Voting for the following battles has closed. The records are kept here for posterity.

Week 120: Amarant Coral v. Kimahri Ronso[edit source]

Amarant Coral character.jpg
DNC Versus.png
FFX Kimahri Art.png
WINNER!
Amarant
33½ to 29½
As I have been told, this is supposed to be the courageous lion versus the lone wolf, but certainly, you, having played the game could probably draw other parallels.
Amarant Coral character.jpg

Votes for Amarant[edit source]

  1. Unfortunately for me, I missed out on getting Vivi his best spells, so I had to bench the little guy. Meanwhile, I also missed out on Steiner's best weapons, so he was also lacking. Thus, Amarant actually made it into my final party, along side Eiko and Freya. Thanks to Counter Magic and several other useful skills, Amarant proved to be a good substitution. Hey, it's more useful than Kimarhi, who just feels like a second-rate copy of whosoever path you send him down. ...Neither were too interesting as story characters. ClixPsi
  2. I felt Amarant was useful while Kimahri just wasn't. Amarant meant I could go spell crazy as long as he was there due to chakra. Kimahri however made me trade him out for one of the girls apart form that one battle where I spammed attack to kill the bosses. Sorceress Heartilly
  3. BlueHighwind : How can I vote against the Dude?
  4. Neither of them made it to my final party, but although I still look at Amarant and feel that story-wise he lacked many things (although Quina lacked even more things so I won't complain much) he was in my party pretty often and was in fact my second backup with Steiner. Kimahri on the other hand won my heart story-wise but lost it all in the gameplay aspect so I neglected him in the worst way you can imagine and only came to level him up when he had to fight alone. They're pretty equal but still the fact that I liked Amarant story-wise (despite finding it lacking) and gameplay wise makes me vote for him. And I always liked wolfs over lions, specially lions with a broken horn. Celythia
  5. Two characters I didn't really care for. I'm only going with Amarant because he didn't feel like a copy. He had his own, if somewhat pointless, abilities. Plus he could Throw, which is always a plus in my book.TheBlueDragoon 18:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  6. Wow, I think this is the earliest I've ever gotten to this after a change. Anyway, how could I vote for a semi-Blue Mage? Blue Magic is one of those things...I'm not even sure I'd vote for a Blue Mage against the Whiny Dumbshit from VI. And then Amarant has to go and be similar (in some ways, if not all) to Solid Snake. Snake Relative vs Blue Mage + Dragoon...Amarant gets my vote. The.DreadnoughT 20:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  7. Unlike some people, I have nothing against Kimahri, but he has the same fatal flaw that Quistis does: Blue Magic should never be restricted to a Limit Break. Amarant is more interesting character-wise (though not story-wise), and he's often quoted as a useful party member for challenging Ozma, which earns him bonus points in my book :P -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 21:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  8. Kimahri can go down any path on the Sphere Grid but ultimately he's just a weaker version of the original, who needs a sub-par black mage with Lulu or a Healer who can't summon? Also, No Mercy can do 9999 by the end of FFIX. Terra_Homing 21:06, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  9. OH HOLY SHIN-RA CORP. I must vote for you, Salamander Coral. Not that I hate Kimahri (in fact he's so irrelevant to the story that I almost actually liked him) though, but The Man here can put autolife to all your party at once and then throw things to your enemies to death, or kill them to death, or quad-9 them to death, or heal your party's MP until your enemy gets bored and dies. The only thing that makes Kimahri "unique" on it's own game is that he has one of the most awesomesest skills ever limited to his limit breaks. ALL HAIL AMARANT. Zak Undersn 21:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  10. I like Kimahri, he's one of the only good characters in X's massive suck of a Cast. But the big Red-Hair is in another league. Sure he may not have too much prominence in the story(like Kimahri). But he's got character, the look and awesome versatile abilities, NO MERCY! Of all of FF's supercilius "bad-ass" characters he's like the only one who actually is, and more so than the others. AnonyMan
  11. Hey it's FFIX's team mascot! - ロル Lol Cakes オケス 00:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  12. Nokareon: Amarant has cooler personality, and can actually hit 9999, making him not useless like Kimahri.
  13. Meh. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:18, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  14. Kimahri is a useless Blue Mage *and* Dragoon. Meanwhile Amarant may be my least favorite IX party member, but he is damn useful as a battery for my mages. Hyacynth
  15. Amarant AND kihamari did little for their respective games. But being a bigger IX fan and knowing that Amarant a bit more skill fighting (he's a monk so he's good with hand-to-hand and he's a ninja so he throws too) makes him more useful the his opponent. He did have NO story in the game though.--Jedicam10 07:49, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  16. MMLN メーマウリアン With Kimahri being my least favourite character in FFX (despite being sort of Blue Mage) my vote is clear on this one, although Amarant is not one of my favourites aswell :P
  17. Come, on, people, Amarant is way cooler than Kimahri (who is also very cool) and he is also useful in battle, something than Kimahri is not. --TenzaZangetsu 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  18. Heretic Ramza Kimahri is cooler looking (like something off the Thundercats) but he was a huge let down for me, especially as the only non human party member. Neither were a whole lot useful for me in battles or added much to their games' plot, but Amarant seemed more powerful and dynamic since he starts off playing for the other team.
  19. His hairstyle rocks. Karu
  20. Kimahri was my third main party member in FFX, because I like his appearance and he had Jump. I though he was a Dragoon, and without doubt choose him for my party. When I discovered he had to choose another character's path, I though "Wow, now I can have a cooler black mage than Lulu". It took me many time to understand he was a poor imitation, a "second-rate" copy of another character as someone told before me. And I was against Jecht then. Really, I never had Amarant in my party in FFIX. I always took Zidane, Garnet, Vivi and Steiner, and sometimes Eiko, Freya or Quina. But never Amarant, so I can't evaluate his skills in battle. In spite of that, is really HARD, if not impossible, be more useless than Kimahri, and I like Amarant's looking too. Besides, I consider a MNK/NIN (Monk+Ninja) a more "natural" combination of jobs. A DRG/BLU is a great idea, but in Kimahri's case is a failureDragoon+failureBlue Mage, so MNK/NIN win by far. In plot terms, Kimahri win, basically because I don't remember a thing of Amarant, and reading here I understand why. Both characters have things for voting them, and things for voting against them, but Kimahri had more against than Amarant. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 15:11, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  21. Somewhat useful char vs. Kimahri. Easy to choose. Kupuntu 18:49, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  22. I didn't really like either of them, but you've got to admit that Amarant is more useful. Kimahri's talk about "Kimahri not big strong Ronso Warrior" made me want to douse my television in gasoline. Violetmage
  23. I think Kimari is a good character in the plot, but less important in battle: his attack power is not so powerful as Tidus's or Auron's and his Skill are not so useful as Magic or others... Anyway it's a good choice but not the best I think, his skills are not the best and his Turbo is not so useful... I think Amarant, although it's not my choice in my perfect party, it's better: his physical attacks are strong, but not stronger enough as Steiner or Zidane, anyway, it's a underestimate choice and his skills are useful, I vote for Amarant but doubting... Josep
  24. Two words: Ninja-Monk. More words: A monk that acts like a ninja, Or a Blue mage that tries to act like a Dragoon, whose Blue Magic only works when he's in overdrive? Amarant is way better than Kimahri in that respect... Yath 13:43 (1:43 PM), 27 May 2009 ~
  25. he is just gr8 better than kimhari anyday lol
  26. Why didn't someone tell me that my suggestion made it? Eh, I wouldn't have listened anyway, I have been way too busy. And anyway, the fight is supposed to be about how both of them have two class types that no one can figure out if they are one or the other. Amarant is a Ninja and Monk(which is why I am voting for him) and Kimari is a Dragoon and Blue Mage(a close second in class types). It is also interesting because both of these characters have been shoved into the background by characters whose rolls in the plot run much deeper and have more meaning. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 23:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
  27. In my book, wolves top lions. Now on to the fight. I think Amarant has more usefulness than Kimahri. Also, he basically just punches the crap out of things, and when not punching, he's using some Flair move. Enough said in my opinion. Majyk 01:45, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
  28. I don't like either of them but I prefer IX over X, so my vote goes to Amarant. --StragusLore 02:28, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
  29. I'm sorry, Dragoons, but I'll have to let you down.Xepscern Highwind
  30. Amarant has the best Trance and Kimahrit -- ergh. George B. (talk) 16:52, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
  31. Counter Magic+No Mercy+Curse+Throw= One of the best and effective IX Characters. He was good with magic AND physicals, and if memory serves me correctly, he could restore MP Captain Darkblade
  32. Kimahri wasn't that useful in 10, so im voting for the useful one User:Murmilo

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Elan + Aura + 50 spirit = invincibility71.247.251.194 23:06, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. I think i remember actually using Amarant for slightly more than the fights that you're required to use him in, which is more than i can say for Kimahri. As characters, they do almost nothing for the story, though Amarant does slightly more. 76.234.96.44 23:20, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
  3. I love Amarant, his skills are amazingly useful and he always ends up in my final roster. I just wish he had more substance to the story. Also he has a kickass theme, red dreads and the pointiest chin in FF history. 86.8.60.61

Votes for Kimahri[edit source]

  1. ScatheMote 15:46, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. Phantom-Knight Amarant's character development is really minute. His impact on the game in the story side is really not that moving.. and the way his character was made was really lame cuz there really was no sentimental connection to the game whatsoever.. unlike Kimahri where the game gave the spotlight to him and his value to the team both in the story side and in the grinding part is really great.. aside from the chakra skill of Amarant which i really loved Kimahri overshadows the redhaired dude.. sorry bro.. go Tarzan i mean Kimahri!
  3. I've just started IX, so my vote goes to the game I have already played, X. Go go Kimahri! The Final Annihilator
  4. I have more sympathy for Kimahri than Amarant. At first, Kimahri comes off as the silent giant powerhouse of the group, but as the game advances, he's actually a quite pathetic outcast among his kind, which was honestly surprising. I don't have anything to say about his battle skills, though. SamSandy 19:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  5. I despise Amarant, I think his character is horrible and I never liked using him. Kimahri doesn't talk much but he is a good character. He is an honorable, caring character who will put his life on the line to save anyone. Amarant on the other hand only cares about himself, pfft. Go Kimahri! :) BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 21:21, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  6. Amarant is completely hallow and lacking of character. Seriously, I'm voting against my favorite game, and for my most hated? That's saying something. —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|21:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)~
  7. The person above me means "hollow." "Hallow" means "holy." In any case, I don't really care about either of them. But, since I know something about Kimahri, & I can't even tell what Amarant IS, I'm voting for the Ronso.Neo Bahamut 22:29, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  8. I'm voting for the guy you can put in any job class! Cluna 06 02:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  9. I'm surprised that I'm actually voting for a X character versus a IX character... especially since the character is Kimarhi... But, you see, I don't like Amarant. When you see him standing next to his castmates in IX, he's just not that great (in comparison). I actually like Kimarhi... when I think about it ahah. I really like his relationship with Yuna, and the fact that he's just a good guy with good morals. So, I'm siding with Kimarhi on this one Yzz 03:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  10. Ehh, Amarant didn't really seem very significant in the plotline to me. Khimari actually had more of an in-depth meaning to his game. Plus, a blue body works MUCH better for a Ronso than it does for a human being. (Still never understood what that skin condition of Amarant's was. xD)--JohnnyC 03:11, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  11. Master Conjurer 03:31, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  12. FF X is my first FF game i got and Kimahri is a strong character if used in the right way. my vote stays with the lil ronso#NocturnisEstra100 09:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  13. Makes the cast of FFX a hell of a lot more bearable by diluting the annoyances BritPenance 10:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  14. Gonna give some love to Kimahri partly because I slightly acknwoledges his existence in the game only because I had to beat the crap out of him and because he wasnt a character who was slightly self absorbed. Having Kimahri done something for the other people in the game. Plus X was the game I started with gotta give it some love xD Cryss
  15. MechaUltimaZero 11:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC): Kimahri was actually one of my best characters on my second time through it. I haven't played IX at all, so I can't judge Amarant at all, but Kimahri can (with the proper strategy and equipment setups) use his Overdrive at LEAST every two or three turns. Can Amarant use Trance every single battle for the entire battle without reverting more than once? I think not.
  16. I'm a furry so... Kuzlalala Squee! 12:18, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  17. Kimahri has much more character development than Amarant, not to mention he is extremely powerful in lower stages. He's also awesome. - Henryacores^ 15:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  18. Amarant is an over used, cliched stereotype. Even if Kimahri is a stereotype (which I doubt), its under utilized. Plus, IX was a generally dissapointing game for me.--Werefang 17:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  19. I really hate Kimahri but since i don't know much about much about Amarant i'll vote for himDestriker73 09:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
  20. ronso rage beats elan that simple the 6th angel
  21. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 00:25, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
  22. He can easily get Holy and other high White Magics before Yuna does! You just have to spend a long time with him sitting in one place waiting on the right Key Sphere. But I'll admit that this vote is mainly for never having played IX. Nashblade
  23. Genesis rhapsodos: Kimahri is just a deeper character and can become more useful than Amarant in my opinion. #Genesis rhapsodos 05:51, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
  24. Hornless! --Zephyrus11 05:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
  25. Because I actully used Kimahri in his game, plus he's blue. Blue > Green/Red.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 11:53, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
  26. Amarant sucks in every way possible. He's worse than Tidus, Seplhie and Ultimecia rolled up all into one. Kimahri is awesome. He roars. 1stclasswarrior 18:30, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
  27. This vote mainly counts cause i dont know much about the other character, but Kimahri is pretty damn cool either way. I'd want him on my side in a fight anyday. Keiko2113
  28. Kimahri is the most awesome Ronso ever! His voice made me laugh and he had some pretty cool limit breaks FinalFantasyAerith

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. I found him more useful than Amarant, I almost never use the throw ability, pretty lame ability 69.108.107.247
  2. I'm not fond of voting against IX but Amarant was a sub par attacker and a pointless addition to the storyline; Kimhari provides steal early on in the game and can use Nova which is extremely useful, plus his love and devotion to Yuna is quite sweet.89.240.78.234 23:22, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  3. Is Coral an awesome cat thing with a horn? No therefore kimhari is better

206.248.109.31 22:39, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

BfD considers Amarant "hallow"? I find that voting against someone that you revere as holy is odd... unless of course you meant "hollow". Sorry for mocking a spelling error/typo, but it was irresistable XD -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 22:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Heh, I beat the "Grammar Nazi" to the "hallow" error -- SN
Nope. Sorry. Look up in the votes for Kimahri: I got it there.Neo Bahamut 00:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
So 22:29 is earlier than 22:23? Check the history: yes, I accidentally made the above critique in the wrong place (sorry!), but I haven't changed the timestamp. I beat you, not that it matters, eh? -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 17:54, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Don't know what you're talking about. Your vote came after my comment. I know, 'cause I was sorta there when I made it.Neo Bahamut 23:51, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
<sigh> Look at the very first comment in this Peanut Gallery. That's the "my comment" that I'm referring to, because I made it before you made your vote -- SN

Oh, joy, another fight I don't care about. I want mah Genesis vs. Kuja! I don't care that it's not my suggestion, it's like the perfect fight, and it may actually get me to vote against FFVII.Neo Bahamut 22:29, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I got tongue-tied--finger tied--whatever. You'll notice I said "your vote," when you stated it in a comment, & I said "my comment," when I stated it in a vote. I got that part backwards. What I am absolutely certain I am right about is this: My comment & vote was before your interjection. The gallery was empty when I started editing, & while I'm not sure whether or not it made it through FIRST, I did not see your comment in here until a subsequent visit, when I was prompted via E-mail that there were changes (your comment) to the DNC. The talk of time stamps and whatnot is completely irrelevent to me, as I know what I saw. You stated that you put your comment in the wrong place. Did you perhaps put it in the wrong article? Or in the votes? Because I haven't been reading them.Neo Bahamut 22:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I put it in the wrong place because I'd put it above the thing in here that says <!-- Place your comments below this line-->. In fact, you say you didn't see it, but it was you that removed it the edit you made after mine! Don't believe me? I provide undisputable proof in the form of the page history: click here -- SN
No one cares about Genesis 89.240.78.234 23:19, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Tell that to the 8 or so votes for the fight.Neo Bahamut 00:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
At least three of which are excited to see Genesis get his ass kicked by Kuja. 92.26.102.36 12:31, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
And I don't give a shit about Kuja. The.DreadnoughT 03:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Nod.* From what I understand, a lot of people don't. Really, I like 'em both. Despite the manthong & the fanfic-starting that Kuja and Genesis are guilty of, respectively.Neo Bahamut 04:34, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I'd also like to see Kuja and Genesis fight. It would be interesting to see. TheBlueDragoon 23:01, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Woohoo! I'm not alone in this!Neo Bahamut 00:07, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
I've been hoping that one comes up for a while. Kuja and Genesis in the DNC. It would be a sight to see. It's got a good amount of support. I also would like to see my Mog vs Red XIII sometime soon. TheBlueDragoon 18:27, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
I want mah Yuna vs. Aerith! But, I've pretty much given up hope for that, & am throwing my support behind Genesis vs. Kuja.Neo Bahamut 21:31, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Kimahri isn't exactly getting a lot of love. We've had one-sided fights before. A lot, actually. Sephiroth vs. Kuja was put up as a winning candidate, & those 2 really have nothing in common, besides being a main villain. And I didn't care about this fight or the last one. So, give me one good reason the fight shouldn't go through that can't be traced back to your personal opinion. (I have a topic on Rin's that, in its life, was VERY excited to see Genesis in the DNC, so you are obviously mistaken. Not gonna dig it up, though, as it should be fairly obvious that 3/8 does not "everyone not giving a shit" make.)Neo Bahamut 23:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Cryss Haha I would have to vote for Genesis and I would be more than happy to have an argument with Neo Bahamut over it ;) Anyway this fight didnt really interest me at all I threw down a vote for Kimahri because I kinda felt sorry for him considering him to be the underdog but this is definitely not a fight I honestly care the result of. Oh yeah Kimahri was slightly better IMO xD
I'd have a hard time deciding between the 2. I've never played IX, but Kuja sounds like a pretty good character, & whenever I can, I try to picture the DNC like a battle, which Kuja would most definately win. Genesis is powerful, but Kuja's magic outclasses his. In all honesty, though, I would probably just vote for whoever was losing after a few days.Neo Bahamut 22:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Whoever said Amarant can hit 9999 and Kimahri can't is wrong...Kimahri can hit 99999, as well as every character in X. So your reasoning to vote for Amarant is flawed. Just saying. BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 02:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Ugh I know! A lot of FF characters can do 9999 damage, actually <.< Yzz 03:15, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
As long as we're nitpicking, she never said Kimahri couldn't hit 9999. Just sayin'.Neo Bahamut 06:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Nokareon: I know this is a rather belated reply, but first of all, I'm not a she. Also, my comment was in reference to Amarant in relation to the other characters in IX, not talking about X at all (correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that only Thievery/Frog Drop/Dragon Crest/No Mercy could deal 9999 in that game, making Zidane/Quina/Freya/Amarant the ideal team, this me saying Amarant was useful. Actually, after looking into it, it looks like Steiner can too, but whatever.)
"and can actually hit 9999, making him not useless like Kimahri." The comment is being said as if Kimahri cannot hit 9999. Sorry but perhaps you should read carefully. Just sayin'...again. BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 07:48, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I was reading a different one. And, to nitpick again, it's entirely possible that the vote could be taking relativity of damage between FFs into account. What does that mean? Well, it's kind of like what Rai Balmung says, below me.Neo Bahamut 23:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
But is really easy hit 9999 (and more) in FFX. It isn't in FFIX (I didn't remember me hitting more than 7k, but I can be mistaken). Ah, can you fix your vote? The Rikku's picture of your sign took a second vote. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 15:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I almost felt like drop kicking Master Conjurer for his supposed Twitter link, but I laughed my ass off instead; I'm curious, so sue me User:Leiber_Mage

If you want to follow me on Twitter, the link on my user page is real. Master Conjurer 11:50, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually it was more about 'why would you put twitter in a vote?' then anything else XD User:Leiber_Mage

It was part of my signature. It was everywhere I've conversed. Master Conjurer 19:36, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I see, nevermind then XP User:Leiber Mage

*sigh*OK, somebdy voted for Kimahri when they said that they hated him. Look people, if you hate somebody, then you shouldn't vote for them in the DNC unless you hate the other guy even more! MechaUltimaZero 11:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

There's quite a lot of unsigned votes up there... :/ SamSandy 08:51, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the anonymous users need a visual aid...
While editing, your vote should look something like this example:
#This is an example of a signed (and therefore correct) anonymous vote that will actually count, rather than wasting your time. ~~~~

When you click Preview, it looks something like

  1. This is an example of a signed (and therefore correct) anonymous vote that will actually count, rather than wasting your time. 1.2.3.4

So now that you have two examples of how to do it, GO SIGN YOUR DAMN VOTES (then sit down and drink your goddamned tea!), you anonymous people! The.DreadnoughT 17:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Lately I've started to get the feeling that the "sign your votes" reminders seems to be needed even among non-anonymous users. there is at least one vote for each character that's in the registered section and isn't signed in any way, wouldn't those be deleted as well? Celythia

Hated them both, never used either. - Saraija Merinas

Week 119: Rydia v. Quistis[edit source]

Rydia FMV DS.jpg
DNC Versus.png
Quisty.jpg
WINNER!
DRAW
The commonality here is found with each individual female protagonists' use of a weapon commonly known as a stockwhip or bullwhip, a weapon typically made a long cord of woven and treated leather. The sudden application of torsion to the whip will transfer energy rapidly down the tapered length towards the tip, which can, if properly snapped, accelerate the tip beyond the speed of sound. Traditionally used as a tool to guide livestock, the whip can also be a dangerous weapon in the hands of the right person.

Now you vote, who would you imagine is deadlier with this item?

47 to 44½

Votes for Rydia[edit source]

  1. First vote! Rydia is epic ^^ Terra_Homing 18:09, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. Because Rydia kicked Kain's badass ass during the start of FFIV, and also because of her DS artwork. :) Revlolcakes.png ロル Lol Cakes オケス 18:15, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
  3. Does this surprise anyone? Drake Clawfang 18:43, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
  4. Because she's HOT!  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 19:16, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
  5. User:Neosamuel I pick the summoner, she did the best damage in the game once you get Bahamut.
  6. This is a tough choice for me as I like them both. Quistis was one of the few characters that I was fond of in VIII. I'm going with Rydia though. She is a black mage/summoner which simply defines coolness and comes from a much better game.--StragusLore 22:08, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
  7. Weird... I'm one of the first votes for once. TOP 10! Blazelord
  8. I LOVE Rydia <333333 Yzz 22:38, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
  9. Well, in spite I like very much FFVIII, I know it has a great problem: the characters. They aren't developed enough (if they're developed) and they haven't enough charisma. Quistis is not a exception. She's one of the most decent characters in the game, but she has some... "fail momments" that make her lose points in the rank. And well, in the other corner we have Rydia, a character full of charisma, wich you quickly "fell in love" with, and has really epic plot role. Spoiling, when she starts to forgive Cecil in Kaipo, when she overcome her trauma with fire, when Leviathan attacks and you loose her, her return in middle of the battle against Golbez, when she and Rosa trick the boys in the Lunar Whale... small and great plot momments that in addition to her personality, make her a so great character. And fuck, I just finished FFIV DS a few minutes ago and remembered why I consider FFIV my favourite. Ah, and about the whips... paralizyng a Behemoth with a whip strike has no price. Yeeeeeha! Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 01:47, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  10. Sexy-ist charactaaah evaar. Summoners are the best (except in tactics advance 1&2, in which they suck, and are totally beaten by scions)Archmael121.73.88.52 02:42, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  11. Yay for Rydia, the best summoner EVER!!! AtmaCrisis 02:56, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  12. Nokareon: I'm actually rather surprised Quistis is actually in the running (at the moment).
  13. Rydia whips but! Kuzlalala Squee! 05:01, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  14. Oooh, so unfair. Both two of my favorite characters. I think this vote goes to Rydia simply because she is a summoner. Quistis is amazing, but I like summons, so Rydia is my pick. Leviathan! Not to mention she managed to own Kain, my favorite character in the series. TheBlueDragoon 06:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  15. She's a summoner,summoner beats blue mage anyday User:The 6th angel
  16. BlueHighwind : Rydia is smart enough not to fall in love with Edge, her world's Squall.
  17. Cranequin Quistis can't stand a chance against Rydia 15:38, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  18. I don't know Quistis enough to vote for her. And Rydia is awesome, as a character and as a fighter. Zak Undersn 16:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  19. Final Fantasy IV is my second favorite, and she was my second favorite character in that game XD. I'm biased XP. Majyk 17:32, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  20. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Quisty except (a) the fact that Blue Magic should never be restricted to being available only through a Limit Break, and (b) her really sucky backstory. Now, I may not have played FFIV, but from what little I know of Rydia she seems a lot cooler, a lot stronger, and a hell of a lot sexier -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 20:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  21. Gah! These are both characters I really like, but I've got to hand it to Rydia, since a) she was the first proper summoner in the series, b) she was more relevant to the story in her game than Quistis was in hers, and c) she's green, my absolute favorite color. SamSandy 20:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  22. Hyacynth Black Magic and Summoning is superior to Blue Magic any day. Also, Rydia's whips come with that nice chance of paralysis. I do like Quistis, but Rydia will always be one of my favorites.
  23. Sorry, Teach, but for me this is a match of beauty. RYDIA FTW!!!!
  24. This one what a tough choice, at least as far as whiping skills go, but if I remember correctly I didnt have Quistis geared tword strength so im putting my vote to the one who I know can definatly handelher self whe she needs to.
  25. I like them both however my vote is going to rydia mostly because she is a summoner.Badag 18:13, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
  26. ....Boobs O_O.... Culex, Dark Knight of Vanda
  27. Rydia moves the plot foward. Cecil, Kain, and Rosa would be sulking too much too move the entire last quarter of the game if Rydia wasn't pushing them on. And Edge is completely hopeless, unable to comprehend the depth of the party's situation at the end, and does an excellent job of soiling the reveered title of ninja. Rydia has to babysit him while holding the rest of the party's hand along the way, so I have to say that she is amazing. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 00:41, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  28. My vote is for Rydia CookiePinguy 07:08, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  29. RYDIA Is Form My First Final Fantasy. Also She Is Not From VIII Sooo.... Facky 08:12, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  30. Rydia is the only summoner that i hav played that noes black magic that is why she is soo awsome NocturnisEstra100 08:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  31. Blue Magic, even if sometimes useful (Big Guard; Shadow Flare is an E-Skill and one of my favorite spells...and there's 1000 Needles...which is nearly useless by the end of game anyway, when you can do 2000+ with a physical) is the ability of Blue Mages, who I hate because of Blue Magic taking too long to learn. If I was more patient, I'd probably like it more, but I'm not. The only way to make Blue Magic worse is to restrict it to a Limit Break, preventing its use and ruining the point of a Limit Break. Oh, I almost forgot...Rydia is not from VIII. The.DreadnoughT 21:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  32. Sora G. Strife 00:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC): Bahamut=Ultima. Nothing more to say.
  33. I find that a skillset that works all the time is better than one that works only when you're in critical status. Besides, Ryida's cuter. XD And Bahamut for the win! Yath 13:22 (1:22 PM) 20 May 2009 (UTC)
  34. kjelfalconer Erm... she has Bahamut. And mist. And Leviathen. THe invicible triumverate of dragons.
  35. Terra_Branford: Well, you can't really see who has more whipping skill in the games (especially the original IV), so I'd say they break even there, but based on their other skills, Rydia's got Quistis whipped (bad pun I know) because Summoning > Blue Magic. Not to mention that I adore her costumes & hair color.
  36. Heretic Ramza: I'm still in shock from Orlandu losing to...anybody! But in this battle, I'm going to have to go with Rydia because as the lone summoner on the game, her role in the party is more critical...battle wise. Plus, FF8's blue magic wasn't anything spantacular.
  37. Green hair! NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 19:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
  38. I solute summoners.So this adorable green-hair adult gets my vote User:GabbianiSoul
  39. Gotta go with the FFIV girl RowdyCMoore
  40. I know who this girl is ... sort of so I choose her.--Blackwing11 16:47, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
  41. Wait... Rydia's got you whipped. That a quote direct from the game. Whipped. Whip. Win? 8bit 21:55, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
  42. I like Rydia Karu

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Gotta place my vote for my Rydia. She kicks ass as both a child and an adult. She doesn't take any shit from anyone, and her attitude just screams badass. Not to mention she's a black mage and a summoner, two of the best classes rolled into one. You can't get more badass than that. If her words don't bring you down a peg, then her whip will. Rydia's my girl. 96.242.165.2 18:57, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. I vote for Rydia because I barely used Quistis in FF VIII 119.12.88.210
  3. Because she's not in VIII and because Bahamut and Asura own. 76.234.96.44 00:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  4. Viva la Rydia!! 203.12.22.51
  5. Summoners FTW!!!! 121.219.4.30 10:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Votes for Quistis[edit source]

  1. First vote!!! BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 18:05, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. Quistis is teh Blue Mage. - Henryacores^ 18:06, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
  3. Faethinverba volant votes for the loveliest instructor of Balamb and his second favourite character from FFVIII. Plug.
  4. Though I prefer Rydia over Quistis as a character, and though I'll probably be the only one to consider this battle this way, thinking in terms of "who uses the whip best" I'll go with Quistis. Overall her abilities aside from her whip always seemed to be as plain average while Rydia has a great magical power as well as her summons. Basically I don't see why Rydia would even bother to learn to use deadly her whip as long as she has energy to cast spells and summons, Quistis however is in more need of learning to use the whip thus being better at its usage than Rydia who basically only has to carry it as a "just in case".Celythia
  5. I haven't played FFIV so I can't really know exact details about Rydia. I am currently playing FFVIII, so I clearly prefer Quistis. And to follow the usual pattern, I do believe Quistis is s*xier than Rydia. Can't tell any other differences. I don't know about Rydia's job class and character so... :P The Final Annihilator
  6. ChaosEsperVII: I think Quistis has more character. Rydia feels generic. Although Rydia was more useful... I know I'm going to get flamed but doesn't Quistis look sexy? People will go on and on about who looks hot and all that, which is well and good, but I don't think a Final Fantasy female to date looks sexy.
  7. In most cases, I'd be in camp Rydia. Black Mage/Summoner>Everything else. However, this IS a battle of whip proficiency. Sorry, Rydia, but Quistis's got you whipped. ...Sorry about the terrible pun. ClixPsi
  8. Quistis came off as more interesting than Rydia IMHO.--Werefang 00:58, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  9. Rydia's a better character but from the weapons proficiency standpoint, I'd imagine Quistis being much better than Rydia. With being raised and trained at a Garden and all. Oh, and she can increase her physical attributes with Junction thereby potentially raising her superior skill even further. Anony
  10. I'm for Quistis, Rydia's a kid, she doesn't have the chance against Quistis. Dude she whips people!!! Devil Breaker 03:13, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  11. Master Conjurer: Rydia is a summoner and can use other weapons. Quistis relies on the whip. 03:22, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  12. I have my reasons. Two years ago, my vote would have been different. PaladinCecil 03:39, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  13. *place inappropriate comment here* - +DeadlySlashSword+ 04:02, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  14. Meh i don't like eithe rof them BUT i prefer FFVIII over FFIV Yuffie2211
  15. Quistis: the real hero of VIII.Xepscern Highwind
  16. Well, I haven't played VIII or IV, but I at least played a demo or VIII. And even though Quistis wasn't in it, that still means I know an infinitesmally small bit more about her than Rydia. MechaUltimaZero 17:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  17. Pikmin Master: I think this is an excuse to get two hot characters go at each other for nothing more than fan service. My vote goes to Quistis because, according to the conditions of this fight, Rydia doesn't need the whip. Quistis' Blue Magic only counts for her Limit Break, and the whip might be the only option for her. Sure both are hot, but I'm not voting for Quistis for this reason.
  18. Man, there's something about Quistis that really makes me want her...that whip, those glasses, her SeeD uniform.... Chocolancer 19:36, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  19. While we can all say that these two ladies are both fine, I am a Trepie through and through. P.S. I'm really surprised how close Quistis and Rydia are right now- it's 18 to 20 (my vote is #19)- I thought that Rydia would be kicking some major butt! Violetmage
  20. On terms of who uses the whip better, that would have to be Quistis. Rydia's strength is in her magic and summons.--JohnnyC 20:36, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
  21. Bacuz I was brainwashed into doing it O_O and bacuz I hate teh Green - WELCOME TO DIE 03:15, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
  22. Cryss Gotta go for Quistis just in the nature of the question though as I think she is a better whip user. Doubt I would have voted for her otherwise partly but she gets bonus points because I have actually played the game shes in. Also I didnt expect a close one looking.
  23. I prefer Rydia over Quistis... but this is about who uses the whip best... I'll go for Quistis... Onionknight23
  24. NO comment OwlEye 16:42, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
  25. One of the only tolerable characters of VIII. She whips. - Paramina 19:24, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
  26. They are both good characters from good games, I have to go for the one who is in FFVIII. --TenzaZangetsu 18 May 2009(UTC)
  27. Gokus789 I like Rydia more but Quistis has always been the whip master to me. Besides Rydia doesn't need a whip when she has black magic and can summon.
  28. aquamarine39 Characterwise, I prefer Rydia, but Quistis can actually deal damage with her whip. Even when things boil down to magic, Degenerator beats all of Rydia's summon. Quistis would win in a fight.
  29. This is indeed a tough one for me. Both are good characters, but I can easily see Quistis as da Master of da Whip! Cluna 06 04:12, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  30. I'd want her as my teacher :) BritBoy 11:34, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  31. Hot teacher with a whip. how can you say no ^_^ The_Seifer_weapon 8:45, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  32. Munk451 One game that I really enjoyed was 8, and for a lot of reasons. I am just voting b/c I did not have the chance to play 4.
  33. Pluto. Tough choice, but I go with Quistis.
  34. MMLN メーマウリアン Unfortunately I have not played FFIV yet, so my vote will be little bit biased, but I realy love to play with Enemy Skills more than with any other spells, and because of that Blue Mage like characters are in all games my favourite :)
  35. Phantom-Knight Dude nothing beats quistis blue magiks.. the best blue mage ever in the entire FF series not to mention she has that hot schoolteacher with a whip concept >:) and she has one of the best cards in FF 8 card game and lastly she has a fan club in game!Who can beat that?
  36. Mr_Darkside What Phantom Knight said.
  37. BigSlurp : I agree with most that made this selection before me. Rydia may be more powerful but we are looking for who is better at using the whip. I have to pick Quistis because she relies on the whip to maintain her life, while Rydia has all that magic and the whip is pretty much secondary. So I would imagine that Quistis would have more proper training, and he better command of this difficult weapon.
  38. I love both characters but Quistis wins for me, she's better with her whip and I just like her more, even if she doesn't have much of a story. --BoAKaNRikkusmallsig.png 11:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
  39. Vohaul86 Quistis was a must when fighting blood souls, knocking those flying bastards down with a smile (she at least managed to hit them when others always missed). Maybe I just suck in FFVIII, but it seemed that she made more damage than Squall and Zell in the beginning of the game no matter how I put their junctions...
  40. She's a hot teacher with some character development. Judge Balthier 15:34, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
  41. Quistis is ferocious with that whip. Don't underestimate a hot teacher. Quistis has my vote on this one. George B. (talk) 01:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
  42. Well both are hot but I think Rydia is only good at summons and not with whips and I like Quistis a bit more that Rydia.JudgeMasterKefka
  43. I prefer Quistis. She is a heck lot more damaging with blue magic than Rydia can ever be. Besides, she's there for the whole game, and doesn't go missing halfway through when you really find you need a party role or two. User: chaosshaun
  44. Genesis rhapsodos No offense Rydia, but Quistis is a SeeD operative, and she was even an instructor to them, that says skill in and of itself.
  45. Because although I didn't really like VIII, quistis made it bareable and she was funny - plus I heart blue mages. Also quistis would whoop Rydia's ass literally in like a second before she had chance for any of that fancy summoning. Jackrandall1 07:34, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  46. Vampyro 07:41, 25 May 2009 (UTC) Quistis is one of the most powerfull characters in FF8 and also one of the most stylish of ff female characters...so she rocks!!!!

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Rydia's whip attacks were pathetic 210.213.191.242
  2. I've actually played FFVIII. Also, I think Quistis is the third best character because of her Limit Breaks. They pwn. (Toward the start at least >.>;) -61.68.106.81

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Kain Highwind's got Rydia whipped. Faethinverba volant 18:17, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Other way around Fae.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 19:19, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Nah, Rydia's got Edge whipped! Well, actually, she's got the whole party whipped xD! Yzz 22:40, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
And if she'd oblige me, she can have me whipped too. Drake Clawfang 23:32, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Rydia can whip me any day of the week. She managed to own both Kain and Edge, both total badasses.TheBlueDragoon 06:03, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Rydia can have me whipped in a couple of years.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 10:27, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't know who either of these chicks are, and I really don't want to get involved with a DNC battle that is most likely going to become fetish fuel. You guys may not be seeing a lot of me, this week....Neo Bahamut 02:34, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from. Am I the only one whose vote was based on melee skill? Master Conjurer 06:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
It was obvious from the very start. In fact since I've been lurking around most of the votes in the Colosseum are based in "I like him/her", "He/She is sexy" or "I don't know the other one". Still I'm surprised that there are more people than me that actually vote based on weapons proficiency and not just the sexiness or the "summoner/black mage > everything", which is what the battle is about according to the summary, instead of being a landslide from the very start in Rydia's favor. With a bit more of luck this will be an actually interesting battle.Celythia
Landslide? Its 20 to 18. Drake Clawfang 17:35, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm still surprised about it, I was sure Rydia would get most of the votes from the very start. And if you look at Quistis' votes there are actually a few that seem that could have been for Rydia had the voter not vote thinking about weapon proficiency. And that includes my own vote. And wouldn't that be 20 to 19? The second anon for Quistis put an IP didn't it? Celythia
So far only one of the anons really voted correctly. I've been fixing them. Master Conjurer 19:30, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm amazed its not a one sided fight this time. TheBlueDragoon 19:58, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Am I right in thinking that it's reasonably rare for people to do what I've done, i.e. vote for the one they aren't familiar with? Seriously, I really need to see about playing FF4 at some point... -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 20:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Is kinda rare. However, if I had been around during the Hojo vs. Cid (XII) fight, I may have voted for Cid, had I not went to YouTube to look him up. And if the Genesis vs. Kuja fight goes through (hint, hint), I may vote for Kuja, unless Genesis is losing terribly. Hard to beat the whole "I can blow up an entire world" thing.Neo Bahamut 00:59, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I ain't gonna vote again. If it's asking who's deadlier with the whip, I'll say Quistis. And if it's who's more useful, I'll say Rydia. - Pure-Moneo 07:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Are we voting on Rydia/Quistis or their whipping skills?  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 10:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
The battle summary asks about who we think is deadlier with the whip, so many of us are voting based on that.Celythia
Cryss Leonhart Actually its about half and half with the few who read the battle summary talking about whip skill and the others talking about who they think is the hottest. Or how summonery is better than dragoonism lol
Sad, but true. I always read the battle summaries and the votes already cast before making my own. MechaUltimaZero 13:13, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

TA, I love your explanation of the physics behind whip-snapping. ^^ 8bit 00:03, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

"Cecil, Kain, and Rosa would be sulking too much too move the entire last quarter of the game if Rydia wasn't pushing them on." No. Just no. Rosa is not the sulking type. The closest she EVER comes to that is being sad for how Cecil's acting in the first half of the game, and even then she's fairly positive. Whereas Rosa's the often positive, uplifting support of the group, for the first half of the game, Rydia's the innocent child made victim that needs Rosa's loving support at Mt. Hobs to overcome her own sulky past. The second half, Rydia's a young spitfire. That doesn't mean Rydia isn't a meaningful part of the game, but I get irritated when I see traits of Rosa misattributed to Rydia. PaladinCecil 02:47, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

You get irritated whenever anyone mentions anything distantly related to Rosa. Drake Clawfang 02:50, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
When it's something disrespectful to Rosa as a character, yes. PaladinCecil 02:51, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
You're kidding, right? I mean, for example, in a topic related to FFXII about Vaan's uselessness in the plot midway thru the story and someone said: "No kid, Vaan's even more useless than Guy, Quina, Cyan and Rosa." Seeing this you'd go berserk and write an essay about it? Leon5550 09:25, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Please stay on topic. Rosa is neither combatant, and TA is strict of late. Master Conjurer 09:26, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

It's actually kind of funny to watch you guys go on and on about Rosa bashing. I mean seriously, I can't help but laugh at the stupidity of it. A character is a character is a character. The only thing that really makes a difference is the eye of the beholder--if you like a character, great. If not, great. 'Nuff said. MechaUltimaZero 12:03, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Not entirely true. There are certain objective merits that can be factored into one's decision. If a character has no place in the plot, it's not very good. Take Penelo, for instance: Does she do ANYTHING besides act as emotional support for Vaan? Does she even do THAT well?Neo Bahamut 23:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
The only other character of the whole series that gave me the "stuck in the cast just to get an even number" was Quina from FFIX, and still Quina gave me the feeling of being more useful than Penelo. I still think I would have liked it better if the sixth character was Larsa, even if he kept coming and going until the end. Penelo didn't even gave me the feeling of being the "perky young girl" archetype. Celythia
I suspect Penelo had a much bigger role planned for her in the game than what the end-product had. The early trailers showed a scene of her dancing in a forest, and that never happened (until the sequel, at least). She was definitely a hollow character, but I'd much rather treat her as lost potential. SamSandy 08:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Cryss Hehe maybe the entire cast could have been something useful if we had maybe a main character instead of a camera to view the storyline through. I mean I tryed to like XII (Yay Graphics) but I just couldn't do it the characters seemed hollow to me and Penelo a damsel in distress combined with an emotional foil to vann (stay in line mister.) Back to the on topic I would like to note that I actually had quistis use her regular attack a lot because beyond a certain point my characters were nicely junctioned and had strong solid attacks plus since it had the PC version I could sit there hammering the X key barely playing attention to the fights. Only really had to sort it out for boss fights.
In that case, perhaps I should refer to the entire cast of FFXII as "lost potential"? None of them were particularly good. I simply zeroed in on Penelo because it seems to be irrefutible that she's useless to the story. And I think they were going with a "calmer" spunky girl...whatever they were trying, they got the worst character ever to come out of the Final Fantasy series. I bet some of the workers shot themselves.Neo Bahamut 01:49, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
*sigh* When I said that the only major factor in whether a character was good or not was the eye of the beholder, I meant gameplay-wise, not story-wise. For example, I found that Penel was pretty darned useful--she, Ashe, and Basche were my party for most of the game. I only ever switched people when I needed more Quickenings. I mean, I never really found Balther all that useful except as a Quickening repository. His story wasn't all that interesting to me, either, but I digress. At any rate, what makes a character good? I would say plot importance and combat versatility. What makes a character great? That can only be decided by the players. MechaUltimaZero 12:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Really, every character in FFXII is exactly the same. They start out in only slightly different locations on the license board, and the rest depends on where you move them. Regardless, I see what you're saying. For example, a lot of people cite Cait Sith as being useless, but I actually used him a lot, in my 2nd playthrough. I only really neglected him in the 1st because he was kinda goofy. Incidently, they should have made him unavailable during Aerith's death scene. But I digress again. It should be somewhat obvious that I have few good things to say about XII, but yeah, I didn't find ANYONE'S story particularly interesting. Balthier was the most interesting character not because of anything plot related (his strained relationship with Cid & past as a Judge Magister seemed hastily tacked on & ill supported at best, complete asspulls at worst), but because of his attitude. Judging from his fanbase, most people would agree with me. He's kinda like Kefka, actually. Not in that Kefka is a bad character, or that he didn't do anything, but in that the fans of both characters remember them mostly for their one-liners & attitudes.Neo Bahamut 01:49, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Rydia (FFIV) vs Quistis (FFVIII). Stop it now and stay in the topic.

On a totally unrelated note, Quistis is actually winning among registered users, whereas Rydia only has a few more anon votes. Could this be the end of the "VIII-sucks-no-matter-what" theory? I hope so! MechaUltima Zero 12:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I think the "VIII-sucks-no-matter-what" concept is like Communism: even when no large group of people puts that idea into action (like starting up Communist Parties, revolting and joining the USSR, that sort of thing) it never quite dies, because some people hold onto the idea. (And, yes, I do hate VIII, but I won't rant on it. I just dislike it, and that's my opinion; you are free to like it, as you obviously do.) The.DreadnoughT 21:18, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Cryss Haha I liked VIII and I refused to play VII until I Had completed it. Although this idea was taken back when my PC has to be reformatted and I Lost my save data :'(. But still surprisingly close and if you count anon votes that shall go through Quistis is just ahead looks surprisingly like a tie. Lol. As for my opinions maybe its because some people dont know who Rydia is or Quistis has huge appeal factors to some people. This is a very tough fight, the closest one i've ever seen.

I won't try to start an argument about the validity of the "VIII-sucks-no-matter-what" theory, but it just irritates me that so many people (at least that I'm aware of) seem to hate it only because it came right after VII and was so radically different. I think that a lot of people wanted something a lot closer to VII then what they got, and I also think that they didn't really give VIII that much of a chance. I'll confess that I nere actually played VIII (I was only 5 when it came out, and hadn't even heard of FF yet), but I did manage to get my hands on a demo of it, and it was that demo that made me a Final Fantasy fan. I HAVE played and beaten VII, (borrowed it from a friend), and it while it was good, I do think it's a tad overrated. MechaUltimaZero 11:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Really, this happens all throughout the series. Kefka IS NOT an original character. The fact that they reused some elements for the final battle with Sephiroth is not a legitimate reason to hate VII. A lot of the Compilation is hated for not measuring up to peoples' nostalgia of the original. Tidus is hated for not being a stereotypical hero archetype. FFT is hated for being "too hard." X-2 is disliked for having a different atmosphere to many of the other FF games. And, I will admit that some of my hatred of XII & the TAs comes from the fact that it just does not measure up to FFT, which they are supposed to be associated with. I could go on & on about just the games I've outlined. Maybe throw in a character or 2 from one of the other games. But I think you get my point. And, ironically, that demo disc made me (somewhat irrationally) hate VIII. Fuck. That. Crab. Seriously. I've thought about getting it every now & again, but I can never seem to arouse enough interest, and even if I did, I doubt I could find 8.Neo Bahamut 02:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Personally there are three things that stop me from loving VIII to bits: Rinoa, who I love and despise at the same time, liking most of her except for what I dubbed "Rinoa's whining" moments and her mostly simply mind frame during the first part of the game. The fact that the whole casts' story minus Rinoa was the same, Zell's adoption being the most original bit of it all, it gave me the impression that the staff didn't know what to give them as backstory and settled for a general one. And the ending, I don't like it when a game I've beaten basically tells me that it served for nothing IC as no character apparently learns from the whole thing and just let things stay as they are. Still I can overlook all that and find it an awesome game, or at least a game with a great idea behind it but which wasn't performed as well as it should have (and I loved that it was so different from FFVII). Celythia
That is basically why I, in spite I like so much FFVIII, don't consider it one of the bests. The near zero treatment the non-Squall (or Rinoa, who I don't like as a character) cast receives made them appear as "filler", empty characters. Even Kiros & Ward had deeper treatment. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 13:06, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Haha maybe its different for people who didnt reall get into Final Fantasy early on and i'm referring to VII when apparently the Final Fantasy series became fantastic although im pretty sure the others must have been good to keep selling. I got into Final Fantasy when I traded a friend a copy of Vice City for Final Fantasy X and I loved the game to bits. I didn't have the stereotypical hero archtype and Tidus to me scored some awesome points. At times he didnt have much of a choice and he whined because he didnt exactly know what was going on and was slightly confused. Anyway from there I got X-2 which Played through till the end and it was different and slightly wierd and the dressphere sequences took FOREVER! even though I never took em off xD. Anyway from there I got XII which I appreciated for its differences and at the same time thought was kinda cool even though I never finished it. So all my opinions were based on the currentmost FF games. For the record I also got FFXI but never played it. Anyway from here I started looking into previous incantations of Final Fantasy but the prices were mega expensive for me at the time. Anyway at a bootsale I was on the last row and found FFVIII on PC for 50p anyway anyway lets just say thats now in my collection hehe and I love it to bits. I Found the story entertaining and loved the game to bits anyway this was my wake up call that the older Final Fantasies would be good so I hit ebay and ordered FFVII. When I eventually got round to playin it loved it the story was amazing the game was fun and addictive to play and I would say that if I had known about it back in the day it would probably be my favourite Final Fantasy however to this day X will be the godsend that put me onto Final Fantasy and gave me hours of play time. Anyway just trying to see if the order you played the Final Fantasy games in makes any difference from what you think of the other games and haha hell if your planning on playing FFVII for the first time and you think it will ruin the next FF game you play choose XI youll save yourself some money in the long run xD.Cryss
Hey, you really aren't doing that typing in all caps thing! I'd hug you, but I'm not that kinda guy. Anyway...I did play VII first, so naturally, my nostalgia gives it a BIT more credit than it may deserve, but I think that's really not a huge part of my opinion of it. Yeah, it was my first JRPG. But I'd played a lot of games prior to that, so I don't think there's any real rule of firsts. I like FFVII largely for the same reason I like other RPGs: The storyline. It was complicated, pretty unique, lots of twists, made me think, and yet I understood it pretty well. I'd seen ads for Tactics in VII's manual, & my friend happened to have it. I borrowed it, decided it was epic, & sought it out for myself. I liked it largely for things similar to what I liked about VII, up to & including having gameplay similar (but also very different) to the Fort Condor minigame. By the time I first put down Tactics, X was coming out. It looked awesome. I was excited. It did not disappoint, & fortunately, I didn't judge it by X-2, which I had actually started playing first, & didn't like as much at the time (it's still not exactly my favorite, but I don't hate it anymore). I had much the same thoughts about XII but it, unfortunately, proved to be much more of a disappointment. Naturally, I got WotL & the other Compilation parts whenever I got the chance. 'Little disappointed I can't get XIII. It looks awesome, despite having a storyline that feels a little too much like VII at this point (the 3 FF games I like the most are somewhat similar, & I like them for similar reasons, but they're also very different in terms of setting). "And that, as they say, is that. Or maybe not, who knows?"~Machean.Neo Bahamut 01:36, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree, NB: I played TA first (my first FF game), then VII (my first numbered game); the Fort Condor minigame is one of my favorites (although I found it easier, simpler, cheaper, faster, and more profitable to just not place anything, let the enemy get to the top, and beat the shit out of the boss that the enemy sends...) of course, being an RTS fan before playing any FF game probably influenced that. The.DreadnoughT 21:30, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Indeed. I played the Fort Condor minigame largely for fun. After you buy the freakin' villa (which is damn useless), you don't really have to worry about funds. Like most things, though, you get a better reward the longer you hold them off (as the boss gets tougher), and the best if you win without letting it get there. Also, there are apparently multiple battles at Fort Condor, besides the Huge Materia one. It saddened me to realize that I missed so many....Neo Bahamut 22:03, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Can anyone take whoever is deleting votes and whip him/her until death? thanks.

Maybe Rydia or Quistis could take care of it? MechaUltimaZero 16:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

If we wanted to get really literal about the battle summary, the question is "Who is deadlier with the whip?", not "Who uses the whip in a more deadly fashion?". This technically is asking "Given that they both have whips, who is deadlier?", and the answer is exactly the same as to the question "Who is deadlier without the whip?", unless the whip makes a substantial difference to either combatant's deadliness. But that's just me being anal about literal meanings :P -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 22:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Meh, I do that stuff all the time. I think, however, that even in terms of literality, the battle summar is a bit clearer than that. By "Deadiler with the whip", I'm fairly certain that it means "deadlier while using the whip". MechaUltimaZero 13:08, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I'm perfectly aware that it does mean that. I'm only saying it for the purpose of being slightly annoying :) -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 19:15, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

What's up with the sexy vs. hot comment?Neo Bahamut 02:11, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

HOLY FUCK, QUISTIS IS WINNING!!! Barely, (by about two or three votes total), but still -- an VIII character is beating a IV character! The only thing better than this would be watching Gabranth nail Tifa (and no, I did not mean for any innuendo with that comment)! MechaUltimaZero 13:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, at least two votes for Rydia were deleted (don't know if more) so this is really a draw. However, many people took the battle as a "only whip attacks allowed" battle, and that made this more interesting. Sadly, we all know Quistis hasn't enough fans to compete with Rydia in a "normal" battle.
Doesn't help that Rydia is overhyped as all hell, and some of the people who like her don't even know what her canon personality is. PaladinCecil 19:06, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I'd say Rydia is kind, caring. A bit whiny and crying sometimes, but still strong. That about right, mi'lord? Drake Clawfang 19:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
That fits both her and Rosa, which I guess might have been your point? The critical difference is that people seem to think she's also the comforting, soothing, always loving and gentle and noble type when that's Rosa's territory. Rosa's also more reserved and tactical. As an adult, Rydia's more of a fiery, innocent, exotic, speak-her-mind type that tends to rush into things. I guess you could call Rosa "soft love" and Rydia "hard love." That's how I've always seen them. Two sides of the same coin. PaladinCecil 19:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
No, that wasn't my point at all, that's just how I see her. Once again I'm thinking you're seeing things that aren't there. Really, it's not Rosa's fault, it comes down to preferences. People like flawed heroes like Kain, Rydia, Cloud, etc. Characters who are largely unflawed like Rosa aren't very appealing. Rosa as a character doesn't really have any conflict or turmoil, so as a character she's cool, but not particularly interesting. Drake Clawfang 01:21, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, but some people seem to think that adult Rydia has all the same traits Rosa has when she doesn't. I could go on forever about the whole flawed versus unflawed, Batman versus Superman issue, but that wasn't really my focus. PaladinCecil 10:14, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Heh, once against we come to the not-so-grand battle of Rydia vs. Rosa. A fight in which I would support Rosa, simply because she was the main character's love interest. Personally, I don't really find Rydia all that attractive. Sorry, but the neon green just doesn't do anything for me. But in "Rydia vs. Quistis", neither of 'em REALLY do anything for me, but Quistis DOESN'T have green hair, AND she's a (edit: kinda) hot teacher. You've gotta admit that's awesome. MechaUltimaZero 16:28, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Dang, it's going to be close, thinks to the non-user support for Rydia.Xepscern Highwind

Anyone else notice that 8bit brings up a great point? Rydia's actually got a line in her game saying that she's got someone whipped! Does Quistis? Nope! Er... not that I can recall, at least ^.^; Yzz 02:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Certainly not, but it's said in the game that Quistis has trained as a SeeD since she was ten, using the whip as her preference weapon, and was a prodigy child. Rydia however is said in her game to have trained her black magic and summoning skills. As I said I like Rydia very much but I give more credit to a girl who has trained since little and mostly only depends on her whip (due her blue magic being accessible only as a limit break) than a girl who uses summons and black magic, even if she has an in game quote about whipping people, one has to be a real klutz to fail to be able to whip someone at least once after all. Celythia


Guys, we should delete some anon votes for not logging in their IP address. Isn't that against the rules??? Devil Breaker 03:45, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Week 118: Basch fon Ronsenburg v. Count Cidolfus Orlandeau[edit source]

FFXII Basch Render.png
DNC Versus.png
Orlandu.jpg
WINNER!
Basch
39 to 24½
There's got to be some connection here. They're both from Ivalice. They're both knightly. They both have cumbersomely long names.
FFXII Basch Render.png

Votes for Basch[edit source]

  1. I'm currently playing XII, so I'm biased. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 23:41, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. BlueHighwind : Basch taught me to be myself, even if being myself requires impersonating my late disturbed twin brother.
  3. Well, I have Final Fantasy XII and not Final Fantasy Tactics, so I'm sticking with Basch. Cluna 06 00:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  4. I never played Tactics, and Basch is awesome, so I vote for Basch.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 00:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  5. Easily the most interesting character of XII's main cast.(without the undeserved extra-hype like a "Leading Man" who'll remain nameless) And It's sucks he got screwed over as the Main character because Square's majority market clientele are Androgynous bishounen(is that redundant?)lovers. Cid's cool but most people like him because he's just Insanely powerful, he's not bad though. The A-Man
  6. Ser Orlandu, while awesome, makes the fourth chapter of Tactics very easy, and I'm not counting Balthier. ScatheMote 00:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  7. Sorry, TGC my boy, no matter how Godly you are, Basch here is more awesome. At least he doesnt get shoved at the back seat after he joins your party. And he can even be more invincible than you! Oh, Flame Purge rocks! With love, Leon5550 00:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  8. Thunder God Cid is by all means an atom bomb, but that's just it. Basch here is more relevant to his game, not to mention that he's also the coolest character as well (sorry to break your bubble, Balthier). This dude here is nigh-shakespearean, dammit!Winged Lion 00:57, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  9. Keiko2113 He's one of the best characters from XII. More of a leading man than Balthier was.
  10. IDK. Anyway because everyone's voting here. Revlolcakes.png ロル Lol Cakes オケス 02:11, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  11. Basch, this is way easy. I don't even really know much about the other one, but Basch is my favorite character in XII. George B. (talk) 02:45, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  12. Basch is one of the few people who saved FF12 list of good characters. That list only includes 2/3 of the main party and a handful of other characters. He stands as my second favorite character in the game, so I will obviously vote for him. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 03:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  13. Sora G. Strife 10:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC): HE didn't break my game.
  14. Oh yeah Basch is much cooler! Kuzlalala Squee! 10:58, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  15. DVRDNR - He's the true/pre-production leading man of XII.
  16. Neosamuel Even thou FF12 wasn't very good, Basch is still far more memorable, plus I acutaly used him in the party almost as soon as I got him and he stayed as my final group (with Vann and Penelo) for the rest of the game.
  17. Sevler425 Yeah Basch was pretty cool, he seemed like more of a leader than Vaan was and hes got some pretty sweet mists.
  18. AcidSnake Basch was more of an interesting character, considering he was betrayed by his own brother just to please his superior.
  19. Meta-Z I played XII, not Tactics. That, and Basch was one of the charactes I used, along with Ashe and Penelo.
  20. Who the F**K is this Count guy? I love XII so this guy wins. Blackwing11 19:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  21. SamSandy: I've played FF XII and not Tactics, so Basch is a natural choice for me. Plus, he's decently developed during the game, unlike several other party members, though I admit his story is quite a cliché.
  22. I always use Basch in FFXII: RW because he has Shining Ray and the Quickening Apocalypse Shield. I own FFT too but I haven't use Orlandeau yet. DieKorruption
  23. Basch Lives! That is all! TheBlueDragoon 05:17, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
  24. Basch is a man among men. Violetmage
  25. Because Basch is BADASS!  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 15:08, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
  26. Basch at least felt relevence. Although the Thunder God was good, he only had importance before he joins you. Like Auron, he was the over-powered, uninteresting old guy.--Werefang 19:09, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
  27. Simply because BASCHE ROCKS!!!! Derum
  28. Never heard of the other guy. The 6th angel
  29. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 15:51, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
  30. Although I hate to add to this landslide of a victory, I know next to nothing about Orlandeau. Another factor is, he is the twin brother of Noah. So yeah. Majyk 16:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
  31. He knows something of cages, the single greatest line in the game. It sounds like something out of Tolkien. Exdeath64 02:32, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
  32. Cryss Im Playing Through Tactics And I Havnt Found The Other Guy... Yet So Im A Little Biased But I Suppose I Will Lend A Vote To Basch As He Had Some Story And Wasnt Unlike Half The Party Sky Pirates, Wanna Be Sky Pirates Or Emotional Foils To Sky Pirates. Plus He Lived In A Cage In Some Pretty Crappy Conditions For A Long Time So He Gets Bonus Points For Sticking With It. Hell If I Find The Other Dude On FFTactics (Im Playing War Of The Lions) I Might Be Inclined To Have Given A Different Vote If This Was To Have Come At A Different Time.
  33. The Thunder God is awesome but Basch is one of the best heroes of the series, face it, he is the leading man. --TenzaZangetsu 11 May 2009(UTC)
  34. Basch is the only one i've met so far so go BaschRikloud 17:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
  35. I'll vote for Basch simply because I've never heard of the other guy. Take no offense. Blazelord
  36. Maverick Riot: TG Cid was amazingly powerful, but Basch is unique. He's not as clichéd. Basch has hidden depths and personality.
  37. "I know something of cages." Epic. - Paramina 17:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
  38. I don't know the other guy, but I think Basch was and is still cool. X-less-Nobody 10:14 15 May 2009 (UTC)
  39. Basch is awesome for reasons outside of pwning everything's face hardcore, which is really all Orlandu does. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

Knight of Archadia: yeah, I guess not too many people know about the other guy. I just vote fr basch cuz he managed to survive for years in a dungeon.

Votes for Orlandeau[edit source]

  1. Gramps! I'm with you, even if we lose! Karu
  2. Pity vote...from what I've heard, Orlandeau is a Sword Saint and could outmatch Basch in a sword duel (if that was ever to happen). Way too many people know Basch. Chocolancer 02:29, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  3. Because Stasis Sword, Lightning Stab and Holy Explosion = win. 8bit 02:41, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  4. Even at 15 levels below the average party level, he was still the best. --Gamer2127 02:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  5. a useful character in tactics... Cid is something!! never played ffxii... OnionKnight23
  6. Because he combines three swordskills into one with twice the power, holds Excalibur when you get him, and he's not just Cid, he's the THUNDER GOD Cid. Doesn't mean I don't like Basch, Orlandeau is just cooler. Yath 13:36 (1:36 PM), 8 May, 2009 (UTC)
  7. Orlandeau <3 Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 13:58, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  8. Orlaneau is far more overpowered than Basch. Besides, all Basch is good for is hitting things - his tiny caveman brain does not care for niceties such as subtlety or intelligence.The Man In The Black Cape 16:54, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  9. Ah C'mon dude! How the heck is Basch winning?! Orlandu is arguably the strongest protagonist in Final Fantasy history. Its almost sinful to use him in battle because he's so frickin' strong (like using Mewtwo in all your fights in Pokemon). Good ole' T.G. Cid by a LONG SHOT!Heretic Ramza
  10. Orlandeau is comparable to Beatrix from IX. Totally cheap. - Henryacores^ 20:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  11. Pikmin Master: You've GOT to be kidding me.
  12. ChaosEsperVII: It's TG Cid. His swordskill is unparalled.
  13. Basch may have more character development, but T. G. Cid is just too awexome NOT to vote for. Opario 01:56, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
  14. Shadowblade dealing 600 HP at level 55 = pwned. —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|05:11, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
  15. Orlandeau breaks the game. Basch does not. -Nokareon
  16. How the hell is Cid losing this battle!?! He is SO kickass! Words cannot explain in depth T.T He's awesome, so useful in battle, and great story. Also, I prefer Tactics by far over XII Yzz 22:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
  17. Just something about being tactical. The.DreadnoughT 17:36, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
  18. the sword saint...User:SOLDIER1stJ
  19. He's the Thunder God. Do I need another reason? — YuanSaluto!Acta 11:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
  20. Lockhart - TG Cid is unstoppable.
  21. The 4th anon vote said basically what I wanted to say. But I seriously feel the need to reiterate: Why is everyone saying Basch had such a good story? He was revealed to have an evil twin brother that was responsible for all the bad things he supposedly did. Say that to yourself a few times and tell me that's not a cop out, I DARE you! Cid might not be particularly well developed, but at least what development he did get wasn't nauseating.Neo Bahamut 01:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
  22. I wouldn't have beaten Final Fantasy Tactics without Orlandeau. He joined my party right when I was becoming sick of the game and needed a cheap victory strategy. Also, he's three of the best characters rolled into one. Basch is call and all, but I owe a whole victory to Orlandeau. ClixPsi 10:14, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
  23. I like both equally, so I'll pick the underdog.Xepscern Highwind

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. His skills kicked ass, Basch was just the same as anyone else. 78.148.130.100 18:32, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. As tough as Basch is, I just can't see him defeating "Thunder God Cid". Orlandu would win 10 seconds into the first round. Sorry Basch, but don't mess with the master!89.240.188.115 07:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
  3. Never played tactics, but i hated Basch 76.234.96.44 21:12, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

This one was accually hard to decide... Still, I have a feeling Basch'll win this in a landslide... Yath 13:38 (1:38 PM) 8 May, 2009 (UTC)

I really don't understand people who start bashing the voters of the other option when their own favorite is losing. Don't be pathetic sore losers, guys! :P SamSandy 20:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

because as ever the main reason for people voting for basch is because they haven't played tactics. if they had, they'd know how insanely powerful cid is and how pathetic basch is.
I don't vote characters based on their power in battle - and I don't need to play Tactics myself to know how broken Orlandeau is. I give my vote based on how interesting the character is, and to me, Orlandeau is just the typical overpowered mentor, although different from the norm in that he doesn't die in the course of the game. Bashing other people just because they don't share your opinion is childish and pathetic, anyway.SamSandy 18:33, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
I'll refrain from votingfor Basch, because I haven't played FFT. Suffice to say, Basch's picture is rather more impressive than Cid's (and not just 'cause it's less blurry) -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 22:27, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Cryss Ive Gotta Say Im Enjoying Tactics A Lot. Ive Only Really Just Got Into It. I Mean I Think I Played 10 Hours Last Week Lol. But I Levelled My Characters A Lot So I Think They Are Level 20ish And Ive Only Just Left Goug. But Still I Couldnt Finish XII I Tried Really Hard To Finish It But I Just Couldnt I Even Held Back And Levelled Up On That Too. They Were Level 40ish By The Time I Left Nalbina Dungeons Lol. And They Were Very Rich As Well. Maybe I Should Go Back To It Sometime. But It Will Take A Lot Of Willpower To Make Me Do That. So Story On Tactics Was Amazing Story On XII Acceptable But Leaves Me With A Bad Taste In My Mouth. Kinda Rambled There Sorry Lol

I'm commenting a lot today...okay, first, Cryss: Please, for the love of all things holy & non, USE NORMAL CAPITALIZATION RULES! Your text is an eyesore! I'd actually rather you never capitalize AT ALL, and have a shitload of spelling and grammar problems then talk like that. SamSandy: The other voters sort of deserve bashing when they express their complete ignorance of the other character, yet still show pride in their decision. It has nothing to do with whether or not the desired character is losing (if you'll notice, back in Jecht vs. Terra, I scolded both sides for voting with just the reasoning "they are better because they are better"), although that does irritate me, because it's the epitome of a graphics equals the game scenario. And Orlandeu is overpowered, but I fail to see how he's a mentor...except maybe to Orran...?Neo Bahamut 01:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
I've read through the Tactics storyline, although I haven't played the game myself. I didn't mean that Orlandeau was a mentor to someone specific, it's just his JRPG stereotype - the elderly wizened war veteran, who guides the younger heroes in battle. Just like Auron, Cyan, Steiner, Barret and many other Cids in the series. I still don't think it's cool to bash other people for their opinions here, no matter how poorly reasoned they are - these are just FF-characters we're talking about here, not politics. ;) SamSandy 21:13, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Alright, I can see that. And I'm sorry, but do you have any idea how annoying it is to keep hearing that Basch isn't cliche? They pulled the twin brother card! That's the oldest trick in the oldest VERSION of the book!Neo Bahamut 23:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Lol at the 4th annon vote for Cid. Altho I agree to what he says about him, lets not forget it's Basch who started all the mess in FFXII (indirectly) And the two characters are actually the mirror of each other. Albeit Basch have a bit more spotlight. So saying Basch/Cid stinks and have noting to do in the game is pretty dumb, both are the "invisible" driving force of their game. And uhh... "He (Cid) was the most useful character in the entire game with the only exception being Cloud" good luck playing FFT that way, pal. Leon5550 03:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I've got to agree with that last one. The SOLDIER job had slow techniques and weak armor. Cloud's least useful job was his special job so you might as well have used a genaric character.--Werefang 19:16, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Although I'm inclined to agree with you, a Job is useful depending on how you use it. Cloud's Finishing Touch, for example, is remarkably fast & successful for an instant-defeat move. Also, I fail to see how the characters "mirror" each other. They're famous hero archetypes, but that's about it. Really, Orlandeu DID have a lot to do with the game. People just tend to focus on what he does when he joins the party, not what he does while he's still an NPC. Basch, on the other hand, really didn't do anything except improperly fertilize an egg cell while a sperm, only to get screwed over by it later on.Neo Bahamut 01:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Can we switch the bright yellow and orange colours for something more fitting? @_@ —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|05:11, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Or at least which doesn't blind you? Seriously, neon stopped being cool in the '80s, or at some point in time like that. The.DreadnoughT 17:29, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Is it Cid or Cid's ridiculous usable power that's getting votes? I'm confused. Lol. It's like there's 3 characters in this match. A-to-the-M

That's because Cid IS two people. HAHAHA! Sorry I couldn't resist. ChaosEsperVII

Two people in that he has two physical bodies, or two people in that he's a schizoid? MechaUltimaZero

Two people for multiple personalities, I think ChaosEsper meant. Schizoid, I believe, referrs to a "schizophrenic," which means they imagine other people. People with multiple personalities imagine other versions of themselves. Of course, the professional English-speaker whose native language is English, twice might reply, we may both have the definition wrong, or I might, or something. The.DreadnoughT 21:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, it's more-or-less right. Schizophrenia doesn't necessarily have anything to do with imagining other people. It's basically that you hear your thoughts, but are unable to distinguish that they are actually coming from you, internally. Hence, you "hear voices." Also, I really hope that isn't what ChaosEsper meant, as it kinda makes no sense....Neo Bahamut 01:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
See? I knew you'd have something to say. Also, being psychic, I know that Neo Bahamut will at some point respond to this comment too. The.DreadnoughT 02:07, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, yeah. You're sort of goading me into responding.Neo Bahamut 03:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
I think he is refering to Orlandu's power and that he has the capacity to replace two characters.--Werefang 18:27, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Probably. But he really should have said 4 or 5. Although, to those looking to reduce Orlandeu's formidable power to that of an ordinary special: Take his Excalibur away. It has over 2x as much attack power as any other weapon you can get under ordinary circumstances.Neo Bahamut 23:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes puppets, ponder at my words! Yes I did mean that his power is enough for him to equal two people. Seriously, can you imagine if Orlandeau was schizophrenic? ChaosEsperVII

I find the fourth anon vote for Basch intriguing... -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 14:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Lol Where I Am From They Describe That As A Vote Fail. Cryss

Shouldn't it have "FAIL" written on it in 96pt Impact font then? :P -- Sorceror Nobody Flan.PNG 22:07, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I may be overstepping my authority on this a bit, but I went ahead & moved that. Ie mean, it's pretty obvious, and even if you can find some contrived way of saying it should be where it was, it won't make a difference. Orlandeu is, unfortunately, going to lose, largely because Basch is more popular, and people will look the other way while saying how powerful Basch is (which he isn't) while complaining about Orlandeu.Neo Bahamut 01:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
You know what? Only one of these anonymous votes SHOULDN'T have "FAIL" written on it in 96pt Impact font, actually- the eighth one for Cid whats'isface, 'cause that's the only one that happens to be signed properly. Don't unsigned anonyvotes not count? The.DreadnoughT 02:07, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't think they do. Which, really, can you actually expect a non-registered user to know that? Meh, regardless...I felt better moving the vote to where it belonged than to outright delete it. Don't ask me why. In any case, the actual move will have no real outcome, regardless of whether or not the vote is counted. I just did it 'cause it was annoying me, and it seemed more productive than making jokes about it.Neo Bahamut 03:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
I seriously had intended to move it, to be nice to the anonymous people, but when I'm not sure I have the authority to fix a problem, and don't want to fix it and get banned, I make fun of it until someone fixes it. That's just how I am. Oh, and, yes, you can, since the top of the page says "make sure to sign up your votes with '~~~~'", or something. The.DreadnoughT 21:44, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Alright, I guess you got me there. As for getting banned, meh, shit happens. Just call this a calculated risk.Neo Bahamut 23:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

And, Cryss, I agree with NB: is it really necessary to Capitalize Every Word You Ever Write? It Gets Hard To Understand Because Things Like Proper Nouns And Sentence Breaks (Full Stop Or A Period) Are Harder To Find. (but go ahead, if you still want to. I can deal with it, not being a "grammar Nazi"... unlike some people, who I am tempted to link, but won't.) The.DreadnoughT 02:07, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Grammar Naziism nothing. I don't know where the Hell that stupid typing tendency came from, but those who do it should be given the option to either quit or be shot. It's more infuriating than? that? thing some YouTube? tards do where they put question? marks at random points in the sentence? except for at the end of an actual? question. You know what I mean? don't you.Neo Bahamut 03:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
I do now, I guess. MechaUltimaZero 12:37, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
? ( The.DreadnoughT 21:44, 13 May 2009 (UTC))
There are a few general YouTube Tard style tendencies beyond chatspeak and mispellings. Essentially, There's The Talk Like This One and? the? talk like? this one where? the only place that can't get a? question mark is? where one would actually? go? Ugh, and don't even get me started on their style of arguing. "U type in paragraphs, so its 2 much 4 mi tiny mind to reed, but I'll pretend I know what I'm talking about, anyway! BTW, sense u type a lot, that makes u a idiot, + not me. Lol. I win. U phail. Go die." YouTubers will give you brain cancer. I swear to Ajora Glabados, bro.Neo Bahamut 23:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Cryss I apologise just i've become very used to capatalizing each word and I know some people have like super death threats against people who do it and want me shot ;)But in general I jut type faster capitalizing each word like its kinda my thing though. However for intens and purposes I can just change my writing style to make everyone happy hehe. Ill remember normal language for the DNC :) :P Anyway lets get back to points people this is the interblag not grammar naziism forum. To be honest I voted for Basch because I had no idea who the other guy is and to be honest I know thats an unfair way to do it.I mean I kinda like Basch but if it was any other character I doubt my vote would have gone for him unless it was for someone I truely hate and that would probably be off the top of my head Vann lol and I dont think many XII v XII fights occur. Who else who voted for Basch only did so because they didnt know who the other dude was because im kinda interested and how many actually play Tactics in general??? (Im playing through war of the lions right now lol) :)
Trust me, you were far from alone. Practically every other vote for Basch is talking about how they have no idea who Orlandeu is. The one about his picture annoyed me, although I chose not to comment, as I have to admit that Orlandeu's attire really isn't that impressive. As a matter of fact, that picture is by far the most badass one I've ever seen of the guy. His in-game sprite just kinda looks fat and stout, due to the graphical limitations, and the picture of him on the cover of the game is so bland.Neo Bahamut 04:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
EDIT: Sorry, but that thing just sort of sends me into a rage. >_> Kinda like one-sided DNC fights, & XII itself. (The Neo loves to push peoples' buttons.)Neo Bahamut 04:41, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, well, that certainly explains part of it. Because you see, I never go on YouTube, since I always have other stuff to do when I'm on the Net. But yeah, that's really annoying when you think about it. MechaUltimaZero 12:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


Neo Bahamut, you swear to who? The.DreadnoughT 23:36, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

In Final Fantasy Tactics, the game Orlandeu is from, Ajora Glabados was the central figure of the Mullonde Glabados Church. Think of it like the Catholic Church, and Ajora as Jesus. Like the Catholic Church, a lot of details about Ajora's life were distorted. (Spoilers start here.) Such as the fact that he was really a she, a spy who sold information to rival countries, and was truly the host of the leader of the Lucavi demons. (Spoilers end here.) Ajora is also referenced in FFXII, in one of the Clan Primer entries, as "founding a new sect of the Light of Kilitia," or whatever the Hell their religion is called. I felt it appropriate to use Ajora instead of--*dons fire hazard suit for imminent flaming*--Sephiroth, whom I usually substitute with God in that colliquialism.Neo Bahamut 04:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
EDIT: Also, you mean "whom." Not "who." "Who" is used whenever it's replacing the subject of the sentence. The subject of your sentence was me, Neo Bahamut. The object of your sentence was the pronoun replacing Ajora Glabados, which should be "whom," as it is an object. (The Neo is also a Grammar Nazi of epic proportions.)Neo Bahamut 04:41, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
That makes one of us, don't it? I have respect for grammar, but I am also an anti-Grammar Nazi. MechaUltimaZero 12:29, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Week 117: Selphie v. Rikku[edit source]

DNC Versus.png
Kh2-rikku.png
WINNER!
Rikku
40 to 22 1/2
There really wasn't a description for why this is suggested, but my guess is they are both the awkward girl archetype or maybe Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy X are locked in a bitter duel to the end here in the DNC for which was the better (or less terrible) game... maybe 'who wears yellow better?' Maybe some combination there-in.
Kh2-rikku.png

Votes for Selphie[edit source]

  1. I just love her "The End" limit break. Teh awesomest thing evar! :D - SilverSummonerTaLk 05:48, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  2. Besides Calcobrena, Selphie is the only FF character that scares me. Don't let the sugar and yellow fool you: She's insane. I paused for a minute to make sure I read things right when she started to scream about blowing things up during the presidential train assassination briefing. In battle, her Cure All was extremely useful, though I still didn't take her into my final party. ClixPsi
  3. Although Rikku is hotter, I felt that I connected more with Selphie's character, she seemed more real (even if equally annoying, sometimes!:p ). I don't know, Selphie brings back some memories that Rikku just doesn't. (although I love both games!) NeoSeth 11:11, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  4. Sevler425 Ok I would say Selphie because shes the underdog here. This is a pretty one sided fight due to how many people think Rikku is hot... Also I like Selphie because she is so hyper. It really makes the game interesting when she speaks lol.(But when it comes down to it both games are good.)
  5. I don't specially like Selphie, but I'm tired and bored of FFX/X-2. And well, for me, Selphie's sugar addiction is funny. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 18:27, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  6. BritBoy I prefer FFVIII but there isn't really much to choose between them in my opinion
  7. TRAINS! - +DeadlySlashSword+ 18:53, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  8. This was kinda hard, but i pick Selphie. She is nice, hyper, funny (ok, this is starting to sound like a dating show now) Plus, The End is my favorite Limit Break behind Lionheart, and it saved me quite a few times. And although i like Rikku, X-2 kinda ruined her for me. Gyromite 19:22, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  9. selphie alot more funny then the anoying fary girl. cloud 9000
  10. Yes, Selphie(and Rikku) are pretty annoying. Selphie is more tolerable, most of her antics are enteraining. Especially when she put on the music concert for Squall(I always opt for the Irish Jig). She's also cool enough to be pilot for the extrmely cool Ragnarok. Rikku stopped being cool after she removed her bodysuit and goggles and started speaking more. Anony
  11. I love them both soso much, they're both my idols<3 But you see, Selphie is less loved for god knows why... So she gets my vote. ~Train, train, take us away. Take us away, far away. To the future, we will go. Where it leads, no one knows~ Yzz 00:37, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
  12. I don't really care for either of them, so I'll just give the underdog my vote for the hell of it. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 03:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
  13. Skoot85 The End > Slutty-ness
  14. I guess because her weapon is cooler. (Nunchuku, not jump rope) BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 01:40, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
  15. I've always liked Selphie, I love her clumsyness and the way she always sings when on a train - Sencilia
  16. Although I love both of them, Selphie edges the cuteness for me. I also like that shes a clutz and has a pretty random take on everything. Ammyissun 13:27, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
  17. I'm with Selphie.
  18. Errr... Selphie!!! Onionknight23
  19. Selphie had more of a "real person quality" to me and everyone knows they are only gonna vote for Rikku because she apparently is hot. I had a problem with Rikku the moment she started talking. Plus, The End can kill any enemy in FFVIII, beat that!Winged Lion 22:39, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
  20. Selphie is funny, she is in FFVIII, she is useful in battle, she doesn't have a annoying voice and did mention that she is not Rikku?. --TenzaZangetsu 6 May 2009(UTC)
  21. while i think rikku is better character overall i'll have to give selphie my vote simply because of all the comedy relief she provided. that and i think she's the more useful one in combat due to her broken high level limit breaks (eg the end)- Eternal Breath
  22. Oh man. Really tough one-- I'm very fond of them both. Selphie by a nose, just because I find her cuter. Even though it's obvious she's gonna lose. George B. (talk) 23:02, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. 85.232.205.18 13:25, 30 April 2009 (UTC)FF VIII is better then FF X-2,we all know that.


Votes for Rikku[edit source]

  1. Take the most annoying girl you can imagine, make her hyper and pump a couple dozen suger-filled cups of coffee and pop into her. You have begun to grasp the nightmare that is Selphie. At least Rikku is hot in her X-2 outfit. Drake Clawfang 02:03, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. Rikku FTW, cause shes hawt. lol. And because Selphie's a douchebag Revlolcakes.png ロル Lol Cakes オケス 04:55, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  3. I just like Rikku more. She takes a more active approach in the story and has this great drive even if her people are hated by the Yevonites. She's also Yuna's cousin to boot! (And no, I never once told Wakka!) Cluna 06 04:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  4. The Rood Inverse 07:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC) Selphie is a annoying person clad in yellow. Nuff said. Rikku is hawt and has a a lot more character and depth.
  5. Rikku because she's such like a PPG! Kuzlalala Squee! 09:45, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  6. ScatheMote 10:58, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  7. User:Neosamuel She was much more memorable in Kingdom Hearts so ill go with her.
  8. I just wish people would shut-up about X being "bad." It's actually one of the few original FFs. 1-9 were all ripped off from the archetype fantasy.--Werefang 12:21, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  9. To anyone who knows me well, they'll tell you how much I love Rikku and how much I hate Selphie. Rikku is just the epitome of sexy. Yes I said it. Selphie, from the very beginning of Final Fantasy VIII just bugged the hell out of me. Selphie has a tendency to yell "Whoo-hoo!" And thats just one reason why I hate Selphie, so yeah, my vote is for the Desert Princess. Go Rikku! TheBlueDragoon
  10. Because I actually liked X-2. --Gamer2127 15:00, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  11. Rikku wins so hard. Both X and X-2 shes a great character, while Selphie just annoys me. (Why are they both in KH versions?) --Zephyrus11 15:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  12. Are you kidding me? Rikku was a lot more useful in battle and a lot cuter. Selphie was annoying. Despite FFVIII being the better game, Rikku wins hands down for me.--Heretic_Ramza
  13. Maverick Riot: Huzzah, way to get people really frustrated about who they hate more. Personally, I didn't mind either of them. I actually disliked Irvine more than Selphie, and liked all of the FFX cast really (Yes, even when Tidus whined). Rikku was one of my preferred characters as well. Guess it's because she's the polar opposite of me that makes it appealing. And maybe because Selphie's personality is actually due to an overdose of sugar, caffeine and LSD.
  14. Rikku is ownage, and her Overdrive is one of the most powerful of the series. - Henryacores^ 16:36, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  15. Go-go-go-go-go-go Rikku! Kick that ho's ass! Violetmage
  16. ChaosEsperVII: Both have their merits and their faults, but if Selphie had a voice actor I would mute the game. Plus, Rikku was useful in the end.
  17. Pikmin Master: What I don't understand about Selphie is why would she wield nunchucks. I've seen The End and I'm pretty impressed. But Rikku's better off for me because of her role as a chemist.
  18. Because even I'M more skilled with skipping ropes then Selphie is.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 19:44, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  19. I'm afraid Selphie lost me with her retarded train song. -Nokareon
  20. UHHHHHH.... Well I've always loved Rikku, and Selphie is just kinda... weird, yknow? Roxasxiii 22:17, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
  21. Kinda hard decision... but I s'pose Selphie was my second favourite character in FFVIII, while Rikku was my favourite character in FFX. We'll stick with that... -wtdrmfrthwbzn
  22. Battle of the hyper, bubbly girls! I have to go for Rkiku. (The Final Fantasy X version, not X-2.) Rikku is more fun. Selphie is a little less exciting.--JohnnyC 03:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
  23. SeKaLoYa 10:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC) Selphie is there just to give the party 6 people...Rikku is frickin sexy..there's that cutscene where she takes off her diving gear in front of Tidus.
  24. Despite how much I hate FFX (suck it fanboys in the Peanut Gallery!) Rikku was cute enough for me to grudgingly play through the game. ^^ —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|15:19, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
  25. Ok, I love VIII and X (though they are not my favs)... I always HATED Selphie! HATE her! All she does is sing about Trains! In X Yuna, Rikku, and Auron were my fav characters, and I have his thing where most any girl with dirty blonde hair is the hotest girl ever... hence, Rikku! yeah her X-2 bikini thing is sexy and all but i stil think she is best in X. So yeah i vote for The Godess of Beauty: RIKKU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Leonhart178 18:13, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
  26. Only played X and i thought Mix was pretty fun to mess around with... evn if it was a pain to work out. AtmaCrisis 02:49, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
  27. Rachael tazusa 09:53, 2 May 2009 (UTC) rikku is actually a pretty nice character, selphie....not so much
  28. User:clvabl I love Rikku!!!!
  29.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 01:53, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
  30. Because rikku isin't horribly weak like SelphieYuffie2211
  31. (a) Selphie is more annoying than Rikku, (b) Selphie has no backstory, (c) Rikku's Mix is more useful than Selphie's Slots and (d) Rikku is far more sexeh. That enough reasons? -- Sorceror Nobody, 20:53, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
  32. SamSandy Rikku has a better characterization, she's not just the bubbly girl of the group. Plus I've got to give her credit for making the combination of bikinis and neckscarf fashionable.
  33. Sora G. Strife: I've played VIII (and regret it), and Selphie was so very annoying, she made my PSP freeze.
  34. I'm going to have to go with Rikku here. She's less annoying and from a better game. --StragusLore 16:27, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
  35. CRAP! I forgot to enter last weeks. Anyway for this week I hate them both but if I had to choose it would be Rikku. --Blackwing11 22:38, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
  36. Majyk 03:23, 5 May 2009 (UTC) Lesser of two evils i'm afraid.
  37. There's only one person too chose, Rikku.I mean, SHE HAD THE BEST FREAKING LANGUAGE EVAR.-Culex, Dark Knight of Vanda
  38. Dragonszfriend 11:51, 5 May 2009 (UTC) I was having trouble deciding, and then I remembered that Selphie has next to no redeeming qualities, whereas Rikku has at least plot significance.
  39. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. 72.153.122.189 21:58, 1 May 2009 (UTC)Rikku,X-2,hotness
  2. Rikku is one of the most useful characters in X, and Selphie is part of the reason I stopped playing VIII just before the end of the first disc. 76.234.96.44 21:15, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

BlueHighwind : Abstains from voting. The only reason he can think of is that Rikku is about 1% sexier, which just isn't enough. A chair is 1% sexier than a couch.

Man, this fight is so boring. I wish if anyone could put up an insteresting fight, like Llyud v. Seymour (that fight reminds me of the battle between Groudon and Kyogre). MTC

Hrm. Having only played the demo of VIII, I can't really judge. However, I confess that I am in a similar situation as FinalAnnihilator here. Meta-Z

Actually, the only main characters that play much relevance in the story are Squall, Zell, and Rinoa (*wink* final party *wink*). Everyone else fades away... Irvine fails to assassinate the sorceress, after that, fades. Quistis fails as a teacher and fails to get Squall to open up to her, after that, fades. Selphie fails to save Trabia Garden, after that, fades. Not that its a bad thing, though. In fact, all Final Fantasies have characters who fade out. And Final don't worry about the fanboy wars. Although I think VII is the best of the series (dodges brick), I still appreciate each game for its merits and its faults. People don't understand that not everyone thinks like they do and must flame everyone else who doesn't adhere to their liking. Take each FF in stride and maybe the world will be a better place. Like Ivalice.... ChaosEsperVII
Wait, are you saying the world where theft is only illegal on certain days is better than this one? Kick out the goddamn Judge System and Ivalice is good, but that alone can ruin it at times. Like having Cyan in your party in FFVI; it drags everything else down the drain with it. The.DreadnoughT 16:34, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Aargh! Ivalice was good in FFT, the rest of II sucks balls! >_< I agree with the main premise, though: Having the TAs, and to a lesser (but still pretty big IMHO) extent XII, associated with FFT brings the original Ivalice down.Neo Bahamut 23:29, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Yeah I meant FFT, I wouldn't touch TA with a stick... I like the Ivalice of XII also. But yeah, I wish FFT and XII where the ONLY members of Ivalice Alliance. ChaosEsperVII
I get a little pissy when the subject of FFTA comes up. <_< Really, I hated XII too, but at least it made a piss poor attempt to at least act like a distant prequal.Neo Bahamut 21:54, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
I know what you mean.... Although its not a main game, they should include Ramza and Delita in Dissidia. Or Ramza and Wiegraf. Or Volmarv. Or Orlandeau. Or St. Ajora. Or..... ChaosEsperVII

Both are annoying. Karu

Ok, I'll admit I'm a Rikku fanboy. However, each game had its faults and its good points. My personal favorites are VI, VII and X. Each game has something wrong with it. I've been playing FF since I was little, and the only character I truly hate in the series is Quina Quen from FFIX. Serves zero purpose story wise, and is a terrible fighter, and an even worse mage as some of her Blue spells take forever to learn. I like the series because each game is pretty much unique. I just don't like Selphie on a personal level. I have nothing against her except she annoys me with constant "whoo-hoos!" Other than that, I have nothing to say about her. As ChaosEsper said, take each game in stride. Everyone won't agree with you, on anything. Its just that simple. we all have our favorite characters, mine being the best dragoon ever, Kain Highwind. TheBlueDragoon 18:34, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I love Quina, she's really funny, ñam. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 01:04, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't care for most of her skills, although her Earth and Wind attacks are invaluable. Some are hard to use or just impossible. Overall, the FF series is one filled with memorable characters, but I still stand by Kain and Rikku as the best male and female characters in the series. TheBlueDragoon 03:17, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Quina just takes a bit more to master than any other char. After that, he/she/it is the only mage you need. When I first played with... with... with that I thought that was useless, but it has some of the best skills and can cause tons of damage if well used Zak Undersn 10:21, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

As the one who suggested this fight, I shed some light on why I suggested it. I actually forgot, so I hunted for the quote when I originally posted it, months ago. "Which bubbly, energetic girl is more annoying?" - +DeadlySlashSword+ 19:01, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

the answer to that is obviously Selphie, judging by the votes. TheBlueDragoon 19:05, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

FFX sucks because of fanbois like the ones makes TL;DR rants. :D Oh, and Wakka. That bastard. —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|15:19, 1 May 2009

(UTC)

Play games before criticising them!! :D FinalAnnihilator
FinalAnnihilator, you are the one who said in your vote that you had never played FFVIII, yet you criticized Selphie's character, see that's what we call being incongruent and a hypocrite.Winged Lion 22:45, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Oh really? Do you know what criticize means? According to your comment, no. I never said FF8 sucks. Try to read more carefully. I said I took the side of FFX because I haven't played FFVIII... and I said the "play games before criticizing them" because, I hadn't read Bfd's FF completions yet, ok my mistake, but that didn't go only towards her. Once again, I did NOT criticize Selphie's character, I just prefered Rikku because I DO know a thing or two about that character... The Final Annihilator

Sevler425 This fight is kinda a one sided fight, but Selphie is really annoying too. I voted VIII because X-2 kinda ruined that series, i think they could've done that differently (like not make it at all).

The fight is onesided. X-2 may have ruined it, but I liked it. I just wish they had more jobs. They had Dark Knight but not Dragoon and Paladin

Sevler425 Yeah thats true i just didn't like the way they did it with the movie spheres and stuff like that, it was so different from X so i just thought it would be kinda similar but it really wasn't at all. The job system was kinda cool but i agree the needed at least dragoon.

I'm gonna ignore all of the other comments for now, as well as voting (not that it would matter, anyway) and bring up 2 points of interest: 1) Why are we using the KH models for this? Selphie is using a jump rope, & Rikku is LITERALLY a fairy. For that matter, why the Hell do we use KH Sephiroth in the banner? Sure, it looks cool, but I'm sure we could find better pictures that are FF-based. 2) Why does Tactic Angel seem to go for fights that are going to be terribly one-sided? I don't mean to make a personal attack against the guy, but damn, there were a lot of options that were better than this....Neo Bahamut 22:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

If you don't like it, you don't have to participate. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 06:41, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Similarly, if you don't have a response to the actual comment, you don't need to reply to it.Neo Bahamut 07:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
If I didn't have a response, I wouldn't have replied. I'm telling you to quit whining. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 10:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not whining, I'm voicing a legitimate concern, as well as my opinion. You are essentially telling me to shut the fuck up. That is why I did not consider you to be responding. A response is a reply to what is there. What you were doing was more of an interjection.Neo Bahamut 23:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
now you're going into semantics which is childish and pointless. ever thought of shutting up? 89.240.154.139 17:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Have you? Also: Stop whining. >_> Can someone say something that ISN'T a ridiculous accusation that I can just throw back in their faces? Please? <_<Neo Bahamut 21:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Not everyone hates all of the characters. In fact, It isn't one sided at first glance because the only people who ever comment about these characters always talk about how much they "suck."--Werefang 23:50, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
When I say "one sided," I don't mean that there are no dissenting opinions, I mean that one character is winning in a landslide. Which is exactly what's happening now. All of the "Rikku is hot" votes sort of annoy me, especially because she was kind of creepy and waaaay too slutty in X-2, but still.Neo Bahamut 23:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
And you were ignoring what I was saying. You spoke as though it was obviously a landslide from the start. I am saying that it was not at first (in fact the first vote was for Selfie). According to popular opinion, both of these characters are hated for the same reason. And most people bitch and moan about there never being a winner. According to what you're saying, you're pissed that there aren't more ties. You can't have everything your way.--Werefang 02:15, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I didn't ignore what you said, I simply misinterpreted your meaning. Yes, that makes more sense. I can understand that they all probably seemed like a good idea at the start, but some (Yevon vs. Shinra) should have been obvious. I think so, anyway. And I'm not saying "tie all the time," I'm just saying that it's more interesting when the votes are closer. We all know that Rikku is going to win, so there's really no point in coming back here, except to bitch at what I say in the Peanut Gallery, apparently.Neo Bahamut 02:25, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Man, can't decide who to vote for...Guess this one requires some thinking. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 02:45, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
OMG Selphie's gonna be crushed!!!!Devil Breaker 09:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I refuse to actually vote here (because I just remembered that if you spoil the ballot here, your votes are removed...) because both characters are useless in my opinion. The only two characters in this grouping I ever came close to finding useful were Relm and Yuffie. And they were the two least annoying such characters; all the others tie for most annoying. (Actually, for "third most annoying," after Shara (second) and Captain Whiny Dumbshit.) The.DreadnoughT 16:34, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, just because Firefox seems to be screwing up some of the text (headings, stuff like that) with formatting here, but not on, say, the C&C Wiki (which used to have the same formatting/whatever,) did someone change what those format-template-kitchen-sink things do here? The.DreadnoughT 17:59, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

you guys need to get a life.

So states someone who comes onto a fan-wiki just to antaganize these afformentioned fans.--Werefang 23:57, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

How can Selphie be losing?! She has hair that defies gravity, what more could anyone want? Ammyissun 22:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


Week 116: Fighters v. Mages[edit source]

Ingus-Knight.png
DNC Versus.png
Arc-BlackMage.png
WINNER!
DRAW
37 to 38½
Not so much Fighter versus Mage, but which are you? Do you prefer the tough, physical damage dealer or the apparently frail characters with hidden, mystical potential?

Votes for Fighters[edit source]

  1. Because fighters can hit and be hit. Mages can only do half of the job. Leon5550 05:37, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  2. There's No MP limit for swords. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  3. Fighters are just more fun and generally are cooler characters as well. That goes for any game. Kicking chumps into outer space is always funnier than sitting back and throwing spells at it. Though seeing more RPGs with straight Mage-type MAIN characters would be cool not too many around. AnonyMan
  4. I like the fighters better. Usually I try to defeat my enemies dealing physical damage, but if it fails, I turn to magic, and not the other way around. Kudos for Mages, as well, as a FF party would be nothing without them! NeoSeth 09:09, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  5. Well some fighters can use magic and be hard hitters.User:Sasukekunai18:17, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  6. In comparison to ClixPsi's post above, I tend to agree that physical attackers are much better than mages. Sure, the fighter styled classes tend to lack big powerful moves, but they tend to get great abilities. Key point for this: Sabin's Phantom Rush. Deals almost as much as a Ultima spell, but costs much less than 80 MP... -_-; Sure, some might argue: 'Oh, but Ultima hits all enemies', true, but it still doesn't affect the fact that Phantom Rush costs NOTHING but a very easy roll of the controlpad (Or multiple single pushes of the direction).Yath 13:18 (1:18 PM) April 22, 2009 (UTC)
  7. FinalAnnihilator: Well, my vote surely goes to the melee classes. They are the ones that will kill the superbosses in the end. Most superbosses have elemental immunities, and in the end you will see that the superbosses are not as secondary as they seem. And along with them, that makes the warriors the most useful characters. But of course, casters in this case, are also used for healing, but this is clearly secondary so...
  8. I'm not really into magic... i like characters that holds strong weapons... OnionKnight23
  9. Because there's nothing more annoying than running out of MP halfway through a dungeon. Jeppo 15:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  10. I prefer physical damage and beautiful weapons. Karu
  11. BlueHighwind : JuJu la la peepod beebop beboop HAHAHAHAHA!
  12. On an unrelated but coincidentally similar note, E ahzuo jeumahla. Master Conjurer 22:53, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  13. I usually just attack. Magic is supplemental.--Werefang 23:12, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  14. My teams are usually made up of three fighters and one mage. Fighters clearly take priority for me. Mages are too limited due to MP. A full team of mages would never survive in a dungeon except with a bag load of ethers.--JohnnyC 23:15, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  15. Physical damage dealers are much more badass. Cluna 06 23:43, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  16. Fencers are physical attackers. So are people who use their bare hands. So is Cid Highwind. So is (human, but questioning of it) Sephiroth, other than when he casts Meteor. So is Locke (if thieves are fighters. I say Locke is anyway, 'cause he can use the Illumina and the Ragnarok.) So is Shadow, even if he's throwing Shurikens at people. On the other hand, most of the really cool mages are either at least half fighters (Terra, Chrono Trigger Magus) or something else not magic related, or they happen to be pure-mage actually-useful main characters who end up permanently dead (Aeris) or else who the player ALLOWS to be permanently dead, because the death scene is hilarious and they aren't vital (Montblanc in FFTA.) And there is no reflect for "Fight." Nor can anything "absorb" physical attacks. And they cost no MP. And Omnislash is also a physical attack. Enough said? The.DreadnoughT 00:37, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
  17. Because they have the badass Dark Knight. --TenzaZangetsu 23 April 2009(UTC)
  18. Even though Montblanc is part of the mages, and I would like to use some magick, I prefer fighters. I like their sharp-bladed swords. They also wear strong armor. Unlike the mages, which wear robes and equip rods. Kuzlalala Squee! 09:29, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
  19. Fighters can kill mages while they cast spells. User:Lutheran 18:59, 23 April 2009
  20. Not wanting to be a bit of a cliche but... I like swords ;P AtmaCrisis 11:05, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
  21. Sora G. Strife 14:04, 23 April 2009 (UTC)I suck at magic in Dissidia, and that's why I use Jecht. And any other melee-oriented class/character.
  22. Sevler425 I Defiantly prefer physical over Magic, I like to know that I have full control of Set Weapon.
  23. Dragoons. Fighters come in many classes. I prefer the fighter to the mage, but its just not a party without both elements.TheBlueDragoon
  24. Mages hide behind fighters casting magic, how cowardly.Also an 8-bit theater reference.. I LIKE SWORDS. JudgeMasterKefka
  25. I really wanted to vote mages, but the truth is that the physical power of fighters is always reliable. RowdyCMoore
  26. Knights alone are one the strongest defensive class in FFIII, and they have a very high strength. But as a whole, Mages are too weak, if they could cast more than a couple spells before being useless, maybe, but knights do the same ammount of damages as many times as they can. Cloudofdarkness was [| here]
  27. In games I like using a mixture of both (as a party). And overall my most favorite job class is the Blue Mage (they're just awesome). But if it came down to it I like the Fighters better. A tank that could just storm the battlefield without worrying about being killed off by enemy physical attacks, or by spells flung at you by the opponent. And at the same time they could slash and dash to take down the enemy. And their reserves for attacking is practically unlimited, needing no MP. Don't get me wrong mages are awesome and when in the end it comes down to the detail (and could really go either way), but I just like Fighters better. This should end up in a tie... Ozark0816 01:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
  28. Really, melee versus magic? It's pretty darn obvious who would win. Melee has strong melee attack while mages have low defense. Pwned. User:Dornob25 12:13, 25 April 2009 (Pacific time)
  29. Well, a good party member should be able to dish it out and take it, which mages can't normally do, and Black Mages and White Mages make horrable Tanks. Plus Swords are great.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 12:59, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
  30. Fighters are more useful in normal fights. Myself 123 14:02, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
  31. Fighters would pwn mages and can use use weapons like Ultima Weapon and Save the Queen. But Mages are limited and when theyre magic runs out they are useless.Zidane
  32. SeKaLoYa 13:57, 27 April 2009 (UTC) I wonder why they used the pictures from FFT. Maybe because Ivalice Alliance games emphasize jobs the most.
  33. User:Kin of Choas they can keep fighting after the mps gone.
  34. FFIX, Desert Palace; the game makes you split up your team because Oilvert has an anti-magic field. My team of fighters was far superior, and everyone in my file was around the same level. And 'cause I hate DNC draws.BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|20:31, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
  35. I guess I vote for Fighters. Scent Mages have enough votes.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 23:36, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
  36. Dragoon! T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L
  37. Rachael tazusa 09:57, 2 May 2009 (UTC) i never really liked being a mage in the games i played but ive got to admit they are pretty usefull but i have a fighter's heart soo...

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. 216.115.125.169 Most of my end game characters had the best damage cap in the games i've played. Plus Jeppo summed it up.
  2. 74.72.34.95 All I know is. . .I like Swords

Votes for Mages[edit source]

  1. I'm more partial to a mix of both, but flashy powers that can destroy the general landscape itself>wailing on somebody with a mace/sword/fist/etc.Neo Bahamut 05:43, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  2. I'm currently playing FF6 and the fighters there are pretty meh compared to the mages there. Lolcakes 05:56, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  3. Mages and Fighters are both cool. But, the Mages have the likes of Rydia, Terra, Aerith, Vivi, Golbez and Blackmage Evilwizardington. The Fighters are stuck with scrubs like Sesshiroth, Cyan, Umaro and Zell. In fact, the only fighters I really like are Cloud, Beatrix and Kain, and Zidane if you count Thieves as fighters. Anyway, Mages > Fighters.
  4. Swords are real. Magic is not. CookiePinguy 07:37, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  5. Summoners, Black Mages, Blue Mages, White Mages and friends against those pitiful warriors? Doesn't feel right. - Henryacores^ 09:00, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  6. I love both. I love the fury, the reflexes, the aplomb, the will of protect someone with your body even at the expense of your life... parrying, dodging, counterattacking... all that things that involves a melee fight. But I also love the caution, the patience, the strategy, the capacity to put your hand in someone's face and burn it into ashes or heal all his/her wounds... the cunning of create combos with the magic's effects... all that things that involves a magic fight. That's why my favourite class is Dark Knight, a offensive melee warrior with magic powers that never hesitate to sacriface him/herself. But if I have to choose one side, I think I have to choose the mysticism and the possibilities that magic offers to a fidget imagination like mine's. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 14:08, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  7. I always preffered the Mages, heck, I always preffered Magic-using classes in any game. Pure-Moneo 14:22, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  8. Art is a BLAST. And Mages can make some blasting and flashy stuff. :D - SilverSummonerTaLk 14:40, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  9. I love magic in general and would much rather blast my foes with Ultima or summon Bahamut as oposed to swinging an oversized sword or walking around in 80lbs of armor.User:Neosamuel
  10. ScatheMote 19:46, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  11. Magic is just a lot more fun to kill people than swords. You get to watch them explode instead of just slowly drowning in their own blood. If you can do both magic and sword-slashing, then I would give my soul to learn your secrets. All mystic knights automatically gain my respect, but magic by itself is powerful enough. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 20:33, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  12. Both have a certain appeal to me. Mages edge ahead because of their ability to shoot fire from their hands. SilverDragon28 21:09, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  13. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 22:09, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  14. User:RainbowCecil88 18:15, 22 April 2009 I AM THE BLACK MAGE! I CASTS THE SPELLS THAT MAKES THE PEOPLES FALL DOWN! You can never go wrong with that!
  15. Skoot85 IT'S MAGIC (Harry Potter + Final Fantasy = Mage Fan)
  16. Magic is flashier, it's more versatile, it takes advantage of elements more efficiently, it can heal, it bestows positive status effects, and there are summons. Which own. And there's Vivi. 8bit 00:01, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
  17. Rydiaofmist Definitely magic users!
  18. Magic is just more fun. You can do more than just hit "Fight" every turn, too. There's different spells to choose from and just like... Wow :3 Yzz 03:32, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
  19. I...I like both. But in the end I love magic more. Really, all fighters do is attack. Mages heal and inflict statuses and buff the party and use elements and Flare and Ultima and...yes. Fayth of the Turtles 04:24, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
  20. Fighters are tough, and once they get close enough, the battle gets rough, but how will they get close with blasts of Ultima and Holy tearing them apart, with no White Mage to assist them before their all down? Gyromite 06:37, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
  21. Tragedian Can a sword and shield really stand up to Meteor, Flare, and Holy? Don't think so.
  22. Devil Breaker 07:39, 23 April 2009 (UTC)Mages are like the most critical part of a team. You can't lose a mage in battle, coz you need him/her. And Mages are Badasses especially in FFV... Be a Red Mage, get DualCast, then a Black Mage, and DualCast METEOR!!!! Uwheeheehee
  23. MechaUltimaZero I generally prefer classes such as Dark Knight, which is sort of a fusion between the two, but since Dark Knight is closer to Black Mage then to, say, Warrior or Dragoon, I'm going to stick with Mage here. But that's just because Dark Knight is closer to Mage than Fighter.
  24. DreamDevout 15:50, 23 April 2009 (UTC) Mages, because magic looks and sounds cool. And robes look better than armor. Plus, they require more thought to use than fighters.
  25. Nokareon: Because even the toughest fighter would die without a White Mage to heal him/her.
  26. Ultima and Holy. Nuff' said. Violetmage
  27. Brute Strength Cannot Beat The Almighty Power Of Magic. OwlEye 00:39, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
  28. I choose these mystical mages ( Rosa / Rydia / Tellah / Terra / Celes / Aerith / Vivi ) over the tough fighters ( Cecil / Kain / Edge / Locke / Edgar / Cyan / Cloud / Zidane ) because A) their magic is more exotic than fighters attacks presentation-wise B) magic is an extreme damaging ability C) they can upgrade their skills better & faster than fighters. GabbianiSoul
  29. --Rufus Shinra4245 18:53, 24 April 2009 (UTC)i would say mages because even though it is MP based you always carry MP potions right?? Haha
  30. Firionklauser: much as i love melee-class characters, mages are simply cooler. i join others in the hope that a pure mage could be a main character in the series. (unless it's already been done, which escapes my knowledge)
  31. User:Sera89 Mages. Duh?
  32. GigaFlare 10:16, 26 April 2009 (UTC):Mages simply have better skills, and their robes usually have some sort of enhancing power anyway. And if you combine classes and their skills, then you get some pretty mean combos of magic!
  33. A thousand time mages, summonners can destroy towns and white mages can resurrect/heal, what else do we need? Warriors can slash/punch people, oh great...Badag 14:25, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
  34. Because I always had a Mage in my party, White or Black, and it usually got the last blow on the enemy with a spell or saved my ass from impending doom with a well timed heal (not to mention Vivi never left my party, when available <3) User:Leiber_Mage
  35. SamSandy: I'm not fit to even lift a sword, and I've always found magic much, much more intriguing than physical combat. So yes, a mage I be!
  36. My FFTa2 party consists of mostly illusionists (pluss some time/white/summoners) and ends allmost all battles after 3-4 actions. What fighter party can say the same. Range, multiple targets, versitality, buffs/debuffs. I use mages for all possible positions, whenever possible. MP? Allmost all the games contain one or two ways to get half/no mp cost. Osmose/drain takes care of the rest. The Rood Inverse 14:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
  37. they can make things go boom. Good enough for me--Enigmatic Mystery in a Cloak 19:26, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. 58.69.0.253 03:25, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
  2. 195.158.85.248 21:06, 23 April 2009 (UTC) Mages and fighter are usually a good combination but I prefer to have spells like procect and cure,in my party I always have a mage who can heal and my fighter attacking though mages can be on the offensive especially with Flare,meteor,holy and other stuff(nice spells)I think that a party can do somewhat without a fighter.
  3. 174.88.156.246

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

First comment, yay! As my vote sort of hints at, I'm kind of curious as to where the distinction lies. Red Mages, Spellblades, & the like are kind of both, as are most characters in most of the later titles. (VI & beyond? Don't quote me on that.)Neo Bahamut 05:43, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

To that SeKaLoYa voter: Those are not from FFT. FFTA maybe, but not FFT. I wish people would stop calling FFTA FFT. Or even referring to Ivalice like they know it from XII & the TAs. They completely ruined it.Neo Bahamut 23:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

"Swords are real. Magic is not" That's why magic is awesome pal ;D CookiePinguy 07:39, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

And Mages makes you actually think than always hiting the "A" ("X" whatever) Button XD CookiePinguy 07:40, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, you have to choose which nuke to use before you start mashing the action button. Unless you might need another specific spell. AnonyMan 08:51, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Try deafeat a super boss "mashing" the action button and see if that works ;) CookiePinguy 16:11, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Really well, accually. XD Yath 17:10 (5:10 PM), 22 April 2009 (UTC)
I did. Against Chaos in FFI. And the new secret bosses.--Werefang 23:24, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
I said Super Boss, not Remaked tuned-down Boss or Fighted with abused leveled characters. Learn the difrence. CookiePinguy 08:32, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Fighted with abused leveled characters. Ya know, you didn't specify that before, and that really DOESN'T make a huge difference if it's an overleveled fighter or a overleveled mage, they'd still stick to their strengths. 13:44 (1:34 PM), 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Because someone has to say it, "fighted" isn't a word.Neo Bahamut 20:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Now, now. Don't nitpick. Besides, there are too many spelling and grammer mistakes to count.--Werefang 12:14, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I have to. I'm a grammar nazi. It's what we do. Now stop using sentence fragments, or I will zyklon-b your ass.Neo Bahamut 00:42, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
No, you think you had to do that because of what i said about your prespective days ago and you "tried" to nitpick me, this is the internet, there are so little typos around here that make your excuse patetic.

oh and Mr. Neo "Do you just not know how to read?" Bahamut i said that you were sad because not because you didn't want to play the game, but that you hate a game that you didn't play, stating a opinion about something that we don't know it's just wrong. Just get over it. I'm not the first guy and i will not be the last person to critisize somebody around here. CookiePinguy 21:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

No, I did it because I'm a grammar nazi. 9 times out of 10, I don't even look at usernames. You do not know the reason I do things. You are not psychic. Stop acting like it. And I don't hate FFVI. I never said I did. I did, however, say that I was trying to borrow it from a friend to give it a try. If you're going to try to quote mine me, do it right. Really, your commentary is quite ironic. You are so pissed off at me that you automatically assume that, because I corrected your grammar, I must be holding a grudge against you. THIS is how you throw someone's argument in their face: "Just get over it. I'm not the first guy, & I will not be the last, to criticize somebody around here." Sheesh, and to think that all of this started because I criticized FFVI for being overrated. There's more butthurt here than in San Francisco.Neo Bahamut 23:08, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
For me fine that wasn't the point i wanted to argue, i still wonder why didn't you say that in the first place instead of the circus you did, when i wasn't even talking to you, but ok, i didn't come here for problems, my real life is enough. And just for saying, not everyone here is a native english, so english is something that we don't use on a daily basis, so sometimes we do some mistakes when writing, specially on the Internet where it's very different for example on professional matters. CookiePinguy 06:59, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
I am arguing. I'm just doing it in a very assholeish way. Now, what on Earth are you talking about? Everything in that rant I stated before, plain as day. And, if you recall, the first comment made to you was me wondering whether or not you were talking to me, but not particularly caring, as either way, your remark made me facepalmheaddesk. Not quite as much as that guy who told me to die, though.Neo Bahamut 23:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Meh, just a little misunderstand. And sorry for make you facepalmheaddesk, hope your head's alright. CookiePinguy 21:51, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
O...kay...?Neo Bahamut 23:59, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Like I said in my vote, fighters are the true power at post-final boss content of Final Fantasies. Correct me of course, the only Final Fantasies I have played are VII X X-2 and XII, so I can't be sure, but in those cases, melee damage is the true power. But, I was partially 50-50 because of one reason: let's not forget how important mages are during the main storyline part of the game! FinalAnnihilator

You're partially right, but, but look at FFVI, the main hero is Terra, a Mage! Pure-Moneo 14:27, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
No, at most Terra is a Fighting Mage(Emphasis on Fighting). She can learn Magic but she also has decent physical stats and can equip lots of Armors and what not. In fact she'd classify better as a Fighter than Mage. AnonyMan
Based on what I've seen and heard she is a Red Mage (which neither excel as fighters or mages; just saying).--Werefang 23:24, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Uhmmm I agree that Terra's a Red Mage but I disagree on the last part... (you know also, just saying) coz Terra's Magic stat is high, which ofcourse is the opposite of her Strength stat which is kind of mediocre, that's why she can do loads of damage in Magic but she can also do a lot of damage with fighting. In other words, She excels in Magic more than She excels in Fighting.... Also another prominent Red Mage is Scott from FFII (already-known trivia by others...).Devil Breaker 07:47, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
You want Red Mages? Pick a character in FFVII, any FFVII character. Because of the way materia works, that's what everyone is.Neo Bahamut 21:47, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Don't forget II, VI, VIII, X, and XII. All can be Red Mages, really. AnonyMan 22:30, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
And Tactics. Just take a White Mage and select Black Magick as Job Command or viceversa. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 22:57, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
That isn't what a Red Mage is. And since each class has different stats in Tactics, magic basically becomes shit whenever you try to give it to a knight. But nice try. AnonyMan: I only said VII because it was the only one I felt I knew enough, but on second thought, you're right about XII. Not so much X, though. Eventually, yes, you can even everyone's stats around, but they're definately set into specific classes, both with initial stats & with sphere grid paths.Neo Bahamut 02:07, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that is technically a Sage. But if you set equip sword to him, it would essentially be a red mage.--Werefang 19:27, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Essentially. Depends on the Brave level.Neo Bahamut 20:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
It's easy to modify Bravery and Faith with a Orator. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 00:40, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Orators? Fuck that noise. That shit takes too long. Faith is easy, just add Beowulf. Also, Pure-Moneo & AnonyMan: YOU MENTIONED TERRA! I MUST YELL AT YOU TO BALANCE THE FANFAGGOTRY UNFOLDING ON THESE COMMENTS! ...Come to think of it, I just did. Carry on, then, nothing to see here....Neo Bahamut 01:33, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Red. Mage. Rocks. Although messing with reality is just awesome. But you can't do a cool pose with a staff, while you can with a sword, and that's why Red Mages rule. They can mess with the very fabric of reality itself while they do a cool pose, they are just Redmagetastic ((c) me). That said, i'm not gonna vote, that would be betraying them. Zak Undersn 15:13, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

This is a tough choice. Fighters are meat-heads that can only swing swords around, but even though mages are the source of ultimate power and magic, they are limited by MP. How can I choose? - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 20:27, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

MP limits: 1 MP cost, no MP cost (sometimes), mana regeneration accessories, and ethers. Cool poses: When Aerith uses Healing Wind, her staff floats in front of her. I always thought that was pretty damn cool. Superbosses: Umm...physical attacks do great damage...how? Those bosses usually have great physical defenses. Elemental affinities don't really matter, with spells like Ultima. And I'm specifically questioning using VII as an example. Ruby Weapon is easily brought down with a combination of Hades & Knights of the Round castings.Neo Bahamut 21:22, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

And Aspir exists. However, FFVII is a really bad example for bad mages, when you have support materias as MP Absorb, MP Turbo, Quadra Magic... or the famous/infamous combo: Knights of the Round+HP Absorb & Mimic. W Magic is useful too (W Magic & Ultima+Quadra Magic =8xUltima, then you mimic and...). The only game I rarely used magic is FFVIII because I love junctions, and commands as Recover and Revive are really useful, making magic, many times, unnecessary. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 22:42, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that's true, as well. The materia system was fun to screw around with, but the game balance was really, really bad. I mean what, besides Ruby & Emerald Weapons, is going to survive 2 castings of Knights of the Round?Neo Bahamut 23:10, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Kane from C&C. He's been "killed" three or four times now, and is still alive. You see, Kane lives in death! (You just got Command & Conquered, <insert insult here>!) The.DreadnoughT 00:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Just wondering, because this could affect my vote: are Gunners technically a form of indirect fighter, or just not involved? The.DreadnoughT 22:20, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Gunners are rangers I think. If they were in either section, they would be fighters, but not really.EDIT: I think it should be thought of this way: Do you use physical strikes or magic attacks more.--Werefang 23:17, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. Gunners aren't involved, then. (The bullets, however, are physical attackers, right?) The.DreadnoughT 00:23, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


I can't decide. I Like both fighters and mages and I likes swords and Magic. What should I choose?  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 00:02, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Spoil the ballot. Vote for both, and then they won't count! (Spoiling the ballot is more politically relevant then abstaining is, apparently. Or so they taught me in Civics, anyway.)
And to Ninja of Wind's vote: If I can bring Chrono Trigger into this, then I have just one word to say: Magus. Otherwise, there are three ways to do that: Be a character from FFVI able to equip the Illumina (or whatever the hell it got renamed in the GBA version, Lightbulb or something like that) or Ragnarok, so you can use a big physical and random-cast "Pearl" (Holy) or Flare at the same time. The second method is to be Terra, particularly with said weapons. The third method involves Materia. Or go play Tactics Advance, get out a Viera, go learn the Summons, Elemental magic, Red magic, and White magic, then go make her be a Fencer or Assassin (This also works with a Human and Black, White, Blue (if you have the patience; I don't,) magic, and Phantasm Skills, then go be a Fighter, Soldier, Ninja or Paladin. Or with a Moogle, same idea. Oh, wait: that's four ways... Oh well. The.DreadnoughT 00:23, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Actually, that's five ways. I refuse to pay with my soul like I said I would because of that false advertising. And about the stuff with FFTA, putting a fighter and mage together isn't the best arrangement. If you started off as a fighter, you would have high attack, but low MP, and vis versa for starting with mage. Also, you can only choose one magic type to put on your fighter in the end because of the two ability slot maximum, and that's without items. I am still working on acquiring FF6, so I'll save that advice for when I can understand it better. But it's the thought that counts, so thanks. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 01:30, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Ninja of Wind? (Damn, that sounds like...well, something to do with farting, but that joke is too immature for this. Though the immaturity test is to say "poo" and see how many people laugh, but still...) You do know that false advertising is (where I live) something you can sue people for? And that because you didn't sell me your soul, now I can't trade it for the secret of immortality (which I would have shared with everyone here?) The.DreadnoughT 00:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

About the latest vote for fighters, all of those are compelling arguments, but I think Sephiroth just kind of uses whatever's easier at the time. Safer Sephiroth was pretty much all magic attacks, except for Havoc Wing. I always just sort of figured it was like how you wouldn't waste MP on a level 1 monster if you were like, level 87, unless you had the no MP ability & were looking to entertain yourself with the pretty colors.Neo Bahamut 00:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I specified the human form of Sephiroth (i.e., Sephiroth when he burns down Nibelhiem, or when he kills everyone in the Shin-Ra building in Midgar.) ("(human but questioning of it) Sephiroth") - The.DreadnoughT 00:52, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I caught that later. But he still uses a healthy amount of magic. Essentially, Sephiroth just screws up all sense of classes by being God. Just like your average anime villain.Neo Bahamut 01:00, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
You do realize that the human form of Sephiroth uses magic only through Materia (just like everyone else in VII,) right? Because if you do, yet you do not argue that Locke isn't a fighter, even though he can use summons, cast Meteor, Ultima, "Pearl" and every other spell in FFVI, use Rods (through the Merit Award,) AND use Doublecast (the Gem Box's "X-Magic",) under the right conditions (just as everyone from VII can use Materia, everyone in VI except Umaro and Gogo who's actually a character can have the Merit Award and Gem Box and equip Espers that grant magic) then you have conflicting points- you either can't make up your mind, or have no argument You don't have to argue that he isn't a fighter, Sephiroth's materia (other than the Black Materia, but that's a key item and an entirely different story) is much like Locke having Espers, which doesn't make Locke a Mage, since he's quite obviously a Thief. And Sephiroth is cooler than God. He has better theme music. (Wait, do I hear a thunderstorm brewing?) [stage direction: The.DreadnoughT is hit by lightning]
Okay, firstly, I don't know who Locke is, although if he's a thief with some magic ability, he's still a thief. Secondly, the system for magic doesn't matter, especially because you forget that everyone also has magic stats that affect their performance--Sephiroth's is ungodly high. Where are my points conflicting? I call Sephiroth "God" because my attempts to figure out his class have largely failed. His physical and magical stats are both obscenely high, and he uses a weapon pretty much unheard of in FF (the Masamune is in several games, but to the best of my knowledge, Sephiroth is the only FF character to use a nodachi).Neo Bahamut 02:07, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Cyan used one. And Sephiroth again...? Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 13:22, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
I think Sephiroth is a type of Fighter. Because there is no canon job system, most characters are identified based on weapon in accordance with fanon. Sephiroth wields a "katana" (not really but...) and is usually called Samurai. If you don't like to think of it that way, he is the same job as Cloud; SOLDIER (for the sake of arguement).--Werefang 19:21, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Did you ever check Sephiroth's stats in Cloud's Past, Neo Bahamut? (I'm assuming that you actually have played through VII that far.) If not, just so you know, you can. (Don't bother trying to take his Materia or equipment, you can't- I tried.) Back to what I was saying, ALL of his stats are horrendously high. And I definitely agree that since VII doesn't really have a job system, you go by the character's weapon, and also by their stats- how one knows that Tifa is a Monk, Cloud is some type of Warrior, Aeris is a Mage (you can tell even without the Staffs and Rods,) etc. The.DreadnoughT 00:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
I glimpsed them once. I can't really get to the flashback easily...that is to say, I couldn't when my disc still worked. And yeah, I tried to take his equipment & shit, too. And that was the point I was trying to make: How can you call someone a fighter or a mage if ALL of their stats are ridiculously powerful? I'm even reluctant to use the label "samurai," because as far as I can tell, there's no good guidelines to that except for "uses a katana." Cloud, honestly, has pretty good magic and physical stats. I didn't correct him because I think he is supposed to lean a little more to the physical side.Neo Bahamut 00:48, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Then go back a little bit. Okay, the stats don't help distinguish Sephiroth. So what? Since <extreme expletive deleted> when have MAGES used KATANAS, or ANY OTHER TYPE OF SWORD, REGARDLESS OF SIZE, ORIGIN, OR CURVEDNESS? (while being entirely a mage, so those good people who HAVE played VI won't be able to use their Terra example against me after I used said example as part of the reason for voting for Fighters.) And I do realize that CURVEDNESS ain't a word, and neither is "ain't," but do not even think of nitpicking about that, Grammar Nazi. You have a Userpage, I know where it is, and I know how to find the Edit button! The.DreadnoughT 01:30, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
I hope the threat to edit my userpage was a joke, first of all. Second of all, when has a mage used a sword? Depends on how you make your characters' stats in a lot of games, and you can give a mage "Equip Sword" in FFT. Lastly, none of that matters, as I NEVER CALLED SEPHIROTH A MAGE. Why do you think I keep telling people to read?Neo Bahamut 02:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it was. For the sake of argument, we will now ignore all Tactics variations, and FFVI (due to the Merit Award, and Esper-equipping; in a sense everyone in VI was a Red Mage with the wrong weapons.) I didn't say that you said or implied Sephiroth was a mage; I'm trying to settle this because if you look, this area of the comments is almost half the size of the Peanut Gallery. Sephiroth uses a sword. Mages do not use Swords without S-Abilities, or whatever Tactics called them, or the Merit Award, except Red Mages, which don't count by sitting on the goddamn fence. Sephiroth's magic comes from Materia. Materia use does not make someone a Mage, or even make someone not a fighter, if they are a fighter. (Like Cloud. Or like how Cid Highwind's always a Dragoon, even if you give him, say, Steal, Enemy Skill, Comet, Ultima, and the Mega Summon materia, and a bunch of other less important crap.) Sephiroth's sword also happens to have automatic-critical-hit, which only applies to his physical attacks. His physical attack is not elemental. Did I mention that when he's in the party, he only uses magic when you fight multiple enemies at once ('cause MTed magic kills everything much faster, when its all weak shit and you haven't got Slash-All/Flash.) Also, no character remotely similar to being a mage- even including Red Mages as "fighters" for a moment, because Rapiers are "thrusting swords" according to FFTA, where Red Mages use rapiers- (we're still ignoring VI) has ever fatally impaled a major character with a sword, and had that character remain dead for the rest of the game, and two movies based on that game, where applicable. Ever. Period. So now that I've said all that, Sephiroth is a fighter, not that specific job, but in general a physical fighter. Now can we stop arguing over my reasons for bringing Sephiroth into my vote? That was over a week ago! The.DreadnoughT 21:06, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Okay, re-assembling a bunch of arguments I already saw isn't going to stop the argument. If you don't count materia, that makes Aerith a fighter. Does that make sense? No, it doesn't. Materia is the magic system & skill system, the fact that the characters don't ordinarily use magic doesn't change the fact that they do, in the circumstances of the game. And yeah, I said, "Sephiroth uses whatever is easier at the time." Think of it this way: If you had a mage in your party that was strong enough to kill your enemy with a physical attack, would you really waste the MP to cast fire, or whatever? And Cid is significantly easier to label. He jumps & uses a spear. That's...pretty much all you need to be a dragoon.... The reason I point out that I didn't say Sephiroth is a mage is because my wording is very important. I said that the fighter/mage labels don't really apply to him. If you can use both magic and physical attacks to that degree of effectiveness, you aren't either, you're some kind of hybrid class. With regards to how he fights, he mostly uses physical strikes, sure. He also flies, uses some weird slashing wave to cut through buildings, and the like. His stances are reminiscent of samurai, but beyond that, inferences from his fighting style aren't terribly effective. So, yeah, magical warrior, demigod, maroon mage, whatever you want to call him, I just think that any "class" he has is somewhere in the middle, and like I said previously, he's kind of hard to label.Neo Bahamut 23:59, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Actually, you're wrong: you don't need to jump and use a spear to be a Dragoon. You need to Jump. Some Dragoons can also use swords (Edgar, FFTA "Dragoon" Job Class...) And fine, I'll stop arguing. Since obviously you won't. Actually, whoever said you always have to have the last word, was right. No offense, but I'm starting to agree with them. If you respond to this, though, I will have to respond to your response, because I'm stubborn and refuse to let you have the last word. You had the first word. First in, first out. Just like the things that get shoved onto a computer's stack memory. The.DreadnoughT 21:55, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
The argument was pretty much over a while back. It was decided that SOLDIER was probably the best description possible. So...yeah....Neo Bahamut 23:31, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Don't know who Cyan is, but I'll just assume I've been proven wrong. What's meant by "And Sephiroth again...?" Seriously, if you're going to complain about something, at least do it so that I know what you're complaining about, specifically. As to the job, it's not how I like to think of it, I really don't think there's any good class to just shove him into. I do, however, think that samurai is probably the closest (or SOLDIER, now that you mention it...). But I definately do not think the whole fighter/mage thing applies to him, because that implies that he's stronger at 1 than the other.Neo Bahamut 20:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
I respect the fact that you love Sephiroth but simply, can you survive without mentioning him in all fights? Only that. That's why people got tired of a good character as him, because fanboys are always spamming him. Let him resting in peace in the lifestream, please. At least for a while. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 00:40, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
As per the usual pattern of someone who complains about "the fanboys spamming him," you display incredible ignorance and selective reading. I mentioned Sephiroth in response to someone ELSE who mentioned him. And before you say anything, I do not feel bad for getting snippy with you, as I made that pretty damn clear in the comment that started this all. >_> Now I feel like yelling at the person who mentioned Terra to balance this out. <_<Neo Bahamut 01:33, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I though "you" was a plural word too. I was not refering only to you. Who is selective reading? Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 12:59, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Technically, it is. "You" was the plural/formal you, while "Thou" was singular/informal you, but English today has dropped "Thou", making "You" both singular and plural. ScatheMote 13:43, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
You're seriously calling me a selective reader for not knowing whether you meant "you" as in "you, the person I am talking to," or "you," as in, "You people"? Failed. Twice. First you failed to specify your subject properly, then you failed by blaming me for your own failure. Now, I'm going to try to put everything up here: I argued that VI was overrated because the way it is treated by its fans is arguably more infuriating than any VII fan. Not because of any attention it got by Square itself. I was not "continuing his work." The fight topic had changed before you made that edit (as far as I know, as I was never alerted to the change...damn glitch), so the time you made the edit is no excuse. Ironically, I was trying to tell you that, if you wanted to assert that hypocrisy was a serious accusation, you needed to back it up, not just say that it was. My original intention regarding the comparison post between Sephiroth & Kefka was a little unclear, but it was just that: a comparison. I was trying to show that not EVERYTHING about VI is automatically better than VII, or X, or everything ever done. And I read the comments: VII & X was mentioned a lot. They were by no means an attack on fanboysim in general. Lastly, back to the selective reading thing, I also mentioned Emperor Palpatine of Star Wars, who is not only not related to this fight, but isn't related to FF at all. And about the opinion thing, call it shuffling if you want, but no one was professing to be an expert on games they haven't played. You more or less stated that their ignorance should be punished, rather than accept the fact that there may be some holes in their ideas, but they were more or less valid. Damn, this was a long-ass rant.Neo Bahamut 22:42, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
(This is The.DreadnoughT just trying to say something, because my own comments are being mentioned indirectly here) - I only said something about Sephiroth last time because some other jackass had to call him "suckaroth." Go check that. MY comment is why Neo Bahamut (as he has already said) mentioned Sephiroth that time, and it was me mentioning Sephiroth this time that induced his mentioning of the living definition of awesomeness this time. And because you'll probably ask now if I can survive without mentioning Sephiroth, no, actually, I can't, because I injected MYSELF with Jenova Cells, to reach a higher level in my own religion, whose followers worship Sephiroth. (Just kidding on that part. Sephiroth. (shit, I nearly died after going that long- four days- without mentioning Sephiroth.))
Bleh, as always you ("you, the person I am talking to") have to be the last word. Sorry, I didn't know you ("you, the person I am talking to") was so egocentrist that if you read a "you" ("you people"), you ("you, the person I am talking to") cannot conceive it can be talking in general terms, not to you ("you, the person I am talking to"). Fanboys sux. All of them. And yes, you are always playing to be an expert on everything even if you have no idea. Do you remember this? "Are you aware of the fact that the Bible SPECIFICALLY refers to Leviathan as a serpent & a dragon?". You know what happen after that, so I'm not going to put you in more evidence (I don't know if that expression exists in english). Told that, this time, definitively: "And well, let's just ignore this and the "mysterious editor" if he appears again. We all followed his trolling intentions. I'll not response anymore to this" as I said before, at the bottom of the last week. If you want to continue use this. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 23:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey, fuck you, you didn't follow my suggestion, why the Hell should I follow yours? Besides, as you said, I always have to have the last word. So what on Earth makes you think I'd just sit by & let you make me out to be some kind of idiot? You have one example of a mistake I made, & I bet if I used a verse finder, I could probably find several areas referring to him as a dragon, anyway. Come back with several good examples, & then we'll talk. If you don't want to respond to this, that's up to you. If you want to go to my talk page, that's up to you. Be the bigger man if you so wish, as I have no interest in it. I don't care if I'm feeding some anonymous troll, you called me out, so I did the same in turn. That's just the way it is. Unlike you, I will not pretend to be some kind of voice of reason & authority when I'm obviously not.Neo Bahamut 00:03, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Now I'm NeoBawmut: "you see, i will tell you the things i think i know but i don't and tell you i'm right and insult you. and when you do the same I will tell you that you're stupid". That's a perfect definition of hypocresy, or however it's written. Why don't you die? Zak Undersn 00:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I think I about pissed myself laughing at your comment. It took me a few times through to figure out what you were saying, because of your awful grammar, but once I did, I realized that you really don't have a clue what you're talking about. I'm insulting Rai because he directly attacked me. An eye for an eye. And I already said that everyone is a hypocrite. What are you trying to do, prove me right? Either way, next time you try to find an example of hypocrisy, actually pick one that's right. Then, "Why don't you die"? LOL! Because arguing on the internet obviously deserves death. You're a funny ignoramous. Yes you are. Yes you are. Yes you are! (Continues mocking you in pet talk.)Neo Bahamut 00:40, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Edit: I just got that "NeoBawmut" thing. When Rai said it, I thought he was just an idiot. But I see, it's an insult. You guys are so funny. As long as we all have nicknames now, I think I'll call you 2 "Rai Ballcum" "Fondling Zak's Underwear." Haha, not really. Stupid 2nd-grade-insult-nicknames aren't my style. I just wanted to give you both something to compare that little quip to, as far as cleverness goes.
Edit 2: And now I just learned that you're not a native speaker of English. I'm torn between feeling like a dick for insulting you about your grammar & not caring because you're sort of a dick anyway. Guess it's true what they say. "Whenever you meet someone just like you, you either automatically like them, or you automatically hate them."
(To a comment by ScatheMote way up there, before Neo Bahamut's "long-ass rant" - and that's a direct quote): I'm sorry if I REALLY insult anyone with this, but I just have to say this- "Mr. Thou!" (Gau, Final Fantasy VI, referring to Cyan.) The.DreadnoughT 00:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I know, I call my rants "long ass" or "TL;DR" all the time.Neo Bahamut 00:48, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
I mentioned that because it seemed the most distinctive part of that long-ass rant (it was a good description, by the way... I need one like that. Maybe, "I'm shutting up now 'cause my fingers hurt.") The reasoning behind this was that if anyone else got the joke (because you never played VI, you won't get it, can't get it, and never will get it, unless you click this helpful link) and wanted to know why I said it, or to see what comment I was referring to (so that they could get the joke,) they would know what to look for. I will now repeat myself like a broken record: "Mr. Thou!" The.DreadnoughT 01:30, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Why is it that we always have such a good turnout for the actual fights, but hardly anyone is voting on the suggestions anymore? Come on people, how do you think these fights show up here anyway? Go out there and excerscise your right to vote for which fight you want to come up next week! Maybe that will catch their attention. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 01:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree. We need more people in there, giving their opinions on the fights. Less overall submissions, though. More often than not, they're just retarded, & they REALLY slow the page down.Neo Bahamut 00:03, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I also agree. However, because maybe some people are too (damn, there's no stronger word for this that isn't discriminatory...) stupid to figure out where that is (and too lazy to look,) I am sticking a second link to it on this page- the first one is way up at the top of the page. And maybe it would help if someone went through and removed all the fights that had already been used/accepted/whatever, and possibly get rid of anything more than a week (or some other time period) old with no votes or comments at all. That would probably help shorten the list and speed the page up. Or Neo Bahamut could get a better computer; the 0.3 seconds or so it takes mine to load the page is very reasonable. The.DreadnoughT 21:06, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey, fuck you, there's nothing wrong with my computer. It mainly freezes up when I'm trying to type.Neo Bahamut 23:59, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

That was hard. I almost voted for fighters because I LOOOOOOVE ninjas. But all the COOL ninjas can use magic (EDGE!), so I voted for mages anyway. DreamDevout 15:55, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Edge rocks! <3 Karu
Just so you know: Ninjas are cool, regardless of magic! Ninjas do not need magic to be awesome (because they would still be Ninjas, and therefore still be awesome, that's my point.) Magic just helps. (Real world ninjas didn't have magic, but they're still cool.) Just as nobody in VII needs Materia, but it still helps. Or like how in VI, characters don't need to be armed, but it still makes everything much easier. Or like how you don't need to spell everything write or avoid ungood grammar or using Newspeak (now I'm trying to annoy Neo Bahamut, 'cause he says he can contribute in English on a professional standard or something,) but it helps with legibility. Just wanted to throw that out there ( The.DreadnoughT 00:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC))
Is it ninja or ninjas? Both? Does it still say that? I thought I changed it a while back to "above average." Guess I thought, "Fuck, I know the difference between who and whom when most people don't know the difference between your and you're, I DARE anyone to question me!" In any case, you're wasting my time. I don't bother correcting obvious attempts to annoy me. Also, I understand that you're joking. Should...probably make that clear....Neo Bahamut 00:48, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm it hard to vote this time. A balanced team needs both mages and fighters. Not having one or the other can get you screwed endgame. SUre I could pick mages for their awesomeness, but if a fighter wasn't there, taking the hits for them, they couldn't hope to unleash their awesomeness decently. Blazelord

I have a feeling this is gonna be a draw. Pure-Moneo 20:45, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

"Mages have low magic defense & warriors have high attack." The same logic could be applied in reverse, with magical attack & defense....Neo Bahamut 07:32, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Huh? What? Did I miss the memo about all FF mages having their magical defense lowered because it violated the Geneva Convention or something? Mages have low physical defense! The.DreadnoughT 00:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

out of topic here, but who here thinks it would be cool to have a traditional turn-based final fantasy with characters from II-XIII? Firionklauser

Umm...that's what I was saying. Mages have high magical stats. Wait, I see what's wrong, I think I might have added a superfluous "magic" before defense.Neo Bahamut 00:48, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Depends if the graphics would be good or not.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 11:51, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Uh, when are you people (and the retards ...people... at Square Enix) going to learn the following:
GRAPHICS ALONE DON'T MAKE A GAME. THAT IS WHY HALO, FOR EXAMPLE, IS A PIECE OF DOG SHIT.
Graphics are nice when graphics are good- but Halo still blows real hard. The original Command & Conquer still kicks ass, and the old, pre-3D (and pre-Good-3D - ie, VII) Final Fantasies are still good. The.DreadnoughT 00:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC
Agreed. I think people tend to focus too much on graphics, & just sort of say that a storyline is good without going into it. That's why I refuse to watch videogame reveiws.Neo Bahamut 00:48, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I fail to see how Halo is only good based on its graphics.Hellflash1416

You also fail to see the following:
HALO IS A PIECE OF DOG SHIT!
And just in case you haven't figured this out yet, Halo isn't good at all. It's graphics are pretty, that's all. If you get two games in every way except graphics more or less equal- I'll use Metal Gear Solid, MGS2: Sons of Liberty, and MGS3: Snake Eater as an example- the one with better graphics is better. MGS2 was better than MGS. Twin Snakes was also better than Metal Gear Solid, despite being a remake of Metal Gear Solid. Halo is a piece of dog shit not worth playing at all. Ditto for Halo 2, 3, and Wars (which is a poorly disguised Halo-themed ripoff of Command & Conquer 3 Tiberium Wars, but I'll let EA sue Microsoft over that.) Now are we clear, blind (or very capable of missing the excessively obvious) one? The.DreadnoughT 21:06, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
OK, i have to step in. Halo is a great game, no Killzone 2, but a great game. Amazing graphics, gameplay, everything? And if it is rubbish, then why did it make 170 million dollars in the US alone? — Ultima The High Seraph 06:56, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I've got to stand with Ultima here. Though Halo is not my favorite game, the story and characters are incredible. Gameplay is incrediple as well. And might I also point out thaat you precious Final Fantasy is an over perpetuated cliche. In all of the games but the last two main story games(X, XII), the whole premise is based on you saving the world. Neither SIN nor Vayne were bent on destruction but instead the more plausable drive for world conquest. Plus the Halo graphics are not something that it actually has. If you were to play the game, you would realize that the graphics are not really that good. Plus, just because Wars is an RTS doesn't make it a C&C rip-off. That is like saying that every RPG is a Final Fantasy rip-off.--Werefang 13:49, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

wow you have a bad attitude dont need to get your panties in a bundle just because of what i said sheesh. and i enjoy halo as much as finalfantasy.Hellflash1416

You're talking to the airship that got blown up, right?--Werefang 14:52, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

yep Hellflash1416

just checking.--Werefang 18:26, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

"Kefka laugh." Unfortunately for that (actually funny; I did laugh) comment, my username is not derived from the airship that got blown up. FFII was released before I was born, and I haven't played it. Someday I might. The.Dreadnought (the The and "." are actually extraneous; whatever controls the username wouldn't let me just use "Dreadnought") is derived from the same thing the airship's name was- the British battleship built in 190(6? What? The book on ships I have said 1904...) carrying twelve twelve-inch guns, two to a turret, capable of 12 knots at top speed, and carrying twelve inches of armor, which recieved the name "Dreadnought" - the second? (I think, anyway; the first was a "100-gun" British Man-o'-War from the 1700s) British ship of that name. (Coincidentally, the third ship named Dreadnought is a British SSN; Also off topic, the British naming a ship "Dreadnought" is like the Americans naming a ship "Enterprise.") I've been using "Dreadnought" for this purpose for around six years. I'm also going to go put the explanation of my username on my userpage, so that I never have to say all of that again. And, just so you know: the real Dreadnought never sank. It was decommissioned. The Invincible-class "battlecruisers" had a tendency to blow up spontaneously, and a couple of Dreadnought-classes were lost in WWII, but the original was never sunk. Nor did it blow up. That a destroyed airship shares a name with me is pure coincidence (if still funny.) Go ahead, make fun of my rant about my username, I probably deserve it... But I insist that you never again connect me directly to that destroyed airship. Ever. This has been The.DreadnoughT defending his username, at 21:55, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

And, to Hellflash n, I must say: I'm only trying to point out something that should be fairly obvious (considering it was, in slightly different wording, already in ALL-CAPITALS boldface.) And followed it by stating my opinions. Maybe I'm just really bitter about Halo because I never got the chance to finish it before my brother sold his X-Box after he moved out. Also because I happen to be a Metal Gear fan, and Halo wants to (but fails at) challenge it. I give up on the Halo Wars thing, it being just like C&C may just be my opinion. (Though, actually, all RTS games trace their gameplay to one of three games released in the early 1990's: Command & Conquer (retroactively renamed Tiberian Dawn,) and either WarCraft (the RTS, not Blizzard's annoying MMORPG I hear far too much about from people who badly need a life) or StarCraft. So, it seems, that is not the same thing as saying all RPGs are based on or rip off FF; only about 1/2 of those are, not counting FF or Chrono- games. I will now shut up because my fingers hurt. The.DreadnoughT 21:55, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Week 115: Jecht v. Terra[edit source]

Dissidia Jecht.png
DNC Versus.png
Dissidia Terra.png
WINNER
Terra
53 to 39 1/2
This was presented in the fashion of summon versus summon, though personally I think it might be an ruse to get TacticAngel to vote for a character from Final Fantasy VI!

Votes for Jecht[edit source]

  1. First vote, and it's on a fight I rejected...>_> - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:19, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  2. X>VI, first off. Jecht would use his trademark "crybaby" lines on Terra for all her bitching about how she "can't feel love" for second. And third, Jecht is an asshole, I like assholes; Terra is a whiney bitch, I hate whiney bitches. Derum
  3. N/A 06:41, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  4. I prefer VI to X, but I've always disliked Terra. I really don't see what alot of people are so giddy about her, she's no way near that compelling, and she's terribly boring, it's must be her lame Half-breed/super empowered angle she got. Anyway Jecht was(or rather seemed) like an extreme ass but he's really cool. Though I'd rather hang out with an ass than someone so bland they become an optional character. AnonyMan 06:45, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  5. This is HARD! I like Terra, yea, but Jecht is more to my liking. In terms of power, Jecht wins, hands down. In terms of personality, both of them shows "sadness" and "hardship", but Jecht's fate is more harsh without him going EMO (respect) and Jecht's story is sadder, I don't feel anything for Terra. I still like both of them, tho. Leon5550 10:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  6. I hated FF6 so ill go with the one i've hardly played. Neosamuel
  7. Sora G. Strife 12:58, 14 April 2009 (UTC):Though Terra is a superior character, Dissidia Jecht is broken beyond repair. I dub him Kain Highwind.
  8. User:Blazelord Jecht looks awesome with that sword of his, and I like terra more than him, but he's more my fighting style.
  9. Heretic Ramza This is a very odd battle but I choose Jecht since I haven't played FFVI yet. Plus, it takes a whole party to beat this guy and the heroes usually aren't as strong alone.
  10. I don't know why these two are in the same match? I don't see anything they have in common. ANYWAY, I vote for Jecht 'cause he kind of, sort of redeems himself. :P Judge Balthier 14:29, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  11. A handicap parking sign does not signify that this spot is for handicapped people. It is actually, in fact, a warning: that the spot belongs to Jecht and that you will be handicapped if you park there. --Tacochickenwings 15:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  12. ArableLadle : Oh yea one of my favourite characters
  13. JEKUTO FINGAA!!!!!! - Henryacores^ 19:10, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  14. ChaosEsperVII I vote for the Blitz King.
  15. Just look at his sword it, would sumush, squish, slash the shit out of terra.--Blackwing11 22:02, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  16. While Terra's alternative coustume on Dissidia looks cute, Jecht is the REAL main charcter of FFXII, making him the representative off 2 FF games in Dissidia. Thats right, he's the main character of a game he wasen't seen or mentioned in, that proves how badass he is.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 22:08, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  17. I HAVE NOT PLAYED VI YET EVEN THOUGH I REALLY, REALLY WANT TO! Once I get some more money I will be able to FINALLY buy FFVI. And play it. Therefore, I'm not sure if I like Terra more than Jecht because I have not played her game yet! Dammit! But I'm voting for Jecht because I love him to pieces and he is the coolest dad in the universe. I also have a bias favoring FFX, in case you have not noticed (look at my past Dragon's Neck voting records!) Violetmage
  18. Nokareon: Voting for the true final boss of X. Now it would be a different matter if we could say Terra was the true main character of VI...
  19. Because Terra's fanclub consists of......Gau. Sorry but I wanna go for the guy that wrought Chaos on a world for ten years and three months!Xlatinsorax 04:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  20. King of the shoopuffs --Zephyrus11 08:01, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  21. FinalAnnihilator I can't vote for a Final Fantasy I have never played, let alone FF VI, BUT DON'T YOU PEOPLE SEE IT?? JECHT IS THE PERSONALISATION OF THE AWESOMENESS!!!
  22. Jecht hands downBlackheart1991 11:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  23. ...I understand the link in this fight but...it's not very good. >_< Anywhom, Jecht is a hugely better character. Terra's annoying. And if they transform into their summoned forms, Jecht would kick her ass. Terra is a half-esper, while Jecht is the Final Aeon. C'mon. Fayth of the Turtles 11:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  24. SeKaLoYa 13:34, 15 April 2009 (UTC)I have only played VII and above, except for XI, so I would say Jecht...the Classic FFs were probably super good quality games for their time, but I don't like Amano...At first at seeing their pics for the Colosseum I thought it was a fight based on the premise that this was like a Dissidia fight...Jecht is stronger but Terra is more magic-oriented.
  25. Sevler425Definatly Jecht, I like how he was always bashing on Tidus, He affected alot of that game and he wasn't even there. Now thats cool.
  26. User:MechaUltimaZero FFX was the very first FF game I played (not counting an FFVIII demo), and besides, Jecht was a pretty damned tough boss, not to mention I failed the Jecht Shot challenge the first couple of tries. Considering that the Jecht Shot is one of the best Blitzball techniques, that Jecht and Auron were Braska's guardians, became a summon--not that we get to use him-- AND he's the main character's dad, he simply many more accomplishments than Terra does. What has she really accomplished? She's a main character, and appears in Dissidia. Even considering that she's half-summon, Jecht became a FULL summon. In my book, that makes him a hands-down winner for this fight. Plus, I haven't played VI...
  27. Hey I liked X and Jecht is pretty awesome -Saraija Merinas
  28. Selhiroth: My votes always go to FFX...
  29. User:Sera89: Yeah, Jecht just looks awesome, and people always talk about Terra being a half-esper and all, which is all good and well, but Jecht is a Final Aeon who's quickly becoming Sin, the near unstoppable force of destruction for Spira. And although I really liked Terra in her respective game, and although I believe X wasn't the "best" the series offers, Jecht was really cool. Can't say the same for his son though....
  30. Skoot85He's kinda cool :D
  31. BrodyGunner - Have to give it to Jecht, but Terra's awesome too.
  32. Because he looks cool. An admin can remove this vote if that's not a good enough reason.--Bek (talk) 02:55, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
  33. Thunderboi Boys are better than girls XP
  34. Lockhart: Final Aeon > Half Esper
  35. Josejoejoey 12:52, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
  36. I've never played FFVI. Depending on what system it's for, I'll try to borrow it from one of my friends. Keeping my inexperience in mind, I turn to Terra's comments to judge her. All assertions that Terra is better than Jecht. Unconvincing, and a bit disappointing after some of our recent fights. Jecht's votes are the same way, so I can't really blame fans of VI. However, I know enough of Jecht to like him, so all factors considered, my vote must go go thim. I'm also noting a lot of comments suggesting that VI is lightyears ahead of X & everything else, which I shall address in the peanut gallery.Neo Bahamut 23:36, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
  37. Since the Dissidia artwork is used, I'll base my vote off of that game, in which Jecht DROPS FLAMING BOULDERS ON PEOPLE and hits them with a MASSIVE PADDLE SWORD AND HIS FISTS OF FURY. Terra, not so much for the flaming boulders. Tiny rocks, but not boulders.--Muchomas35 21:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. 89.240.176.54 10:34, 14 April 2009 (UTC) Jecht got drunk and stabbed a shoopuff, their pilgrimage sound awesome :P
  2. 63.215.27.209 16:28, 14 April 2009 (UTC) I'll vote for Jecht cuz I've never played FFVI before, and I have played FFX, even though Terra looks awesome. Plus, Jecht's Dissidia artwork is really cool.
  3. I agree with B.Wing he would do that with his sword--82.198.235.242 22:08, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  4. 69.125.31.3 04:06, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  5. 195.248.127.175 17:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Votes for Terra[edit source]

  1. X sucked. VI was quite possibly the best SNES game, not to mention it never shot off a shoddy sequel that could of been contrived if you stuck X and a season of "charlies angels" in a blender. Exdeath64 05:23, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  2. WTF?! Terra is amazing in so many ways~ Jecht really isn't that awesome, either. He really isn't much at all compared to Terra<3 Yzz 07:38, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  3. This is more of a vote against Jecht than a vote for Terra. Ultima The High Seraph 09:21, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  4. Terra was controlled by the empire, but not totally destructive, which kind of nicer than what Sin/Jecht can do. She was branded a witch but her good side made her control herself, but Jecht can't control, neither stop destroying- which is why Terra's FTW Devil Breaker 10:45, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  5. WUT? This is like comparing a stone and a god. I like Jecht, but Terra is too much Terra! Jecht is a... 5/10 character, and Terra is a 15/10 one. Cute Terra <3 Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 12:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  6. 2 words: TERRA'S HAWT!!!JudgeMasterKefka 20:59, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  7. BlueHighwind : Just the way God made me. I'm voted for the real Terra, by the way, the one in my game. Not that strange blond girl up there.
  8. I'll vote for the one who is not asshole. Kupuntu 13:43, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  9. I love FFVI. I love Terra. I love using Terra in battle. This battle is a no brainer for me. However, if this was a solely Dissidia battle, I'd change sides. Terra is a Red Mage, not a helpless mage.ClixPsi
  10. a shy girl >>>>> Meg Ryan's daddy. Lolcakes 14:41, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  11. I like.--BigCubby 15:09, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  12. Faethinverba volant : Those who vote for Jecht against Terra earn my eternal hatred.
  13. Easy. Terra is a great character in a great game. No, I'm not talking about Dissidia. Karu
  14. Soren 4ever 16:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC): Terra, HANDS DOWN!!! She is a billion times better than Jecht. Jecht is just an overrateD ASS!!!
  15. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 16:49, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  16. BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|17:17, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  17. Drake Clawfang 18:32, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  18. Cute blondie > Crazy old man. Lol. Really, I hate Jecht more than Tidus... -Alarielle- 19:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  19. Tragedian Terra was great in battle and I love her design. Terra was just great.
  20. I love Terra more then anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 20:46, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  21. TERRA TERRA TERRA!!!!!i need to say more? CookiePinguy 20:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  22. User:RainbowCecil88 17:33, 14 April 2009 Terra's story is tragically beautiful while Jecht's is merely tragic. Terra should win this one!
  23. ScatheMote 22:17, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
  24. I kinda liked both, but Terra has more going on. Cluna 06 00:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  25. Once Terra knows the meaning of love, she would finally married to someone and have children who never whine. Jecht may be an awesome character, but his son was totally a whiner and a loser. (I'm sorry, Jecht *sobs*) MTC
  26. She was one of the great female protagonists. Kuzlalala 03:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  27. Final Fantasy VI is awesome. Terra is one of the best protagonists ever. This is a hands down win, it shouldn't even be close. Ozark0816 15:47, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  28. Normally, I'd go with the antagonist (because in FF games, they're usually evil.) But when the antagonist is a total jackass, and is against someone from VI, too bad. Besides which, if this was a real fight, Terra would kick Jecht's ass around the corner a few times. Without moving. (That's what magic's for.) The.DreadnoughT 20:18, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  29. You were expecting something else? 8bit 23:30, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  30. Terra is half esper and Jecht is Tidus' father. Is it really that complicated? - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 00:16, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
  31. Meh i like Terra more than Jecht -Yuffie2211
  32. Rydiaofmist
  33. My vote goes to Terra Mr_Darkside
  34. Terra wasn't the Father of whiny, annoying character. Calarandir
  35. I'll vote for Terra even though I just started playing FFVI and never played FFX... Personally, I prefer how Terra looks, than Je-... Jeck-... Jesch-... oh you know who. Pure-Moneo 17:29, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
  36. Terra`s story is far the coolest one yet, not to mention that she is the unique female character to be the main lead of a main series game
  37. You're cool Jecht. You're not a good char, but cool. But... nevermind Zak Undersn 20:37, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
  38. Magic-human hybrid Vs Creepy father. Course I'm going with Terra. Archmael 22:48, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
  39. I don't like Terra at all. Jecht isn't a great thrill to me either. So i have to vote by game. VI is definately my fav with I, V, VIII, IX, and X all closely following. so Terra because of FINAL FANTASY VI!!!!!
  40. Jecht is a good father... and he talks like a gangstah in dissida!! but ffvi was the best for me! and i also like Terra! Onionknight23
  41. Terra is too awesome for me not to vote for her --StragusLore 04:03, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
  42. Terra Branford got my vote (a) She has a unique story (b) her smashing 'Trance' ability User:GabbianiSoul
  43. SamSandy: Hmm, an abusive father versus one of the most endearing female characters in the whole series... Not such a hard decision.
  44. User:Kuponutter Terra gets my vote! No Doubt about it.
  45. user:neveryuna24 Terra is so the best character
  46. I'd have voted for Terra regardless, but she beats Jecht in character definitly, Jecht is an ass. He's really like the jocks in high school only grown up. Terra's a beautiful, kind girl with skill with magic and the blade. -- User:Terra_Branford 06:54, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
  47. Isn't it obvious? Better character, better game. Terra all the way!! 1stclasswarrior 15:23, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
  48. It's a close call, as I like both characters, but Terra is better both as a "half-summon" and a character. Opario 21:17, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
  49. There's only one character better than Terra. And that ain't her. RowdyCMoore
  50. Terra rocks - she totally made FFVI great. Locke was good, Celes and Shadow rocked, but it was Terra that kept me coming back.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. 69.232.159.190Dude, c'mon she's an ESPER!
  2. #87.80.197.171 09:26, 15 April 2009 (UTC) Terra was the first female hero in the Final Fantasy series. VI is an awesome game. And she has issues that are NOT to do with alcohol and having a son who has serious issues. So. Terra. Kicks. Jecht's. A**.
  3. She's a playable character 217.44.4.103 13:05, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  4. 75.181.21.7 23:19, 15 April 2009 (UTC)- Never played VI, but Terra is very attractive so my vote goes to her.
  5. 58.69.0.89 08:43, 18 April 2009 (UTC)My favorite
  6. While Terra is creepy, non-human, and well... purple.... I still like her over Jecht even though I've nearly beaten X and I've just started VI. Jecht just kinda pisses me off a lot. Sure Tidus could be a bit more manly at times, but I mean man, why focus so much on a drunkard abusing his kid? Terra is awesome with her Esper powers and all, plus I'm a little partial to chickies... especially against old dudes =)162.40.215.229 22:02, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

I don't like Terra's japanese voice in Dissidia. She's shy, not stupid :/ Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 13:00, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I think Yukari Fukui (VA for Terra) didn't made Terra shy, but like someone who is concern for everyone because she might not control herself. She is somewhat afraid of her powers IMHO please do not hate me coz of my Simple opinion.Devil Breaker 04:29, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

It's obvious the character from FFVI is gona win. Overrated game is overrated.

Overrated game??? Are you kidding? If FFVI is a beloved game is because the game deserve it. Karu
There are at least some aspects about the game that get blown out of proportion. Like Kefka his fanboys are easily just as annoying as any Suckaroth fanboy. Never seen such foolishness for a 1-dimensional character. AnonyMan
Are you kidding me? FFVI was beloved years before the games became as popular as they are nowadays. FFX is the Dan Brown novel of the Series. Faethinverba volant 16:45, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Fanboys ARE annoying, it doesn't matter if they are Kefka fanboys or Seymour fanboys. Karu
Faethin, FFX isn't that bad! Geeze. --BlueHighwind 19:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Haters can be just as annoying as fanboys.
Overrated is FFX, it has more fanboys than other game in the series (except VII) while it was a so-so game. It was good, but not FF-quality level. All one-digit FFs I have played are much better, but the people's hype is X (graphics?) Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 06:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Overrated? It was incredible. ^^Fayth of the Turtles 12:05, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
You'll cum if you play IV or VI then. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 14:01, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
I do agree that the older FFs have more to them, but FFX's story was pretty good. You are only saying that because it is a post FFVII game. I can guarantee you if FFX came out in place of FFV and vice versa, you
would be saying how much FFV sucks and FFX rocked. Its just a matter of when it came out.

69.125.31.3 13:55, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Rai <3 Karu
I like ToA more than many FFs and it come out after them o,o I'm talking about plot, characters, character development... A RPG is a tale, a interactive novel. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 14:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
I have played IV and VI. I did cum. I mean... no I didn't. (shifty eyes) But um yeah, still like X better. There's just something about it that makes me love it despite Tidus and Wakka being utter pains in the asses. Fayth of the Turtles 22:11, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Then I respect your opinion. Sorry, I included you in the huge group of fanboys who only have played X and/or don't like the classics because they don't have cute-awesome graphics, they are too many people. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 15:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I think it would be stretching the truth a bit if we're classifying these two as summons. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 16:33, 14 April 2009 (UTC) There!, there you go! They have almost nothing in common with each other. Judge Balthier 18:29, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Both are half summons, Terra naturally, and Jecht artificially. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 06:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I pity those who call VI overrated. Clearly they cannot appreciate a marvel when it's presented to them. For the time, for the series up until that point, for the technology available, for the subject matter, VI raised the bar beyond anything previously seen. I understand most fans broke their Final Fantasy cherries on VII and VIII, but look before them. Look at what preceded VI, look at the first five games. Consider their simplistic graphics, pale unexplored characters and villains, shallow storylines and worlds. Then look at VI again, and tell me it isn't a masterpiece. For what it was to games before it, for how it would affect games after, VI's legacy is one of brilliance. Drake Clawfang 18:38, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Considering that the masterpiece that is Chrono Trigger was released only a year later on the same system, VI is but another SNES game. And when you think about it, VI barely has character development. —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|21:24, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
More than most games before it had (bar IV). Drake Clawfang 21:29, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Mr. Drake is right. It ain't overrated. It didn't had much character development coz there's nothin to change from them, except the others...Devil Breaker 04:29, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
We voted for opposing characters, but I agree with Drake here. Consider the times of when the games came out. For a SNES game, VI was a masterpeice. The only problem I had X was the voice acting, but it was the first FF game with voice acting. To me, your all just overeacting and are too focused in what should be in a game. Personally, I don't care. I play games to have fun, so try to be a bit more relaxed. Blazelord

Whoever wrote Jecht's the main character from FFXII should be hit... with a stick. Leon5550 23:00, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Nah, let's be nice with the guy and call the ambulance to his new home on a crazy people hospital to be cured CookiePinguy 23:44, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Guys Lets be really nice to this person, and maybe he'll know his mistake, if he didn't maybe Mr Cookie here may bring him to the hospital up and personal ^^.Devil Breaker 04:29, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Lol to the person that already declared Terra the winner! 69.125.31.3 04:05, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Leon5550: You come anywhere near me with that stick and it'll be the last thing you do. CookiePinguy: No prisoncrazy people hospital can hold me. Devil Breaker: I have not learnt of any mistake, nor do I notice one in what I said, and Mr Cookie will be walking around with 2 black eyes if he comes between 50 feet of me, keepish.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 15:06, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok Mr Pocky, the last one i typed wasn't me, but my brother.... likes playing pranks at me, so sorry for the insult, and also he used my trademark Mr/Ms to make sure I look liked the one that typed it, sorry Mr Pocky...Devil Breaker 00:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Did you know that is the real big strong ugly and scary guys that usually have a strange and cute name like "Cookie" or "Pinguin"? ;D hehehe CookiePinguy 21:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I can't really say anything since I've never played FFVI. =|

It's okay Mr Breaker.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 09:18, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey, who was complaining about being thrown in an asylum? I'll have you know that insane people are cool! (Points at BlueHighwind...) User:MechaUltimaZero 10:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

92.26.196.179 09:43, 17 April 2009 (UTC)that's not insanity, that's inpsired logic and reason. those in asylums can't take over the world.

So FFVI isn't overrated, because it deserves it's popularity? LOL typical fanboy comment. FFVI isn't overrated, because it was pretty good at the time? LOL that's the same thing the FFVII fanboys say about their game. Sorry to tell you guys, but FFVI is extremelly overrated, losing only to FFVII. And your comments are proof of that.

Then all popular thing is overrated, right? Ok, you win mahboi. This world is overrated! Karu
You never sign up your comments. Why? Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 17:19, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
How...Huh? I don't understand your logic at all. Try explaining HOW they're overrated.

Fayth of the Turtles 01:04, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

"So FFVI isn't overrated, because it deserves it's popularity?"
Um, unless I misunderstand the term, "overrated" means it gets more popularity than it deserves. So um, yeah, that sentence is correct. Drake Clawfang 02:04, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Actually, if you read Wikitionary or any other dictionaries, then you will know that overrated means "not as good or important as some people believe". MTC

Meaning that FFVII is not really overrated. But for some reason, the FFVI fanboys love to say it is. How funny.

...They're pretty much the same meanings? "Getting more popularity than it deserves" is essentially the same as being "not as good or as important as people believe."Fayth of the Turtles 07:58, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Read again: "not as good or as important as SOME people believe".

Bleh, let him live in his lollipop world, don't waste your time. If anything is popular and he don't like it, he will say "it's overrated", even if you explain what is overrated infinite thousand times. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 11:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Jecht's vote number 33 made me facepalm. "Boys are better than girls XP" We have a neanderthal here. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 11:35, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes I wonder why we just sit around hurling insult after insult at each other about which game is better or which character is emo or gay and insult all the hard work that Square Enix put into the series. Then I remembered, it's fun to berate each other, isn't it? Blazelord 12:18, 18 April 2009

Well, both are my two favorite FF games, yet I must say that X is a bit overrated... but not as much as VII is... Sephy fan boys are annoying me a little. In my opinion, older FFs are better than new ones. I enjoyed V more than VII.

It's funny how the FFVI fanbase like to call FFVII "overrated", but get pissed when somebody says the same about FFVI.

Naturally, I just had to plant my opinionated ass in here. And, as always, this is a continuation of my actual vote. Everyone who says "Sephiroth/VII" fanboys are getting annoying, please shut the Hell up & re-read the comments. Do you see anyone here plugging VII to you? No, you do not. This is a pretty consistent pattern. Those who bitch about VII fanboys always do it when there are no FFVII fans around. I don't see why they can't just let people enjoy the games. And yeah, I will say that VI is overrated. It's constantly trumpeted as pretty much the best FF game ever, and waaaay better than VII, although Kefka is just as cliche as Sephiroth, and half as deep. "I just like to destroy shit!" Yeah. One thing that VII & post-VII games have are motivations more complete than that. Particularly, X may not be as complicated as VII, storyline wise, but it's original. What is VI? "Psychotic douche knocks over some statues and becomes God"? I'm not against VI without even playing it, but quite honestly, from what I hear from the fans, it's nothing special. So, instead of attacking X & VII, perhaps said fans should go the route I go with my personal favorite & defend VI? Some hippy bullshit, some chiding remarks, okay, I think I'm done here.Neo Bahamut 23:36, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Fans, and Fanboys alike, when you hear Final Fantasy, you all should be proud of the 20 years of happiness that it brought. So lets just vote the deserving one and not brand the FF Games overrated. Why? Its like criticizing the game that we all love. Its like in a basketball game, we love it, we watch it. In this case, FF Games, we play it, we love it, we don't overvalue it. Devil Breaker 04:47, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

"If anything is popular and he don't like it, he will say "it's overrated","

Exactly like you, when you said FFX is overrated. Stop being an hypocrite, Rai.

Because is good, but not so good as fanboys says. They'll never accept the several shortages/weak points their game has. If you find several shortages/weak points about FFVI (or other game you want to say it's overrated), tell me, and I'll listen you. If you are wright I'll admit it. And sign up your comments, I want to know who is calling me hypocrite. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 18:15, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that's a really serious thing to call someone. Specially coming from a person who doesn't sign their edits. FFX is more than overrated, Deal. With. It.Zak Undersn 18:25, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I don't really think a case can be made for that. You really never hear about X. And "hypocrite" is not a very serious accusation. Everyone is one. That's why, when I argue, I try to avoid calling people hypocrites. It can be thrown right back at you.Neo Bahamut 20:40, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Hypocrite is a very serious accusation, at least in the real world. And coming back to FF, I always hear when anyone talk to me, about X or whatever. I only never hear tards and fanboys who has only played one or two games, and thinks they know everything about all games. Yeah, I don't like in what is becoming FF, but if you had played x and y game and you like more x, I respect that. Because as you said, everyone is one. If you don't believe me, just read this peanut again. And please answer me: you're the non-signing-up editor? Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 14:14, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
No. Hypocrisy is not a serious accusation. And don't you dare post "UH-HUH!" again. No, you honestly do not respect people who have a preference to games. You more or less say that, unless someone has played all of at least the main games, they shouldn't be able to have an opinion. And you are DEFINATELY quick to accuse someone of being a fanboy. And yes, Rai. I, who keeps signing my edits, is the non-signing editor. Nothing retarded about that theory, or any of your other accusations, at all.Neo Bahamut 01:57, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
First: I'm not going to play the childish game "yes!" "no!" "yes!" "no!" about hypocrisy with you. Think whatever you want. Second: Don't play shuffling with me. It's logic that anyone who doesn't played x or y game, shouldn't be able to have a true opinion about them (x or y, not all games as you said). You can have an opinion about you have heared, but don't go playing as expert about the game itself. I myself haven't played all FF's, and that's why I don't opine about that games. I'll say it in other words: fanboys like you think their games are best than others which they haven't played and criticize them without know what are talking about. Third: Do you remember the Jenova vs Sin? You didn't sign up many edits. That's why I asked, not accused. Shuffling failed. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 12:53, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
(about Kefka just liking to "destroy shit," above...) Hey, people who just like to destroy shit are sometimes pretty awesome. Let me list a few: Kekfa (it is true, but he is also insane, and belongs in an asylum, which also breaks the point about people in crazy-hospitals not being able to take over the world, at least assuming they can leave) The Fury from MGS3 (whose self-introduction should be something like "I am The Fury! Everything Must Burn!") Similarly, Liquid Snake was a bit stupid, but still somewhat cool (and nearly imitated the Kefka laugh once, while I was fighting him at the end of the first MGS;) Emperor Palpatine (from Star Wars) wasn't that bad either, especially when he started blowing up the Rebel fleet; and Sephiroth really had no reason at all to want to a) massacre the inhabitants of, pillage, and burn down Nibelheim, or b) destroy the entire Planet, but he still did burn down Nibelheim, and nearly succeeded with Meteor; it got stopped, but still leveled Midgar (and I would say "Sephiroth defines awesome" but too many people would complain...) The.DreadnoughT just wanted to throw that out there at 01:32, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, people who just like to destroy shit CAN be pretty awesome. I'm a bit confused as to why you didn't list the Joker from The Dark Knight. I'm mostly countering those people who say that EVERYTHING VI does is above EVERYTHING else, especially VII. So, basically, I'm an anti-fanboy-fanboy. Or something like that. I don't know most of those examples, but there are 2 that do not belong: Emperor Palpatine clearly wanted to dominate the universe. He had a goal loftier than just destroying shit. And Sephiroth's reason to massacre Nibelheim was because he thought humans were traitors who led the Cetra to their death. After he found out the truth, his motivations are a little foggy, but he wanted to become God, which also makes him exempt from that. And, also remember that my impression of Kefka might not be entirely accurate. As I stated, I'm going by what I hear from his fans. And I know from experience that FFVII fans, for instance, often don't know what the Hell they're talking about.Neo Bahamut 01:51, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
1) Conquering the universe is not why he built the Death Star. He already had enough Star Destroyers and all them Stormtroopers to conquer the universe anyway. Blowing up a planet means that you cannot conquer it. Therefore it is a parallel goal. 2) Sephiroth may have "had" a reason to burn down Nibelheim, but it really wasn't much of a reason. Not enough to count. 3) I didn't include the Joker for two reasons (and I'm gonna take fire for one of them.) a) I already listed Kefka; b) Batman sucks. Oh, and did I mention that I AM a fan of FFVII, but I at least check what I'm talking about first? Then again, I may not be a suitable representative of FFVII fans; I liked Yuffie: "9999 damage to Seraph Sephiroth for no effort" and "Whinier but much funnier about it than the unmentionable FFVI character." The.DreadnoughT 03:13, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
I said "dominate." I don't know much about Star Wars, but my impression of the Death Star was that it was basically a WMD to make everyone too piss scared to fight him. Plus, he had a lot of goals besides blowing shit up, which is kind of the point. As for Sephiroth, YES, those reasons are good enough. They're clearly more than "I just want to watch shit burn." That was the entire argument! And I think you're confusing "suitable" with "common." The common fan thinks that Cloud is stronger than Sephiroth. The suitable fan knows that Sephiroth is basically the baddest of the bad, storyline wise. I don't hate any of the main cast, least of all Yuffie. As for the Joker, he still would have been a much better example than Sephiroth, Batman rocks, and are you sure you listed Kefka? I wasn't reading very carefully, but if you did, that seems a little redundant, since we were talking about Kefka in the first place.Neo Bahamut 03:22, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
You know what I really don't get? How the hell did FFVII even get involved here? The characters are from FFX and FFVI, VII was awesome, and in the middle, but it isn't invovled! What the hell?!?! Don't blame me for it, when someone calls Sephiroth "suckaroth" I get this urge to impale them with a sword, just to prove that Sephiroth is much better than they are. But that is impractical, immoral, and illegal, not to mention very messy, (and I don't own a sword, making it difficult) so I use words and "reasoned" argument (so bringing Sephiroth in was me helping defeat the impulse to impale whoever called Sephiroth such an ignorant, stupid name with the Masamune, more than anything else. Murder being a crime and all.) , like we all learn how to do in English class, but I didn't pay attention then, so... Maybe those two paragraphs are what one might call "venting?" Why am I arguing with someone whose opinions I at least partly agree with (ie, graphics don't make a game, VI is at least as good as VII, and that sometimes people who just like destroying shit are pretty awesome.) Oh, and the idea about mentioning Kefka being the same as mentioning the Joker, since you either failed to grasp it, or did and thought that wasn't what I meant, is that the Joker was the lame prototype for Kefka. And, fine, Sephiroth did have a reason to burn down Nibelhiem. It still has nothing to do with this fight. If you like VI and think its better than VII, great. If you think that X was the game to surpass all FF games, fine. If you love Ivalice, or want to destroy it to return a shitty real world, that's also fine. Just stop telling other people that their opinion about their game must be validated by playing another game, people. Let's come up with a new, better topic, such as the true meaning of life (wait, that's not debatable, it's 42...) or something else like that. The.DreadnoughT 03:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Umm...that's a lot to respond to...okay, here goes: VII pretty much always ends up getting involved with VI as, for some reason, in a conversation about FFVI, someone always feels the need to say how much better it is, &/or complain about the elusive "FFVII fanboys." The Joker CAN'T be a "lame prototype for Kefka," as Batman Begins (the only scenario that interprets him as an anarchist) came AFTERWARDS. And I highly doubt VI inspired BB, either. Sephiroth's reasons for destroying Nibelheim don't have anything to do with this fight. Neither does Darth Cidious having back-up clones of himself, creating 2 Death Stars, & generally being a psychopathic douchebag. That was all part of the distinction between motivations. Won't argue with "let people have theeir opinions." And, with regards to listing Kefka, I think you're the one who's not grasping it: It is REDUNDANT. We were already talking about Kefka, so listing Kefka as an example of someone who "just wants to destroy shit" while still being awesome to support the idea that Kefka can "just want to destroy shit" while still being awesome (which I never disagreed with) doesn't make sense. To potentially derail this conversation even further, it's like using a Bible quote to prove that the Bible is infalliable.Neo Bahamut 05:29, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Wow, there are a lot of long votes on Jecht. Kuzlalala Squee! 10:09, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

FinalAnnihilator First of all, I would like to agree 120% with the statement of Neo Bahamut. That almost is exactly what I would like to say. I too haven't played FFVI, and would love to, but the how aggresive FFVI fans become at those of other later Final Fantasies has actually made me hate it.

Yeah, I have to admit that it is a little of a put off. I've actually been more-or-less told to try FFVI & compare it to FFVII. I'm just thinking, "Why should I have to play a game to validate my enjoyment of another one?" I'm willing to try it, but not for that reason, & I just don't really feel like it, most of the time. Same with VIII, although with VIII, there is the added element that it would probably be way too difficult to find.Neo Bahamut 03:28, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
You know i actually like both FF6 and FF7, living in Europe, 7 was my first FF and 6 was my first 16-Bit FF, if you don't count Origins (and i also liked FF10 for that matter) even with this stupid fanboy war.And i have to say that if's that your reason to hate a game that you even didn't played, to be influenced by people like that, you must be a very sad person... CookiePinguy 21:53, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
You talking to him, or do you just not know how to read? Either way, "very sad person"? Wow, that's an awful lot of butthurt just because someone doesn't want to play a game that they've pretty much been conditioned to hate.Neo Bahamut 00:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes i was taking to him, but maybe you're the one that can't read, i said that it's very sad the fact to hate something that we don't know at all because of other's influences, but yeah you know, i also think is sad someone doesn't want to play a game that they've pretty much been conditioned to hate because of others. If i let people control me that way, and the lame state that our world is now, i would hate humanity by now. Why? "Pretty much been conditioned to hate". CookiePinguy 07:35, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
So you (NeoBawmut) play games to compare them with FFVII? I understand many things now. You hear the stupidities of a tard (because all tards says stupidities), and you think you know everythink of that theme. How disappointing. I understand any mention to FFX and FFVI (because this is a Jecht vs Terra, afterwards), and it's logic to make some reference to other game, but as someone told you before, who the fuck involved FFVII in this debate? You're transforming Jecht vs Terra in Kefka vs Sephiroth ._. You're always FFVII here, FFVII there... As I thought, you call people fanboys but you are the biggest one. In Spain we have a perfect proverb for you: "Ver la paja en el ojo ajeno pero no la viga en el propio". If you're bored, search for it's meaning.Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 14:14, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Eh? I didn't even see these here. If you're going to take shots at me, from now on, either do it in the current week, or take the bitching to my talk page, please? To Rai, that is so much fail that I don't even know where to begin. No, I complained at being more-or-less ordered to compare VI to VII, though I am curious as to why it's always trumpeted as some mythological deity. You do not understand many things, not the least of which is how to read a freakin' paragraph. I think you would be embarassed if you did, as you'd realize that my first reference to Sephiroth was attacking the at least a dozen posters who ranted about "FFVII fanboys" that weren't even HERE! I mean, did you not notice the repeated bitching about VII before I arrived? No, I did not, by any stretch of the imagination, drag VII into this. As always, I was responding to another post that referenced it. In particular, I refuse to let people bitch about being pestered by fanboys that are nowhere to be found. That is what I wish people like you would realize before they decide they want to paint me as some kind of crazed fanboy. To Pinguy, the fact is that you're still calling someone a very sad person for not wanting to play a game, which, quite frankly, is just dumb as Hell.Neo Bahamut 01:33, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Just take a look at the edit date. It was written before the current week fight. Well, about the "I complained at being more-or-less ordered to compare VI to VII, though I am curious as to why it's always trumpeted as some mythological deity", I have to excuse, you're wright, I understood it wrong. Following, the person who drag FFVII into this was the "mysterious editor" about the overrating, yeah, but the one who started the Kefka vs Sephiroth was you. I'm not going to lose more time arguing with a coward scared of let the people know who is, so I argued you, who continued his work (voluntary or not). Ah, and the people was attacking the fanboysm (or whatever it was): Sephiroth fanboys, Kefka fanboys, FFVII fanboys, FFVI fanboys, colored lights fanboys... all of them; because the "mysterious editor" accused all the people who like FFVI and think it deserves it's popularity of being fanboys like the FFVII fanboys. And well, let's just ignore this and the "mysterious editor" if he appears again. We all followed his trolling intentions. I'll not response anymore to this. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 12:53, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Week 114: Ultima v. Zodiark[edit source]

Ultima (FFXII).JPG
DNC Versus.png
FFXII zodiark.jpg
WINNER!
Ultima
34 to 28
The high goody goody light summon versus the super dark emo goth baddy summon. Feel free to consider this a Tactics battle too, since they appear there also, and in a form more describable in words.
Ultima (FFXII).JPG

Votes for Ultima[edit source]

  1. like her looks! she looks pretty powerfull ;P Rinoaheartilly
  2. Lol, my name is the greatest reason i could think of. Ultima The High Seraph 09:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
  3. Gonna have to go with Ultima, at least on her I can tell where her face is... Also FFTA... --Zephyrus11 10:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
  4. She's pretter. Kuzlalala 12:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
  5. I've always liked the design of Ultima because it feels different. Like a Seraphim or some such being. Summoner Seikyu
  6. It took me FOREVER to decide. In the end I'd rather NOT feel holy wrath. Plus I'm with the light. One day, I will get first vote! Judge Balthier 14:49, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
  7. I'm not too keen on darkness and evil. The light always wins anyway. (Isn't that what Final Fantasy is all about, goodness and purity kicking evil's ass?) - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 18:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
  8. BlueHighwind : Even if FFXII Ultima looks like she's half table, she's still better than the fish in the horseshoe.
  9. ScatheMote 19:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
  10. Jeppo: There's no way I'm voting for a fish!
  11. I ignored Zodiark. There are 12 astrological titles, not 13. And, of the twelve, Ultima is the mightiest. She led a rebellion against the gods, created an oppresive religion, and sacrificed hundreds of thousands for her resurrection. Don't mess with Ultima. ClixPsi
  12. I'm playing FFXII right now, but haven't played any FFT. But Ultima's one cool summon, I gotta say. Violetmage
  13. Hmm...If Ultima were a humanoid, she would be like Cosmos' sister...or cousin. Anyway, I'm more light than dark. ~P.M. 00:21, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
  14. Altima. Mistranslation or not, it sounds better than Ultima. More feminine. Anyway: Zodiark didn't do anything noteworthy in EITHER game. And don't let the light/dark thing fool you (especially since Zodiark attacked the exact same way in Tactics >_>), ALTIMA is the evil one, she'll blow you to shit, then burn you in Hell.Neo Bahamut 01:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
  15. Ultima means just that - ultimate. Also, it's the same name as the first RPG I ever played RowdyCMoore
  16. I'll pick Ultima. Haven't seen either of them ever in the game, so I'll take light over dark. Kupuntu 06:45, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
  17. I'll go with Ultima, I know it only from FFTa2, which it's really helpful, but also only as the spell it's based off of, which is really helpful (despite it's 'Bugness', or irrevalence to the story AFTER you get it in FF2). 13:27 8 April 2009 (UTC)Yath
  18. Of the two elements I like Light more. Ultima's definitely no Alexander and can't hold a candle to him, though. AnonyMan
  19. Mr. Rojo: I like more light than darkness and I like a lot Ultima (Altima :B) in FFT. 01:20 9 April 2009
  20. Wahahaha! she shares her name with the ultima magic, and has a cannon under her dress Archmael
  21. Ultima is the best summon in FFXII Mr_Darkside 07:27, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
  22. **spoilers** I beat The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess fifteen minutes ago, and Ultima reminds me of Midna in sexy form. Except they're exact opposites. Lulz. **spoilers** —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|02:52, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
  23. Sora G. Strife 09:12, 11 April 2009 (UTC): I am the same.
  24. Ultima is kick-ass! Saraija Merinas
  25. Soren 4ever 21:34, 11 April 2009 (UTC): Ultima was the only cool summon in XII.
  26. User:RainbowCecil88 17:43, 11 April 2009 (UTC): Ultima? After the most powerful spell in the series? Of course she should win!
  27. Hard decision, but Ultima masterminded the plot against the Occuria, and she was the Lucavi leader in Tactics. Zodiark's winged form is pretty sweet, though. 8bit 16:52, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
  28. User:SamSandy 17:33, 12 April 2009 (UTC):Ultima's background story is ways more interesting. Plus, Ultima looks so much better (I can't even tell what Zodiark is).
  29. User:JudgeMasterKefka17.02, 13 April 2009 (UTC):Ultima is way better than that Zordiak and She/He/It has A better summon movie.
  30. User:Blazelord: I like Ultima better. Why? I don't know
  31. Nokareon: Voting Ultima, not because of her XII appearance, but because she's the final boss of Tactics and has story to her in that game. Zodiark doesn't really have anything he can claim to him like that.
  32. Poliwirl100 02:17, 14 April 2009 (UTC) I DID NOT forget about her in RW She healed and did a kamehamehais type attack. Super chick gets my vote
  33. Lockhart - Close, but gotta go with Ultima here.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. 92.25.193.120 19:05, 7 April 2009 (UTC) because she's virgo, she's perdy, she's holy and she's the ultimate :D
  2. 63.215.27.209 22:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC) I'm voting for Ultima cuz she rocks. She may not be pretty, but those golden wings are beautiful and awesome. Plus, I'd pick light over darkness anyday.

Votes for Zodiark[edit source]

  1. Valeria : Zodiark is a powerhouse.
  2. He is existance and destruction. Even the gods fear him. Werefang 15:08, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
  3. Because he's cool, and by the way Ultima is NOT good looking, no matter how many times you sick souls say it to yourselfs, she still aint.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 19:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
  4. I honestly coundn't decide because I didn't care. But Zodiark is supposed to be more powerful, so... - +DeadlySlashSword+ 19:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
  5. I go with Darkness, and Zodiark is way better then Ultima.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 20:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
  6. I didn't even know this one existed. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 22:29, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
  7. Damn, it's hard. But altho Ultima led the rebellion, looks like some earth-destroying satellite, and is FFT's antagonist, I'll go with Zodiark. He may looks like a worm in a horseshoe, but he's so powerful the gods gota stop him from growing any stronger, and he's still a pain in your party's hard ass to beat. Imagine and adult Zodiark. (Maybe that's what Yiazmat is...) Leon5550 23:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
  8. I admit I don't know much about this thing at all, or about the summoned version of Ultima, but Ultima (the spell) has a really lame animation, and I don't feel like voting for anything "light." Go evil! The.Dreadnought 01:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
  9. BrodyGunner - Zodiark may be a weird fish...thing with an overdrawn, lame attack, but he's still cool. Better than freaking Ulti-skirt
  10. Super dark emo goth baddy summon- Lolcakes 04:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
  11. Zodiark is unexplainable: instant win. Besides, Ophiuchus > Virgo. - Henryacores^ 14:40, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
  12. ArableLadle: Emo summon :3
  13. This thing was WAY harder to kill then ultima. Exdeath64 17:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
  14. KinofChoas if a warrior of light uses a dark summon, no one will see it coming
  15. Let Darkness Rein OwlEye 20:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
  16. So... a monster that is feared by gods vs a strange looking thing sitting on a flying seat. This is the basic (and always a classic) fight... dark vs light and since shadows cover light it is pretty easy pickings for Zodiark--Blackwing11 23:36, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
  17. Zodiark Sibyrihl
  18. Heretic Ramza Even though Ultima, is Ivalices version of Satan, Zodiark is the only scion/summon that is stronger and un corrupted by her.
  19. Just hate the Esper design of Ultima. Also, Serpentarius/Ophiucius/whatever is cool. Snakes are cool. And Ultima's shots come from its... well, you know. I don't call that a virgo. Zak Undersn 16:09, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
  20. Ultima rocks, but Zodiark is stronger, and he's only a baby! Do you know anything else that kicks so much butt while being only a baby? Gyromite 08:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
  21. Zodiark. I like destroying reality. If they used Ultima's design from FFT (first battle) I might have vote differently. ChaosEsperVII
  22. Zodiark is kickass Yuffie2211
  23. Vampyro entertaiment 11:29, 12 April 2009 (UTC) Emos are the best thing everh!!!!! besides i have myself always found my aliance in the evil so this fits me perfectly.
  24. Because he's losing. I like both. Karu
  25. I want a draw, I like & dislike both Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 22:12, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
  26. The one I could never obtain, instead of the pain in the ass to obtain User:Leiber_Mage 3:56 13 April 2009 (UTC)
  27. Zordiark, cooler final attack and MUCH easier to use!Blackheart1991 16:40, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. 75.181.21.7 14:52, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
  2. 68.237.117.222 02:19, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Yes! My suggestion happened. I-I can't decide! NOOOO!!! Judge Balthier 14:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Um... congrats?  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 19:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Not too bad. I'm still trying to think of a fight I'd be interested in, besides a rematch of Kefka vs. Sephiroth (to see if the outcome will change after AC & all fo that shit). Anyway, opinionated asshole time: I do think Altima (I like the mistranslation better) looked pretty good, in her first form, and her FFXII form has something high-&-mighty about it, as well. Plus, it's sort of a combination of her 2 original forms (and a weird airship thing), which is neat. Personally, I like the Tactics designs better, but XII did something neat in that it gave them an Eastern design, to contrast the medieval characteristics of the original Lucavi. In fact, I wish the original Altima had those golden wings. That was an awesome idea. And, as much as I hate XII's storyline for the Espers, they did establish an origin of the Lucavi, which was good. What else? Little annoyed that all of the Zodiark votes are all "omg dark=cool," but whatever.Neo Bahamut 01:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Um, for those people above calling Zodiark a fish, it's supposed to be a snake. It's supposed to be modeled after an imaginary thirteenth zodiac symbol. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 01:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

The 13th Zodiac Symbol isn't imaginary, it was one of the ones originally proposed, but it obviously didn't make the final cut. It fulfills all the requirements for an astralogical sign, but there just weren't enough months. It isn't called Serpentarius, though. It's Ophicles, or something like that. The serpent bearer.Neo Bahamut 02:02, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, imaginary or not, it's not a fish and not an official zodiac symbol. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 02:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
It looks more like a fish than it does a snake. Jeppo 02:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Don't blame me, blame FFXII's graphics designers. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 02:54, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I DO blame XII's graphic designers! A lot of that shit looks like somebody was having a seizure while they were drawing it! In particular, I hate how all of the dragons have rings around their necks...did Amano do the art for this one?Neo Bahamut 03:01, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Bahamuth in FFX has a stupid ring in his back, but I assume that you forgot it. Karu
Only one thing, Nomura is a poor designer. Amano's style is weird, but as designer is infinitely better than i-draw-all-my-characters-with-the-fucking-same-face Nomura. The only few good characters drawn by Nomura were all designed by Amano. Just STFU if you, as always, don't know what are you talking about. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 02:37, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
You can blame them all you want. I think they did a good job compared to all the other games. It's got to be pretty hard to design the entire world of the game as a single continuous dungeon. Most of the earlier games just had the world map with a handfull of places to explore. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 03:07, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
FFX had much better art, and its world was designed in a similar way. And even though the other games weren't as graphically advanced, at least you could tell were the summons' faces were.Neo Bahamut 03:48, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
IMO, I think FFXII has the best art, but that's just me. And you guys forgot one very important aspect. Zodiark is just a "child" esper, the gods stops his growth. He's a larva esper, not those full grown adults. In that, the designers did an excellent job doing a larva demi-god, full with the harness (horseshoe) he'll wear when he's all grown up. Leon5550 05:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Good art doesn't equal to clear pictures. It's really hard to tell or remember the summons from XII, but I still think they're beautiful. FFX was a damn good game and it was colorful and beautiful too, but the graphics aren't very pretty compared to XII. Kupuntu 06:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Even though I like Amano's artwork, there are few of his which are pretty flattening. Nomura may be a poor designer but the characters he created was photorealisitic in CG. (BTW, I think The Last Remnant have an even better art than any FF game.) MTC
NeoBawmut, just stick your tongue into your asshole and leave it for a while. Your entire life, for example. Zak Undersn 16:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Does someone need a hug? I suggest you keep those dumbass comments to yourself, Hamsh-Zak m'boy. He stated his opinion, yet you attack him. Judge Balthier 00:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

NeoBahamut is always insulting and disrespecting everyone than didn't think like him, and also he thinks he knows everything even in things he know nothing about (many of them). I understand Zak, patience has limits. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 02:01, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Does someone needs to STFU? I suggest you keep your stupidity to yourself, whatever-I-could-call-you-now. He's like a gigantic hemorrhoid who thinks of himself a majestic cranial tumor. The only thing he does well is blabbering and whining with no rational reason. Also, i'm just taunting him to look at his reaction and laugh about it. And this is better than I expected. Zak Undersn 13:48, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

It's funny how people who vote for Zodiark say "Emo Baddy, Darkness FTW!" even though Ultima is the female version of Lucifer. BTW, Zaky, that comment clearly showed your stupidity because that comment obiviously didn't work. B) And you're still, insulting people! XD, people these days... Judge Balthier 03:50, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

It's not like they want to follow Lucifer into Hell to have lunch and discuss evil or anything, they just want to say,"Oh yeah? Well I'm evil and everyone knows the bad guys are always cooler than the good guys." It's more of a fad than anything else. Seriously, if these people were put into a final-fantasy-like adventure in real life and could choose their side, I bet 90% of them would choose the good side. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 04:05, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that's a pity. When I think about all those people who won't get to know my true self because I insulted you, only because I was bored and didn't have anything to do, in this page... oh, I'm really ashamed... Oh, and on a sidenote: the comment did work. Just on a different and unexpected, yet funnier, way. You know what trolling goes for? Zak Undersn 11:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Umm, if anyone cares, I think I've gotten that thing about the 13th Zodiac sign right. Serpentarius is a constellation thats Zodiacal....o.o Even though the Sun passes through it, astrologers won't have it! So umm...NeoBahamut was kind of right. I don't know if he actually knew though. 13 pieces of the equator would be wrong as well as 13 months. o.o did anyone gain something from this? O.o Oh, and Zakky, Trolling goes for getting BANNED. I think B) Judge Balthier 16:25, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

And what made you think that I wasn't looking for that? I'm not stupid, you know. Anyway, you didn't answer my question. And you're feeding the troll. Zak Undersn 11:17, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
One, I wasn't talking to you specifically. Two, I know you're not stupid. Three, I don't understand your question and could care less anymore. T.T Judge Balthier 15:12, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

How many times has the fight had the number of votes the same on both sides? We might have that right now and it probably doesn't happen very often. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 20:49, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

There is more spam here than in most of the other fights... I wonder what the fusion of Zodiark and Ultima what look like? --Gerdat14 13:36, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

So that's why the DNC pages are getting larger than life... I just can't understand why people attack each others opinions, it's like saying: "I like chocolates" and the other said "Chocolates look like ****" then the fight begins, can I ask, Why? (REALLY CAN'T UNDERSTAND TROLLING PEOPLE)Devil Breaker 00:42, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

That's kind of why we have this peanut gallery, so peole can express their opinions without skrewing up the voting area. Look in the archives to see the mess this was before the peanut gallery. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 01:15, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Week 113: Ramuh v. Leviathan[edit source]

FFT Ramuh.jpg
DNC Versus.png
FFT Leviathan.jpg
WINNER!
Leviathan
51 ½ to 15
Its really hard to tell when you drop the toaster into the bathtub whether the water or the electricity hurts more, contents of the bathtub aside, so the only reasonable Final Fantasy way of deciding is putting the thunder shaker up against the great water wyrm.
FFT Leviathan.jpg

Votes for Ramuh[edit source]

  1. First vote, yay!!! BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 02:44, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  2. Second vote. There's something I just find very cool about Ramuh. He may be an old man, but he's got spunk. In short, I like him better because he has more of a personality than Leviathan. George B. (talk) 04:27, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  3. He had way more storyline purpose than Leviathan. --BigCubby 11:28, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  4. I prefer the elderly. Besides, Leviathan should be this bigass fish, not some eel. Leon5550 13:44, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  5. Easier to kill, less MP to use, but less powerful...two out of three ain't bad. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 19:11, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  6. That rumble we call "thunder" is caused by air literally EXPLODING. Last time I checked, when water falls from the sky, little kids and dogs play in it, rather than hiding under the bed. And water doesn't cause the air to explode.The.Dreadnought 21:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  7. While Leviathan may have debuted first, Ramuh is the thurder summon on par with Shiva and Ifrit. He may have been shafted in recent titles, but he use to be the standard for thunder summons. Ramuh's story importance has typically exceeded Leviathan. Ramuh was a sort of guiding spirit for the parties of FFVI and IX by pointing the groups in the right direction before they became actual summons. The best Levianth got was being the king of the Feymarsh in FFIV. ClixPsi
  8. I hate Ramuh, but I hate Leviathan more. Waffletime 12:13, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  9. Akbaroth 05:28, 2 April 2009 (UTC)i cried tears of joy after reading vote #6
  10. Skoot85 uhhh i like ramuh :D
  11. Vegna Gunner It's the classic case of thunder vs water, so there's no arguement in a fight
  12. AnonyMan: Well, Ramuh is a cool Summon, especially in the games where he's got a character and personality(like IX). I have much respect for Leviathan, though, and I'm quite surprised with the number of votes he has.
  13. Char6296 Eh, the guy has helped me so many times in FFIV. :)
  14. cloudiroth Lightning > Water. (and also machine's that one never made sense, surely water would be better, short circuit them or something). Oh, and infinitely useful thunder god > slightly awesome but hard to look at sea dragon, that is initially cool but soon realised completely useless (VIII was the only time i think I ever use the leviathan summon more than once).
  15. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L - I expected him to lose, but not this badly...

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

Kairyu - Erm... it's a thunder elemental versus a water one. No contest, even if one of them's a frail old man and the other's a huge sea serpent. In this case, the oldie FRIES the serpent. CG - Ramuh has personality, a spark, if you will. My vote goes to him over Levvy.

Votes for Leviathan[edit source]

  1. BlueHighwind : Water is blue, so I always liked that element the best.
  2. Leviathan is one of my favorite summons, and its FFVIII artwork is a favorite talk bubble image of mine. 8bit 02:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  3. I have a Leviathan Master Creatures figure...sorry Ramuh...Chocolancer 02:33, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  4. The Leviathan is my second favorite summon next to Bahamut.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 02:43, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  5. Uhh.. Lolcakes 03:17, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  6. First vote: Lightning is blue, too. Meh. I never liked Ramuh as a summon. Or any other of the lightning summons, either. Plus, Leviathan is usually more powerful. And it's worshipped as a GOD in FFVII! Phallic or not, it's getting my vote!Neo Bahamut 04:53, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  7. Derum Leviathan FTW, Baby!
  8. ...Because Leviathan has an airship named after it. (There's no Airship named Ramuh, right?) Also, Ramuh was a random encounter at FFV. It attacked when my party was dying. DVardonir 10:33, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  9. Leviathan PWNS!!!!! and he was the first GF you could boost to over 200 percent damnage and had a REALLY cool animation. --Gerdat14 11:33, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  10. Tsunami beats Judgement Bolt any day of the week. Jeppo
  11. All hail Leviathan!!! My favorite summon :3 Karu
  12. Levy! CookiePinguy 13:27, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  13. I'm an Aquarius and Leviathan represents water...so yeah... Judge Balthier 13:33, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  14. I always loved Leviathan, is my second favourite summon. It's a fucking awesome-cool-huge- dragonlike sea serpent, like Jormungand <3 I specially like the VIII version. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 14:05, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  15. Even though water is weak to lightening, I'm still going to go with Leviathan. The damage it usually causes is of "Biblical proportions", lol Heretic Ramza
  16. If it was quesacotl, i woluld have voted differently, however Lavisthan look awesome in VIII. And Ramuh reminds me of the worst ideah aver, a God version of Tellah. 1stclasswarrior 14:54, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  17. Yeah I idea for a battle got picked again :) Mr_Darkside 19:18, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  18. Leviathan is beautiful...and pretty much kills everything until you get Bahamut. - Henryacores^ 18:27, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  19. ScatheMote 20:53, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  20. Go the snake thing!! AtmaCrisis 23:53, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  21. Leviathan is one of the hidden summons that you have to fight as a boss before useing, so that puts it on the same level as Behamut, but nowhere close to beating him. Ramuh doesn't stand a chance. - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 00:07, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  22. Leviathan saved my butt in FFVIII. I've also always had a fascination with water. Violetmage
  23. BrodyGunner - Leviathan kicks ass, without legs!
  24. Rydiaofmist: This one is easy. Water is my favorite element, and I'm a huge fan of serpents.
  25. No contest whatsoever. Seeing as you get Leviathan near the end of most Final Fantasy games, I'm gonna have to vote for Leviathan, because as much as Ramuh has helped me through the series... Leviathan's just bad-ass. KytaEternal 08:41, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  26. SeKaLoYa 13:07, 1 April 2009 (UTC) Thunder and lightning can be avoided, but what makes it CERTAIN DEATH is if you're drenched in water...
  27. I just love Leviathan. Serpents are too friggin' awesome. And Leviathan is above that. Anyway, Ramuh rocks. An old man who can strike people with thunderbolts aimed to his own cane can't be any bad. But Leviathan is far greater than that, he's... Leviathan. Zak Undersn 15:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  28. Sevler425Leviathan was one of my favorite Summons, he had alot of power plus hes kinda unique. And water is just a cool element.
  29. Water's my element. -Alarielle- 16:24, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  30. BLOOD!!!  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 17:43, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  31. I have to say Leviathan. I absolutely love the Leviathan summon and i really didn't care for the old dude with the lightning. If it was like Leviathan vs Bahamut, or Leviathan vs Shiva, i would have a harder time choosing. so LEVY ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Leonhart178 19:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  32. The lord of of the sea dragons pwns the crothcety old geezer OwlEye 19:56, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  33. Leviathan! Wish he had been in X, they needed a water summon. --Zephyrus11 21:15, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  34. Leviathan would so kick Ramuh's butt, anytime, anyday. Soldier of Light
  35. --JohnnyC 01:17, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
  36. MTC
  37. I've just always like Leviathan more. I think it's his art... I dunno, I just like him! 24.218.245.17 02:37, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
  38. I was always wondering why he wasn't an aeon in ffx. ChaosEsperVII
  39. Leviathan. Sibyrihl
  40. I'm currently listening to Blue by A Perfect Circle. And blue is such a lovely colour for you. I love being random. :D —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|21:42, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
  41. This was kinda hard, but in the end... SOLDIER1stJ
  42. Leviathan looks cooler, even though I don't even know this summon (I only know Ramuh) Kuzlalala 12:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
  43. I think Leviathan is cooler even tho I don't use summons that much. Kupuntu 19:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
  44. A giant Leviathan vs a puney little man... you do the math.--Blackwing11 01:11, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
  45. Lockhart - Gotta go with Leviathan here.
  46. Leviathan's a mighty sea beast, Ramuh's an old man... SonOfAJenova 20:11, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
  47. Leviathan is the best. Kurokikaze 09:37, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
  48. Maverick Riot
  49. RoxasXIII While Ramuh is often wise, Leviathan is a complete badass, being far stronger, harder to get etc. Also he usually has better summon animations.
  50. Mr. Rojo: I like a lot Leviathan, he is strong, he usually has great summon animations & i like more water. 20:36, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. 209.244.187.208 21:19, 31 March 2009 (UTC) Even though I'm unfamiliar with both summons, I have to vote for Leviathan, mostly because I prefer water over lightning, his name has more elegance than Ramuh, he seems more beautiful, and not to mention that I luv aqua way more than electric blue and lightning gold / yellow. =)
  2. 69.232.159.190 I have lots of respect for Ramuh, but I gotta vote for Leviathan due to its massive power. Usually, Leviathan is second only to Bahamut in terms of damage/power
  3. 75.181.21.7 20:57, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Hmm...I'm really having a hard time deciding on this one. I happen to like both elements. Cluna 06 02:28, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Yuck, it took me forever to decide. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 02:44, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Technically, if you drop the toaster (or any other electrical appliance for that matter) into the bath then nothing would happen. The electricity won't reach the water in the bath for the simple reason that it would melt the fuse of the toaster. Jeppo 12:04, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Technically, if you drop the toaster and the fuse doesn't melt, the electrical current won't reach the water either. Water is a poor conductor. What would fry the person in the bathtub would be the electricity moving through the metallic ions dissolved in the water. Faethinverba volant 15:07, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

It would have been cooler if it had Quetzacoatl. In my opinion. Judge Balthier 13:37, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Quetzal rulz. In the original aztec mythology, Ramuh and him are the same person. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 14:07, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
DS artwork may have been better, Ramuh just looks like a multicoloured cloth. 1stclasswarrior 14:52, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

To the guy who said that Leviathan should be a fish: Are you aware of the fact that the Bible SPECIFICALLY refers to Leviathan as a serpent & a dragon? Also, moar nitpicking: A lightning bolt is very unlikely to injure a person. Nine times out of ten, they strike nothing. Sure, they CAN take out a dozen people at once, but lightning is unpredictable and unreliable. A tsunami, on the other hand, WILL tear through a third world country and kill hundreds of people, as well as destroying the general landscape and architecture.Neo Bahamut 23:53, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, sometimes Leviathan is represented as a giant whale. Karu
And as a huge (and usually fat) shark. I saw representations of Leviathan as a inmense abyssal fish, too. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 20:37, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Ah, but are those portrayls ACCURATE to the ORIGINAL description? The only one I would say makes a claim to be what Leviathan "should be" is a whale, as it's often been theorized that Leviathan is like most sea monsters: Overexaggerations of something that actually exists. And even then, as a fantasy genre, it should go with the exaggerated version.Neo Bahamut 21:03, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Originally, God created in the fifth day of the creation two monstrous whale-like fishs: male and female. God killed the female, because if they were to procreate the world could not stand before them, but had mercy on the male, called Leviathan. In the Bible adaptation, the one killed was the male. Search well in the Bible (or use google, wikipedia can help you too). Sin (FFX) is a more accurate version of the original Leviathan than the summon one. The original Bahamut was a ugly fish, too XD By the way, why are you always shouting in your edits? relax, man. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 22:32, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
In fact, the very firsts representations of the Leviathan were a plain fish. A big one, but a fish. No more, no less. Anyway, with the time, the word twisted and the appearance of the monster did too. Some of the quotes about the Leviathan mention him like a gigantic (hundreds of miles in lenght) fish with horns. Also, biblic Behemot is ugly. Zak Undersn 22:52, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Alright, I get the point, the Bible is a vague-ass book that doesn't give any useful details. But seriously, who wants a fish? Then again, there is like a 16-foot long fish that is essentially a sea serpent....
If you don't like the fish version, ok everyone respects your opinion, but don't go saying that the serpent one is the original, because it's not true. And no. A 16-foot long fish is not a sea serpent. It can be fat. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 12:52, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
And bitch, it is EMPHSESIS. ALL CAPS! is shouting. ALL CAPS. is emphesis. ALL CAPS with some lower case letters! Is a bit of both. If there is a bold function, I have no idea how to use it, and no desire to learn.Neo Bahamut 00:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Just STFU, will you? Zak Undersn 12:44, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Again insulting *sigh*. Simply use your eyes. When you edit, the bold function code is in the left side. It appears as default. Using caps all the time is really annoying. And you too. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 12:52, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Seriously mercy rule Osf 22:04, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh no, another landslide victory! I didn't know everyone loved Leviathan, I thought Ramuh was a well-liked summon. Chocolancer 04:03, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

What on Earth would make you say that? An old guy who shoots lightning. Bo-ring.Neo Bahamut 21:03, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, this was pretty much lopsided. That was unexpected. IMO. I hate those types of matches. Judge Balthier 14:38, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that Leviathan is more powerful in many games. And power is what's most important for a summon, isn't it ? -Alarielle- 16:26, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Not at all, many people (like me) prefers coolness. If you make a match between... Ifrit and... Titan, Kjata, Typhoon or someone else I probably will vote Ifrit, I just love him. Same in a Shiva vs Ultima. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 19:29, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Most people probably go with power, but add me to the coolness (& usefulness, in some cases) tally. If you put Valefor and Anima up against each other, I'd vote for Valefor. Anima is cool, but...ooh, dark summon. So original. And yeah, I don't like landslides, either.Neo Bahamut 21:03, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

To the person wondering why Leviathan wasn't in FFX: Too similar to Sin. There also might be some problems in designing the summon to fit with the rest, but the carving in Crisis Core really reminded me of an FFX Leviathan.Neo Bahamut 01:52, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

That's probably true... I'm just used to the games having a water summon. The element is just as central as lightning/blizzard/fire in the games. At least as far as summons go... They don't use water magic much... Plus A fayth statue of leviathan would look so raw. ChaosEsperVII
The monster in the Monster arena entrance wall looked like Leviathan. I saw a fan picture of A Leviathan fayth statue and Tidus was the fayth as it was Yuna's final summoning fayth, It was kinda koolMr_Darkside 13:04, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
You an FFT fan? (Joke about you using a "k" instead of a "c.") Anyway, that Final Aeon thing makes sense, in a way. Too bad we'll never know for sure.
And really, they screw you over with elements all the time. VII had several annoying ones: Alexander was the ONLY holy attack, there were no water spells, you couldn't use Aero despite having 2 wind summons (I think that was a last minut e exclusion, actually--there was a Quake spell), and there were several attacks that used multiple elements, and if the enemy was healed by or immune to 1, then the entire attack was wasted.
Then, in FFT, a lot of enemies were weak to water, but your only water attack was Leviathan.
Also, Crisis Core particularly annoys me, because it has fire/lightning/and blizzard materia, but only the fire element makes any difference--and not often--in your enemies.Neo Bahamut 19:34, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Mr. Darkside if you woulf show me that Fayth statue, I would greatly appreciate it. It would make sense that Tidus would take that form because of the whole water theme with him. ChaosEsperVII

What a very weird outcome. Especially considering Water is a fairly unpopular and underrepresented element. Anony

To be honest, I'm not surprised in the slightest. Ramuh is so...unimpressive. I remember seeing him for the first time in FFVII, and going, "What the Hell was that?! It was just some old guy!" I took an instant preference to Ixion (even though I'm not fond of him, either.) I mean, damn, at least when Shiva attacks, she doesn't look like she's riddled with arthiritis!Neo Bahamut 07:53, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
I love Ixion. ChaosEsperVII
Unicorns suck. Especially ones with pointlessly ornate and topheavy horns. And someone mentioned being confused at why lightning worked on machines: That confused me at first, too, but when you think about it, most technology is waterproofed. A lightning bolt, on the other hand, will ALWAYS cause a short circuit. Even so, it's not like that in every game. In Crisis Core, lightning didn't do anything special robots, much to my dismay. They just made robots devoid of MP to drain, the bastards.Neo Bahamut 00:15, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
The biggest cheap shot when it comes to Machines vs Thunder is the fact that their weak against it in FFX, but asorb it in FFX-2.  Armageddon11! Dissicon ff12 Gab2.png 10:24, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Week 112: Shinra Electric Power Company v. Church of Yevon[edit source]

Shin-ra logo.jpg
DNC Versus.png
Yevon.png
WINNER!
Shinra
51 to 18
Another more unique fight, and coincidentally, it gives Final Fantasy X fans a chance to vindicate itself from last week when the Church of Yevon, an uncommonly well equipped religion, faces off versus the Shinra Electric Power Company, which itself isn't the most benevolent of utility companies.
Shin-ra logo.jpg

Votes for Shinra[edit source]

  1. BlueHighwind : Yevon only has that rocking Hymn, but that was ripped-off the Fayth. Shinra is the best-dressed organization in the entire series.
  2. Yevon is a church which is pure and holy and crap, while Shinra is borderline evil and draining the environment of life. AWSOME! - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 01:51, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  3. I'll vote for Shinra because they have SOLDIER all Yevon have is monks.  NeoZEROX Dissicon ff6 Ter4.png 02:03, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  4. I don't have any long-winded explanation for this week. I just prefer Shin-Ra. ClixPsi
  5. Lion heart 02:32, 25 March 2009 (UTC) Hands Down for ShinRa....COme on they Have SOLDIERS and MAko.
  6. SOLDIER, The Turks, Mako, Global domination, the snazziest suits this side of Midgar... - +DeadlySlashSword+ 06:33, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  7. Onionknight23 Shinra has Soldiers and Turks!!!
  8. Lolcakes I like the way they dress. Grooooovy~
  9. Malachi Lionheart This vote is mainly going towards Rufus, and the Turks. Also Shinra have SOLDIER, and don't think Yevon had that much to offer. At least thats what I remember anyway.
  10. I vote Shinra all the way! - Sencilia
  11. Turks >>> Maesters, SOLDIER >>> Yevon's summoners, Junon procession minigame >>> Hymn, Genetic experiments >>> "Oh no, a "máquina" (machina)! heretic! *runs away*", Midgar >>> Bevelle, ShinRa staff >>> Yevon church staff, ShinRa dirty business >>> Yevon dirty business,... The Sister Ray can take Seymour's summons and %$&#%@ them. ShinRa is greedy, Yevon church is conformist and coward. And ShinRa had Hojo. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 09:08, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  12. KimahriRonsoShinRa can't be compared to Yevon..ShinRa's better for sure
  13. Shinra has Turks, and Ho-will make you shit bricks-jo. Yevon has... Seymour? Zak Undersn 14:55, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  14. Turks. Karu
  15. No organisation has destroyed more towns and ruined more lives than Shinra. Jeppo
  16. Beacause it deserves it. - Bluesilver
  17. I'm going with Shinra, despite my distaste for much of anything FFVII. I'm picking Shinra, not because they're cool(they aren't), not because of lame ass Science experiments gone loco; not because of SOLDIER(is that a bit redundant?) The real reason is(and probably been mention a few times the Turks. One of the few saving graces in VII's story. AnonyMan
  18. Shinra all the way! They may only have a small area but all that area is is PURE POWER! Sevler425
  19. Shinra hands down! I'm not on the FFVII bandwagon but Shinra created most of the choas in the whole FFVII compelation! It also parrallels the greed and amoral tactics of real life multinational coroparations and its existance in the game almost appears to be a political warning of what could happen if governments weren't to restrict their activities. It WAS the government in the game for goodness sakes! Also most of the followers and even officials of the church of Yevon were not aware of their "god's" true nature where the Shinra execs were a bunch of money hungry assholes cashing in on energy at the planet's expense.Heretic Ramza
  20. Absolutely NO contest! SOLDIER1stJ
  21. Shinra. Let's face it, the Church of Yevon was not that threatening. They ruled like the bronze age religions, through their patrons' sheer ignorance of their activities. Most people actually KNEW at least SOME of the things Shinra was up to, but they were all too piss scared (or, in some cases, reaping the benefits) to do anything about it. Shinra has superior robotics, genetic technology, army personnel, weapons, knowledge, and operatives. They were also better organized: There was a weapons department, an urban department, etc. They had operatives for specific duties: The Turks were their secret police, the main army were really more like law enforcement, SOLDIER was their main army and their public face, etc. "Bandwagon" aside, there is a lot of evidence for Shinra's superiority. However, I do have an alternate viewpoint, but I'll put it in the Peanut Gallery.Neo Bahamut 21:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  22. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 22:20, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  23. ChaosEsperVII The only argument that I have that has not been addressed was the song "Shinra Company". Can anyone tell me that it didn't make the fight against Proud Clod even more epic?
  24. The people at Shin-Ra are smarter than the Yevon monks. AJ Werefang 02:20, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
  25. LOL You're kidding, right? Obviously Shinra<3 Yzz 03:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
  26. AtmaCrisis 06:53, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
  27. Neosamuel So easy Shinra was so much better, pitty it lost its villian status in Advent Children but in the origninal FF7 and Crisis Core they kicked ass. Plus who could argue with some of there members from the money happy President Shinra to crasy ass Hojo and the Turks, No one messes with Shinra... exept Sephiroth but thats another story.
  28. SeKaLoYa 13:07, 26 March 2009 (UTC) Making crazy weapons is cooler than having the people blindly follow you. I also hate that stupid "sphere salute" (the thing where you curve your hands and then bend down). The only good thing about Yevon is their awesome song.
  29. I hate them both. Nothing good with Soldier OR Turks. But, as I think Yevon feels bit too much a real religion, the one that hasn't done anything good, I'm not going to vote for Yevon. Kupuntu 13:14, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
  30. The fact that Shinra is an evil power company seeking destruction of a zillion things AND ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING (Unlike Yevon) makes it worthy of a vote. How many other companies do you see experimenting on their own, killing billions of people and towns, and wants to suck the life out of the planet? (And Rufus and the Turks ROCK!) *Cloud Strife 14:16, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
  31. Lockhart - Yevon are clowns compared to Shinra.
  32. User:Sera89-Shinra's just better all around. I mean, the one thing I liked about Yevon was Seymour, but other than that...no. Shinra has the Turks, Reno and Rude, and of course Rufus. Not to mention for a little while they had that one crazy guy who burned down Nibelheim...
  33. Hyacynth Shinra has the Turks. 'Nuff said.
  34. BritBoy 18:21, 26 March 2009 (UTC) Man I feel sorry for Yevon, it's (deservedly) going to get massacred. Yevon was the preliminary enemy in X, as Shinra was the preliminary enemy in VII, but once Seymour is more involved you end up not caring about Yevon, whereas Shinra are present all the way through, and while Yevon is cool, Shinra has them beat in every department.
  35. Under what possible circumstance could Yevon win against the Shin-Ra Electric Power Company? For starters, Shin-Ra is way cooler, in my humble estimation. Not only that, Shin-Ra has much better technolgy, with real guns, airships and robots, and is presumably able to produce more in factories or research, design and produce consecutive new and improved models, rather than have to dig up a finite supply of crappy rifles, half-arsed flamethrowers, and some useless robots, the use of which is extremely controversial anyway. Furthermore, Shin-Ra probably has more manpower, along with SOLDIER and the Turks, against some shitty Summoners. Finally, Shin-Ra has Rufus, and the Sister Ray, whereas Yevon has a bunch of undead people and a machine thats equally as powerful as the Sister Ray, but which they're too shit-scared of to use. The Man In The Black Cape 19:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC) - No Cloud nor Squall shall hinder me
  36. Shin-ra has SOLDIER, the Turks, a great waredrobe, and Sister Ray. Elypsis 19:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
  37. They made Sehiroth, need I really say more? 1stclasswarrior 20:32, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
  38. Because Shinra has winged people. Angel wings are more than enough of a reason to vote for this. Oh, and because I'm antheist. —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|00:27, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
  39. A power company sounds pretty weak against a corrupt Government, but surprisingly enough, Shinra is better. And I like the Hymn of the Fay...What? that is Yevon? Nevermind then. Cloudofdarkness was [| here] 01:02, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
  40. Derum didn't like either group but VII>X
  41. I'd wanna drain the planet's life too. Soldier of Light
  42. Yevon Kills Tecnology, Shinra kills Planets and life. Shinra is more dangerous CookiePinguy 09:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
  43. Lord Eliwood Shinra created Vincent. What did Yevon create? Seymour? Baralai? Hah!
  44. Rydiaofmist Even though I voted for Sin, I'm still picking Shinra. I'm not really a big fan of organized religion in general, and you've gotta admit, Shinra had style.
  45. In addition to the Turks and SOLDIERs Shinra had an interesting board of directors, each having their place in the storyline [1]. Maybe I didn't like Cait Sith that much, but I really got worried when they arrested Reeve. And the same goes for the rest of the directors. Well, maybe not Palmer... Vohaul86
  46. I've always had a love-hate view on Shinra, but the positives outweigh the negatives. Sure it's an evil monopolizing company effectively destroying the world, but who better to provide the elite SOLDIER or the CIA resembling Turks? I even thought the normal infantrymen were awesome. Shinra's technology also helped me out many times, like when I got lazy and tired of walking across the entire Planet in 5 minutes, I stole and airship and now it only takes about 20 seconds! --Roxasxiii 17:57, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
  47. I Will Never Vote For Organized Religion. OwlEye 23:34, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
  48. Hojo Metus 00:32, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  49. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L - Its like something that I'd vote for versus something that sucks.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Special:Contributions/69.232.159.190 Church sucks and religion sucks. A huge company with its own army, weapons, crazy scientists and Turks? Definitely awesome. Anything with the Turks is worth my vote.
  2. 72.23.69.192 06:25, 26 March 2009 (UTC)Shinra feels more "real" than Yevon did. Like standing up to Shinra felt like it had real consquences while standing up to Yevon, just kinda branded you a heretic...and nothing else.
  3. 63.215.27.209 20:36, 26 March 2009 (UTC) Shinra was draining the planet of its life and Yevon created a bunch of rules for others to follow when they wouldn't even follow them themselves. So, um, yeah, I vote for Shinra.
  4. 67.193.231.184 20:38, 26 March 2009 (UTC) Because of the ridiculously powerful Mako Cannon. ("All I want for Christmas is that huge gun, so I can wipe the (expletive deleted) Random Battle enemies off the face of the planet!")

Votes for Yevon[edit source]

  1. 1st post, its only coz I like the song of the faithMr_Darkside 07:23, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  2. Since i am a total newb, i gotta go with the church as any religous reference simply PWNS any environmental hazard referance. Take that Rufus! --Gerdat14 12:10, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  3. What could possibly be more evil than to unleash the greatest weapon ever seen on some poor continent for the sole purpose of forcing an enemy nation into a religion that worships you? Now that I think on it, I'm adding that to my to-do list. Also, as soon as Yevon topples, half the world is so lost that it founds New Yevon. When Shin-ra fails, the world moves on without it. //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 13:05, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  4. ScatheMote 13:17, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  5. Faethinverba volant : Kate would vote for Yevon.
  6. Another FFVII vs. FFX match? And I'm still voting FFX! Yu Yevon controlled almost everyones religious beliefs. FOR ALMOST 1000 years! I think Judge Balthier 15:17, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  7. Voting for FFX again because i'm sick of listening to idiots talking about a FF7 remake IRL -_- and how it would be "OMFGAWESUM"Tornadium
  8. Yevon's going to be squished. So, um.... I like its design. It's rather ornate. o.O 8bit 20:24, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  9. Ultimately, Shinra's actions were fueled by Avarice, whereas Yevon had this crazy obsession with death. In addition, Yevon was far more hypocritical than Shinra. Opario 22:01, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  10. Yevon reminds me of the Catholic Church, with its hierarical structure and all that...Besides that, do you know any religion that does weird sphere-things with their hands? Chocolancer 22:33, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  11. Yevon's misguided, Shinra's evil.Armageddon11(DANIELSJ14) 23:40, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
  12. No way is Yevon going to win this, but I'm voting for it anyway. Religion is the scariest thing in the world. --Zephyrus11 13:29, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
  13. As a church, it auto-wins in evilry against a "simple" corporation. As previous voter said, religion is the scariest thing in the world. And there's the Hymn. And without Yevon, there would be no Yuna. -Alarielle- 16:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
  14. Two FFVII vs. FFX fights in a row! I'm honestly torn between the two. They're both so evil! I guess the selling point for me is that everybody in Midgar and the Planet KNOWS that Shin-ra is an evil organization, while everybody in Spira (except for the Al Bhed) believes that the institution of Yevon protects its followers from Sin. In fact, the creator of Yevon (Yu Yevon) manipulates Sin, and has been killing off people for a thousand years! He does all of this just to make people obey his religion, and Spirans (or Spirians?) don't even know they're being bamboozled. Violetmage 18:58, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
  15. Soren 4ever 22:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)They are both very evil organizations and very good antagonists in their respective games. But organized religion is slightly more evil than a mega-Corporation; but only a little. Plus Seymour is better than Rufus IMO.
  16. No78 Big evil religion wouldn't allow Shinra to exist, for it uses forbidden machina... In a one on one fight (if that's even possible), I guess... It's impossible to know really. Sephiroth VS Sin. Bleh.
  17. BrodyGunner Evil religions>evil corporations. Not a fact, but an opinion I fully support. So yeah, Yevon gets my vote.
  18. Cheat2win 19:49, 28 March 2009 (UTC) Praise be to Yevon.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

My apologies about the lateness of the update. When I checked the wikia yesterday it was not exactly working magnificently. Enjoy (and of course remember the rules). T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Why lately there are so many fights between FFX things and other things? And please, anonymous voters, sign up or your votes will be removed :/ Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 10:26, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

There are waaay more fights involving VII, and we've shaken a stick at the anons enough to assume any that still break the rule are stupid. //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 13:12, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
It cannot be helped, there are... four games, a movie, a ova, unknown number of novels... I don't like this spam, but that is what we have. But FFX is only one (don't consider X-2 even a FF, please). However, there are more games than VII and X. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 13:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
You have officially forced me to say it, and you can hate me all you wish. FINAL FANTASY X-2 WAS A GREAT GAME. It got me into the series, had a good battle system where you could pull of fun things, and had plenty of hours of content, even if it wasn't part of the main story. Speaking of which, if you want to show the end of it to your friend, it only takes two hours to get there. //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 13:55, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
FFX-2, except the battle system, is pure fail. Facepalming plot, facepalming characters, facepalming job system... It's a fucking game for easy-make money from the franchise name and the fucking fapers. Squenix, gimme my 60€ back. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 15:07, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Short and sweet plot, returning favorites, interesting new job system... and I bought it before any other Final Fantasy. Totally worth my US$40. //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 15:52, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, very short. So short that like you said, can be completed in a single day. In four days I completed it at 90%. One week and 100%. FFVIII took me three months in the last play. Sweet plot? What plot? I didn't saw anything like a plot in that game. Interesting new job system? It's a faperization of FFV job system. FFXI has a true job system. I'm tired of spending time in that game, even talking about it. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 16:15, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
You didn't see a plot? Where were you looking? (Because it wasn't the TV.) //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 16:42, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
I was being ironic. There are none. Only crap. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 16:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Crap is Final Fantasy XI being available only after a monthly fee is paid. As far as I'm concerned, the game between X and XII is X-2. //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 17:06, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
As far as I'm concerned, there are no FF after IX. But hey, X-2 is like a "Barbie-dress-me" game with guns. What the heck is that? Zak Undersn 17:12, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
As far as I'm concerned, all two-digit FF can't be called FF. Yeah, FFXI it's very expensive, but at least it's a good MMO and is more FF than the others two-digit FF. X-2 it's expensive too, and it's made of pure shit & fail. To Zak Undersn's question (What the heck is that?). Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 17:15, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
As I said, hate me for it all you wish, but I genuinely enjoyed FINAL FANTASY X-2. Others here did, too; they just don't say so off of their user pages. //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 17:44, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
I liked the battle system too, but a game is not only that. With only one good thing, a game became a epic fail. However, if you love it so much, buy me my X-2, I don't want it. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 20:13, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Which version do you have? I've been looking for International + Last Mission. //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 20:17, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
I was being ironic again. It's the PAL version. And let's stop filling the peanut with chatting. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 20:20, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Another good quetion to ask: Why do so many people consider SOLDIER far supierior to anything else in the series? SOLDIER may have had Cloud and G and S, but otherwise the only "good" SOLDIER was Zack, who wasn't even a big part of SOLDIER until hus side-games. Anyone have a good answer to this?--Gerdat14 12:13, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean "good" SOLDIER? I'm prety sure Sephiroth was supposed to be the "best" SOLDIER and constantly proved that by pwning anything he touched because of Jenova.(Isn't that what we were talking about last week?) - Ninja of Wind Ninja of Wind2.png- 12:23, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
That was part of his point. There were four decent SOLDIERs, only two of which were "good." If Sephiroth and Genesis are in Place A, you can do whatever the hell you want in Place B. Noöne else in SOLDIER is going to stop you. //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 13:12, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
I think he means that Zack is the only legal 1st Class (the only one who deserve his rank by his own rights, not by what he is), Sephiroth, Angeal and Genesis were experiments (demi-humans), and Cloud never became 1st (he was 3rd, right?). And, by the way, the really far superior to anything else in the series are obviously the Cactuars ù_ú Joking apart, I consider SOLDIER at FFVIII's SEEDs same level (and probably SEEDs are better than non-Jenova-Project SOLDIERs in power). Also, the Turks have more charisma than SOLDIER. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 13:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
I like SOLDIER's uniforms. And SOLDIER's helmets. And hey, don't talk about Crisis Core bullshit, Genesis made me burn in rage. SOLDIER (enemies) during FFVII were cool (and you always could steal useful things from them). In fact, the coolest were the 3rd class ones, they had level-2 magic. The others had Sword of Doom, a not-so-cool version of Braver that I always liked. Also, thinking about it, an Elite-Soldier organization under the orders of an Electric Company is so freaking cool I'm gonna die. Zak Undersn 15:16, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Personaly, other aspects of of the classic 8/16-bit FFs are overlooked. SOLDIER is indeed over hyped nowadays. It's good, but would it really be Superior to people who are fortified powers by Gods in crystalline form?(ala FF1,3, 50). I also think of SeeD on the same if not a bit high than SOLIDER. Junction as proven in the game can make people MANY times better than regular training could do and it's easier to use. AnonyMan 18:15, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, you're right, but don't get out of the context of the game. There are no almighty Fiends who can grant time-paradox-insane-powers to a fallen knight who kidnapped the daughter of a king. Anyway, the "I'm all powerful because a demon gave me some powers in exchange for my soul/mind/heart/virginity/whatever" is a bit overused, and I'm not talking about FF only. Also, what I like about SOLDIER is the concept: an army of genetic-improved men that have been infused with the very juice of the Planet and not only that: they fight with swords (pretty big&baddass as of original FFVII (well, they were grey cones, but if you look them like this they look kinda cool), then at Crisis Core they got that lame swordy) and are able to beat people armed with guns without major problems. The almightyness is not a new thing, I mean, you're fucking badass and you can erase people's existence, but there's no originality in that (nor in SOLDIER, if you think about it). Maybe the SOLDIER thing should had been more developed. Zak Undersn 20:37, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Can people have lengthy discussions about DNC battles on their own usertalk pages, please? I can see quick comments being here, but when the conversation gets to about 6 colons.... perhaps you would like to have a more localized chat. 8bit 20:39, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Do not forget Deep-Ground, with it's Colored Tsviets and Restrictors. Ah, and a stupid question: How can I sign up my votes?

Simply write ~ ~ ~ ~ without spaces. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 16:32, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Finishing up something from last time: Yeah, I like to complain. It just happens. And yeah, I will agree that game developers hide quality with graphics. NOT talking about FFX, more like XII or Halo. Graphics are a useful aesthetic enhancement, but they should not be viewed as the make-or-break feature of the game, and too many people do that.
Right then. I said I had an alternate viewpoint to present: I think the Church of Yevon is a largely incompetent organization. At the same time, Shinra isn't necessarily the "baddest of the bad." Had its opponent been the Glabados Church from FFT, well, they have the Knights Templar, and can get the whole kingdom after you with 4 words: "He is a heretic." They could bring a lot more power to bear than Yevon, and they didn't fall out of power & hide in a hole when their big trump card & their high priest were lost. No, they burned a guy at the stake to keep their secret, & ruled for hundreds more years. In that case, screw FFVII, they would've gotten my vote.
But, at the same time, people are underestimating Yevon. It isn't JUST monks with flamethrowers and Seymour. Factoring in the entities behind the church, you have Yunalesca and all of the powerful fiends that she has at her disposal, Yu Yevon with Sin, and even Evrae is worth considerable mention. They had vast catacombs of dungeons filled with powerful fiends and ancient secrets, including a weapon that could destroy all of Spira in one shot, as well as a psychological hold on their victims that Shinra could never have. Were there a hundred terrorist elements after Yevon? No, there were not. Now, in a way, that makes them less impressive, at least from my persepective, but I'm just trying to inspire people to look at it differently.
"Finishing" to this sentence is my commentary, I simply split it up for better readability.Neo Bahamut 21:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Great googly moogly Shinra's winning REALLY bad is there a mercy rule for this? Osf 01:27, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't give a shit what anybody else says, Palmer was AWESOME. He was fat, took lard in his tea, did a little tap dance in battle, got hit by a truck & didn't need to take a week off, unlike those pussies Tseng & Reno of the Turks, ran the space program (OUTER-FRICKEN'SPACE, PEOPLE! C'MON, THAT'S AWESOME!) & didn't start with monkies, he had a gun that shot magic spells, and to top it all off, he was in the same room when Sephiroth killed the President, & Sephiroth let him live, so apparently, even SEPHIROTH likes him!Neo Bahamut 15:37, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Yevon isn't actually a religion because it rules by fear rather than "faith." It exist because of something that is tangible rather than supernatural. They simply ruled like a religion. As such Shinra wins because it promotes advancement (like the space program) rather than backwardness. AJ Werefang 22:04, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Week 111: Jenova v. Sin[edit source]

Jenova's casing-AC.jpg
DNC Versus.png
Sin.jpg
WINNER!
J-E-N-O-V-A
53 ½ to 36
Things are common enemies in Final Fantasy, and by that I mean stuff that really doesn't have good words to describe it. So which will it be, malignant parasite from space, bent on domination of a foreign planet, or the recurrent whale of humanity's reset, embodiment of exactly what it is labeled?
Jenova's casing-AC.jpg

Votes for Jenova[edit source]

  1. BlueHighwind : Jenova serves no cockroach.
  2. A vote for the true villain of Final Fantasy VII. Drake Clawfang
  3. ScatheMote 00:08, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  4. Sin is a shell created by Yu Yevon. While the beast is fearsom, there is no character to be had. Sin and the Aeon that constitutes the shell are only puppets to a dead-whim. Jenova is a living being with a twisted bloodlust that not even thousands of years of ice could contain. She started Sephiroth's twisted campaign, and technically she was the one who killed Aerith. She is the black maiden and fell mother. ClixPsi
  5. I go with Mother, I mean Jenova.NeoBahamutZEROX 00:59, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  6. Like I'm going to let FFX beat out FFVII. Besides, Jenova was the reason that Sephiroth was ultimate and almost got to god if a team of "heros" had not cut his life short. Ninja of Wind
  7. The sole reason everything went to hell in FF7. Oh, and anything that can kick my ass while decapitated gets a vote from me. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 01:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  8. Sin may be eternal, but Jenova was fused with the planet itself! Now that's mean! - Henryacores^ 01:59, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  9. Jenova can still cause chaos, even after she's killed. Plus, her kids are cute. BlueLionheart Cloudy Wolf.jpg (T/C) 02:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  10. Jenova's more famous. And I don't know Sin to prove it! Kuzlalala 06:18, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  11. Sora G. Strife 07:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  12. ChaosEsperVII I vote for the shining example of perfect evolution. And yea, the Sin voters must've not played VII. Someone said that Sin has been killing for 1000 years. Jenova can lay dormant for a thousand years so she's older than Sin by a longshot. Plus she destroys entire planets. The Northern crater was caused when she used the shell of a PLANET as her pseudo-spaceship and crashed it into Cloud's so she can have her way with tits inhabitants. I'm sorry, but if you can use a damn planet to bash another planet, you are badass. Plus she can take traits from other living things and infect them with her own which basically means that if she ever met SIN, she would steal all of its power and then use it as her own puppet. In short, Jenova is all powerful. And just because she has no motive for destruction (she's a damn virus for christ's sake) doesn't mean she's badly designed. She's just good at what she does. ALso she has only one line in the entire series and its a putdown. So in essence, JENOVA is just another word for ROXXOR.
  13. Definately Jenova. She is one of the most awesome already dead villains ever!- Sencilia
  14. Rocking Chair: Sin was good but Jenova was the twisted, insane monster behind Sephiroth
  15. JENOVA wiped out the Cetra, is behind Sephiroth's actions, controlled the Reunion (plus she has an awesome theme) and is the representation of pure Evil. Sin was great too, but Jenova is simply Jenova! NeoSeth 10:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  16. GenjiMasamune Okay, this one's tough. I've always loved Jenova, but I've been playing through 10 and it's awesome! Still, the Jenova fights always gave me a lot more of a challenge than the battles with Sin, Jenova walked around with no head (which in turn instigated Barret's funny line), she wiped out an entire race, and without her there would be no Cloud, Angeal, Zack, Genesis, and most importantly, no Sephiroth. Besides, her name is supposed to mean "new god." That's just bitchin' in my book.
  17. She's called 'the calamity from the skies', thats cool, plus she had a kickass theme song BritBoy 15:19, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  18. She was a sidekick for a boy that only existed to be a daydream for fangirls (Yes, I like VII). Beats Sin anytime.
  19. Jenova's witness votes for Jenova.
  20. User:Nakamura hiro Although I really love FF10, Jenova is much cooler, and FF7 is probably one of the best FF's
  21. User:SOLDIER1stJ Jenova rocks!!!
  22. Osf Yeah...
  23. Lolcakes She has a momma's boy.
  24. Jenova BIRTH, LIFE and DEATH were the most epic creatures before WEAPONS entered, and it's always fun to get wiped out with a single Aqualung. SYNTHESIS was a bit of a punchbag, but in overall Jenova is one of the most memorable creatures in the FF series. And the theme music J-E-N-O-V-A still chills my spine.Vohaul86
  25. Phoebe Hume Of course I vote for Mother... absolutely :D
  26. Lockhart - Gotta vote for Sephy's momma.
  27. Vampyro entertaiment 14:42, 18 March 2009 (UTC) MOTHER!!!!!!
  28. The Calamity from the Skies owns you. J-E-N-O-V-A, epic theme for our sweet Calamity. Karu
  29. Seriously, how can you people compare the glorious Jenova with... that thing? I'll not speak ill of Sin, sadly it's the best thing from FFX, but... to compare it with Jenova... She's infinitely better. She's the most fucking awesome thing in FFVII (and in many games, not only FF), sorry for the Mama's boy-tards. She is the real axis from the plot. She exterminated the Cetra. She's the reason because WEAPONs exist. Everything that she touch, it becomes a monster and a part of her. She took Sephiroth and use him to reincarnate, for later use her old body as a living weapon. In summary, she is the Calamity from the Skies. And her theme is the most fucking awesome from FFVII (and all FFVII themes >>∞>> FFX themes). BTW, why all Sin's voters looks like they don't have played (or read the plot while playing) FFVII? To say that she don't have relevance in the plot... or she's a puppet of Sephiroth... FFVII IS Jenova. Rai Balmung, the Gargoyle.
  30. Neosamuel Sephiroth told me to vote for his Mother or else...
  31. Both are awesome, but I like Jenova better. Metus 19:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  32. FallenAngelOfYaoiHer theme is awesome, her kids are cute, and because of her, I call the Northern Crater Big Momma's House.
  33. Ah, finally a match I'm interested in seeing the outcome to! Both are essentially mindless, instinct-driven beasts of incredible organic malleability. That said, I'm going to look at this as though it were an actual fight. Sin's control of gravity magic is epic, and it tends to make itself more of a problem. However, if the 2 ever met, the logical outcome is that Jenova would win. It is not an aeon, so it cannot be possessed by Yu Yevon. Sin is basically MADE of the stuff that Jenova evolved to attack. And, finally, Sin was destroyed, and its threat ended. Even catatonic, Jenova remains a threat--and, quite frankly, it was always more of a threat--Sin roamed around for hundreds of years just destroying big cities. Jenova's purposes is to destroy a planet, then move on to others. Although Jenova is less physically impressive, it wins this hands down.Neo Bahamut 00:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
  34. Munk451 Simple, Jenova is awesome.
  35. Crap, this is probably the toughest one I've voted in yet. Jenova's awesome and all, but come on. Sin remains motionless is one of my favorite battle lines in any RPG ever. And then there's the Sin Sleeps cutscene. But.. Jenova gets my vote, because Jenova Absolute is an amazing song, and it's thanks to Jenova that someone was able to pull off the line "Out of my way, I'm going to see my mother" and make it sound badass. That shouldn't be possible.Dazuro 17:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
  36. everything about jenova was already been said... Onionknight23
  37. Clyde Arrowny J-E-N-O-V-A!
  38. I feel sorry for Sin, but I prefer J-E-N-O-V-A. She is one of the two main characters in FFVII (the other being Zack). --- User: Zak Undersn --- 20:41, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
  39. I hate Sin, see my userpage for details. User:Last tsurugi
  40. Sin is stupid. Jenova rocks.
  41. Sin is good, but Jenova is better. 1stclasswarrior 22:42, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
  42. No78Sin may be incredibly powerful and capable of reincarnating, but if you think about it, that's technically Yu Yuvon, not Sin. Also, Jenova is a goddess. Right? Back in her days of riding planets as vessels, Sin would've been nothing more than a fly to her :P
  43. Simply because of J-E-N-O-V-A. And that image is rather... disturbing. Not that a giant levitating whale with dragonfly wings isn't, but that Jenova mask kind of gives me the shivers. Plus she has a cool epithet. 8bit 02:52, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
  44. ArableLadle : Jenove is sexier xD No realy she has better story than Sin
  45. Acid Snake : Jenova has a more interesting back story and her research created enhanced soldiers.
  46. Woot, FFVII! Soldier of Light
  47. Far more powerful, Jenova gets my vote Elypsis 01:12, 23 March 2009(UTC)
  48. Jenova has my vote.--StragusLore 03:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
  49. The fact that Jenova isn't really ALIVE and is the actual form of the villain and Sin is only armour for Yu Yevon, and that Jenova has sooooo much power and kill sooooo many people in a 'dead' form, SHE OBTAINS MY VOTE. *Cloud Strife
  50. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. 80.33.35.222 09:26, 17 March 2009 (UTC) Jenova doesn't have a backstory that involves a bug controlling super-powerful magic beings.
  2. 173.77.80.13318:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC) Jenova is better, bottomline.
  3. 75.181.21.7 21:30, 18 March 2009 (UTC)- Jenova didn't make me kill my summons.
  4. 209.244.187.208 22:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC) Okay, this is a tough one, but I have to say Jenova. Jenova's a calamity that's caused horrible deeds, but Sin is... well, a person who sacrifices himself/herself to give Spira a chance for peace, even though it's temporary. I honostly believe that Jenova is more evil. I'm not voting on who is more villianous, just on who is more interesting.
  5. 89.130.129.81 08:24, 20 March 2009 (UTC) Sin rox, but Jenova is made of pure awesome
  6. 87.80.197.171 22:03, 22 March 2009 (UTC) 1: It's theme is incredibly cool. And 2: "Where's its %$@#'ing head?!" XD
  7. 67.193.231.184 01:36, 23 March 2009 (UTC) I haven't played FF10 yet, but unless injection with Sin's cells grants one superhuman awesomeness and the inability to die, it won't get my vote.

Jenovas name is way cooler! Its a fusion of Jehova (God) and Nova (New) meaning: A New God! O_o & SIN is just a sin ~_~, A new god beats a regular old sin anyday! :D

Votes for Sin[edit source]

  1. There is beauty in a cycle of death for a lost purpose, and the many stories unfolded within it. //masterConjurer (Talk) 00:29, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  2. This is a toughie, but Sin edges it by a Whale's Whisker. (see what I did there?) Jeppo 01:05, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  3. User:Genesis rhapsodos: This is a really hard decision for me, but I chose to look at it this way. Jenova definitely felt defeatable, I mean you had an epic battle with Jenova and technically she was the cause of all said events in FFVII. However starting from the point that you attack Sin's left fin, all the way to get to Yu Yevon, that's you killing Sin. Every boss fight and battle within, think about it that way and it's like damn Sin was one hell of a monster.
  4. Hyacynth: Where Jenova is more or less everything that drives me crazy about Japanese sci-fi, Sin is more of a nod to the kaijuu genre, and I'm always down for that.
  5. It reminds me of the Cloverfield monster. Or vise versa. Know what that means? Lots and lots of death. >:3 —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|03:37, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  6. Jenova is a mindless monster of destruction. Sin is...a mindless monster of destruction, both suck. Difference is there's more surrounding Sin than just wanton destruction for no reason which is Jenova to a T. Sin's also not the ingredient for one of the worst characters in video games. AnonyMan 09:06, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  7. Can Jenova eat you and send you to another reality? Leon5550 10:26, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  8. Because yes CookiePinguy 13:09, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  9. Sin is epic, Jenova is not and I like epicness Phade Paradox 16:19, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  10. Sin > Jenova Tornadium
  11. Oh come on people, Jenova is a puppet controled by Sephiroth, Sin is a whale that can WALK and has been blowing everything up for 1000 years, Jenova's killing spree didint last very long, did it. Besides, Braskas Final Aeon is the real main boss of FFX, so that makes sin it too.___Armageddon11(DANIELSJ14) 17:37, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  12. Sin is the end result of a twisted ruler's final plan for immortality and revenge, both of which he gets. So what he goes a little nuts after a few centuries? Jenova just started crazy.--Muchomas35 20:17, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  13. Even tho he's a videogame character,Sin's got a deep significance.KimahriRonso
  14. Mmm...this one's hard. I think both Sin and Jenova kick ass, but I'm gonna have to cast my vote to Sin. I mean Yu Yevon (who manipulates Sin) is the lamest villian and the WORST final boss, but he got all of Spira to worship his religion, even though he is using Sin to kill people off like flies. That is pretty freaking hard core and evil, if you ask me. The fact that Jenova.SYNTHESIS looks like a boob kinda freaks me out, and since Sin looks like a whale, it makes me smile :D. Oh, and I'm also gonna cosplay a cute version of Sin at the next con I'm going to. Violetmage
  15. Hard choice, but Sin is so badass that it use its killer to create its new body and continue its rampage. It's amazing. Viewtiful Vitor 06:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  16. Sin has more of a story the Jenova Mr_Darkside 06:56, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  17. This is kinda tough. Jenova is certainly creepier, but Sin is SIN! He's freaking huge, he reincarnates every time he dies. He affects the entire population of Spira for thousands of years, while Jenova only endangers it once or twice during Clouds's lifetime. --Zephyrus11 14:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  18. Heretic Ramza-- I vote Sin because its devestation was much worst, its true identity had an emotional connection with FFX's hero, and it was so powerful that it could only be fought from the inside. Jenova needed Sephiroth (or was easily manipulated by him...depending how you look at it) to wreak the little havoc within the storyline that she did.
  19. How many bosses do you know that can swim, fly, walk and manipulate gravity? And it doesn't hurt that Sin has a connection with almost every living thing in Spira. Judge Balthier 15:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  20. Because I think a strong armor is a better explanation than an ET that came to kill everyone for no reason. And to balance the votes as much as I can. -Alarielle- 19:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  21. Who needs the sad little alien woman when you have Sin :D - Copycatloki 19:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  22. Spiral of Death >>> Reunion Theory Chocolancer 19:46, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  23. Sin is a little bit more deeper than your cliche evil alien that wants to destroy everything Trio1000 17:32, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
  24. Summonerluna-- This is quite tough as they both speak highly to the history of their respective worlds, and both are dependent upon a human (Jenova may have succeeded as a force of nature before, but it was Shinra and Sephiroth, after all, who allowed her will to resurface), but my vote must be for Sin. Jenova speaks more to natural history and a certain political sect, but Sin is a statement of not just the history, but the culture, and influence of Spira spanning centuries.
  25. I liked the scene where Sin destroys Kilika. That and Op Mi'hen. those were pretty kickass moments. AtmaCrisis 08:12, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
  26. Have to vote for sin for the obvious religous reference and the overwhelming simularity to Leviathan.--Gerdat14 11:34, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
  27. Sin FTW! he has minions (PLURAL, not just Sephiroth.) He sends his flesh to fight too, Jenova can't do that! Besides you also go inside this leviathan. you dont go in jenova (you'd probably catch some alien STD anyway) And he manipulates gravity and space! what can that whore do> Blow bubbles and breath fire? BORING! not to mention, Sin has an Overdrive. What's Jenova got W-Lazer, Agualung, Beta, and Trine. THAT"S FREAING IT! and to top it all off. the whole fight against the aeons thing was a lot harder than that pussy Sephiroth. Derum
  28. Rydiaofmist: This is really close for me as I love them both. Sin is epically huge, while Jenova is mysteriously creepy. However, since Sin is so inextricably linked to the people and world of Spira, to me it had more of lasting presence in X than Jenova had in VII.
  29. I thought Sin was to easy in the fights and Jenova's theme is better!!!- DarkShuyin
  30. Sin has a larger role in the storyline then dying and pretending to be someones mom to make them do the dirty work for you. Plus, the manipulative witch from another planet thing has been reused to much, a giant flying whale made of dead people with the power to destory anything he wants with near-invincibility, thats what i call unique. Gyromite 04:09, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
  31. SeKaLoYa 09:44, 21 March 2009 (UTC) I love that attack during the battle with the Chocobo Knights where Sin shoots that beam of light and everything dissolves and fades away XD
  32. Its gotta be Sin. He's more active and destructive, and he is reborn all the time. He looks awesome and cannot be beaten from the outside. He's just plain awesome!-Ice Master
  33. Seriously i gotta say Sin. I mean since i am currently playing through Final Fantasy X and it is like my 2nd fav FF... and come on Jenova? Jenova plays real neat into FF7's story and all, but it is also the reason Sephiroth is a mama's boy! And, off the fight, FFX has Yuna so anything FFX is AWESOME! ff7 has.... Mama's Boy Wussy Whiner Man. Go SIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Leonhart178 01:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
  34. Mr. Rojo: I think both are awesome, it`s a really tough decision. Anyway although i think Jenova would win over Sin, his powers and symbolism are great. And also Sin is losing.
  35. EMO of LiGHT: Ok, my very first post here. I think that the very embodiment of all the worlds detestable acts has an edge over an alien, it even managed to keep the world in stagnation for a thousand years, while Jenova just sat in a crater forever, waiting for her cells to be implanted in a kid.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. 78.144.228.240 20:06, 17 March 2009 (UTC) Jenova's body parts create monsters, right? well Sin's scales, essentially shreds of it's skin, create some pretty big beasties, that's just one of the reasons Sin is more kickass than Jenova. secondly the religious backstory behind Sin's creation and the fact it actively terrorises an entire world for 1000 years is impressive, Jenova is just some trumped up alien.
  2. 69.149.215.209 Sin, 'cause c'mon, Summoned Monsters are much better than Creepy-Alien-Witch-Ladies.

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

I only joined recently, so I'm still very new to this all. However, I've noticed that many of the annonymous votes tend to get deleted before the final tally is made. Does someone just delete them or are they conside invalid? ClixPsi

For an anonymous vote to count, its owner must sign his or her IP address to it. Most do not, from either stubbornness or stupidity. (One can rarely tell.) //masterConjurer (Talk) 00:42, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Why did the numbering start over on the user votes? Can someone fix that so it doesn't become a problem later? Ninja of Wind

Kupuntu forgot to put a # before his/her post. This is where reading instructions helps. //masterConjurer (Talk) 21:04, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Actually, he put the # back, I just accidentally deleted it instead of deleting the whole vote (wrong voting section). Let's wipe the slate clean prematurely so people will actually notice, yes? 8bit 21:16, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
In my opinion we should try to fix the problem votes and tell the users to do it correctly before we go on a deleting spree. //masterConjurer (Talk) 22:06, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

BlueHighwind made the most amazing point ever Osf 18:46, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

What cockroach? Where? The only thing I can see that is close to as ugly as a cockroach here is that picture of Jenova. //masterConjurer (Talk) 00:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Ya, srsly. Can we get an actual picture of Jenova instead of the Jenova Doll? - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

--Gerdat14 14:43, 18 March 2009 (UTC) New Jenova pic added. Damn I suck.

I'm beginning to think people are making bogus user profiles even though its none of my business. BTW that jenova pick is gross please use the jenova doll. Judge Balthier 15:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
That image very much makes me wish to throw up. I meant that Jenova is ugly. Just Jenova. Not a specific picture. The new image doesn't help the case against me in the least. //masterConjurer (Talk) 16:09, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Beware: Changing the image will probably invoke the wrath of TA. ScatheMote 16:19, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Luckily, I've never been that dumb. (I may have had close calls...) //masterConjurer (Talk) 16:24, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
One month ago, i was looking at jenova's profile. While i was scrolling down i seen that image that i'll never forget. The image of her HEADLESS BODY!!! I've seen that image before when i was a child. That's another reason why i will never play FFVII. Judge Balthier 18:00, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

--Gerdat14 19:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC) In response to Rai's Comment, the term you should have used is MOST, and can you think of a reason that Jenova wanted to destroy the world? Don't try to say the "Impure" clause, because SIN has already won that in the sense that he is a biblical diety. Oh, and TA should really start to want to find me and speak with me soon due to all the VANDELISM i've created on the enemy pages.

I can't find this "Rai" person, but the basic idea is that Jenova is sort of a virus for planets. It has no "higher reason," Sephiroth has the higher reason, which is why HE'S the villain. Jenova is purely instinctual, and really, so was Sin. The more complex motivations it has belong (or, should I say, "belonged") to Yu Yevon.
-I suppose that Rai it's me. Sorry if I used wrong terms, I'm not english speaker (I'm Spanish), and probably made (and will make) more mistakes like that. And there's no reason about Jenova's thirst of destruction. She live for that. She IS destruction. ChaosEsperVII's vote explains it very well. By Rai Balmung

On an unrelated note, I'm sort of disappointed that this isn't closer. I like some of the reasonings given, and would have liked to see more of a defense put up for Sin.Neo Bahamut 02:46, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Jenova is a brain-dead puppet. She/it isn't a character in the story, but a plot-device.

-So I guess Sin is not a brain-dead puppet? Do you remember who was the one being controlled by a tumorous cockroach? --- User: Zak Undersn --- 01:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
-Are you sure about Jenova is a brain-dead puppet? Because is evident that Jenova is not a brain-dead puppet. She found in her "son" a more useful container than her old, frozen and damaged body (remember, she fought and extermined the entire Cetra race, and only the five WEAPONs together could stop her, and even not kill her, only trap her in the North Crater). In that event in Shinra Manor, Jenova used Sephiroth to reincarnate. The FFVII Sephiroth is not only him, it's Jenova too. All that Sephiroth did was only Jenova's will. She corrupted his mind, to transform him into her puppet and share his body and his live. I hate that abuse about FFVII, but why do you think that Sephiroth can return again and again? Because he's Jenova now. Her old body? Someone like her probably think about it like just a powerful but dispensable living-weapon. I've read that Jenova is a extension of Sephiroth... *facepalm* Reversed. [<-I was wrong at that] I like Sin, but like all FF with two numbers, the game fail. They are good RPGs, but... Sin is the best thing in the plot, without possible discussion, but it can't be compared with the Calamity of the Skies. Sorry about my poor english. By Rai Balmung

Do not compare Sin with Jenova. Sin had a mind of it's own(Jecht's) and could fight Yu Yevon's influence, a little. Jenova was litterally brain-dead, unaware of everything around her. It was incapable of doing anything on her own, and every word, action, and thought showed by her, was just Sephiroth acting through her body. We can't say that Yu Yevon was Sin. But it's not so absurd to say that Sephiroth was Jenova, during FFVII and AC. They basically merged together.

You know, I have played through FFX an uncountable number of times, and I have still never seen the cockroach people are talking about, and this new talk of a tumor confuses me further. What I can remember is playing FFVII and seeing the most disgusting thing ever, Jenova. My message: Sin and everything related to sin is more aesthetically pleasing than Jenova, so stop talking about ugly things related to Sin. //masterConjurer (Talk) 02:04, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Yu Yevon is the tumorous cockroach. By Rai Balmung

Yeah i know, most of the people here only vote for jenova because she's in FFVII. SHE IS SO CREEPY!!! Judge Balthier 17:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I voted her because I like her and I like creepy things D: Karu

Hey guys...sign your posts! - +DeadlySlashSword+ 15:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I'd prefer to be anonymous....p.s. that was me in the above! Judge Balthier 17:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

With anonymity comes a lack of credit. Simply to prove a point, I claim that I wrote what Judge Balthier just claimed that he wrote. //masterConjurer (Talk) 23:33, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, BH, I guess I got used to not doing the tildes. This is going to be something of a bitchfest, so consider yourself warned. 1: How come, on the FF wiki, there are STILL a bunch of people so ignorant about just what these 2 can do? "Sephiroth is Jenova's minion," and "Jenova can't send her body parts out to fight" keep coming up. Guess what? Neither of them are true! If anything, Jenova's body is moreversatile. It can be reduced to a cluster of cells & still keep going! 2: Master Conjurer, you know exactly what he's talking about. 3: Again, to Master Conjurer, while I did mention Sin's aesthetic superiority, no one's calling Yu Yevon a cockroach because he's ugly. They're calling him that because, well, he looks like an insect! 4: The claim that people are only voting for Jenova because she's in FFVII fill me with rage of the Aztec Variety. How is it ANY different with Sin? What, you think there are not people who've never even tried FFVII, and were just enamored with Sin from the start? Several people have expressed that they like both Sin and Jenova, but simply prefer one to the other. 5: The internet is not serious business. Please do not edit simply to tell me that I'm overreacting--I assure you, I don't have to be angry to start bitching. Do, however, feel free to edit to tell me if I've misinterpreted something that was said, or whatever.Neo Bahamut 02:46, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
I wish to address the parts that were meant for me, numbered appropriately:
2. I do know what they're talking about, and sarcastically claim not to as a way of showing my disagreement.
3. They do think Yu Yevon's ugly in a way. Admit it. You wanted the final boss to be something bigger, cooler-looking, and possibly that could actually hurt you. Instead, FFX puts the little guy after the big guy. That is an ugly tactic in your mind. (I actually enjoyed the break a couple of times.)
I now tire of arguing. I'm going to go mess with a family tree. //masterConjurer (Talk) 03:01, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
And THAT'S why I advised people to edit if they thought I was getting something wrong. I wasn't sure if you were trying to be sarcastic or, for whatever reason, just weren't making the connection. As for "ugly," I think that's twisting the word a bit too much. And no, I did not mind what Yu Yevon was, especially after that prick Braska's Final Aeon. I can understand some peoples' complaints, but they also have to realize that, if everything had a One Winged Angel &/or Crossed the Bishonen Line, it'd get old sooner or later. Quite frankly, Yu Yevon fit in with exactly what they said he was: A mindless entity, devoid of humanity, that existed only to summon. Now, what I DO have a problem with, is that they didn't expand upon him in X-2, and I do have a little WTF as to why he bacame a TICK, in particular....

And, although it's not really important, a few other things I liked about Yu Yevon; His "possessing" form was basically a dark pyrefly, which I thought was cool for some odd reason; That warped Hymn of the Fayth that plays when he emerges; The way he makes you fight the Aeons (this may sound kind of lame, but I actually got at little attached to them); and when you sit back and think that, even with no consciousness left, he was coordinating the actions of hundreds of summons and summoners, that is just awesome.

...Mess with a family tree...?Neo Bahamut 03:19, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

My step-mother sent me an invitation to some family genealogy site. It turned out to be really lame, so I'm back. //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 03:41, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Just to clarify: Yu Yevon looks like a cockroach (a very strange one, that's the why of the tumorous), you see? That's a metaphore. --- User: Zak Undersn --- 13:27, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

As I was telling Neo Bahamut, I understood that and was sarcastically pretending not to in order to show that I disagreed. Also, who put a ç after my time stamp? //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 15:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Personally, I don't get the tumor thing myself. A tumor is ATTACHED to an organism. Yu Yevon floats free. Essentially, Sin is more of a tumor to Yu Yevon, than the other way around, and even that's not saying much. And that's not really a good metaphor. Tumorous has nothing to do with being weird. Frankly, when I saw the phrase "tumorous" (I didn't see the context), I was thinking that one scene where Sinspawn Geneaus is formed in the final battle with Sin. It's pretty much literally a tumor!Neo Bahamut 19:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
A big tumor can deform the thing it is attached to. Yu Yevon is ugly as hell, does it need more explanation? Also, as you said, Sin could be the tumor, but that's not what I was talking about. --- User: Zak Undersn --- 21:11, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Umm....yes, it needs more explanation. Tumors can be internal, and a lot of things can cause deformities. Again: It's a weak metaphor that only makes sense under some really specific, deliberately twisted circumstances.Neo Bahamut 21:27, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Stop with that useless discusion about what is a tumor. It was a fucking metaphor. Yu Yevon it's a ugly black egg with tentacles. End. Even a roach is more cute than him. Rai Balmung
That's taking it just a little far. Roaches don't have cute religious tatoos! //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 04:00, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I like anon vote #6 for Jenova. His/her reasoning is perfect. ChaosEsperVII

I prefer ChaosEsperVII's reasoning for Jenova, and Summonerluna's for Sin.Neo Bahamut 19:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! I second Summonerluna's reasoning as well. This is a great matchup. ChaosEsperVII
I don't do my job for thanks! I do it for the sheer joy of pissing people off on the internet! <_< >_> Speaking of, someone tried to fix "extermine" with "extermined." I think I just LOL'ed. In my pants. ( I fixed it.) One of the more interesting things about Sin was its signature use of gravity magic. Jenova didn't really have anything like that, with the debatable exception of space-themed attacks.Neo Bahamut 20:34, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Yea Jenova was kinda just a generic boss with really powerful attacks. But if you notice, it looks like most bosses from the older games (except for the final bosses) were more and more generic, so with each game Square-Enix improved on the smaller things, and strove to make each boss in later games more unique.ChaosEsperVII
To an extent, I agree with that. Most of the enemies in FFVII were incredibly plain, compared to the characters, and the bosses were typically generic, no neat little tricks like turning people undead, then using full-life on them. It's as though the characters finished evolving from nameless, mindless sprites, and then the monsters realized that they needed to catch up.
On the other hand, I think there was a lot of care taken with Jenova's battle designs, despite its WTF appearance. Its form is vaguely feminine, reflecting how Sephiroth sees it as his mother. It has pseudo-wings, again, reflecting Sephiroth's vision of "her" as a Goddess. Its design is monstrous and malformed, reflecting the chaos of it and Sephiroth's state of mind. Jenova Sythensis, by comparison, is much more well-formed...but only the top half, because of all of the pieces that were turned into previous Jenova monsters. The Ultimania guide even backs up some of my theories on this.Neo Bahamut 00:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

@ whomever voted for Jenova because they like J-E-N-O-V-A: The Otherworld, it hates you. //masterConjurer (Talk)_ 03:33, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I might have voted for Sin based on the sole fact that Otherworld is cool. But AC's version of J-E-N-O-V-A is just more of my kind of music. Faethinverba volant 04:26, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Meh. I prefer the original. Although, I did like the outer-spacey touch that AC's had.

Damnit, Rai, the evidence in the game is AGAINST that theory. Sephiroth was BORN in Nibelheim, if he was going to be corrupted, it would have been then. Not only that, but Jenova’s body becomes and refers to itself AS Sephiroth. Why would Jenova do that, if it was in control? And forgetting the plot elements that would be obvious to anyone with a double-digit IQ, Sephiroth being in control IS OFFICIAL! YOU ARE WRONG.

I already said it, they are the same person. Jenova fused her mind with Sephiroth's in his body. Tell me, how can Sephiroth know about Jenova's cell always come back wherever Jenova's head is? Because Hojo didn't know it, and he wrote all that Sephiroth has read in Shinra Manor o.o He simply knows that, took the head and jumped into the lifestream, leaving the body behind (and let Hojo think that Jenova's cells come back to it). Sephiroth is the body and the thinking part of the mind, and Jenova is the instincts and knowledge (and the fucking living-weapon). "There Sephiroth and Jenova, joined together their wills becoming as one, and sealed himself away in the Northern Crater with his plan to take over the Planet. " <- from Jenova's page. Read well also this. BTW, if you have other theory and you don't know how to discuss without insulting, simply ignore me. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 09:13, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
"[Sephiroth] was not content to become a mere puppet and assumed position of her [Jenova's] mind and will." Taken from the FFVII Ultimania. — YuanSaluto!Acta 09:27, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
What she said. Seriously, don't start that "if you can't say anything nice" crap with me. I'm perfectly reasonable with theories, but when you're trying to argue facts that are OBVIOUSLY WRONG, that's when I tend to get annoyed. Even today, there are still people going, "What are you, nuts? Jenova was in control!" No. No she was not. Pay attention to the game or do 5 minutes of research, and you'd KNOW that. It's willful ignorance, and that's why it pisses me off. Oh, and a little misconception: Hojo knew about the reunion, or at least theorized it. The "Sephiroth clones" were meant to prove it.Neo Bahamut 01:25, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
It's not "if you can't say anything nice", it's "if you can't say anything without insult". Hojo theorized the Reunion (he gave it the name of Jenova Reunion Theory), but as I said, he do it WRONG. He, who was the human with more knowledge about Jenova, believed that the cells will return at the body, and keep it with him in Shinra Building. But surprise, Sephiroth, with his magic powers, knows that the cells come back to the head, nor the body. However, I explained better my theory at the bottom. I'll try to explain myself better from the beginning next time. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 09:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Rai, those statements mean THE SAME THING. I'm alluding to the common term. Honestly, how could you attack my "abstracting mind" if you can't even paraphrase? >_> But enough about my bitchiness, until it comes time to attend to the newest vote for Sin. You stated that Hojo didn't know--you were incorrect. The argument was not about whether or not he know where it would gather--ordinarily, he'd have been right. He just didn't know that Sephiroth would (or could) take it over. Remember, everyone, Hojo included, thought Sephiroth was dead by that point. And, like you said, Hojo's knowledge of how Jenova worked was incomplete. Also (grammar nazi moment) he DOES it wrong.Neo Bahamut 22:40, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

And the metaphor was weak. Deal with it. We have a right to express our opinions, as well. If you don’t have anything intelligent to say, the least you could do is not pull that “I’m the last word" crap. God, people like you are so annoying. >_>

"I'm the last word". Also, sign please, I'd like to know who are the people who have a weak "abstracting mind" and need to blabber about the "weak metaphors" everyone else I know understands and I used for like 4 years without anyone complaining about it was "weak" or if a tumor doesn't necessarily deforms things.
And now About Rai's theory: Jenova gave Sephiroth knowledge and power, Sephiroth took control over Jenova, but the one who started all was Jenova, without her, nothing would have happened. Let me explain what I mean: apparently, Jenova "awakened" on Sephiroth when he saw the monsters in Nibelheim's Mako Reactor (he gone mad in a way a normal person wouldn't, apparently is the key word), but there's no real control from Jenova on him in the game (nor in the movie or the other crap-like games), the only way in that Jenova influenced Sephiroth was giving him the power to manipulate her cells, the knowledge to do that (the Reunion-at-the-head thing that not even Hojo knew), and tricking him in some way to believe that he was the true heir to the planet and this way Sephiroth got mad. But Jenova never took true control of Sephiroth's mind, he was clearly under his own mind; the only part of Jenova's mind that survived on him was the instinct to destroy the life on the Planet and use it to travel through the universe, Sephiroth, above that, had another plan: To become a God by fusing itself with the Lifestream (and Omega, as of Dirge of Cerberus), and maybe with the Lifestreams in other planets, so he would get quasi-infinite power. He also got the knowledge from all over the Lifestream, what gave him unbelievable powers that maybe helped him to not fall under Jenova's mind, or maybe not, maybe his Mako-reinforced body was just able to self-protect from Jenova's infection. To sum up: Jenova made Sephiroth be who he is, but sadly (because I'm a fan of the creepy-alien-being-with-more-tumors-than-yu-yevon), during the events of the game, was never under her own control.
Also, just to throw another theory probably contradicted by FFVII Ultimania or whatever, had anyone thought before that Jenova was not one only being but the "superposition" of many beings? I mean, Sephiroth could be a new Jenova, he had the same target that she had, imagine that it's not the first time it happens, imagine Jenova is just a symbiotic being that attaches to other beings, infuses them with its own instincts and powers and lets the show begin. Then, the infected being, after destroying the planet, would travel to other planet and repeat the cycle. In other words: Sephiroth could be somewhat of a Jenova Cocoon that would do the same that Mommy did and then disappear. But I wouldn't like to give ideas to SqEx about Sephiroth.
Oh, and looks like someone messed with the Anon votes in the Jenova's section. Zak Undersn 11:23, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
I have been signing, first of all. Second of all, I do not have a "weak abstracting mind." Also, evidently, not everyone understood the metaphor. It. Was. Weak. Get over it. A tumor is not defined as a deformation. I pointed out several holes with said metaphor. Why do you feel the need to push this issue?Neo Bahamut 01:25, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
That's it. Maybe this word is more appropiate than control him: manipulate him. I think on them like something similar to christian trinity mistery (or whatever it names in english): they are two "persons", but they are the same person too. They are the same thing. If there are something good in AC, is this: the Remnants follow "Mother's will" an orders, but they born from Sephiroth's living will, and when Kadaj fused with Jenova cells to became her, who appears is Sephiroth. Jenova and Sephiroth are the same thing. I like that of "Jenova Cocoon", my point of view it's very similar. Following that theory, knowing that Jenova is a "alien virus" (probably she took that female like form after assimilating a Cetra), we can consider Sephiroth as a new improved form/evolution of Jenova. If he had succeeded, he would travel to other world and, if that planet people could face him (like Cetra and Jenova), probably he would evolve into a new Calamity of the Skies (Sephiroth 2, or whatever you want to call him) and finally win. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 13:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Interesting theories. It is at least partially contradicted, but no one really knows what "Jenova turned people into monsters" means. Now you're starting to get on the right track, though. The Ultimania even calls Sephiroth an "evolved form of Jenova, you could say." And there is a lot of speculation that Jenova & Sephiroth's relationship, as with that of the Remnants, is meant to refer to the Trinity. Debatable, but certainly possible. "Advent" is a word that typically refers to Jesus, so they might not know much about Christianity, but they obviously do some research.Neo Bahamut 01:25, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

To the Othewrold comment: HA!Neo Bahamut 04:17, 22 March 2009 (UTC) I Have Seen The Light And His Name Is Peanut!!! --Gerdat14 00:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

This is getting a little out of hand now isn't it? Why do people always think to much into things? It's just a match. Jenova is something freakishly creppy and Sin is just a Giant gravity possessing Whale. Judge Balthier 15:33, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

As I told you once before, character analysis. The story is deep. Things have been much tamer since I have left, how are people talking "getting a little out of hand"? Although, I will meet you halfway & say that we really need to learn to be pithier. Reading all of that was a pain.Neo Bahamut 01:25, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

89.240.234.166 16:37, 24 March 2009 (UTC)isn't this supposed to be a weekly thing? has the DNC just been abandoned or something?

The user who updates the DNC hasn't gotten around to it yet, or is too busy. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 21:25, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
The newest Sin vote fills me with rage of the Aztec variety. YES, Jenova could infect Sin. Jenova infects the LIFESTREAM at one point, which has no DNA. This ignorance is interesting, since they claim to have played FFX & FFVII. Which, by the way, is the source of another annoyance: I CANNOT believe they pulled the "Jenova's only winning because it's FFVII!" card. Seriously, what's to stop me from claiming that he only liked X (& therefore Sin) better because of the graphics & voice-overs? Because, unlike this guy, it has occurred to me that someone could play both games, know them pretty well, and not necessarily vote the same way that I do.Neo Bahamut 22:40, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
You love indignations, right? XD but it's true, there are too many FFX fanboys, when it cannot be compared with one-digit FFs in plot, complexity, and mainly in character levels. ZOMG-CUTE-AWESOME-GRAPHICS are killing the games, because they (the creators) are using them for hide the true quality of their creation. And sadly the people didn't see it :/ Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 09:24, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
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