Week 80: Seifer v. Kadaj[edit source]

45.5 to 41
Misc. misguided male youth, go! Long coats, unorthodox swords, and a grudge with the heroes, these two come from two installments of the Final Fantasy franchise that have a true love-hate relationship with the fandom. But in a fight, who can beat who?

Votes for Seifer Almasy[edit source]

  1. Gyromite This, is Seifer, people. The guy killed Odin with a single slash! Kuja and Sephiroths 2-year old child cant match up to that!
  2. Gotta support the guy who killed Odin on this one. --SCM
  3. By far the best temporary character you get (including Beatrix). It's a shame really that he was just that - temporary. Adam Mcduck
  4. Seifer is a Gambler. JudgeZarbi
  5. Seifer is pretty entertaining, even cooler by the games end. He's obviously very strong the fact he's taken on Squall and his cohorts(most of whom happen to be SeeD) and probably other kinds of opposition by himself says somthing. He even survived through the game's story. Nothing can keep him down. --AnonyMan 11:43, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
  6. Dancing Daggers Since Kadaj is little more than Square Enix's lame-ass spinoff money-turning bitch, i've gotta vote for a character who is worthy of being in Final Fantasy.
  7. PietroFF: Seifer is not as good as Sephiroth, but it's been always great. In addition, I hate Kadaj and his goddamn reunion.
  8. Lockhart: Kadaj is a chickenwuss.
  9. He sucks less. Dark Raven
  10. Tex HOWDY!!! 18:01, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
  11. Because Kadaj seems more unsure and incomplete. Sefiers confidence would lead him to victory --Maverick King 18:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
  12. Blykus 18:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
  13. Rihya I'm not really a Seifer fan, but I think Kadaj is way more annoying than him. Plus, thanks to Seifer we have Gilgamesh appearing in FFVIII. Any character connected to Gilgamesh deserves to win!
  14. ChaosEsperVII Yazoo is the best Sephiroth wannabe. Plus Seifer's clothes look way better.
  15. Minato Arisato Even though I always vote for FF7 cast I have to make a expection because Seifer is way better than Sephiroth wannabe and he made that scar to squall in an amazing ff intro
  16. RenzokukenXIV Anyone with a gunblade gets my vote.
  17. Aleria: They're both wicked, but my vote goes to the second FF game I played.
  18. Squallinoa_08: Even though Seifer really annoys me, I support him since he's from FF8. Kadaj is a wannabe.
  19. Henryacores: Seifer is annoying, stupid and arrogant. Kadaj is a momma's boy, stupid and arrogant. I hate momma's boys.
  20. Seymour2012: You fight Seifer, what, three... four times? Seifer has a gunblade.. And doesn't wear skin tight... leather...
  21. Silent Meiousei: I don't realy like advent children...Also I don't like Kadaj, so my vote for Seifer.
  22. Hyacynth: Gee, someone who wails on Squall or a character ripped straight from Lemme think here.
  23. User:KoniraThax: Seifer isn't some emo baby, he's just a confused angry kid with battle scars! And at least he makes sense. Kadaj is just some form of Sephiroth spawn.
  24. User:Ajox: "No Mercy" chicken wuss....
  25. Firebert: Yeah, have to go against the emo from Advent Children on this one.
  26. Yumino
  27. Sjoerd777 Kadaj might be able to become sephiroth, but then again, sephiroth remains a failure, while seifer owned odin. big time.
  28. Terra_Homing He killed Odin. Also Kadaj and the rest of his crew are pathetic. Plus, Seifer can be quite funny sometimes.
  29. BritBoy: Seifer is not effeminate in the least, unlike the Kadaj gang, plus he killed Odin and came up with the great line "Teamwork means staying out of my way", and the Kadaj gang spend all day having long hair, wearing black leather and crying...= EMO!
  30. Pablo: Changed my vote, I prefer Seifer :)
  31. herman1134 Seifer is a real character. Seifer is an indispensable part of FF8. Kadaj is nobody and means nothing. Seriously, why didnt they just put Sephiroth at the beginning of FF7AC? I totally agree with Anonymous comment number 5.
  32. XiaTheFatalWhispher 00:36, 11 August 2008 (UTC) Seifer's just pretty cool, plus I'm not the biggest fan of any FFVII character anyway.
  33. Absynthium Gotta say, I really dislike FFVIII with a passion, but I would take Seifer over Kadaj any day. Sure, he turned into Sephiroth, but he still got killed, didn't he? And Seifer makes an awesome punk in KH2.
  34. Drake1:The only two characters I liked more than Seifer in VIII were Laguna and Edea. Kadaj annoyed me to no end. The guy never shuts up when he's on screen, even when he's fighting.
  35. HLS: Seifer is a "good" traitor, he survived at the end, and there is a great music played when he learns that doesn't become a SeeD.
  36. Shadowjomi: Gunblades rule everything....
  37. Xaht: I never felt Kadaj, Yazoo, and Loz were very... competent villians. Siefer has a gunblade, and gunblades are awesome.
  38. Ultamitestarwar Kadaj was fail, and i like FFVIII so i pick Seifer!
  39. User:The King of the LovelessSeifer is a Waay better fighter than Kadaj. He freeking owned Odin how does Kadaj stand a chance?
  40. Vanishing Star I didn't like Kadaj, I preferred Loz. But, Seifer is pretty awesome and it's cool that you got to control him for a section of the game.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. He calls Zell a "chicken wuss" and brings a comedy twist to an otherwise boring first disc. And Kadaj acts like a child, at least Seifer is trying to be more adult
  2. Let's see, a delusional blond guy, trying to be a "knight" or that other guy. *blinks* Not really a tough choice.
  3. It looks like Seifer is wearing eyeliner in that picture but kadaj is much more of a girl so seifer wins - just.
  4. Kadaj is a pedophile
  5. Kadaj can't win, it's like people going along with enix's plan crushing the life out of the originals, fight on seifer fight on!
  6. Kadaj was just a mush puff compared to Seifer. A man who killed Odin like it was nothing. Kadaj couldn't even figure out Rufus had Jenova's head.
  7. Kadaj is only a third of sephiroth and fractions just annoy me lol. Besides I'm an FF8 supporter so I have to go with Seifer.
  8. I CANNOT stand Kadaj plain and simple... Sure Seifer can be an idiot and a jerk but I like him all the same. Him and Hyperion. Plus at least Seifer doesn't start whining about his mother... ALL THE TIME!
  9. Continuing from the previous comment which greatly amused me: Seifer to Kadaj - Hyperion to a Satyr - bit of Hamlet there for you which is what enix wants all their new games to be like (shakespeare quotes? seriously?)
  10. I can just see this battle coming down to Seifer and Kadaj monologuing at each other. The deciding factor would be that Seifer would get really annoyed at Kadaj's whiny little voice. That, and he cheats ;D
  11. He reversed the Zantetsuken, a move that kills in one hit guaranteed. Kadaj can't even properly complete a reunion, let alone kill Odin.

Votes for Kadaj[edit source]

  1. Kadaj can turn in to Sephiroth, need i say more? GrimMoogle 03:25, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
  2. I think both these guys were good villains and are under-appreciated. That in mind, this is Kadaj's introductory match to the Colosseum. So a congratulatory vote from me. Drake Clawfang
  3. He was a really good villain,too bad he was Advent Children and we didn't get time to hate him like Sephiroth.Zack2222
  4. BlueHighwind: Just consider this my hatred of FFVIII talking, or it might be my love of Blue. But I will vote for Kadaj because he seems to be somewhat intelligent. Seifer, on the other hand, uses such terms as "chicken wuss". And how could I forget: he abandoned Edea! The bastard!
  5. Ultimateria: BH, you have opened my eyes to logic.
  6. Advent Children wasn't half bad, even if I did watch it through Youtube ^^ Kadaj was better than his two "siblings", I'll give him that. He did summon Bahamut SIN, after all. 8bit 15:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
  7. BfD: I'm just one of those weirdos who really liked Kadaj, but then again, I liked Seifer, too.
  8. ChiefKakashi 17:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
  9. 2127 18:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
  10. I liked Kadaj, but his siblings were stupid. His childness is creepy, thats why i like it. I refuse to like Seifer since Knigdom Hearts Shat on him. Zack fair 007
  11. the Dan of action: Kadaj.. dont like either that much.. but I like Seifer even less
  12. Evil laughter is a go! OtOcon^_- 21:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
  13. BlueLionheart: Ahh, my first Colosseum vote, and let it be for my beloved Kadaj. He'd blow Seifer away.
  14. Vito: Kadaj.
  15. Krystal: Kadaj has a lot more going on than Seifer.
  16. Super Sephiroth: I vote for the part of Sephiroth, rather than the bitch of Ultimecia.
  17. SeKaLoYa: Advent Children is the best movie I have ever seen second only to Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
  18. Deadlyslashsword: I'm not really a fan of either, but my vote to goes to Kadaj because he didn't wield a stupid-ass foam club as a weapon in Kingdom Hearts 2. *Glares at Seifer*
  19. VN: Cos he has a girlish face and acts like a wuss. LOL. Seifer is too ego. I never like him.
  20. Conjurer: Seifer's weapon is wielded by Kadaj's goons. I think that shows who's above the other.
  21. A-Man968: Kadaj can move a lot faster, and even though he can sometimes look a bit stupid, he fights well and can turn into sephiroth. And anything to do with sephiroth is usually a good thing, unless you're Cloud Strife.
  22. RedMage: The two blades on his sword would mean that anything he stabs dies instantly (in truth). Also, he has a damn cool bike.
  23. ArableLadle: Combination of childish and violent is realy, REALY bad
  24. Shadowolf: It's the personalities. Kadaj is more like an insane, violent child in a more grown up body; Seifer's an abuser of power. And he sucked in Kingdom Hearts II.
  25. Rydiaofmist: I didn't really care for Kadaj, but I despised Seifer. I would vote for pretty much any character over Seifer.
  26. Sora G. Strife 09:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC) He's good enough for me.
  27. In AC, Sephiroth got chopped to pieces, but Kadaj is the one that died from it, so I pity him.Fuzzy McTeddyfluff 17:04, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
  28. YuanchosaanSalutations! 05:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
  29. Draga I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but I'm going for Kadaj. Everyone knows how destructive an angry, pissed off child can be. Plus, he has a katana. Katanas are just good.
  30. The Gunblade sucks. Plus I never played FF8. Besides, Kadaj is to pathetic to hate. OwlEye 04:39, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
  31. Rocking Chair Seifer sucked. He sucked in Final Fantasy VII and he sucked even more in Kingdom Hearts II. Someone as gay as Seifer should be sent to the end of the Earth with the Backstreet Boys and a T.V with a marathon of The Suite Life Of Zack and Cody rerunning 10:04 pm 12 August 2008 EST
  32. ChocoboRider Didn't like FFVIII very much.
  33. Just because. And the sword he uses is cool.--Muchomas35 20:53, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
  34. Alec Frost If it actually came down to it, Kadaj would wipe the floor with Seifer, i mean sure his gunblade is kinda cool (Not as cool as Squall's) And congrats you have a scar on your face. Kadaj is a physical manifestation of Sephiroth, come onnnnn
  35. AvaGirl10Roses: There are no words to describe my reason for this vote. ;]
  36. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L : So I can call it a tie.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Never played FF8 so I pick kadaj
  2. People say Tidus is whiny, but is think Seifer is WAY more like a child. Heck, I even like FF8 - all of it, except for Seifer (oh, and the later Triple Triad rules lol).
  3. Kadaj had the much better voice actor. All Hail Steve Staley: Neji, Fayt, Kadaj, and all manner of awesome characters.
  4. Kadaj is teh smex.
  5. Kadaj looks cooler than Seifer.
  6. Havent played ff8 so i vote kadaj, even though hes girly....and whiny... <(^_^)>
  7. Kadaj is cooler =).......thanks to Sephiroth x3<33 Sephiroth´s awsome! xD<33
  8. I want Kadaj's babies because he's smexy. . . and I'm a guy ^_^
  9. He looks so much better then Seifer, and I just plain old like him more!
  10. Silver hair!!! & Seifer just isn't cool so Kadaj is the less-suckiest of the two

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

I hope I'm not the first to say that Seifer can't fight at all and he's matched against someone who once pwnd Cloud. TattoodManNo7 01:33, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Two votes for Seifer and I already see the pattern of votes for him...Seifer may have killed Odin, but then he got whipped by Gilgamesh! Just reminding you of that. Drake Clawfang

That just proves how awesome Gilgamesh is. --SCM 06:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Hm...Gilgamesh beats Seifer, who beat Odin. Gilgamesh was beaten by Galuf, who was killed by Exdeath, who was beaten by Bartz....interesting transitive properties you've shown. Drake Clawfang
Gilgamesh is too awesome to be beaten, thats why the space-time rift balanced his awesomeness by having ExDeath destroy Galuf for beating him. Gyromite
BARTZ is more awesome than Gilgamesh! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! --SCM 08:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Galuf is more awesome than Batrz who is more awesome than Gilgamesh who is more Awesome than FFXII's cast who beat him as well. If anything Gilgamesh is inconsistent. --AnonyMan 11:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Y-yes, that must make sense *returns to normal* --SCM 02:57, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

It sucks Kingdom Hearts ruined Seifer; where's his rivalry with Squall, it would've been cool. --AnonyMan 12:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

His rivalry still exists, just not with Squall. JudgeZarbi

Huh, TacticAngel actually bothered to make a fight this week. I kinda hoping he had moved on to other things. Well, whatever, I can't hide my disappointment. Anyway, how do you pronounce "Seifer". I've always been a "SIGHfer" kind of guy, but I often hear "SEEfer", which just sounds idiotic. --BlueHighwind 12:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts II says it's "SIGHfer", therefore it's "SIGHfer". JudgeZarbi
Meh. I always pronounced it SAY-fur. Because it does indeed sound better. I Lion Heart I

So... do I vote for Seifer 'cause of the Badass Longcoat and cool weapon or for Kadaj 'cause he has a great Evil Laugh and is connected to Sephy? OtOcon^_- 14:51, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to point out Kadaj more or less has the coat and weapon as well... Drake Clawfang
I am as constant as the Northern Star! --TacticAngel 21:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
In that on some nights we have no clue where you are when we need you?....Drake Clawfang
I can't be here all the time. I will be getting a more predictable schedule soon, though. I have a talk page. I will do all that is necissary, I just can't be on call all the time. Besides, most of you wouldn't want to pay the long-distance. --TacticAngel 21:37, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Seifer is connected to Gilgamesh, while Kadaj gets his own custom Bahamut summon. Lol. Drake Clawfang Man, this is all i gotta say. People here who are against final Fantasy VII will not vote for them at all costs. Good bye Final Fantasy VII winning streaks. -Zack fair 007

Yeah, but this is FFVIII; people were always were hating on it. VII's got nothing on it in terms of negative fan attention. So in the same sense people who hate VIII will vote against it at all costs too. --AnonyMan 20:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
But people should vote for a character because they like that character, not just the game. Im not a huge fan of VII or V, but if i think a character from one of those games is better at the time, i would vote for them fairly. Gyromite
VII is the 7th Chaos Esper's preference, but Kadaj is wack. Yazoo was easily a better character and annoyed the shit out of Cloud in the forbidden forest fight (which is one of very little of Advent Children's saving graces). And SEEfer does sound stupid. Seifer owns Kadaj. Yazoo owns Kadaj. We all own Kadaj. ChaosEsperVII
What no love for Loz? He was the best(can't believe I'm saying this) Sucka...roth remnant, ugh. He had the best weapon...and hairstyle and he was the funniest, he also didn't look as girly as the other two. --AnonyMan 00:56, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Yeah but Loz was a crybaby and they said they didn't give Yazoo screentime for the same reason as Red XIII and Cait Sith's mog, his hair. Plus Yazoo owned Cloud in the Forbidden Forest fight. Loz was emotional support. ChaosEsperVII
Still cooler though(that's why he's funny). I guess they got lazy for Yazoo, because that didn't stop them from give other long haired characters over-the-top action sequences. Yaz got gyped. --AnonyMan 16:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Yea Yazoo got gyped. I don't like or dislike Loz but its cool that he's a serious fighter. ChaosEsperVII
I hate VIII and I voted for Seifer {SIGH-fer}, though I also hate Advent Children. There are, however, some characters from VII that I would choose Seifer over. -- Drake

Hmm! A close fight. This one should be interesting, though I've thrown my vote for the gunblade-wielder. --Tex HOWDY!!! 22:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

It's going that way so far. C'mon Seifer, you can't lose to this crappy, cheap excuse to bring back another crappy villain. --AnonyMan 02:28, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to point out to the one Kadaj voter's comment. The "GunBlade" the two cronies use are really just firearms. Something the Gunblade is in fact not(despite it's name). --AnonyMan 13:52, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

But the Velvet Nightmares DO have a blade-like edge along the top, which they are able to use to block with at the very least.-RedMage
The Velvet Nightmare is a beautiful weapon. Actually the blade is on the bottom. It would be impractical to hold it like a gun and block with the top. Just like it's impractical to block with the top of a normal sword. ChaosEsperVII

Whoever left anonymous vote #4 kinda freaked me out a little.-BlueLionheart

Which side? They're both disturbing. --SCM 21:39, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Seifer, anon no 4. JudgeZarbi 11:47, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Sephiroth should be disqualified for having too many emoticons, and the abundance of 'gay level'...Seymour2012

LOL this reminds me of Chemistry... VN

Week 79: Celes Chere vs Beatrix[edit source]

40½ to 31
Benevolent and traitorous at the same time, these white-clad maidens of mayhen turned on their masters and joined the heroes, and some might say stole the show from them too. Can the Paladin of Alexandria cut Celes down to size, or will the General of Vector freeze Beatrix in her tracks?

Votes for Celes[edit source]

  1. Nothing against Beatrix, she's awesome, but I only played up to disk 1. I know and like Celes better. Plus, given our recent roles in the DNC, it just seems fitting that my vote oppose BlueHighwind's :p. Drake Clawfang
  2. Pablo618:Celes is awesome, Runic was cool
  3. Leon5550:At least she doesnt hav 1 eye and she comes frm a beter game.
  4. Henryacores: She is both a general and an opera floozy.
  5. Better character development, can actually, GASP, use her in battle, and an all around better character than Beatrix CoD ^_^
  6. Firebert:Definitely the precursor to Beatrix. And come on, she's flipping infused with magic!
  7. Sora G. Strife Hm.
  8. RowdyCMoore I know at least one fansite voted Celes the greatest FF character EVER. And I have to agree.
  9. Hyacynth Why do you keep pitting my two favorite games in the franchise against each other. Despite the fact that Celes is my favorite FF character PERIOD, this is STILL a hard choice because man. BEATRIX. She is an incredibly awesome character. I'm giving Celes my vote, though, for the Opera Scene. One of my favorite moments in gaming, I love that music, and I love her story.
  10. Dancing Daggers Same, I love VI and IX as well. And in the end it has to be Celes, I don't know why. Guess she's just cooler. Also Beatrix has an eyepatch, and that soesn't really work unless you're a pirate. Or Blank, who is awesome.
  11. Lancet00 God this is hard. I love them both! But FF 6 Still remains to be the best FF of the series, so my vote has to go to Celes. She was always in my party throughout the game, and I love her sprites too. She just kicks ass!
  12. Firionklauser Part of my final party in VI. Unfortunately, i have yet to play IX, so my vote is biased
  13. Chaltier:Celes should win this one considering she lost to Terra for main character of FFVI.Celes is a great main character rather than Terra and not a guest character like Beatrix.
  14. Adam Mcduck: Celes because, although Beatrix is cooler, she is permantly playable.
  15. BfD: Really hard to choose though... -19:58, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
  16. Zack fair 007 yeah imma choose Celes cause she has a chance at being in dissidia, second to Terra. plus, ff6 pwns ff9
  17. Yumino: Isn't the power of magic a lovely gift~?
  18. Ameria: Bextrix is Awesome and has a better theme song, but I can't vote against Celes. <3
  19. SilverMage: I can't vote for both of them? Aw, christ. Celes wins only because she's a permanent character, otherwise it'd be a dead tie.
  20. Gyromite: Celes can absorb magic, learn magic naturally, and she can use the Ultima Weapon. All Beatrix can do is put a little lightning into her sword...
  21. HexedTourney: Blonde chicks FTW.
  22. Marcus Leonhart: Oh danm... Sooooo hard to choose... I'll keep with Celes, since I love her for such a long time.
  23. PietroFF: I just love Celes.
  24. dudutsai: I would vote Celes over pretty much anyone else. She is my favorite.
  25. Hydronisa: Gotta stick with Celes. Beatrix is a great character, but she doesn't stick with your party for long. That, and the Opera scene won me over.
  26. Lockhart: As much as I like Beatrix, Celes is such a great character. I thought she was deepest character in FFVI.
  27. Vito:Celes
  28. ChocoboRider:lol Opera, sorry Beatrix.
  29. PapaBear:This game rocks and so does Celes.I do like Paladins but Celes is a Mage Knight and yes a novice opera singer.
  30. Masamune: Tough one, but I always liked Celes just a little tiny bit more than Beatrix.
  31. Bobo: Celes is awesome and is probably my strongest charactor in FFVI
  32. Rydiaofmist: Celes is one of my favorite FF characters of all time.
  33. JenovasWitness: Celes!!!
  34. Wikada: Celes is my second best character in FFVI and it's the only game I've completely finished. Plus, the Opera scene is one of my favourite video game scenes ever :)
  35. Maxtersmen: CELES ROX!
  36. NeoBahamut: Celes wins, no contest!!!
  37. Absynthium: Celes > Beatrix, no contest. it's a tough choice but Celes would come out the victor because she's got a leg up on Beatrix being infused with Magicite.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Physically strong, magically powerful, ability to absorb magic, compelling story, Yep Celes gets the nod. When it comes to former female military leaders who join your team, Celes is the original, Beatrix is a poor copy. What ever Beatrix has Celes has two things that trump all, Paladin Shield and The Lightbringer. Celes wins. Period.
  2. Celes all the way, she was an amazing fighter and was one of my top people when I took on Kefka for the final battle. - Musashi
  3. Celes gets my vote over Beatrix mainly because she's much more of a heroine, beatrix is too much of a supporting role so her personality doesn't get explored well and she didn't make me cry as Celes did. -Sorceress Heartilly
  4. Celes was one of my favorite characters to use
  5. They may both be generals, but Celes can sing!
  6. Cause she's a blonde
  7. C'mon this is easy, Celes is one the best female characters in all of Final Fantasy and, along with Terra, the only one up till now that can be considered the main protagonist of one of the games in the series. (No X-2 doesn't count!)

Votes for Beatrix[edit source]

  1. BlueHighwind: Because she's a badass. A sexy badass. Really all badasses are sexy, but Beatrix is especially sexy.
  2. Duh. --SCM
  3. Seiken. 'nuff said. -- N/A 02:58, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
  4. Deadlyslashsword Beatrix FTW.
  5. AnonyMan: FFIX barely has character who aren't even fairly cool. Beatrix is like Celes on Steroids. Plus when she's around you're getting treated to good music, and/or an ass-kicking. She's also involved with another great, Adelber Steiner. In a fight she'd murder Celes, alll while not being a genetically enhanced Magic soldier.
  6. Otens: I enjoyed both but Beatrix almost always killed me.
  7. User:Rainacide: Voting for Beatrix, as much as I love both FFVI & FFXI & both Beatrix & Celes, I'm more of a FFXI fan, Beatrix may not have Runic, but she has Seiken. & she looks pretty good w/ an eye patch. She also single-handed took out your party 3 times in the game. ;] & plus she's one of those temporary characters/gamesharked characters :P
  8. Do you know who your talking about? Beatrix once killed 100 knights without breaking a sweat. That is fucking BADASS! TBM
  9. AsTidus: Beatrix 4ever and ever!!!
  10. Maverick Riot: Beatrix; she was one of my favourite characters from the Final Fantasy series!
  11. Dark Raven: Wow, that's a tough choice. But I have to choose the chick who crushed my party three times.
  12. JudgeZarbi: Beatrix can kill 100 knights with little effort. 'Nuff said.
  13. Oranejo: Beatrix is probably my favorite character from IX. Even though I enjoyed VI a lot more than IX, Beatrix was way cooler than Celes.
  14. Antares*: I haven't played whichever FF game Celes is in but Beatrix is one of my favorite final fantasy characters, she's attractive, powerful, has a good theme song, and uses my favorite final fantasy weapon of the series.She did also single handedly slay 100 knights in combat. My vote goes to Beatrix.
  15. Scottyboy4: no contest.
  16. She's strong, not to mention strong-willed. She's probably the only decent female character on IX. LadyLeonhart
  17. VN: she's more appealing in terms of personality and looks. Although I have nothing against Celes, Beatrix's "Shock" is definitely better than "Runic". And her theme song is better~
  18. Faethin: Beatrix qui vincetur mala. Salve Regina!
  19. Aleria: Never gotten around to playing VI, but I quite like Beatrix, so she gets my vote.
  20. Super Sephiroth: FFVI sucked, Celes wasn't so bad but Beatrix truly rules the floor here. She is an ass saver and thanks to my new Gameshark, she is a permanent addition to my party. I really hope she doesn't lose.
  21. 8bit: Since Celes is indeed starting to pull away, I must throw in my vote for Beatrix. She holds herself with more of a poise than Celes does, and the scene on the Red Rose is one of the best in the series. Roses of May is also one of my favorite themes, due to both its simplicity and beauty.
  22. I Lion Heart I: You use the worst image of Beatrix and the best of Celes. *leaves*
  23. Rocking chair: Celes is pretty good but Beatrix will aboslutely wipe the floor of her. Beatrix is a mad dog.
  24. sjoerd777Beatrix takes this one. Celes was good, but Beatrix is better.
  25. ChiefKakashi: Currently losing.
  26. This is somewhat surprising... --TacticAngel 05:09, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Beatrix can lower everyone's life to a mere 1 HP with just one attack. Don't tell me that isn't awesome.
  2. celes just keeps betraying everybody, at least Beatrix is loyal.
  3. Didn't she single handedly kill a hundred soldiers? She also annihilates all in battle, Seiken is too much fun to play with :P oh and save the queen!!!!! woot!
  4. Beatrix is one of the more physically able women in final fantasy.
  5. Beatrix also has the legendary sword Save the Queen, and can use Holy.
  6. Beatrix is just plain awesome!
  7. I've never played FFVI, and Beatrix is so goddamn sexy and badass. She defeated me three times--canon. I love her Seiken skills, and her beloved Save the Queen. Also she took down a hundred soldiers...and is able to silence a crying infant. Also I'd like to remind you she is sexy. :D So...Beatrix for the win!
  8. I like her theme song...... :3
  9. noob: Beatrix is way, way stronger as a knight. Her sword's hecka strong also; even if you do find it, you can't even use it, haha. Actually, it's more like her sword's "legendary."
  10. One of the best characters in the series, no question. They made her impossible to beat when she opposed the heroes for a reason. And her weapon is truly legendary, hence why even if you get it, no one can equip it. Her theme is beautiful, and the scene with herself and Steiner defending Alexandria is one of my favorites in the game. She has no equal. Celes would put up one of the best fights, but ultimately, Beatrix would win.

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Oh..... so hard.... to choose........can't choose..... gah... 8bit 03:21, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I hear ya, man, I hear ya... Faethinverba volant 03:27, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
I'll probably end up voting late for whomever is losing. 8bit 03:30, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
That's exactly my intention. -Faethinverba volant 17:10, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Why don't you just vote for Beatrix? Celes may be tough, but nobody can survive Beatrix's "Shock". --BlueHighwind 17:16, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
It's not just about who's stronger. Besides, Celes can cast the Giant Blue Dome of Doom. -Faethinverba volant 17:26, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
And she looked dang good in a ball gown. She got Locke flustered, even! Rowdy
Well if it wasn't for General Leo, Beatrix wouldn't have Shock ;D
Celes also can't take Leo on for that matter too. Anony

Thought I would see a better one. No offense though. Otens

The other matches on the list were Celes vs Tifa, Seifer vs Kadaj and Bartz vs Firion. And we know that while Terra may have tied Aeris, Celes would not have been so fortunate. So, take your pick, Seifer/Kadaj or Bartz/Firion... Drake Clawfang 05:51, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
What I meant is that I just expected the match-up, not that it wasn't a good one. You know, General versus General. I just don't see enough random match-ups; That or they have already been done. -Otens
Understandable, but still, look at the other fights, what other options were there that were random? None. Drake Clawfang

Finally, my girl gets back in there! In my book, Celes > Everybody. Yes, even Tifa and her two best friends. RowdyCMoore

Cloud and Aeris? Drake Clawfang 08:01, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Maybe, or it could be the other 2 "friends". --AnonyMan 12:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
RowdyCMoore Tifa reference Count: 2. LOL! 8bit 15:40, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

BTW, gotta speak out against the anon vote that says Celes "keeps betraying everyone." Excuse me? She only "betrayed" the Empire for obvious reasons. Is this person referring to the Magitek factory scene? Kefka was lying through his teeth then! Rowdy

Also, some anon user votes 3 times for Beatrix, and one of them said she can use Holy and Save the can Celes. :p Drake Clawfang 17:15, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
FFVI's Save the Queen. A pretender of the true blade. Like all the other Masamunes that aren't in Sephiroth's hand. --BlueHighwind 17:24, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Except for the case of the Masamune, Sephiroth is the pretender. Edge, or even the emo-technophobe Cyan came before him. Drake Clawfang 17:51, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
I couldn't care less who did it first. Sephiroth did it the right way. The badass way. --BlueHighwind 17:53, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Spoken as I have come to expect. Drake Clawfang 18:37, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Only thing badass about Sephiorth using a Masamune is when Cloud used it as leverage to toss his punk ass, which is also one of Cloud's only cool moments. --AnonyMan 04:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

LMAO i thought that Beatrix was from FF4 with those graphics :P like the ds remake. LOL -Zack fair 007 Oh why are people making a big deal about Beatrix killing 100 knights? Zack whooped like 300,000...minus 3 Zack fair 007

This isn't about Zack or the over-the-top eye candy of Compilations. Also as far as I know Beatrix is a plain(if very strong) human. If she were to go through the SOLDIER process she'd probably put all ofto shame. --AnonyMan 04:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
As well, you fight Beatrix three times, and all three times she wins. Drake Clawfang
Yea, and 100 is hellovalot fr a human. this guy here is a real life human being and considerd the mst powrfull man evr existd, and he only killed 60 men. imagine killin 100 guys. Zack's no man, he's a lab rat of some Dr. Frankenstein. n it's nt even sure he killd 300,000 guys Leon5550
Also in the same vein, you could ask why people are making a big deal about Celes being able to absorb magic or that she can learn it natrually. B. can use magic(which leads one to believe using magic isn't as "exclusive" in other FFs than in IX) It doesn't really matter if you'll be on the ground in about a few seconds from extra-impressive sword work. --AnonyMan 12:17, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Remember this, Celes became a Gestahlian general faster than anyone, so I'm guessing she'd do more than okay among those SOLDIER boys. And as for Beatrix's 100 kills, didn't Celes lay waste to Maranda? Rowdy
She probably could. So she starts a few fires, Okay. Other than both being "turncoat" female generals, you can't really compare them. Beatrix is so far and above Celes in ability(and is much more revered) it ain't funny. She does far more with much less. If anything Leo's the Beatrix in VI, but he's male. --AnonyMan 15:22, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Agreed, which is why I suggested Leo vs Beatrix. Only five people went for it. Drake Clawfang
Zack's got her beat cuz Beatrix can't be in SOLDIER... She's a girl. Hey, the 7th Chaos Esper is not sexist, Shinra is.- ChaosEsperVII
There's no evidence of that. For one, being in SOLDIER isn't anything too great. They didn't let Cloud in, and he's way cooler than any Sora-copy. And I'm not talking about the cool Sora from .hack//SIGN, this is the mediocre Kingdom Hearts Sora. And though we never saw any female SOLDIER members, that doesn't show that woman can't be in the organization. Deepground has plenty of girls, and every member of that group was at least good enough to be in regular SOLDIER. --BlueHighwind 22:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
I know. They could have at least took the time to create a character. Oh wait. In Crisis Core there was this one person Luxiere. It said that it liked Zack because of his smile. At first I thought it was just a gay SOLDIER guy, the 7th Chaos Esper does not hat gays, but since it was wearing a helmet, perhaps it was the only female Soldier character. And yes, the man who didn't sign Cloud up for SOLDIER is an idiot. And speaking of Cloud: why haven't they revealed him for Dissidia? If he's not the VII good guy then that will be stupid. - ChaosEsperVII
Because it's FFVII, they probably want to save it for last. Becuase you know they'll make it the showstealer when they reveal it. Like how Sephiroth was in the trailer, with his stupid tired fire-walk, treating him different like he's special. *sigh* --AnonyMan 00:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

WOW you guys are taking ths too seriously. everyone can't just hate FFVII just because people like it. That's basically what happened. They arent milking cash cows, they ARE MEETING FAN DEMANDS FOR A GOOD GAME, THATS WHAT. And yeah, it was 100,000 to 300,000 as stated before. Zack is not a lab rat. So Shut the fuck up. And beatrix still looks like ff4 ds graphics. At least FF7's was cute.

Hey, we're all just having fun here. I never said anything about hating FF7. I reserve my hatred for the New York Yankees. Rowdy
I liked it better when Zack was just gunned down by three people. Where do you get the number 100,000-300,000 from anyway. That sounds way too much, even by current VII standards.--Oranejo 00:26, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Hey! The Yankees kick ass! Don't be jealous of the most winningest franchise in sports history! --BlueHighwind 01:26, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Chillax FFVII Fan. This isn't even about Zack or VII. Though for the record. If Zack wasn't a labrat, I guess he never went trough all those crazy experimentations(it's not even an insult to his character). Also comparing VII's MegaBlok, Popeye arm graphics to FFIX's is...hilarious. ---AnonyMan 01:49, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Dayum And zack is awesome, and yeah he was experimented on but that doesn't make him any sort of rat. Sephiroth was a lab rat, because he was BORN AN EXPERIMENT. i still like him tho. And anyone other than me not hate ffvii and joined the rebel gropu " like ffvi because other people hate ffvii" Zack fair 007

Yea, I kno how u feel, I respectd Zack and he's my 2nd fav FF characther. But rats are not born experiments, we capture them, then we put them in a nuclear reactor so theyll become the next gen super soldier. Zack was taken by a freak, put inside a pod filled with water from a nuclear reactor waste aginst his own will to be some super soldier freak that is Sephiroth. that's a lab rat's fate. Leon5550
Although I don't like VII. It's still popular as hell. For every 1 person who doesn't like it there another 100 fans. If any FF needs fans to come together it's FFVIII that' get much more negative attention. --AnonyMan 12:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
The 7th Chaos Esper is a VII freak but I do agree with Anony cuz VIII is not a bad game. - ChaosEsperVII

It's 31-24. Starting to pull away. I'll give Beatrix credit - she's putting up more of a fight than Ultros did. Rowdy

Personally, I though it would be alot closer; like a tie even, maybe with Beatrix pulling a slight lead. She definitely's one of the most popular FFIX characters. Then again it's FFIX, it's got very underwhelming attetion compared to most. --AnonyMan 18:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
A Seven to nine vote margin isn't bad, given this place's reputation. BTW, is Ultros still receptionist? I just assumed Gilgamesh took his job along with his dignity... Rowdy

And it looks like Celes will hold on for the win. Her next opponent - Tifa and her weapons of mass destruction! Rowdy

Actually no. Unless TacticAngel finally returns to command, this Friday it's going to be the landmark case of Bartz v. Firion. Celes won't be coming back for some time. --BlueHighwind 16:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Good. No offense to Tifa(this time), she doesn't need to be in any more contests for a while too. Bartz and Firion? I see, the battle between the 2 FF protagonists with the least amount of characterization to them.(Not counting the I and III's casts because they have no character to begin with). --AnonyMan 17:26, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Finally! II and V get some love here in the Colosseum! --Firionklauser

I would've voted for Beatrix.... --Crazyswordsman 04:35, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Week 78: Recurring Comic Relief Boss Battle - Ultros v. Gilgamesh[edit source]

Ultros battle.png
65 to 21

These guys again? They make you laugh (or try their best to). These are the the comic relief monsters from the SNES games. Which is superior, the greedy octopus who has more lives than he does arms, or the incompetent multi-armed epic hero for whom IT'S MORPHING TIME!?

Votes for Ultros[edit source]

  1. Way funnier. Dark Raven - Vote in the Pit!
  2. You're in the presence of octopus royalty! Ultros had the multi-arm thing going on even before Gilgamesh tried to copy him in XII and Revenant Wings. 8bit 00:28, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
  3. Gilgamesh is cool, but Ultros is classic. Besides, he's the administrator of the DNC and has his tentacle-y mug on the template. That is win. Drake Clawfang
  4. Yumino: Uwee hee hee~!
  5. RowdyCMoore Who does Gilgamesh think he is - a Power Ranger? Now that that's out of the way: Ultros would win because he has Chupon guarding his back. He'd sneeze Gilgamesh away and Ultros would take the credit.
  6. Faethin: Ultros is the best comic relief in the whole series. Yet another "best of" for VI.
  7. dudutsai: Neither of them are funny..... but "Yeowch!! Seafood Soup!"
  8. actiondan: really.. random
  9. Utopian Heretic Gilgamesh doesn't stand a chance against Ultros. He's a much better comic relief to a more plot driven game while Gilgamesh was a comic relief in a more gameplay oriented Final Fantasy. Thus, Ultros dominates.
  10. Initial Reality Eh, this is more of a sympathy vote than anything.
  11. PietroFF This guy made me laugh a lot. It deserves my vote.
  12. Keiko2113 Gets my vote for sure, he made VI :) "dont tease the octopus kids!"
  13. Shariii Just.. Look at him!
  14. Lockhart Ultros is epic!
  15. Dancing Daggers: This vote is a half pity, half Gilgamesh-is-seriously-overstated vote. Not that he isn't amusing though.
  16. UM: What a terrible fight. I don't like either of them very much.
  17. Chaltier:Ultros,you'er a joke boss.So sad you have to lose this match.At least you work here in DNC :p
  18. NeoBahamut:Ultros was one of the first bosses I fought ever, and he makes good jokes instead of bad punns, if only people would vote for Ultros more.
  19. Sjoerd777 He's an octopus, that makes him edgible(Or whatever eatable is in that kind of english) that makes him win.
  20. BfD - 17:44, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. This dude is way funny.
  2. Drunken pity vote. cant be arsed to post username even. lets all get wasted.

Votes for Gilgamesh[edit source]

  1. Henryacores: "Because no one loves Gilgamesh more than I do"
  2. FFsage The fact that Gilgamesh has been in many more FF games gives him the nod, though I also love Ultros.
  3. Ultros isn't funny. Gilgamesh is hilarious with great lines all around. He single-handedly saved FFV's entire crappy plot. And his cameo in FFXII was amazing. --BlueHighwind 00:06, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
  4. Pablo618:I hate ultros, easily the worst recurring boss EVER
  5. Mr. Rojo: I like both characters, both were funny in their own game, but Gilgamesh was great in FF XII.
  6. Kaiser Dragon: "Enough expository banter. It's time we fight like men. And ladies. And ladies who dress like men. For Gilgamesh...IT'S MORPHING TIME!"
  7. Zephyrus11: Fly Enkidu! Fly!
  8. Sanctiel: I vote for MORPHING TIME.
  9. Squallinoa_08: Gilgamesh is cool! When I played FFVIII and he appeared, I was like, DAMN! This guy is cool and no one should ever underestimate him.
  10. It Gilgamesh. OtOcon^_- 03:13, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
  11. Gokus789: Excalipoor FTW
  12. Gyromite: Ultros is hilarious, but this is Gilgamesh were talking about here. This is gonna be the most one-sided fight this place ever had.
  13. User:Zack fair 007: Gilgamesh has a cooler name, looks cooler, and Ultros, man, this ain't worth it. Gilgamesh hands down.
  14. User:Rainacide: Gotta vote for Gilgamesh, he has been in more Final Fantasy games but has taken in different roles, some as a theif (FFIX), or a GF (FFVIII) or even a boss (FFXII) while Ultros is just a joke character, which is humourous but Gilgamesh just pwns.
  15. Super Sephiroth:I hate FFVI, don't mind V, but I do like VIII and XII, in which Gilgamesh also appears. I still don't even reraly know who Ultros is, because he sucks balls, along with a great part of FFVI.
  16. YuanchosaanSalutations! 07:03, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
  17. It is not an option for an octopus (read - Tentacle Monster) to win. HexedTourney
  18. Gilgamesh has apeared in more games than Ultros... And his name has never been changed... And he has a crapload of weapons... Most of which are swords, although he does have a spear and an axe... What? I like those too... (Just not as much as swords...) And Gilgy has never once looked like a pile of moving jelly (although it is cool). And his battle tactics are better than Ultros's... And he's funnier! But that's just my opinion...Lord Xale 08:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
  19. Gilgamesh is both funny and cool at the same time. Ultros is funny at times but most of the time he's simply an annoying purple octopus. Adam Mcduck
  20. Gilgamesh's fight in FFXII was awesome.Zack
  21. Vito:Gilgamesh.
  22. JZ: He uses 5 different swords on FFXII.
  23. Xadren: The best incompetent in the world.
  24. He has a song, and does Ultros have a song that's neat? I don't think so. Besides, Gilgamesh is much funnier.~LadyLeonhart
  25. Not because he's funny, he's just so much cooler. I Lion Heart I
  26. I thought they were both funny, although Gilgamesh had a bigger, funnier role than "orthros" in FFXII. I'm going with the one with a bigger résumé. -DarthBangaa
  27. Chocobo Knight not Chocobo-Knight, that's another user
  28. Ancient Sumarian Legend? Count me in!--Muchomas35 14:02, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
  29. maxtersmen: Gilamesh is obviously way better. orthros is an octopus!
  30. Firionklauser: VI was undoubtebly superior to V, but Ultros is a joke. Instead of getting an upgrade in WoR, he becomes a frickin receptionist! Ol' Gil went out with style against Necrophobe, so my vote's for him.
  31. Blykus 16:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
  32. ChaosEsperVII:Who doesn't like Gilgamesh? He has Genji armor, Excalipoor, and Zantetsuken. Not to mention a million other swords.
  33. Tex HOWDY!!! 18:23, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
  34. AnonyMan: I'm not a big fan of Gilgamesh, but he's got his cool points, he was funny in XII, and in IX, he was awesome in VIII. And like what many think, he was one of the best things about FFV(still not enough for me to finish it, though). Ultros is funny to but he doesn't have as much pazazz as Gil.
  35. 2127: How could you not vote for this guy?
  36. Hate to pile it on, but Gilgamesh is too cool not to vote for him.--Oranejo 02:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
  37. Mateus: Gilgamesh's swords can chop Ultros down and make an octopus sushi out of him.
  38. Draga: Gilgamesh is having calamari for dinner tonight!
  39. Masamune: Better music.
  40. BritBoy: He was funny as opposed to annoying like Ultros, he became good in the end and he had the best theme of any character ever.
  41. Black Mage Zemekis:Hated Ultros, + MORPHING TIME rules.
  42. Konira Thax: so one sided, Gilgamesh is a GOD!
  43. VN: Firstly, it's because i love Gilgamesh's theme "Clash on the Big Bridge". Secondly, i love his appearance in FFXII with previous FF weapons. Ultros is annoying, and does not have a memorable theme song.
  44. DrakemasterDrake:Gilgamesh pwns. That is all.
  45. Gilgamesh somewhat defines awesome.--SCM
  46. ChocoboRider:This fight is so one-sided. Ultros just makes everyone angry and Gilgamesh is hilarious.
  47. Goldberry2000: I apologise, but I must contradict my friend Henryacores. Nobody loves Gilgamesh more than I DO.
  48. Leon5550:I can't say dey'r both awesome but atleast this one made me laugh at FF12
  49. Deadlyslashsword: "Let's see how you handle the mighty me! And by me, I mean Gilgamesh!! And by handle, I mean DIE!!!" Gilgamesh FTW
  50. Rydiaofmist: Few characters can compete with Gilgamesh. He's a Final Fantasy legend. I kinda feel bad for poor ol' Ulty though. That hard-working, persistent little octopus deserves more respect.
  51. SeKaLoYa: Excalibur Excalipoor Zantetsuken Masamune etc. etc. the greatest swordsman of all time!!!!
  52. Leaf7634: Gilgamesh has a cooler name and looks cooler but i have never seen them before.
  53. Etch: This is only time i will vote for ffv character over ffvi character. gilgamesh was more entertaining enemy and had more epic story.
  54. ChiefKakashi: Who can vote against Gilgy?
  55. DVardonir: ^Ditto.
  56. MK: Great Theme song and great quotes and a tough boss fight. More than I can say of Ultros.
  57. SilverMage: This isn't even a challenge. Gil is just better, and the 'Women who dress like men' line is priceless.
  58. Ivalicia: I like gil! erm.... GIL!
  59. Gilgamesh:my name talks! go gilgamesh! ;)

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Gilgamesh after he is defeated eventually comes back to defeat an enemy for you, Ultros is reduced to a clerk at a colosseum. Besides Gilgamesh shows up in Ultros's game. He is just that cool.
  2. gilgamesh is so much cooler xD
  3. Yumiko: His theme in FFXII was so awesome! His battle was probaly one of the most enjoyable boss battles in XII. Yay! ^^
  4. Gilgamesh deserves to show up more in Final Fantasy, like a series staple - alongside your regular airship and chocobo!
  5. Dude, Gilgamesh had the best line ever with "It's morphing time." I too enjoyed fighting him in FFXII where as the Ultros reference in FFXII annoyed me.
  6. I love im! He's hilarious! And his part in XII was awesome. Kya~!
  7. Because of the ever search for the legendary sword!
  8. Ultros may have been good, but Gilgamesh was here first. He also had all the arms and weapons, and helps kill Necrophobe.
  9. He was awesome in ff8, people forget that, odin i hate so glad he died, *yay dances on odins grave* he was so cool when they had him as a serious edition, then he came back in 12 and was awesome, he was so cool in 5 too, hes also voiced by john dimaggio who voices wakka kimahri and bender from futurama
  10. Way too awesome to lose
  11. I remember when Gilgamesh first appeared for me in FFVIII, hugely dramatic entrance where you're expecting amazing things, then see "Excalipoor" and roll your eyes as he gently scratches the enemies.Good stuff.
  12. Gilgamesh is the awsomest character in Final Fantasy history!except Vincent...

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Usually the previous fights' votes are tallied before a new one is put up. Since TA isn't here at the moment, can everyone PLEASE REFRAIN FROM VOTING until I tally the votes and remove votes in the wrong sections? Thank you 8bit 00:10, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Oops... I just declared a winner. Feel free to fix the numbers, but I don't think Basch and Noah are going to be winning by surprise. --BlueHighwind 01:32, 23 July 2008 (UTC) (UTC)
Fix the numbers, and remove some votes. Thanks for the large edit conflict that made me copy and paste >.> 8bit 00:25, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I gotta say, with 19 votes in favor and none again, I cannot recall a fight suggestion for the DNC ever getting so much support. This should be good. Drake Clawfang 00:49, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Its why I picked it. If I'm going to get banned for making a fight just out of the blue (no pun intended), it might as well be the best damn fight we have. --BlueHighwind 01:32, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
@Gyromite - this is the most one-sided fight ever? Obviously you missed the Tidus vs. Squall fight - Squall won 66.5 to 28.5. Zidane vs. Tidus, 46 to 15. Or Shiva vs Mateus, 54 to 13.5. Oh, better yet, the Gullwings vs. the Turks - 41 to 7.5! Ha, lowest score ever, X Yuna vs X-2 Yuna: 26 to 5!
The DNC has a long history of horribly one-sided battles. This is one-sided, but it will most certainly end up closer than any of the fights I just named.

GYAH! How is it possible that I'm LOSING to that six-armed FREAK! Y'all want me to eight-slap each one of you, huh? I AM THE ALMIGHTY, ALL-KNOWING RECEPCIONIST! Uwee-hee-hee-hee... -Ultros 15:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC) =)

Madness? This is SPARTA! (kicks Ultros into the Pit of Death :) TheHitman 23:31, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
You're a RECEPCIONIST, are you? -- JZ

Well well, after a week of hearing people complain the Yuna-Aeris or Rydia-Rosa would be too one-sided, we get the battle everyone wanted, and it's turning out to be a FREAKING BLOWOUT??!! Hmmmmm...RowdyCMoore

Hey, it was fair in my mind when I suggested it, and it was BlueHighwind who changed the fight, not me. As for Yuna/Aeris and Rydia/Rosa, it would be onesided. Aeris and Rydia against each other, now there's a match/catfight/pillowfight I'd pay to see. But Yuna and Rosa has no chance against either of them. Drake Clawfang 00:33, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Anyone remember the battle music against Ultros in the Opera House? I thought that music was kind of catchy. 8bit 01:10, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

That music (in VI Advance at least) is called Grand finale & I agree, it's a great music. --Adam Mcduck

Gilgamesh:55; ultros:18. cant we move on? Leon5550

stick a fork in it, this octopus is cooked Etch
I like watching all forms of torture, especially things like this. -- JZ
Anybody up for some tako?? Etch
I'll pass. -- JZ
Jz, ure torturin us wit this boring, 1 sided fight, change, and we might see a nu guy being tortured. User:Leon5550

LOLOL Gilgamesh is kicking ass.....sorry Ultros

Can we please end this and move on?

Wonderful idea, kind sir. However, our current master of ceremonies, Tactic Angel is a iffy on his wiki editing lately. Computer problems, I hear. Though that is tragic and I cannot blame him for it, it does mean that our DNC is falling behind. So, starting today I've decided to help out in his absense. TA likes to put up fights on Thursdays, so if a new fight is not up by Friday night, I'll put the fight up myself. Nobody else seems to take an interest, so here we go. --BlueHighwind 01:05, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Go for it, Blue. I think we need you to step up in TA's absence. --Tex HOWDY!!! 01:23, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Well, actually tonight Drake is putting the fight up. He was planning on doing it before I wrote that and I hate to get in people's ways. And Drake has gone to Diablo to ask for a new dude to be put in charge here. Naturally I suggested myself, because I'm like that. Hope I didn't overplay my hand though. Well, whatever. --BlueHighwind 01:27, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Gilgamesh is sooo overrated... Dark Raven

Week 77: Twin Battle II - Basch/Gabranth v. Edgar/Sabin[edit source]

FFXII Basch Render.png
46 to 36.5
Ff6 edgar.jpg Ff6sabinart.jpg
Ff6 edgar.jpg
The second battle of twins, these a little more serious. In the left hand corner, we have the two opposing forces of the fon Ronsenburg camp. In the right hand corner, we have the Figaro camp. Knight, Judge; Engineer, Monk. Who reigns supreme?

Votes for fon Ronsenburgs[edit source]

  1. AsTidus: I don't know who Edgar and Sabin I'm voting for Basch and Gabranth. The Rosemburgs rule!
  2. BoredFreakTribalBasch is the sh*t! he is clearly a tank and more determined and good-hearted. and we all know good wins over evil!!!!!}}
  3. SCM
  4. Blykus 04:54, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
  5. Adam mcduck: Gabranth rocks & Basch isn't that bad either. Sabin & Edgar are just a bit boring.
  6. Azul: I hate Sabin.
  7. N/A 07:40, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
  8. Thats Maj. Heartless for u!!! I'm votin fr d best twins there is, and those guys know how to kick asses and they choose their fate, they dont let some random coin do the choosin. And u gota love Gabranth's armour n Basch's clothes.
  9. Basch in RW = awesome. You know that I don't think much of Edgar + Sabin if I'm voting for these two and haven't played XII. 8bit BlackMage 14:53, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
  10. Liked them a bit more. No hard feelings.--Otherarrow 15:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
  11. MK:Hm.... Basch beat Sabin..... and Noah beats Edward. Done. That took a while to figure out. *goes back to Disgaea*
  12. Zombire Basch and Gabranth are the best twins in the history of the universe. Loyalty and Honor, they know it. And FF12 was just a kick ass game anyway.
  13. ChaosEsperVII: Who doesn't like these guys? Plus Gabranth looks like Darth Vader. Not to mention Basch's quickenings are cool.
  14. Aleria I loved both Gabranth and Basch, so how could I not vote for them? Plus, they're losing badly..
  15. DarthBangaa I can watch Basch's quickenings all day and still wince in pain every time I see them hit the poor target.
  16. DVardonir: First, I'd vote for the FFXII side once there IS a FFXII side. Besides, it's Obi with Vader Basch an' Gab: They're hot identical twins. *shot* Plus, they're on the losing side.
  17. UM: Edgar's not very cool...
  18. yamiza: Well really....
  19. AvaGirl.
  20. Zero (0)
  21. HexedTourney
  22. BlueHighwind: These guys had one of the most complicated and mature storylines ever to appear in FFXII. I loved Gabranth's desperate plea to be punished for his betrayal. His pain was real. Edgar and Sabin are little more than comic reliefs. As flat as the pixels they're drawn on. And just in case anybody gets confused: FFXII destroys FFVI.
  23. Masamune: Even though Sabin was cool, I HATE Edgar. Basch & Gabranth both kicked phenomenal amounts of ass. Plus they have some sweet banter while Basch is still imprisoned.
  24. Zack:Basch and Gabranth rule
  25. SeKaLoYa: I love Gabranth's armor!! and all Judge armor. Also I like the Chasers armor in the Birth by Sleep secret trailer.
  26. Pablo618
  27. Xaht
  28. Sinh
  29. CidTheFirst: How can you beat Basch and Gabranth's yin/yang dynamic - they were one of the best bits to FFXII.
  30. Deadlyslashsword: Basch and Gabranth tricked everyone about who really killed the king. Edgar and Sabin are cool, but them and thier trick coin just doesn't hold a flame to the FFXII twins.
  31. JZ: Basch's quickenings were great. If you could get Gabranth as a playable character in your party, then him and Basch would kick all ass in their wake. And FFXII was cool too.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Basch's flame purge n Gabranth's judgement looks awesome (even if judgement sucks). Basch n Gabranth are real soldiers, theyr not some royalty hidden in a palace or a cave.
  2. I didn't like FF12, but I haven't really played enough of FF6. So this vote will go off their looks, and seeing as one of these twins has cool-ish armour, my vote goes here.
  3. Because of Basch I wear boots everytime I wear shorts. Besides, he hadouken-ed that air cutter!
  4. I'd have to go with the fon Ronsenburgs, if for no other reason than that you can (and most likely will) make them fight each other. They also have that whole Luke Skywalker/Darth Vader dynamic going on.
  5. IM CAPTIAN BASCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Saraija Merinas
  6. Go Twins!
  7. Dunno who the others are so these two get my vote.
  8. Same But I love Basch! lol
  9. The XII twins are hardened troopers, they've been in the combat zone for way longer.
  10. The Ronsenburg twins are dreamy in a rugged and sexy way. :9 Basch has a Rubiks Cube shoulder patch, and Gabranth/Noah has a bike-looking helmet. xD Besides, I've never played FFVI. But I'm planning on purchasing FFA later on. So this anonymous vote is based on physical appearance, I know how shallow of meh'. :p
  11. "...I'm Captain Basch Von Rosenburg!"-Vaan the idiot

Votes for Figaros[edit source]

  1. FFsage Sabin and Edgar's famous coin flip is a scene for the ages, they get the nod
  2. OtOcon^_- 03:07, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
  3. Drake Clawfang - Edgar and Sabin kick ass.
  4. Both Sabin and Edgar were part of my average "strong team". While basch and Vader Gabranth are cool, I couldn't use Vader Gabranth.
  5. Utopian HereticYou're joking, right?
  6. AnonyMan:Gabranth and Basch are ok in their own right, but compared to the Figaro brothers they look like crap. They're better characters with better personalities.
  7. Atmawep - Bash was cool but Sabin would whoop him and Edgar would school Gabranth.
  8. Gyromite: Normally i would immediatly jump into the FFXII vote bin, but Edgar and Sabin are much better. Theyve been through alot, and they even helped eachother survive the end of the world, Basch and Gabranth, despite how awesome the both of them are, hate eachother too much to consider themselves brothers.
  9. Hydronisa: I don't think think this is much of a fight.
  10. Mymindislost: I do love FFXII, but Edgar and Sabin rule.
  11. actiondan: yea.. Basch and Gabranth were pretty cool.. but Edgar and Sabin were immense.
  12. Vito: Basch kills Gabranth, Sabin and Edgar kill Bacsh.
  13. Otens: [No Comment]
  14. Squallinoa_08: I definitely like Final Fantasy VI, so Sabin and Edgar. Sabin's blitz are mighty powerful and Edgar's tools are insane! Take that Basch and Garbranth.
  15. Metus: Nice way to say it, Vito
  16. Firionklauser: They were two of the best characters on VI. Great match-up, but the Figaro twins are just so much better.
  17. Sabin and Edgar are both powerhouses in Final Fantasy VI (Bum Rush+Chainsaw). Basch and Gabranth are a cliché plot-device. -Henryacores 14:28, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
  18. User:Cloudvs.cecil: Like anything can campare with Bum Rush and the trusty ol' Drill. My choice team always includes the Figaro Bros. Go Figaro!
  19. Lockhart: This vote is basically for Edgar, whom I think owns both fon Ronsenburgs and his brother.
  20. Oranejo 16:12, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
  21. Tragedian: I like the Figaro brothers. They have a nice dynamic between them and I especially love Sabin's scenes with Gau. Some of the funniest in the game. I vote for the SHINY MAN and the royal pervert. ^__^
  22. VN: I like how loyal the fon Rosenburgs are to Ashe and Larsa, and the whole brother conflict thing going on. But the classic 'it was my evil twin' thing turn me off a bit. Throughout FF6, we don't see any brotherly scenes between the Figaros except in certain points of the game. However, the reason I voted for them is because; 1. I love Edgar's Tools, so adorable and he makes the random battles funnier, 2. Sabin, despite his buff physique, he's actually a compassionate person. Not only that he wants to protect his brother, but he also looks out for Gau. Damn sweet!
  23. Sanctiel: I will always vote against anything from XII because I loath it so. VI was way better.
  24. JARIITX 23:37, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
  25. Ameria: Vote for Edgar and his brother. Men were just tougher back in VI. yep.
  26. RowdyCMoore Edgar or Sabin are always in my FFVI party. Even though I cant get Sabin's blitzes to work, he's still a great fighter with Gengi Glove, and Edgar's tools tear monsters apart. Plus, VI is one of the best games.
  27. Yumino: Two-headed coin~
  28. Sjoerd777 Used a coin toss for this. Head was figaro, tails was rosenburgers. Heh, the coin had heads on both sides.
  29. PietroFF Since I love FFVI, I think it IS obvious I vote for the Figaro twins.
  30. Copus This shouldn't be a contest, but i suppose more people have played FFXII now so will vote for the other two.
  31. Etch: Someone keeps deleting my vote
  32. Marcus Leonhart: Sabin vs the world and I still would put my faith on Sabin. Put Edgar on the line and together they are unstoppable!
  33. DrakemasterDrake:I would like to vote for Basch/Gabranth, who were actually my favorite characters from Final Fantasy XII, but Edgar and Sabin were awesome, and if not for Sabin I never would've completed Final Fantasy VI.
  34. Gamer2127:Yes. They were awesome.
  35. Rydiaofmist: These guys were funny, fun, and great in battle.
  36. Zack fair 007 i've moved my vote over here.
  37. dudutsai: Usually I vote because I hate the other guy, but in this case, Sabin and Edgar are just sooo good! Both of them were also really good in battle.
  38. Vanishing Star: Damn, Edgar and Sabin FTW. I hate Basch. :] Crush them.
  39. Keiko2113: ooh hard :( as much as i love FFXII characters i cant help but like Edgar more, not so much a fan of sabin, but Edgar does make me chuckle. sorry Basch / Gabranth.
  40. Mr. Rojo: I like a lot the Figaro brothers, Sabin is one of my favorite FF6 charaters plus he is a monk! and Edgar was cool. I think Basch and Gabranth are good, but just dont like them that much.
  41. Mateus: I think I have changed my mind. Just like to say, Sabin + Edgar = Kick-ass awesomeness. I'm so sorry Basch / Gabranth, you guys are the only best, but Sabin and Edgar could beat you down with ease. *sniffle*
  42. ChocoboRider: Basch is awesome, but Edgar kicks total ass.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. hmmm me nd my dog intersepter can killem all but i dont know how to make battle thing
  2. Edgar and Sabin rox! inseparable by any fight
  3. Edgar and Sabin rules! And Sabins fighting skills are awsome!
  4. Edgar and Sabin were one of my two strongest characters in my party.
  5. Anyone remember the chainsaw? Or how Sabin goes up and just punches enemies in the face? The fon Ronsenburgs just don't have any of the cool shiz going on.
  6. What can I say? Edgar alone owns both Basch and Gabranth.
  7. EmuMaster: Mr. Giant Buzzsaw wins my vote.
  8. You'd be stupid to not use Edgar and Sabin as often as possible.

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

I know final fantasy 12, but those two suck. I hate their guts. But who are Edgar and sabin? someone tell me so i have a reason to vote for them. Zack fair 007 04:48, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, you could try clicking the links to their pages in the header to find out for yourself... --Mymindislost 05:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Supposely the Ronsenburg Brothers should win, but I also think of the Figaro Brothers as the supreme. However I have no choice on which brothers should I vote for. - Mateus

Do a coin toss, heads you pick Figaro brothers and tails you pick Ronsenburg Brothers. If you don't get this, wow, I mean...really... Just playing around though don't let it interfere with your choice. Otens
Actually I like the heads more than the tails, but I like the Ronsenburg brothers more than the Figaro brothers (although I've know the infos about Edgar and Sabin). But look, I prefer that Basch because he had never won before (and Gabranth because I like his armour). But if the Figaro brothers win, let them be. So there's no choice between the Ronsenburgs and the Figaros. - Mateus

Just wanna say, if Basch is the hero and Gabranth is the villain, then I think Cecil and Golbez would have been a more appropriate pair to pit them against. But they'd still lose as they are now I'd think. Cecil/Golbez vs Edgar/Sabin would be more of a fair fight. Drake Clawfang 06:03, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah but supposedly this is a battle of Twins, which Cecil/Golbez are unfortunately(?) not. Otens
What about Palom and Porom from FFIV? Pitting them against the Figaros would've made more sense, but they're crap compared to Basch and Gabranth. So who cares? --AnonyMan 13:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
I do. I like Palom and Porom because of their strong magic. But to put them in a fight againts either Fon Rosenburgs and Figaros, I predict that they will lose drastically --VN
Palom and Porom are pretty bad, but so are Rapha and Marach. Who would win that twin fight? --DarthBangaa
Raph and Mar aren't twins, but they do suck. It's be a toss up between those two and P&P. --AnonyMan 13:34, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

To Tragedian, since when is Edgar a pervert? He is a flirt, yes, but he definitely did not touch Terra's butt or peep on Celes changing. --VN

Edgar is a pervert. Remember when you meet Relm? What was going through his mind? Sick man. Also, talk to the little girls in Figaro to see Edgar's problems. --BlueHighwind 16:22, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Same. I'm hoping that little girl he promised to marry grows up to be fat and ugly and she expects him to live up to his promise. Just to see it bite him in the ass. Drake Clawfang 16:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
While we're on this, who the heck could ever like Relm? Her theme is one of the worst songs in all of Final Fantasy. And she's digustingly annoying. --BlueHighwind 16:33, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
She's a loudmouth, but I wouldn't say annoying. She's one kick-ass mage though. Drake Clawfang 16:38, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

The twins aren't that bad. They were quite good even, in my book. They had their moments (being turned to stone). But rapha and marach, man. so horrible. tactics didn't need 'em--Firionklauser

Dood, they broke the invinsible monk chain. Something about no faith and some skill (can't remember.) Well, Marach did anyway as his skill set does damage through faith. Otens
As much as i love both sets of characters, vi was the better rounded game imho. better story, character depth, villain, conflict. its characters from one of the games you were basically raised on back in the SNES days when sakaguchi was still running the show and amano was developing the characters vs square enix's most recent installation's cast of characters developed by nomura. but thats just my point of view.. Etch
FFXII had plenty of depth. If you think Hironobu Sakaguchi is Mr. Perfect, let's look at FFV. He's the concept creator, and the director. And even so, the game's storyline is emotionally bankrupt! Only Gilgamesh had anything close to depth. Oh, he may have pulled off FFVI and FFVII, but that still doesn't mean the guy is Jesus. Watch Spirits Within, then tell me all about the "genius" of Sakaguchi. --BlueHighwind 15:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
touché highwind. but did i ever say that i thought sakaguchi was a god or a genious? if you look through what i said, i didnt use the words "genious" or "perfect" or whatever the fuck you imagined i meant. and did i ever explicitly say that i thought xii didn't have depth and that it's not a good game because sakaguchi didn't direct it?? i respectfully disagree. i dont know where the fuck you got those assumptions from. stop putting words in my mouth. it's just my opinion that vi had more overall depth, and an art style and directing style that made the characters more lively (with some exceptions in both games ie basch, gabranth and balthier are fucking great characters, while characters like umaro and cyan sucked ass) thats all it is dude. but it might also be the fact that i have a weakness for the classics, so attack one or the other if you really must try to patronize me for giving my opinion. i love both games as it is. as for sakaguchi, ffv was an admitted pain in the ass to play indeed (though i have read you do give a walkthrough to it incidentally saying some positive things about it), as with the spirits within (admittedly an abomination) but look at the other things he brought to the series. he was a part of the lifeblood behind final fantasy and its roots. you wouldnt have final fantasy if he didnt come up with the idea. he, in a sense, was what saved square, but in an ironic twist, was responsible for the fall of squaresoft and the rise of square enix because of his film. that is delving deeper on your point. but you cant forget that some of the most unforgettable games in the series were directed or produced by him (you forgot to mention ffiv and ffix on his list of successes). you cant take it away from him that he directed these games and conceptualized one of the most successful (if not THE most successful) rpg legacies in video games. he wasn't perfect by any means, but more often than not u could count on him to make one hell of a game, and is still a solid video game director in my books, but not films. but i guess thats ultimately up to you to decide what you prefer. i should have worded what i said differently, but dont take my words as negative criticism of xii, and blind support of sakaguchi. besides, my favorite video game director is actually Hideo Kojima of metal gear solid infamy, the only series that i hold higher than ff and the only series that i would remotely consider kissing its ass. well anyways, it was my pleasure arguing with you; i await your counter arguements, unless my deductive reasoning satisfied you. До свидания Etch
Metal Gear is my third favorite game series behind Final Fantasy & Legacy of Kain, but I do agree that Kojima is the main man of directing. I won't say anymore because I am sick and if I argue with anyone right now I will destroy the first person I see physically, mentally, and emotionally unless I see the Dark Knight. - ChaosEsperVII 20:43 PM 16, July 2008
I know how u feel. i got tickets for opening day for that movie and im still on edge to see it. Etch

I just added about five more "DO NOT ADD COMMENTS OR EDIT ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE!!!" because somebody can't seem to read. Maybe if I put more up, he will be able to pay attention. I'm going to Rollback the next edit I see that screws up this page's format. I don't care what you just said. --BlueHighwind 01:22, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

whyy, because it makes sense?? you're a piece of work dude. get your head outta your ass, you'll be a better person. hey, who knows, u might just live longer too. Etch
How does Editing Below the Line make sense? That message is up there for an excellent reason. So that you don't delete the "|}", which is required for the code of the page to run properly. To make sure that this grey box ends right here where it should. So that the Fights remain seperated by neat white lines. Ignoring this screws up our format, and makes everything look wrong. Then I have to fix it. Only somebody who is purposefully out to Vandalize would edit below the lines now. --BlueHighwind 02:02, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
o u mean this thing |} thats at the very bottom?? when i was writing down i thought i had made a mistake and i had typed that down there. i know this sounds like a stupid excuse but when you use a touch pad instead of a mouse one brush of the touchpad with your hand can change where you're typing. and i dont remember exactly everything that i type so i deleted that knowing that you're not supposed to write or edit below there thinking that this stupid touch pad did that again and i had typed a little bit of gibberish below. i couldnt tell that was a part of the html because it didnt look like it belonged there to me. im not an html expert, it was an honest human error. thats all i did. i was saying what made sense was arguing back and giving you your argument that u deserved back, and then having the nerve to ignore it, and not have the decency to even counter argue. where im from you dont get away that easily with what seemingly was an attempt to make me look stupid, without having to take shit in return. im an open minded guy and i believe everybody has the right to think for themselves and make their decisions, but i dont take shit from ANYBODY. but i am sorry, i know better now about the |} thing. thank you for bringing this to my attention. keep up the good work on the site.Etch
This is so off topic, but WTF? FFXIII on Abomination 360? Whatever happened to loyalty? Oh wait, Square took a crap on Nintendo. I hate XBOX. Anyone want to vent with me? - ChaosEsperVII 13:24 PM 17, July 2008
It's a fairly good move and I do like the 360. It's more than likely going to add sales to the 360. Now If only XIII is good(so far I'm not interested in ANYTHING FFXIII related). --AnonyMan 20:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Anything with Microsoft on it sucks. I may one day get an old PS2 just to play the FF games I can't get on Nintendo. But no Xbox will ever invade the sanctity of my home. RowdyCMoore
Wow, overreacting much? The move from PS3 exclusive to Multiplatform with the 360 was not only foreseeable, but predictable. Hell, most of the Sony exclusive game that were supposed to come out in the next year were announced to come over to 360. Why? Because the 360 generates more sales then the PS3 and therefore is the better target market. In other words why sell to 10 people with PS3s when you could sell to 100 people with 360s? And don't try to convince me the PS3 DOESN'T suck, you know you're just lying to yourself. But if any of you think you can change my mind, go ahead and try.VitoRyu
Explain how the PS3 sucks.- ChaosEsperVII 10:01 PM 20, July 2008
PS3 sucks because it's too expensive. 360 sucks because of the Red Rings of Death. Wii is kicking both their asses and if Square had any sense, they'd go crawling back to Nintendo. Rowdy
Price isn't a good reason for a console sucking. The PS3 is superior to the others. You get what you pay for. - ChaosEsperVII
I've moved the console wars over to my talk page, so it doesn't flood the DNC. VitoRyu

1. Me want cookie! 2. All your final fantasy are belong to us! 3. Refer to 1.

First of all, sign your posts, please. Second, WTF? --SCM 03:39, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

the dark knight kicked ass!! heath ledger truly outdid himself, and even jack nicholson. he should win a posthumous oscar if you ask me. thats all im gonna say without spoiling it. GO SEE THAT MOVIE!! Etch

IMDB users voted it as number 1 in the top 250 movies of all time. Although i don't rank my movies i would have to say it is up there. I haven't been as excited in a movie theater in a long time. Every actor really outdone themselves. I would say best Batman movie, best comic book movie, best villain ever, best batman actor, best joker, best two face. I overhyped it myself and it far exceeded my expectations. If Ledger doesn't win an Oscar I will incite civil war. - ChaosEsperVII 6:00 PM 22, July 2008

I was gone for five days correct? So why is this fight still up? In one hour, I'm changing it to Gilgamesh vs. Ultros unless TacticAngel swoops in and corrects things. (This is all at risk of being Banned, but I can deal with that.) I assume there will be no objections. --BlueHighwind 21:59, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Pre-vote for Gilgamesh XD. Hope the Yiazmat vs Penance one comes up soon... JZ

Week 76: Vincent v. Balthier[edit source]

Vincent Valentine
46 to 30
Barret was a gunner too, but these are the finesse guys.

Votes for Vincent[edit source]

  1. umm.... its colosseum, meaning they fight. not who u like or dont like for w/e reason. Vincent would pawn Balthier, and thats the truth. If u say otherwise, u r lieing to yourself.GrimMoogle 11:34, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
  2. I have a feeling Balthier's country of fangirls are going to come through for him here... Don't get me wrong, I love Bal, but Vincent has less love going his way. (Pity vote. And I hate giving pity votes.) --AvaGirl10Roses
  3. I can tell by his quotes that Balthier is cool. But come on, Vincent is a friggin' Vampire! Count Dracula II FTW! Drake Clawfang
  4. ACTIONDAN - this is so rediculously unfair.. i really do like Balthier.. but.. Vincents probably gonna need the votes.. plus I love little Vinnie :( *sigh*
  5. Bah. Vampire-like moody people make for better characters than attention whores anyday.--Otherarrow 22:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
  6. I never played DoC, nor did I really follow AC all that well, so I can not really judge him from those. What I do know is that Vincent was in my original party in VII, plus he is also one of my favorite characters.--Oranejo 22:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
  7. Ajox: Vincent beats Balthier anytime, in everything just compare backstory, skills, game, outfit, etc...
  8. Gokus789: Once you get past DOC, Vincent is still a major badass. Cerberus/Death Penalty beat out whatever Balthier gun is. Lets not forget Chaos for overkill.
  9. Not much of a Balthier fan, unless you're talking about this Balthier. -- N/A 00:48, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  10. Ameria:How Cruel to make me chose between the two. But Vincent had my love long before Balthier, and I've always prefered the strong Silent type.
  11. Lord Xale:Listen, I just think that Vincet is one of the coolest FF characters ever... I meen come on his outfit? Awesome! His transformations? Unbelivibley cool! The guns which he uses? Still awesome no matter what installment in the series! Bassically, Vincet is aweXsome!(That's a word I made up, BTW(It means more than awesome)). Besides, Vincet seems a lot like me in many ways... Including the fact that he's the silent type... And his taste in clothing...
  12. Vincent, hands down. --Tex 01:18, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  13. Numbers don't lie. Vincent>Balthier Vito
  14. Shadowjomi: Vincent may not have great personality like Balthier, but he saved world once and he is way more powerful and cooler...
  15. VN I like them both but it was Vincent who made me fell in love with him at first sight. He's cooler.
  16. Draga Gotta go with the emo. He has a 3 BARRELED GUN!
  17. Blykus 10:10, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  18. SHARIII: I dont understand why people dont like Dirge? I played it as soon as it came out, and yes, dispite being very different to the usual FF's.. it was actually OK. Short. But OK. And I really hate anything like shooters, as I'm usually quite rubbish at them. Anyhow, enough about Dirge.. This is a real tough one, and quite cruel! I love both characters verrrrrrry much... But, I'm going to have to go with Vince.. I liked him first. Plus Chaos is awesome.
  19. dudutsai: Well... I hate to vote with all the random FFVII fanboys, but I never liked Balthier. He really annoyed me with his attitude. Vincent was cool enough to be in my party even though he was junk in battle.
  20. Dancing daggers: I'm just suprised no-one has said "Yay, it's the leading man! lol :p". The Balthier Fangirl/boy-ism has gone on long enough. Anywho, Vincent is far more bad-ass.
  21. Ghosta: Vincent!!! - He is mysterious, cool-looking, has awesome past. Plus he can transform into Chaos. What more can describe him over Balthier.
  22. Adam mcduck: Vincent's just cooler.
  23. Lord Knight Xiron: Is there really any contest here? I mean, come on. You can't put anyone next to Vincent and expect them to win!
  24. ChaosEsperVII: I think someone deleted my vote. VIncent and Cloud are my favorite characters.
  25. UM: My favorite character in the series! And there's nothing wrong with emo. My best friend is emo (but I'm defenitely not - just geeky).
  26. Maverick Riot: Vincent just spells cool. Well he doesn't. But you get the idea. Not that Balthier isn't cool, but I'm just a big Vincent Fan.
  27. Sora G. Strife: Death Penalty. Balthier needs a phoenix down anytime now...
  28. DrakemasterDrake:Yes, Dirge Of Cerberus sucked. Yes, Advent Children sucked. Yes, Crisis Core sucked. Yes, Vincent was an optional character in Final Fantasy VII. He's still twenty times (and a half) cooler than Baltheir.
  29. SeKaLoYa:Balthier is such a fop. He can become quite strong in the game if you get Wyrmfire Shot Not that Vincent is any better.
  30. Guess why. OtOcon^_- 20:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
  31. Rydiaofmist: I just like Vincent a little more.
  32. Sanctiel:I'm not much for Bond rip-offs, plus Vincent becomes Chaos and he looks badass.
  33. User:Clvabl:Vincent is more powerful and someone deleted my vote.
  34. user:Matthew Huber vincent all the way hesa badass hes strong in a fight hes able to turn in to many demons and hes even got his own game hes also my favorite FF caracter
  35. Squallinoa_08: Vincent is cool! He is much cooler than Cloud & Sephiroth combined!
  36. yamiza: Vincent is pwning! :P
  37. YuanchosaanSalutations! 10:15, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
  38. MCMLXXXIV: CHAOS!!! This is awesome.
  39. BigSlurp: Vincent = FUN!!!
  40. Goldberry2000: Seems like a no brainer to me. Not only that, but Vincent is winning; it's good to see the legions of Balthier lovers loosing something for a change.
  41. Gamefreak520: Triple-barreled Cerberus says it all.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Vincent is a VAMPIRE!!!!!! And he has a way, way cooler backstory.
  2. At guy above me ^ Vincent is not a vampire, he just looks and seemingly acts like one. Anyway, Vincent is one of my favorite characters, and no, I'm not one of those stupid FF7 fanboys. I just simply thing Vincent is better than Balthier.
  3. Yay for the immortal Vincent!
  4. Always had love for Vincent. Also, Balthie's voice just bothered me too much, that I can't fangirl up to him.
  5. He can change into Chaos, the FF's version of Satan.
  6. Despite how much I love Balthier and relate to him, He is no match for Vincent who is or was a vessel for Chaos and still transforms into the Galian Beast at default. ;-;
  7. Yumiko: Vincent Price! ;)
  8. Vincent is better.
  9. ...
  10. Vincent!!! xD
  11. Although I love Balthier and he ranks pretty high up for me, Vincent is someone I can connect to. Beacuse of Lucrecia; that is, I was in a similar situation...
  12. Hmm... I love Balthier, don't get me wrong (Sky Pirate = uber cool) and he's just v. funny. But Vincent wins hands down!! That scene in AC when he comes along and owns the hell out of Kadaj and crew!!! Awesome. Plus, Vincent would owwwwwn Balthier.

Votes for Balthier[edit source]

  1. Remember this as one of the very few times that I'm voting against something FFVII. But Balthier is too cool, and Vincent lost all my respect after Dirge of Cerberus - the only Final Fantasy game worse than FFVIII and FFX-2.
    --BlueHighwind 19:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
  2. Pablo618: Balthier is really cool
  3. Yumino: Balflear~
  4. SCM: Compilation of FF7 sucks, and Dirge of Cerberus ruined Vincent.
  5. ChiefKakashi 23:00, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
  6. HollyP: Who can resist a smooth talking sky pirate? Not me.
  7. Otens: I think my eyes are deceiving me but I am going with Balthier. Not as a Pity vote.
  8. Lockhart: Even though I'm a FFVII nerd, Vincent was never my cup o' tea. Balthier, on the other hand, is the pimp of all pimps.
  9. Super Sephiroth: Sorry Vincent, Balthier was the core of FFXII and just plain awesome. But I like Vincent almost as much.
  10. Wow, with the amount of people who love Balthier, I'm surprised to find that he is losing, but that must be the new users who only vote here. Cloudofdarkness 04:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  11. Firionklauser: "My shot is faster, or my name's not Balthier"
  12. HexedTourney: Balthier. Is. >. Than. Dieties.
  13. Masamune: Balthier rules. Vincent rules. Tiebreaker:DoC. Sorry, Vincent.
  14. Zombire: Vincent is cool enough. But really? Baltheir wins in every single way possible.
  15. Xaht: Though Vincent is my number four favorite FF character, I have to give my vote to "the leading man." Balthier is a very charming and sophisticated character. Has is a very classy guy. He is knowledgeable in airship mechanics (obviously since he somewhat fixed the corsair rings or whatever they were called on the Bahamut) and is a superb pilot. I've like to see Vincent, or even Cid for that matter, fly an airship as well as Balthier does.
  16. Aleria
  17. Tough Vincent is awesome, Balthier shows up in the series the same three times and makes a much better appearance. He's awesome in XII, broken in FFT and cool in RW. -Henryacores 12:38, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
  18. Vanga: Admittedly, I've yet to beat FF7 or even get as far as to obtain Vincent, but I have read up a little on his character. Let's look at the facts. Vincent can turn into Chaos. Well, that's not a very fair point, Chaos is apparently a Limit Break. Balthier has that equivalent, he has Quickenings. Vincent was a member of Turks, which makes him a recognized elite fighter, well Balthier was a Judge which is also an equivalent of sorts, as they're both elite outfits. The only real difference between the two is that Balthier went on to become a sky pirate and continue to grow in ability and experience while Vincent fell asleep for 28+ years with a brief awakening before the events that involve Cloud and party. In the end Balthier would be the strongest of the two in my book, though you could still argue as far as them being about equal. At that point it comes down to coolness factor, between the unoriginal emo-sounding character and the cool and stylish sky pirate. Vote goes to Balthier either way.
  19. Utopian Heretic This was the hardest poll I think I've yet to see on anything opinion based. Ever. As much as I love Vincent for his epic dark and mysteriousness, his awesome pwnage, and his use of guns, a new FF weapon, I realized that he was an overused styled character. Lots of games have the dark, mysterious character that secretly has a connection to the antagonist. Balthier was a less used style, more creative character. Not quite a full bandit, he was more a Robin Hood in a sense. Add to the mix a bit of Han Solo, and a feeling of being the main character, and you have a truly creative person. That is Balthier. True enough, I believe Vincent would destroy Balthier in a fight, but I really enjoyed Balthier's uniqueness over the overused persona.
  20. keiko2113: Balthier of course, he is the leading man after all!
  21. A pity vote for Balthier, yes...a PITY VOTE!
  22. AnonyMan: Balthier's a decent character, and pretty entertaining. The only cool thing about Vincent is that he's an ex-Turk, if he still were then my vote would probably be alot harder to decide.
  23. 8bit: Not that I care much about either character, since I didn't play VII and wasn't very impressed by Balthier in Revenant Wings, due to him being one of the worst leaders in battle. However, I think a lot of users will start crying when Balthier loses, so this is to ease the pain a bit. Vincent does look pretty cool though.....
  24. RenzokukenXIV: I'm not a Vincent fan at all.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Balthier's too cool to not vote for.
  2. without all of enix's awful inclusions to the FFVII story i would have voted for vincent for being a mysterious interesting enigma but i really don't care for him anymore and i think balthier has the ultimate sass :)
  3. balthier just kicks ass with his "leading man" personality.
  4. 'I'm only here to see how the story unfolds. Any self-respecting leading man would do the same.'
  5. Vincent is an emo.
  6. Balthier is a cool guy. Vincent is cool, even if Dirge of Cerberus sucked. Oh and BlueHighwind, you suck balls for saying that Final Fantasy VIII sucks you poor bastard!
  7. Vincent decides to put himself in a coffin and sleep for the rest of his life when he realizes Hojo is slowly turning insane and gets himself owned in the process being shot and all. How does Archadian Judge Ffamran Mid Bunansa react when Cid starts to lose it? He becomes a sky pirate flying around, scoring with Viera, and amassing obscene amounts of wealth hunting for treasure.
  8. Never liked the emo prick...was always a boring character. Balthier has always been one of my favorite FFXII characters.
  9. It's not easy being this popular--BLAM!
  10. Balthier.
  11. I'm going with the guy who can bring down the Bahamut and live to take his ship back- Musashi
  12. Vincent is also a gun-wielder, but playing FFA2, I don't like flashy appearances! GO VINCENT!- Asuka

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Yes, I anticipate a landslide. --TacticAngel 21:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Since this fight is turning out oddly equal (thought I seriously do not think this will last for long), I believe it is time for an argument. Now, Dirge of Cerberus is not a good game. In fact, its the worst Final Fantasy ever. Yet for every wrong opinion, there is one person who sadly believes in it. Just try me. I challenge somebody to defend Dirge of Cerberus. Match set! --BlueHighwind 23:31, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

.. I liked Dirge! actiondan.. pointless story.. but.. the game play, wasnt all that bad! Vincent was a good character.. though, Hojo, and Weiss.. possibly the worst final battle / antagonist of any game, ever existing, ever..
Glad to see that somebody was dumb enough to endulge me. I needed a laugh. The gameplay was "all that bad". Broken, broken, broken camera. Dirge of Cerberus is "dammit you idiot, why are you looking over there? Where am I? How did I just die?" gaming torture. The Melee attack was a cheap joke - a beginner's trap that could never do any real damage to any enemy. You have a double-jump, but there's no use in using it. Magic was a waste of time. As were the Limit Breaks, I mean "Limit Break". And even though the gun customization was easy and intuitive, it served little purpose. Not to mention that the game is pitifully short, you can finish it in a day (if you hack into the game to skip cutscenes). Finally, all the little "extra" stealth missions and rail-shooting crap was as badly tacked-on as the worst of the FFVII Mini-Games. It was just a disaster from start to finish. A total mess. --BlueHighwind 23:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
PS: To Ajox: I understand that FFVII is better than FFXII. But please explain how Dirge of Cerberus is better than War of the Lions and Revenant Wings. --BlueHighwind 23:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
actiondan - yeah yeah the game was short.. and i rarely used his limit breaks.. but for what it was.. it was pretty good.. im not usually into shooters.. 1st or 3rd person.. alas this was worth it... it was simple to play and complete.. but not Easy by any means.. the Cerberus was Intense, and Vincent himself was and always is Awesome. Cait sith.. not so much, the story wasnt great, but it added a whole lot of backstory to 7, which.. was far more interesting, than any of the other sequals / prequals so far. again Hojo.. was the only real.. low point of it for me
Ajox: Yeah Dirge sucked bad... but my base of comparison is their original appearance in each game, Vincent in FFVII had more backstory than almost FFXII character lol...
@actiondan: This is totally off subject, but why always 2 periods? --ChiefKakashi 00:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Draga Maybe he thinks he's William Shatner?
I'm not going to defend it. Dirge of Cerberus sucked in gameplay because it was so redundant and the only reason I stuck with it was because of the story. At least they wrapped up Vincent's story. FFVII left it so open. I like how they made an optional character so much more important than many of the others. But seriously, if Vincent can jump a 100 feet in the air in the cinemas, then he should jump like that in the game. They should have made like a Devil May Cry/God of War hybrid gameplay. And I don't know about Revenant Wings because I haven't played it, but there is no way Dirge of Cerberus, even though I liked the story, is better than War of the Lions. FFT is easily makes the Top 10 in best Final Fantasies. ChaosEsperVII

I'm finding this majority for Vincent completely unacceptable. He's a NOBODY. A mediocre character at best, only a child of seven could be fooled into thinking he's cool. Cloud, Tifa, Barret, Cid, and even Aeris are all better characters. I remind you all, that he's up against BALTHIER - probably the best character Final Fantasy has seen since FFVII. Have you played War of the Lions? He kicks every color of ass. Nelo, you can wait another month or so until you get a Medal of Honor. --BlueHighwind 00:54, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I guess a plain nobody is a better character than a nobody who tries too hard to be somebody.--Otherarrow 00:59, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Balthier isn't "trying" to be anyone. That's just who he is. What is there beneath the personality? Nothing. Its not like he's actually Sephiroth on the inside (if he is, I want to see some evidence, because that would make him the greatest thing ever!). You'll find I'm pretty skin deep as well. --BlueHighwind 01:02, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
For all its faults, I have to say that I like Vincent more after Dirge of Cerberus than I liked him before. The system, itself, was undoubtedly broken, though even with clunky controls I often found myself having fun. I especially liked being able to customize things, but was equally let down by the depth of that customization. Giving a little more (or any) Vincent backstory at least fleshes him out and makes him more than an vampire with a gun in red and black and an awesome cloak. Thus, he rose from Auron like 'tries to hard and fails' obscurity to 'has kind of a crappy life' decent... though I can't imagine how he is beating Balthier.--TacticAngel 01:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
The only good part of Dirge of Cerberus was the flashbacks. Though it didn't exactly tell me anything I didn't already know. And the whole "Choas and Omega" thing completely lost me. However, what the HELL is up with Vincent and Shelke? I don't think any other game ending has made me forceably remove the disc in disgust (and I sat through FFXII's awful letter sequence). --BlueHighwind 01:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Balthier is really charming. Vincent is just likeable. Plus Vincent has a cape. If you can wear a cape in this day and age, you are cool. Also, Cerberus gun and his Chaos form= pwn. However, although I like him alot in Dirge, I think in VII he was cooler. He was that cool shady guy who always stood in the background away from everyone else and if they needed wisdom he would give. I think him as a leading character wasn't all that great. He's better as a supporting character, even though he is just as important as Cloud, Tifa, and Aeris because his beef with Sephiroth is just as deep. Cloud, Tifa, and Vincent vs. Safer Sephiroth. I hope that the next sequel in the compilation puts him back in the supporting role, but keeps him as an important character. Also, seriously Square-Enix, revive Shalua so he can get with her instead making him looking like he's a pervert. I know Shelke is technically 19, but that is just gross. Vincent has the 7th Chaos Esper's respect.-ChaosEsperVII 2:48 PM, 6 July 2008

That's it. Bye bye. This sucks, and I don't want to watch this travesty any more. Wake me next Thursday (or do new fights come on Saturday now?). I'm outta here. --BlueHighwind 01:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

People may want to remove their pity votes for Vincent now~ ^^; —Yumino

This sucks. I love both these characters too much. Zack fair 007

I have no idea which Gunner is better. Their outfit looks good, and they kick more ass. Vincent, or Balthier? - Mateus

Uhh? Why is Vincent a Vampire? He is a fucking experiment, not Vampire. - Otens

He's immortal, he can transform into a demon, he sleeps in a coffin, he's pale and he's got a red and black cloak. If Vinnie's not a Vampire, he's as close as one can get without being one.
Otens: He is not immortal, just extended life. He transforms into demons because of genetic enhancements. He slept in a coffin because that was the only place he could sleep in the mansion 'without' being disturbed. He can walk through daylight and he doesn't drink blood or seduce people. He is no where close to a vampire. Also, Clothes are not even related to the subject.
Yeah, the coffin thing is the only thing that remotely gives of any sort of vampiric vibe. Other than that he's just like most "demonic" human characters. --AnonyMan 03:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Vincent is not a vampire but Square-Enix does confirm that he is pseudo-immortal, in that he cannot die of old age -ChaosEsperVII 2:48 PM, 6 July 2008
I wonder if he can die of cancer? Anyway my point is that he is not a Vampire and is hardly close to it. -Otens

Holy heck, I swear Vincent's vote count just doubled after I voted. --AnonyMan 03:39, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

My vote is for the underdog, Vincent Valentine. Death Penalty FTW. --Tex 05:25, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, I'm tired of people calling Vincent the underdog. He's not. He's beating Balthier (though that's subject to change), and a lot of people who have voted (including myself) believe that Vincent is just as cool as Balthier. --Masamune

I'm surprised... I was expecting the opposite; Balthier pwning Vincent. I thought people hate emo dudes. Oh well... But don't be stupid guys, you shouldn't judge a character based on how good the game is. That is totally biased. I like them both, but Vincent wins my vote because of his enigma. --VN

Just for the record, I think XII is far superior. - dudutsai

For the record, I don't think anyone cares about one person's opinion, honestly. Maybe to this too. - Otens

If Balthier loses I may just die a bit on the inside.High Summoner 03:35, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Dirge Of Cerberus sucked, in fact, I can't say a single good thing about it. But hell, you know what, Revenant Wings sucked too (I'm actually playing it now). You can't count Tactics because I don't count a)remakes, or b)cameos (that's right, Cloud doesn't count in Tactics either). Vincent can count in Advent Children and somewhat Crisis Core(still, more of a cameo), and seeing as none of us have played Before Crisis, can't say shit about that. Number of appearences don't matter though, how cool they were in them on average is. Vincent is cooler in his three appearences than Baltheir is in his two. (I should note that I don't visit the DNC very often, so if you really want a response from me, then hit me up.) -- Drake

Just as a generic note, it never fails to amuse me how many people can be die-hard VII fans, but hate the rest of the Compilation...for the record, Advent Children kicked ass. Drake Clawfang 04:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

AC is fine, I don't like the rest of the Compilation. SCM 04:24, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
AC sucked. It was crappy fanservice, Kadaj was not a deep villian (Kefka had more backstory than him for god sake!), and Sephiroth did not belong anywhere but in flashbacks! Another pointer for Vincent, by the way, is that he's Sephiroth's father (don't give me that Hojo crap, Dirge pretty much spells it out that Vincent's the father). -- Drake
Thanks for proving my point, DMD, better than anything I said ever could. Drake Clawfang 04:42, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Umm... but if you check Vincent's page about that rumour... "However, this is confirmed to be untrue in the FFVII Ultimania Omega" --VN
And even school kids know that Kefka is really Sephiroth's father. --BlueHighwind 14:58, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, obviously. And Sephiroth is Cloud's Father... "Cloud, I am your father" Cloudofdarkness 16:51, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
No Cloud has no father. Sephiroth does have many sons including but not limited to: Riku, Zechs Merquise, Kaworu Nagisa, Dilandau, Marquis Elmdore, Vicious, Sesshoumaru, Xemnas, and weirdly Tsukasa (even though he's actually a girl). --BlueHighwind 17:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Makes me wish I knew all of them. Cloud is a test-tube baby! Bwahaha!-Otens
Vincent is not Sephiroth's pops. It's been confirmed long ass time ago. But he is Raziel's father from Legacy of Kain series. -ChaosEsperVII 2:48 PM, 9 July 2008

Um, my vote for Vincent was deleted for some reason. Rydiaofmist

You have to be logged in to vote as a registed user, it's not difficult. Drake Clawfang 18:09, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
lol Whoops, I usually log in automatically and I guess I didn't pay attention to the fact that I wasn't this time. Ah well. Sorry about that. I'll vote again. Rydiaofmist

Vincent is pwning now. Sora G. Strife

yumiko: well um i think there is some misconception of vincent. i noticed there was a anon vote for balthier (i dont know which number 'cause im to lazy to check) that said that he chose to sleep in a coffin etc. vincent didn't choose to sleep in a coffin. he was injured by hojo and then lucretia put chaos into him to save him. i mean any person who played vii would know that. so plz play the game or read the article before you start spewing nonsense. "_"

Technically, yes he did put himself into a coffin. When Cloud woke him up originally, he would tell Cloud not to bother him and said to let him rest and something about a nightmare. He could have gotten out of the coffin at any point. Otens

Week 75 - Bad Fight Week III[edit source]

Time Battle[edit source]

Turn Based
FFI Phantom Train.PNG

Active Time Battle

Real-time Battle

42 to 26 to 8½
Final Fantasy started out humble, sporting a turn based system. Order might have been randomized (or not) depending on the game, but I-III all had a turn based system. Final Fantasy IV was the advent of "ATB" or Active Time Battle, where different characters and actions might charge, recharge, or be used with different time allotments. Time may stop or continue as you wait to do something, but through X-2, all FF were on the ATB system, even Final Fantasy Tactics. The latest two installments, the online Final Fantasy XI and the single player Final Fantasy XII both have real time systems, relying on player imput or programmed actions... which do you prefer?

Votes for Turn Based[edit source]

  1. Hyacynth: I'll admit it. I've only ever barely tolerated the ATB system, and while the gambit system in XII is nifty, I generally prefer your basic turn-based. ATB was only ever used truly effectively in Chrono Trigger.
  2. Zephyrus11: I like all 3, but FFX was my favorite battle system of the series. It was turn based, but felt so much more fast paced and interesting than 1-3. Just because a game is turn based doesn't mean its easy or boring.
  3. Pikmin Master: I'm not just voting for the one that'll obviously lose. Even though FFX started my FF career, I've always perfered the Turn-based side of battling. ATB is alright, but quite cheap for the slower characters. I've never played XII and probably won't like Real Time anyway. I'm still a Pokemon fan since around 11 years ago and I'm still into Turn-Based. Heck, I liked FF BECAUSE it had Turn-based, not ATB.
  4. Rydiaofmist: To be honest, I wouldn't want to stick to one battle system all the time, and which one I like most totally depends on my mood. Switching things up is generally a good thing. I'm just voting for turn based since it's not getting much support.
  5. I don't mind all three but I'll vote for turn-based because it's... easier? You can cancel a move if you think you select the wrong --VN
  6. LordofCheese: I place my vote on the tun-based combat system. It's just classic.
  7. Solox: Oh ditto to everything already said for sure! Although if it came down to it, if the Tactics engine was an option, that would get my vote.
  8. ILHI: This vote maybe for the wrong one, bit this sounds right to me :D
Anonymous Votes[edit source]

1) Since I have rather slow reflex I naturally prefer turn based system.

2) It's what started it all... plus they had Red Mages.

Votes for Active Time[edit source]

  1. Yumino: Random battles~!
  2. Because FFX-2 has the best battle system ever -Henryacores 02:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  3. Faethin: Brilliant.
  4. ChaosEsperVII: Have to agree, FFX-2 got it right on the battle system. However, it looks like XIII will be real time but better. Oh if Lightning would be capable of jumping, it would be a godsend.
  5. Zack fair 007I think that ATB would win because of its lively affect...turn based is cool, but the rtb of FFXII sucked, and since it doesn't countfo FFXIII, i'm going to go with ATB
  6. Oranejo 03:57, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  7. IV, VI and VII - ATB. You know what was turn-based? Mystic Quest. Know what was real-time? Me neither. Drake Clawfang
  8. UM: X-2 finally perfected it, and then they had to use real-time in XII. I love them all, but let's face it - real-time has no redeeming qualities.
  9. AnonyMan: I don't really prefer one other the other. But ATB was used in FFIX(My favorite), so my vote goes here
  10. Vito: Real Time = Active Time. I came across that revelation whilst watching the ATB meter in XII. It's the same thing only you choose the action THEN it counts down to your turn.
  11. Tragedian: I have a soft spot for the ATB because it gives me a bit more control than real time in my opinion and allows for more strategy. Real time is just chaos and it gets old after a while.
  12. Super Sephiroth: VII had it. Real time is great too, but I took a while to adapt to it, while it was easier to slip into turn based.
  13. Blykus 10:22, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  14. Adam mcduck: Nothing wrong with the other two, I just prefer this.
  15. TheRedMagus: Real time just annoyed me after a while. Plus it meant it took much longer to run away from fights for any particular reason.
  16. Auron B. Kaizer: Conditional Turn Based owns them all, but Active Time Battle is so much better than "Real Time Battle" that it makes me sick...sort of like BH in a way then.
  17. Terra_Homing: I really thought real time was rubbish, it pains me to say that ff X-2 had the best battle system but it did
  18. SanctielI like the turn based battle system and I hate real time cause I hate XII but ATB is the best because you gotta think quick.
  19. Saraija MerinasThe turn-based battle system is a classic to FF. Even though I liked XII's because I knew when 'I'm gonna get my ass kicked if I attack that feind!'
  20. Otens: I just couldn't pick so I put my vote in the middle voting column.
  21. CidTheFirst: Perfect balance between strategy and against the clock action.
  22. ChiefKakashi 18:27, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
  23. Firionklauser : what are rpgs without turn-based action? its a tried and tested formula. But the ATB gives it a little kick. Plus, in some games, no random battles work. But this is final fantasy! ATB owns all!
  24. Mr. Rojo: My favorite battle system was the one in Final Fantasy X-2, also I liked a lot FF VI to IX so I am going for ATB.
  25. Masamune: Turn-based is boring as hell. I distinctly remember putting down the controller in the middle of a fight in FFX and going and making myself a sandwich. Without pausing. Then I did the same in FFXII, which has the so-called "real time" battle system. The only fights that really got my blood boiling were in the games with the ATB system.
  26. Ameria: "Real time" is just a fancy looking version of ATB.
  27. Southgale: I agree Realtime is a fancy version of ATB. I can walk away from turn based and Real time but if I do that with ATB I am pritty much dead ,depending on in game information, without pausing.
  28. yamiza: I prefer ATB. Well, it is easier to escape in Real Time than in ATB ;)
  29. Lockhart: I'll go with ATB, but I don't really prefer one over the other. As long as the system works, it's fine with me.
  30. Lord Xale: I guess I like this battle system better connsidering that you can see when it's going to be your turn, plus you can just pause or go into another menu like the items menu, or themagic menu. So uh... Yeah... That's it. Visit my page if you like funny movies and/or Cactuars and/or Tonnberrys!
  31. I'd have to go with this one. I think Real time is annoying because you have no time to think. Vanishing Star
  32. Captain Darkblade- ATB FTW. Active Time Battles are easily the best option of the three. Imagine the scenario- FFVII, Safer Sephiroth casting SuperNova on the party. At least with active time, you have the option to prepare your counter attack. With real time, you can't do that. Also, FFVI, FFVII and FFIX are all ATB, and they are (in my opinion) the best games of the series.
  33. Gokus789 ATB was my favorite battle system. Even though it was turnbased it made you act before your enemies invisible time bar filled. So it made you feel moreinvolved in the game.
Anonymous Votes[edit source]
  1. My vote goes here since the Final Fantasy VIII was the one that made me like the series.
  2. Turn based --> no skills rly, Real Time --> boring
  3. Turn-Based is too slow, Real-Time leaves no room for strategy.
  4. Yumiko: Random battles are better for me. Real time was one of the reasons i didn't like XII. I didn't like that the action was chosen first and when you wanted to change it the time meter restarted again. Not good.
  5. ATB requires fast thinking and strategy.
  6. Rainacide - ATB FTW! Turn-base is too generic & not as exciting, & real-time takes away most of the strategy & fun FF was known for. All types of ATB pwns Turn-Based & Real-Time. FFX CTB was one of the best, even tho - there was no time at all in battle haha.
  7. too lazy to give a reason
  8. ATB is the best. Real time was too easy. And ive heard bad reviews of XII's system. ATB is the best.
  9. because atb IS final fantasy lol
  10. ATB is so much better coz summoning was way better using ATB and it was so pointless in Real Time. MrDarkside
  11. EmuMaster: I've always preferred the ATB. It was used really effectively all over the series.
  12. Even though I liked classic turn based and the new Real time. My first Final Fantasy was ATB enhanced so I grew up knowin that one the most.
  13. Turn-based and Real-Time was a bore for basically Turn-based>Real-Time>ATB. Turn-based made me dislike journeying in FF and FF2...and I didn't even finish FF2. Real-Time is great an all...looking at the scenery, and no random encounters. But you still have encounters because there were no accessories/armor that had a No Encounter effect like FF7-FF10-2. Also in Real-Time the walking/running was very took forever just through the Phon Coast and Tchita Uplands in FF12...I hated those locations the most. :/ ATB was more fun for FF10-2 and FF7. :]
  14. Dishy: ATB for the win.
  15. Secret Asian Man: Turn-based was boring, and Real-Time just made me really lazy. ATB is actually the most tactical out of all of the systems. Also the ATB Final Fantasy games were the ones that I liked most. Next would be Turn-based.
  16. My vote goes here because its what really made me like the final fantasy.
  17. ATB is the better system because turn based system was very slow and I never got the hang of Real Time.

Votes for Real Time[edit source]

  1. HexedTourney
  2. ATB iss just Turn-Based with a little time limit. And Turn Based is pretty boring. This was a step up. --BlueHighwind 02:37, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  3. I agree, ATB is taking turns with a time limit, RTB is what makes XII unique among FF, IV-X-2 were pretty much the same thing when it came to battles.-Gyromite
  4. Utopian Heretic I think the new battle system shown is XII was revolutionary compared to hit, wait wait wait, hit, wait wait wait, it actually gave it more of a realistic feeling.
  5. CoD Much better battle system.
  6. SCM I have to support XII's Active Dimension Battle on this one.
  7. High Summoner Ah. Though I have great respect for the other two as FF's "roots", Real Time made "Leveling Up" a dream and brought a greater sense of realism to the series.
  8. Dr. Crisp RTB is the best Battle System.
  9. Dark raven: Because random encounters are boring.
  10. It's the most fun out of the three.--Muchomas35 12:49, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  11. actiondan after playing 12.. then going back and playing other FF's and RPGs... you kinda want them all to have gambits!
  12. Shariii: Random encounters got too frustrating after a while. I like how you can see the enemies, avoi if ya like.. and XII gave you a lot more control which made it more realistic.
  13. Pablo618: I hate turn based and I had a dificult time deciding between ATB or real time, but I go with real time cause random encounters get annoying after a while, specially on long dungeons
  14. SeKaLoYa: I must say real time is more realistic, and thus more fun. It also creates more tension when you fight difficult enemies, instead of getting to wait until everyone's had their turn, and by the time it's your turn you've already had everything thought out. That's just not fun at all! I hope future FFs (if any) will keep the new system and bring more excitement to our gaming.
  15. Tex 02:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
  16. SmegHead: I prefer the ADB system of XII. Real-time battles kick ass!
  17. Active Demension Battle System. It just sounds cool. TBM
  18. Xahten: Though FFX is my favorite and I love the battle system from it, I cannot deny the genius of the new real time battle system. I have never really cared for the ATB. The only instance of it that I actually thoroughly enjoyed was FFX-2 (trigger happy was such a simple pleasure). I think that the Crisis Core system might fit here as well, and I enjoyed it's battle system as well (with the exception of the always annoying DMW and no way to control the camera in battle).
  19. Scottyboy4: makes you feel more involved.
  20. AvaGirl10Roses: Active was alright, but I love the effects in FFXII with Real Time, and I loved not having random encounters...
  21. dudutsai: Being a person that overtrained throughout many games, I found this system to be best. Instead of pressing O/X over and over again to kill the enemies, all I had to do was walk into them. Also, in a real fight (Espers, Marks, etc.) this was just as intense, if not more than the ATB system.
  22. Aleria: The most intense and fun.
  23. Genesis rhapsodos: Don't get me wrong, I like ATB, but ADB is just awesome, imagine a huge battle where your party is running through swarms of fighting imperials and resistance members! awwwww yeahhhh.
  24. DVardonir 10:42, 3 July 2008 (UTC): One of the reasns why I love FFXII.
  25. MissRora: Technically, FFXII's system could be considered a "ATB-Realtime Hybrid" but whatever. In reality, people don't wait their turn to hit each other.
  26. TacticAngel: Though FFXI is actually the first FF to use a real time system, I would have to say that Final Fantasy XII was the most innovative single player experience in RPGs in a long long time.
Anonymous Votes[edit source]

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

I notice my idea was completely ignored without comment. Somebody explain how this is better. Yes, I am pouting. Deal. --BlueHighwind 02:33, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

What idea? --TacticAngel 03:02, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

What's this? AnonyMan and the 7th Chaos Esper agree on not just one, but two things in the same day? Glorious. A praise to all valkyries in Valhalla's halls. We shall drink and be merry for this week. ChaosEsperVII 1:35 AM June 27, 2008

Haha, no one likes the turn-based system. Dark raven 16:05, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if there will be any votes at all for it~? ^^; -Yumino 16:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Does the CTB system in X count as turn based? Draga

Same Question as Draga. Skoot85

Pablo618:guys, I actually don't hate Turn based, but it the one I like the less

Leon5550:Sure Turn Based is old, like FFI. but like FFI, its the one that started it all and we have to pay them the respect they deserves. Respect ur elders.

MissRora: Real Time? Seriously? FFXII had more of a "Real Time-ATB Hybrid" or something. Seriously, Real Time is Kingdom Hearts. Get it right! >.<

HighSummoner According to the directors who made the battle system (you can find it on the bonus disc if you bought the collector's edition) FFXII uses real time... Just saying.

Laguna v. Jecht[edit source]

40 to 31½
Now he're something we can all pretend to care about; if you were a bizarre, almost father-like figure from the past, would you rather be a part of a three stooges allusion or do you prefer the shirtless tribal look?

Votes for Laguna[edit source]

  1. Faethin: A hero with a heart. And his theme by the Black Mages is awesome.
  2. Yumino: Laguna was wonderful~
  3. Gyromite: Though i like Jecht more, Laguna was much nicer. The only reseon he didnt involve himself in Squalls life is because he never knew Raine was pregnant. Jecht always treated Tidus like trash, and he caused Tidus to have a horrible childhood.
  4. UM: I couldn't care less about these two, so...Squall > Tidus. Enough said.
  5. AnonyMan: Laguna is so far and a way a better character than Jecht, he's very likable, funny, etc. VIII's 3 Stooges>>>X's. They also aren't dead. Though for some reason Laguna seems like a very Love/hate character, doesn't make sense to me.
  6. Rydiaofmist: I found Laguna's awkwardness endearing.
  7. Tragedian: I like Laguna much more. I may one of the few who enjoyed his side stories during the game.
  8. Blykus 10:22, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  9. Chocobo Knight: I liked them both, but I only liked Jecht later on in the game. However Laguna was great from the first moment you see him. But I thought of another parellel between these two...they are both scene in dreams a lot. Tidus remembers his father in some of his dreams, and Laguna and his past appear to Squall and co. in their dreams thanks to Ellone.
  10. Adam mcduck: Jecht was dull. Enough said.
  11. RenzokukenXIV: I love Laguna, even though he is a complete idiot. But he makes things interesting, more so than Jecht.
  12. --High Summoner 16:02, 27 June 2008 (UTC)Jecht was a bit of a jerk. (I know it's not his fault, he was dreamt that way) At least Laguna was a pretty nice guy. In my estimation, absentee father beats the verbally abusive one.
  13. User:VulpineNinja: Although I dislike the idea that he goes for another woman, I'll vote for him because he's like FFVIII's comic relief. He sealed Adel just like that. And he is the PRESIDENT of Esthar. "A pen is mightier than a sword" QFT!
  14. Maverick Riot: I just liked him more. Let's face it... no matter how much people like him, Jecht was a jerk.
  15. Saraija Merinas: X was the first FF game I played and I remember thinking 'Why the heck is Jecht walking around Gagazet with no shirt on? Laguna is just awesome(and completely adorable) He also has a machine gun!!!! wooot!! Desperado!!!
  16. SeKaLoYa: Laguna's a way better character and more developed. Jecht us just sort of..there. Laguna's goofiness and lack of aptitude for women is probably the funniest thing in the game.
  17. Theentertainer: Someone had to father Squall. Just look at how Tidus turned out.
  18. Zero (0)
  19. Skoot85:SOUL(He has soul and is cooler[jecht has some soul])
  20. Mr. Rojo: Laguna was cool. He was a great fighter, funny and a nice person. Also Squall is so much better than Tidus.
  21. Ameria:Laguna was a very loveable character. I really liked the flash-back parts of the game too.
  22. BoredFreakTribal: Laguna is a little bit of a wimp, but you don't really see Jecht fight at all in FFX, so I'd say Laguna would win, considering he was in wars and gaurded towns, he is definately trained!
  23. Lockhart: I'm a huge Laguna fan. He's the best character in FFVIII. That's not saying much though.
  24. Netherith: Father of Squall but then this is expected of me...
  25. Aleria: Because, as we've already proved, VIII is better than X.
  26. I hated Jecht, pure and simple. He was annoying and his voice made me cringe, even though he DID make Tidus cry. Vanishing Star
  27. Born from Darkness: He has a kick ass limit break. 'Nuff said.
  28. TacticAngel: Believe it or not, this is me voting for someone from FFVIII.
Anonymous Votes[edit source]
  1. Bottom line, both of them are stupid. But since Laguna is in FF VIII (My favorite), Im gonna give him 51%, while the gigantic whale (What? He became sin ._.) gets 49%. Laguna wins for me then. Barely. ._.
  2. Let's see... Should I vote for Laguna; who has been a soldier, guardian, traveller, journalist AND a president of a futuristic city of magnificence, OR should I vote for Jecht; some sportsman who became nothing more than an overgrown Fiend? Hard decision, I think not.
  3. "LAGUNA LAGUNA!" One of my favorite Final Fantasy characters. I enjoyed his theme music so much, and had MORE fun fighting as him then Squall. Jecht is awesome too, but not as awesome as Laguna. He’s a goofball, and well, just a fun person to be around. Oh that and he started a traffic jam in the middle of Deling City, that was great!
  4. EmuMaster: If nothing else, Laguna has a really nice theme song. Jecht is just kinda annoying.
  5. Laguna has a better personality than Jeht
  6. Drunk mental abuser or nice guy in charge of a continent who was unawares that he had a son?
  7. Laguna wasn't a tool.

Votes for Jecht[edit source]

  1. His Dissidia artwork is cool. HexedTourney
  2. He's got the Sublimely Magnificent Jecht Shot Mark III -Henryacores 02:37, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  3. Did anybody like Laguna? Does anybody not like Jecht? --BlueHighwind 02:38, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  4. I kinda liked Laguna's funky battle music but he sucked as a father. Leaving Squall to be president of a city? At least Jecht tried to toughen up Tidus. "All you do is cry." Oh and who wouldn't want that tatoo on their freakin chest? Jecht is roxxor to the max. --ChaosEsperVII
  5. Jecht would win with his giant sword, and I think he is SO awesome because he is the best mercenary. I also have to edit my vote, becuase i had this ideaabout making a prequel to FFX called FFbefore X or FF minus X something like that anyways, if you like it, vote on my userpage!! Zack fair 007
  6. MK: while Laguna's son>Jecht's son, Jecht beat his kid which is better than what Laguna did. Now if only he stayed around a little longer, Tidus would more more of a man instead of the half baked pussy he is now. (Way to go Auron)
  7. Jecht is badass.--Oranejo 03:55, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  8. Vito: Jecht.
  9. ChaserBlue: Jecht is AWESOME XD It was weird...I sued to hate him for how he treated Tidus, but now I like them both equally hehe
  10. OtOcon^_- 05:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  11. SCM DUH!!!!!
  12. Super Sephiroth: Jecht narrowly beats Laguna, as Laguna only ended up president of an isolated country nobody cares about, whereas Jecht, despite being dreamt up, became the most powerful fiend in the whole of Spira. And Jecht is playable in Dissidia.
  13. Dark raven He's badass, Laguna isn't.
  14. He's like a loud drunken Auron, which makes him super badass. At least thats how I think of him.--Muchomas35 12:51, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  15. Kuroari1307 14:50, 27 June 2008 (UTC): So what if he is a jack-ass. He only wanted what was best for Tidus, regardless of how he seemed to be a jerk to his son. What he did, saving Spira via the final aeon, was a very memorable deed. He's got my vote.
  16. Hyacynth: Probably the only time I'll go with a fanservice vote.
  17. LordofCheese: Sir Jecht! Yeah!
  18. Zephyrus11: Shoopuff killer!
  19. actiondan: Kinda liked Laguna.. shone in a shite game.. YET.. Jecht wins.. he's just cooler..
  20. Terra_Homing: Anyone who makes Tidus cry is OK with me...
  21. Pablo618:Cause Jecht is awesome
  22. Draga:Jecht is better, due to his drunken shoopuf attacking and the Jecht Shot.
  23. SanctielYeah, Jecht is better.
  24. Tex 02:48, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
  25. SmegHead: Laguna being revealed as the president of Esthar was one of the reasons the story in the second half of VIII went insane. The guy hid Esthar away from the world for 20 years and didn't even leave once to find Ellone and see if she was safe??? At least Tidus' loathing of Jecht is what made him into a man (even a whiny one).
  26. Otens:
  27. CidTheFirst:Jecht makes up for the excessive feminity of Seymour as a villain and who doesn't like a cantankerous, drunken rogue?
  28. ChiefKakashi: Jecht is a badass.
  29. Masamune: Jecht is the only one in FFX to point out what a whiny bitch Tidus is. And Tidus is his own son. You gotta give him props.
  30. Xahten: Though he came off as a jerk at first, he redeemed himself in the end by sacrificing himself to free Spira of the menace Sin and at the price of his own home town and all its inhabitants.
  31. Scottyboy: Cool tatoo
  32. AvaGirl: Vote.
  33. dudutsai: Laguna wasn't bad, I actually liked him. He also made me laugh more than a few times. But in the end Jecht wins for making Tidus cry then laughing at him.
  34. MissRora: Sorry, must vote for the drunken weirdo.
Anonymous Votes[edit source]
  1. ...
  2. Yumiko:Er I pick the guy who sacrificed himself to save Spira!
  3. I vote the guy who killed, or at least attacked, a Shoopuff. God I hate Shoopuffs.
  4. Go, Samurai Jecht!
  5. Jecht ftw!
  6. He gets drunk and has a good time but has a good soul somewhere in there :)
  7. Jecht
  8. Laguna would try, Laguna would fail, and Jecht would shit on his world
  9. Look I dislike Jecht, due to personal reasons of me relating to Tidus's character. Unfortunately, Laguna would lose in this fight because Jecht is or was the Final Aeon. Even though he wasn't exactly a challenging big boss fight in gameplay...He'll just win, and he's dead. So Jecht won't be the only ghost around 'ere. How can you fight and win against a dead person who is or was the Final Aeon...!? Well it's a popularity contest, but despite the fact...I'm voting on their overall abilities and strength. Poor Laguna. :[
  10. Rainacide - Jecht is just to filty! FTW!! Laguna is so pansy like, Jecht was a savage, he died knowing what he died for & became one of the antagonist of FFX.
  11. Dishy: He has the most badass boss theme ever, and he was the only one to know how much of a whiny little bitch Tidus really is.
  12. Jecht kicks ass. PERIOD. Laguna is wimpy in comparison. Solox 04:05, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Weird thought: How is Laguna likable? He might be a nice guy, but he's still a loser. Much like Tidus in an odd way. Now Jecht, he's a cool dude. He might be a bit of a jerk, but who would you rather hang with? A cool jerk, or a nice loser? I think this one is pretty obvious. Nice losers are only there to make you look better in comparison, and so that you can manipulate and abuse the Hell out of their naivety. Maybe that's what you people want in freinds, but I'm not that cold. --BlueHighwind 18:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Laguna's not a loser(That's Squall at first)...far from it. And he's not too naive, clumsy, yes. He's got everything better than Jecht. Ah, well. Laguna's still a extremely love/hate character, like lots of things in FFVIII. --AnonyMan 20:00, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
What does Laguna have better than Jecht? I can't find anything. Looks? No, Laguna looks exactly like what's-her-name? (that chick from Speed), and she never "did it" for me. Jecht is clearly a male, and the whole design is just badass. Power? No, Laguna was a grunt. Jecht was Sin, practically immortal. Badassness? Not even a competition. Game? FFX kills that disaster called FFVIII. Voice? Laguna has none, Jecht's voice actor was one of the few that worked in that game. Graphics? FFX is far better looking than FFVIII. Weapon? Jecht's sword was really cool looking, Laguna just had a boring old machine gun. Way with the Ladies? Laguna has none, Jecht had a wife and kid. Sports? Please. Charm? No competition. Name? How do you even say "Laguna"? It sounds like a cheap resort in the Caribbean. "Jecht" is a tough name. Hard "J" and "CH" with a "T" sound. Can't get manlier than that. Fellow party members? Kiros and Ward are two idiots, while Jecht was traveling with AURON and a ridiculously dress Summoner. Oh, you got me on Braska, but Auron beats it. Kid? Alright, Squall is better than Tidus. But that wasn't Jecht's fault. Jecht doesn't seem to be able to stand Tidus either. Oh, don't get me wrong, he loves the kid, but I'm saying that Jecht does not like him. Jecht wins, Laguna loses. Simple. --BlueHighwind 00:15, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
BH, "Sandra Bullock" is the name your looking for. ChaosEsperVII 8:41, June 28 2008
And "Blue" or "BlueHighwind" is the name you're looking for. I hate "BH". --BlueHighwind 00:42, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Indeed. ChaosEsperVII 9:11, June 28 2008
I would have gone with "Jackass", personally. But that's just me! --Blykus 09:09, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Alright, Jecht had a wife and Kid. Uh, and Laguna didn't? Sure he wasn't married, but if things hadn't turned out like they did, he would'e been anyway. And he had a love interest before that. So Laguna must be charming enough. Aside from the wierd hair, Laguna defeinitely looks male, he's not scruffy. And you want to talk Badass, how about helping end an evil sorceress' rule over a country and becoming said country's president? With 2 dude who are not only cooler than Jecht's buddies but they lived in the end. Only bad thing he did was not being around but that wasn't his fault and Squall got better. VIII's got flaws, but it's not crap. --AnonyMan 12:29, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
What are you talking about? That one date with that chick in that city? He fell asleep - when he was talking! And he was in her room! How do you do that? Charming indeed. And you are not trying to pass the bullshit that Ward - doo-ragged faux Dragoon, and Kiros - weird dude with terrible posture, are both cooler than Auron. You are not trying to do it. If you are then this is thing is over. I'm not fighting with somebody who doesn't even know which way is up.--BlueHighwind 12:59, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Anonyman... Laguna did got married (with Raine). So Jecht may be 'manlier' than Laguna. But Laguna is a gentleman.--VN
Hey, Jecht didn't leave Tidus's mother nothing. He sent Auron over there. That's the second best thing a husband can do for a woman. The best would be to send Balthier. =) (No, I will never take this seriously). --BlueHighwind 13:21, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Hmm...I am mistakened indeed, they were married before he left and she died. Thanks for that correction. Anyway on that one date she fell deeply in love with him, funny awkward antics aside. They would have gotten married, he's not your James Bond charmer but that's not his style. I guess this is over then, I'm sorry I don't find some popular old loser as "godly" as you do. Kiros and Ward a litte "Weird" but they've good personalities and are cool people. --AnonyMan 17:21, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
And we didn't really see Braska & co in action so how can we judge which gang is goofier? ;D --VN
Because it would be really hard for any team to be goofier than Laguna, Kiros, and Ward. Since you think them all to be such great characters. Let me ask you one thing. Name one personality trait of either Kiros or Ward. Then try to name another. I want to you explain the many multi-dimensional complexities of those guys. Then remember that Auron is a Knight, Braska is a Summoner and possibly another type of Mage, and Jecht is also a swordsman (probably with abilities similair to Tidus). They traveled Spira and defeated all its monsters. They even defeated Sin, remember? Sin came back, but they did beat him. --BlueHighwind 12:37, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
You got me there, I don't think there's any FF team goofier than those 3(except for maybe VIII's Biggs and Wedge), but that's part of what makes them cool. Maybe Kiros and Ward aren't EXTREMELY deep but you make it sound like they're as vapid as the Light Warriors. Kiros is your level-headed, "big brother" of the group(you'd think he'd be an asshole due to how he fights, looks and moves called "Blood Pain), Ward's your nice, big impoisng guy. You keep acting like they didn't do anything, they may have had more misadventures but they have accomplishments just as big as being a part of the Summoners Pilgrimage without as bad an ending to it. --AnonyMan 16:34, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I will admit that the comparison is not fair. One team is really cool, but the other is really bad. But the world isn't fair, and we have to live in it. --BlueHighwind 16:38, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
That's true, and the fact that everyone on the bad team is dead is proof of that. --AnonyMan 20:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
The only reason that Laguna didn't get his men killed when the Easterian Army had them surrounded on that cliff following the Technicolor Dream Dungeon was a Contrivance of the Plot. Nobody has any right to survive that fall... unless I like them. --BlueHighwind 21:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
That cliff was high but not THAT high. They'd have to have been total wimps to die from it. They're trained warriors, the fact they were hurt before they jumped and all managed to live is a testment to their strength. --AnonyMan 01:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not going to split hairs with high the fucking cliff was. Okay? It was "THAT" high. Let's move on. They were woefully incompetent soldiers who lacked disapline or organization. They abandoned their posts to go clubbing (and failed to pick up any chicks at all). Who can be blamed up their C.O., Laguna? --BlueHighwind 02:08, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, alright, they're fairly bad exaples of model sodliers, but it was entertaining(Picking up chicks is Irvine's deal). --AnonyMan 13:33, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Sigh. I would like to point out that the two characters are from two totally different genres in relation to story-type. Laguna is in the Romance-War genre while Jecht was in the Sports-Epic genre. Comparing the two is really like comparing a professional footballer to a professional ballete dancer, each one has good and bad points that depend entirely on the viewers' own preferences. Netherith 06:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Terra v. Aeris[edit source]

Terra V.jpg
35½ to 35½
This fight needs no explanation. Despite any parallels they may actually hold in game, the fact is they are two of the most beloved female protagonists in Final Fantasy.

Votes for Terra[edit source]

  1. She's an Esper, and Madeen's daughter, that makes for it.-Henryacores 02:37, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  2. Faethin <3 TERRA
  3. Gyromite: Terra is awesome. She's an Esper, and she killed 40 of the Empires best people im a minute! Aeris was killed by mama's boy Sephiroth, and she was useless before that anyway.
  4. I like Aeris, but Terra is my favorite female character from the entire series.--Oranejo 03:54, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  5. AnonyMan:FFVI is a great game, but she's a bland character(Main status is debatable). However, unlike Aeris, you can complete the game without her. Wait, Aeris is actually the same. Ok, Terra's gets my vote because the Magiteck Armor was cool.
  6. Vito: Terra. As far as I can tell, Aeris could have lived and STILL saved the world with Holy. Aeris=Total fail
  7. OtOcon^_- 05:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  8. Dark raven: I don't like pink.
  9. actiondan: Terra Terra Terra.. Aeris bored me
  10. Adam mcduck: A great main character. One of the, if not the, best.
  11. RenzokukenXIV: I hate Aeris...
  12. --High Summoner 16:16, 27 June 2008 (UTC) Such a hard choice... Dicey at best. I'll have to choose Terra. She's living in a world in which she can find no place. She also has to give up a part of herself, her identity, in order to save the world. That would be tough for anyone.
  13. VN: because i hate Aeris.
  14. -Reivax-: Aeris was easily the most annoying character in FFVII for me, so this is an easy choice.
  15. Hyacynth: How is this even a question?
  16. Terra_Homing: She's Madeen's daughter!
  17. Pablo618:Terra is cool but I don't know much of aeris
  18. Draga: Terra is my choice as though Aeris is hot, Terra is HALF F-ING ESPER!!! Plus I never played VII...
  19. SmegHead: Better character, better backstory. By the end of my first playthrough of VII I had forgotten all about Aeris, but Terra was still fighting on the frontlines.
  20. Otens: I like Terra. That Simple.
  21. Chaltier: As what 8bit_BM said ,I also ditch her for Celes cause like Celes more than Terra,but i don't like Aeris (not hate Aeris).
  22. Theentertainer: Much love for Terra
  23. Pikmin Master: I don't like Terra. In fact, I liked Aeris more. However, in terms of a fight, it is way to obvious. Plus, Terra (and Shiva) is the reason why I would like an Esper form. (I've already figured that part out.)
  24. RowdyCMoore: Let's see, Terra uses White and Black magic, and she can wield Ultima Weapon and Ragnarok. Plus, she's smart enough to brush off Edgar's lecherous advances while Aeris fawns over a guy who may not even like girls.
  25. Mr. Rojo: Terra was amazing, great character and skills. She would win easy, she is an esper, has Ultima Sword and use black and white magic, she is cool. I like Aerith, but she isn't that great. She died and also she doesn't has power over the world, she can only cast Holy and by the way Holy failed to save the world, was the world itself using Lifestream.
  26. Kefka Palazzo: Excuse me. Aeris is a flower girl. Terra is HALF ESPER! However, I HATE YOU.
  27. Xahten: I have never played FFVI (trying to find FF Anthology), but I recognize her as one of the best FF characters of all time. Aeris never was an appealing character to me. Besides, I've never seen anyone make purple flames look as good as she makes them look.
  28. dudutsai: Yes Terra is a bit annoying, but Aeris was completely ruined after FFVII, and overall she is worse.
  29. Aeris equips Rods that do little damage. Terra equips swords that do more damage than a stupid rod. Terra can turn into an Esper, which makes her cooler as well. Vanishing Star
  30. Shinryu: I think Terra is more versatile that Aeris, because she can do serious damage with magic, but also can do decent damage phisically with swords (some of them boost her magic, making her more deadly), and if you want more pwnage, you have her Esper form.
Anonymous Votes[edit source]
  1. Terra is half-Esper, she can fly, worked as a weapon for an evil empire (albeit unwillingly), witnessed the world basically turn into hell, she is the last person able to use natural magic, and she managed to survive until the final fight! How many things has Aeris done like this? All Aeris did was grow flowers, run off to save the world herself (great plan, by the way), and get herself killed. Sure, she saved the world by doing so, but she left it until last minute to summon Holy!
  2. Terra has strength and amazing magic. She is half esper. Aeris can equip low power materia and can heal with wind. Who would win
  3. She didn't die like a punk, and wasn't a tease. Plus, Aeirs aint hot enough to be a white mage. Terra was a tank.
  4. EmuMaster: Terra. Dear god Terra.
  5. Terra is a esper. Esper!
  6. Terra uses balck and white magic plus she is an Esper. Aeris needs materia to make her strong.
  7. No contest. Terra is awesome in more ways then a person has time to write about.
  8. I felt more for Terra than Aerith. The other day I was playing and I got thru the part where Aerith dies, I did not care that much because, I barely ever used her, Terra on the other hand...I used the most.
  9. Rainacide - TERRA FOR THE WIN! One of the more memorable heroins of the FF games, being one of the first female ones. Terra just rules even tho you use her for half the game it's still better than using Aeris for one disc. Terra doesn't die, she becomes an Esper...Aeris just gets shanked up :X
  10. I've never playedFFVI, but I know she is half-Esper. So Half-Esper>Half Cetra...Terra wins, no contest...and she didn't die.
  11. Terra was a great lead character.

Votes for Aeris[edit source]

  1. Here's some tough truth for you Space Monkies. Terra is whiney. Yeah. I said it. Its all game with her: "I can't feel love", bullshit. Who cares? Now as for Aeris, she never complains once. And she got murdered! --BlueHighwind 02:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  2. You're right about that Blue. Aeris took the sword through the back and died a champ. Who cares if Terra's an esper, Aeris can control the goddamn planet. --ChaosEsperVII
  3. Yumino: The flower girl~
  4. Zack fair 007Aeris all the way.She is the most beautiful final fantasy character. Especially in FFVII AC
  5. Utopian Heretic Aerith(not s) was much better than Terra, and (Yes I will liekly get yelled at) is one of the hottest characters from the FF Universe.
  6. UM: And nobody even said anything yet about how great her theme is.
  7. SCM
  8. Tragedian: I love Terra. She's definitely awesome, but FF7 was, and still is, my favorite and Aeris is just amazing and adorable. Wall Market is the best part of the game because of her.
  9. Super Sephiroth: I voted against Aeris last time, she wins this time and also, Terra (along with a large amount of FFVI) sucked balls.
  10. Blykus 10:22, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  11. This is for CC Arieth. I think she's the hottest of the Arieths.--Muchomas35 12:52, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  12. Rydiaofmist: I hope that this turns out to be a close match because they are both great characters.
  13. 8bit_BlackMage: This is rather odd, considering I have played VI and not VII, but I'm voting for Aeris on just what I've heard about her. Terra was never a "lead" in my opinion, I ditched her for Celes ASAP. The "Morph" ability is useless, why waste a turn going into Esper form when you can just Dualcast Ultima?
  14. HollyP When Aeris died, my little eight year old world was devastated. She was just so sweet :(
  15. SeKaLoYa: Aeris is so awesome!! (and beautiful) She's the only one left from a forgotten civilization, and she has power over the entire Planet!! How much cooler can she get? (other than having more realistic physical features in the movie)
  16. Tex 02:49, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
  17. stnapknah: terra is laaaaaaaame
  18. CidTheFirst: Aeris just added so much to FFVII.
  19. ChiefKakashi: She's losing right now...
  20. Shariii: Simply because she had Zack AND Cloud interested in her.. who wouldnt want that? Aside from that, I dont really like the girl, but it's a good enough reason for me.
  21. Skoot85: Aeris was such the game. (even though terra was a pretty cool character.) Aeris is awesome.
  22. Firionklauser: Pity vote. Terra owns! Although the character did not go in the direction i would've liked, Terra was still solid. Although I like Aeris too, she's just not as good as Terra. Magitek Armor! Peace!
  23. Sora G. Strife: Oh come on. It's in my username, discussed in my userpage.
  24. Masamune: The world is in imminent danger of destruction. Do you a) help the villain when he swears he's turned over a new leaf, then shut yourself up with a bunch of orphans to try and hide from your mistake, or b) kick the villain's butt from beyond the grave? Yeah, I thought so.
  25. BoredFreakTribal: Aeris is better. I just like her more.
  26. Lockhart: I have a new found respect for Aerith after Crisis Core.
  27. AvaGirl: Aeris owns. And FFVII rocks FFVI.
  28. Drake Clawfang: While I prefer Terra slightly more to Aeris, both of them are awesome. As stated in the peanut gallery, I'm tired of people voting against Aeris just because she dies. So I'm changing my vote to spite them.
  29. MissRora: She saved the planet while she was dead. Must give her points for that.
  30. Ajox: The moment aeris dies was what made FFVII such a great game
  31. Shadowjomi: Aeris saved the planet almost by herself!!!
  32. TacticAngel
Anonymous Votes[edit source]
  1. Gotta give the flower girl some love.
  2. ...
  3. Yumiko: I agree with the user vote about her theme. Anyways Aerith is sweet and innocent and she saved the planet! Yeah that is all. :)
  4. Aerith is pretty cool.
  5. Aeris has sass - the good kind!
  6. I choose her because she has done more to make people feel more for their characters than anyone else. Not many people recall playing VI but VII pushed the genre on to a more massive audience and everyone was: OMG!!! WTF!!! Aerith... Everywhere. Not that many people (unless they have either been fans from the begining or have gone bak and played VI) mention Terra a lot.
  7. Aerith was beautiful and lovely. She had one of the most developed and awesome personalities and saved the world! She was my favourite character in FFVII and I was really sad when she died. :( Terra is a good character and it's difficult, but I have to say that Aerith I prefer~<!

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Nice work, on whomever did the description for the fight. Two half-breed mistresses of magic with the responsibility of saving the world. And they've both got the red/pink thing going on... Drake Clawfang 04:20, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

And BH, you wake up with no memories, get pulled into a war where you have no idea what's going on on top of that, and then find out you're the product of a one-nigher between a mortal woman and a magical demi-god that could make heads explode, and that the entire fate of the world hinges on you talking dad's friends into fighting for you. Oh, and then watch the world be destroyed and wake up with all your friends, as far as you know, dead. See how well you take it. Drake Clawfang 04:22, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
No Terra takes all that with stride. My problem is this is annoying subplot about how she can't "feel love". For one, the idea of something fundamental being lost due to a lack of emotions has been explored time and time again in about a million forms of Sci-Fi (usually involving a robot or something). Its old now. I'm sick of this thing. And FFVI probably does it the worst out of them all. You can't really do a truly emotional story in 2D, no matter how good the music is. Weirdly, Terra stops complaining once the world ends. Maybe she just needed more suffering to knock the stuffing out of her. --BlueHighwind 12:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
"You can't do a truly emotional story in 2D"? BH, I just lost whatever respect for you I once had. Graphical limitations have absolutely nothing to do with storyline and to say something like that is to shit on IV, VI, and every other 2D game in existence. Drake Clawfang 17:12, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, but it all just comes off as silly as cartoony to me. And no Final Fantasy game has had a storyline great enough to surpace the limitations of 2D visuals. I don't think any of have even come close. Not even FFVII could work there. --BlueHighwind 17:17, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, Blue I pretty much lost all my respect for you too and I just found out your a pretty big jerk after reading a lot of your comments. But I guess I should've known earlier huh? Drake, you definitely went up a lot in regards to my respect towards others. --Bartz235
That hurt. Haven't you already figured out that this is a game? A competition of who can continue to argue about stupid bullshit before the other guy just gets sick of the nonsense and gives up. There is no point to playing if you're not out to win. This is stricty business. Which comment was it in particular? The Laguna battles? This one? I'm sure there's enough to offend everybody in Santa Highwind's bag of tricks. --BlueHighwind 00:24, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Vote #6 is actually quite right. Aerith's Theme is beautiful, easily one of my favorite pieces of music in FF. Of course, I can say the exactly same thing about Terra's Theme. -Faethin 05:04, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Seconded, but I reiterate that it is all the same, inspired by the Aria. Drake Clawfang 05:06, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I hate Aeris but i love her theme. But Terra's theme is a lot more touching, especially the orchestra version. --VN

Seriously people? the only excuse for hating Aerith is that she died? At least she was still active even after dying. Oh btw #7, her death brought her to the Lifestream, which made her much more powerful. Her dying was essential to saving the planet. ChaosEsperVII 1:31 AM June 27, 2008

That's just the thing though, she didn't, Holy did. And how could dying and becoming a part of the Lifestream, which if I remember correctly Sephiroth was not only going to absorb making HIM even more powerful, but he also was the reason Holy wasn't working in the first place, make Aeris more powerful? Vito
Aeris didn't die by choice, she died because Sephiroth killed her. It wasn't a sacrifice, it was a murder. If Sephiroth wants you dead, he'll make you dead. Maybe not physically but you'll be left dead inside (Cloud never was the same after FFVII). Aeris might have known that by summoning Holy she was incurring the wrath of Sephiroth, but she died accomplishing something in the end. --BlueHighwind 18:37, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
All the same, Holy was still unable to stop meteor, so Aeris used the Lifestream since she is a part of it to help Holy finish the job. Yes she did not die by choice, but if she was still alive, no one would have stopped Meteor. ChaosEsperVII 2:53 PM June 27, 2008
Aeris or not, the Lifestream would've done that anyways, that's what Seph was counting on, remember?Vito
The Lifestream's purpose was to heal the wounds of the planet. Sephiroth was counting on it to emerge after Meteor crashed. Aeris manipulated the Lifestream to show up early to assist Holy in it's effort to stop Meteor. Again, if Aeris was not dead, the Lifestream would have waited for Meteor to strike the planet. ChaosEsperVII 3:12 PM June 27, 2008
But isn't Holy also the physical manifestation of the Lifestream? Yes. So wouldn't it be logical that the Lifestream help itself? Vito
Where did you come up with that? What game did you play? You obviously don't know what your talking about. Holy is the ultimate white magic. Materia calls upon the wisdom of the Ancients to manipulate nature. The Lifestream is a collection of dead people's souls that circle the planet and act as it's life force. They are not related in any way. ChaosEsperVII 7:32 PM June 27, 2008
Several points against you: 1: Manipulate nature. This would lead one to assume that even the Lifestream itself can be controlled by materia. 2: Materia = Physical vessel for which the knowlage, provided by dead people, is given to use via manufacturing process of raw Mako which IS the Lifestream. 3: Didn't Bugenhagen say that the Planet, not us mind you the Planet, would decide how Holy reacted to Meteor, humanity, etc, etc. This would imply that the Planet, lifestream etc, is in control of Holy and therefore can be assumed that Holy=Lifestream to some (Possibly large) degree. And Riddle me this, how can Aeris take all the credit for "manipulating the lifestream" when she's NOT the only one there? Kinda reminds me of the one issue of X-Men when Rogue absorbed over 1 billion minds and was totally freaking out and couldn't even tell who SHE was. That's how I imagine the lifestream is. Point is, Aeris couldn't POSSIBLY have been the only one causing the Lifestream to do what it did.Vito
You misunderstand. Materia does not use the knowledge of dead people, it uses the knowledge of the Ancients, which happen to be extinct. Magic that you see is merely a metaphysical representation of physical nature. Plus, if you read "Maiden Who Travels the Planet", it states that Aeris was in control of the Lifestream. It says that her conscience was the only one that remained intact after death. While she is in the Lifestream she soothes the consciences of all the people and when the time comes, she unites all of them to bring forth the Lifestream to defeat Meteor. So Aerith controls the Lifestream. ChaosEsperVII 9:37 PM June 27, 2008
Well, I haven't had a chance to read it, but perhaps I shall. That being said, I concede to defeat. Good show. When next we meet, I shall be much more informed. Vito
Very well, The 7th Chaos Esper looks forward to that day, for he has decreed you a most worthy opponent. ChaosEsperVII 10:58 PM June 27, 2008

Yumiko: Um i noticed a vote for terra that said they hated Aerith. At least state a reason why you hated her. Jeez. >:(

Sorry about that, I couldn't find words to describe why. I hate her for being an annoying flirt to Cloud. First she said she is 'used' to some action adventures but she's rather slow when it comes to climbing roofs, then she sort of 'poof' in front of Cloud when he means to leave her at her house, then she shamelessly asks Cait Sith to read their compatibility fortune. It's like trying to act cute but annoying. But Aeris in Crisis Core is a lot better person. Another reason why I vote for Terra is because of her character development and how her theme song relates to it (although she isn't exactly my favourite character) --VN

I would be ashamed to be in the company of such reasoning as has backed Terra so far. --TacticAngel 00:14, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'm serious, if I see one more vote for Terra citing Aeris' death as a reason to vote against her, I'm changing my vote. This is BS. Drake Clawfang 05:43, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Honestly I don't know why I bother some people just have stupid reasons for their votes (i.e. Aeris dying). And people still doubt her power. Before anyone dispute me, please read all the crap I just wrote and read Maiden who Travels the Planet. I'm talking to you Mr. Rojo. ChaosEsperVII 8:38 AM June 30, 2008
Anon #11 pushed me over the edge. Vote changed as per my earlier mini-rant. Drake Clawfang 16:31, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Hm, currently the vote is 38 to 33.5...if Aeris gets only two more registered votes, we'd have a tie. And for once I wouldn't mind that. Drake Clawfang 18:01, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that this fight is actually close. Even though I voted for Terra I was hoping that Aeris would not get pulverized. I am glad that it is/was close.--Oranejo 03:12, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Well if you want a tie, all you have to do is change your vote. :p...joking, natch. (PS - it's 38 to 34.5, ties are called at a 10% margin.) Drake Clawfang 03:26, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, seems someone decided to take it upon themselves to spam Aeris' anon vote with a half-dozen votes, and someone else did the same to Terra's. You two know who you are, shame on you. Both of these lovely ladies deserve a fair match, win or lose. And if they were here they'd both kick your asses for trying such a thing. Drake Clawfang 05:21, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
And taking a second look at the edit history, Aeris' last three registered voters all registered within 30 minutes of each other. Although both editted differently, I still cannot help but wonder. If this is indeed the same person using sockpuppets to give Aeris a hollow victory, I do hope they have the good conscience to come forward and remove their excess votes. Drake Clawfang 05:23, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

MissRora: Half-Esper? I'm thinking, some chick screwed Zodiark. At least Aeris doesn't conjure up any disturbing images. >.<

Actually, it was Maduin that was her Pappy. He's semi-human at least. Drake Clawfang 19:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Dr. Hojo v. Dr. Cid[edit source]

38½ to 27½
Mad scientists!

Votes for Dr. Hojo[edit source]

  1. I'm sorry, but the father of Sephiroth is a heartless bastard. He screwed Cloud, Zack, Vincent, Nanaki, Lucrecia, and so many people's lives over. Plus the guy sees everyone as mere test subjects. He is by far the most evilest mad scientist. Dr. Cid is bad but he was trying to help mankind. Hojo is somehow responsible for all the wrong in The Compilation of FFVII. Hojo just doesn't give a #$%& about you. And that's why we love him so. --ChaosEsperVII
  2. sephiroths badass gay homo father with a high voice beats some medieval english guy any day -Zack fair 007
  3. Hojo is probably my favorite minor villain. He is an absolutely terrible human being...but he could care less.--Oranejo 03:52, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  4. Utopian Heretic Hojo ftw. Cid didn't quite nearly ruin the entire planet.
  5. UM
  6. AnonyMan: I don't like VII, but Hojo wasn't as in as boring a story(Not neccessarily good, mind you).
  7. OtOcon^_- 05:31, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  8. Tragedian: If you remember Costa Del Sol, then you know that Hojo is a pimp. Where are the ladies fawning over Dr. Cid? Nowhere. Not to mention it's his fault the world was almost destroyed because of all of his actions. He fathered Sephiroth, who's birth killed Lucretia, which means he indirectly killed all of Kalm and Aeris. He made Vincent into a monster, drove Cloud insane with his experiments, and then he went even more nuts and turned into a huge creature before being blown up by Cloud and friends. He's bad@$$!
  9. Blykus 10:22, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  10. stnapknah: it's f****** hojo!!
  11. For setting in motion a great deal of the events that lead to the Compilation. Only a true villan could do such a thing.--Muchomas35 12:57, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  12. VN: He didn't 'father' Sephiroth but he did made him came to existence. And he's the source of all chaos in FFVII. Cid? He was brainwashed by Venat!
  13. Draga: Gotta go with Hojo. That laugh is creepy, man.
  14. Sanctiel Hojo on reviving Vincent: "IT'S ALIVE!!"
  15. Otens: To me the only respectable Villain in the game besides Rufus.
  16. Sora G. Strife: Waaaay more insane.
  17. Corrino Hojo, is one of the best characters ever in final fantasy history, considering I do no much like FFVII that is a big feat. He is the most intelligent person in FFVII, and hence he can see that he must act the way he does to futher himself . He may be slightly crazy, but usually as intelligence goes up so does insanity. Plus he is the major villian in FFVII, not sephiroth or anyone else, hell sephiroth wouldnt even be around if it were not for hojo, yet he continues to almost always escape danger.And he is not completely evil, if I recall he did have some feelings for lurencia, not alot but they were there. Additionally on a persoanl level it was this character which made me interested in Science when I was a young adult, and know I am a scientist. Hojo must win.
  18. Zenon the Silveryn Hojo creeps me out... But he's my second favorite villan and forth favorite character
  19. Captain Darkblade If you've played Dirge Of Cerberus, you'll know that Hojo's evil laugh is far superior to Cid's.
  20. Genesis rhapsodos: Hojo takes the evil cake dood, he is responsible for the world nearly being screwed over in FFVII, Crisis Core, Advent Children, and Dirge of Cerberus either directly or by extension. That's 4 times he's nearly screwed the world over and if the secret ending of Dirge of Cerberus told us anything it's that his count is going up to 5. Cloud must be getting sick of this crap.
  21. Masamune: I hate Hojo after DoC, and I always liked Dr. Cid, but I gotta vote over here because the votes are just SO, DAMN, FUNNY!
  22. TacticAngel: Hojo was a legitimate badguy. I am not sure the same can be said of Dr. Cidufus.
Anonymous Votes[edit source]
  1. Just look at the other Cid's picture. That pose is scary. Nuff said.
  2. Hojo was the most evil character of FFVII aside from Jenova who wasnt even human; he created the problems that were involved in the main storyline and damnit I loved the way he walked around; Cid is nothing but a clone of his brilliance
  3. HOJO!!!
  4. Hojo is the reason why Final Fantasy 7 happened. Enough said.
  5. Got to say, love them both. Though between the two, it’s not a hard decision, I prefer Hojo. I’m not sure what it is about him. He’s just a great villain, the kind you just love to hate, and the best mad scientist out of the two.
  6. Hojo pretty much was responsible for everything that happened in FFVII.
  7. Hojo is just pure malevolence and evil!! he has to win this hands down!
  8. Even though Kefka is the Ultimate evil, Hojo comes to a close 2nd.
  9. Hojo to me is more of a stereotypical Mad Scientist archtype compared to Dr. Cid's depth. But despite what I just said...Hojo's existence is strong enough to last after his death with a clever, last-minute plan explained in DoC, and being able to astral project himself into the most powerful beings on the planet. Compared to Hojo's exploits...Dr. Cid let go of his life for Vayne to carry on the goal to have "The reigns of history back into the hands of man." Dr. Cid is truly dead...while Hojo still clings on to his existence.
  10. Dishy: Hojo was far more of a bastard than Cid will ever be. Oh, and not to mention he screwed over almost every important character in the game, and then some. He's responsible for almost everything bad that happens in the whole damn compilation of FF7.
  11. Hojo

Votes for Dr. Cid[edit source]

  1. The fate of Ivalice back in Man's hands is alluring -Henryacores 02:38, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  2. This is the type of villain whom you know you can hang with, throw back some drinks, play some Super Smash Bros. Brawl with. And if he wins you can claim he's using Venat to cheat. --BlueHighwind 02:41, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  3. Yumino: "Cid believes that everything he does... is with mankind's best interest at heart."
  4. Gyromite: Dr. Cid is not only ther greatest Cid in FF, but he is also one of those villians thats so insane that their awesome, like Kefka. Hojo was just insane, at a sick level, Sephiroth would probably be a better man if Hojo wasnt a sick maniac.
  5. That sick loser Hojo tried to cross-breed Aeris with Red XIII. I will greatly enjoy slaughtering him on my second playthrough. Drake Clawfang
  6. Vito:Genetic Freak vs Death Ray...I know where my money's at!
  7. SCM Check my video archive. I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts...
  8. User:exdeath65 hojo was just crazy for nothing, this guy had a reason for being completely mad, and he was actually trying to do something right, only with a giant warship, who could not respect that.
  9. Super Sephiroth: Tiebreaker. Dr Cid was bad-ass. I would vote for Hojo (him being my father and all) but Balthier was awesome too. Cid was, however, a better, more fun and challenging boss than Hojo, who I whupped in 2 turns the first time, 3 the second, and Omnislashed his ass in the third.
  10. actiondan: Cid... Hojo was alright in 7.. but in Dirge.. DEAR GOD THAT VOICE ANNOYED ME... so Cid.. i dont get the fascination with him, but, better than Hojo
  11. Chocobo Knight: I like Doctor Cid. Didn't like Hojo...he was a creep. Why Lucrecia (I think I've spelt that wrong, apologies) had a child with him, God only knows...Him and the creators. Possibly
  12. Dark raven: I love his laugh.
  13. Adam mcduck: It's Cid gone bad, what's not to like.
  14. Rydiaofmist: Both are awesome. Hooray for mad scientists! But Cid appeals to me a little more than Hojo. He was the only villainous Cid in a Final Fantasy game. He also hung out with Venat, whom I was a huge fan of.
  15. Hyacynth: Cid just has more flair than Hojo. He was also my favorite antagonist in a long, long time. I wish HE was XII's final boss.
  16. Pablo618: Dr. Cid is by far the best character on FFXII! (Thou all the characters are awesome for me...)
  17. Saraija Merinas: CID!!! I love this guy!! He's one of my favorite Cids. (aside from Oglop Cid that is) Seriously this guy is a nutcase. Its nice to see a Cid as a villian. its a change. And I agree with actiondan Hojo's voice in DoC made me want to shoot something. Gimme your guns Valentine!!
  18. SeKaLoYa: I can't say Cid is cooler than Hojo, and both of them wanted to use a forbidden energy source and gain immense power!! MWahahahahahaaaa!!!! And Hojo basically raped Lucrecia, so actually Hojo can be considered a major antagonist as he is the cause of 2 catastrophes in the story (Sephiroth and Omega).
  19. "The reigns of history back in the hands of man." Tex 02:50, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
  20. SmegHead: Hojo was definitely more evil, but Cid is just batshit INSANE! Plus he has his own Esper, which you can then steal from him.
  21. Theentertainer: gotta go with Cid on this one. He's evil I like his goals better and until you know that he's actually talking to someone he seems borderline schizo. Gotta love that.
  22. CidTheFirst:This is a really tough call but Cidolfus is cool and absolutely nuts, Hojo is just not on the same level of lunacy.
  23. Hojo's kinda boring. --ChiefKakashi 18:23, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
  24. Shariii: Even though Hojo was mean to Lucrecia, so he gets big points.. (I hate Lucrecia.. especially in Dirge. She made Vincent whiney).. but then he loses them with his insane steriotypical voice.. which was indeed highly annoying. Not that any of it matters, because I'm going to have to go with Cidolfus! He was more than a little awesome, and he made me chuckle! *pats the insane lad on the head*
  25. --High Summoner 10:24, 29 June 2008 (UTC)The whole mad scientist partnering with one of the "gods" to change the flow of history, but in a distorted, evil way is an interesting angle; a reasonably noble motivation, but it's path of attainment is twisted indeed.
  26. Mr. Rojo: I don't like Hojo and the fight against Cid was cool.
  27. Xahten: I love the way this guy talks! FFXII also had an amazingly large amount of parallels to the Star Wars trilogies. Cid could be seen as the Count Dooku in FFXII. He was repected member of the Arcadian empire and responsible for much of Vayne's war effort. You could also say that his proficiency of Nethicite is comparable to Dooku's mastery of the force. Plus I cannot stand the egomaniac that is Hojo. He shot Vincent, who is one of my favorite characters (He's the only emo I can stand and I don't care if his game sucked; I enjoyed it). Oh and his cackle! I have to mute the game when he cackles. I guess it could be worse. He could've yodeled instead.
  28. Lockhart: Hojo is a real bastard, but Dr. Cid is just a little more "likable."
  29. AvaGirl: I agree with the above comment. Dr. Hojo is freaking awful, but Dr. Cid was more... crazy? And thus, we take pity on him. Plus, he's Balthier's daddy.
  30. Kefka Palazzo: He beated me in Magicite Madness. COULD YOU BELIEVE IT? I HATE HATE HATE HIM. So, the only one that can defeat him in this pitiful pitiful pitiful Coliseum (pitiful) IT'S ME. ok? p.s.: Dr. Cid STINKS.
  31. dudutsai: Second best Cid. Pretty awesome villain too.
  32. Leon5550: Cid got d support of an entire empire, a Godto back him up, one hellova Esper and he can get a gigantic tommy guns outa nowhere, HOW THE HELL DOES HE DO THAT?????!!!!!!. What does Hojo have?Hmm?Hmm?Hmm?
  33. Aleria: Because he creeped the hell out of me. And that's exactly what a bad guy should do.
  34. I just hated Hojo. Vanishing Star
  35. DVardonir 10:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC): He's a dual gunner. 'Nuff said. *coughjangofettcough* (I was the one who psted in the Anon eariler, with the same reasn, but I deleted it)
  36. MissRora: Greatest.... villain... EVER.
Anonymous Votes[edit source]
  1. Without a doubt, this is the best Cid of any Final Fantasy...and his evil laugh always cracked me up. Plus, he has two guns that turn into other, more powerful guns. How cool is that?
  2. EmuMaster: Another thing you would know about me is that I tend to vote against FF7. This has not changed =)
  3. Dracopyre: I love Dr.Cid with all my heart. He's awesome, do I really need a reason?

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Pikmin Master: It's more like "Mad scientists who fathered cool guys who appear in more than TWO games!"

Pablo618:Best introduction ever, man, really xD
Wait a tick, Hojo had another son or something? I thought he "fathered" Sephiroth. --AnonyMan 02:05, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Garnet til Alexandros XVII v. Ashelia B'nargin Dalmasca[edit source]

Garnet Til Alexandros XVII character.jpg
Lady Ashe
41½ to 30
The battle of the princesses with excessively long names!

Votes for Dagger[edit source]

  1. Faethin
  2. Yumino: Magical rackets~!
  3. Aw... Garnet's not getting any love. See summoning of Alexander if you need a reason to vote for her. 8bit BlackMage 04:05, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  4. AnonyMan: I wanted to punch Ashe in the stomach. At least with Garnet I just didn't want her to be around...or Zidane's love interest. But that's FF, also Garnet did help Summon Alexander, who gave that loser Bahamut a great ass whuppin'.
  5. Tragedian: Ashe is cool, but I just liked Garnet better. Her story was more appealing to me with her mother using her to get her summons and then using them to destroy Lindbulm, Burmecia, and Cleyra. Then when she lost her voice after her mother died. Plus it was funny when she tried to speak normal at first. It made me sympathize her. I didn't get that feeling with Ashe.
  6. Chocobo Knight: I wasn't a big fan of Ashe, let's put it that way. And I did like Garnet
  7. Dark raven:A week ago I would vote for Ashe, but I just finished IX. Garnet is awesome!
  8. Hyacynth: I do like Ashe, but Garnet isn't as overly concerned with her postion--she won't snap at anybody for being too "familiar" with her.
  9. Terra_Homing: Dagger summoned Alexander! Not only that but did you people ever see the power that is Ark? Oh, and i like her backstory a lot more the fact that she's from a lost summoning village shows that shes an FF character....
  10. Maverick Riot:Garnet seemed to be at constant struggle, all through her life. I just really admired that...
  11. SanctielI prefer a summoner over a girl who picks her nose.
  12. Saraija Merinas: How come the majority of main character males are orphans and the females in some relation to royality or the high class? At least Garnet turned out to be something different. Ashe's is a stuck up bitch anyway.
  13. SmegHead: Ashe's tiny top and single piece of fabric covering her ladyparts will always be the stuff of design legend, but the FMV of Dagger cutting off her hair remains one of my personal favourite visuals.
  14. Otens: [Insert some Hilarious joke here.]
  15. CidTheFirst:For the last time, FFXII is too lacking in character development for the majority of the protagonists. Although Ashe is by no means the biggest offender (curse you Penelo!), Garnet does boast a bigger role in her game and is a brilliant summoner.
  16. Skoot85:Somebody with character or somebody who doesn't really have any defining attributes as a character. Garnet Wins.
  17. Mr. Rojo: Although the reason I liked FF XII was for Ashe and Balthier, Garnet is so much great. She has cool summon magic and liked a lot her story and character. Plus, she summon Alexander.
  18. I repeat, better character, better game.--Otherarrow 18:21, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
  19. --High Summoner 01:47, 30 June 2008 (UTC): I'm voting for Garnet because her life was filled with more trauma. They both had their kingdoms destroyed and loved ones massacred, but Garnet was also mutilated and was used by the only family she thought she had for evil purposes. While Ashe is stronger, it is merely due to the design of the game. (FFIX characters are based off of job classes, whereas FFXII characters have more options) Throughout the struggles and trauma Garnet faced, she made it out alright. Ashe is a bit of a diva, and I love her for it, but I'm choosing Garnet because of the raw deal she was served.
  20. BoredFreakTribal: I love Dagger! Her parts in the game and her story is just sooooo captivating and interesting. You can see growth in her character, more so then in other female FF charactera. She is also good in battle.
  21. Lockhart: Garnet owns. Seriously, Ashe has nothing on her in my book.
  22. AvaGirl: I never played the game Garnet was in, but Ashe... oh, Ashe. She's a bitch.
  23. HollyP: Garnet went through more and grew more than Ashe ever did, so my vote goes to Garnet.
  24. Captain Darkblade: Garnet/Dagger had a better backstory. I found Ashe quite 1-dimensional in comparison (just like the rest of FFXII).
  25. Ajox: FFXII just sucked in terms of story in comparison to other final fantasies, so gotta go with garnet.
Anonymous Votes[edit source]
  1. I love Ashe and all but Garnet is still a little better; I mean she's one of the last of the summoners! I mean Ark. Need I say more?
  2. Garnet's name is easier to say than Ashe's, plus Garnet is smart enough not to pick her nose on promotional material (hehe).
  3. Garnet… For taking Zidane’s advice in saying; “Get your hands off me you scumbag!” And I wanted to cry at the end of FF IX when she was reunited with Zidane at the end!
  4. Garnet is developed very nicely and although Ashe is pretty kick ass, the orange jumpsuit wins every time, plus she'd make a fabulous hairdresser ^___^
  5. EmuMaster: First, yeah, back, kinda. Hopefully I'll remember to vote on these again. Second, if you know me (I suppose some of you sort of do, then you would have seen this coming from a million miles away. Garnet.)
  6. Garnet/Dagger is one of the last summoners in her world, and she's goddamn powerful too. Even though she constantly doubts herself, she is more than capable...She's flexible and light on her own two feet. Remember her escaping Alexandria with Zidane...look at how she can keep up with Zidane! She also pilots an airship...and refuses Zidane's help, when she gets the hang of it. She put the whole party to sleep at the Lindblum's Festival Hunt Feast...she's pretty cunning and clever. Dagger also makes it to the South Gate border into Alexandrian territory, successfully and undetected. Also Despite Ashe being an independent woman who can't stand on her own two feet...I mean she keeps fainting, and unfortunately someone catches her. Like Vossler and Balthier in FFXII and in RW Basch catches her. Ashe is just a normal girl with thunder thighs like the rest of us in reality-someone you can relate to. Not that you can't relate to Dagger. :/ Also Ashe was a dumbass...she acts all self-centered and not know what the hell to do..."Don't interrupt me! I'm thinking!" She has no goddamn...I wished she was smarter. The only problem with Garnet is that she has self-esteem problems and needs Zidane. Ashe is more head-on even though she has some doubts along the way. Well...clearly I'm Garnet-biased, and she's so beautiful compared to the current Ashe who looks more Asian now. I liked the French Ashe better.
  7. Tough choice. But it has to be Garnet.
  8. Rainacide - Both great characters, both came from great games. But I just love FFIX too much over FFXII. So it's gotta be Garnet. They both look good. But Garnet is a savage summoner & I like her storyline. Ashe is a good character too but ehhhh...she has a dead husband while Garnet has the ever cool ZIDANE!!
  9. cwautism Garnets/sara's head looks gi-normous in that picture, but i love her. She has a tragic life (brahne using her for domination and everything, then brahne dying, flashbacks of the ultimate destroying madqain sari, bahamut destroying alexandria and lists of more. Also, she has a really kickass scene where she gets up on her feet and cuts her hair to show resolve. Oh and by the way Garnet/Sara/Dagger fainted too. Seeing the ultimate in terra. She also shows the most character development. From being a flee-ing princess trying to fit in (and looking funny while doing so might i say) to one who learns to stand up for herself. I also think she has a cute butt. (I especially think so when she's summoning) ^*
  10. I have to vote for dagger because its a mix her character classics basic two classics put together, and was a nice break from the previous two games main female protagonists.

Votes for Ashe[edit source]

  1. Is this a question? HexedTourney
  2. No -Henryacores 02:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  3. It was for me. But Garnet's ugly orange thing made me vote for the orange side. --BlueHighwind 02:41, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  4. You just have to like her with a name like Ashelia B'nargin of Dalmasca. --ChaosEsperVII
  5. Ashe is pretty (drool) Zack Fair 007
  6. Oranejo 03:46, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  7. UM
  8. Utopian Heretic Seriously?
  9. Rydiaofmist She turned out to be a strong, serious character with a more commanding presence than Garnet. I just had more respect for Ashe.
  10. Vito:Ashe.
  11. Hmm, Girl with huge ass sword, healing magic, black magic, three other types of magic, vs a girl with healing skills. Hmm who is gonna win? Cloudofdarkness 05:08, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  12. SCM
  13. actiondan: Ashe.. dunno why I prefer her.. but.. I do!
  14. Super Sephiroth: Now, I did use Garnet originally, but in my 2nd playthrough used Eiko, and Ashe is THE best mage in XII. Plus, she is the actual blood relative of the royal family, unlike the adopted Garnet.
  15. Blykus 10:22, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  16. Dr. Crisp Dalmasca rules. --Dr. Crisp 10:38, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  17. Ashe wins.--Muchomas35 13:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  18. Adam mcduck: I prefer more Knightly characters & Garnet isn't knightly at all.
  19. VN: I don't really like Ashe but she's stronger than Garnet, so my vote goes for her.
  20. Zephyrus11: The Resistance!
  21. Pablo618
  22. CB: Ashe! ^_^
  23. SeKaLoYa: Garnet is too delicate and not pretty at all. Not that Ashe is any better.
  24. Tex 02:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
  25. Theentertainer
  26. Pikmin Master: In terms of a fight, I can't say for sure. But Ashe has White Magic, Bizzard, and a sword. Beats a bunch of summons for me.f
  27. ChiefKakashi 18:22, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
  28. Jammi568: Who the hell would want to be with someone who wears an orange jump suit?
  29. Shariii: I dislike them both intently, but I'm going for Ashe. She only barely wins because she doesnt have a horridly stupid outfit. (I want her skirt, it's pretty)
  30. Xahten: Both are very strong female characters, but my vote goes to lady Ashe. Going again to the Star Wars trilogies analogies as with Dr. Cid, Ashe can be seen as the political side of Padme Amidala or Princess Leia. They all have a strong devotion to their people and unbreakable drive.
  31. Leon5550: At least Ashe got a better name, better outfit and a NORMAL SIZED HEAD!!!
  32. Aleria
  33. I like them both, but, Ashe is just my favorite of the two. Vanishing Star
  34. Genesis rhapsodos: This is a really tough one for me, I am a fan of both and while ou don't diss a girl who can summon Ark on your ass I pick Ashe because she had more resolve when it came to making hard decisions and getting stuff done.
  35. Gokus789: The skirt, I can't resist the skirt
  36. MissRora: Let's weigh our options: Garnet, the stereotypical, weakwilled child. Or Ashe, a strong, atypical woman who restored a fallen kingdom while being thought dead. Hmmm.... I'd rather be under the rule of the one who accomplishedd things. Ashe it is.
  37. MK: *shrugs* why not?
  38. TacticAngel: Both are perfectly legitimate characters. I suppose I just like Ashe better.
Anonymous Votes[edit source]
  1. I like both characters equally so it just comes down right now to which game I like more. FF XII > FF IX for me.
  2. ...
  3. Ashe is my favorite FFXII character
  4. Because she has a more political power.
  5. FFXII is my favorite game at the moment so I'll use that to choose because I love them both equally!
  6. Dishy: Now I don't actually mind Garnet at all but I have to admit that Ashe is a lot more badass. Something about a chick who can use a sword AND magic is just cool. Like Celes...
  7. Secret Asian Man: Even though I hate FFXII, Ashe is hot though. That is the only reason why I would ever like her. mmm...

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

VN: They have something in common; they requested to be kidnapped. I thought FFXII did some sort of rip-off...

Otens: I swear the rip-off was Star Wars but then again I can't remember where I heard that one as well.
Xahten: There's a blog on called The Bloggles Do Nothing! that draws quite a few parallels to the Star Wars trilogies. I found it quite intriguing. I really wouldn't call it ripping off, but inspired by Star Wars. There all many similarities, but many differences as well.
VN: Indeed. After playing it my thoughts of Star Wars disappeared completely. (although seeing the FXII-Star Wars parody in youtube amused me)

Week 74: Auron v. Basch fon Ronsenburg[edit source]

Auron Art.png
54 to 27½
Auron Art.png
FFXII Basch Render.png
These two came back for a round two, as it were; whether imprisoned or supposedly undead. In a round three, one versus the next, who would claim the final victory?

Votes for Auron[edit source]

  1. BlueHighwind: "Pray. Now."
  2. "Your pain shall be twofold!" -Henryacores 00:06, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
  3. Wait a minute... I just remembered that Auron set tornados on fire! Flaming Tornados are my favorite natural disasters! Yes the 7th Chaos Esper has a sick taste. Or as I call it, "A Taste for the Theatrical." (Makes evil Heath Ledger Joker grin, may he rest in peace whilst guiding "The Dark Knight" to Hollywood history). Btw guys I'm not picking Auron cuz he's badass because I really think that Basch is too. Aww man, I just remembered Basch's sick quickenings. But still Auron makes flaming tornados and spits wine on his sword every now and then. ChaosEsperVII
  4. If he was half as cool in X as he was in KH2, he kicks ass. Drake Clawfang
  5. Mateus_the_Corrupt: Sorry Basch, but Auron gets my vote. Although you're so hot just because you don't button up your shirt, Auron's Bushido kicks more ass.
  6. Tex: Auron, hands down.
  7. Rydiaofmist: They're both badass. I just found Auron a little more interesting.
  8. Adam mcduck: If it was Auron vs Gabranth I wouldn't be voting for Auron. His twin's just not as good.
  9. Super Sephiroth: A difficult fight, as both are key components of my FF parties, but Auron is generally more key thean Basch, as Vaan has the same strenght level if they're both unarmed on lv 100. That's pretty pathetic.
  10. Shariii: Tough. I used both of them throughout their respective games.. But, Auron's got my vote. Simply because he was cool, hip, flyyy.. for a dead guy.
  11. yamiza: Definitely Auron. A lot more experienced than Basch.
  12. VaschKaizer: Okay, so Basch was FFXII's only good character, but that doesn't mean he can hold a candle to the greatest supporting character of all time, Mr. Badd Ass Auron Statzkowski. MEOW!
  13. Dark raven: Easy one.
  14. TheSwordofDoubt 11:01, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
  15. TheRedMagus: Definitely Auron. He was just a lot more interesting.
  16. That's how its done.--Muchomas35 13:25, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
  17. actiondan: mhmm deffnately Auron.. not that I don't like Basch
  18. "This.. Is for the fallen!" HexedTourney
  19. Lockhart: Auron is pretty much the baddest of badasses.
  20. VN: an honorable soldier is boring, a cool ronin is awesum. Basch could've been better if his costume doesn't suck although he looks hot as a judge. My vote goes for Auron because he's cooler, he's mysterious and he has the best quotes ever. "This is your story" as simple as that.
  21. Bartz235: If he beat Balthier, c'mon Basch has no chance.
  22. Maverick Riot: Auron is killer... he has some good one liners and is useful in battle straight off. I also like his enigmatic personality... okay, I worked out he was undead before the storyline spelled it out for me, but it was a nice twist... You just gotta love him...
  23. BigSlurp: Auron is a much better fighter than Basch. Can we get him a decent opponent.
  24. Dark Dragoon:" this is who i´m voting for ´cause this is my story". He is just the best character on all de ff series!!
  25. UM:There's nothing to say.
  26. Crazyswordsman: Because he realizes that Rikku's worse than a storm....
  27. SeKaLoYa: I must say Auron is better developed as a character, and he's way cooler in combat. This is mainly because the characters in XII can be customized freely, thus there is no definite fighting style for any character.
  28. Sanctiel: C'mon he rides Sin how awesome is that?
  29. Zack fair 007: Auron would kick his ass like (snap) that.
  30. ShadowLaguna: Simply badass.
  31. Rickytone: Auron Carried himself better, even after death.
  32. Theentertainer: Wasn't really a fan of FFX and I liked KH I & II even less but Auron had coolness in spades. his Overdrives and even his collection of Massive Katana's more than made up for some of the whining he did and stiffness of his character in his back story.
  33. Oranejo 19:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
  34. Terra_Homing Easy one. Auron's just amazing. Oh,and he actually has an interesting personality.
  35. LordofCheese:Auron is really badass! He'll win this fight for sure.
  36. User:Lord Knight Xiron: Well, I can't honestly say I know his competetor, but Auron is so cool, that it doesn't really matter. He was the only thing that kept me playing FFX as long as I did.
  37. stnapknah: is this a joke?
  38. BahamutKaiser :Can't really help this one, Basch was an interesting character, but to be completely shallow, his attire totally ruined his character for me, I mean why the hell can't he change out of those rags at some point during the game? I can understand wher Balthier changes back into the same getup, but Basch just keeps wearing that hobo suit the whole game. Plus Auron has a cooler personality and combat style, Auron hands down.
  39. Kuroari1307 19:17, 24 June 2008 (UTC): Auron is totally awesome. He is easy when it comes to upgrading his overdrive (finding Jecht spheres), and has a totally B.A. personallity. Auron has my vote.
  40. Isredel: Auron can summon dark spirits to swarm the enemy. He has my vote.
  41. Draga: Auron is better than Basch for a number of reasons.1: He is badass. 2: He has an F-ing great big sword. 3: His speech before the fight with Yunalesca is epic. 4: He is badass. That's right, he is so badass I had to say it twice.
  42. --High Summoner 01:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)Dicey. This is a pretty tough decision. Basch was locked in a cage and swears fealty to his kingdom, but Auron dragged his half-dead self halfway across the continent, and then served as Tidus' mentor. He even lends a hand (or voice) from the Farplane in X-2. For this I'll have to vote Auron.

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. Is this even a contest? Auron is the definition of BADASS. He has that mysterious and calm nature, and is definitely one of the best chracters to use in battle. Besides, Final Fantasy X is both my first Final Fantasy and my favorite Final Fantasy.
  2. Auron will obviously win. He can carry a big katana with one hand, use sake or whatever the hell is in that jug as an attack, has cool glasses, and make near-old people look cool.
  3. Auron is the defenition of badass, the symbol of badass and the warrior of badass. need I say any more?
  4. Auron is a better fighter, and he was dead!
  5. Auron is the coolest FF character yet.
  6. Auron kicks your ass.
  7. His blade resembles way more a Nodachi than a katana, so I guess it's indeed a nodachi.
  8. Auron will kick anyones ass with a sword in ONE hand.
  9. Auron is one of my favorite Final Fantasy X characters.
  10. Auron kicks much ass
  11. Auron beats all, end of story.
  12. I used Auron more than Basch so this is a no brainer, plus his design is better and I like his personality better.
  13. Oh, c'mon! I am totally voting for Auron, and not just because of the obvious(he's dead sexy, strong, has an awesome design, cool dialogue, and is completely BADASS.) He should flat out win because he had to undergo the horrible agonizing pain that is...TIDUS! (Dun, Dun, DUN!) I can't even imagine the torture he must have endured =(
  14. Does Basch HAVE a theme song? No! I think not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Oh, and i LUV the color RED!!!!!
  15. Since Auron is already dead he will obviously win.
  16. He kool! Me <3 him long time! Necrophilia anyone?
  17. I even need to say anything? He is the total definition of badassnery.
  18. Auron = pwnage
  19. Auron, hands down.
  20. Auron, he's way more badass. And his scar is sexier. The party in FFXII could've carried themselves fine without Basch, but everyone in FFX would've been doomed if Auron hadn't showed up. HE RULES!
  21. Come on people, Auron's so badass that he came back from the dead! Plus, he was smart enough to allow his 'second death' so that he wouldn't appear in FFX-2!
  22. Auron is just awsome and Basch gets anyoning sometimes!
  23. Flaming Tornado of Undeath (is a word!). We'll see who's dead after the match.
  24. Auron with Masamune :)
  25. hes is too kick ass for Basch... too kick ass for anyone actually, he cant be stopped dont even try!

Votes for Basch[edit source]

  1. Maverick King. That's M-A-V-R-I-C-K K-I-N-G...I think nobody could despise Auron more than I do. An insult to true samurai and died like a worm. Doesn't even have a good reason for his resurrection either. Pathetic.
  2. He's Number X for something. OtOcon^_- 23:21, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
  3. AnonyMan: He may look dumb, but that doesn't stop Basch from being a great character.
  4. Because he is the best character in Revenant Wings. How I love Shining Ray. 8bit BlackMage 00:09, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
  5. Blykus 03:25, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
  6. Yumino
  7. Gyromite: I admit Auron is great, and he and Seymour kept X from being nothing but whining and boredome, but they can beat the cast of XII. Auron is stuck with a sword and no armour, but Basch can shoot at him with Formalhaut while he walks up to Zodiac Spear his butt! Auron would win in popularity, but Basch can multi-class his butt in a battle contest.
  8. CoD Basch>Balthier>Auron.
  9. Leon5550 Basch and Auron are like two faces of a coin, they'r d same but different, dat's why this is though battle. still, Basch have something that Auron don't: personality. Both are silent, but each time Basch speaks, he says some wise and usefull things, unlike Auron. Basch also is the guy who set FFXII story in motion, Auron is realy important in X story but Basch got greater impact on the storyline. And Auron can only equip katanas,Basch can equip ANYTHING and be good at ANYTHING.'nuff said,Basch wins a narrow victory
  10. Kidkilla Finally!!! A REAL fight, basch gt my vote cuz hes sexier, he says usefull things n cuz Basch got an evil bro with badass armor. And hundreds of flaming,giant swords (Flame Purge) can make Auron's katana to look like a butterknife. still u gota think more than twice before voting here
  11. Otherarrow
  12. SCM
  13. Chocolancer 17:08, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
  14. User:HollyP Easily Basch. Sure he may wear shorts and strappy boot/sandal things that make me go cross eyed, but I find he's a more interesting character and better spoken that Auron. Though I do admire spitting moonshine on a sword and setting tornadoes on fire :P. HollyP
  15. AvaGirl10Roses: He's related to Gabranth.
  16. ChiefKakashi: This is tough...But Basch is currently down by about 6 or 7.
  17. Pablo618:Oh fuck! what a hard fight! really! I'll go for basch cause' he is the man!
  18. Zephyrus11: While Auron wins for awesome speeches and general coolness, I think I still slightly prefer Basch. Basch wins at clothes. His shirt is half vest-half blouse, held together by what looks like a rainbow colored pot holder. The whole disgraced soldier who is still loyal thing is really cool, and you can't deny the awesomeness of an evil identical twin brother. While I know Auron will win this, Basch is slightly higher in my book.
  19. Rurl56:I'm votin Basch to proove that Auron CAN be beaten and bcuz Basch would have higher chance of finding a girl than Auron ;)
  20. MissRora: Well, let's see here... Basch chose to defend Ashe, Auron is only watching Tidus and Yuna becasue Braska and Jecht asked him to. If given the choice, I don't think Auron would've. Plus, Basch took the classic "it was my evil twin" joke, and brought it to life. Did Auron bring any jokes to life? No!
  21. bahamut-shin: I like both character but my vote is for the great "Capitan Basch fon Ronsenburg"

Anonymous Votes[edit source]

  1. This is truly a tough choice, as both were pretty badass. Although Auron was the one who kept me into the X storyline, I'll give my vote to Basch for being under-appreciated under Balthier's huge shadow.
  2. Go Basch,Go!!! Show dat old coot what a captain of Dalmasca n a Judge Magister can do!!!
  3. They're both great characters. But I'll pick Basch cause he got looks. Though I prefer Auron over that whiney Tidus anyday.
  4. Auron's great with a sword, so what? Basch kicks ass with ANY weapons u give him, n Basch's sexier
  5. Basch won as the best hero here, why cant he win here? Besides,if he lost(snif...), he would always win in our hearts(sniff...)
  6. Wow. Hard question. But Basch fr me. You gotta love that background story. And that ending. And that outfit.
  7. I enjoyed the end sequence when Basch took up residence with jailbait Larsa akin to Michael Jackson and Macully Culkin. His brother Noah was a stronger character than him and should have been another playable character and not a guest in one of the most easiest battles the game had to offer. Still I wouldn't mind having Basch as my man candy. =)
  8. The dark knight beats the samurai, hands down. Even when Basch has similar equipment, he can still use techniques such as 1000 Needles and Darkness. Can Auron do that? Huh? Didn't think so.
  9. Does Auron even looks like a samurai? Does these [1] even looks like katanas for u? The only thins that makes him close to a samurai is Bushido and that sake jug. That gigantic sword should'n even be useable in battle, hell, even Basch sword looks more like a katana to me.
  11. BASCH should have had a prison rape scene being gangbanged by a bunch of Bangaa...
  12. Basch. He's got the whole dark history and redemption thing going, but he's not "XII's Vincent Valentine." Plus, potholder. Yes.
  13. Definately Basch. He has some much character developement and internal strife. Fighting his brother and being wrongfully accused by all the characters. And all Auron had was listen to the dreams and here is your story.

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

So I'm guessing we're done with Annon Votes? --BlueHighwind 23:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The 7th Chaos Esper is undecisive.... They were both my muscle characters. The one's that usually ended the battle with a decisive strike. ChaosEsperVII 8:47 PM

My apologies Anony, one day we shall be on the same side. And may it be a Grand day indeed. ChaosEsperVII 8:55 PM
Same here CE, sometimes I can get a bit looney.It would defeiniely be a spectacle. --AnonyMan 01:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I have to give you credit though AnonyMan. You definetely seem to go against the grain with a lot of your tastes in FF, and you do not mind defending those tastes either. You always seem to have debate material as well.--Oranejo 03:02, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Appreciate the comment. I guess my taste are a bit weirder than some, just a loud FFIX lover. Most FF's have some good points even the ones I don't like. Though I'll admit I still haven't beaten FFV, and refuse too. --AnonyMan 04:28, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I seem to love to instigate things but someone said Basch would beat Auron cuz of multi-class. Umm, the FFX sphere grid makes your characters multi-class. When you cross Auron and Tidus into each other's sphere grids, it just makes the game unbalanced. Not commenting on who beats who, The 7th Chaos Esper is just tossing some knowledge out there. ChaosEsperVII 2:17 AM 20 June 2008.

Though I don't like Auron, I agree. Except it's easier for Basch to be "multi-class", but Auron can be stronger thanks to X's system. Also this match is going pretty well, right now. This is nhow I thought the last one would go. --AnonyMan 12:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah despite my voting for Auron for his flaming tornados I'm glad people like Basch as much too. The 7th Chaos Esper must attend to his next final exam. Btw, the FFXII song Battle for Freedom is so gangster. ChaosEsperVII 2:17 AM 20 June 2008

BigSlurp: I wanted to ask a question fo BlueHighwind. Now, I know for a while the question had been posed about annonymous votes, this is similar, kinda. How about someone possible cheating votes. I know that I voted in the Vivi/Aerith and Lulu/Edea matches that passed not long ago, however my vote in both are gone. Just wanted to see if maybe I got banned from voting by you mods or if someone is going around deleting votes. Just thought I'd bring it up, cause it'd suck o think someone would do that, its pathetic.

I never deleted your votes, Paizon. The master of ceremonies, TacticAngel might have though. If you're not logged in as a User, you can't vote in the User Votes section. He just deletes them. I'd only delete your votes if you verbally insulted other people with some kind of curse or slur. --BlueHighwind 21:40, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
When it comes time to review all the votes for faud, [DELETE] is easier than [CTRL] + [X] and [CTRL] + [V] by a factor of four. When I have a few hundred edits to pour through, I think you can hardly fault me for it. --TacticAngel 22:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I wonder what FFXII would have been like if Basch was the main character. The developers said they were planning on doing that at first. ChaosEsperVII 5:35 PM June 21, 2008

Alot less people hating Vaan and expressing thier views about how he 's a terrible character. That would have been awesome. I beleive XII went through alot problems in development, one of the main factors being the head designer bailing out half way through(I wonder if that's why the 1st half or so is much better?). Who knows how the game could have been if it didn't go through a wonky process. --AnonyMan 23:37, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
That game's real problem is that the story ends too quickly. Things just start to heat up with the war beginning and Vayne becoming a God and all. It should have been a two-part game, FFXII-2 taking place in Rozzaria during the Archadian invasion. The Occuria could have made awesome Bosses. Not to mention that Vayne despretely needed more screen time and development. Instead all we get is Revenant Wings. A pity. --BlueHighwind 19:44, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Indeed I have to agree with you guys. The first half was better and Vayne had such small screen time for a villain. And what the hell? Tell us the deal with his brothers too. Also, about the Occuria: shouldn't they have been pissed off at Ashe for destroying the Sun-Cryst? We should have been able to fight them. And I would like to have had the Espers having a much bigger role. Seriously, their back story was so great, them raging agaisnt the Occuria and all. They should have had a particular interest in Ashe's gang since they are defying the gods as well. Hopefully in the next installment of Ivalice Alliance they can clear this up and possibly explain how the Espers later become Lucavi in FFT. Perhaps if the game was split in two it could have been better. The first time I played through I was like omg this game is so long and then it ended so quickly. ChaosEsperVII 5:15 PM June 22, 2008
As I mentioned, if it weren't for those conflicts in development, the plot could have been a more solid, better experience and not falter partway through. Youse guys also got stated good points there was a lot of potential for the story. Considering how long XII was in development it's fairly disappointing. --AnonyMan 01:53, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Why would anyone care about a match like this? They both fail and fall only to try and redeem themselves with the support of other characters. I mean they would be awesome if they they could stand alone like Lulu or Ashe. Both were great to start off the story but not to continue it. One should have stayed dead while the other stayed in prison. Its like downing Jagerbombs all night only to end it with a watered down tequila cuz the barkeep wants to save some good stuff for himself. Thats just my two gil I guess. Seraphs blade 22:30, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand that metaphor at all. I'm guessing that you're saying that the characters are idiots, because nobody but the many brands of stupid would actually drink a Jägerbomb or stay in that crappy bar. Either that, or I'm missing the finer points of your obviously complex mental thinking. It would have to take a lot of circular logic and doublethink to say that Auron should have stayed dead. I guess you think Tidus should have had more screen time? --BlueHighwind 22:56, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
And for the record when was Lulu able to stand alone? Last I remembered she was as much of a backround character as the others who weren't *sigh* Yuna, *sigh* Tidus and... *sigh* Auron. Then again I haven't play X in years. --AnonyMan 01:53, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, what you said doesn't make sense. Redeem themselves through other characters? Both of them had a charge: to look after Tidus/Ashe and they did just that. Auron/Basch are like the Obi-Wan Kenobi of their games: they are the mentors. Without them, the main characters can't learn and grow. Plus they're the ones that know whats going on/gives the main character some crazy revelation like "by the way your pops is the thing we're about to kill, thought you should know." Without them, the other characters and the gamer have no idea what to do. Finally, it's important for someone to fail and redeem themselves so that others don't. I also don't get your metaphor either. Since I brought up Obi-Wan I'll draw a comparison: Anakin didn't listen to Obi and he got fucked up. If there was no mentor figure in FF, like in 7, but the reason is that the characters themselves fail and then redeem themselves, (also notice how in Crisis Core, that Angeal is Zack's mentor, and Zack doesn't need to redeem himself cuz he didn't fail at anything). So if there was no Auron/Basch, then Tidus/Ashe wouldn't learn anything and end up like Darth Vader. We all need a teacher. Except for The 7th Chaos Esper. ChaosEsperVII 10:01 PM June 22, 2008
What I am trying to say is they both give the story momentum at the start. They do a great job of giving the main characters purpose and getting the game going like what you said Chaos, but I believe that towards the end of it all they just kept fading and fading. Ashe didn't need Basch for support...unless it was just for protection. And Tidus didn't need Auron the entire time as well...he could have been just an advisor to them on how to do stuff, sort of like asking your Mom which dress should you wear to prom versus asking her to come with you to the prom. And YES LULU is a stand alone. She has experience and really doesn't rely on anyone. The fanbase for Auron and Basch is in their right to be all gung-ho about them but I am not. Again it is just my opinion. Sorry for the metaphor..what I meant was ...Jaeger Bomb is to great awesome game opening story as watered down Tequila is to crappy ending as you learn the fates of all the characters in the aftermath that followed the games events. Hey I got question think Paine from FFX-2 could have been remotely related to Auron like a long lost daughter or something? Seraphs blade 02:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
No, Paine has no relation to Auron. Anyways, if it wasn't for Auron, Tidus wouldn't have realized who is father really was and wouldn't have been able to face him. Also, Auron goes agaisnt all of Yevon's teachings, taught the characters to stand agaisnt their beliefs to do what is right, and if it wasn't for him, then the spiral of summoners dying and Sin being reborn would continue. He showed the characters what they had to do to fix Spira. For Basch, he felt that to restore Dalmasca, he had to protect the Ashe. Plus before she met Basch and Balthier, Ashe was to hot-headed, and rushed into situations. Finally, Basch is a representation of honor and he showed his brother the meaning of honor. And lets not forget that if he fails to protect Larsa and Larsa dies, Archadia launches into civil war. So FF without Auron or Basch= disaster. Without characters like them, the stories would end in the wrong way. ChaosEsperVII 11:44 PM June 23, 2008

Leon5550 I dnt know if this is true, but i think Auron is just waaaaay too overated, sure he's great, but aren't there other's as great as him? Basch is a good example. Auron is just a decent character in a lame game (yes,hate me if u wan't), that is why he is viewed as an awesomme guy, cuz evryone else sucks! Basch, on the other hand is a good character that have Balthier who stole his script and Vaan who stole his role, leaving Basch with nearly nothing while hes supposed to be the most important character in the party (okay, after Ashe). If we put Auron in a game with awesome cast (like FFVI or FFVII), he'll just be a decent guy, not overrated,but not lame. Basch, on the other hand, if placed i the same game but with the script and role he should have , he'll completely stole the spotlight and have Vaan and Balthier with nothin. This is the reason Auron will win, but Basch should win, he won't because squeenix thinks that a sissy hero will make better game (WRONG!!!!) and put the true hero in Balthier's back. Things gonna change if Basch got what he deserves.

VN: Judging a character based on how 'lame' the game is so... lame. FF12 isn't my favourite FF but my favourite character is still Balthier. Square-Enix planned to put a fagfaced hero to attract female audience, because one of their good games phailed to grab attention because the hero is a middle-aged man. It is a matter of attraction factor. As much as I don't like what they did, but I have to accept that very fact. This is what you call 'business'.
Really? "Fagfaced?" Really? People say that if you're a Final Fantasy fan you know better words than most other gamers. Just saying.
Whoever you are, maybe you're the 'people' who says that. I've never heard of such statement. Don't get me wrong, I do not dislike 'bishounen' --VN
Just a few questions:
1. What does Fagface look like?
2. Isn't Venat the real hero of FFXII. I mean he/she did stop the rest of Occuria from manipulating all of Ivalice.
3. What do you guys think if Auron was dumped into FFXII and Fran was dumped into FFX-2?
Auron would be out of place in FFXII. Fran in FFX-2 would make the game better. ChaosEsperVII
Fran using Lady Luck dressphere....hawt. Draga

lol so who were the ones mentioning that Basch should have had his own prison rape scene...freaking funny lol Seraphs blade 20:26, 24 June 2008 (UTC) 11:44 PM June 23, 2008 Otens: Dammit Maverik, why do you always put your vote first? Geeze, just bugs me is all.

Week 73: Tidus v. Squall[edit source]

Tidus art.jpg
66½ to 28½
Who has more fun? Is it the blonde or the brunette, or better yet, which of these off-lookers would you say would win in a swordfight?

Votes for Tidus[edit source]

  1. Dicey. This is definitely a tough decision. I vote Tidus.--High Summoner 04:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  2. actiondan: blah blah.. Tidus... at least he had a story that was worth being a story... hell.. even arguments over how to pronounce his name.. are about 5 million times more exciting than Squall!
  3. Tidus is my 3rd favourite main character. He's just more fun to play as. Adam mcduck
  4. TheSwordofDoubt 06:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  5. Acropolis : Come on Tidus. Please don't lose this humiliating
  6. Bartz235: Looks like Tidus is going down. This is pretty humiliating. Tidus was one of the better main characters. Caladabolg with BlitzAce=Dead Squall.
  7. Rydiaofmist: Don't get me wrong, I HATED Tidus's voice. But that aside, I actually didn't mind him as a character. Sure, he was whiny and annoying at times, but watching Squall struggle with expressing his emotions was like pulling teeth. I guess I have more tolerance for annoying, expressive characters than aloof, emo ones.
  8. Slayerette: I vote Tidus because the whole Dream Zanarkand thing is cool. And because he is getting whipped in this fight. :(
  9. Xadren: I prefear Tidus, he's more affable and often speaks nonsense!
  10. Zack fair 007: Tidus is just a funny character. look, he's lost, but copes with it, he cheers people up about stuff he doesn't know about, so i mean come on, Tidus is downright funnier and better than squall. But, i greatly admire squall also. By the way, Squall wasn't modeled afrter GACKT. Genesis was. Check my userpage about my new FFX idea! And also, Tidus was the first character who looked like real person. Not squall. He looks kool in KH2:)
  11. Lycentia: While I actually liked VIII, Squall is just a little angsty for me.
  12. Pablo618: I like Tidus, I have no problem with him =)
  13. Maverick Riot: Sympathy vote really... I like both of them anyway, but this is a whitewash... Everyone said Tidus was annoying... he wasn't that bad honestly. Squall is probably a better character anyway, but they're both brilliant in different ways.
  14. Onewingedangel 05:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC) I hate love stories! specially Emo ones!
  15. DrakemasterDrake:I actually liked Tidus. Though everyone seems to hate him for being "emo" he acts just like a normal guy would if he got thrown into the future, he's confused, he's afraid, he just wants to go home, and then this one person he meets in the future he falls in love with, and then learns that she's going to die. You wouldn't complain?
  16. Nirvana Phoenix: Tidus is possibly my fave FF main character. His complexities and reactions to his arrival in Spira are very well written and performed. In battle he's very good as well and is usually part of my team, Caladbolg is cool and Jetch Shot rules at Blitz! He may not be as cool as Cloud or Squall (Squall's only cool in KH/II as Leon anyway) but he's a different, empathatic hero who is leagues and boundsa ahead of Squall.
  17. Lockhart: Not the best of leading men, but Squall just doesn't do it for me. Not even a contest for me.
  18. Oranejo: ..because he is really getting his ass kicked right now.
  19. Cesar13: I vote for Tidus because half magical half physical characters rocks.
  20. Because he is not an Emo bitch, Tidus actually is one of the best protagonist (well, at least he's better than Bartz, Cloud or Squall...).-Henryacores 19:59, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
  21. CidTheFirst: Although he's not got the best voice actor he does have an incredibly compelling story.
  22. RowdyCMoore: Just because so many seem to hate him. I think that sounds cooler than "pity vote."

Anonymous votes[edit source]

  1. I prefer Tidus. He had a better personality than Squall, He wasnt a whiner.
  3. A gunblade is just plain stupid, good ol fashion sword slashin for me
  4. I Hate These Dragon's Neck Colosseum Things Because 85% Of Them Are Based On Pure Bias I'll Vote Based On Combat.Caladbolg (Triple Overdrive,Break Damage Limit Etc.)+Blitz Ace+Endless Road(Break HP & Mp Limit) Vs. Lionheart+Lion Heart=Tidus Uber Mega Pwning Squall
  5. Why Tidus is loosing man?Squall is such a Cloud's rip-off.
  6. Please, Tidus, Fight on!
  7. Squall is nothing but a whiny butt, always sulking, he couldn't win a fight against a grapefruit (grapefruit's are tough) Tidus is the first FF hero that actually looks Asian, ROCK ON.
  8. squall just acted like an arse then a lovesick puppy then an idiot, that's NOT character development that's just sad! tidus was passable as a human being at least and blonde :)
  9. Yumiko: Um, well Tidus wasnt so bad. FFX had a nice story and it stuck to mostly fantasy. VIII was too scifi-ish for me. I mean Squall is a great character (and he is not emo. just because someone wears a lot of black and broods a lot doesn't mean their emo!" and he was in a great game but he is winning by too much. Anyways I don't see why people don't like Tidus. He wasn't whiny. At least he wasn't intended to be. If you ever get a hold of the japanese version of X you'll understand.
  10. Tidus totally kicked some tail in FFX thanks to the shere grid, and Caladbolg was a dang sweet weapon. Sure, he got a little annoying, but who doesn't? He was a genuine character and just made the story all the better.
  11. I think Tidus is underrated... 10 had more depth than 8 and a lot of that can be credited to tidus. squall is cool too but tidus gets my vote.
  12. Tidus is a great guy, but Yuna's such a whore, he deserved a better girl.
  13. I agree with Drakemaster Drake on this one. Besides in a fight you have to look at it like this, Tidus has Blitz Ace and the Caladbolg, a weapon that can BREAK THE DAMAGE LIMIT. Sure Squall has the Lionheart but it still wouldn't be as powerful, even if he can do 11 strikes of 9,999 while Tidus can do just as many strikes for even more.– Musashi

Votes for Squall[edit source]

  1. I doubt anybody could hate FFX as much as me. Squall wins because he exists and I'd take a mute over a whiner anyday --Maverick King 04:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  2. Yumino
  3. Squall for sure. I hate Tidus! I don't even have any other reason but that. Plus, I really like Squall. So I hope he wins. Vanishing Star
  4. Don't know or care who Tidus is, but I'm fairly sure he hasn't fought back to back with Cloud. Drake Clawfang
  5. Otens: I have to go with Squall on this one. Sure not the friendliest guy but at least he wasn't originally *Spoilish* a dream.
  6. Tidus even looks like a complete buffoon. Squall may not be the best protagonist either, but at least he looks sort of badass. I like that picture that TA chose to use. 8bit BlackMage 03:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  7. Shariii: Someone said Tidus wasnt a whiner? I hope that was sarcasm. To be honest, they were both a whiney, but in different ways. HMM.. This is actually quite tough, because I really do like both of them (and their games, X/VIII) quite a bit.. but.. gonna have to settle with Squall.. He would deffinately win in a fight over Tidus. Also, as a sidenote: he, other than Cloud, was one of the few FF characters I looked forward to seeing in KH and ended up being quite happy about the result (the Tidus in the original KH game was terrible :O) =].
  8. AnonyMan: Weird designed Gunblade weapon aside, I'd say Squall could more than handle Tidus. Despite being around the same age(somewhat) Squall's actually proficient fighter with his weapon, he didn't of become an expert after some lame old guy gives him a sword. Also Squall despite being just a bit bigger loser than Cloud at first eventually evolves into a cool guy, can't say the same for Tidus.
  9. Leon's decent in Kingdom Hearts. OtOcon^_- 04:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  10. VN: I don't hate Tidus but I hate Squall. I vote him simply because he reminds me of myself.
  11. Vito: Squall.
  12. Gyromite: This is the character that got me into FF, he was my role model as a little kid, and he is my 2nd favorite character of all time.
  13. BlueHighwind: Who do I hate more? Well, Squall is at least somewhat like Cloud (in fact, exactly like Cloud, only with a lamer backstory, girlfriend, weapon, and is in FFVIII, so he sucks). But Tidus is just awful all around. Yuna deserves better!
  14. Yes, I voted for Tidus first, then i rememberd the Dissidia picture if him. He looks like a cheap, trashy whore you'd find only in the worst parts of LA in the latest parts of the night.--Muchomas35 13:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  15. Slighter: Ah yes, ol' Squall, I do not like you (Cloud clone minus everything that makes Cloud awesome), but I do like your weapon. And yeh, Leon is cool.
  16. Dark raven: I actually like Squall. And Tidus is the second lamest main character in FF, after Vaan.
  17. TheRedMagus: Squall wasn't too bad, I suppose... at least not compared to the rest of the VIII cast. Whereas Tidus was just so annoying. In the end Squall gets my vote because at least you couldn't hear him talk.
  18. Hydronisa: Funny, up until now, FF8 has been the target of many an insult. But, whatever, Squall easily.
  19. Utopian Heretic: Squall may not be quite as epic as some other protagonists, but he easily owns Tidus.
  20. Squall has all the finess of a suicidal emo kid and the innocence of a sweet country boy. An original character from top to bottom who gets a hot a chick with pretty wings. Tidus is a make believe fairy tale boy come to life because some overgrown flying turd called Sin throw him up like bad tacos. FFX was more Yuna's story than anything else with FFVIII having Squall as a the main character with a fully fleshed out story.Seraphs blade 17:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  21. Francly I have never herd of Squall but he gets my vote simply because Tidius is a blond who is useful for more than comedy, and that is so far out there, and from what I read Squall might actualy be able to exist in todays !@#$ed up world. Neverherd of him yet he gets my vote. Is that odd? Southgale
  22. klaros: squall all the way! he looks awesome, the gunblade is one of the best ff weapons ever and he is also my 3rd favourite character (zidane and zack 1st and 2nd). squall is awesome!!!!
  23. ChiefKakashi: This is what it came to for me: Squall can actually dress himself.
  24. ChaosEsperVII: The 7th Chaos Esper remembers how badass Squall was in his opening cinema and enjoyed being in Squall's head. And also cuz he is like Cloud. Tidus should not have come back to existence because it takes away from the tragic ending of Final Fantasy X.
  25. Super Sephiroth: They are both crappy main characters, but Squall has Lion Heart Limit Break, own Tidus. 'Nuff said.
  26. GunbladeWarlord: Squall is probably the most powerful main character in Final Fantasy(Sic Semper Lionheart) (Black Mage aside), so yeah, he wins.
  27. Mr. Rojo: I liked both characters, but well Squall was a mercenary and tidus just a blitzball player. Squall would win in combat easy. Also, personaly I think Squall was very cool and is my favorite main character.
  28. Etch: Dont get me wrong, both characters have their heroic moments, but james arnold taylor just brings down what tidus could have been. im pretty sure they dont have such problems with tidus in japan because the voice acting is much better and isnt annoying. dont blame tidus for being annoying blame the voice acting is all i say. but that aside squalls one of my fav characters just cuz he kicks so much ass in the storyline. ill say my 2 cents on tidus another day.
  29. Chaltier:Never really liked Tidus.
  30. He was the best fighter on my team, could do about 9500 with every slash with Lionheart. Cloudofdarkness 15:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
  31. BoredFreakTribal: I vote for SQUALL!!!!
  32. Faethin: Well I actually like Squall. And you know what else, I LIKE ULTIMECIA TOO. There.
  33. Theentertainer: Clueless vs. Calculated thats easy, its Squall. Griever, Gunblades, Renzokuken. A Summoners Guardian vs. A Sorceress' Knight and a Merc leader to boot. gotta give it up to Squall. Not many guys can pull of Angst and Angry in leather and fur.
  34. Nyxana: Squall. Can't say I like the guy but in comparison to Tidus he wins hands down. Even Tidus' own father couldn't stand him, and with good reason.
  35. Squall!! ~Zero (0)
  36. Lord Knight Xiron - Squall all the way man. Calm, collected, awesome (trained!!!) swordsman who weilds an impressive, unique, specialized weapon, and doesn't spend the game complaining about how badly is father treated him. Not to mention that Squall never had that cheesy fake-laugh moment.
  37. Genesis rhapsodos: No offense to Tidus but this is an easy choice for me. Squall was awesome, always kept his cool and knew what to do when nobody else did. He took on any problem and didn't let his burdens become anyone elses. Dark, cool, and intense. A total bad A. Squall wins this round pretty bad A.
  38. Mateus_the_Corrupt: I will voted for Squall coz he kicks ass, man! And to think that Tidus is a total moron, his sword has no chance with Squall's gunblade.
  39. Netherith: As to be expected here is my vote.
  40. UM: Don't get me started on Tidus...
  41. Dramirth: I will give my vote for Squall, absolutely! He's a trained mercenary and has mastered a highly unusual, difficult weapon. Tidus is just a sports star and when Auron first gave him a sword, he couldn't even pick it up properly. I like both of the guys here, but Squall is just so much cooler in any way.
  42. I cannot believe I'm saying this, but....Squall. Oh god now I have to purify my computer! TBM
  43. I may be one of the minority but i actually liked squall, Tidus just annoyed me he just whined about everything and he doesn't stand a choice against lionheart. Oh, and squall is better by default as he wasn't a part of the dreaded fake laugh scene....Terra_Homing
  44. Judge Zarbi: Gunblade>Brotherhood. 'Nuff said.
  45. dudutsai: If they are going to make the main character say stupid stuff, at least have it be silent without a voice actor to make it worse.
  46. Jammi568: Squall. Better story and better game.
  47. 03:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC) :I like FFX but Tidus is a loser. And Squall could kick his ass.
  48. Eirwen Not only was Squall the first FF protagonist I came across with, it's also like bringing a knife to a gunblade fight.
  49. Aleria Brunettes are better than blondes, any day. And at least Squall is actually real. Plus, he's a mercenary. What more can I say.
  50. AvaGirl10Roses: Wow. This'll be a landslide. Tidus sucks majorly. MAJORLY. And at least Squall is a cool main character... he looks sexy in Kingdom Hearts, too. :]
  51. Skoot85:He got slashed in the face and isn't some sorta memory/idunnoiforgot thing.
  52. RenzokukenXIV: Wow, this is really one sided.I mean, Squall is a trained mercenary, and is beyond sexy.And Tidus...plays Blitzball.Thats like saying Who would win in a fight, A person trained to kill,or Michael Jordan.
  53. ShadowLaguna: TIDUS SUCKS!!!!
  54. Blykus 06:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
  55. Mkaitlin: Squall would obviously win. And of course, Squall's better looking, as well. (;

Anonymous votes[edit source]

  1. Squall, hands down.
  2. Squall is a trained warrior. Tidus is a trained.. Blitzball player. Need I say more?
  3. Squall WILL win! I've never really liked Tidus... plus a gunblade is one of the most famous weapons Square ever produced(alongside the buster sword)
  4. Squall is GACKT, despite Nomura denying, ppl can see the resemblance. Gackt owns Tidus.
  5. noob: Tidus has some awesome swords and attacks, but then his character's just not cool enough. Actually, Squall does have some cool attacks also. Anyways, Squall's character is a whole lot better then Tidus.
  6. Squall would destroy Tidus...trained Mercenary vs Whiney Waterpolo guy. Need I say more?
  7. Squall has the famous Gunblade...which just owns. Tidus is ok but hes not a very good warrior at all.
  8. I vote for the brunette. Squall may not have a voice actor during Final Fantasy VIII (The voice actor of Leon gives justice to the character though) but I'd rather not hear Squall talk rather than hear Tidus speak. His voice actor sucks.
  9. Squall is cool and collected, analyzing a battle to know how to win. Tidus blindly jumps in and is reckless. I choose the one who WILL win, not has a small chance to win.
  10. I vote for squall. I never played anything past 9 (except for revenant wings but thats another story) but squall, albeit a moody guy, kicks more ass than tidus.
  11. Squall wins with gunblade :)
  12. Renzokuken was awesome, Tidus had nothing on it
  13. Squall is BEYOND sexy and Tidus is just kind of there...
  14. Squall is very powerfull
  15. If you think about it Squall would clearly win. After all he has a sword and a gun in the same weapon. So if he starts getting low on health, he can start running and shooting. So there.
  16. Squall would win hands down, Tidus wasn't even a real person plus he played Blitzball. Squall would completely wipe the floor with him.
  17. SeKaLoYa: FFX is cool but VIII is still my favorite. It is arguably the only installment in the series to diverge from the traditional interface and battle system. Also, Squall's character had more room for development as the story progressed.
  18. Judge Zarbi: Gunblade>Brotherhood. 'Nuff said.
  19. Tidus is a little whiny retard. He needs to die! Squall, on the other hand, is really cool thought! D:
  20. Squall was trained professionally to be a fighter Tidus is an underwater soccer/basketball player who was just handed a a sword and told what to hit. Plus Squall was real, and supports a wicked cool scar.
  21. Squall all the way. He's cool, he's strong, and plus he took that hit and got a scar like a man! Tidus would cry like a little bitch if someone gave him a scar. Oh, and the Gunblade is AWESOME!
  22. Well, everythings pretty much been said already... And, brunettes beat blonds anytime...
  23. Squall was impaled by a huge ice shard. Mad props!
  24. Hard for me to decide here...but here I am siding with Squall. I both relate to them, and I really like them as characters story-wise. Even though Tidus is an Ace at Blitzball and famous for it; he wasn't trained to fight at an early age of five. Squall has been raised and trained in Balamb Garden for about twelve years; and he's also very good at it. Squall knows how to handle his image as a mercenary, when Tidus is still an eager newbie to combat. Squall is tangible in existence, when Tidus never existed at all in the beginning, except for being a memory of Zanarkand. Also there is a choice in FF10-2 to bring him back or's more likely Tidus will be absent in this fight. Note Squall's good attendence and grades. Anyways...we all know Squall's talent and prowess as one of the few gunblade specialists. In my opinion Tidus is more cooler than Squall reality-wise...Tidus is FAMOUS!

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Otens: I've either seen this one before or expected it. I'm pretty sure I've expected it though.

I don't seem to remember if this one happened, but I'm think it'll be a lot colser than it is now. People hate Tidus and FFX, but people aslo loathe FFVIII and Squall probably even more(Well, VIII more than X not Squall more than Tidus). --AnonyMan 04:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Otens: Though you have to admit, at least Squall has the advantage because he constantly was trained as a mercenary. I've still never understood why people never liked it though but I guess it was just a matter of opinion.
Time out. I don't care who's name it is in question, but I've never seen a name debate so intense that it can overshadow a Final Fantasy character in terms of interest. Unless we're talking about Mystic Quest, otherwise, name debates are infinitely more boring. The recent Aeris-Aerith debate reminded me of that. Besides, seeing as how it only ever appears in text, who cares how it is pronounced? Drake Clawfang 05:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Otens:Indeed. I could just rename those characters to how I see fit anyway.

Is it Seh-cil, or See-cil? Aeris or Aerith? Tee-dus or Tie-dus? I've got a better question: who cares anymore? Drake Clawfang 05:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Otens: Square-Enix when they took away being able to rename characters [Insert sad-face.]
VNTidus is neither Tee-dus or Tie-dus in Japanese version. His name was spelled Ti-da
Ya Otens. I fear what could happen when Final Fantasy IV DS is released. For all we know, all this time Rydia was actually just a mistranslation of Lydia or something. And if Square Enix is gonna try and rename my two favorite FF babes, I am gonna blow a fuse. Retcons piss me off. Get the story straight the first time! Drake Clawfang 05:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
It's highly unlikely that Rydia will be Lydia in the DS version. If they changed it, they would in the Advance version. OtOcon^_- 05:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

My aren't they the most hated heroes ever? One whiner and one emo. All you care about is hot babes. Meh... anyhow, noble hero stereotypes are so yesterday. So I guess I don't mind their existence. When I play FFX I didn't see Tidus whining, any proof? In the he was the one who break the tradition that about sacrificing summoners to defeat Sin. VN

That's not true, I care about much more than hot babes. But whenever I end up talking about Aeris or Rydia, my mine usually ends up there. As for the heroes, Squall was alright, and Leon in Kingdom Hearts kicked ass. Drake Clawfang 05:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Otens: People only called him a whiner because of Jecht an Auron. In the future I see a Final fantasy X Prequel! Let us hope not.
Let us hope so! FFX had the second worst cast of the Final Fantasy ever, beaten only by FFVIII. If you get rid of Kimarhi, Wakka, Tidus, and Rikku, things would have been fine. I can live with trading Lulu for Jecht, who was a much cooler character then his son could ever be (and his outfit made sense). Really it would be like playing the whole game with just Yuna (Braska), Tidus (Jecht), and Auron (Auron), who were pretty much the only characters I used anyway. Not to mention that Auron would play an even larger role in this game, not pussy Tidus to take the spotlight. You just need a Black Mage girl to even it all out. Hmmm... Edea, perhaps? =) --BlueHighwind 11:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm just glad Jecht is playable in Dissidia and I can rain down punishment upon Tidus and everyone else with Jecht's AWESOME SWORD! Fingers crossed for Final Aeon Transformation mode!--Muchomas35 13:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Dissidia looks ok. I bet people are just aching for Cloud to be revealed so his vs Match with Squall is a reality, when it doesn't matter. Zidane could beat them both. --AnonyMan 15:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Hmm having a game with Braska, Jecht and Auron isn't such a bad idea... better them than YRP right? =O I'm not rooting for FFX prequel but if they wanna do a story on Braska and his guardians better to an anime or movie on that. I sure would love to see it. But Jecht is still not your best example of a dad. Because of him his son is a whiner ;P --VN
Yeah, Laguna's cooler and a much better father who's just a bad for not being around at all, not really his fault. If he was Sqaull would have been like the best FF Main character. --AnonyMan 15:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I am playing X right now and I have to admit that I actually like Tidus more than I thought I would. His voice is annoying but, along with Auron and Rikku, he does not come of as naive like the others do.(at least so far) X has actually been an overall pleasant surprise for me, I find it really fun to play, I like the cast, and I love the Aquatic theme of the game. However I find it hard to vote against Squall in this situation. My only experience with VIII is a demo, but for about 6 years Squall and Cloud were the only two FF protoganists I knew. So I can not hate the guy, plus he was badass in Chocobo Racing. If he continues to dominate though I just may have to give a pity for Tidus.--Oranejo 17:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Squall isn't in Chocobo Racing. That's an FFVII thing, and Cloud rides the Chocobo in the race. --BlueHighwind 19:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I thought Cloud *was* the Chocobo in the race, or so my user quote says... Drake Clawfang 19:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
No, the actually game Chocobo Racing. I do not know what possesed me to get the game when I was younger (I think it came with a free Chocobo bank), but it was really fun.--Oranejo 19:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Whiner or not, he's like a comic relief throughout the game. He makes me laugh (in a good way)--VN
Tidus is just one of those characters with a really bad rap, mainly i think its because his voice acting is so high strung and irritating. but if you look at what he did, knowingly doing something when it would mean he wouldnt exist. he had heart, at least give him that. as i said in my vote, james arnold taylor shouldnt have had the part. if he was given a different voice and he used the same dialogue im pretty sure he wouldnt be anywhere near as annoying as he can be. Besides that, i always liked his narration throughout the game, gave it a real personal feel. but my vote still goes for squall because i understand why he acts the way he does and i connect with him more. Etch 3:04, 14 June 2008
yeah I completely understand why Squall acts that way. And I kinda agree with him when he says "I don't want anyone to talk about me in past tense" --VN

Who deleted my vote? Cloudofdarkness 15:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

False alarm, I may of done it. Cloudofdarkness 15:47, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Etch, I agree with you 100%. It was the voice acting that was the problem. Even though I did vote for him, I still think I was being a little hard on poor ol' Tidus with my comments. He was generally a good guy. Rydiaofmist

Strange I had no problem with his voice acting. James Arnold Taylor is pretty talented. --VN

Ya know how come we all seem to hate either the main character or the game itself. X was the first game I had played and it wasnt half bad. The only thing that I have against VIII was the graphics (the pixels are killing me!). We should really vote on what the best game was!.--User:Saraija Merinas

Am I seeing things, or did somebody up there call Squall a "butt"? Perhaps we've finally attracted that preschool market that all the wikis are dying for these days. And did that same guy praise Tidus for looking Asian? What's with the racist Japanese jingoism, man? Why would race even be a factor in how much you like a character? --BlueHighwind 22:52, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I think they were talking about the fact he sorta looks asian(in cutscenes) making sense because he's a character designed by a Japanese game company. Still that shouldn't matter when concerning fictional characters. --AnonyMan 23:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Otens: Besides, they were both drawn the same way by Amano, Feminine and with a dark attitude. Not complaining about it, but now that I think about it, he really doesn't draw many happy faces.
East-Asian to be exact. In case you didn't learn, Asian does not only focus on Japanese or the likes. Anyways, I've always thought Tidus looks like a Japanese with bleached hair. Well, they had no choice but to use Japanese as motion actors anyway, that's why most characters look Japanese in spite of being blonde and rosy. Balthier is a different case, I heard his motion actor is western. Oh did I notice someone saying that Squall was based on Gackt? Nah, I heard Squall was based on some Japanese model.VN
Yeah, I agree. I do not think Squall is based off of Gackt, Genesis is based off of Gackt. Also maybe the anon who listed Tidus looking Asian as a reason why he/she voted for him is because maybe that user is Asian. I did not really take it as a serious/main reason but rather an extra little incentive as to why he/she voted for him.--Oranejo 17:06, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, if that user is Asian, and they prefer Asians, wouldn't that make them a racist bastard? Round up the folk, boys, we need to get a lynch mob going. I suffer not racist bastards! --BlueHighwind 17:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Not really, maybe Tidus just got points in their book for being similar to them.--Oranejo 19:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Judging a person to be superior to another based upon race is racism. That's how it works. --BlueHighwind 19:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
You seem to be taking this too seriously. I do not recall the user saying Squall was an inferior being, or if a character who looks like they are Asian is superior. The user simply could have saw a little bit of themselves in Tidus, or maybe they think they look like Tidus. The user called Squall a butt for crying out loud, how serious do you think they really were?--Oranejo 20:12, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

ChaosEsperVII: Someone said that Squall is the most powerfull FF main character. Sorry, that title belongs to Cloud. Cloud has Omnislash. And he is a Sephiroth clone. I think SquareEnix makes it a point to keep him their most powerful hero. The 7th Chaos Esper forever has Cloud's back. Or Vincent could be the strongest main, even though Choas left him, he's still immortal because of Hojo's experiments. The 7th Chaos Esper forever has Vincent's back too.

Plot-wise those guys aren't the most powerful, just in their universe. Cloud's not the strongest Main either. Seriously, Zidane would manhandle his reject ass and Ultimecia would bitchslap Sephiroth acorss the space-time compressed continuum. I do agree about Squall not being that great, he's trained yes, but he's not really special. Gameplay-wise Renzokuken is overrated and not as good as Duel. --AnonyMan 13:44, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Bartz235We can settle all this in Dissidia, right? Can't Wait, but I agree with AnoyMan.
Sephiroth would totally END Ultimecia! A bad Edea stand-in couldn't beat Final Fantasy's greatest child!!! If Squall his idiots could do it, Sephiroth can do it and with style. --BlueHighwind 02:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
FF's greatest child. Zidane? Squall and his group got lucky to be able to get to her. Super powerful Sorcery+Time Compression>Sephiroth, and he got beat by a bunch of idiots and Cloud(like 3 times). Sucky is just an overhyped crappy villian who didn't learn. --AnonyMan 02:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Anonyman, don't take this the wrong way, but huh? WTF? Ultimecia compresses time! Hooray! It's just her and Sephiroth stuck together forever. How many times do you reckon he'll kill her before he gets bored? When it's down to a sorcereress git and the best video game villain ever (Joker is still the best villain period) with a gigantic sword, Ultimecia (that's her name right? She wasn't around long enough for me to catch it)is going to get her Edea-wannabee ass impaled. Cheers. --User:Slighter
Technically, with TC Suckaroth wouldn't exist to do anything. And Ganondorf is a cooler gaint sword wielding videogame villain. --AnonyMan 15:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Umm, Sephiroth would rape any game villain on any given day. Why? Because we don't know the extent of his/Jenova's powers. Did you see him fight Genesis and Angeal on top of the mako cannon in the simulation? Thats just him practicing. No fake villain Edea wannabe is going to beat him. And I bet SquareEnix will keep his power above everyone else because he's their villain mascot. Until another sequel comes out that reveals the extent of Jenova's power, then we won't know the extent of Sephiroth's abilities. Which brings The 7th Chaos Esper to his next point. The only reason Cloud keeps beating Sephiroth is because a) Sephiroth is arrogant and b) Cloud's willpower. Sephiroth gained control of Jenova because his will exceeded Jenova's instinct. Theoretically, since Cloud too possesses Jenova cell's if he exerts his will in a greater magnitude than Sephiroth's (which he has) then Cloud can tap into Jenova's power to a point where he can surpass Sephiroth in power. Therefore, it is quite possible that Cloud's will allows him to equal Sephiroth in terms of power up to a point. This point is where Sephiroth ceases to be arrogant and invoke the full scope of his power, since he was injected with Jenova cells at birth, he inherently possess more power than Cloud based on the factor that Sephiroth's Jenova cells have spent a longer time in his body. So if Sephiroth's present power>Zidane, then Cloud>Zidane. Oh yeah maybe I mentioned it before but CLOUD HAS OMNISLASH. IT DOES NOT GET BETTER THAN THAT... Screw omnislash version 5 bull crap. If you pit Cloud versus any main Character, his omnislash would destroy all of them, plain and simple. Also, Vincent has the power of a freaking weapon so his power>Zidane. But you all will probably disregard the words of The 7th Chaos Esper because people base their hatred for the two characters because apparently they're "emo". When you can give me a better reason for disliking the characters then I may reconsider my position. I ask this question: Are their anymore FFVII fans to hear my calls, or are we a dying breed? And yes BlueHighwind, that user is racist, hahaha. THE 7TH CHAOS ESPER HAS SPOKEN! (Unleashes special attack) ChaosEsperVII 2:48 PM June, 18 2008
Way to overestimate Sephiroth yes, devs pander to fans, there's plenty of game vilains who could stomp him(like...Ultimecia) Everyone underestimates Zidane. He's got Main character Iron willpower too, except he IS better than his destruciton bringer villain(who's definitely no slouch). He just never had a lame over-the-top showing. YWith Omnislashou can't really compare gameplay aspects and systems. Duel is still better,though. --AnonyMan 19:45, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not overestimating Sephiroth or Cloud. It's a fact that we don't know the full capabilities that Sephiroth possesses. And if Ultimecia can be beaten by 4 SeeDs, a gunman, and a rebel sorceress, you can bet that Sephiroth would destroy her. FF7's cast would rape any other FF cast in a fight anyday. Even the normal humans in the FF7 cast have tremendous power. And I'm not underplaying Zidane's power, he's strong as hell, but Cloud, well Cloud freaking knocked Bahamut to floor. Need The 7th Chaos Esper say more? ChaosEsperVII 6:31 PM June, 18 2008
Sephiroth got beat by a Grunt, a bar hostess, a one armed man, a dead girl and 4 creeps; just as unimpressive as VIII's lot, what's your point? So far none of Sephiroth's was no way near as much a threat as Utimecia was, so he must be God already. Since no other FF had a weird anime-style movie/sequels people think it's impossible 7's characters can be beat. Just beause other FF's casts didn't have as pretty of showingS doesn't mean their not stong as hell. To say 7's cast is the strongest is ridiculous. --AnonyMan 22:51, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
FFVII's party was far superior to FFVIII's. Materia actually works, compared to how fucking broken Junctioning is. On a character to character basis: Aeris beats Rinoa. Barret beats Zell. Cloud beats Squall. Vincent beats Irvine. Yuffie beats Selphie (but barely). And Cid Highwind beats Quintus. Tifa just beats them all to Hell. Cait Sith is a piece of garbage. However, Sephiroth just destroys Ultimecia. He has a personality. And is really really badass. Maybe he would have trouble with Edea, but not Ultimecia. No competition. --BlueHighwind 23:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Link pwns all of them. Sephiroth, Ultimecia, Zidane, all of them fall to Link's badassitude. OtOcon^_- 23:07, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
And stop fucking editing your comments so many fucking times. I would like to answer for once without an Edit Conflict. --23:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
VIII's mechanics aren't THAT much more broken and abusable than VII's. Aside from two genetic experiments, the rest of VII's cast isn't great. Rinoa would slaughter Aeris(or she could), and Zell would murder the rest(and he's plucky comic relief/badass). Sephiroth is as badass as diarrhea. Also, how the hell would Edea be more of a threat than Ultimecia, when she was no way near as strong after she lost control of her? --AnonyMan 23:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Its called just being better. In every way. FFVII wins, FFVIII loses. --BlueHighwind 23:29, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
...Right, gotcha...well, I disagree with that, but that's fine. And when did "More Story=Stronger villain"? Or is that still the whole VII>VIII thing? --AnonyMan 23:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Look each character is really good in their own right, but you can't deny the FF7 cast's power. The bar is set so high compared to the other games. Materia destroys junctioning anyday cuz you can use all the magic you want and just worry about MP when with junction, using magic makes the power of your character weaker. Rinoa beats Aeris? Aeris is the will of the planet. Seriously, how could she lose to a sorceress when she wields the might of billions of souls and the combined strength of the planet's magic? I admit Zell is really powerful (Armageddon Fist is the best limit combo, and he's my fav FF8 character, dont ask why I like the chicken wuss) but Barret would turn him to swiss cheese. He has gun-arm. What is not to like? Vincent, as I said before wields the power of a weapon plus more. Tifa is Tifa. She took a freaking Masamune swipe to the chest, enough said. Plus RedXIII would maul the hell out of people. Yuffie will do something useful. Cid would shit talk his foe into oblivion "Shut up and drink you're goddam tea. Or ain't my hospitality good enough for ya?" Sigh why wasnt he the same cursing SOB in the movie. Cid was way better comic relief than Zell. Plus Zell caused more problems than he solved. He's too hot headed. Cids hot headed but he's still cool about it. He's the jack of all trades. Cait Sith can overwhelm his opponents with a seemingly endless army of stuff toys. Really FF7's lot is as impressive as a bunch of kid students? FFAC doesn't account for much so I won't refer to it. If anything the movie did more harm to the game's reputation than good. But when it comes down to it: Cloud, Vincent, and Tifa with the materia system was the most broken team I ever built. I can compare Squall, Rinoa, and Zell to that team and they would get shredded. I can compare other FF teams and they would just die. Oh and I forgot to mention Sephiroth. This entire time he's been holding back plus he's continually thwarted by Aeris. He has better personality. Honestly they should put Edea in Dissidia, oh well. Ultimecia was the wrong decision for FF8. If I had to face a silver haired roxxor king, who can fight with one hand and not tire, with a sword that can only be wielded by himself (plus the guy has extraordinary abilities and magic usage even before he became a megalomaniac), andd he's actually controlling a shapeshifting alien from the dead (technically he is dead), versus a cliche witch (her character design was so bad, with accent and the weird haircut and flamboyant outfit, at least Edea had something gangster to wear) who is basically a reflection of myself (she had the same abilities as the characters: GF, Magic, Draw), I would think I'd stance a better chance against the Wicked Witch of the West than the Roxxor-King. Or perhaps we should bring this discussion into an actual fight: Sephiroth vs. Ultimecia, which would be one-sided, and FF7 cast vs. FF8, again one-sided. The 7th Chaos Esper must go to sleep.ChaosEsperVII 1:45 AM June, 19 2008
Bartz235 SHUT UP ALREADY FFVII FANBOY!!!'s just a game, you too Anonyman, forget it.
Thank you Bartz, I quite right needed that. Though it be harsh, The 7th Chaos Esper needs a wake up call every once in a while. ChaosEsperVII 9:57 AM June, 19 2008
Well, Bartz, when you're right, you're right. --AnonyMan 15:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Bartz235: No problem, though it was pretty harsh. :( Sorry.
No need for apologies. Lets just spread the love.... or not? ChaosEsperVII 3:26 PM June, 19 2008

Can't we just throw in the towel for Tidus already?! He's losing in the most lopsided fight I have seen in the DNC. Squall is just beating the blitzballer like a government mule! --Tex

Yumiko: Why does everyone hate Tidus? His voice actor for the english version wasn't that bad. I thought that FFX was one of the most beloved games of all time. I mean like a few years ago VII, VIII, and X were like being worshiped. I guess people in the US are kinda shallow...

User:Bartz235 Kinda shallow? We are shallow. Haha, we should just end this TA. This is the biggest loss I've ever seen and he lost to SQUALL!
Aleria I don't hate Tidus, I just like Squall. There's a difference ;)
I like how you didn't mention IX, and it's true, no one worshipped it. Not alot of people speak out for or against it. I guess US is pretty shallow. --AnonyMan 15:46, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Please, maybe years ago IX was ignored but in the present day IX has a lot of fans, especially within the Final Fantasy fanbase. It did not make a big splash in the gaming world that is why it was/is not talked about as much as the others. --Oranejo 19:21, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
It probably has more fans now and looks like a lot, but we're all just loud, some more than others about it. IX is still a little more than a speck in the Series compared to others, I'm not complaining sucks for those who lets its awesomeness go over their heads. --AnonyMan 20:28, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Why are there 3 user votes in the anonymous section? --ChiefKakashi 22:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm guessing that they really really want half their vote to count. I'm not going to fix it. --BlueHighwind 22:52, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I wrote mine under the Votes for Squall section, but it ended up there. It doesn't seem like I was the only it did that to. Maybe after fifty votes, it bugs a little? Hell if I know. Anyhow, I went ahead and fixed it. --Blykus 06:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Week 72: Freya v. Fran[edit source]

Freya Crescent character.jpg
46 v. 38
Battle of the anthropomorphic allies. There are plenty of long, wordy explanations that I might use to describe this fight, but it boils down to this: ratty poke-poke or bunny bow-bow?

Votes for Freya[edit source]

  1. Drake Clawfang - Because I know who she is. Fran, not so much.
  2. Faethin: Freya is the second best dragoon evar.
  3. Darkling692: Fran may look hotter but Freya has tons of personality and that's Fran's weak point
  4. Otens: My favorite dragoon and a favorite in Final fantasy IX. I like Fran, but Freya actually is limited so you know her potential.
  5. Blykus 23:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
  6. Oranejo: I choose ratty poke-poke, even though I prefer rabbits to rats.
  7. N/A 02:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  8. AnonyMan: Freya's another great character(also from IX) and generally cool. Fun to use gameplay-wise. And who didn't think the little dance ritual in Cleyra wasn't awesome? Fran is...not bad, she's quite simliar to Freya character-wise but other than a couple of scenes she's much more boring, the most boring of XII's Main bunch. Freya may not be as "easy on the eyes" as Fran to some but she doesn't look as dumb.
  9. Lockhart: Freya is one my favorite characters in the entire series. Plus she has one of the best theme songs. Go Freya!
  10. Andre666: Freya is pretty damn awesome and IX > XII any day.
  11. LinkSlySora: I find Freya to overall be better then Fran. Dragoons are awesome, and Freya has special abilities that are useful, and aren't considered magic. I also think IX is better then XII.
  12. Adam mcduck:Freya is a great character who I actually found useful, Fran was an OK-ish character but I found her useless in battle.
  13. Otherarrow: Better character from a better game.
  14. Chocobo Knight: Because three FFIX guys in a row would be awesome. Actually seriously, I like them both, but Freya slightly more...because of the whole Dragoon thing
  15. 8bit_BlackMage: I really wish I had the time to start another FFIX save file and play through with Freya, but oh well, real life. :) I like Burmecia's theme song too, and Dragoons as a whole are cool.
  16. Hyacynth Freya is hands down one of my favorite FF female characters ever, right below Celes. I wanted to like Fran, I really did, but I found her mostly devoid of personality. I guess that passes for "mysterious" but I'll take the river dancin', javelin' throwin', DRAGON'S CREST-usin' rat over the bunny in lingerie any day.
  17. User:Leiber_Mage: Currently replaying FFIX for the fourth time (can't say that about XII though) And I've loved Freya ever since the first playthrough. I find her a very useful character in battle if you develop them all equally, and her story of love and loss is memorable. Who cares if she's a rat? I liked Fran and did have her in my party even more than Balthier, but Freya shall always be one of my main gals, simply because of her spear, Sir Fratley and the times Jump has saved my ass. "To be forgotten is worse than death"
  18. User:Clvabl: Rock on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  19. Mr. Rojo: I think Freya was a better character than Fran, although at the end she was more like a secondary character but Fran was so lack of personality. Freya was also a great dragoon and very useful.
  20. BluSil: Even though she did become more of a secondary character after disc 1, the story she had was deep and added a better depth to the character and FFIX overall, i could play 12 without fran but 9 without Freya wouldn't feel right.
  21. Skoot85: I think Freya is cooler even though i hated FFIX because of gameplay. It had some of the best characters and one of the if not the best storylines. Freya is a better character.
  22. I hate Fran. OtOcon^_- 02:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  23. Rydiaofmist: I like them both about equally, so I'm just gonna go with Freya because she's losing.
  24. CidTheFirst: Has it not chanced upon all those voting for Fran that she has no real character? She left home and met Balthier; end. Freya is a roaming dragoon knight who abandonned her kingdom to seek out her lost love, who, when found, has lost all memory of her. She is just the better character.
  25. Saraija Merinas: I didnt know when I sugguested this it would be this close. Pokey-Pokey!!
  26. Yumino
  27. Chocolancer 22:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC): I was playing Final Fantasy XII one day as Fran alone when a friend dropped by and saw me play. She asked me how she could run on those high-heels, which explains why I vote for Freya...
  28. Gold: Dont do this people! FREYA FTW!!!
  29. VN: I notice most people vote Fran because she's 'hot'. This ain't a beauty contest, people. Grow up. Anyways, I do like both Freya and Fran... but Freya's quote "To be forgotten is worse than death." gave a huge impact to me. Although her love interest lost his memories, she didn't go emo/suicidal; instead she remains strong even till the end of the game. I see her as an inspiration. Fran is just witty, but she didn't have enough aura to move people.
  30. Crazyswordsman: She's Freya. And she doesn't sound like she has a bad Irish accent.
  31. TacticAngel: I like them both, but I think Freya is a lot deeper, and she's a dragoon... so...
  32. Genesis rhapsodos: I like them both and think they're both pretty awesome, but I think Freya was pretty cool as a dragoon, where as Fran the "weapons specialist" was only good with weapons if ou made her be.

Anonymous votes[edit source]

  1. IndridCold: Freya(Freja, vatever) is uber much kooler, Fran doesn't seem to have much of a personality...
  2. AlexY: Freya is much more developed than Fran. And she is a much more tragic character than Fran as well. Don't get me wrong, I love Fran as well, but Freya has that "special something". She wins with her charm, not with her looks (and that's always better :P ).
  3. Freya is hot!!! I mean just look at her!! Jking, but no Freya>>>>>>>>>>>Fran. Also IX>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>XII. TA go with Garnet vs Ashe, next. DO IT!!!!! Or put some IV characters and VI characters in fights, please!!!!!! Also to Brain vote #7, Fran and Balthier may have made XII, I won't argue with that, but look at XII. It's a pile of crap.
  4. Shes my favourite dragoon, i like fran as well there both 2 of my favourite characters, but i dont think Freya deserves to lose by as much as she is, im hoping for a tie lol
  5. to be forgotten is worse than death
  6. Rainacide - Freya, FTW. One of the more interesting dragoons in FF & plus she's a female. That's pimp.
  7. Freya's kinda cool. Has a bit of story and personality to her. Cool attacks, spear. Etcetera. Fran might be better looking, but Freya's just better.
  8. I prefer dragoons to archers and rats to bunnies. And Freya's one of my favourite characters from all FF. So it's decided :P.

Votes for Fran[edit source]

  1. BlueHighwind: Dragoon or not, Fran is stronger, and better looking. Rats are ugly. If Balthier sees her fit to make his #1 Bitch, then certainly then I have no reason to question.
  2. Shariii Freya makes my eyes cry.. Seriously, I dont like female characters in games as it is.. but by jeeves.. Plus Fran kicked some ass when she went psycho.
  3. Vito: Fran.
  4. Fran was actually a pretty interesting character, filled with Viera mystique. She also handled herself pretty well in battle and I love the scene when she freaks out. Not to mention the fact that Vieras are genetically designed to weal stilettos based on the structural makeup of their feet. (True Story) I never really cared for Freya much. I don't care if she is a dragoon, she's ugly and I just can't do ugly.--High Summoner 00:29, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  5. Tex: Fran, hands down.
  6. Big mamou: Mist God-Mode beats Trance.
  7. Fran has the best quotes of the series -Henryacores 01:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  8. Mateus_the_Corrupt: When it comes to FFXII characters, I should voted for Fran, she's hotter than the Sun or Lola Bunny.
  9. Drake:I never like Freya (last boss I fought with her was that ARK thing, because I had to. That was the only boss of Disc 3 that I fought using her, actually) and I love Fran's voice.
  10. :) HexedTourney
  11. Jammi568: Ditto BH. Both here and the comments section.
  12. AkwardNinja: Rats smell.....
  13. Leon5550:Fran kicks ass and shes THE strongest female character in FF12(storywise) and she's frikin hot 2
  14. Blackheart1991: Fran is cool and she is more important to the story.
  15. Aleria:
  16. Cloudofdarkness says: Fran wins, easily
  17. I just think rabbits are cuter. But Fran is like a sexy hare, which is even better than a bunny. --Muchomas35 13:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  18. Maverick King:Playboy bunny?
  19. Maverick Riot:Fran has the image. I liked Freya, but I just had a feeling that once she'd done her little bit in the game, they kind of dumped her and left her to be a background character. Even Quina got little moments here and there. But Freya? Not a lot. Plus Fran looks good. But it is a tough one... I've just always been angry they didn't give Freya enough story, else I probably would have been more torn...
  20. TheRedMagus: Fran was one of the few characters I liked in XII. I didn't like Freya so much, she faded into the background.
  21. Dark raven: Oh yes.
  22. Pikmin Master: Fran has versatility, both gameplay-wise and image-wise. Plus, if I had FFXII, I would use Fran all the time. I never really liked Freya and Fran is the only non-Hume playable character of FFXII.
  23. Actiondan: Fran's the man
  24. Mjka: Fran is just cool like that.
  25. SCM: :)
  26. UM: Fran. *sigh* Just listen to her say 'Oubliette'.
  27. Harlequin..: Fran all the way. Fran and Balthier were my favorite characters in FFXII. She's also one of the coolest characters out of all the FF games in my opinion.
  28. Zero (0): Bunny Bow-bow!
  29. Etch: cant say i liked either character that much but fran's the more chill of the 2. i mean, a rat, come on! besides vivi (for various reasons), most of the other main characters in ff9 make you feel like you're travelling with a band of misfits or something. you got a horny monkey boy, a rat, a little annoying girl with a horn on her head, a real joke of a monk, and whatever the hell quina is (he/she's the worst by far). the only other character that i would say is normal is garnet. so my vote goes to fran, balthier and basch who make ff12.
  30. Vanishing Star: I love Freya, she was one of my favorites and I can relate to her quote, "To be forgotten is worse than death." But, I'd have to choose Fran on this one. She's just overall cooler. Their personalities are just about the same, but, Fran shines through. She made FFXII great, along with Balthier and Ashe for me.
  31. AvaGirl: Fran, definitely, because she's a Viera, she's got a great accent, and she's with Balthier. Besides, she has some pretty sweet Quickenings.
  32. Sora G. Strife No explanation.
  33. Southgale WEll I know who Fran is and she is like OMFGSH (oh my !@#$ing god she's hot) and not everyone can us a bow and look as good as she dose. That and I think more people like bunnies than rats based on bunnies are so much cuter than rats anyday.
  34. ChiefKakashi 17:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  35. Yamiza Hmm, I know Fran better, and she's got a good design, so my vote goes for her.
  36. XXXI Harakon Fran is great. Her Quickenings are really effective and i used her all the way. Freya is not cool enough to get my vote. Fran owns. Also, if Fran has a gun, she is super-good.
  37. Gyromite: Freya is alright, but Fran is just awesome. She is the best FF female character behind Rikku, plus on the Leviathan, she went crazy and killed 3 Imperials in 5 seconds! Id like to see someone tell me that wasnt awesome.
  38. SuperSeph: The sexy bunny copilot easily wins the tussle. The only thing going for FReya is her sig.
  39. Zephyrus11: Her "The gods are toying with us" line made me laugh out loud, her accent is sexy, and shes the only non-human in the XII party.
  40. Zack fair 007:She is probaly my best character in ffxii right now. Damn, that walk is unbeatable!
  41. Mr. Kaizer: I'd vote for Freya if it weren't for a person known as Azasuke Wind and his artwork. Gotta say, besides the endless suckage, FFXII at least had one thing going for it. A hot piece of nut-brown rabbit ass. Yeah, I said it.

Anonymous votes[edit source]

  1. Definitely Fran. She's incredibly witty, hot, and downright AWESOME. Her wrath is also one thing you would NOT want to incur.
  2. I personally Don't like FF9, besides, what's so memorable about Freya?....At least Fran went berserk...
  3. She's just too pretty and has such a great voice. ^^
  4. Though choise for me :p but Fran looks like playboy bunny :)
  5. noob: Fran's a lot hotter!
  6. Brian: Fran and Balthier MADE FF12.
  7. Fran for sure. That walk. That body. Those ears!!!
  8. She's got legs that don't stop.
  9. Fran's a better fighter, better looking, etc.
  10. Contrary to Freya's 3rd anonymous vote, FFXII is not a pile of crap. The only people who could say that are the ones who never played it or got defeated one to many times due to whatever reasons. If you give Fran a bow or a sword or an axe and good magics, as well as a decent gambit set up, she can cause more destruction than her 3 imperals in 5 second rampage.
  11. Both cool characters, but Fran gets my vote.
  12. Personally, I like both characters. Freya was an assett to my IX team, and Fran was, and is (still playing it) apart of my XII team. However, I have to pick Fran based on a couple of reasons. 1) Looks-While Freya is a Dragoon, at the cost of be considered shallow, I have to go with the Final Fantasy Hottie Supreme, Fran. She is beautiful, as well as exotic. 2) I love Fran's voice. Her voice seems to be soft, with a eerily caribbean feel to it which is part of my heritage so, kudos. 3) Fran is the first main stream character that I have played with that uses a bow, and was effective at it. Plus, her armor fits her already dangerously curvy body. And 4) Simply put, while I like Freya, Fran is intergral to the story of FFXII, while Freya is simply in search of her husband, who I might add, is a badass. So, the vote ultimately goes to Fran.

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

I'm having a difficult time choosing who to vote for. On the one hand, Freya is a badass Dragon. On the other, Fran is a sexy Viera. Freya is a rat creature, and certainly hidious. And she's not to good in battle (Stiener and Zidane are both finer physical attackers). Yet Fran has no special ability, though she was tough as nails with the Formuhault. And Fran hangs with Balthier. And FFXII beats FFIX any day. I think I know who to vote for now. --BlueHighwind 21:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm guessing Freya takes the win in the ontest of who's the more popular Anthropomorphic animal female animal character who's name begins with "Fr". Fran's appearance is a bit ridiculous and Viera already look ridiculous too. Are were going for three in a row with FFIX characters? That'd be great --AnonyMan 22:38, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Let's not have any FFIX characters for a while after this. --BlueHighwind 22:43, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Awww, I was going to request a Rat Kid one after this xP. -Otens
I'm feeling Ashe v. Garnet next, or shall I have mercy. --TacticAngel 23:37, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Mercy, I'm tired of the IX characters too. And there's plenty of other good suggestions. Drake Clawfang 23:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Hopefully not another repeat match. I can't remember, has Cecil versus Ramza taken place? -Otens

Once again, many vote blindly for the hot one. Is anyone surprised by this? Drake Clawfang 14:24, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Nope, that's like the only thing she has over Freya. Even though her race isn't really ugly they don't have as many human features as Viera do, if Bermecians were all women then maybe they would. I didn't expect her to start trailing like this. Not against Fran at least. Also, Freya and Trance>>>Fran's berserker event that happened once. AnonyMan 14:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I personally count more than half a dozen votes voting for Fran because she's hot. I mean, come on, you can vote for a character who happens to be hot, but don't vote for a character just because she's hot. Drake Clawfang 15:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Seriously, it's not like this was a "Vote for who you think looks hotter". Oh, well can't do much about that. It's sucks Freya's getting treated like this so far. She's done better against better and more popular characters.AnonyMan 15:08, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Voting for characters based on appearance may not be the best reason, but I have seen some votes in other fights that have not exactly had stellar reasoning behind them either. I voted for Freya, but you have to admit she does sort of fade into the background as the game goes on, like TheRedMagus said.--Oranejo 17:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with that. Freya(as well as a few others) fade as the game goes on, but so does Fran except worse. Esepcailly so given XII's focus on it's Story than characters.AnonyMan 21:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Is is really so bad to have a game with a real plot? Really, FFXII was a step in the right direction for this series. No more lame hijinks and buffoonery like in FFX. You really FFX? The whole plot was just a party of dim-witted fools (except Auron) walking forward for about thirty hours, then you go to Sin, and walk forward for another two. Yawn. War, politics, and historical dramas are much more interesting. It had characters I could really sink my teeth into and sympathsize with. --BlueHighwind 21:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not badmouthing XII's plot, it was cool change. I do think it could have been better, considering how cool the begining was, after that it's just dull and drawn out alot of the time. All I was saying is when you're dull in a game not concentrating on said dull character(s) there's something wrong. And don't get me started on FFX.AnonyMan 22:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

No, really, you should all go fuck yourselves you disgusting perverts. --Alcaeus

Why Alcaeus?
Because your all saying that a Rabbit-woman, as in half Rabbit half human, is hot. That is disgusting and boarding on Zoophilia.Cheesewow 07:51, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
If Balthier has no problem with it, then neither do I. Are you going to question The Man? Are you? --BlueHighwind 14:03, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Balthier doesn't have a problem with it because he purposely picked a her as his partner becuase she's boring, so he'd get noticed more. --AnonyMan 00:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
She wasn't boring. Penelo was boring. Vaan was boring. "I want to be a Sky Pirate" - that's fucking boring. Fran was an interesting character. A person lost between a Hume society that sees her as alien and a xenophobic Viera society that conisiders her a traitor. Her relationship with Balthier was also worth examining. Professional, yet there's... something more. Scully and Mulder, if you will. --BlueHighwind 00:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
She has a bit of sotry around her she's still a dull character. Vaan has a good personality, you make it sound like he's a drab stoic or something, he's just ineffectual in the grand scheme really which is how he was designed. You got me on Penelo she has a decent persoanlity and her realtionship with Vaan is entertaining but that's all she has, she makes Vaan look a important by comparison. --AnonyMan 00:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Vaan's personality is about as far from "good" as you could ever get. Its offensively stupid and naive, with just a touch of pointless. --BlueHighwind 00:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
That's also apart of his connection of being the perspective character, going out into the world which he knows almost nothing about he's not that dumb, ignorant yes, but he's not mentally retarded. He's cheeferful and someone you could hang out, with he's like Vyse from Skies of Arcadia just without the significant impact. I'm glad he's there since he's my favorite character and wouldn't have played XII if he weren't. --AnonyMan 01:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
VAAN IS YOUR FAVORITE CHARACTER??!!!! My God, man!! My God! You relate to that character? You understand him? You see some of yourself inside him? I don't understand you. Vaan either really stupid, and I mean really stupid. You know, how Penelo practically forces herself on him, but yet he doesn't even realize she likes him. Or maybe he does notice, only he doesn't care for her and lets her continue chasing him just for the sick pleasure. Either way there is nothing to like in Vaan's character. Cheeful, maybe. But Balthier did a better job of keeping the game's storyline from taking itself too seriously. Vaan is the Jar Jar of FFXII. --BlueHighwind 01:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Uh, yes. Part of my personality I see in him, that's why he's my favorite character. He's also cool. He cares enough about Penelo to go and save her, and go along with everyone else almost solely on her decision to do so, not all friendships between male/females have to have romance in it. Balthier just has a bunch of overhyped lines people drool over play out terribly for some reason. He's cool but jeez, people need to shut the hell up like he's that amazing. Sad to say as well, I don't hate Jar Jar like most people, he's not my favorite SW character but I don't have a seething loathing for him like just about everyone else. --AnonyMan 01:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
You say that Fran is less relevant to the game than Vaan? The only relevant thing Vaan has is his dead brother Reks. Vaan story is completely dry: "I want to be a Sky Pirate and my Brother is dead, I hate Archadia". BH states it that Fran has to deal with society, plus has a unique relationship with the leading man, whose significance to FFXII is not overrated. Balthier has a story: "A freaking sky pirate actually taking the fight against an army". He steals the show from Ashe, who I thought would have a more central role, and he steals the show from Basch. Balthier is far from overrated. Also let us not forget that Fran is the source of wisdom in the group, she know the story behind everything. The 7th Chaos Esper ends his tantrum. --ChaosEsperVII
You misunderstand me. I never said anything about Fran's(or Balthier's) relvance to the story. Though she is just Balthier's sidekick like Penelo is Vaan's, and you're overestimating, I think she's among the half of characters who didn't matter as much in the general plot. I'm saying she wasn't very interesting personlity-wise and I never found Balthier to be that captivating, I don't think he stole the show and is just as interesting as Basch or Ashe(should have I hate her). I know Vaan's story "dries" up when Basch shows up though he does give Ashe(who is undoubtedly more important than he is)some moral direction. He also more or less got over his brother's murder around that time too, which is cool havinging it kept inside and swell up and alter his persoanlity. --AnonyMan 13:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Even so, Fran is necessary to the game because she adds "flavor". What I mean by that is that she enriches the FFXII world. She shows us what it's like to feel like both outcast and outsider to two different worlds: Hume and Viera. She shows us Viera familial relationship. She reveals to us her knowledge of Mist, Espers, and the history of Ivalice, which I think is quite substantial to the games plot. Also, because she may seem like Balthier's Chewbacca does not make her less important to the story. In fact, FFXII is alot like the original Star Wars trilogy, except told through the eyes of Han Solo. Fran may not contribute too much to the plot, but she brings alot to the entire game and its world as a whole. In summary, The 7th Chaos Esper says, "Fran matters." --ChaosEsperVII 12:11, 8 June 2008
I'm not arguing any validitiy to Fran's significane and role(which isn't all that fleshed out). She's an old walking encyclopedia, I know, only thing I'm saying is she is still rather lacking personality. Just Being enlightened doesn't make one either. Basch doesn't talk much either but he's not as dull. Which Final Fantasy XII were you playing? It's not told through the "Han", that's why Vaan's there it's told through his eyes, hence the he's Main perspective character. Don't let's Balthier's ego get to you, it funny though. --AnonyMan 16:54, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
The game may be told by Vaan's perspective but Balthier wields the reins. Vaan's just a backseat charlie. It's not that Balthier's ego gets to me, he has the right to say he's the leading man, because he does keep the story moving. Back to Fran, you can't say much about her personality because that's who she is. You can't just say they should have made her personality better because then you change her character. She's not there to be the star, that's Balthier's role (and he'll let you know that every chance he gets), she's there to offer insight and wisdom and to be hot. The 7th Chaos Esper decrees you a mighty opponent indeed. --ChaosEsperVII 15:42, 8 June 2008
Exactly, Vaan's a "Main" yet backseat character, he has no real Big Impact on the story but it's his point of view, that's how they wanted it. Fran's biggest angle is being "mysetrious", you can be mysterious and show some emotion I don't think she'd be any different since most of her lines were divulging information of something important. Just because you're not as big a mouth as your partner doesn't mean you barely have to show you exist, look at Penelo, she DFINEITELY doesn't do much, but she stands out at least even being Vaan's "partner". It's questionable about the "hot" thing viera look more wierd than anything, IMO. The AnonyMan does repesct you. --AnonyMan 20:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I laughed at one User's comment about Fran being the only Non-human Main like it's a big deal. FFIX's cast barely has any humans in it and is cooler most other games. And it's hard to call those you might consider "human". Then that just may be because of the whismical deisgn of the game.AnonyMan 23:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Anon Voter #9 for Fran - No she doesn't, I can see the end of her legs quite clearly. You should look harder. Drake Clawfang 22:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with alot of what Chaos is saying except for one thing: i'd say what steals the show in ffxii are the relationships between balthier and his dad, and basch and gabranth. maybe i need to read a little closer but nobody ever seems to mention the relationship that basch had with his brother. basch is kinda to me what vaan is to anonyman (as fucking stupid as that is). id say hes considered an outcast even more so than fran because the fact that everyone thought he killed the king and took it so far that they wanted him dead. im gonna go out on a limb and say that the story should have been told through his eyes, as they originally planned it, or balthiers eyes as a close second. either perspective would have easily outperformed vaan. square's biggest mistake in that game was making vaan the main perspective. vaan should've just been somebody they came across that decides to follow them because he wants to be a sky pirate. thats my two cents. Etch 13:36, 8 June 2008

I agree with you there, although I do like the idea of being the Main character and not be all the focus. They should have stuck with their original decision to make Basch the Main character instead of shoehorn Vaan in to appease certain demographics. Basch is pretty cool it would have worked. As long as he's still part of the cast, would have been fine. --AnonyMan 17:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Etch. I forgot about Basch and his brother. It is a main driving point in the story. Also, Balthier and his pops does come later but it is important. The 7th Chaos Esper appreciates your reasoning. I like Square Enix usage of Vaan as a main character but not the focus, however, I dislike Vaan as a character. They should have used Shia LaBeouf. The 7th Chaos Esper laughs at his own jests.ChaosEsperVII 20:00, 8 June 2008

Yumiko:I like them both so im not going to vote. Anyways I got the english version of XII finally and I just want to say "omg whats wrong with Balthier's voice" Its like so thick. I personally like his japanese seiyu better.

I agree with BlueHighwind (way back up top) I looked through all of the old 'fights' and most had FF IX characters. though i think the problem is most (like me) stsrted playing Final Fantasy with FFVII so as a result we dont know much about the past games. Plus there IS a reason Fran walks around with skimpy armour and heels. Its all for the guys. Oh well!-Saraija Merinas 15:55 6-9-08

This is probably the part in which I incur the wrath of everyone, but I am glad that Vaan was the main character. Before you begin lobbing hand grenades and torches, hear me out. Rabanastre is a huge city, comprised mostly of two socio-economic classes, the wealthy citizens and the poor low-towners. Vaan is nothing more than a pathetic street urchin with illusions of grandeur. He wants to be a sky pirate, but will never achieve his dream. He is poor and ignorant and does not have the knowledge to be able to make something of himself. In comes Balthier (my favorite character) and the rest of the crew. Do they need him? Absolutely not. They all have their own agendas, their own sense of worth and importance to the story. The ties that connect each of them together are very delicate. There were many times while playing the game where I thought it almost unbelievable that this group of characters banded together. Granted, they come in pairs, (Balthier/Fran, Ashe/Basch, Vaan/Penelo) but to me, each couple could just separate from the rest at any time. What makes Vaan important is he is a nobody, but for some reason, is allowed to tag along with the rest of the group despite his ridiculous blunders (remember when he inquired Fran about her age?), they teach him, indirectly of course, how to manage himself in the world. Like many people from low socio-economic backgrounds, he doesn't know how to act in different situations. (Think of the person at a fine dining restaurant who eats with their hands and doesn't know which fork to use) Ultimately, as they teach Vaan about the world, they teach us, the player, about their universe and it may be this ignorance that keeps the delicate tie from snapping.Also, if the main character were anyone but Vaan, it would be ridiculous that we didn't know their complete histories. If, for the sake of argument, we played as Basch, we must know from the beginning that it was actually his brother that killed the king. If we were not privy to this information, then I would feel personally let down and perhaps cheated. You can't see the world through the eyes of a character without being informed of major life incidents. On the same chord, if Zidane knew that he was the Angel of Death, he would be an unsuitable main character. It is due to the fact that he has no recollection, that he is able to function as our number one. And finally, sometimes it is necessary to have a main character that is ignorant, so that the lessons the other characters have to offer are more meaningful. If Vaan were more knowledgeable, there would be no point to teach him the ways of the world.Lastly, every character is given personality. One does not need to be loud and boisterous to be considered as having one. So yes, Fran does have a personality and a very strong one at that. She has lived long enough to know not to shove it in people's faces. Also, it is not the Viera way.--High Summoner 00:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Uh... No. Vaan still sucks. Nobody even bothered to talk to him throughout the game (he seemed to stick in the background most of time, so how do you play "through his eyes"?). Though I do want a prize for actually reading that massive brick of text. I'm sure I'll be the only one. --BlueHighwind 00:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Consider the prize a boost to your reading comprehension skills. BTW, you play through his eyes because you are not privy to the backgrounds of any of the other characters at the game's onset. You find out information as Vaan does. --High Summoner 01:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Vaan couldn't even understand what was going on. He was too much of an insignifigant little flee for that. Also, I learned tons more than Vaan did. Like for example, there are all those scenes in Archadia where Vaan is not present. I learned so much about Vayne and how he came to power. Vaan was not there. Its a third-person view, not a first person. Thank God too, because that would have ruined FFXII. --BlueHighwind 01:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Touche. I see your point, but it is not third person alone. Remember Vaan's little vignettes of opinion and the like. My point that I'd like to reiterate is that mostly, you learn as Vaan should. He may not necessarily indicate that he's picked up on the lessons of the masters, but that is mostly due to the fact that he does not possess valued cultural capital. He is a street urchin after all. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm actually not that fond of Vaan, but I am not foolish enough to state that he is unnecessary. Vaan is pretty stupid, but the game is making a statement about the poor or lower class members of society. Actually, Vaan really has no business traveling with the likes of Balthier. Yet, despite this, he does. And if Balthier can allow it, so can I.--High Summoner 01:31, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I consider it to be a Contrivance of the Plot. Much like how Cloud and co. kept Cait Sith around in FFVII whne there was no good reason to. --BlueHighwind 01:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Or how Cloud spent an entire disk traveling around sleeping beside two hot chicks instead of sleeping with them like I would have tried to do... Drake Clawfang 01:40, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Well that quote sounds familiar. Oh, I get it! Its from my Walkthrough: Final Fantasy VII/BlueHighwind/Part 7: "Now we know why we must follow Sephiroth all across the world. But even with the destruction of your hometown and all, Cloud seriously what's up with you? If I were in your shoes I be trying snag Tifa and Aeris in a 3-way (now there's an image), instead of chasing after Sephiroth. I guess we just have different priorities." --BlueHighwind 01:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
@Good Drake and Blue: ...Says the guys who have yet to do so with any girl. --ChiefKakashi 02:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
ah, the truculence of youth. My point, again, is that the game is making a commentary of both a political and socio-economic nature. Vaan is about as low class as you can get. Ashe, being a queen (though not exactly on the throne) is at the opposite end of the spectrum. Everyone else falls somewhere in between. Vaan is necessary to develop and explore the dynamic between social classes.--High Summoner 02:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
There are better characters who could have done so. Perhaps somebody with something to say about the difference of Social Classes. Vaan seemed to take it all in stride (he's is an idiot). Or maybe somebody who could have pointed out how Dalmasca seems to be much better off under Imperial Rule. Didn't Penelo's family die in a plague? Yeah, the old King was a crackercack ruler. --BlueHighwind 12:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, things that couldn't be dicier... If you're walking down the street and you see a bum, or a homeless person, you usually don't think, "hey, under all that sludge, he must be a great person!" I think the point, in Vaan's creation, was to portray the lower class as people who would not be well received, someone who people wouldn't like. So, if we get rid of Vaan, he must be replaced with someone equally as ignorant and insignificant. Oh, and all this social class stuff has to be "read between the lines" because it is a video game, after all.--High Summoner 19:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with HighSummoner about Vaan. I personally think he's not the best main character, but main character archtypes needs a bit of a change. You may prefer the typical noble and heroic stereotypes but if you see the same thing in every game it will get boring. I notice most of you hates the main protagonists, not only Vaan because he's not contributing much, but also Squall and Cloud who you guys call 'emo'. Even if I don't favour them, it is nice to see a depressed hero for a change. Back to Vaan, he can quit from the adventure anytime but he probably tags along as Balthier's apprentice. I personally wish to see more development between them (like Balthier teaching Vaan how to fly etc. I can only see that as 'behind the scenes' scene in fanfics). Vaan is an observer; he doesn't get involve in the important characters political discussion - yet he is watching from the sides to see how higher-ups handle things, which we may not be able to see. One more thing, i despise seeing you guys laugh at each other because their favourite character. So what? if another person likes a boring character, so be it.--VN

When you pit characters from two of the most despicable games in the series, nobody wins. Chocotard 00:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

How are FFIX and FFXII the most despicable games in the series? Niether one of those are FFVIII. Please, do explain. --BlueHighwind 01:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Wow. What's so wrong with VIII(or IX and XII for that matter)? It's not bad, it's defeinitely a good game for the series. It's got a few flaws but even the best FF games have them. I love FFIX to death, but I know it's not without flaws. --AnonyMan 02:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
See my user page for an elucidation of my disgust. Chocotard 22:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Week 71: Vivi v. Aeris[edit source]

Vivi Ornitier character.jpg
45½ to 28

Vivi Ornitier character.jpg
The most beloved Black Mage meets the most beloved White Mage. Is Vivi's magical potency unbeatable, or can the keeper of Holy fend off this stout mage?

Votes for Vivi[edit source]

  1. LegendxMakaveli: I would pic Vivi because he is one of the only characters I liked in FFIX also because black is my fav colour. But I do like FF7 more then FFIX.
  2. BlueHighwind: Its Vivi.
  3. MK: Vivi is a pimp isn't he? I don't like White Mages... or people who get killed midway through stories and don't get revived.
  4. Gyromite: Vivi is a black mage, he blows up stuff and can even cast 2 devestating spells in 1 turn. Aeris is a white mage, she heals people, and Great Gospel was really the only thing she could do to actually help you out, plus she is dead.
  5. AnonyMan: C'mon! Aeris has nadda on the Veevster. First off, he's more entertaining, has a cooler personality, has cooler comrades, is in the better game; and has a great hat. As for his Magic proficiency I don't care for either Blk/Wht, it depends on the operator. If he'd died during IX's story I'd actually care.
  6. VitoRyu: Aside from the fact that Vivi is OBVIOUSLY the better of the two, HE WON MAGICITE MADNESS!!!
  7. Mateus_the_Corrupt: You know, if Vivi were to beat Aeris out using Triple Cast, then he's the only Black Mage who never gives up. That's why I'm voting for him. He's my first ever, ever, ever, ever, ever best Black Mage on Earth!!
  8. Vivi would nuke your arse. HexedTourney
  9. Bluesilver: Aeris died, i don't care if i got her name wrong, she don't deserve it. Vivi can kill all, and he's young enough to get away with it!
  10. Super Sephiroth: Vivi was the best character in an already awesome game, Aeris was also rather good, but Vivi easily wins, even though VII is better than IX.
  11. Eirwen: Even though I like both their personalities, Vivi would obviously defeat her, leaving nothing left for Sephiroth to kill... again.
  12. Adam mcduck: I'd be lying if I said that Aeris was actually a good character.
  13. TheRedMagus: I've just always really hated Aeris. Plus, Vivi's a great black mage.
  14. actiondan: Vivi.. to be honest though.. don't think it would matter who this was.. so long as it's against Aerith.. theyre gonna win.. can't stand Aerith
  15. Big mamou: In terms of character development and motivation, Vivi is my favorite character in any FF game.
  16. CidTheFirst: Let's be rational here - Vivi never loses.
  17. Bartz235: Best Black Mage in the series vs Worst White Mage. Easiest decision yet.
  18. Hey Aeris, it's called DODGE ROLL! Learn to use it next time. Oh wait, you're dead! Vivi didn't die, he became a God. --Alcaeus
  19. ^No, Vivi didn't become a God...he always was a God, in my eyes! Heh, Vivi kicks ass. Always has. Always will. Nuff said. ~Chocobo Knight
  20. Maverick Riot: To be fair, as important as Aeris was, it kinda sucked the first time through when you raised her up as you played and then she snuffed it. Weak. Vivi was just pure power. He got me through battles that the other characters all KO'd over. Plus, he's cool looking.
  21. Pikmin Master: Actually, Vivi kinda DID die, but left a lot of kids. Not only is Vivi the obvious winner, my choice for Vivi is that Aeris (Aerith) can not actually use magic (She just had the White Materia at the time.). If the fight was between Vivi and Minwu, then I'll undoubtedly choose Minwu. Plus, I have a losing streak to undo.
  22. Materiasdraw: Vivi would own Aeris. Hello, Double Black VS Healing Wind. Who do you think would win?
  23. Arcanedude34: Crisis Core ruined Aerith for me.
  24. Master Yehudi: There is no character named Aeris. I've heard of some character called Aerith, but not Aeris. Also, Vivi is the shiite! He also won that silly tournament thingy you guys had a while back. Yes, that's it, I'm referring to this wiki as "you guys" now.
  25. Rydiaofmist: Eh, it's obvious who is going to win. I like them both, but come on, it's Vivi!
  26. Zero (0): VIVI!!!
  27. Chaltier:I'm playing FFIX right now and Vivi is so cool!!!!!!!XD
  28. Andre666: Well, it's Vivi; adorable and awesome, basically.
  30. Hyacynth: Vivi is easily one of the best (if not THE best) well-written and memorable characters in the Final Fantasy franchise. His story was touching without ever being maudlin, and he pushes through identity crises that otherwise cripple other heroes.
  31. SCM: We've already proven that Vivi always wins.
  32. Theentertainer: Vivi is by far the better characer. He's short, lovable, Classic Black Mage design, THE HAT!! I WANT THAT HAT! (pinty het, *giggles*) , Dead Ancients take a huge back seat to Flukes and Mistakes that become God like and never unuseful once during and entire game.
  33. Drake: It's Vivi.
  34. Darkling692: Poor dead girl, she has no chance against the great master Vivi.
  35. Falbub: Vivi's cute, and not a stereotype. I got nothing against Aeris, but I just like Vivi's character better.
  36. Etch: no-brainer. vivis arguably one of the best (if not the best) character in the series, and has a story and character development unparalleled by any of the other characters in his respectable game. in ff ix, vivi really takes the show and makes the game. not to mention hes the most lovable little character you can encounter in the series. i never thought much about aerith, she kind of bored me. imho shes overrated and if she didnt die then chances are alot of people would not pay her as much mind. her dialogue is nothing special and she doesnt stand out much in terms of character development, conflict, and backstory. and besides, vivis a black mage, which makes him that much funner of a character.
  37. Rabid Biscuit: Good god, Aeris is being slaughtered. Good. She deserves it. Because she phails.
  38. TSD: I don't need a reason to vote for Vivi.
  39. Lockhart: Even though I have new appreciation for Aerith due to Crisis Core, I just can't help but go with Vivi here.
  40. Myotis: First, Vivi's an old favorite of mine. Second, I'm not about to vote for someone who goes by 'normal is best'.
  41. Shariii: Vivi please. Not too keen on the Aerith.

Anonymous votes[edit source]

  1. You know it!
  2. Despite far preferring FFVII and thinking Aeris is a better character, Vivi would whoop Aeris with a fish in a fight. Strange analogy there.
  3. Black magic users wil win everytime. Plus Vivi has a better design.
  4. The only reason I vote for Vivi is because I dont like Aeris...There was another great main character that died before Aeris....he was Galuf...
  5. Vivi all the way. Black Mages are the shizzles.
  6. Rainacide - Vivi is a motherfuckin' pimp thug king. Not only does he look like a G'd up mage. He's prolly one of the more humorous & lovable black mages you will ever see around the FF series. Vivi may be the first one to die off after the end of FFIX but that sure beats Aeris. I don't think Aeris can beat ReflectX2 ;] Now can she?
  7. Vivi all the way.
  9. It's got to be the hat. That and he is the most innocent purveyors of destruction every.

Votes for Aeris[edit source]

  1. Drake Clawfang: Alright, it was actually not as difficult as I thought. Vivi kicks ass, but Aeris is my top VII character and ties with Terra for third favorite overall. So my vote lies with her, but if and when she snowballs towards the win I'll likely change my vote so Vivi can come close. For once I'm actually hoping for a tie...
  2. Chocolancer:Pity vote...Vivi wins all the time -_-"
  3. Chocotard: I'm going to go with futility on this one. FFIX just sucked. Chocotard 11:17, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
  4. Dark raven: I guess it's a pity vote.
  5. Masamune: I can't vote against Aeris after Crisis Core. Plus she was awesome in the original FFVII, anyway. I've got nothing against Vivi, but...
  6. Blykus 21:39, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
  7. Thunderkeg: It goes to show people don't think seriously about this before voting for Vivi, Aerith saves the planet with Holy, Vivi is a "contributing factor" As far as "Double Black vs Healing Wind" goes her other limits would own such as Seal Evil and Great Gospel. Aerith's limit break would activate first as Vivi's double black magic occurs like a regular cast.
  8. Yumino: White mages are best~
  9. Ultimateria: Both of these characters are my favorite from their games, but Aeris is my favorite female character of the series, while Vivi is only my third favorite male character of the series. Plus her theme music is my favorite song in the series, and her death is my favorite Final Fantasy memory.
  10. Kurakawa:Pity vote. Heh Heh
  11. Oath to Order 14:57, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
  12. Gendreavus: I don't even see how this is a contest. In the last five years, I've only ever come close to crying twice, once when Kamina was killed in Gurren Lagann, and when Aeris died. I even knew it was going to happen thanks to all the flash videos I saw before playing the game, but it still affected me. Vivi, while awesome in his own right, can't hold a candle to Aeris.
  13. RowdyCMoore I just don't see how someone who reminds me of Orko from He-Man can be as badass as every one says. Vote for Aeris.
  14. Oranejo: If Aeris was not losing so bad I would have voted for Vivi. One thing I do not get is how people call her overrated though. She managed to stop Meteor while being dead, what else does she have to do?
  15. ChiefKakashi: Aeris already died. Does she really need to die here too?
  16. RedMage: This was never really a contest....
  17. AkwardNinja: Its a lost cause, but i'm still gonna vote for her. i agree with rowdy on how he looks like orko........and i did not like orko at all
  18. I think that saving the world after death is pretty raw. I also was annoyed at how Vivi tripped every 3.5 seconds... just saying. --High Summoner 19:21, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
  19. Kenjutsukata1o1: Poor Aeris... No, Aeris wasn't strong. As far as practical use goes, she's not a top contender. But what she IS is a beautiful, inwardly strong character who has managed to make an impact in the world of video games in spite of the short time she had with us.
  20. Pfft...Aeris, no contest.
  21. Franimal86: My vote goes to Aeris!
  22. TacticAngel: I wasn't going to vote, but I think the Vivi supporters have given the little mage a black eye.

Anonymous votes[edit source]

  1. Say, "Great Gospel" is an ultimate white magic, used it to defeat weapons with single attack command, other than that, Aeris is also on TV~
  2. Um, hello! Vivi dies too! Aerith only frickin saves the world, more than once. She was actually a vital character.
  3. ...
  4. Aerith, the best female character in the final fantasy franchise!!! I don't dislike Vivi, but Aerith saved the world, that says it...
  5. I'd have to agree with the above. In terms of character and development Vivi is better, however Aerith summons Holy to destroy Meteor which in FFVII is the ultimate black magic. Besides Vivi died of natural causes which everybody knows sucks. Go out with a bang. How about Double Black Vs Great Gospel "Hmm i'm immune to physical and magical attacks", then she just smacks Vivi in the face with her pole.
  6. Hi everyone, and i think aeris is a great character and like, screw vivi ,ffvii was the best game, not ffix. and besides have you seen the ps3 technical demo??she is so friggin hot!!!
  7. Aeris's theme always breaks my heart when i hear it, screw her in all the remakes and add ons, in the game she was just ace in the original :) (p.s vivi died at the end too but mini vivis didn't make sense :S)
  8. vivi shouldn't really exsist
  9. noob: i wouldn't say that, Vivi was dang awesome, and it's a was hard choice, but then i'll have to go with Aeris because it was because of her that Final Fantasy VII got all the attention that it did. oh and because she was the "one that got away"--she's so dang hot! oh yeah, just remember that both of 'em died!
  10. No contest... Aeris wins by far. Vivi was cool and everything, but Aeris is sweeter and she has the better limit breaks, IMHO. ...Even if Aeris couldn't win, Cloud would come along and beat Vivi something silly for her.
  11. Um hello...Vivi does not have boobs and a hot bod...heck we do not even know what's his face like!!!!
  12. I like aeris because black magic is very,very evil. White magic is like for good.

Peanut Gallery[edit source]

Excuse me while I weep for having to make this decision...Drake Clawfang 02:17, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Alright, another great character from Final Fantasy IX is up. Thene again it's hard to find a character from the game who isn't. Can IX's characters go for another win in row? Here's hoping for it.AnonyMan 04:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Probably. I am kinda saddened by the way these last two fights have been going. I had an eight week long losing streak goin' here at the DNC (Democratic National Commitee), and was planning on keeping it up at least until June. --BlueHighwind 12:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I could have told you this wouldn't be close. Its very, very apparent that a whole lot of our members haven't played FFVII and precious few will admit openly to liking the game. Vivi is a character that everyone can admit to liking and he is associated with a game every bit as perceivably underrated as FFVII is perceivable overrated. Long story short, he is a champion for the pity a lot of people feel for FFIX on top of being a pretty cool cat in his own right. --TacticAngel 17:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
If this is a game vs. game issue, then I'll change my vote right now. FFVII destroys FFIX! I was under the impression that this was about the characters. --BlueHighwind 19:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Reading the comments on the Vivi side, for a lot of them, it is a game versus game issue. Its also interesting that they fault Aeris for dying, when, in reality it was what really helps separate FFVII most RPGs. --TacticAngel 23:39, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I never had any game trouble with Aeris dying. Its not about character level, but Materia equipped. Her Materia survives with all the AP intact, so it doesn't matter who equips it after her. Every character in that game levels up with the three characters in the party anyway, just at a slower pace. It really doesn't matter who you use, the only main difference is attack strength and Limit Breaks. Aeris can't attack very well at all, so she wasn't that strong a character. --BlueHighwind 01:45, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
I noticed that too, too many comments against Aeris dying. And yeah, it's character versus character, not game versus game. Drake Clawfang 00:26, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I'd also like to note that while Aeris died, she called upon the Lifestream to help fight Meteor and called down healing rain to cure Geostigma and kill Kadaj and his cronies, both after her death. So even beyond the grave Aeris is helping to save the world from Sesshiroth. And that's gotta count for something. Drake Clawfang 04:27, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, but that happened in Advent Children, which most people that hate Final Fantasy VII also hate, and which most people that love Final Fantasy VII also hate. Aeris is easily the fifth best character from VII, but Vivi is the best character of IX. He's Vivi! -- Drake
True that, DMD. I'm probably one of the few VII fans that found AC good. Again, I reiterate - It's a movie based on a video game, and regardless of its actual content, movies based on video games can only be so good. And for what it was, AC did a decent job of continuing the story. Drake Clawfang 18:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

It would appear that this battle is decidedly less heated. Also, that DO NOT ADD COMMENTS OR EDIT ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE!!! thing is there for a reason. Chocotard 11:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Anything with Vivi is going to be less heated. IX is probably my least favorite FF game so far with the fewest amount of memorable characters (for me), but Vivi ranks as one of my favorite characters out of all the FF's. There is just nothing to hate about him. --Oranejo 14:44, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

As much as Vivi pwns the ass of most FF characters, two FFIX characters in a row can be considered one-sided. --AuronKaizer 23:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC) It's never made clear whether or not Vivi dies in the end. -- Drake

If one more voter gives a vote for Vivi because Aeris dies, I will change my vote in protest. You all should be ashamed of your self. She was a beautiful, non-existant, fictional character and she deserves better. --BlueHighwind 01:28, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe then you'll be able to bring back your losing streak. :) --Alcaeus
Yes, I was quite proud of that, wasn't I? --BlueHighwind 02:11, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I know. You should change the vote if you really want to bring back that losing streak. It probably won't affect this fight at all. Right now, Aeris will be lucky if she manages to tie with Vivi. Edit: But would you really want to vote against Vivi just to bring back a losing streak? :D --Alcaeus

I'm a petty man, so I moved a vote placed above mine. For the first time in DNC history I cast my vote first and I wanna keep it as such. Sue me. BH, feel free to do the same so I feel less immature. Drake Clawfang 02:00, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

What's the harm? I did that all of the Edea vs. Lulu fight. It wasn't luck that I started out at one and ended at one. I can percieve difficultly if you get into a placement fight with another User, but I trust a Staff Member would be able to bow out gracefully to avoid pointless strife. --BlueHighwind 02:11, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Hm, and looking back it seems I took first vote last week with Locke. Meh, in that case I don't care where my vote is this time around. Drake Clawfang 02:13, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Getting pretty sick of these Aeris death excuses myself, although Vivi has a high vote count a lot of them are ludicrous and should be discounted, as memorable as people claim Vivi is every time i try to remember FFIX all i can think of is Zidane's constant jokes about Steiner. --Thunderkeg 23:42, 2 June (UTC)

Sorry, but you can't discount those votes. --Alcaeus
But I can! Hurray for abuse of power! --TacticAngel

Is it just me, or it FFVII always getting more anon. votes then its competitor. Cloudofdarkness

The last fight that featured a non-VII character vs a VII character, Cid vs Cid(XII), Cid from XII received one more anon vote. The Zack vs Cloud fight featured a lot of anon votes though.--Oranejo 16:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


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