animation to deal full power in IX (which was fairly rare), Dagger's attack summons just didn't have the impact necessary to make up for the MP cost. Eiko, on the other hand, had a full set of White Magic and hade some good support summons. If this was Rydia versus Eiko, then I might go with Eiko due to her being an overall useful character. Plus, at least Rydia didn't have a random silent effect mid-game like Dagger. Just what we need, a mage that can't use magic. ClixPsi

Both Eiko and Garnet are useless if you know how to use blue magic, period. Also, where Garnet loses her speech, Rydia disappears. Zak Undersn 09:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
@Clixpsi: She's lost her voice, but isn't under Silence. She can still use her magic. Besides, whether or not Eiko is better than Garnet is immaterial, as Eiko isn't in this fight. @Zak Undersn, Eiko is one crazy useful bitch with Holy. While Quina's Blu Mag is indeed very useful, only a couple of its spells are actually exceptional, but they don't really match up to Holy -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 10:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
What do you need holy for when your enemies' ass has been raped already? I never missed white/black magic using Quina Zak Undersn 19:19, 6 July 2009 (UTC).
First of all, "rape" + "Quina" within 10 words of each other = very wrong. Secondly, do you mean to say you neglected Vivi? That makes you a heathen -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 22:30, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Technically, they're 24 words apart. I counted. The.DreadnoughT 22:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
...raped —1→ already? —2→ I —3→ never —4→ missed —5→ white/ —6→ black —7→ magic —8→ using —9→ Quina. That's nine, which is as I said, "within ten". Where on Terra did you get 24 from? -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 09:58, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Must have had an idiot-moment. I counted from where you said "Quina" to where ZU mentioned the word "rape"; I didn't bother looking after it, and did not realize ZU had said "Quina" nine words later. The.DreadnoughT 00:11, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Are you talking about Zu? Har har, I'm so funny. Zak Undersn 13:44, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
I did not neglect Vivi. In fact he was the only character (aside from my battling party) for which I bought (and looked for) all weapons and worried to be able to teach him all abilities. I just didn't need him on my party. Zak Undersn 22:40, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
@Clixpsi: Don't worry, you didn't. If you're talking of the "full" battling character, I cannot compare Garnet and Eiko, because I didn't use the blue-haired enough. But if you're talking about only summons, Garnet's much better than Eiko by far (Bahamut!), and at least I didn't have MP problems. Anyway, I don't want to start a Garnet vs a character who isn't in the battle, I simple don't consider Garnet a bad summoner. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 16:06, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, what's so weird about Garnet's outfit? Even if it is a little odd, which I don't think it particularly is, it's nowhere near Rydia's "peculiar taste in clothing" -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 10:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Garnet's clothing can only be called peculiar when she's in Trance, then she gives (aged)Ryd a run for her money. Otherwise her normal attire is no weirder than Cloud's purple pajamas. AnonyMan

where did all of Garnet's votes go? Hamfruitcake 09 09:12, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

It's back now, thank goodness.... CheeseNinja 12:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Edgar Roni Figaro v. Balthier[edit source]

Ff6 edgar.jpg
DNC Versus.png
Balthier-ffxii-render.png
WINNER!
Balthier
49 to 35 1/2
They can charm the ladies with their looks and thrash enemies with a barrage of bullets and bolts. Which of these dashing dons is the true leading man?
Balthier-ffxii-render.png

Votes for Edgar[edit source]

  1. You thought I was going to vote for Balthier. ScatheMote 15:38, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  2. At least he isn't a Han Solo ripoff. --StragusLore 16:23, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. Paraphrasing that last voter. He isn't a LAME Han Solo Ripoff. Nah, Balth is cool, just not that cool he IS from XII after all. Edgar's got him beat in all categories. Besides Sabin>Fran as a related character. AnonyMan
  4. Faethinte audio loves the Figaro Chainsaw massacre guy.
  5. Balthier is the only character I really like from XII, but he's too much stereotypical and Edgar is too much Edgar. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 19:01, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. Why would I vote for Balthier? Zak Undersn 20:57, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  7. CookiePinguy 22:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  8. ......."How old are you?"....... Sorry Balthier but Edgar just stole the show. I always had him in my party while Balthier was eventually replaced by Fran in my party in XII. Plus VI>>>>>>>XII! Xlatinsorax 03:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  9. Chainsaw. CHAINSAW! Also, you could change Edgar's goofy name...not so with Balthier. Besides, I always viewed Edgar as a Drill-toting Archer, and...I like archers. Bangaa Red Mage 06:30, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  10. FF6 bias... AtmaCrisis 07:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  11. Aww... come one now? I never actually saw Balthier flirt random women... ;) FinalAnnihilator 11:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  12. I'm not particularly fond of VI, but it shames me to see that Edgar is losing. He was more useful had more of a point to him.Neo Bahamut 14:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  13. Pikmin Master: Does Balthier wield a chainsaw? I don't think so. Besides, I don't like guns. Edgar, although not as useful or versatile as Balthier (and I usually vote for the versatile choice), I'd go for Edgar. Like others said, Balthier is a lame Han Solo. Edgar, however, is a good Bruce Wayne. 15:34, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  14. Hey! Come on! Edgar just can't lose to this merely stereotypical dude! Edgar is a lot cooler and is a remnant of a lost epoch where the games where beautiful... Ezupio 16:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  15. Blykus 18:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  16. Hmm, sorry Balthier. Might have picked you if I owned XII. Edgar has chainsaws and hockey masks. 8bit 22:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  17. He has a monk for a twin. Need I say more? Poliwirl100 01:00, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  18. Again, FFVI Characters > FFXII Characters. - Henryacores^ 02:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  19. Did I mention how much the earlier FFs own the later ones? 210.24.110.38 15:03, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  20. Dont like Balthier that much coz he took Vaan's spot 2 much so I'll vote foe Edgar instead Mr_Darkside 17:42, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  21. I want Edgar to have my baby. Yzz 21:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  22. Edgar is the real Final Fantasy ladies manNeoExdeath 00:00, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  23. I'll vote for the original... i hate Balthier for stealing the spotlight from Vaan.... OnionKnight23
  24. I hate every single FF after 6 (ok not X) but still im tired of people who are new to the series ignore all FF before 7 i started with 7 and tried all of them before and 6 was the most original of all and edgar is one of my fav. characters take that han so-i mean blathier
  25. Edgar made it to my final party...Balthier didn't. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 20:47, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  26. The only playa in any ff who wasn't a colossal faggotNingacom 23:50, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  27. Cloudiroth The only FF character badass enough to use a chainsaw. Not even Auron was that BA.
  28. I like Balthier too but Edgar is The Gentleman, and he has more sex appeal. Karu
  29. Gotta go with the FFVI guy who makes his own tools RowdyCMoore
  30. User:Nirvana Phoenix Balthier was the best character in XII but his relationship with his father wasn't examined enough, the brotherly relationship in VI was better developed.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. hoo boy, this is a tough call. Both can hold their own in a fight, but ultimately Balthier gets dragged down by the lameness of his allies. Edgar wins! ~anonymous
  2. Oh, c'mon!! Il Signore Edgar Roni Figaro vs THAT?!! And I thought my jokes were bad!
  3. Edgar is quite clearly superior, and from a superior game.
  4. Edgar gets my vote solely for the 'He'd slit his own Mommas throat for a nickel!' line in the SNES XD.
  5. Edgar is simply better than Balthier. That's all. And also, FF6>>FF12.
  6. 164.58.59.30Edgar has many more awesome tools than Balthier, so Edgar all the way!!! User Anonymous
  7. Balthier isn't a bad character, not at all, but if I'm going to vote for Han Solo I'll vote for the original. In any case, Edgar gets my vote because he uses a chainsaw, a chainsaw, in battle. How awesome is that? Not only that, but he hits on a 10 year old, and he does it in such a way that makes you laugh rather than look on in disgust and call him a pedo.71.187.79.22 21:02, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  8. If FFVI would had a protagonist, Edgar would be that protagonist!
  9. Edgar is from FFVI a GOOD Final Fantasy he made the ladies man party member and he uses a chainsaw in battle a chainsaw think about that.
  10. I fail to see the competition. I think the only reason everyone's voting for Balthier is 'cause his game is newer, so more people know him well. Still, Edgar all the way. He's so dedicated to the women, he starts hitting on them even when he's trying to be someone else. :3
  11. Edgar built a castle that can travel under sand. Top that. He even directly opposes the empire instead of running and spared his brother from having to live a life that wouldn't have been of his choosing. Edgar wins.
  12. Edgar is a SON OF A SUBMARINER!!!!!!1111

Votes for Balthier[edit source]

  1. Best part of FFXII. ClixPsi
  2. Ditto that. Drake Clawfang 17:11, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. He was also in my party. Ultima The High Seraph 17:58, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. He has some of the best lines in XII, aside from Basch.--Cluna 06 18:12, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  5. I vote for the leading man.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 18:29, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. Balthier has something more substantial about him in a game where the characters were mostly forgettable. plus if it were a fight he'd surely win. Hamfruitcake 09 18:40, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  7. Much as I do think Edgar is great, I like the Leading Man more. But why isn't he wearing his hat? -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 19:43, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  8. Really? He's a sky pirate. ChaosEsperVII
  9. pattern. --Gamer2127 00:27, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  10. What the heck does Edgar fight with again?  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 00:33, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  11. BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|02:05, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  12. I love both of them to pieces, but I love Balthier more. Sorry Edgar :(. I'm a sucker for Gideon Emery's sweet, sweet accent. Violet mage
  13. I'm voting for this guy, especially if his hair reminds me of someone at his game (chuckles) Kuzlalala Squee! 04:15, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  14. Because this one doesnt need to try to get he chicks. Leon5550 05:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  15. I vote for the leading man, who else? TheBlueDragoon 05:47, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  16. Sabin > Balthier > Edgar CheeseNinja 06:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  17. I liked Edgar, but he wasn't the leading man. Nevanus 09:39, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  18. It's Balthier.Silver Mage 09:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  19. Im going with the leading man because i barely use Edgar and Balthier was always the most high level in my party DarkShuyin 13:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  20. How can I not vote for my precious leading man?! He's hot, he's smooth, and he's as dandy as can be. Just the guy for me. ;) SamSandy 13:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  21. I vote for dude with gun Bruntie2 15:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  22. No contest. Silver Dragon XXVIII
  23. while playing XII, my pary had to have Baltheir in it. he's just awesome! Leonhart178 17:22, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  24. Balthier is amazing, and is from FFXII. Edgar is mildly okay, and is from FFVI. FFXII>FFVI, so of course Balthier wins. --Wee187 18:48, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  25. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 20:04, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  26. I'm not a fan of either but I prefer XII to VI. BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 20:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  27. Neither am I particularly a fan of either (Edgar and Balthier, rather than the games themselves, that is) but when it comes down to "Semi-Dragoon versus Semi-Gunner" the one with the gun is the one I vote for. Also, Balthier had a few more good lines than did Edgar, though I'm afraid the jury might still be out on that one. The.DreadnoughT 22:41, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  28. User:Neosamuel Anything is better then the crap from Overated Fantasy VI, But that dosn't mean much sence Balthier is an awesome guy anyway.
  29. Balthier's just cool like that. JohnnyC
  30. Edgar's cool, but Balthier IS the leading man. Plus he saved Final Fantasy XII from being the worst game in the series for me. Soren 4ever 17:00, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  31. Balthier is one of the best FF characters Destriker73 01:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  32. Balthier is stronger then Edgar in every way. KaiserPaladin 07:14, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  33. A world in which Balthier did not prevail would be a world without reason. The Man In The Black Cape 19:20, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
  34. Vampyro entertaiment 09:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC) he is the leading man!, and he's a pimp!
  35. As much as I love FFVI and Edgar... Balthier's Balthier. -Nokareon
  36. Dont know much about the other guy, seeing as I still haven't played FFVI, but, hey, Balthier was one of the few characters in FFXII that I actually liked, mainly because everything he said was quote worthy. Jamiemitsu 19:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
  37. Rinoa leonheart 08:39, 10 July 2009 (UTC)O YA go balthier
  38. He's the leading man... Trindadex 17:01, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
  39. He's got way better lines, and sex appeal- Saraija Merinas
  40. Ltfabretti Rules 15:56, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
  41. BlueHighwind Got a sweet ass.
  42. Coolest XII character. Shame he isn't in dissidia. --Zack fair 007 04:46, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Who wouldn't want the leading man on their side? "Riven" 89.195.66.70 16:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  2. Easily the best character in XII
  3. Final Fantasy VI is my favorite game, and Edgar is one of my favorite characters of that game. However, it's just...it's Balthier! I don't know what else to say. Balthier would be able to pick up ANY woman with his suave demeanor and slick speech. Plus, he's the leading man. Sorry, Edgar. You've been outclassed.74.99.10.238 19:45, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. It's so hard to decide, but I'm going to have to side with the leading man, opposed to a man amongst many.SpekzWink 01:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
  5. Balthier is the best character in FFXII 124.179.241.69 11:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
  6. Balthier is the leading man. Seriously, he's a suave as Frank Sinatra, and has an awesome accent
  7. Balthier is, has, and always will be the leading man.
  8. He's obvioudly the leading man here.
  9. Balthier is a badass person who is a good "Leading Man"
  10. this vote goes to the underlying leading man. Final Fantasy Han solo ftw 173.50.0.132 23:41, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
  11. Balthier's got more personality and charisma, and he's much cooler. 206.248.109.31 13:11, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
  12. Balthier was one of the best characters in FFXII. 'The Leading Man' wins this.
  13. Both Edgar and Baltheir were charming and cool, and both could potentialy learn every move and max every stat. But Baltheir has more. Blatheir uses every weapon, and his default weapon is the most practical weapon on earth. Edgar had a chainsaw, a crossbow, a gasblaster and a drill...and yet he didn't know how to use a gun. Thats just stupid.
  14. SORRY ABOUT THE ANONYMOUS VOTING! Balthier was (let's face it) the main character of FFXII. He was suave, had an amazing accent, was slick, and could use every weapon under the sun. You throw Cloud's Buster Sword at him and he'll start wielding that b*tch!

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Is there a reason there's an anonymous vote in the user's box? TheBlueDragoon 03:22, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

You mean Edgar's vote number 24? No clue why it's there; maybe a registered user forgot to sign? The.DreadnoughT 13:33, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
I didn't even notice that one. I was talking about one further up. TheBlueDragoon 16:33, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Am I the only one who doesn't see any similarity to Han Solo in Balthier.--Werefang 02:19, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

No I'm not seeing the link either I have to admit. Rivenous 04:25, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
You must be blind. The Star Wars subtext is written all over him and Fran. SamSandy 13:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
And there I was thinking I had perfect 20x20 vision, but despite your protests I still don't see it... Besides Fran's a darn sight better looking then Chewy. Rivenous 16:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
The only thing in common between them is the ship. Cid Highwind is more a Han Solo rip off than Balthier.--Werefang 17:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Sky/Space pirates wanted by the empire. They own a goddamnly fast air/spaceship. They are two pairs of an human and a being of another race, beings which don't like the company of others except for their companion. Both Balthier and Han Solo are the leading man and are attracted by the princess wanted by the empire who rejects him. Holy fuck, and Cid Highwind is just a middle aged retired pilot who never got to fulfill his dream, no hybrid companion, no love interests, no pwning airship owned since before you know him. Seriously, do people play with tons patches put on their eyes (and minds)? Zak Undersn 20:47, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Han Solo is an uncultured slob. He is not a pirate. He is wanted by a mafia boss, not the empire. Han Solo was never associated with the empire until he joined up with the rebels. Sure, there are slight similarities but you can find those anywhere if you look hard enough.--Werefang 22:42, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
WRONG! Han Solo was a former Imperial TIE pilot. (Coincidentally, the reason the "mafia boss" wanted him was a dumped cargo which cost the dumb, fat slug a bunch of money. The cargo was dumped because the Millenium Falcon was about to be boarded by the Empire and Han Solo couldn't hide the cargo anywhere.) But let's not get into an argument about Star Wars on a Final Fantasy wiki, okay? Wookiepedia is a better place for that. The.DreadnoughT 22:58, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree we shouldn't turn this into a Star Wars debate, but apart from the fact that they own a ship and are a team of two I'm not seeing it, and neither teams of two nor airships are exactly uncommon. Yes they are wanted by the empire but so is the whole team it's hardly exclusive to them. Not once do they say they don't like the company of others in fact when Penelo is in danger they are willing to help despite there being little to no personal gain for them whatsoever, and Balthier is never attracted by the princess, he sees her mainly as a path to quick cash and she sees him as a necessary evil, they are actually quite open about their general dislike/distrust for one another and their motives. The similarities as far as I can see are passing and coincidental at best. Rivenous 01:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Now if you want similarities you should see they guy signing with my name only with larger letters. Rivenous 02:31, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
He's not signing your name. His signature-template just happens to be using the <username> template. The.DreadnoughT 02:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I did not mean I think Balthier and Fran are direct copies of Han and Chewie, hence why I said it's in the subtext. Some of you guys just seem to be in complete denial about this SW references in FF issue. It's still there, though, no matter how you twist it. ;) SamSandy 11:43, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Sometimes they like hiding the references: Vicks. The.DreadnoughT 14:02, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh Cool, I just thought it was glitch or something... My laptop has been playing up lately. And I'm not dismissing the Star Wars references of course they are there. Biggs and Wedge are perfect examples. But Sometimes people put far to much emphasis on them. For example the basic story behind Star Wars is that of the rebels struggling against the empire, or a smaller group fighting a much larger force. Then take FFI a small group taking on four fiends with the power to destroy the earth. FFII, the rebels against the empire. FFIV, Cecil's group against the kingdom of Baron. FFVI, The Returners against The Empire... All I'm saying is that quite a lot of the similarities people bring up in regards to FFXII are similar to Star Wars but it's less to do with Star Wars itself and more to do with the fact that there are reccuring themes in the whole fantasy genre. Rivenous 20:22, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


It took me a while, but I just realized that I suggested this fight! I can't believe it made it through! I would have picked Bathier if it wasn't for the fact that he was the ONLY character that was worthwhile in XII. Edgar was great, but it was made even greater with his connection to everyone else *cough*Sabin*cough*! By the way, I think I might start a fanboy brawl with my vote.... Xlatinsorax 03:47, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

And don't forget that there has always been references to Star Wars in FF.
I agree, but FFXII is in another level. It's just a remake of Star Wars that takes place on Ivalice. Of course I'm exaggerating, but you get the point. Zak Undersn 19:22, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Heehee. A fight where my disdain for XII gets to come out twice. Although I haven't gotten far with Edgar (I REALLY hope there's more to him than "King siding with the Returners,") like I said, there was a POINT to him. And he was useful, with tools that could hit all enemies, & the chainsaw. Balthier seems to just tag along so Vaan & co. can listen to his snarky lines.Neo Bahamut 14:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm just curious, but how the hell did my username end up in larger letters, and it wasm't my post to begin with? TheBlueDragoon 03:39, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm seeing the same thing... only my original vote is higher up... Hamfruitcake 09 09:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I serioulsy can't stop laughing, all your reactions are so funny. Shame they gave me a test and made me change it.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 13:12, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
It was the most creative use of <span class="insertusername"> I've ever seen, and I used that code many times. Who made you change it? Its funny as hell. The.DreadnoughT 14:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Mostly ScatheMote, but a lot of people were angry about it.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 15:04, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh, so thats what the hell it was. I thought either my computer or the Wiki itself was glitched. TheBlueDragoon 03:13, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for the way I reacted before. In retrospect, it WAS pretty funny! Xlatinsorax 03:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, a lot of people seem to have fallen for it, which is always a plus.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 23:55, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
You got me too. It was a good joke. Well played. TheBlueDragoon 05:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 13:54, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

As much as the "Balthierfapfapfapfapfap" mentality is annoying me, I have to note that Edgar is not the only FF character to use a chainsaw. Vincent's Hellmasker Limit Break. Both also wear hockey masks, oddly enough.Neo Bahamut 23:04, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


Week 124: Garland v. The Emperor[edit source]

Garland psp.png
DNC Versus.png
Emperor psp.png
WINNER!
Garland
43 1/2 to 33 1/2
Before they were sta... ultra-villains, which of these ancient foes would emerge victorious, and by ancient... I do mean I and II.
Garland psp.png

Votes for Garland[edit source]

  1. He somehow manipulated time to turn himself into a demon. I may not know much about the older FF games, but I'm sold.Neo Bahamut 04:56, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. Garland got a huge sword and he's Chaos.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 05:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. FFII is my least favorite game...easy decision...BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 05:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. Garland has my vote for being both the first boss and first final boss in the series. You just can't beat a guy who screws with time just to become a demon. TheBlueDragoon 05:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  5. When was the last time Mateus knocked anyone down? Thought so. Drake Clawfang 05:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  6. Garland can knock anyone down! And what's Mateus most famous for? Easy. UBOAR!!! --Cluna 06 06:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  7. I dont know what's the fight's about, but I see Garland zapping/pointing at the Emperor who seems to be running like a chick on fire. I'm voting for The Zapper. Leon5550 07:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  8. Destriker73 07:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  9. What is it that makes a game... the game's villain... you don't even know that its Garland behind everything until the very end, which is where he turns himself into a codpiece wearing demon that can and will '...knock you all down!'Hydronisa
  10. The irony is, it's your fault he got his power. Because you almost killed him, the fiends sent him back in time so that he could get the power to send them forward in time.--Werefang 11:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  11. Just listen to his first line in this [1], his Dissidia voice alone is the reason I'm voting for him.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 12:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  12. BlueHighwind : I vote for the one with the cooler hat.
  13. Another evil Emperor vs. the man who can knock you all down?! I don't think so.Immune to stop 14:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  14. Vampyro entertaiment 14:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC) He wears an evil armor, he has a sword that is a whip and a axe and everything in the between, he sounds evil, he messed with time before ultimecia was even born and most importantly: The emperor? I, Garland will knock you down!
  15. Garland's a legend! Plus the Emperor looks like a girl! Jeppo (Talk)
  16. Sword-chucks, yo. —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|15:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  17. Knight beats mage .User:clvabl
  18. He will knock you...eh, whatever. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 16:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  19. I just like himThe6thangel 17:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  20. Rinoa leonheart 19:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)"hes older FF WOW good luck O YA
  21. Both of them had about the same affect on me, so I'll cast my vote for the game's original villain. JohnnyC
  22. GA-RAN-DO! Garland looks WAY cooler. --Zack fair 007 20:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  23. never played II - D - E - R - U - M -
  24. Garland was the first boss and villian, and he was a better villain than "The Emperor" User:Copario
  25. Bruntie2 15:38, 27 June 2009 (UTC) The Emporer never seemed very frightening...
  26. FinalAnnihilator 16:49, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
  27. Come on, its Garland. Who else has the power to "Knock you all down". Certainly not Emperor Mateus.User:Terra Branford
  28. He, Garland, will knock the Emperor down! Silver Dragon XXVIII 21:17, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
  29. For the voice(s)! And the AWESOME SWORD!! 1stclasswarrior 23:43, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
  30. Because Garland is not GHEY. Silas Harvey
  31. Well I'm not sure but I'm not seeing Mateus knock anyone down like Garland has. User:NoctisoftheNight
  32. I Don't know either of these two villians well so I'm choosing Garland as he he has an awesome looking cape FinalFantasyAerith
  33. This isnt even a contest...ff2 had more of a plot...but it just didnt do it for me... User:Maze guy, the creator
  34. Kuzlalala Squee! 13:43, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
  35. Easy pick, Garland was the first and the best... up untill FF4 atleast. Neosamuel
  36. He can cook, Summon, Lead, Morph, Kidnap, Time Travel, Scheme, and even sail poorly. I think the jack of all trades could take over hell if he wanted to, but he just never got to it. --Gerdat14 21:09, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
  37. Mmm...dunno if I should vote in this fight, since I haven't played FFI or FFII yet. But Garland looks like he can kick my ass, so aye. Violet mage 21:37, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
  38. MechaUltimaZero 21:42, 28 June 2009 (UTC) I, MechaUltimaZero, shall knock you all down and f**k you up!!!
  39. Number 1, he has many more appearances than the Emperor, and is always kick-ass. Number 2, he goes from the weakest boss you face to the embodiment of evil itself. COME ON!! P.S. His voice for English Dissidia just takes the cake! Xlatinsorax 03:45, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
  40. HE, GARLAND WILL KNOCK YOU DOWN. Seriously, he can use magic AND wield a huge sword, and when I mean huge, it's bigger than Cloud Strife's. Had a more vicious plot up his sleeve, and sells his soul to darkness? That's who I would want to knock down. Mask no Oni 23:35, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
  41. It's Garland, how could I not vote for him? Even if the emperor has more of a personality, it reminds me of Star Wars far too much xD Garland is just classic, he is THE classic villain. Yzz 12:00, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
  42. R-o-b-s-t-a-r

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Garland's classic... plus I'm pretty sure Garland would destroy the Emperor in a fight. 206.248.109.31 02:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. Garland is so great he started all of the final fantasy series and all of the villans are based off of him 206.248.109.31 12:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. Garland because he will knock you down #72.23.69.192 09:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Votes for the Emperor[edit source]

  1. I would sacrifice my rights to have someone as badass as Mateus as Emperor. Eric Ryan Jones 04:47, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. I like Garland, but Mateus is just more of a badass. He died, went to hell, and TOOK OVER. User:Nevanus 08:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. I have to vote for the guy who nearly conquered the world, then used his death as an excuse to conquer both heaven and hell. He's got some good lines too.--Otherarrow 09:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. FFII was better IMO and Emperor had more lines. - ロル Lol Cakes オケス 09:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  5. Garland's cool in theory, but the original game does little with him (Dissidia expands him). However, the Emperor was pretty badass to begin with, and the GBA remake made him even better. Sure, he's got a huge weak spot, but Mateus still looks threatening in with that eye liner. ClixPsi
  6. Im not a fan of bad guys wearing masks and armour Mr_Darkside 10:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  7. He was able to summon demons from hell, without supernatural powers!!! Silver Mage 10:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  8. Voting for Mateus Dachimotsu7734 10:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  9. The Emperor gets my vote for his dashing looks as well as his awesome angelic form in Soul of Rebirth.SamSandy 10:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  10. Garland was never all that interesting to begin with. Mateus was awesome from the start, he did massive amounts of damage and he took over hell. I also prefer II over I for it's story.--StragusLore 12:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  11. UBOAAAAAAAAAAR! - Henryacores^ 12:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  12. Is this "Garland" an Emperor? I think not. The.DreadnoughT 13:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  13. ScatheMote 13:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  14. As awesome as Garland is, he never actually knocked anyone down. The Emperor, on the other hand, although looking like a camp David Bowie, can lay traps in Dissidia, and becomes the supreme ruler of hell. instant win, even though I haven't played II. Yet. Jamiemitsu 14:19, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  15. Because I've really wanted to make the joke "Im in ur well, poizning ur Wyverns." Plus he had a nice straight forward plan. Garland's time loop still confuses me a bit.--Muchomas35 14:24, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  16. His deathcry Ubooooaarrr!!! alone makes him awesome!! The best version so far is in Shade Impulse 42 - 51!!! ahahaha... OnionKnight23
  17. I love Mucho's comment. Both are good villains, elaborate ruses and all that, but the Emperor's Hell/Heaven splitting was ingenious. His battle sprite and quotes as the Light Emperor is what makes him better than Garland, for me: If you will not have eternal life, I will give you eternal suffering! 8bit 15:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  18. Garland has a whole lotta history implied but does bugger all in the game. The Emperor DOES stuff, evil stuff. Nirvana Phoenix
  19. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 17:39, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  20. It's even, so i'm throwing it to the Emperor because he was technically more badass being a threat through the game. Hamfruitcake 09 19:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  21. I found the fight against Emperor more challenging, althought I do like FFI more than FFII... So he is getting my vote. MMLN メーマウリアン 20:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  22. I'm with Mateus, maybe because he actually knocked someone down. Maybe because UBOAR reminds me of Yume Nikki. Maybe because he's manly even wearing heels. Don't know the exact reason, but I'm with him. Forgive me, Garland. Zak Undersn 20:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  23. My vote goes to The Fashionable Emperor. Karu
  24. Oh, come on. Garland is to Palamecia as Farrah Faucet's death is to Michael Jackson's. Oops. Was that too soon, America? --Tacochickenwings 16:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
  25. Maybe Garland made some sort of grand entrance in the realms of villains by being the first villain of the FF saga and the first one to play with time (and thus being the first one to make players realize that all their hard work leveling and such served for absolutely nothing). But the Emperor was a the first true villain, he didn't want to just conquer one kingdom or cheat death, he wanted everything, he basically even wanted to die just to take over Heaven and Hell. That guy's greediness in man form. Plus Kefka took after him in basically everything (and improving it but still the bases were from Palamecia) which also adds points to the Emperor. Despite the UBOAR and the general dislike I've for FFII.Celythia
  26. i dont know whats with the sprite, it looks deform so thats one point and 2nd point for it is a FF2 character.GRIEVER POWER 11:46, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
  27. Blykus 20:11, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
  28. I would have to go with Mateus. He was the first villan to have a personality, albeit one of the utmost cruelty, malice, and calculation, which culminated into an arcane desire for mastery of not just Earth, but the afterlife as well. Much better than Garland's malpropism. ApatheticAngel
  29. I love both of them, but i will vote The Emperor, such underrated villain on such underrated game. CookiePinguy 08:40, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
  30. Gamewise, FF1 clearly wins. Villainwise, Mateus beats Garland for being a crazy megalomaniac and a killer. - User:Aquamarine39


Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Ooh, this one's a bit of a tough one. On the one hand, Garland gained the powers of Chaos and made a time loop that caused him to become effectively immortal. On the other hand, Emperor Mateus died, went to Hell, apparently booted the previous head out, and unleashed Hell on Earth (or whatever the world would be called). I'm going with the Emperor on this one because while he may not have been technically immortal, he certainly had more potential to destroy the world if left alone. Garland was stuck in that time loop and really couldn't do a damn thing about it besides run through the process again and again and again...173.50.0.39 18:44, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. Emperor is much stronger than Garland. 124.179.241.69 06:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. Sure, Garland is the first Final Fantasy villain, but he doesn't accomplish much more than creating some time loop. The Emperor on the other hand, plunges the world into darkness. He expands his empire, killing all those who oppose him. He wipes out several towns in his mad bid for power. And he takes over Hell. Come on now. You can't get much more badass than that. Plus, he is downright evil to the core, as even his "good" side, is as evil as his bad side, just much more manipulative.96.242.165.2 00:21, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. Mateus is what Kefka wants to be when he grow up. He did everything Kefka did, but unlike the overrated-clown, he didn't stop at dead. He continued conquering, and took over Hell and Heaven! Everyone who likes the clown, should be voting on the Emperor.189.32.113.202
  5. Cause he's got the looks xDD 84.226.108.176 13:32, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
  6. 74.72.39.163 02:42, 30 June 2009 (UTC)The Emperor can take over hell and heaven single handed, while all Garland did was create a Time Paradox to get Chaos in him...Making Chaos basically looking like Ultimecia...So that's why my vote goes to the Ruler of the Palamecian Empire.
  7. A man who can take over Heaven, Hell and Earth too for the most part, all whilst wearing heels deserves respect! Besides, I think the world could do with a few less "Knock you all down" comments. "Riven" 89.195.147.91 02:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Meh. Still not very interested in this fight, but at least it was easy to pick which one to vote for.Neo Bahamut 04:56, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I know what you mean Neo. But at least its a good fight to sit and watch. TheBlueDragoon 05:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I guess, but I can't participate as much in discussion...the good kind. Although, it just occured to me to wonder: What do they do with Garland in Dissidia? They obviously can't have him becoming Chaos.Neo Bahamut 10:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I wondered the same thing. I didn't really follow Dissidia too much yet, as far as story goes. I wanted to be surprised, but you do make a good point. TheBlueDragoon 18:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Garland is just Garland and Chaos is a separate being. The best game to compare it to is actually Nintendo's Super Smash Bros.; a massive marketing gimmick with everyones "favorite FF characters". It's basically an excuse plot and can't be taken as canon, anyway.--Werefang 23:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I think the comparison of Dissidia and SSB has been cliched. Its a very accurate comparison, and we all know its not canon, but its so cliche. Anyway, point is, we all know that in Dissidia Garland and Chaos are two separate entities. TheBlueDragoon 00:27, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Are you sure? ;P They preety much say that they are the same. "You and me are the same" and "We share the same destiny" and of course their FFI roots. Time paradoxes is nothing new in fiction. CookiePinguy 08:45, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Don't know them "in game" so I'm not going to vote, but at least both are interesting characters. And well, I don't like so much the newer games, so I enjoy seeing battles between old games. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 14:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I got a funny joke..."UBOAR!!!"- Emperor, knowing he is going to lose against Garland in this DNC fight. 'Nuff said. --Cluna 06 06:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I just knew, that you will pull a "UBOAR!!!" joke in this fight.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 06:54, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

You Spoony Bard! TomServo101 07:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

You should've called this fight: "I, Garland, will knock you all down!" vs. "OBOAR!" and have people vote on what's the cheesiest of the two! Jeppo (Talk) 14:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't really know who to vote for. The one made his way into the past to send the Four Fiends into the future, wo will grant himself the power to travel back in time to send them to the future to grant himself etc., and the other died and took over Heaven&Hell. They are just too freaking awesome. If the votes were a bit more reasonable this would be fun to watch.Zak Undersn 15:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm noticing a lot of unsigned anonymous votes again. Do we need another reminded? Please sign your votes with four tildes. TheBlueDragoon 23:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

One, used the help of 4 demons to create a time-loop that doesn't make sense. The other, destroyed the world and took over Hell and Heaven. Wow, that was "hard" to decide.

But the former made the latter his bitch in Dissidia. CheeseNinja 03:25, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Although i prefer Garland to most of the other villians thanks to 8-bit Theater, the Emperor did do a lot more than garland and really qualifies as the better villian. Also, DO THE ALREADY SCHEDULED FIGHTS EVEN COUNT ANYMORE?!?!?! --Gerdat14 21:13, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Clearly, not. I lost faith on the suggestions and rules last week. Zak Undersn 19:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

God bless BlueHighwind, for quite possibly the simplest voting requirement of all time. MechaUltimaZero 21:43, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow, Garland is kicking some ass. Maybe I should have voted for the Emperor.... TheBlueDragoon 05:51, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Lots of people seem to forget the difference between saying something and doing something. That's funny, huh. Zak Undersn 09:33, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

The quote that launched Forty Five Votes...He was all talk and no business, but I guess it was all, as people say, "For the lulz,". 74.72.39.163 02:50, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually...it's only forty-two votes at the moment; unsigned votes don't count. The.DreadnoughT 16:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Ya know, this fight can easily be settled by playing a Garland vs Emperor round in Dissidia: Final Fantasy... --76.105.192.47 10:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

It's not a Dissidia contest. You know? Zak Undersn 12:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry to be an ass, but that was a foolish comment to make. TheBlueDragoon 21:09, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
What a pity :) Zak Undersn 09:17, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
That wasn't directed at you Zak. It was to the anonymous comment. TheBlueDragoon 16:49, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Fuck you, o my paranoia. *shakes fist* Zak Undersn 20:11, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Week 123: XIII v. Versus XIII[edit source]

MeriStation FF13preview big2pe.jpg
DNC Versus.png
Noctis VersusXIII-swordstab.jpg
WINNER!
FFXIII
43 1/2 vs. 22 1/2
E3, the end all, be all of videogame wizardry has come and gone, and its pretty clear that we've seen what we are to see of these two titles for a little while. As each draws nearer, the question is obvious, which are you anticipating more?
MeriStation FF13preview big2pe.jpg

Votes for Pure Numbers[edit source]

  1. First Vote!!! I prefer main series to anything else. Jeppo (Talk)
  2. Although I'd probably prefer Versus, I only have a 360 so I cannot really look forward to it.--Werefang 22:24, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. XIII will be gorgeous. I <3 Lightning/Snow/Sazh/Oerba. Some of the concept art has captivated me as well. 8bit 22:47, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. I know more about Pure XIII then Versus. Also XIII has a female protagonist.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 23:02, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
  5. JohnnyC
  6. At this very moment, I am much more excited about XIII, but I bet that will change as soon as we get more information leaked about versus :) MMLN メーマウリアン 23:16, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
  7. Definitely XIII. It seems amazing and just as good as FFXII. Versus looks good, but there's too little info and I don't have a PS3, just a 360. Plus, Lightning reminds me of Ashe.Wee187 23:28, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
  8. I prefer something I've actually seen how it looks like than a game shrouded in shadows. What's taking you so long SE? We want a gameplay trailer! - Henryacores^ 23:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
  9. Not even a contest. I don't care about Nomura's directing "abilities." I'm not a fan of the Rule of Cool, and has there been any gameplay shown for Versus? What's to get excite about? On the other hand, FFXIII looks to be getting closer and closer to release, and the gameplay looks a lot of fun. Plus, I want to see what kind of direction they'll take with an "enemy of the world" plot. Overall, this isn't even a contest in my opinion.ClixPsi
  10. XIII's world looks amazingly beautiful not to mention the music is amazing so far. Plus I think the characters are very well designed, though I wish Lebreau should be a main char but probably not. Oh well, Vanille is perfect for me :) Can't wait to play her! BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 01:40, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  11. BlueHighwind : I haven't read what this fight is about, but I'm seeing two faces here. And I guess I'll decide by which pair of lips I more want pressed against mine.
  12. I think XIII looks more interesting than Versus XIII, and the characters look better designed in XIII. Alos, Noctis looks like another Squall (Oh No!) Destriker73 02:52, 21 June 2009 (UTC) 07:42, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  13. FinalAnnihilator 11:04, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  14. BigSlurp I prefer the purity of the mainline series of Final Fantasy. The greatest series of RPGs out there. Hence why I did not like FFXI, cause I don't like the online stuff with no true ending, which probably means I wont like XIV much either cause they are talking about that as an online as well. Versus XIII might be fun, but that will have to be proven when the game actually comes out.
  15. Nevanus I prefer the main series to spinoffs. Not that the spinoffs aren't good in their own right, but they're still just afterthoughts. Besides, a character with emo hair is a few points off of Versus XIII. 14:44, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  16. This game has a guy with an afro housing a small bird in it, the other doesn't. End of. - Paramina 18:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  17. I'm sorry, but what the hell? This fight is so stupid-neither of these games have been released. Whatever. This game looks so freaking awesome that I want to pee my pants, so of course I'll vote for it. P.S. I've always liked Vanilla Ice Cream ...Yummy. Violet mage20:21, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  18. I have always preferred the main series NeoExdeath 05:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  19. I'm definitely looking forward to this game more. It promises a true FF-experience with both traditional elements and new innovations. The world divided into a futuristic side and a primitive side is also very intriguing. All the revealed characters look unique and the plot premesis is mind-boggling as well. Now I really hope the game won't let me down. SamSandy 08:41, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  20. This fight is incredibly inane, but let's face it: in a contest of versus Versus, XIII will win every. SINGLE. TIME. MechaUltimaZero 15:58, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  21. Seeing as how I've been keeping up to tabs on XIII and not Versus, I guess I wanna play it more. But, you know, it's just been too long since a numbered title came out v.v Yzz 16:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  22. Versus looks like its just a ripoff of VII. Not that Lightning is not, but still. Exdeath64 17:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  23. I have this strange feeling Versus will never see the light of day for a long time. ScatheMote 18:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  24. Can't say that I like either more than the other, but I'm going for the game with a actual gameplay trailers, more than two characters named, and the fact that this game is in the main series. Here's to hoping that this game will be just as good as it looked in the demo. :D Xxwater blue pandaxX
  25. Rinoa leonheart 20:19, 19 June 2009 (UTC)" :)
  26. This game looks epic! Wikimaniac jedi master hurculates 01:42, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
  27. Bruntie2 09:57, 20 June 2009 (UTC) I only have an Xbox 360, but I think this game looks better anyway ;)
  28. On the condition it's just as good as XII... Captain Darkblade 17:35, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
  29. Eowynjedi 02:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC) One, Lightning looks kickass. Two, Nomura's running the show on Versus and he's a bad writer. Three... the guy in Versus. His name translates to "Nightlight." Come on.
  30. It pretty much comes down to XIII vs. Versus XIII (THE BRAIN! IT BURNS!) know more about XIII (and lightning for that matter). also, i cant get versus on xbox. so NYAA! (edit: apparently it was XIII vs Versus XIII. need to read as well as look at pretty pictures >.>) --Adonzo 09:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
  31. Cryss Leonhart Haha Other Than The Name Translation Fail About The Other Game. Im Just Gonna Say Id Rather Play The One Coming To 360
  32. Because its comeing out first and its in the main series this gets my vote.R-o-b-s-t-a-r 15:07, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
  33. This one looks cooler, and i think its a terrible idea and a waste of money to make compilation for a game before the actual game even comes out. X-2 was made before people even had enough time to react to X and that turned out to be awful. Gyromite 15:47, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
  34. Maverick Riot: I sort of agree with the one above. I'm sure people will be stunned by this game, and the series, once released, but it could flop. I doubt that. Anyway, I vote here since know more information about this one. The other game looks quite good, but I'm short on information for it really. Not fully fair reason, but I can only go on what I know.
  35. Main Series for me Mr_Darkside 11:23, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  36. Personally, I think this is a really dumb battle since enough is not known about either game for one to be anticipated more than the other...plus there is considerably more info available for FFXIII than Verses XIII. But to totally based on my logic...I'm going to have to say I'm looking foward to seeing FFXIII's release, so I can better understand the other 2 games coming out since they're all in the same world. Heretic Ramza
  37. XIII looks totally amazing, I've only seen FMVs of Versus. XIII looks to be the best FF since X User:Nirvana Phoenix
  38. It's incredibly easy to anticipate this game more than the other, first off it's a main series and they win above all else, plus lightning is an awesome kickass lead. Hamfruitcake 09 18:44, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  39. One word: Lightning. She's the first "Bad ass" protagonist since Squall! Im realy hoping XIII will be a return to form for the main series. If its at least as good as X, i will be happy! Jamiemitsu 18:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
  40. Yes! Lightning is the perfect fusion of Cloud and Squall. Nevertheless, FFVXIII doesn't seem as appealing.
  41. DieKorruption
  42. Well, since XIII is winning anyways...Cluna 06 23:33, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. XIII's characters look awesome! Lightning looks like an awesome main character so yea! 78.148.86.209 22:48, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. 87.80.197.171 08:59, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. Lightning's sexyness, Vanille's cuteness and sexyness, the "Sephiroth-girl's" sexyness, and two lesbian Shivas. Need I say more?189.32.113.202

Votes for Plus Versus[edit source]

  1. Finally a fight worth of my presence, I like dark games and this game seems to be the darkest FF. Plus, Noctis and I share the same hair style and color. --TenzaZangetsu 17 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. Noctis is my dream protagonist come true <3. But release some gameplay screenshots, damn. —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|22:54, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 01:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. Masamune: Two reasons: The first being that there was something deliciously tragic about the latest Versus XIII trailer. The interactions between the two characters coupled with the gloomy setting brought about a very ominous and vulnerable atmosphere. The second reason is less likely to make me sound like a douche: there was no ear-mutilatingly bad voice-acting. Like, "reminiscent of FFX" bad
  5. I vote for this because of the protagonist. Kuzlalala Squee! 04:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  6. Blykus 07:19, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  7. Silver Mage 07:59, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  8. Vampyro entertaiment 09:02, 18 June 2009 (UTC) first of all noctis is hot. hotest of all ff ppl. and his ability is much same with my own character, and versus seems to be even darker then the legendary ff7 so this wins.no matter what.
  9. because i like the promotional videos for this one more. AtmaCrisis 10:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  10. User:9th Judge Gabranth Vesus has a more beautiful design of characters
  11. I'm probably going to like XII more but this looks like something I want to play NOW. Give it a day and my I'll probably change my mind but oh well.Immune to stop 01:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  12. This just looks more interesing, also darker coloring and more realistic looking. Lost-myth
  13. Although I will try out XIII Original for its unique story, I like action adventure RPG games more, and with the story having settings and events alluding off of real life, I like this one a lot more. A Final Fantasy that mated with Devil May Cry with the world of No More Heroes and Killer 7? I'm up for it. Mask no Oni 22:02, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
  14. Noctis reminds me Zack Fair (my all time favourite character)User:The 6th angel
  15. SeKaLoYa 04:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC) Noctis looks like me. Alot. I love his suit.
  16. I'm getting some very 12esque feeling about 13 so I'm especting it to dissapoint and while i think the theme bnehind 13 looks better than versus versus has nomura and its more actionlike also xii has abattle rating system and i bet you need to get 4/5 stars in some battles to do certain sidesquests and while i love video games I am super bad at them but am also a completeist so while versus will most likely be have similar downpoints they are not yet for certain so im going with this one.Jackrandall1 11:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  17. The only characters in 13 who look interesting are Sazh and the Sephiroth looking girl. Versus has Noctis which is a con but the glasses dude looks like he might kill someone so Ningacom 00:30, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
  18. by the looks of things XIII is winning but my vote stays with Versus XIII because it looks dark and much better NocturnisEstra100 00:43, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
  19. I vote versus XIII, Just coz it's loosing atm :| CheeseNinja 07:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
  20. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. For some reason I seem to be more excited about this game. Not sure if it's the style of the game or the the fact that it is still a PS3 exclusive (YAY! PS3), but I seem to be a little more excited about this one. 206.248.109.31 23:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. Versus XIII just seems more badass to me. XIII also seems to be going towards a XII style battle system, and I hated XII's battle system. 76.234.96.44 01:21, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. Definitely Versus. The character designs are far better, not to mention Noctis is a badass to rival any classic FF character. This is a game that anyone can be excited about. The new sense of realism, the violence, the intense action. What's not to love? 173.53.173.62 2:42, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. I do like both of them and can't wait to get my paws on them, but Versus gets my vote because it's dark. From my point of view, this is more than enough to win xD 89.217.41.207 20:44, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
  5. Finally someone's brought this one up...we should do one with Agito. I like the dark feel. Suits me better.114.41.113.227 04:18, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

What the hell? I posted an idea for 2 games against each other...and it was declined Because the games weren't released. --Zack fair 007 18:53, 23 June 2009 (UTC) Most. Stupidestest. Fight. Ever. Zak Undersn 22:35, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 17:03, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
[Citation needed]. The.DreadnoughT 02:18, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
For once, I agree with this guy. Well...maybe not the exact words, but yeah, this is stupid, & if you think about it for more than 2 seconds, you realize it's against the rules, anyway, yet it somehow made through. I don't care whether it's, "which has better characters," "which are you more excited about," or whatever. It's STILL a game-versus-game fight. And what the Hell is Versus XIII, anyway?70.211.186.162 23:28, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
It's not against rules because the rules pertain to fights about which game is better. This one is more about which one would you be more willing to buy if they were to both come out right now.--Werefang 23:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
You guys don't half take these fights seriously. It's only a bit of fun! Geez... Jeppo (Talk) 00:04, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Many, many messages removed

I've archived all of the messages with Diablo's permission. Since no one wants it on a talk page and everyone is sick to death of arguments, they are now located here. Ah, compromises: everyone is equally happy, or at least equally unhappy ;).

Please, let's never have a discussion like that again. As far as I'm concerned, you're both responsible for your actions, as no one is forcing you to reply here or anywhere else. Thank you. — YuanSaluto!Acta 11:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Hugs Yuan.* Thank you...so much.... *Sniffles.* As for personal responsibility, well, let's just say that this was like the War in Iraq: I had every intention of leaving, it was just taking forever to back out of the conversation in a *cough-semi-cough* dignifed manner.Neo Bahamut 11:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Stop acting so self rightious. If you wanted to leave, you should have left. You refused to because of your ego.--Werefang 13:05, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I think you're e-stalking me. I've said that flat out. THAT'S why I'm "acting self-righteous." Regardless, the same logic applies to you. Now, if you're not going to listen to me, why don't you look at what everyone else is saying & STOP FUCKING POKING THE NEO! He's terrible when it comes to feeding the trolls, but that's no excuse for trolling in the first placeNeo Bahamut 04:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Don't... start... again...! -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 14:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, please, don't start again, or tests will be given out. Complaining about the length of your discussion is like an arsonist complaining about the heat. 8bit 15:11, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
The Hell's this about tests? Are they multiple choice? Do they have any short answers or essays?Neo Bahamut 04:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I really like both of them. I can't really decide! Cluna 06 22:55, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
It's not which one you like more, it's which are you more exited about, Zak.--Werefang 22:59, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I thought liking the games and being excited about the games were the same thing...meh, oh well. I am pretty excited about both. I just would really wish VersusXIII would have English voices already. Sorry, but I'm a little impatient. Cluna 06 00:15, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

TA, can we have logo images instead of single protagonists, please? 8bit 23:06, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Another bad fight... TheBlueDragoon 23:08, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Another pointless criticism... 8bit 23:19, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Another good laugh...--Werefang 23:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Another questionable decision, too. (I don't remember seeing this even getting suggested, much less votes counting. But, I don't mean anything, I'm yet again just pointing it out.) The.DreadnoughT 02:18, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm finding it hard to vote in this. I mean #1 they still haven't come out yet. How can you judge something just by the trailers? Was this even in the queued list? Xlatinsorax 03:23, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't even remember seeing this in the list at all. Maybe TacticAngel did this as a kinda spur of the moment thing? Thats my guess anyway.TheBlueDragoon 03:34, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

What the? How can we possibly have this fight, the game's aren't out! Plus, what happened to "no game fights"? -Nokareon

The vote is not which is a better game, which is obvious since there's no way to tell. The question is which game are you more looking forward to. The reason we don't do game versus game fights is because anytime has has been suggested (and its almost always _____ vs. VII) it is just going to turn into a flame war between fanboys. There is a substantial quantity of information and off-topic to go into when you speak of two sixty hour games next to each other which would be brutally ugly. These two titles do not pose that delemna. There is a critical lack of enthusiasm for them, which is counterproductive to our community, I think it would be good for people to talk about them. Plus, there's a nice palindrome going with XIII versus versus XIII. You cannot ignore that. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L
Ok, well that makes more sense. I was wondering why this got chosen over fights that are sitting in the suggestion page. Its to build hype I'm guessing. TheBlueDragoon 05:04, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I abstain from voting, because I'm looking forward to Agito XIII way more than these two. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 04:06, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

It's not as one-sided as I thought it might be. I was expecting XIII to wipe the floor of Verses. Not so it seems. Still, there's a long way to go. Jeppo (Talk) 11:25, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Hell, If they anounce a Versus XIII release for 360 I'm changing my vote. It'd probably be even closer except that most people are not willing to buy an entire system for one game.--Werefang 13:13, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
You'd be surprised how many people are willing to buy new system because only one game :) I was laughing at few friends doing it when i was younger, but later I purchased Wii because of Zelda (only game I own for Wii), PS2 because of Gran Turismo 4. I forked out lot of $$ for new PC just to be able to play Neverwinter Nights 2 (that was almost 4 years ago and after that I purchased only 3 other PC games, so it could be easily said that I purchased PC just to play NWN2). I purchased PSP because of Dissidia (which is still not out :P) and DS just because of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. And as soon as FFXIII will be out, i'll be forking out any price for new PS3 (hopefuly slim one will be already out at that point). But tbh it will not be purchase just for one game, because I plan to buy FFvXIII aswell, and I know there are many people who own Xbox360 already planning to buy PS3, just because they want to play FFvXIII aswell, and they prefer 1 BD over 6 DVDs aswell :P Ofc after getting most of these systems I just gone on purchase spree and got me other games for me and my gf, but initial purchase was always because only 1 game I wanted to play :P MMLN メーマウリアン 18:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Aren't Game fights against the rules? Characters and Stuff i know is allowed but i am sure games were not allowed. just checkin. Leonhart178 00:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Maybe if you read the Peanut Gallery before adding something that has already been said and thenyou may find the answer you seek. Jeppo (Talk) 01:22, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I have only one thing to say about this fight: "What... The... F*ck... !?" -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 18:38, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

People are taking this whole Colosseum thing waaay too seriously. You don't even seem to get what this fight is about. It's impossible to decide which game is better, since no-one has played either of them, but it is very interesting to see which game is more expected and hyped. Naturally FF XIII will win this, but Versus isn't doing that badly either.SamSandy 08:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Um, this is about which game are you more excited about not which is better and, NOW, it is NOT doing good.--Silver Mage 06:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Huh? But that's what I said! :P But you're right, Versus hasn't been gaining many votes since my first comment. Go FF XIII! SamSandy 09:05, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Wait a minute, I thought that we didn't allow these kind of fights in the DNC!?- Saraija Merinas

why does Neo Bahumut always have so much to say on a final fantasy wiki when he hasn't even played the majority of the series? plus his huge chunks of ranting are just nuisances.

Mysteries of the World, my friend. Karu

I agree with you on that, Anonymous poster. It's like, TL;DR, BE REASONABLE, and quit ruining a cool name. Also, XIII Original will most likely win due to it's expanded coverage. I'm just hoping we don't do a Versus XIII vs Agito XIII in the far future, because it'll just end up one sided.Mask no Oni 17:03, 21 June 2009 (UTC) VS because its muh darker as a game based on a daekenned reallity ie. ours Derum

Week 122: Shinryu v. Yiazmat[edit source]

FFDOS Shinryu.PNG
DNC Versus.png
Yiazmat.jpg
WINNER!
Shinryu
35 to 23
Dragons!


Yep, dragons...
FFDOS Shinryu.PNG

Votes for Shinryu[edit source]

  1. Haven't faced either of these bosses. However, XII's idea of an "ultimate boss" is an absurd amount of HP & a ridiculous amount of buffs. Quantity over quality, if you will. Any boss that you can beat by setting up a bunch of gambits & walking away is bullshit. Any boss that takes "over 50 hours" (that's over 2 days, people) to beat is also bullshit, & sounds like a fucking meme. So, I'm going with the proper boss on this one.Neo Bahamut 01:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. Damn! Before I changed my mind I had first vote of all! Oh, well. Anyway, the 50000000+ HP is good, but it's no connection to Ragnarok. The.DreadnoughT 01:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. I actually fought and won against Shinryu. And Shinryu is my second favorite dragon.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 01:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. Terra_Homing 02:02, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  5. Because I actually have the patience and the time to defeat Shinryu. And because I like the original Dragon Superboss. TheBlueDragoon 02:12, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  6. Yiazmat's difficulty only stemmed from the fact that fighting it was very, very, very boring. ScatheMote 02:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  7. I don't like either of these options... I don't like this fight... So, I'll be biased and vote for Shinryu because he didn't appear in XII. I hate basing my decision on that, but oh well. Shinryu appeared in more games than Yiazmat Yzz 02:49, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  8. I really enjoy a fight where I have to focus all my attention on. When I fought Yiazmat, I just set the gambits and occasionally healed and/or revived. Also, Shinryu is the one who appears as a summon in Dissidia, another plus! Shinryu FTW!! Xlatinsorax 12:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  9. I like my super bosses to be difficult, but not beasts with endless HP.ClixPsi
  10. I just like Shinryu more. Sora G. Strife 04:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  11. Because beating Shinryu actually takes skill. (This coming from the guy who beat XII without using gambits...AT ALL.) - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  12. For the easier one. ロル Lol Cakes オケス 05:28, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  13. I really think fighting Yiazmat would be one long fight.Shinryu on the other hand, looks like a decent superbossDestriker73 07:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  14. All I was going to say was already said by NeoBahamut. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 08:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  15. Yizamat was only cool because of HP,Shinryu was cool because was a hard awesome superboss NeoExdeath 09:12, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  16. Yizamat was just a bore Mr_Darkside 12:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  17. Shinryu IS the Dragon GOD CheeseNinja 11:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  18. Who revives the Gods when they die in war? SHINRYU FTW! YamiNoBahamut 13:03, 11 June 2009 (GMT)
  19. Shinryu is just awesome. Can't wait until I get him in Dissidia. User:Guiness Kid
  20. Another difficult one for me chose. Shinryu= has so many different ways to kill your party despite the strategy choosen to kill it...Yiazmat= EXTREMELY annoying and time consuming despite the attack party's maxed levels and ultimate equipment(longest time I've EVER spent fighting one boss, it took me WEEKS)! But the deciding factor for me is that, with Shinryu, you can't just run away, save, and pick up from where you left off the damn thing. It really becomes a race of trying to kill it before it kills you. Heretic Ramza
  21. Thanks for the Ragnarok, Shinryu. Karu
  22. See the Peanut Gallery for my detailed comment -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 16:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  23. Pikmin Master: The first time I saw Shinryu, it was in Dawn of Souls. When I realized that the thing was actually harder in V, I'll just have to say that this dragon actually knows the difference between a hyped-up battle and a pissed-off battle. 02:12, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
  24. DB36 04:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
  25. Let's see. A boss that can take over 24 hours to beat, or a boss that can beat you in less than a second. I've never faught Yiazmat, but the guide was reason enough to NOT vote for it. Besides, Shinryu is one of two original 'OMG Diz Beh tew hurd' superbosses. Yath 13:16, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
  26. Surviving and beating a boss that can annihilate an entire party in a few seconds>Lots of HP and a Bore(Like most of XII. Burn! HO HO! ^^). Though the Mark info was pretty nifty to read. AnonyMan 22:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
  27. What a joke. - Henryacores^ 23:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
  28. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 01:41, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
  29. Vampyro entertaiment 08:49, 13 June 2009 (UTC) Yiazmat is just a looong and booring battle and besides he doesent even look like dragon, shinryu is actually a dragon, its more original and its not a test about how long you can play.
  30. I like fast game... rather than an all day match.... ehehhee... Shinryu is the best!! OnionKnight23
  31. As much as I like both of them, Yiazmat was kind of time wasting. Plus, I got more of an adrenaline rush when I fought Shinryu. MisfitAirship
  32. Shinryu is prolly one of the hardest REAL bosses of any FF game. He was so cool... Hell he came upon the planet via Omegas foot! AND has a bigger, badder version in the GBA port. if anyone tries to say that 24 hours of gameplay against ONE mob is fun, they REALLY need to be admitted to a hospital for laser eye surgery. Shinryu was so much more badass and way more skill/luck based. Plus he's HOLY incarnate. Try to beat that one on a tuesday! --Gerdat14 06:16, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
  33. Shinryu, unlike Yiazmat, is my idea of a real superboss. The only thing that really makes Yiazmat difficult is the amount of time it takes to beat him, whereas you have to really know what you're doing when fighting Shinryu. Nevanus
  34. Yiazmat is only difficult because you deal poor damage and he has tons of HP, like most of the Superbosses in XII, there's no real challenge. Shinryu is hard and can whoops my ass in FFX, and he's toned down from his V incarnation apparently (I'm not that far on V yet) NirvanaPhoenix
  35. I guess since he's winning...Cluna 06 01:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

Votes for Yiazmat[edit source]

  1. First vote for Yiazmat!Xepscern Highwind
  2. 8bit 02:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. Silver Mage 04:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. CHaosEsperVII I enjoyed reading the bestiary entries in XII (yes I have no life). Plus he's the ultimate mark!
  5. Never faced it myself, but the arena where the battle ensues is awe-inspiring, so I reckon the battle is as well.SamSandy 07:32, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  6. First, Yiazmat has a connection to Montblanc. Second, Yiazmat sound like Yzma, Kuzco's arch-enemy! Kuzlalala Squee! 09:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  7. FinalAnnihilator 09:31, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  8. BlueHighwind I'll fight this guy eight times again before I ever even consider stealing all those Spears I needed to beat Neo Shinryu. JESUS!
  9. I nearly had a heart attack when I realized what those cute little squares under his health bar are. Leon5550 12:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  10. What Leon said is so, so true. I'm pretty sure my mouth actually dropped open after realizing what they were. What a fight. Paramina 12:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  11. Shinryu was tough, sure, but Yiazmat basically set an all-time high for a boss' HP (within Final Fantasy for sure, maybe within all gaming). Plus, XII has a lot less exploitable glitch/tricks than V (which make even Shinryu easy). -Nokareon
  12. Shiryuu is old. Time to young dragons win! Do it Yiazmat!!! Final Cannon 18:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  13. Yiazmat has such a ridiculous amount of HP that I can't help but vote for him. Violet mage19:27, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  14. he looks waaaayyy stronger User:The 6th angel
  15. I'm not a fan of doing optional bosses, hence I've never fought either of these but I've seen both in fights and I think Yiazmat is cooler overall BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 21:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  16. User:Genesis rhapsodos Well in response to Neo Bahamut, first off I'd like to see anyone set up the gambits and walk away from the Yiazmat fight, secondly if it tooks you 50 hours you must have been pretty damn weak, so know what you're talking about so you don't seem so pathetic okay? :D Now then I feel like Shinryu wasn't a big enough jump in dfficulty from some of the other big bosses, just my opinion. So my vote goes for Yiazmat the bigger of the beasts. Genesis rhapsodos 23:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  17. I never was able to kill either. But Yizamat made you WORK to be able to kill it, you had to waste every other mark in the game, but with shinryu you just open a chest. Exdeath64 02:18, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
  18. An optional boss exists purely for the challenge of fighting it. As such, Yiazmat gets my vote because it is the only boss that actually grades your success (retreat counter). Beating Shinryu is like beating Halo on Legendary: its hard, but just about everyone has done it.--Werefang 00:03, 13 June 2[009 (UTC)
  19. In fairs I think its the FFXII is crap argument comes to mind. Alas I gave it a "few" hours so ill don them a pity vote. Ive seen larger hps though Cryss Leonhart
  20. Definitely gotta vote for Yiazmat I've currently spent 4 hours fighting it and it still has 2 million HP left, not only that Yiazmat is one of the biggest most badass bosses in the FF series and to top it off the epic FFXII boss theme plays for the fight. Wyvern777 15th June 1009
  21. Seven F***ing hours- Saraija Merinas
  22. Yiazmat was a lot more of a challange than Shinryu...as thus more respect from me Derum
  23. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L supports Yaizmat, homage to the creator of FFT rather than some random dragon, no matter how cool it might be.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Honestly, I like them both, but Yazimat was harder for me to beat. #72.23.69.192 05:32, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. Shinryu's a bitch. 76.234.96.44 00:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

I think this goes without saying, but sign your damn anonymous votes! You're wasting your time if you don't SIGN YOUR DAMN VOTES. I'm not even a moderator and I know this. TheBlueDragoon 02:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I was considering voting for Yiazmat, because Shinryu seems to be almost a water elemental, which is fail. However, reviewing the articles, I forgot just how ridiculous Yiazmat really was. Oh, & don't get me started on its backstory. First of all, I think that NOTHING should have surpassed the Lucavi (Espers in the fucktarded world of FFXII's Ivalice), second of all, "ZOMG! IT DEFIES TEH GODS!" Yeah. Who doesn't in that game?Neo Bahamut 01:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

First of all, voting against Yiazmat because someone else walked away and left it for 50 hours is not an intellegent reason. Gambits are an option, just as being level 100 is. Second, we know you hate 12. You've ranted about that every oportunity you have. We get. Saying "Zomg, tis gmae is suxxor, lol," isn't going to make you sound any more intellegent. Third, "it defies the gods" is a story. There is no proof that gods exist in the world of 12, just like real life. The scions (separate completely from lucavi as the games aren't in the same universe) are said to be fallen gods but do they ever say that they were ousted from the heavens themselves; no. As with real life, no proof exists to prove that any gods exist. So, to answer your question, just about everyone who is important.--Werefang 12:49, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Maybe you should do some research before you run your mouth? FFXII is part of Ivalice Alliance. Specifically, it is the distant prequal of FFT. It is the same universe. You are wrong. Not only that, do you know what makes YOU sound unintelligent? Responding to my points, instead of actually refuting them. I point out how Yiazmat fails as a proper boss. You go, "Well, that's just an OPTION." So? The fact that it's an option is what makes it a bad fighting sytem! The fact that its only advantages are ridiculous shield abilities & HP make it a bad boss. And "Gods" means "Occuria." No, it is NOT a story. Because half the characters OF XII defied the Occuria! I don't say "tis gmae is suxxor," idiot, unlike you, I actually reasoned my way through the vote. I didn't spend an inordinate amount of time declaring that XII sucks, I only called it on the faults that came up. I didn't randomly go on a rant about the license board, because it never came up. For more information of objectivity, you can go to the DNC nomination page,& note that I leave fights with FFXII characters in them alone, & have even APPROVED some. If you're going to try to argue a point with me, use something that ISN'T a half-assed straw man!Neo Bahamut 19:54, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. First of all, I was refering to how you bitched about Yiazmat in your vote and then bitched in the peanut gallery. Don't start spamming everywhere to make sure everyone sees your opinion. Second, by option, I was refering to how you said that gambits made the battle too easy. Gambits were the option. If you want the challange don't use gambits. Third: Whether the superboss can sustain damage or delive massive damage to you isn't the end result the same: Frustration. Isn't the achievement really that you have little enough of a life that you can waste time on an optional boss at all. Another thing: How is XII a prequal without it being refered to on the page? Is that in a copy of Ultimania that no one has? I remind you that unless refered to explicitly as a direct sequal or prequal, they do not actually exist in the same universe. As such, the Scions are not the same as the Lucavi. Perhaps the defying the gods thing was premature. But does that make a game bad? No. Generally, that is a pretty good Idea. And lastly: Quality over quantity. Do you even know what that is supposed to mean? Appearantly not because having a lot of buff is quality while having a bunch of allies is quality.--Werefang 00:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Hey, dumbass, that's what I always do! It isn't spam, what you're doing right NOW is spam. And flaming. But that's not the point. Besides, where do you get off telling me not to divulge my opinion in the manner of my choosing? And arer you seriously using the FF Wiki--A FAN WIKI--as your ultimate source for FF information? Dumbass. Here's how it charts out: FFXII is the "Golden Age" of Ivalice. And it DOES mention Ajora in one of the Clan Primers. FFTA is the recreated Golden Age, done by the Grimoire of some such shit. FFT is the world after the cataclysm, set in a slightly different locale. Balthier explicitly mentions having travelled through time in War of the Lions. And here's a tip: Instead of going premenstrual on me, DO YOUR OWN FUCKING RESEARCH. You're entitled to your own dumbass opinion of whether or not you THINK the Scions are different from the Lucavi, but they aren't. End of subject. If you spam me again with your unnecessary bitching, it will be ignored. And, while you're complaining about my "bitching," remember that YOU started this shit. As to your "arguments" about my reasoning, they're a crock of shit, as usual. "If you don't want to use gambits, don't use gambits!" The flaw is still there, dickhead! The POINT is that there's a FLAW in the system. You don't like that I bitch ab out FFXII? Maybe if FFXII didn't have so many freakin' problems, I wouldn't!Neo Bahamut 00:46, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
The ironic thing is the last time you called me a dumb ass, you told me to look for the information on the wiki. That, good people is the definition of hypocrisy.--Werefang 00:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
No, I told you to "do some research." You're the one who concluded that this meant the Wiki. And if that was a trap to get me to respond to you when I said I wouldn't, ooh, aren't YOU clever?Neo Bahamut 01:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Would you two please stop griping at each other and cease eating up Peanut Gallery space? Take your own advice and ignore each other. kThanksmuchbai <3 8bit 02:20, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
8bit, that wasn't "advice," that was a promise. The only reason I responded was because I hate being misquoted. Otherwise, why on Earth would I need to respond to inane ramblings about posting habits I'm perfectly entitled to?Neo Bahamut 18:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
XII is sequel to Tactics. Says so on the Ivalice page. The Occuria are the gods. The espers and the lucavi are one and the same. The difference is that in Tactics, the lucavi bind themselves to the user's body rather than follow them around. Thats why I think they SE made them look so different in XII. I wish they can explain their war with the Occuria more. Instead of making Revenant Wings and Tactics advance....ChaosEsperVII
And I'm guessing "the Ivalice page" refers to the FF Wiki? The official continuity is that FFXII takes place before FFT. It doesn't make much sense, but it's fairly obvious. "The time of airships." And then, NONE of that stuff exists in FFTA, until you "remake the golden age of Ivalice." And yeah, I hate the way the "story" was executed. I think it should be a prerequisite to learn about Ivalice Alliance if a person wants to bitch about how bad the Compilation of FFVII is. Because it could be SO much worse, yet most people fucking love XII. Quite frankly, I don't think the day will ever come when my most important question is answered: Just what, exactly, did Ultima hope to gain from her rebellion?Neo Bahamut 00:04, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
SERIOUSLY! I hope SE has a reason for making games that are related but unnecessary to some of the titles. Yes I understand they are trying to expand on the world, but I feel that alot of the time they are adding to it rather than enriching it. I don't want to know new things (i.e. Revenant Wings) unless they are expanding on the things I already know (Esper's War with the Occuria). It's good to have a gigantic universe but if its filled with half-shit then it doesn't help to add more shit. ChaosEsperVII
That's why I like the Compilation. It actually adds to the story. Crisis Core: This is what Sephy was like before he went kookoo. Also Zack. Dirge: This is Vincent getting the fuck over everything. AC: This is what happened to everyone. And so on.Neo Bahamut 05:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Cryss Leonhart I was actually ok with watching that argument, partly because I have respect for Neos opnions even if half the time they differ from my own. Alhough this time I could actually agree with him. For the record I did not use gambits when playing FFXII was too easy otherwise. As for the DNC fight at hand honestly couldnt care.

I simply find it aggitating that whenever you bad mouth XII, you resort to features that are optional (games exist to be challenging. If you want it to be harder, do it yourself), inacurate, or hypicritical (if you have a problem with it challenges the gods, how can you like Tactics. That's the goal of the entire game). Perhaps the way that I went about this was wrong but I stand by my possition.--Werefang 16:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
It doesn't MATTER that the features were optional, the fact that you can beat several bosses by literally doing NOTHING is a problem. You shouldn't have to limit yourself just to play the game. You should know how to do the gambit system well, but STILL have challenges that you have to directly interfere in. And the goal of FFT is not to challenge the Gods, it ranges from fighting injustice to rescuing your sister. The problem is that the Lucavi are different in the 2 games. They're more Eastern in XII, but more Western in Tactics. That doesn't sound like a big difference, but if you know a bit about Western religions, when a messenger of God is fallen, they become a demon. That is why, in FFT, the Lucavi are depicted as quite demonic in nature. It's different in XII, where they were going for a more Eastern theme, and therefore just seem like "bad Gods."Neo Bahamut 00:04, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
I think you may be mistaken about the western religion. Most cases they become myth: good for stories, but no one has any faith in them (ie:germanic/norse paganism). I truely and utterly doubt that the Lucavi and Scions are the same thing. Perhaps they share the same underlying concept but the Scions were fallen gods forced into servitude, while Lucavi are fiends bound to gemstones and unable to take form without a vessal. As for gambits, I highly doubt that anyone can truely do nothing and still win: 1) most cases, you cannot get all of the useful gambits until late in the game, 2)tough enemies and bosses do significant damage and can quickly kill off you party if you aren't paying attention, 3) Items and magick are exhaustable, meaning that if you have healing gambits set, you will run out of resourses if the battle lasts longer than half of a day. As for "not limiting yourself," what about T.G.Cid. His skills and stats make him far too powerful and make the game too easy. To counter this, I (and other people) remove him from my party. And what about "Hard mode." It is a feature in many games to provide a challenge where one is absent. It is the same principle really. If it seems easy, the means to create a better challenge exists, so why not take it. If it seems to hard, the means exist to make it easier.--Werefang 01:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Christianity is a Western religion. -_-' In any case, the point is that there's an Eastern theme with the Scions and a Western theme with the Lucavi but they are, in fact, THE SAME THING. They're bound the zodiac, most of them were in both games, they have a similar backstory, they're the same. And there's a difference between an actual flaw in the gameplay and a self-imposed restriction. No matter how powerful Orlandeu is, you still have to control him. And you can believe whatever you want, but people HAVE fought Yiazmat & a large portion of the final battle with JUST gambits.Neo Bahamut 01:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Gambits aren't the flaw, players are. Gambits do absolutley nothing until they are set by the player. They are designed to allow the player to play the game as he/she sees fit. So what if some slob pays $20 to $50 for a game and then refuses to play it, how does that affect you? It was unavoidable for the nature of an AI system is to act in response to a situation. And also, I think you forget about Tactics' tactics, you can set Orlandeu at Berserk and have him level the entire field without input. Why you would want to I don't know, but it's the exact same idea.--Werefang 14:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
It is not the same idea. In berserk, you can't heal, or do much of anything but attack. And the AI system in FFT is not as fine-tuned, either, so it's still not the same as the Gambits, where you can literally set up the characters & walk away. Don't give me this "it's not a flaw," nonsense, it IS a flaw. Especially with bosses where it seems pretty much intended for you to do that. I mean, honestly, who has x # of hours to devote to Yiazmat?Neo Bahamut 21:30, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
No one. That is why you have the option to preform a tactical retreat. You aren't supposed to walk away and leave the fight on. You are supposed to retreat when you cannot fight, so that you can heal or what ever, sort of like a real battle (most "battles" in final fantasy are actually scirmishes). And there are many people who can defeat it in less than that amount of time. As for the "because-you-can-do-something-it-sucks" arguement, humans CAN commit murder, but that doesn't justify sending everyone to jail. And before you call this apples to your oranges, I will point out that this example exercises the same falacy as your argument. And I will close this with the following: Video games exist purely so that WE may challenge OURSELVES. If we find that we are unskilled, we can play on easy or use only gambits. If we find ourselves over skilled, we have the tools to challenge ourselves at our disposal. Do not think that because an AI CAN be efficient, that the most efficient AI has to be used. All there is is our choice.--Werefang 23:51, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
That's not even apples & oranges. And it most definately is not the same as my argument. Bottomline: There are flaws in FFXII's gameplay, & the Yiazmat "battle."Neo Bahamut 00:46, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually, it is identical reasoning. Capacity is not the same as inevitability. Because you can choose to kill some one, you are a killer; because you can choose to make the game easy, the game is too easy. But just as you may choose to not kill, you may also choose to challenge yourself. The arguements have identical frameworks and as one is an obvious falacy, so too must the other. And of course there are flaws, but the ones that you see and are refering to are self induced and are not inherently flaws of the game.--Werefang 02:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
That's nice. Now, -I- feel the need to point out to you that one world is real, & the other is programming. Thusly, they are not the same. I could limit myself to not using magic to make things harder, but that isn't a flaw in the gameplay. Because I'm avoiding using it in the way it's meant to be used. Gambits weren't meant to play the game for you, so the fact that they can be used that way is a flaw. It is, by no means, the BIGGEST flaw, but unless you want to turn the entire Peanut Gallery for this week, & most likely next week into a "Why FFXII sucks" rant, I'd suggest you just leave it alone.Neo Bahamut 04:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Lucavi and scions are the same. Remember when you beat a scion it gets imprisoned in a glyph. I believe that Tactics is a LONG time after XII and the Lucavi probably need a human host because they have been separated from the physical world for a while. Probably reviving Ultima is the way for them to come back. Speculation but it makes sense. ChaosEsperVII
You're always going to have speculation, & none of it's going to make definitive sense. They didn't even try to tie the Ivalice games together.Neo Bahamut 05:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Now your just dodging facts: whether one is real and another is programmed, both are governed by choice. Because people are not meant to kill each other but we can do it, we must all be murderers. And gambit are meant to be used the way you see fit, that includes the ocassionaly abuse of the system. Had they not had the gambit system, people would be bitching about how hard it is to control the entire party, so they gave a system that would make everyone happy. No one anticipated that some pig headed individual would say that freedom is a flaw. So if you try to say that the game suck as a fact, try to use an actual flaw. So what if players can make the game easier for them, that doesn't affect you.--Werefang 12:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
You're. You're, asshole, you're. With that out of the way, this, "You can choose not to do it!" argument is retarded. I can choose not to play the game, & it won't affect me, it doesn't change the fact that there are problems with it. Now, since you LITERALLY asked for it; poorly developed characters, several badly-drawn monsters, bad battle system, imbalanced Limit system, poorly-designed bosses, bad vocals, not-so-great music, shit summons, poor story, poor status as a prequal, flawed area design, not-so-well-avoided random battles, bad ability learning system, not-so-great money system, insufferable fanbase, about the only thing good about this game was the graphics. Take. Your. Pick.Neo Bahamut 02:22, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Most of those are opinions, not facts. XII has the most character developement of the entire franchise according to people smarter than either of us. Those same people praise it for it's complex and intricate story. And it isn't a prequal as the stories are unrelated, whether it is in the same world or not. If your arguement was that it simpley didn't appeal to you, that would make sense, but instead you resort to saying that anyone who can like the game is an asshole, a retard, or a dumbass and use false "facts" to support your own bias. And I missed the part where I said that you had to play it. Was it between the part where I called you a dumbass or an asshole? No, wait, you're the one who called me that. I was the one being civil here. I was simply identifying a flaw in your logic, nothing more or less.--Werefang 12:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Mother of <insert deity here>! That thing can take over 50 hours to beat? I beat MGS3:Substance twice in 30 hours!

And FFX-2 in 10, or less. That boss isn't hard, just boring and time-eater. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 08:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

And, NB...we tried. We hoped. We came. We saw. We failed horribly. I mean, a superboss fight? Come on. It's at least a new fight, I'll give it that, but... I won't bitch about it though. There's (probably) always going to be next week. The.DreadnoughT 01:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

This fight my idea so your welcome.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 01:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't mind. However, I just checked. We now have official proof votes don't always count. (I don't mean anything by that. I'm just pointing it out for those concerned about the democratic process.) However, (edit: few moments ago, thought NB suggested this; error correction) Xlatinsorax's Kuja v Genesis has something like twelve for and only me against. This had seven for and none against. Votes don't count, apparently, because even if TacticAngel "voted for" this, it would have had 8-0 to Kuja v. Genesis' 12-1. The.DreadnoughT 01:58, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Interesting, a superboss fight. At least we have something new. And yeah, I'm noticing a trend here. Kuja V Genesis has more support. I wonder how TacticAngel picks these fights... Cuz a lot of fight like this one was suggested. I even suggested Shinryu versus Omega. Still waiting to see Genesis versus Kuja and Red v Mog. TheBlueDragoon 02:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Wow I almost forgot I even put that request there! I'm not complaining because this is an interesting fight, but how ARE the fights picked, I'm curious now....Xlatinsorax 03:03, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I could be very mistaken and I'm not trying to piss of TacticAngel, but I think each week he picks one that has decent support and one he thinks makes sense. That's what I would do at least, so that may be dead on or way into left field. TheBlueDragoon 03:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I think it goes without saying that the fights that make more sense aren't always as popular, as last week proved. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:04, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I know what you mean Slash. I guess all we can do is hope for a good fight each week. TheBlueDragoon 05:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Cryss Leonhart Im still waiting for a fight I can honestly care about. If only I knew what I knew about thunder god cid during his fight with basch I sooooo wudda changed my opinion. Just because FFT is amazing haha!. Also Genesis Vs Kuja definitely.

I'm not familiar with this version of Shinryu (as opposed to the FFX one, I mean), but from what I know of it, it's pretty lethal, right? By contrast, although Yiazmat is extreme (50M HP, for cryin' out loud!), and one of only two things I haven't completed utterly on XII (the other being the bloody Black Hole Concurrence), the leave-save-and-resume strategy means that Yiazmat becomes merely time-consuming, not properly difficult. I'm at the point with Yiazmat where I have my Gambits set and I only need to even be in the room just in case I take a bad hit, not because it needs much input from me. I probably would have killed him by now, but I got bored and haven't played XII for a couple of months now because I got him down to half HP, thus initiating that tiresome Reduce Damage Augment. Still, I expect Black Hole to annoy me long after the Great Wyrm is felled. So, yeah, this is me once again voting for the one I'm unfamiliar with :P -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 16:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree that Yiazmat isn't particularly tough to defeat if you have sufficiently levelled up and have a lot of time on your hands. It isn't even the hardest enemy in the game, if you ask me. I've only fought (and felled) the FFX version of Shinryu so it be a little unfair if I voted in this particular fight. Jeppo (Talk) 22:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Genesis: A lot of the later battles can be won simply by setting up gambits & walking away. This is a known fact. As for the "50 hour" thing, I just went by the article. Although, with statements here like, "It took me 2 weeks!", I wouldn't be entirely surprised.Neo Bahamut 23:21, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Damn, A cool fight this is... but the NeoVs.Werefang's kinda better </joke>. Ok, I'm not gonna flame but we should put in the description of the fight that "Sign your Votes or it will be deleted!" kinda thing... DB36 03:18, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

We should put that up for next week. I bet I'd get more votes. And I guess that works, but I'm not sure how many people read the fight description, either.Neo Bahamut 18:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
We do all know already what I have to say on the matter, right? Well, apparently the anony's don't, so here I go, reminding people again, because it seems to work:

SIGN YOUR DAMN VOTES! While editing, your vote should look something like this example:
#This is an example of a signed (and therefore correct) anonymous vote that will actually count, rather than wasting your time. ~~~~

When you click Preview, it looks something like

  1. This is an example of a signed (and therefore correct) anonymous vote that will actually count, rather than wasting your time. 1.2.3.4

So now that you have two examples of how to do it, GO SIGN YOUR DAMN VOTES (then sit down and drink your goddamned tea!), you anonymous people! (The rest of us have been signing, it seems, so just keep it in mind, people.) The.DreadnoughT 22:44, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

(oh, and extra marks for Genesis Rhapsodos, who signs his votes twice.) The.DreadnoughT 22:47, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


Responding to some votes, for no apparent reason: "Shinryu...isn't anything special...ooh, I get a new sword." I'd like to know how Yiazmat is "anything special." "OOh, I get a new sword...& there's nothing left to use it on!" Just sayin'. Also, there was mention made somewhere that Yiazmat may have "the greatest HP total in all gaming." I played a web RPG once where an enemy had 275 million HP. Granted, it was a war event, & his HP guage was being used instead of an enemy total, but you COULD fight him 1-on-1 (surprise: nobody ever beat him), & so he IS technically 1 enemy with 275 million HP.Neo Bahamut 19:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that's why I said "maybe"; within a straight RPG it seemed like a pretty safe claim to make, but I figured there's always MMO bosses... so yeah. -Nokareon
I said "web RPG." Not "MMO."Neo Bahamut 04:25, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
My mistake. Although I wouldn't be surprised if an MMO superboss had even more than 275 million. -Nokareon

Who was that NB? Back on topic, I've never played any of the games before VII, so have never fought that version of Shinryu, but yes, Yiazmat was a bit of a bore by the end of it (particularly with growing threat/cyclone), though the amount of health does make it sort of worth it IMO. TomServo101 20:52, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Its name was "Carnax." The RP was Adventure Quest. I haven't played it since, because the company is being retarded. So, ironically, the game pretty much died with Carnax.Neo Bahamut 21:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Vampyro said everything I wanted to say. Including the comment on the artwork. I hated the way dragons looked in FFXII. And most of the Lucavi. Everything else was fine, though.Neo Bahamut 09:05, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

If you hate XII dragons, you'll need a new word to describe your dislike of VI dragons. The Eight Dragons...well, only two even look vaguely like a lizard, never mind a dragon. Only one looks like a dragon in specific. The other six...well, one of them looks like a fossilized Sandworm with legs. And it goes downhill from there. The.DreadnoughT 13:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Having not yet read all of these postsa, i can honestly say that the peanut gallery is slightly more interesting than most of the fights posted. Also, BigCubby Has had a figght on the ready to be posted list since christmas and i have seen no indication that's gonna take place. Is TA really that against status ailment fights? --Gerdat14 06:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

You know, now I feel sorry for that one poor anonymous user with the gigantic paragraph-long vote for Shinryu...because they put in all that effort in their vote, and it isn't going to count because they didn't sign... The.DreadnoughT 13:40, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it's four different votes without pound signs.--Werefang 14:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Week 121: Irvine v. Barret[edit source]

CharVIII Irvine.jpg
DNC Versus.png
Barret PortraitNB.png
WINNER!
Barrett
45 1/2 to 39
Not every explanation is profound. These are gunners. One is from FFVIII and one is from FFVII, because thats all anyone wants to vote on!

Votes for Irvine[edit source]

  1. Irvine's a cool dude. He's best AND the most orthodox Gunner in the series quite awesome to see. No stupid gimmicks just a Stetson hat, shooting and awesome "Shots", backed with a good personality. He has one low(plot relevant)moment and everyone deems him pure garbage. Only real bad thing about him is he doesn't get too much development but that's VIII's fault. Of course I give respect to Barret easily one of the better characters in VII. AnonyMan
  2. My suggestion again! Let's see...Irvine is younger, sexier, more refined, a greater marksman, a more dashing gentleman, better dressed, uses superior guns, has better limit breaks, is more cautious and level-headed, has both of his hands, and is just as willing as Barret to fight for what he believes in. What does Barret have over Irvine? More relevance to the plot, but that's about it. Of course, some will argue that that's what ultimately more important, and I'd normally agree, but when you look at the tale of the tape, Irvine has the advantage. Oh, and cowboys rock. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 03:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. Well... I like Barret but Irvine made it to my final party. Terra_Homing 03:50, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. Firstly, Irvine is %100 human. No robotic hand/gun-for-a-hand or anything. He also doesn't add "$%^&*" to every conversation. Plus, he looks and acts coolers.--JohnnyC 03:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  5. Faethinverba volant loves guns and women too. Well, women anyway.
  6. User:Murmilo I used Irvine more in FF8 then Barret in FF7
  7. I kinda liked FF8 a lot more than 7 so... FinalAnnihilator 12:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  8. I ended up not using either in my final party but I kind of liked Irvine a little more than Barret.--Werefang 12:40, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  9. Two words- 'Cowboy' and 'Hat'. He also managed the unusual feat of not annoying me AT ALL throughout the whole game, which every other character managed to do during FFVIII. Although I liked him in FFVII, I don't see Barret wearing a cowboy hat, so my vote goes on clothing style. Captain Darkblade 13:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  10. Dag! This is the hardest vote for me yet because both were valuable assests to my attack party. Despite that, i'm going to have to go with Irvine on this one. I have a thing for shotguns...when they are used in movies and/or on video games...the use of it just makes my day and happy to be a man! Irvine is one of my favorite all time FF characters to use in battles though Barrert had a much larger role in his game's plot. Heretic Ramza
  11. I loved Irvine. He was one of my favorite characters in VIII, Barret was cool but Irvine was cooler. Irvine forever!Soren 4ever 14:13, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  12. To me it's difficult... They both can cast magic and summon... The main difference it's their limits break, and I think Irvine's is better!!! Josep
  13. Munk451 Irvine was so awesome, especially at the ending.
  14. As i hate guys who get all the girls, that was a point of Irvine for me. But i hated A-team and Rocky III. Plus Barret had no 'connection' to me, he wasn't real enough i guess. Irvine looks and acts like someone i know, so he was kinda believable. also Irvine didn't date Cloud, he went for Quistis, Rinoa, and Selphie. Limit is better too.
  15. These are both very likable characters to me, but Irvine gets my vote for being so damn hot. Sorry for being superficial. :P SamSandy 19:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  16. I'm not personally fond of either characters' personalities. Irvine seems tacked on to the plot, and Barret was translated to be a Mr. T knock-off. However, I did take Irvine to the final battle because of his useful Limit Break.
  17. Free bird 01:58, 3 June 2009 (UTC): Barret has some of the coolest limits in FFVII, but I prefer Irvine.
  18. ClixPsi
  19. I like Irvine, he was so laid back, and he's a sniper too, but he also had personal confidence issues and he was the first to realize that the group were all in Edea's orphanage together BritBoy 02:14, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
  20. I always found Barret a tad bit annoying. Besides, Irvine's one of the strongest members of my party. LadyLeonhart 09:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
  21. Brokeback Mountain, OMG. :D —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|16:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
  22. I kind of like people with a laid back personality, mainly because you can relate with them a lot easier. I'd pick Irvine over the guy with an obsession for hot dogs any day. Xxwater blue pandaxX
  23. Voting for the underdog again. He's cool, he has a cool hat, and he actually tried to kill the villian rather than let them talk away :| Aside from his importance to the plot, he has everthing over the overrated Mr. T/Cyborg clone. Gyromite 05:10, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  24. GO IRVINE!! i found barret useles and never used him, irvine however i usedd all the time. and lets face it the real gunner of ff 7 is and always will be Vincent Valintine, if it was him agianst Irvine then we have a fight on our hands. Also IRVINE HAS A COWBUY HAT!!!lordflare 22:38, 4 june 2009 (UTC)
  25. I vote Irvine because he's calm, he's good looking AND he wears a cowboy hat, how more awesome can you get? =D - Sencilia
  26. For the ladies man, the sharpshooter, and the awesome coat. 1stclasswarrior 14:48, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  27. I'll vote for Irvine, because I'll vote for Irvine, 'nuff said... DB36
  28. stetson and shotguns > mr. t and gunarms. also, irvine, zell and squall were my best characters in FFVIII (i have no patience for mages) --Adonzo 09:38, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  29. Maverick Riot: I can't believe I'm actually voting on this side... but... I'm one of the rare people who liked all of the playable characters of FFVIII. Yes, Irvine was my least favourite of them, but his head was in the right place. FVII, I find myself picking others, like Tifa and maybe Red, Cid or Vincent... less so Barret I'm afraid.
  30. User:Sakuyu: I Never played Final Fantasy VIII. HOWEVER, I absolutely hate Barret, and think he is the most annoying character ever, besides Selphie and her agressive voice. Plus Irvine is a Cowboy, and cowboy's are ALWAYS awesome.
  31. Luv the cowboy hat and the sharpshooter gun, he would of killed Edea if she hadn't used her shield Destriker73 02:50, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
  32. Too close a fight to call in the air, but irvine had a certain charm to him that i find barret didn't. Barret barks orders and sounds real tough, but Irvine was able to remain calm in a tight spot, and i personally feel that the sniper scene is one of the best on the first disks. Plus, cool and player make him all the better. --Gerdat14 15:38, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
  33. User:Phantom-Knight he's not a muscle bound oaf like barret. lol
  34. DEMOLITION AMMO. NUFF SAID. --the_seifer_weapon 10:25 P.M., 7 June 2009 (UTC)
  35. Considering them as "who's the best gunner" since the summary says that the relation is that they're gunners I'll vote for Irvine. Because Barret is NOT a Gunner, that one should be Vincent, Barret's closer to a Gadgeteer, so Irvine wins by default. And yes, I know a laser beam from a satellite beats a rifle but for Goddess' sake that's NOT a GUN (technically neither is the rifle but it's closer). Celythia
  36. --Maverick King 22:38, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  37. Of course... T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Irvine could snipe barret out before he could into range. 206.248.109.31 14:08, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. The only reason Irvine chickened out and didn't shoot Edea was because he remembered their past. Besides, he kicked ass in the Desert Prison. Barret? I liked his weapon but that's about it. 121.223.158.73 07:49, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. Irvine is a much better character than Barret. 206.248.109.31 00:51, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. 82.93.42.243 21:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)"

Votes for Barret[edit source]

  1. First vote! Barret has more backstory and uses trains as metaphors. Cluna 06 01:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. If I wasn't voting in favor of Barret, first vote! Regardless, the Heavy Vulcan is one of my favorite ranged weapons; Barret gets one of the coolest Limit Breaks (Satellite Beam;) is a character from VII, gets the Enemy Launcher (which is only not a RYNO-ripoff because Ratchet and Clank came out after FFVII; I still call that thing the RYNO anyway...) and repeatedly makes fun of Cloud's "spikey head." The.DreadnoughT 02:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. BlueHighwind : #$%%!
  4. Mr. T? 'Tis you!ロル Lol Cakes オケス 03:32, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  5. I pity the fool who doesn't vote for Barret. Who doesn't like Barret? TheBlueDragoon 02:39, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  6. Nokareon- There ain't no gettin' offa' this train we're on! No, but seriously, Barret broke stereotypes and covered new ground in Japanese video game character history, while Irvine merely reinforced the stereotypes. I can show you a dozen of other characters like Irvine- not so with Barret.
  7. Barret's just unique. I don't appreciate that much the Advent Children character, but the FFVII one is definitely one of a kind NeoSeth 09:02, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  8. He had a freaking gun...on HIS ARM!!!!!!!NeoExdeath 09:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  9. I'm voting for Mr. T over Clint Eastwood. Jeppo (Talk) 09:50, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  10. Kuzlalala Squee! 10:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  11. This one doesnt need guns to beat the crap out of the other contender. Leon5550 10:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  12. ScatheMote 10:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  13. 1 im a vii freak 2 im loosely basing a character in a story im writing off him and 3 without guns or gunarms barret would kick the shite out of irvinethe 6th angel
  14. Irvine? Hahahahaha DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH! Violetmage
  15. I hate both characters but Barret isn't a "ladies man" I hate those types of guys. BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 16:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  16. Because vote #9 deserves this vote. And because I like Barret's style. Karu
  17.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 17:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  18. MMLN メーマウリアン 17:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC) Although Irvine is my 2nd favourite support character ever, I do not like his personality as much as Barret's :P
  19. I like both, but Barret is more fun, "cute" with her daughter and has a background story more complex than "i'm just a orphan". And Barret is always $&#"&! around, and that made him more "human". Also, the Casanova stereotype and the bishonen physic are overused. And well, Barret reminds me the protagonist of an epic poop. Sorry Irvine, my vote goes to the big unshaven guy. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 18:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  20. $%#&! Barret gets my hi'five. The guy who said the rotten pizza sentence must win. Also, I don't know Irvine for more than two sentences and thus, Barret wins. Also, I like his backstory and Dyne's death was the most emotivestest part of FFVII evah. Go to heck, you flower girl.Zak Undersn 18:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  21. Barret is more interesting by far than Irvine, has way better Limit Breaks, has far more interesting lines in VII than Irvine does in VIII, and is more involved in the story – Irvine attempts the assassination, then does bugger all else. Oh, and the fact that I'm prejudiced against VIII's contrived character backstory. Plus, Irvine likes Selphie, which instantly earns him several antirespect points from me -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 18:50, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  22. Why? Because he can punch your lights out and shoot a hole through your brain, that's why. MechaUltimaZero 19:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  23. I just don't like Irvine. - Henryacores^ 21:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  24. Irvine is just a pretty-boy, while Barret is a badass with a machine gun for a hand. Why wouldn't I vote for him? - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 22:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  25. He hates people who sleeps in boxes... Well... Barret has nice limit breaks...OnionKnight23
  26. Barret is far more usefull and far more baddass, He is almosted NEEDED for fights where short range melee woun't work. Like the Helecopter at Shinra tower. Not to mention he may look all tough, but has a soft heart when it comes to people he cares about (Marleen). User:Neosamuel
  27. Barret is beast mode and can destroy any fag with a cowboy hat. User:+onionknight+
  28. The ladies man, or the man with the mouth like a sailor? Well, it's not Cid, but Barret is the better choice here. Besides, he looks like Mr. T. That's a win right there. Yath 13:39 (1:39 PM) 4 June 2009 (UTC)
  29. This isn't exactly fair, because I don't know who Irvine is, & I don't care enough to find out more, but I'm going to vote for Barret, regardless.Neo Bahamut 02:51, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  30. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 03:30, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  31. Barret, no question. Irvine was "toned down" so that he diddont steal all Squal's attention. Barret, on the other hand, is Mr.T. Nuff said fools! Jamiemitsu 10:57, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  32. Its a case of Billy Ray Cyrus VS Mr T. Gotta go with Barret, he had an impact on the story. As much as I love Nomura, he designed some crap characters for VIII. Irvine isn't one of them, but he's not great, Barret on the other hand... Nirvana Phoenix
  33. As far as i'm concerned i always found barret truly funny even though i don't like his fighting style. Plus he reminds me the beginning of the game which is just great. Badag 17:02, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  34. I would vote for Irvine because of his awesomeness and him being part of this pimpin fanfic, but Barret looks like he could eat me, so...plus he looks like mister T. :)Silas Harvey 13:08, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
  35. Barret is just plain cool, and in a battle of gunners he has to win 'cause his arm IS his gun. MisfitAirship 15:31, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
  36. Mr.T pities the fool that votes against him, sucka!— Ultima The High Seraph 18:16, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
  37. Barret owns and Irvine does not. That's all that needs to be said really. --StragusLore 22:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
  38. He is probably one of the most thoughtful characters in FFVII. He tried to rid the world of evil by reviving an eco-terrorist group. He took his best friend's daughter, raised and loved her. He mourns the death of his comrades, while Cloud coldly forgets about them (like everyone else that isn't Aerith). And he did all that with ONE HAND!!! I mean come on, I like Irvine but Barret's the man! Xlatinsorax 15:59, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
  39. clvabl Barret has a bigger gun.
  40. Barret has racial fury, better hair, better gun, and deep thinkin Ningacom 01:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
  41. BigSlurp: Barret is da man. He is actually my favorite non-primary good guy. And perhaps my 6th overall fav. His attitude is the bomb. Irvine is cool and all, but he seems a bit of a carefree kinda guy, which is not someone I'd want in battle with me.
  42. Cause Barret is actual amazing and has a real story whereas irvine is pretty lame with virtually no story apart from being a perve. Jackrandall1 19:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
  43. I like Irvine but Barret just plainly has a better gun then him Mr_Darkside 21:52, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Barret is just a badass, plain and simple. Just looking at him you know he's not one you want to cross, but he's also got a soft side as seen in the case of Marlene. He also makes fun of Cloud, which is just a bonus. Plus, he's got a freaking gun for an arm. That just screams badass. No offense to Irvine, but just like every character in VIII he had no development, so there's not much to vote on there. Not his fault, but still 71.187.79.22 02:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. I love Barret's personality and he made me laugh pretty often69.108.107.247
  3. Best limit breaks clearly, plus his gun is grafted onto his arm! his arm! and he is a dad trying to save the world and it's his fault we joined avalanche and became embroiled in FFVII to start with. 89.240.137.70 09:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. Irvine is in VIII and a whiny useless piece of shit. Barret is in VII and funny as hell. 76.234.96.44 16:13, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
  5. 71.247.25.88 18:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Because this seems to be needed as a reminder to all of us who seem terribly incapable of following the rules of simple exercises in the democratic process, here's the reminder in advance: SIGN YOUR DAMN VOTES! While editing, your vote should look something like this example:
#This is an example of a signed (and therefore correct) anonymous vote that will actually count, rather than wasting your time. ~~~~

When you click Preview, it looks something like

  1. This is an example of a signed (and therefore correct) anonymous vote that will actually count, rather than wasting your time. 1.2.3.4

So now that you have two examples of how to do it, GO SIGN YOUR DAMN VOTES (then sit down and drink your goddamned tea!), you anonymous people! (And the rest of us, too, for <insert name of deity here>'s sake!) The.DreadnoughT 02:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey! It seems to have worked! Only two of the anonymous votes aren't signed now!

Next time, wait before deleting other's votes. They can return, discover that they were logged out when they signed their votes and repair them. But not if someone (who generally isn't an admin) deleted them. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 18:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

As awesome as the tried to play Irvine's marksmanship out to be, why the hell does Squall of all people have not only a better Accuracy stat but a MAXED one at that? Either Squall(and Seifer) are naturally superhuman or gaining proficiency in unorthodox and highly impractical weapons will do that to you. AnonyMan 02:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh joy, yet another fight I don't care about. I wish one of my ideas would make it into the DNC. I mean there are so many other fights that would be better. I really want to see Red versus Mog. TheBlueDragoon 02:42, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, quit your bitching and moaning. What other fights you think would be better is your opinion. This fight isn't going to be repealed, so save your breath. And for the record, do you know how long I had to wait to get one of my suggestions up here? Once you think of a half-decent suggestion, then maybe it might get picked. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 03:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I don't know how long you had to wait. Yet still, it is a good fight, just not one I wanted to see. I refuse to say anything further. TheBlueDragoon 03:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Nokareon- is it just me, or does it seem like each fight is staying up longer than a week? Maybe it's just 'cause the recent ones have been so boring...

Mon Dieu, I'm generally having a dilemma here. I couldn't possibly pick between these two and yet... I must show my support for them! Ah, this is horrible! I'll abstain for just now... I've got some serious thinking to do. Paramina 08:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Same here, I can't decide easily between them, I liked them both and disliked very few things of them. And both of them are being accused of things that aren't really correct by the anons like Barret saying "!@#$%" at every opportunity he gets, as far as I remember compared with Cid in the same game Barret's pretty well mannered with his mouth. Or Irvine "crying" before shooting, really all those who like to throw that at his face should stop and consider if they could shoot the woman that raised them without having a breakdown. I suppose I'll wait and vote for the one with less votes if I can't decide after a couple of days. Celythia
"Crying?" Am I really that bad? Am I the only person to miss the "boo-hoo"s and "snifle"s?</sarcasm> And "raised them" nothing. Snipers are professional murderers. First they need to study their target and get to know them. Then they need to figure out the best time to take the shoot. And then, they need to watch their victim die. Most soldiers kill in the heat of the moment. Snipers kill in cold blood. The fact that he could take the shot at all is amazing.--Werefang 16:35, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
So you're saying that, were you a sniper, you could kill your own mother in cold blood without any type of emotional backlash? I, for one, would not be able to do that, and I admit it. MechaUltimaZero 17:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I think that he was saying that it was amazing that Irvine could even TRY to shoot (and fail because of the witch's powers -which also mean that even if he had been able to shoot in cold blood perfectly SHE would have BLOCKED it which is what happened and not that he missed-) despite being a trained sniper and such. At least that's what I understood XD Celythia
For the record in my version of the game (and probably all the Spanish versions) all Irvine does is say "aah... ah... aaaaaah..." and point to the side to Squall, as if to say "Don't you see WHO it is?" Celythiaput
I'm not saying that he doesn't recognizer her. It may very well be the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back." I'm simply pointing out that the assumption that every sniper is an automatic "badass" who can take a life without a second thought is, at best, missguided, and at median (yes, median), complete and utter ignorance. Don't ask me what the worst is. The answer would cause you to go blind.--Werefang 00:35, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Wait a second. Rewind a bit. We don't know if Barret is actually less foul-mouthed than Cid, because Cid got to use real f***ing curses once in a while. His favorite seems to be "Shit! Shit! Shit!"; Barret seems to swear somewhat less often, but presumably Square decided that whatever Barret was saying was bad enough to be f%$#ing blanked out. In other words, Barret may have been dropping F-bombs, which are significantly more profane than Cid's "Shit!" shit. Not that I give a damned shit in Hell's sewers, I'm just pointing that out. The.DreadnoughT 00:36, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't surprise me how there's a ton of Mr. T jokes. I pity the fool who doesn't vote in this week's fight. TheBlueDragoon 21:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I pity the fool who votes and doesn't sign. The.DreadnoughT 00:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
They do need to sign their votes, or they're just wasting their time. TheBlueDragoon 21:44, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

If you don't vote for Barret, he'll "go upside your spikey white head and bring you back to normal!" This is a good example of what I meant in my vote when I said Barret has great lines -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 22:14, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Barret did have some good lines, although I don't remember many of them. I haven't played FFVII in about five years. TheBlueDragoon 22:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Irvine is so cool he gets two lists of vote~s ^0^ (I wanna fix it but I'm afraid of breaking something and don't even know if it would be alright to do it). Celythia


Notice Square are fine with black men leads but no black women ¬_¬ 78.144.163.68 09:17, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Not this discussion again... Remember Fran? Take of the bunny ears and you've got yourself a "sister". SamSandy 19:43, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Not so. All Viera in XII have that skin color. They're not all black. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 18:04, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I think we need to do something about the cowboy hat. People are using it as grounds for voting against Barret, which is an extremely flimsy excuse – the only thing flimsier is claiming that Irvine's limits are better... get real, people!. I propose replacing Barret's portrait at the top with this picture to even things up -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 15:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I suggest that BOTH portraits are replaced with that picture, because voting for a character "because he's Mr.T" doesn't have more ground than "has a cowboy hat". That way both of them will have cowboy's hats AND be Mr.T. Celythia
Uh, this is the DNC. People can vote here using whatever reason they can come up with. So what if Irvine has a hat? Makes no difference. I could vote for Irvine because he had nicer shoes. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 16:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
That's preposterous! Everyone knows Barret has nicer shoes. XP Master Conjurer 02:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

God whats with all these terrible matchups? Again not voting. - Saraija Merinas

"That's all people want to vote for!" I disagree highly. There are several fights with a lot of votes in the DNC, although I will say that the one I'm supporting has an FFVII character. But also an FFIX one! But really, I don't know the situation with VIII, but it's really a disadvantage to propose a fight with a VII character.Neo Bahamut 02:51, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

If you dun like it, bitching about it won't help. And PS, this matchup is awesome cause it's mine. Insult it and you're insulting me. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 03:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Learn to read. Or at least don't put words in my mouth.Neo Bahamut 03:51, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes and my idea is Red versus the Mogster. That's my idea, so its awesome too.... TheBlueDragoon 06:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
@ Neo - I was replying to Saraija. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 18:04, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Shit! Sorry, it's just that your remark was right below mine. Also, to TheBlueDragoon: Yes. Yes it is.Neo Bahamut 07:37, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Hey isn't this a site for fans not just fanboys? I'm aloud to have an opinion.- Saraija Merinas
She (I'm assuming you are a woman) also has a good point. (Neo Bahamut is enjoying his rare state of neutrality.)Neo Bahamut 01:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Yup, I'm a girl. And hey, I'm not dissing them as character's I just didn't care for either during the course of either game, I'm just not to fond of gunners, or in Barrets case big, muscley, loud gun-armed men. - Saraija Merinas
First, because NB has stopped being a Grammar Fascist, I'll have to say this: you do mean "too fond," right? Also, Barret's arm isn't always a gun; it has also been a laser (A-M Cannon, Max Ray;) a cannonball he punches things with (Cannonball,) some dumbass tool called Atomic Scissors, a jackhammer or something like that (some sort of hammer-type mechanical device; don't remember what) and the RYNO's predecessor (Enemy Launcher) which is much more than just a gun, it's a nine-barreled rocket launcher. Hell, I don't even call Barret a Gunner; I just don't know what else (other than maybe Gadgeteer or Machinist, but they don't fit either) Barret is. And I won't go into any more detail on jobs in FFVII, because then Neo Bahamut's non-neutral self will rear its ugly, materia-concious, materia-summoned, Giga-Flare-casting head again. Wait, that's the summon... The.DreadnoughT 00:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I just missed that...you have a grudge against me, or something? If so, I'm making a lot of enemies. I know Zak's gonna be pissed at me, because I yelled at him earlier about keeping his discontinuitying away from the DNC Nomination page.Neo Bahamut 00:32, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't think I have a grudge; I only have that against Cloud for repeatedly defeating Sephiroth by cheating (getting help, using more than 2 swords, etc.) And, if I do bring that argument up, its usually just because I want to avoid having it ever again. My fingers still hurt from that typing. And what's Discontinuitying? I'm as clueless as link, (because I'm going to be cruel and make you mouse-over the hyperlink to see what I'm talking about) as to that. The.DreadnoughT 01:25, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
When you don't like a part of a story & pretend it never happens, that's called a discontinuity. A lot of people do this with, say, Dirge or Crisis Core. This is fine, I mean, it's a personal decision whether or not you want to acknowledge a work. -I- say it's stupid, and I never do it, but that's just me. The problem I had was that he was using it as a reason to vote down suggestions in the Nominations area, using arguments like, "Genesis & Weiss don't exist, because if they exist, that means that FFVII was crap, & it's not." This childish display rather pissed me off. I mean, I don't go around voting down any fight with an FFXII character in it because FFXII should have never been linked to FFT, do I? No, I do not. I at least know enough to be objective and not ruin it for the other fans. As I said repeatedly, this is the FINAL FANTASY Wiki, not X's Favorite Games Wiki.Neo Bahamut 02:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
First Dreadnought, my grammer sucks, and I have played VII alot, so I know all about Barrets weapons, regardless I was just stating my opinion. (Although I do wish we'd stop with all the VII and VIII fights.)-Saraija Merinas

I don't mean to offend anyone, but, Barret mostly looks badass, he is a kind hearted person inside. But, because the story of FF8 touched me a lot more than FF7, I have to go for Irvine. Remind me if Barret was ever so badass. It's been some time since the last time I played FF7. FinalAnnihilator 09:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Personality wise, Irvine is like Proto-Balthier. Which is win. --Adonzo 09:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

As mentioned above, he's got a lot of cool lines. And a pretty deep emotional turmoil that people often miss because they're too busy noting that he reminds them of Mr. T. I mean, out of all the FF characters I've ever played as, he's the only one I can think of who's ever stopped to think about who his actions have affected. That wins him points in my book. Plus, he's (at least supposed to be, although you might disagree) a character who seems stupid & hot-headed at first glance, but is actually pretty smart. I like those characters.Neo Bahamut 07:37, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

OK WTF , SORRY FOR THE FLAME BUT REALLY ANGRY RIGHT NOW... PEOPLE DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE RULES, COZ SOME OF THE ANONS AT BARRET'S SIDE, AND 1 ON IRVINE'S SIDE AREN'T LOGGED IN.... DAMN DON'T THEY KNOW THAT THEY NEED TO? I'M REALLY, REALLY FRUSTRATED TODAY. BUT SEEING THEM MADE IT WORSE. DAMN, COULD I DELETE THOSE VOTES??? ARRGHH, CAN'T WE ALSO EMPHASIZE THAT NO.1 RULE? DB36 12:58, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

It's emphasised at the top of this peanut gallery. The problem is, a lot of people are too innatentive, lazy and/or thick. No matter how much we say it, emblazon it in the night sky, or brand it onto the eyes of every member of the populace, there will always be some eejit who still doesn't get the idea -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 18:31, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Dude, calm down. It's annoying, but there's nothing we can do about it. It happens all the time.Neo Bahamut 07:37, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The fact that Barret looks even more awesome wearing Irvine's hat than Irvine himself is more than enough to keep supporting him. Zak Undersn 17:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Finally, someone who actually agrees with my picture! -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 18:31, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
You win. Epic picture is epic. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 00:08, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
That picture is awesome. Barret wearing a cowboy hat. Very nice. XD TheBlueDragoon 00:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I hope they remake FFVII & put Barret in that hat. At least he doesn't look like a gay cowboy. Disclaimer~Neo Bahamut has nothing against homosexual fronteirsmen.Neo Bahamut 01:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Not to be the obligatory objection, but only Barret would look like an gay awkward cowboy(/rebel thing) with a Stetson. His design doesn't match the hat at all(none of his looks would). A bandana would go better. AnonyMan 02:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I've seen the picture. He looks awesome in the hat. Irvine, on the other hand....Neo Bahamut 03:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I want that hat. Karu
I want that man. Zak Undersn 12:50, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
@ AnonyMan: WRONG about the Bandanna. The only guy with a gun who looks cool in a bandanna is Solid Snake, and he wears it more like a headband. Give it up. Barret does look cool in the hat, though, SN. The.DreadnoughT 00:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Uh, sorry I don't think so. Snake looks dumb as hell(*gasp* Yes, I said it and am not joking), always has. Nope the hat still looks stupid on B-Man, a Bandana or actual headband would be fine still. Other AVALANCHE members rock one or the other and it works. AnonyMan
DREADNOUGHT LIMIT BREAK! The.DreadnoughT 02:21, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Barret's vote 9, Irvine is leagues inferior to Clint Eastwood. You cant relate Irvine to a guy who have influenza in the morning and wipes out an entire town in the afternoon. Clint Eastwood is the pinnacle of badassery. Be it a cowboy, a detective or a boxing trainer, he always kicks ass. Irvine's just one of his fans. And Clint Eastwood >>>>> Mr.T ;) Felling lucky, punk? 05:11, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't like Irvine or Clint, so either way's fine. Jeppo (Talk) 01:14, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Mr.T is my childhood hero, Clint is a good man but he's not my hero. Anyway, I'm voting for Barret, not for Mr.T... but I STILL love Barret's vote 9. Karu
Why thank you very much! Jeppo (Talk) 21:30, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually, yes, I am feeling lucky. I just got hit by lightning twice, then dodged a meteor, won the lottery, and took the Ruby Weapon halfway down without getting hit at all. (Gotta love it when Ultima, Ruby Fire and Ruby Beam all miss, twice each, between KoR summons...) The.DreadnoughT 00:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I thoyught we were done with VII vs. VIII fights. Wasn't Squall vs. Sephiroth supposed to be the last one?Xepscern Highwind

Supposed is the keyword Zak Undersn 12:50, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Is it just me or do these fights last longer than a week? TheBlueDragoon 20:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I think you're right, but technically, it will have lasted one week in about two hours, so I guess we're both wrong. The.DreadnoughT 21:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I see. I thought the fight changed on Sundays. Well, I'm sure it will change soon. What will be the next matchup I wonder TheBlueDragoon 23:16, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Which day of the week it changes on is not specified; last change was my last Tuesday; you may or may not be on the other side of the International Date Line from me, if you are, it's you're...uh, either Wednesday or Monday (can't remember which.) The.DreadnoughT 02:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Good point. I'm in Cali, so yeah. Anyway, let's hope we get a good fight next week. TheBlueDragoon 02:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Kuja vs. Genesis...I can hope, can't I?Neo Bahamut 06:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Or Red versus Mog... We can hope indeed Neo Bahamut. TheBlueDragoon 18:09, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Or Ritz vs Cecil. Yes, we can indeed hope, NB and BlueDragoon. Even that fight between Genesis and Shakespeare is more interesting than this fight, whose "best before" date was yesterday. The.DreadnoughT 22:18, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
So many good fights we choose from. And so many I'd like to see as well. Ah... Next match please! Who's in charge of updating this thing anyway? TheBlueDragoon 23:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Tentatively saying that Barret is going to win this one. I have to say, even though I wasn't a fan of the fighting pair themselves, I do like the way the fight turned out. It's relatively close, & I don't really remember running across many "don't know the other guy & don't care" votes, besides for myself. That's right. I'm being optimistic. Run for your lives, for the end is nigh.Neo Bahamut 23:11, 10 June 2009 (UTC) User:Phantom-Knight ok this is no longer fun. lol next match please!

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